The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Hour 2: The Well Beautiful Jim Trotter

Episode Date: November 8, 2023

Jim Trotter joins the show to discuss his lawsuit against the NFL for racial discrimination. He shares the details of what went down with management, why he believes he did not have his contract renewed, the behind the scenes conversations and actions that led him to this lawsuit, details of team owner comments, and much more. Then, Dan is stuck on the fact that he's never felt sexy, and Lucy is headed to Washington, and it may be the fall of democracy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're listening to Giraffe King's Network. Metrolinx and cross-links are reminding everyone to be careful, as Eglinton Cross-Town LRT train testing is in progress. Please be alert, this trains can pass at any time on the tracks. Remember to follow all traffic signals. Be careful along our tracks and only make left turns where it's safe to do so. Be alert, be aware, and stay safe. This is the Dunlabor Tarshall with the StugatSpotCas! who got spot cast Jim trotter has been doing an outstanding job covering football for a long time he's an award-winning national columnist for the athletic he's a former reporter

for nfl media and you may know his name because a few months ago he sued the nfl for discriminatory and retaliatory practices. He asked the commissioner in public a couple of different times about the lack of diversity in the league office, in the coaching ranks, in the media, and then his contract wasn't renewed this past March. So Jim, thank you for joining us and just take us through where it is you think that this was an active wronging,

that you've done a job I would assume that for a long time has been something the n-f-l-h-thot was favorable and then all of a sudden they don't renew you and you don't think that's a coincidence no i'm first of that thanks for having me look this would be pretty simple if not for one major fact here in november i knew november of twenty twenty two i knew my contract was coming up in March of 23, and I knew that I had ruffled some feathers internally by asking these questions about hiring practices within the NFL, both within the newsroom as well as the coaching ranks. And so I said to my agent, can you reach out to them and find out where we stand because if they weren't going to renew my contract And I knew at that time I would need to look for employment elsewhere and what Sandy noon is the VP over over on air talent told my agent

Was that she could not see any reason. I wouldn't be brought back Everyone loved me. I had supporters in New York and LA and that there wouldn't shouldn't be any issue But it may come with a pay trend because they were reducing budget, but she could not envision any reason I wouldn't be back. And in fact, that's my agent. What were some of the things that I wanted to do next? And so that's November of 2022. Well, we get to the Super Bowl in February of 23. And I see Sandy before the commissioner's press conference and I tell her, you know, hey, I'm going to ask Roger about this issue again.

The same thing I asked him about last year and I could see the look on her face, but anyway, no problem. I go ahead and I ask the question and three weeks later I'm at the scouting combine and Sandy asked to meet with me and after 45 minutes to an hour, excuse me, a small talk, she then says to something that I had said, that's a great segue. I wanted to ask you, are you in alignment with the newsroom? And I knew exactly what she meant. And I said, no, I can't be in alignment with the newsroom that doesn't have black representation and she said that's what I thought that's what I thought she said well you know it's tough fighting corporate headwinds sometimes you have to compromise and then I recited three

examples of areas where I felt I had compromised you know and I said to her at that point but there's one thing I'm not going to compromise and that's's my integrity. And then I said, I want to be clear here, are you now saying you're not renewing my contract? And she said, I don't know. It's being discussed three weeks later, they call it my agent until my agent, they weren't renewing it. So I would ask, what changed between November of 2022

when we were told there was no reason to think my contract would not be renewed? And in fact, it may come with a pay trend because they're reducing budget and March of 2023. The only thing that transpired between then was me asking the commissioner about the lack of progress as it relates to diverse hiring. And then it was interesting after that press conference all of a sudden there were things that went on internally that will get into in the lawsuit that reflected a change in culture in terms of of how i was being treated in what

was going on i have some of the information from the lawsuit uh... terry pa gula the bills owner and jerry jones uh... the cowboys owner of denied uh... some of the things uh... that are uh... ledged in the lawsuit, but just take me through. So you ask this question at the press conference of Gidele and you get what feedback immediately? How do you learn that you have upset people and how do you go about learning that you are

now going to lose your job? You covered some of that, but what happened in the next couple of in the media aftermath of you asking the question what happened next uh... nothing because typically just like the year before nobody got back to me when i would ask these questions of the commissioner and in fact and the thing that that sort of troubling is that there are outsiders who think that this was all about asking a question of Roger go down in fact i've been pushing this issue for the last two There are outsiders who think that this was all about asking a question of Roger Goodell. In fact, I have been pushing this issue for the last two years internally because I'm

a guy who believes in the chain of command and I don't believe in going over people's heads. So I was addressing this at every level internally before I ever got to the commissioner. And in fact, I'll tell you a story. We are at the every summer the media group gets together in LA in June to talk about where the league is, where the coming season is going, things to focus on, how we are doing as a group, all those sorts of things. And so during that day and a half of meetings, there are breakout sessions.

And one of the breakout sessions is with on-air talent. And at this time, it was Mark Quinzel, who was the head of the media group. And so in that meeting Mark Quinzel says, you can ask me anything you want, it's off the record, I answer as honestly as I can, et cetera, et cetera. So I say to him, we can ask anything we want. Yes, you can. I said, okay. I said, Mark, I just saw you up on the stage in the big ballroom. Talk about the improvements that have been made in terms of diversity, equity, and inclusion. I said on that stage with you, we're three or four white men. I said there was no one who looked like me. I said in our newsroom,

we don't have one black manager. I said we don't have one full time black employee on the news desk. I said to when you patch yourself on the back and talk about the improvements and diversity equity inclusion, how am I to balance that with what I see? And so he said, well, we do have full-time black employee on the news desk and I said, no, we don't. And he said, yes, we do. He said, I walk through the newsroom every day.

I see these individuals and I said, Mark, we don't. And at that point, Hans Schroeder, who was an executive from New York, who oversees the media group, has seated there, and he tries to interject. And I say to Hans, no, Hans, I need an answer on this. And I said, Mark, I will drop this and never bring it up again if you just give me one name of a full-time black employee on the news desk.

And he pauses and he says, well, I can't think of it right now, but I'll get back to you. That was in June of 2022. He still is yet to get back to me with that name because he can't get back to me with that name because there wasn't anyone and isn't anyone. So when I say to you that I've been bringing these things up internally for two years and have been unable to get anyone to address this or talk about it, if people think I'm making this up, when we go to trial, it'll all come out. And I'm not going to say something that I can't prove and that I can't document. So from that standpoint, Dan, that's what I mean by this.

This was not some fly-by-night thing where I hadn't been pushing this issue. I felt this was an important issue from the standpoint that we as journalists cover a play of population in the NFL that is 60 to 70 percent black and how can you in a newsroom which is supposed to be reflective of the community that it covers say that you are doing that when you have no black managers, no black copy editors, and no full-time black employees on the news desk, I'm sorry. You can't say that and be genuine about it.

What do you want? Well, that's easy. You know, I've had people ask me, what does success look like in this lawsuit? For me, it looks like change, real change, quantifiable change, we're in that newsroom, we have black managers. We have black, black copyers. And I say, we, I still say it as if I'm there, I'm no longer there. But where that newsroom has black managers and has black copy editors and full-time black employees on the news desk so that when decisions are being made about how this

player population is covered, that there are people who share the same cultural experiences, the same life experiences, etc. who are at the table when those decisions are being made. It's not complicated. In fact, it's good business if the NFL would actually look at it that way instead of people trying to protect their own territory and putting out this image where the NFL continually says, diversity, equity, inclusion, or core principles. And yet I can go to your newsroom and say, not, that's not true.

Or I can go to the league office and say, why is it that of the 11th-top executives under Roger Gidell, only two are black? That doesn't sound like you're committed to diversity, equity, inclusion. And lastly, I would say this, if the NFL really believes that, then release your promotion

and retention data as it relates to the demographic groups within the NFL. And when you release that, which you have not done to this point, I think we will get a clear picture of just how committed you are to diversity, equity, and inclusion. I should tell the audience, Jim, You have done honorable pillar of journalism type of work, and you don't like to be the story. You've never been the story, and here you find yourself the story. How unpleasant and uncomfortable has this particular fight been for you? Yeah, it's a great question, Dan.

You're right. We were taught in J School that as reporters, you never want to be the story. But here's the thing, I'm 60 years old, I'm getting to the end of my career. When I received those awards this year from the Pro Football Riders of America and the National Association of Black Journalists, I was named Journalist of the Year, you start to think about legacy

and you start to think about, you know, what kind of impact you can have on this business in this game. And so for me, I remember coming into this business where there weren't people who looked like me in the sports department. There was only one place prior to me going to sports illustrated where there was another black person in the newsroom. When I got to the San Diego Union Tribune in 1989, I was told that I was the first black to ever be hired in the newsroom. When I got to the San Diego Union Tribune in 1989, I was told that I was the first black to ever be hired in the sports department there.

And during my 18 years there, there was never another one hired. And so what I am trying to do to some degree is make this better for the people who are coming behind me so that they don't have to experience some of the things that I experience. And so is it uncomfortable being in the spotlight on this issue? Of course it is. I would rather not be there. And in fact, I told Hans Trotter this after that media summit where I challenged Mark

Quincell, I'm sorry, and I met with Hans Trotter in the hallway after that session. And I said to him, I don't like asking these types of questions. I said, but I believe strongly that if the NFL is going to stand up and say the diversity, equity inclusion or core principles, that the NFL should walk that walk. And I said, I believe that there is a social contract between the NFL and the public. It's the most popular sports league in this country, if not the world, that it should be a beacon for the things that are

right and it should stand up for these things that it says. And I said, you all talk about diversity. I said, I am talking specifically about black people. I said, I feel it is disingenuous when you say diversity because you lump everyone into that pot including white women. I said I'm focused exclusively on black people because the wealth in this league is being made on the backs of black players. Never got a response from him. Hans Schroeder is a great villain's name

and what just rolled through here was utter shock at you saying that you were 60 years old. I want to go through this lawsuit and we will do that with the unbelievably well, beautiful, unbelievably beautiful 60-year-old Jim Trotter. Well said by me. Yes. It would be a tragedy if we were losing one person to drug overdose every day, even five, seven, or twelve people.

It would be unimaginable if fifteen families a day received news of a lost love one to overdose. But in Canada, we lose twenty people to overdose every single day. That's a crisis. At CAMH, we won't back down until there's no one left behind. Donate at CamH.ca to help us treat addiction and build hope. Don Lebertard! Stugots, if you give him the choice, you can have the very same thing one of two ways.

You can get it honestly or you can steal it. He'll always choose stealing it! Stugots! Well, it's the quicker path. I mean, it's just... This is the Don Lebertard show with. Stugats. Well, it's the quicker path. I mean, it's just, you know, VCC Don Limita show with this Stugats. I want to get to some of these lawsuit details, Stugats,

because you've seen these stories. They've been reported on Terry Pagula, the Bill's owner, alleged to have said to a reporter in 2020 in reference to player protests against racial and justice, quote, if the black players don't like it here, they should go back to Africa and see how bad it is. And the suit also claims that when you, Jim, asked Jerry Jones about the lack of black front office executives in 2020, he said, quote, if blacks feel some kind of way, they should

buy their own team and hire who they want to hire. Both of these owners have denied this, so what can you tell us because you're telling us you're not going to bring anything in front of a lawsuit that you cannot prove? I can tell you that both things are true. As far as the Terry Pagula situation, there were 40 plus people on that Zoom call when this reporter made that allegation. So that one's very easy to prove. I did not hear Terry Pagula say it nor am I lost to it.

Do I say that I heard Terry Pagula say it? What I say is that a reporter from the NFL media group alleged that Terry Pagula made this statement. And now the NFL has said it has done an investigation into this, right? And so if what this reporter alleges is not true, I find it interesting then that you are saying that your reporter made it up. And if your reporter made it up, then why is that reporter still on the air? Something doesn't quite jive there with me.

As to the Jerry Jones thing, I don't think anyone's going to be shocked that Jerry Jones would say something like that. If you know Jerry's history, if you know how he feels on certain things, if you know that he is the owner who said if a player takes a knee, he will no longer be a cowboy. It's pretty, pretty easy to understand that Jerry Jones would say something like this. But, Dan, I think it's important here. I know people focus on those things because they're sensational and whatnot. But what those things really do is speak to a larger culture within the NFL. And that's part of what this lawsuit is about.

I remember when I told my boss is that I wanted to tell that Jerry Jones story on the air. It was the day that John Grooton, it was either the day or the day after the John Grooton had resigned, and we were going on air to have a discussion about it. And I said, I want to talk about the larger culture of the NFL and how Black men are treated. And I said, I want to tell this story that Jerry Jones said to me. And all of a sudden I was told, well wait a minute, we need to talk about it.

And then my immediate boss said, you know if you say this publicly, it's going to blow up. And I said, of course I do. And he said, well, we need to kind of talk about it and get this in order. And then I was told not to talk about it on air. And so I was kind of upset about that, but I understood I'm not the person in charge. We all have to answer to someone. I said, but what I am going to do is go on the air and just talk about this culture within the NFL. And as I said that day, when I asked about John Groot and whatnot,

I said, I do not speak for Steve Weiss who who was seated next to me, nor do I speak for anyone else at the media group. I speak for myself. And I said, I am exhausted by the constant attacks on black people and black men in this league in particular. I said, for John Grootne to say what he said, to Bruce Allen, who I believe was a club president at that time. I don't remember the exact title because they changed.

I said, a club president at that time. I don't remember the exact title because they changed. I said a club president is one step below the owner. And so if John Grudenfeld comfortable using that kind of language, referring to a black man as having Michelin lips, I said that speaks to a culture within the NFL where this type of language and these types of viewpoints are accepted and I said that should not be accepted. And I said, that should not be accepted.

And I said, the fact that we go through the NFL's history where we have never had a black majority owner, where the NFL used race norming to decide settlements in the concussion case, where basically it was saying that it agreed that black people did not have the same cognitive abilities as white people. The fact that blacks aren't being hired as head coaches, the fact that they are not black barely represented within the league office at the highest levels, the fact that there

are no black managers in our newsroom, no copy editors, no full-time black news assistance, all of this speaks to a culture within the NFL. And so I'll tell you a personal story about why this is such an issue to me. So in 2018, when I got to the NFL, Steve, why should I went to the leaders and said, we'd like to start a podcast, and we'd like it to be from the perspective

of two black men covering the NFL. Well, they never said no, but they never said yes. And so it died on a vine. Now now fast forward to the summer of George Floyd Where he's murdered and all of a sudden these NFL executives within the media group come back to us and say hey remember that Podcast you guys still interested in doing it and so we knew what it was and initially I said to Steve I'm not interested in giving them cover in this way and we talked about it We said well we could do a lot of good with this. And so we went ahead and we did it.

So we're getting guests that I don't think they ever thought that we could get, right? Go down the list. We can talk owners are coming on the show. Top players, Patrick Mahol, Zlayer Fitzgerald, whoever, Steph Curry's coming on the show, Chuck D's coming on the show, Ben Crombs coming on, all these different people, head coaches, all of this.

Todd Bulls comes on the week of the Super Bowl when Tampa Bay is playing and whatnot. And so with six weeks left in that podcast, they came to us and said, hey, we've got a sponsor who wants to join your show or you guys okay with that. And we said, well, first off, who's a sponsor? And they said, well, it's into a turbo tax. So we're like, okay. And they said the sponsor would sponsor the show for the final six weeks. And I said, look, I don't know a lot about podcasts.

Can you tell me what a sponsor pays? And they said, well, this one will pay $250,000 for six weeks. And so we got off that call and Steve Wiesch, myself, and Thomas Warren, who's our producer, said, we should ask if we could get a bit of that because we're putting together the show. We're doing everything. We book our own guests, we do our own research, we edit our own show. The only thing the NFL does is take a link that we give them and put it up on a social

media site. So we said we should ask if we could get some sort of enumeration from this. So we asked to meet with the head of the person who's over the podcast group, right? We get on that Zoom call and all of a sudden there are like five or six people, none of whom look like us, all of whom are in management, two of whom are the top two people at the NFL media group. Mind you, we didn't ask to meet with any of these folks.

So now we're feeling like, I'm not going to speak for anyone else, I'm going to speak for myself. I'm feeling like we've just been ambushed. And we are told by David Jarenka, that who is one of the top managers at the NFL media group. We're not paying you for podcasts. We don't pay for podcasts. It's not happening.

I mean, and he's like sort of aggressive about it. And so I said to them, well, can you tell me what it cost you to put on a podcast? And initially, no one could give me the answer. And then finally, they came back. I think it was Mark Wentzown said, well, $10,000. And I'm thinking of my head, so it cost you $10,000 to put on a podcast. And we have a sponsor who's willing to pay

a quarter of a million dollars for six weeks. And yet we can't have any of that. And then David's drink assesses to me, Jim, you don't have the authority to go out and shop this podcast. And that's where I got a little myth and I said to him, David, I never once said I was shopping this podcast. And that's where I got a little myth and I said to him, David, I never once said I was shopping this podcast, what I said is people have come to me and ask me if they

can get our podcasts on their platform. And I said, I defy you. I challenge you to go out and find anyone who can ever say that I shot this podcast to them because you won't find them. So it ends the next day my supervisor calls me because now they're in, they want to be a makeup mode. Says, yeah, I just want to know how you're feeling and what not. I don't know why David has such a red ass on this and what not. And I'm like, I'm not talking about this

because it's not going to do any good. It's not going anywhere. And then David Jarenka sent out a message to the three of us, hey, I'd like to have a meeting with you guys. So we get on the call and he says, yeah, that really didn't end well, the way we wanted it. And I just wanted to kind of see if we could talk through it just the four of us and whatnot.

And we had already made up our minds. We weren't going to talk about it because it wasn't going to do any good. And so I said to him, you know, David, you put us in our place. I said, I understand where it is. And he's like, no, that wasn't the point. No one was trying to put you in your place and whatnot. And I said, it's all good. We're gonna take these last six weeks.

We're gonna be professional. We're gonna finish out, you know, the show and whatnot. And then what we find out subsequent to that, Dan, is that a release and an announcement is made that the NFL has sold its podcasts to I Heart Radio. And included in the release is our show. No one ever talked to us about this. And I said to Steve and Thomas, you guys can go forward with this if you want. I'm out. I'm not working for free for the NFL. It is not in my contract to do a podcast. We did it to help the NFL and from that standpoint, if they don't want to pay us for it, those days of working for free are over.

I'm not a part of it. And Stephen Thomas decided that they weren't going to do it as well. Jim, we have two minutes left here before we get out, but just to be clear, when you're going to your superior, saying, I want to quote Jerry Jones saying, if blacks feel some kind of way, they should buy their own team and hire who they want to hire, you're talking to white men and seeking their permission to say this, correct? One white man and one man of Pakistani descent. And they are telling you you cannot? Yes. Do not talk about it on the air. Until we have had a chance to discuss it.

All right, so macro, explain this part to me. You care about journalism, I care about journalism. Why should the NFL network care about journalism? Why should they care about you having a journalistic right to tell your story when they've got the conflict of interest of being the corporate brand of the NFL? Why should they respect your journalism in 90 seconds the way that we'd like them to respect your journalism? Look, my whole thing is just be true to who you are. If you say that we're an independent arm and that you're not influencing it, then let us be that. And if we're something else, then tell the public that. You can't have it both ways.

And so what I asked before I took the job is I said, how are we going to cover sensitive topics? And what I was told by Mark Huncel is, we will always cover the news. And I said, I'm good with that. As long as I know we cover the news, what I didn't understand what he meant was we will cover the sensitive news if no one else, I'm sorry if everyone else knows about it. If no one else knows about it and it's sensitive to the league office or to the owners, then we won't. And that's why you never saw a story about the alleged comments by Terry Pogula. It's why you never saw a story about Jerry Jones and it's why I was not allowed to report

on Demar Hamlin when I was told that the league was the one that told the teams they should warm up because the game was going to resume. I was told to stand down on that story as well. Jim thank you for the time and thank you for the fight sir. I don't know whether you knew you were going to lose your job or or whether you expected some of what came with it but I appreciate the work you're doing sir. I appreciate the work you're doing, sir. I appreciate you, Dan. Thank you for having me.

60, my ass. I mean, come on, man. At 60. 60, brother. No. 60. No. 60.

A young 60, though. A young 60. Uh, I wish I fell to young 60. Slay the holidays with Real Canadian Superstores PC Holiday Insiders report. Serve Appies under $16.00, like PC, Pellenta Fries, PC Cranberry, Bree Pace Rebites, and PC Eggplant Parmesan Esporia Tellet. Wow, only at your Super Holiday Store. Control a T-Rex at the Ontario Science Center.

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Harold, Harold, excuse me. Stu Gatz. Nick, thank you so much for being on with us. Really enjoy your work. Thanks for having me. Have a great day. Yeah, yeah. This is the Don Lebatard show with the Stugat. I have been leaking confidence since the halfway point of that Trotter interview when I stumbled into an exit ramp

trying to talk about how shocked I was that that man was 60 years old. And then I just blurted that he was beautiful out of nowhere. You're a well beautiful man. I don't know if you can I don't know if I want to relive that I'm telling you I'm still I've still got it on me I've still got it physically on me and I feel like all of you are looking at me right now And I'm wearing only the red underwear we've talked about too much on this show And you still wouldn't feel sexy. No, I would not.

Jam shame. It is. I feel bad for it. Well, I do too. What's what's going on? Can we eat your grief now? Let's examine. Let's examine. Let's let's examine why it is. Sorry. Are you? Yes. Are you? Because you're not. Because you're not concerned about you here because you're not crying a lot I'm concerned about you You're you're not you're not often because of you you're not Yeah, but you don't find yourself sexy. I mean that's when did you last feel sexy?

Right, I don't feel sexy That is not a thing that is not I don't have whatever confidence it is I meant some people in the audience must hear what I'm saying here. I do not, I think the rest of you are hiding in your maximum confidence sexiness as if you guys, like I can imagine, the amount of swagger that Stugat has wandering around his house and his underwear. I'm sure he feels desirable to all, but that is delusion. That is not sexy.

His delusion, I don't believe to be sexy. But let's examine this for a second. I feel like I'm sexy. Did you guys think that the answer to that question would be, yes, I feel sexy all the time. You should see the way that I... Yes, you're rich. Bingo.

I feel rich all the time. That's not a problem. If you could use your money to change one thing about you what would it be? I would make myself more forgiving with myself why man physically It would be sexy you always want to do the deep like thought shit just right physical Dan make yourself sexy one fake calves Like what are you talking about here? I Would I'd like the ability to dance with confidence because I believe that it's something that the sexy have. Good answer.

Good answer. That's a confidence thing, Dan. You can dance well. Just do it. Or you can pay for lessons. Dance lessons. Yeah, you can go to dance lessons. That's something you can be taught.

Tony, you say that with such confidence and last time I had that conversation was with an in his prime Dion Sanders in a locker room, in a mustard colored suit telling me, yeah, Dan, you could wear this too. You could. No, I could not. You could. You could. Tony, lend him some confidence, because you have too much. Yeah.

Too much. What does that supposed to mean? I was hearing the whole sexy, not sexy thing out there, and I was like, guys, this is embarrassing. Everybody's sexy, like Jess said, everybody has it within themselves to go out and be sexy. La pinté perfecté, poppy, rico, that's the thing. You don't have that, you gotta have that. When you go out, your dress stuck to the nine,

you gotta lean in shirt on you, the linen pants, oh yeah, toy, be fecal. And it's an attitude, I can't dispute what you're saying. What percentage, let's just out of curiosity because I believe that I work in an industry that is very insecure. 69%. What percentage?

You get it? No, explain it to me, still got it. 69. Yeah, how does that work? Well, you know. No, I don't. No, explain it to me. It's the sex number. I'm gonna be honest with you. I'm gonna be honest with you. I'm gonna be honest with you. I'm gonna be honest with you. I'm gonna be honest with you.

I'm gonna be honest with you. I'm gonna be honest with you. I'm gonna be honest with you. I'm gonna be honest with you. I'm gonna be honest with you. I'm gonna be honest with you. I'm gonna be honest with you. I'm gonna be honest with you. I'm gonna be honest with you. unbelievably well Unbelievable beautiful 60-year-old Jim Trotter well said by me

We will do that with the unbelievably well Beautiful, what are you going for there Dan? Like you were going well Well-aged well-grouped well-aged wherever you're going. I was going well maintained, but I realized that wasn't a way to describe a human being. Well, beautiful. Well, it's beautiful. So that gap maintained almost came out of that. That is what came out and I didn't feel very confident and in the middle of it, incidentally. The way that started was the first shock I saw in the middle of it incidentally. The way that

started was the first shock I saw in the other room at Jim Trotter saying he was 60 and evidently Jessica's got a weakness here. She can't tell how old people are because she thought Chris Russo was in his 40s and she thought Jim. No, I thought you guys were in your 60s. Somebody sent me a picture today. I've got to send this to you. Video team, get this up. It is a photograph of Edith and Archie of all in the family.

Oh, Jesus. That a piano. This is good though. What is this though? I promise you, it's having heard of it. I promise you that this is good enough. Just find it for me. I was showing Mike during the break.

It's from all in the family. And it was at the time in the 70s, the number one television show in America. And Edith and Archie are at a piano. And it is showing you their photographs and their age at the time. And Carol O'Connor is 48. Archie in the photograph. And Carol O'Connor is 48, Archie in the photograph,

and Edith is 44. Wait, but wait until they get this up and put it on the screen here. So you see who is 48 and 44, but Jessica was the cue that I got. She was more shocked than anyone, the gym trotter was 60. I was planning shocked.

I did not think he was 60. I didn't think he was older than me. I've been following his career for a while while and I definitely didn't expect him to be the age of my parents. But then again, when I found out Stugots was like 39, it sent me into a tailspin for years. I will get that up on the screen in a second, but Lucy, have the listeners come through and told you where it is sent you to where? You had four choices on, look at that, look at that photo right there, 48-year-old, Carole O'Connor, that he's 48 there, that's younger than Stugat, that is younger than me, that is younger than Jim Trotter. People just age differently now, it's like when you see the pictures of the like 30-year-old

quarterbacks from the 1950s that look like they're cigarette smoking 75-year-old men with beards and no hair. Lucy, where is the audience sending you? We're going to Seattle. I'm so excited. So we're going to go to Washington, Utah on Saturday. If anyone's sale gates, we're trying to go sale gating, which is, yeah,

they'll tailgate on the water on a boat. I might have a plug. I might not. So it's nice to have a backup option. So if anybody's sale gates, let me know. And then the next day we're going to try to go to the Seahawks Commanders game. And then on Monday, I really like grunge music. So I'm going to go see some of the grunge spots.

That's not for work. That's just for me to have fun. I'm really excited for that. And maybe if I have time, I'll go see the space needle too. It's over. The space needle's overrated. Ah, Tuesday I have to go back. Are you gonna go to that gum wall? Put gum on the wall? Oh heck yeah. So grammable. Am I right? I want to take all I'll film some of it and put it on social so I can expense everything from that day.

Thank you, Sugas, for teaching me how to do that. I'm really excited. I'm really, really pumped. It'll be fun. Salegating is just tailgating on a boat. That's all it is, correct? Sounds so fun. Yes.

But apparently it's like not a thing. You could just like hop on a boat and go do. You have to like know somebody and I sort of know somebody. Is it like around here where it's like a sand bar? I have no idea. I don't know. No, I can answer that for you. I think it's like in the bay yeah or the harbor I will find out together where did you want to go and how strong was the audience in pushing you

toward Washington Washington this is the best Washington team I've seen they seem to be offensively overwhelming I know I wonder how many people care about this but at one time Stugots Van Dyke Tyler Van Dyke was gonna head to Alabama and if he had Penex was going to be in Miami like that's how that was going to work. Penex is gonna be at the Heisman ceremony. That team is offensively exceptional. He loves throwing the ball deep. This is an enormous game in the history of the program. They haven't had many bigger than this. You're walking into potentially an electric atmosphere and perhaps the most important game of

the weekend, given that Washington is still outside the top four, correct? Washington. But I think everyone understands that's a good football team. And it's obviously an overwhelming good offensive team. Yeah, it's a really great football team. Washington has looked kind of bad the last few weeks, though. So that was part of the appeal of going to this game. You taught us a tough team. So we could see an upset here, but Washington, their offense is absolutely electric.

I've heard amazing things about their stadium. This was my top choice. I think Eugene was my second. And then Tallahassee and Miami, that was the bottom option. A lot of people voted for it, and I was like, I'm just not gonna listen to you guys. I don't trust you.

Oh, yeah. That's a democracy. All right, you saw it. All right, you saw it. I did two polls. I did one on Twitter and one on Instagram. And the Twitter Washington won, the Instagram Miami won, but that's because I think I live in Miami,

so I'm like, geotagged for Miami on Instagram. So I think those results were skewed. You don't want to be around Mike Ryan when he leaves that stadium on Saturday. So I don't blame you for that. And also Washington's got the overhang. It gets loud in there. I'm so excited.

I'm really pumped. Why was Michigan Penn State not an option? Because I didn't want to go back to Happy Valley. Why? You know what ever it does. Why are you having polls if you're just not going to abide by the results. No, I am. I did. I walked through the rules. Like the bad thing at the zoo.

Hold up. There were there were two polls and one of them was Washington. You taught that one, the Twitter poll and Twitter is more college football. Like I think less just general Miami where I think my inscrime is really Miami. But do you get to hold numbers and just add up all the numbers? That would have been a really great idea, but we already booked the flight to Washington. No, Twitter just chose the game you wanted to go to. No, I didn't tell Twitter what I was going to do.

I didn't, I didn't lead anyone. Right. What does TikTok say? Yeah, we should ask TikTok, but I'm happy with the decision, and we get to go to two games, double the content, and I get to go see Grunge Pl places. You can be happy with the result and it can also be the fall of democracy around our show. There were two polls I picked between one of them. November 6th. There were two polls. Why were we doing two polls on where it is you were

to go and then we asked the audience to get involved and they did get involved. So here's how this happened. Juju was traveling from Germany on Monday so it didn't get on the official Levitard show poll, which honestly I'm glad those Miami fans were to send me to Tallahassee and I don't really want to go there. And so that I put one on my Instagram and one on my Twitter, Twitter I have a larger following. So a larger group of people

and they chose Utah Washington. You didn't want to go to Tallahassee, but that had a potential to be a drunken, messy, good content circus farm. I think so too, but every college is sort of like that. And I've heard really great things about the Washington tailgate scene.

We would get two videos out of this. I really want to go sailgating, and I'm very excited. It'll be a much better game and grunge She's committed to making so much content. It's all I do you do do a lot of that It's you keep the the the social accounts on the weekend are vibrant because you're running around on every field in tears I think I'll definitely cry. It's super strange. Is it not? Is it? Is it not unusual that you keep getting so moved by Saturdays that you're sobbing? By bedlam. I'm sorry for being happy. Sorry for being grateful and enjoying the moment. I cry a lot. It's not that weird.

I cry all the time. It's awesome. I feel great.