The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Hour 2: The Justin Tucker Allegations

Episode Date: February 25, 2025

WARNING: This episode contains mentions of sexual assault or sexual violence. If you or a loved one has been the victim of sexual assault, you are not alone. Call the National Sexual Assault Hotline at 1-800-656-4673.  We are joined by Julie Scharper, Justin Fenton, and Brenna Smith, the Baltimore Banner reporters who broke the story about allegations of sexual misconduct against Ravens kicker Justin Tucker. They discuss the details of the allegations, the depth of their reporting, and the possible ramifications for Tucker that could come from this case. Plus, Greg Cote has to leave to get belly button surgery to fix his infamous umbilical hernia. We memorialize the nose on his stomach as Mike takes issue again with Gary Ferman, and we debut the newest version of the Confermaned sounder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I got to get out of this. Based on a true story. New season Mondays only on W. Stream live and on demand on Stack TV. This is the Don Leventor Show with the StuGuts Podcast. The Ravens have finally said something here. Spotcast. The Ravens have finally said something here. General Manager Eric DeCosta is calling the allegations against Justin Tucker concerning.

It has taken a minute to see what would happen here. And I've been a little confused that Justin Tucker at the moment is somebody who is working freely with some of the reporting that Julie Sharper, Justin Fenton, and Brenna Smith have done for the Baltimore Banner here. Justin Tucker is the Ravens kicker that was until recently the most accurate kicker in league history. He is currently facing allegations from 16 massage therapists across eight spas and wellness centers in the Baltimore area, two of which said that they banned him.

The reporters now are on with us. They've been doing this reporting at the Baltimore Banner for a while here. So let's start here with Julie. Can you just tell me, Julie, and thank you for joining us, and thank you for the work that you've been doing. Can you take us on the journey of where it is and how it is this story started? Sure. So, you know, people say a lot that the first six massage

therapists came forward, but it was really a matter of us finding them. It all started with Justin Fenton, our colleague getting a tip from a friend who had happened to overhear at two different environments, people talking about these rumors about Justin Tucker. We did a quick search of X and found that there were several posts about this going back a few years, which was intriguing.

I messaged one of the people who had put up one of those posts and was surprised when that person messaged me right back and said, yeah, someone I went to high school with had posted about this on Facebook a few years ago. I asked him to send me screenshots and he did. I contacted that woman and she wound up being the first massage therapist that we spoke to. We later put up a post in a group

for Maryland Massage Therapists. And through that post, we learned of many others who knew about these allegations secondhand. They were able to give us the locations of spas. They were able to give us names of people that they had heard about. And we were able to do additional reporting that led us to the first six massage therapists

who said that they had had these experiences with Justin Tucker. Also in that first story, we were able to confirm that two spas in the area had banned him. And once that first story came out, that our reporting led us to other massage therapists who had similar encounters that they reported. And also at that point others started coming forward and saying that they too had had these experiences with Tucker. So Brenna this is not just us this is not folks seeking you out necessarily there is reporting that needs to be done here in order to make a difficult thing like this happen right like this is it's journalism but it's also activism to

protect environments and strengthen numbers, correct? You know, I think how we look at this is that when we are able to, when you have such serious allegations, right, it's something that's going to take a lot of vetting and a lot of reporting to verify. So what we did as a team is each time we would have a woman who felt comfortable discussing her allegations with us, we would then go and corroborate her story with the spa owners, with coworkers she worked with at the time, with family members or partners from the time

to be able to make sure that all the details were aligning. And so I think that where our role is as journalists from being able to have such confirmation of that is it's not necessarily about activism for us. It's kind of a line that is not exactly where journalists walk. What it is is about being able to help vulnerable people tell their stories and be able to tell that in the most accurate and fair way possible. And I think that's really what our focus on in the story. We're not here to editorialize.

We're not here to put our own narrative on it. It's really about making sure we're telling the people who are brave enough to talk to us what they're saying in the most accurate and truthful way possible. Julie, to that extent, so Justin Tucker, because of the nature of the amount of vetting that has to be done on all of this, Justin Tucker is categorically denying all of this, but it seems where there are this many women with this many similar details, it almost seems impossible to believe that this can be categorically denied. Well, we've had two spa owners confirm to us that they had banned Justin Tucker from

their establishment. We had other spa owners corroborate accounts of their employees. And as Brenna was saying, we spoke to the 16 women and we corroborated all of their accounts with other people who they had worked with at the time, with colleagues, with friends. People had text messages going back years, social media posts. One of the individuals had actually contacted the Baltimore Sun about this many years ago, and an editor here who used to be at the Baltimore Sun,

remembered that person contacting a Sun reporter and sharing a similar account. There is a lot of documentation going back years and there's a lot of corroboration of these accounts. Going back to the documentation going back years I think you know that kind of includes some of these Twitter allegations that have been out there at especially ones from the time of the allegations. Is that does that lead you to believe that it's sort of,

it's difficult to imagine the Ravens really had no idea about any of this before the report came out? That would be purely speculative for us to say. I do feel comfortable saying that this was, this pattern of behavior, alleged pattern of behavior was an open secret among massage therapists and those who are friends with or close to people in the spa industry in Baltimore.

Justin, what's been the fallout? How much intimidation is, if any, around these women? Intimidation? I don't know we've heard of intimidation. I mean, certainly we got an unfriendly letter ahead of our reporting from a defamation law firm that Tucker had employed. He said that this was categorically false, that this was tabloid reporting, that he had never been banned from any spas. So, you know, I think now the NFL investigation is underway. They actually came to town last week and were speaking with people. And, you know, the Ravens, Eric

DeCosta, the Ravens GM, just said moments ago at the combine that he had met with Tucker and that he was going to keep that conversation between them. But they're waiting to see the outcome of this investigation. So Brenna, can you walk us through some of the details here? Because we're talking more broadly about allegations, but the details on this is a famous person. He is a kicker. This is a part of the body that you would be working on, that you would be in an intimate setting with women who could not do very much of anything about the power and celebrity

you have because they're supposed to be working on this region of the body. And then there's ejaculate allegedly on the table. And some of the details here that would explain what it is that these women are dealing with because you've got the accounts of 16 of them. Yeah, I mean, I think that the most broad overarching pattern across the allegations that we would see

is oftentimes these women were pretty young, pretty new massage therapists, sometimes in their first couple massages or their first couple months of working. And a common pattern that they would allege is that over a couple massages, there would be alleged behavior from Tucker that he, and how explicit can I get on this radio show? there would be alleged behavior from Tucker that he,

and how explicit can I get on this radio show? No, you can go ahead and explain what it is that's being alleged here. Well, I also want people to understand sort of the difficulty that these women are having in terms of being able to say all of this to people because of the power structure of this is famous kicker in intimate setting. Yeah. I think this might be a question that

truly would be best to answer, just because she, while we tagged team talking to the victims, she talked to the most of them. And not only that, but she also really took the lead and being so careful about how we wrote about this and was explicit with it. Is that OK if I punted to her? Yes, of course. Yes, of course. So Dan The massage therapist shared a variety of allegations with us

But there were some common themes and there were many things that various massage therapists said And we should say that most of the massage therapists did not know the others or perhaps knew one other colleague who had had an experience that they reported with Tucker. But these were not individuals who had known each other as a group before this happened. So the massage therapist said that Tucker would come in. He would generally ask for a massage in his inner thigh area, his groin, his lower abdomen. None of that they found particularly surprising because he's a kicker.

He's an athlete. And I should say that most of them were very excited to work on him. They routinely have provided massages for other pro athletes. We're talking about some of the nicest spas in the Baltimore area. They had worked on Orioles and Ravens before. So they were very excited to work on Tucker.

Most of them reported that Tucker had an erection for all or most of the massage, which they found highly unusual. They are taught in massage school that men do occasionally have an erection during a massage, particularly if one is working on an erogenous area, but they found it highly unusual that he had an erection for the duration of the massage. The massage therapist also reported that Tucker would move in certain ways to attempt to remove the sheet

so that he would fully expose himself. In some cases, he did in fact fully expose himself. In other cases, it was sort of a game of cat and mouse in which they felt like he would attempt to expose himself and then they would cover him up. And it would go on for the duration of the massage. Two of the women that we spoke to said that he in fact, touched them with his naked penis as he was moving. Several women also reported that he had his hands off of the massage table in

an unusual way and touched his their thighs with his fingers, brushed them. And several of the women also reported that when they returned to the massage room after Tucker had gotten dressed and left, they discovered a puddle of what they believe to be ejaculate on the massage table. Now, of course, as we've said, Tucker has denied all of these allegations and a very strongly worded statement and letter from his attorneys. But this is the general pattern of behavior that we've heard. There's also some details that we did not report until the

third story. And as I was listening to massage therapists recount their experiences, I was listening to see if they would include these details because we hadn't printed them in the first two stories. So, for example, people said that Tucker kept his eyes open throughout the massage and made eye contact with them, especially when he was attempting to expose himself. That was one thing they said. Most of the massage therapists, they found that unusual.

They also described him attempting to move the sheet with his erect penis, which they also said they found highly unusual. They also described him attempting to move the sheet with his erect penis, which they also said they found highly unusual. The women say that the incidents took place from 2012, Tucker's rookie season, with the Ravens to 2016. I guess I'll ask you, Julie, this question since you talked to the alleged victims, most of them. What was the damage done here psychologically? What were the difficulties involved with coming forward? What kind of reluctances did you have when you're trying to talk to people

about things that perhaps they might not wanna talk about? The massage therapist that I spoke to described a sort of mounting sense of panic during these massages. They were very aware that he was a famous, powerful, wealthy, and beloved by the Baltimore community. If you had told me in December that we would be working on this story, I would be shocked because, like most Baltimoreans, my only impression of Tucker had been that he was a very earnest,

creative, talented, sort of a beloved figure. So the massage therapist talked about this sense of shock that someone that they thought was so wholesome was engaging in this behavior. They felt very uncomfortable. They said they were very aware of the power differential. Many of them said that they reported the allegations to their bosses or supervisors or colleagues.

Others of them were scared and didn't say anything because they were worried they wouldn't be believed. For a lot of women, this was a difficult and painful, I wouldn't say secret because most of them had mentioned it to several people. Some of them had told over a dozen people over the years about these allegations. But it was something that was a really painful memory for them. And when these stories came out and they saw that others had had these experiences or others were reporting to have these same experiences, they felt a lot of emotion. People described breaking down in tears as they read these stories.

One woman told me that when the first story came out, she was flooded with text messages from friends who had known her own story, and they said, Hey, look, you're not the only one. She told me that she was out to lunch with her son when these text messages came in when that first story published, and she just broke down in tears in the restaurant and she eventually shared her own account with us, which was included in the third story. So there's a lot of pain, a lot of discomfort.

Some folks left a massage after this and it's something that they really carried with them over the years. If I could chime in for a second, Tucker's team did put forward a list of about, I think it was 16 people who had worked on him in more recent years, who he said would attest to the fact that they hadn't had any issues with him.

We were able to speak with some of them. They said that they had never had any issues, that he was nothing but professional. The Ravens, interestingly, some of the people they wanted us to contact were on the Ravens' staff, and the Ravens would not let us speak to them. But he also provided a statement from one of the people they wanted us to contact were on the Ravens staff and the Ravens would not let us speak to them But he also provided a statement from one of the spa owners saying that she had never had any issues So, you know, I want to make sure that we mentioned that as well. What are your thoughts of the team's reaction Justin?

My thoughts. I mean, I think that you know, it is an evolving situation I think that they you know, they're saying they want to see where the investigation goes. At the same time, there's a sentiment from the fans that they want to hear more from the team. And the team, I think, has spoken out about having a zero tolerance policy. They said that in relation to the Deshaun Watson allegations. So some people are saying, well, you have a situation here. How are you going to handle it? The response to that today at the Combine was that every situation is different and it's fluid and that they want to find out more. But there are some people in town who want them to act and you know I think that if the team were to cut him they have until mid-March to make that decision. They

could of course say something earlier as the Jets did with Aaron Rodgers but I think it's from their perspective it's a situation that's still playing out. For any of you what What are the possible? Eventualities here as you see them in addition to the NFL League investigation Might there be civil lawsuits and I'm also wondering given the amount of time that's lapsed are Criminal charges a possible directed to somebody because there are three of them there directed I said for any I can take that. All right, go ahead. Don't fall on a podcast, really good dad, thank you. Yeah, I mean, so we can start with the legal stuff first

and then go into the NFL investigation. But for the first story, we spoke with a number of legal experts just about what the realm of possibilities were. And they all pretty soundly said that because of the state's statute of limitations, both civilly and criminally, there was very little legal recourse for these women. And even if these allegations had come forward

within the statute of limitations, there's also, unfortunately, a lot of the gray areas around what exactly would be the charge for some of these alleged actions and stuff like that. Like it's not an easy thing to prosecute criminally or civilly, is what several people told us. But regarding the NFL investigation, I mean, the biggest precedent that we have with this is the Deshaun Watson case, which ultimately kind of resulted in initially a six-game ban and then was eventually led into an 11-game suspension and a $5 million fine of some sort that Deshaun Watson's lawyers worked out

with the NFL. So that is kind of the main precedent that we see right now. There does seem to be an overarching policy now of like when the allegations are serious enough, it would result in a six game ban. But obviously, Watson's case shows that that's fluid. So it really does remain to be seen about what the NFL investigators find and then from there with I guess likely with Tucker's team and his lawyers what negotiations negotiations they can go into to decide. That's interesting though Julie what you're saying there then is that the NFL would be in a position to be more legally rigorous and punitive than our legal system by leaps and bounds?

You know, yes, and it's also really interesting about how they go about this investigation process because most of the NFL's security team and the investigators that they have on this are former prosecutors in some way, they might be former legal experts, former FBI. So they really do hire people with strong backgrounds for this type of work. And then also when they go into the investigation in the Watson case, they also literally hired a former federal

judge that was jointly agreed upon between the Players Union and the NFL to be deciding what to do about this case. So, you know, they do genuinely go about it in this model that's similar to our court system, it seems. Have you, Justin, found yourself, or have any of you found yourself, but Justin first, blowback from Raven fans? Yeah, I mean I think that

there's been mixed reactions on say social media. You know, I think, you know, I've seen comments of the nature of sort of like, oh this is what happens during massages, which I think, you know, we've tried to address in our reporting that the people that Julie and Brenda spoke to said, I've been doing this for years, I've done hundreds of these. This has never happened before. But nonetheless, there's a certain stigma around these types of things, sort of expectations of what probably goes on. I'd never received a massage myself. I didn't really understand the mechanics

of the sheet that's put over somebody. I kind of assumed it was something small just to make the body available to be touched and massaged, but it's actually quite large. And so the understanding sort of how someone could maneuver themselves to expose themselves, you know, something that I don't know that everybody understands. But yeah, certainly. I mean, this is a, these are older allegations. These date back many years. I think there's a sentiment from some is sort of like, why is this coming up now? These people must want money. And like we spoke to earlier, he's he's really well liked. It's kind of interesting as a kicker, you know, not every city,

not every team's kicker is sort of one of the most popular, visible, beloved players. But that is his his his place here. You know, he's known for singing opera at the Basilica. He's in these funny commercials for a gas station that sells really good chicken tenders. And it's sort of a crazy thing that all of a sudden we're now discussing this.

It's coming off of a down season too. And we sort of have wondered from time to time, did this stuff surface now because he had a bad year? But nonetheless, it's out there now. It's kind of been out there in social media as we spoke about. And, you know, I think people are processing it in different ways. But I think that as the allegations have grown, I think we've seen sort of stronger condemnation of the notion of, you know, that this is too many at this point, you know, this is hard to deny.

Can I jump in for a second? Yes. You know, another thing that we, we, so Julie and I have heard back from many of the massage therapists who we spoke to about their reactions to, you know, as this news coming to light and as more and more alleged accounts are coming forward and something that they are, most of the women I spoke with said and I think also most of the women truly spoke with said, is that they're really bothered by this notion that people are saying, oh, well, they just want money. Why are they coming forward now?

Everyone I spoke with made it really clear, like, this isn't about money for them. They don't have legal recourse right now. They're coming forward because there is now like a critical mass for them to do it and to not just be the one person doing it, if that makes sense. And that we took the time as reporters to come and find them and the safety and numbers and the fact that we were willing to sit down and listen to them and take their accounts as credible

and as something that should be looked into is really what gave them the comfortability to come forward now. And I think that a lot of there has been backlash online. A lot of people are distressful of these claims. A lot of people are making a lot of accusations about, well, you know, like, what would you expect as a massage therapist and different things like that. And I think that's honestly been really painful for the women. And it's something that has made them,

I think, even more. Both confirms that they were really happy that they came forward as a group versus coming forward as like one individual at a time. I'd like to add to that. These are massage therapists who are highly trained. They are licensed by the state. They've gone through an extensive training process. They know all about anatomy and that if you have tension in this muscle, you need to work on this tendon. They really see themselves as body workers and healers.

We're not talking about some sort of shady massage parlor on the edge of town. We're talking about professional body workers working at high end spas and when wellness centers, and they find it really disturbing that there is a notion that because they work with people's bodies that it's in some way okay for people to act in this way. They all stressed that the alleged behavior by Tucker is highly unusual, and they found it highly disrespectful to their practice.

And, you know, and I'll say, unlike Justin, I really like massages and, you know, I like to get massages periodically when I have tension in my neck or my shoulders. And I'm a huge believer in the power of massage therapy to help you work through that. So I really understand where they're coming from when they say that they find this behavior or attitudes around it really disrespectful to their work. Thank you for the work and for the time, Julie, Justin and Brenna, you can check out more

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Greg you owe a fine from before because your phone went off and I don't want you to get out of here without paying the fine even though you've been complaining about things. So just pay the fine. My phone is off. Well no but from before. I know it's off now. You need to turn it back on. Greg's got to leave as well.

He's having some sort of belly button surgery. He has something here on his belly button. You going down under for it? That we've seen before. I feel like they're gonna put him under. What's gonna happen here with this belly button surgery? I have an umbilical hernia just above my navel, and it's pretty common, and it's a fairly routine surgery,

but I'm finally having it done. Is this the little belly button nub that we saw once on camera? On Freedom. I remember, yeah. How long have you had this? You know, most of my life. It's known to be benign. He got it checked out, it's benign, but now I guess just because it's there,

they're getting rid of it. Do you guys want to see it and say goodbye? It's almost bathing suit season. Do you want to say goodbye to it? I would love to say goodbye to it. Is it too late to write a eulogy for it? We can do that. It's not worth a eulogy.

So is this considered cosmetic? Yeah. Or is this a quality of life thing? It's not. It's more than cos. It is cosmetic, but it's more than that, because worst case scenario, my intestine could start coming out, and then it's like emergency surgery.

Well that's a bad situation. I'm glad we're waiting 40 years to get around to it. Your intestine could come out of your belly button? I'd actually like to see that. Yeah stand up let's take this thing for a walk. I don't think that Greg has any expertise about what he's presently headed into. Oh yeah it's a big lump. It looks like a nose. It does look like a human nose.

I kind of want to put some googly eyes over it. It does. Wait a minute. Can we draw some eyes? It looks like a nose. I'm not going to have eyes over my navel. That would be a nice little joke to play on the surgeons. They'd be like whoa. They'd appreciate that. What if we put like a little lipstick mouth underneath it? Yeah, a little smile. Yeah, I like that. All right, Greg's gotta go. Before you go, can I just get some rapid fire takes from you so that I could get the best of your final embers of material

for the work week so that we can go out with the fireworks show crescendo. It's crazy, though, that his organs can pop out of that. Like, if he sneezes too hard one day, it just outcomes like All the coughing he does. It's a lump. When I cough cough or sneeze I literally press down on it So that to make sure where it is. Yeah, the doctor says that's a smart thing McGillicuddy. Yeah, uh-huh What's the recovery time on this like you gonna be back next week or is this like a long?

It's outpatient surgery. Really? Yeah Fig we should play like a memorial song. Just in case? Are you gonna eulogize it? No, for the belly. No, for the belly. Is anyone going to, you're so wrong, Billy. He's gonna be fine.

He's gonna be fine. I mean, I guess at your age, it is always dicey whenever someone goes under. No, at any age, it's always dicey when anyone goes under. Yeah, but extra dicey when it's someone like him. So, anesthesia is always dangerous. It's always. Especially cosmetic surgery too. Yeah. Well, it's not referred to as cosmetic surgery. Are you getting a tuck or a lift or what? Like you ever say like, well, while I'm under.

Yeah. While you're down there. Put it on the poll please, Juju. Are chicken tenders something that can be delicious at a gas station? Fair thee well, benign belly button lump. It's a sad day. We hardly knew ye. It's a funeral dirge. You popped out to say hello during freedom. A lot of things happened during that. Odd doctor joined us.

Look, that was one of the best things MetalArk has ever made. That 4am segment of Greg Cody going to a wood panel house somewhere in Iowa for a doctor to give him a diagnosis over Zoom. No, Tupelo, Mississippi. Was it really that long ago? Man, it's been part of our lives for so long, we're gonna miss it. Not ready to say goodbye. But if I were to say goodbye,

I'd like to paint a funny little face on it. I strongly recommend to everyone listening on Netflix, Kings of Tupelo, the documentary. It is really great for that region of the country. Greg's gotta go, he is leaving, we will say goodbye to him. And the belly button. And the flap. Outie patient surgery.

One more take on your way out. I'd like to think at a real eulogy, Dan will also give a Netflix recommendation. Yeah, I know. And chicken nuggets. Mention Tupela. And put it on the poll, chicken tendies on a gas station. That's what I will be doing at his funeral,

is what I'll be doing. That kind of thing. There was a fine. Me too. Were you just thinking about chicken tendies at a gas station? I don't blame you if you were. No, because coming out of the interview we just did

in the middle of it, or toward the end of it, one of, I think it was, yeah, the reporter, the man, Justin, came out and said that he got wonderful chicken tenders in a gas station. It wasn't just because I was thinking, it just happened second. That's where he got out of that interview. Delicious tendies.

That is a tremendous video of Greg Cody's nose on his belly button, around his belly button. RIP. Two googly eyes above that. Some lipstick beneath it. A unibrow. Nice little surprise for the surgeon. I can't hear you anymore.

We can't hear you because you're away from the microphone. We know that you have to leave. Do you have any other thoughts on your way out? You were complaining about Venus Williams still playing tennis at 44 moments ago. Well, I'm torn on that. Look, she's 44, she's losing in the first round. I don't know whether that's a sad story or an inspiring story. I really am conflicted. Like part of me gives her credit for still playing because Serena just recently said how much she

misses tennis. So Venus is still hanging on but you know she is 44. I don't know how to... is that sad or is it inspiring? I'm honestly torn. I don't like to tell people how they should age if they love doing something. What difference does it make whether or not they finish in first place or seventh place if it's something that they love to do. That's partly right. I think that's partly true. But what's not true about it? Why are you laughing back there, Chris Cote? Because I believe in the last break,

you were telling my dad he should retire from writing. It's true. You caught him on that one. You did. Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah, but I'm... Right, but Dan, is Greg writing

for the Herald sad or inspiring? We have to determine that first. There you go. What I was saying of, it's funny that you guys should mention that because I was just saying that to him, but Greg was... Go ahead.

I thought I was out of here, sorry. Just go. The thing that we were talking about was him going trudging out to a Marlins game during the regular season, something he decidedly does not love to do. I was on your team, but it was just the next segment, you're like, I don't believe in telling people what they should do later in life.

I was, the last thing you had legitimately seen me do with your father was to tell him exactly what to do late Did Greg just physically slap his name Looks like Riley's tickling my dad's nose It really does he's picking his nose Chris and Charlie jumped on me the other day and I thought for a minute he had torn that open. Really?

That would have been a way to go. You had to push your spleen back inside? Yeah, pretty much. Classic J.C. Greg, you can leave, it's nice seeing you again. Nice bag too. Thank you for helping us during Operation Bloomin' Onion, Boomerang, whatever it is.

Hey, you should see the stuff that Furman's saying on his message board right now. It's sending me, it's sending me. Okay, so he's gonna be. He's accusing that the scoop came from a booster, I mean, no, Peter Ruiz did some great reporting on this for weeks, and he's saying that it was amateur to leak this out,

as opposed to what actually happened, which was following every journalistic protocol in the book. What's amateur is you not apologizing for saying a report is inaccurate when it was 100% accurate. Gary. Can you say you follow every journalistic protocol

in the book when you donate money to the school? Well, I also wasn't the person that was reporting this. I did help with the confirmation, but no, in terms of what Gary is referring to, the university and Jay Lucas all got a heads up that this was coming out. We were aware of the sensitivities and we were also aware that a slap dick was gonna report it.

Confirming. I can't believe. We actually got another nominee with the back room, was like, hey, we can do better than this. And Fuentes had to get involved He was right I'm not gonna lie I heard it. I was like that's what I meant. That's exactly what we needed That's a good job

That's why he's head of scouting for the cyclone And that's... CARD FALLING! Chris, the last time your dad was here and you were out, he was saying that the briefcase you got him could not possibly be a nice gift. It could not possibly be as expensive as it says it is on the internet. Michael got it for him though, it wasn't Chris. No, it was me and my wife. My brother would not spend that kind of money on a baggy candy. Well, where'd you get it?

Just us. I got it at Sawgrass Mall. We know it's Toomey. The expensive stores at Sawgrass Mall, the Toomey store. Was it like TJ Maxx or one of those? No. You were like in the, you had to pay full price? Yeah, yeah.

Or was it like, it's fine if it's sale. I buy things on sale all the time. I believe it was like three and change. Black Friday, three and change. Oh, so you got it for half off. Wow. There was some sort of sale on it. That's still a lot three and change. He was surprised There was a six hundred dollar bag

I want to go back for a second though Because I don't think we should just sort of casually ignore that perhaps yesterday during the beginning of the show People didn't know that we were talking about Gary Furman a lot of people didn't know A lot of people didn't know that. The former Miami Carat reporter. I still don't know who that is. Well, yes. And so the fact that Mike, at the end of the show, just went directly at Gary Furman without any context,

without any center, without any pivot whatsoever to what we were talking about. I get sent what that coward's sending a message board. It's like he's a teenager, and he's still with, like, taking pot shots. What kind of message board are we talking here? It's like a different one. I own one in Kane's Insight.

But just say you were wrong in taking out someone else's credibility. Confirmed! Like a fan chat site? Also, I believe Greg Cody's words were, when we told him it was an expensive bag, it can't be. That's right.

I thought it was. Well, if he thought it was from Michael, I believe him saying that. I thought it was, he did say Michael. I thought it was from your brother. The idea, Mike, that you continue to attack Gary Furman. I'm not attacking Gary Furman. I'm just responding to a bunch of attacks that I think are unfounded. He's the one that went at my company's credibility when this was well reported by one of our employees and Peter Ruiz.

Sound reporting he was on Jay Lucas's name for weeks. If he's upset that he came out there and put his reputation on the line by saying he was inaccurate and then immediately got embarrassed I can understand that, but capitulate. Not out there embarrassing you. Greg Cody did that. Confirm! Greg Cody did do that. This is why Gary Furman as a 60-year-old man is lurking around in message boards arguing

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