The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting

Episode Date: December 13, 2024

Today's Cast: Dan, Stugotz, David, Hawk, Roy, Mike, Tony, Jess. It's a packed house this Friday morning and we begin by talking about that stinker of a Thursday Night Football game last night between the San Francisco 49ers and Los Angeles Rams. The top story was not the football game, but rather 49ers linebacker, De'Vondre Campbell, apparently quitting in the middle of the game. We discuss the reaction from Kyle Shanahan, George Kittle and Charvarius Ward in the postgame press conference and whether or not Campbell is likely to ever play again in the NFL. Andrew Hawkins shares that he sometimes considered doing the same and brings us inside the mind of a football player in that moment. Plus, Jessica cannot wait for Bowl Season to start on Saturday and Hawk tells us about his experience playing in bowl games which included a designer hammer and a portable DVD player. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to Giraffe King's Network. Your teen requested a ride, but this time not from you. It's through their Uber Teen account. It's an Uber account that allows your teen to request a ride under your supervision with live trip tracking and highly rated drivers. Add your team to your Uber account today. This is the Don Leventor Show with the StuGuts Podcast. Damn, I miss Thursday Night Football when both teams have a week's worth of rest. That's what happens occasionally on Thursday night football

and otherwise really boring game. We did get a national talking point out of the game and we have an interesting cast of characters. To walk you through that, Dan's a little late, so pinch hitting for him is Dan. Andrew Hawkins, a former NFL player, a former player rep and a former team president and David Sampson.

These ingredients have never been together before and we get to talk about a player quitting on his team. Did you say Dan is pinch hitting for Dan? I'm sorry, Sue Gotts is pinch hitting for Dan. Working the line up. Sorry, late scratch. So Sue Gotts, you're not a former player, you're not a former team president but you are a hot take artist that found out about this story five minutes ago I'm gonna be very curious

Your take however for the audience that doesn't know Devontae Campbell a backup occasional starter linebacker for the San Francisco 49ers Was called upon to enter the game refused to enter the game and we have sound from all the key players involved. First let me walk you through this. Kyle Shanahan was asked about what happened after the game. Here's his sound. What happened with Devondrick Campbell? He didn't play and he went into the locker room at some point? Yeah, he said he didn't want to play today. Play today?

Yep. The coaching staff? He did when I asked him why he didn't want to go in. During the game or before? No, that was in the third quarter. Hock, you were on the Cleveland Primes with Kyle Shanahan, right? Yeah.

Yeah, I was there. How do you think this flies with Coach Kyle? Oh, he's pissed. He's pissed. He is. His team had just lost too. I mean, they took an L. Look, I'd be lying if I said

I never thought about leaving mid-game. Really? I mean, we had some bad losses in my day. Huh. You know? And it gets mentally. When you say quit, you mean quit your career? Quit?

Yeah, like maybe this is the minute. Maybe this is the minute I'm done, right here. You never do it. But you can fantasize about it. You never fantasize about quitting a job? Come on, nobody in here fantasized about quitting their job in the middle of a work day. Are you joking?

I mean, during the show, after the show, at night, in the morning, yeah. I know it's like, man, I can't believe you've done that. We've all had this fantasy before of just being like, you know what, to hell with this, bro. I'm going home. You know what I'm saying? Do you always act on it?

No. How about ever? Did you ever act on it? I've never acted on it. No. How about ever? Did you ever act on it? I've never acted on it. No. I've never acted. Were these fleeting thoughts or legitimate things that you were contemplating on the sideline

before they called you in? Wait, Hawk, Mike, I imagine he's down 31 to seven in the third quarter and he's like, what am I doing out here? What are we doing? This is what hurts, man. It's more dangerous to go in than for me to walk off the field.

Look, now look, I have told a coach I'm not going in before. Was it against the Steelers? It was not against the Steelers. I wish it would have been against the Steelers. Those teams would beat you up physically, I imagine, when you're 0-16. I'd be in a lot better situation health-wise right now.

Wait, so you told a coach? Yeah, I told a coach I would not do that. Really? Now, I don't know what the situation is with Campbell, right, and I know it looks terrible, and it is terrible. If I was his teammate, I would also be pissed. Like you think we wanted to go in, bro? Well wait, the situation, just to be clear,

is that he had started 12 of the first 13 games, he was second on the team in tackles, but then Greenlaw, who he had replaced because he had an Achilles injury, Greenlaw got healthy, he gets his starting job back, and then Campbell's back on the bench, but then Greenlaw said, oh, I got a little thing, I got a thing, and then the coach said,

all right, we're going back to you, and Campbell said, ah, you didn't want me, an hour ago, forget it, and he literally walked off. Are we really gonna act like we don't understand that a little bit, a little bit of that logic I'd release him on the spot. I would have gone to the locker room and released him on the spot I don't care if he's on waivers and goes to a playoff team. I don't want him in that uniform again It's a disgrace. But David wait a second. Let's hear Hawk out because he's trying there's a human element

There's a human element. Yes I'm just saying let's take a moment'm just saying, let's take a moment to try to understand this situation. Nope. All right, you have a girl. No moments. You know, a guy did your girl wrong, right? In her previous relationship.

And you step, you come in and save the day. And you've been, oh my gosh, you've been the best boyfriend that anybody could ask for. Know where this is going. Right? All of a sudden, ex-boyfriend comes back around and said, I've been working on myself.

I went to therapy. I'm a different person now. And she says, you know what? He was my first love. I'm going to give him a chance. It's wrong. Within the first week, he's back to his old tricks. And she comes crawling back to you, David.

And she says, you know what? I need need you I'm going through a tough time things didn't go the way we planned and you know what I realized now you're the one I want you're you're going back in that game if I'm extra lonely oh my god I'm on a cold streak you can that's it that's it that sounds like a you problem is this girl paying me 10 point seven million dollars for the year or no It's a good point. It's a lot of money. It's a good question Yeah, I don't know it depends on she's not it's a lot of money and to David Samson's point of cut them on the spot That that is a lot of money

Guy a is the guy that she wants but he's unreliable and Guy B is tired of being there when Guy A becomes unreliable again. I hate to be your backup player. Hock mentioned how this might go over in the locker room with the teammates. Let's hear from his teammates first. Trevarius Ward had something to say. I mean he's a professor and he's been playing for a long time. I mean if he didn't want to play he shouldn't have dressed out. You know, they could have told him that before the game. So I feel like there was some subtle s*** that he did.

Definitely hurt the team because you know, look at the total net before the game. So I feel like there was some sucker s*** that he did. Definitely hurt the team because, you know, D went down and we needed a linebacker, you know, and I think Flam was named up too. So for him to do that, that's some sucker stuff to me, in my opinion. Like, it's probably going to get cut soon, so it is what it is with that. And the thing about Javeris Ward is he had a daughter that passed away at one years old, played a couple of weeks later. So you're looking at a guy who has gone through some of the worst things imaginable and then yet went out and did his job and was there with his teammates

day in and day out. So you're, he's looking and being like, um, bro, what are we doing? He's also playing a position which Fred Warner is excelling at his position with a fractured ankle. He's played several games in a row with that fractured ankle. Your take on what Ward had to say before we get to another team leader in George Kittle. I didn't really hear anything about it because I got in the locker room, so it's all brand new information to me.

Look, if you're on the roster, you're expected in your suit up, expected play. I think anyone in this building got asked to go in, I would say 100% of everybody would die and get on that football field. And so, people are going through random things off the field, I can't speak on that, whatever his decision was. It wasn't for this organization, it wasn't for this team. And no, that's on him. Not very happy about it. I would have something to say. I wish I would have heard about it on the field.

But I didn't. Now, is that the reason we lost? Absolutely not. But you didn't. Now, is that the reason we lost? Absolutely not. But you don't really try to win football games when someone doesn't want to play football. So now, Hawk, you have, you know, the Niners, yeah, you have one of their best players, George Kittle. You have one of the best tight ends, one of the leaders of that team calling that guy out. Like, how do you feel about that?

Because that's what would happen to you if you had quit one of those games. Yeah, I wouldn't have cared. But look, here's the thing. I completely agree with everything every player has said. I completely agree with what you guys are saying. I think this is one of those moments in sports and football where everybody is going to be on one side because it's clearly the right side.

To his point, it's hard to win football games when guys don't wanna play football. Devil's advocate. Yes. He's actually doing the 49ers a favor. Really? Because this is the conversation versus how terrible they've been playing. So they should be thanking him for giving them this out at the end of a game because that was a horrible football game.

Why is that a bad take? Because he's right. We're not talking about Kyle Shanahan today. We're not talking about Brock Purdy and how bad he was yesterday. I bought the over under 217. So I have no idea why anyone's upset at all. I did a StuGots. The 12-6 game was a barn burner. Loved every minute of having six field goals.

So does this deflect from a loss that pretty much ends San Francisco season? Or does it compound some of the larger issues? Because if you're a Niners fan and you're watching that game, you're wondering about the blueprint, and then you have a productive player quitting on you, a player that you're paying a lot of money to,

quitting on you too. It does kind of feel like, is this the end for this? Not necessarily Regime, because Kyle's in high demand, but their window certainly feels like it might have closed and slammed shut last night. It already did. Wow. Yeah, I told you that five weeks ago that the 49ers window was closed on Tony's top five.

I saw it from the beginning. And that was even before the Caffrey injury. I wrote it down. I do think it's a microcosm of what's going on in the 49ers. I think they have aging superstars and you just can't run that kind of positionless offense and style when guys are hurt and routinely injured and not playing well.

I mean, Debo's asking for the ball and then he's dropping what seems to be a touchdown pass at moments, like yeah, this is a microcosm of what the state of the 49ers is. And again, I know we're all joking here, but that is bullshit. To quit a game, like there is an accountability that happens with the football team,

to you hear it in Kittle's voice, and you expect the guy next to you to be as locked in as you are. We're gonna do everything we can to get a win. We're gonna come in here, and under any circumstance, even if it's the littlest contribution, we're gonna do whatever is needed. And clearly that wasn't the case.

Now again, he might be going through something mentally. We've seen moments where guys have left mid-game. This is probably closer to the AB situation than the rest in peace Vonte Davis situation, because it just felt like mentally Vonte Davis just wasn't in that moment, end of his career. It was like, this is too much. I've moved cities this many times.

Where A.B.'s was very similar to this. He wanted the football, they weren't giving it to him. They told him to go in. At the end, he was like, no. You didn't give me the ball, I'm not going in. This feels more like that. And it's, you don't expect it from a 31 year old linebacker who's been in this league a long time.

Thankfully kept his shirt on. Yeah, that was, I view that as a positive. No, I wouldn't say that, because then we didn't know. We didn't find out until after. I wish you would have, so we made it a little more interesting. It was so disgusting. We all would have quit. I would have quit just to be outside of the weather.

Inside in the rain. It was disgusting. I mean, please. You guys all would have walked. You wouldn't have stayed out there. Arthritis. Arthritis. I've had insight from previous union reps before, Hawk, but I haven't really had the opportunity to talk to you

about these short week Thursday night football games because it's always a national talking point anytime you have a really bad game. And last night was a really bad game. Watch out for the Rams though, sneaky. I mean, they just have the Jets, cards, Hawks. You're right. They can be awesome playoff.

I'm with you. They are sneaky. Yeah, I mean they just have the Jets car But you were you in I imagine you were representing your team when it came to these discussions on the short week Thursday night Football games that that was slop now. There's slop occasionally on Sunday as Laura knows the AFC South was putting up about a decade's worth of divisional slot, but I mean you can't ignore they're paying a lot of money. This is a feature game. It does have some stakes attached to it, and it was just garbage. Yeah, it was garbage.

And I mean, there's garbage games on Sundays as well. Now look, my take when I was in the league on Thursday night football, I hated them. I mean, they were the bane of my existence. The two things I hated most in the NFL were Thursday night football games and joint training camp practices. Because joint training camp practices

are a sneaky way for teams to add like three preseason games. Because you go harder in those joint practices than you do in the games because you're there and you're like, okay, I'm practicing against the Bills. I might be a free agent next year or this year. So we're like literally competing for two coaching staffs to show what you have on like a, oh, this is my chance.

And guys go way too hard. And then you play that team. Because they're looking for a job. Oh, I hate it. I think it is the, again, the sneakiest way to add four preseason football games. What about the day after the Thursday game? It may have been a bad game, but now they get 10 days off.

Yeah, I mean, that's valid. Why not the glass half full, we're sitting here being so negative. That's the part I didn't mind, but it is hard to get up for a Thursday. Now here's the other part for players. Like everything feels like the worst thing in the world until you're in it.

Like as an old person in the league, when the Thursday night football games were coming around, I was like, this is crazy. This is terrible. But then over time, the young guys didn't care because it was just, it's just life to them. Does your body physically feel different getting up for a Thursday game? I would just always assume like maybe they're a little bit more sore. How do they get up and muster the same kind of effort? No, not when you're young, man.

The old guys feel it. The young guys, I mean, when I was 23, 24, I could, I didn't even warm up, bro. I just walked out to practice. That's my kind of guy. And I'm like, you're putting on Ben Gay before practice? How old are you, dude? And then, by the time I was 30, I'm hot tub, cold tub.

Tiger balm, bengay, massage. Heat pack. Heat pack. Ice pack. 17 Advil. Thinking about quitting. Meditation moments. Insoles in the shoes.

Tortoil, green tea. Greenies. I would, no, this is no bullshit. I would leave our position meeting, my receiver coach let me out of my position meeting 20 minutes earlier just so I could go through my routine to be ready for practice. That's how old I get. Let's not forget a week ago though there was 65 points scored right on Thursday night between the Packers and the Lions. Let's not forget a week ago they had

seven days rest. Sure okay understood but still like there's been good Thursday games. The issue too this week was the tsunami and the rainstorm that came out of nowhere in the Bay Area. Nobody was expecting that, and then all of a sudden, like here it is before the game, torrential downpour. That's what you should be boycotting. It's San Francisco. Right, it happens.

All of a sudden it came out of nowhere. It's the worst weather city of all the baseball cities. Seattle's worse. They're planning Candlestick Park, there's a roof. But planting Candlestick Park, I don't know if you ever did, but if you ever, it's the worst. I say dome every NFL stadium. Nobody likes that take, but brass. Get rid of the elements.

I do not wanna play in rain, I do not wanna play in snow. Football was meant to be played outside. It was meant to be played in the elements. What are you talking about? Maybe the old football. Maybe the old view, frozen tundra. Maybe where the Stu guys were running backs in the NFL. The autumn wind is a pirate.

This goes nice till Thanksgiving-ish. The fake Mark Twain quote about coldest winters being summers that he didn't actually say. No, you have to have some element of elements in this sport. Can we get it right? The worst winter I ever spent

was the summer I spent in San Francisco. Right, but it wasn't actually Mark Twain that said it. But it wasn't the quote you said either. I know, so I don't have to respect the quote if it's not a real quote. Dan's and Dan, we have perfect fodder. A football player quit on his team. So it's wonderful as the as a season just

They're not talking about me Dan flames out in embers Hawk admitted that he had considered but not seriously. I'm Curious like what was what was a one point in your career where you're like, I'm I don't know Jim One one and 15 season when you're like, it's the third quarter, you're down by 30. Right. You know, the defense is out there, they start to say, put return on alert. You're like, I gotta go back out here

and risk getting my head taken off, knowing there's no chance for us to win this game or probably any game for the remainder of this season. But you went back out there. But I went back out there. Every single time. And I don't know if that was me being institutionalized, but I did fantasize about it.

Peanut Tillman said that he was playing in a game in Chicago, and this is Peanut Tillman, right? Notorious tough guy where the field was so much ice and stuff that when he went out there, he's like, I just don't want to do this. I want to quit. I want to stop playing football. It's a Tuesday for people to feel that in their job, I don't want to do this. I want to quit. I want to stop playing football.

It's a Tuesday for people to feel that in their job, but you don't manifest it, especially when you're a professional athlete in the public view. You don't manifest it by walking off the field the way he did. The image that we haven't shown. He's hurt, David.

He wasn't limping. It wasn't a nose read. He is hurts. His ego is her to get on so sorry still is no rehab for feeling that the other very sad but hawk can he get a job again because this is the cardinal sin right the times i have seen uh... players react the way george kittle did barrett robbins when he

didn't show up for a super bowl cuz he had a bipolar episode and vante davis when he quit at halftime of a Bills game it's the only time I've seen players react the way they react yeah because it's the Cardinals sin will hit will another team put this player on a roster once he's cut because this is the worst thing you can do in football is choose not to play when your teammates need you I won't say it's impossible, Dan. I mean, if he still wants, I don't know, that's the point. Like, if I walk off a field, I have no intentions

on ever walking back on it. Like, when Vonte Davis left, he wasn't coming back to a football field, he knew that, and he's like, you know what, this is the moment where I feel like my career is done. The reason I ask the question is because this is a player who has, like all players in the NFL, worked so much of his life to get this point to this point, and now we're learning

his name associated with quitting. This is what he's getting. He is known now more for quitting than he is for playing. And I think that is what's going to block him from playing on another team. I don't think he's going to want to come back from this. But he's a good player that from this. That's just my opinion. He was good. He was good. He was good.

He was also the 2023 Walter Payton Man of the Year nominee. So it's like a good dude. He's just done. He should just do a Costanza, show up at practice the next day and pretend like nothing ever happened. Not letting him. Just trying to ask a light.

Don't you think other teams, even within that division, will understand, like, OK, he performed admirably in the starter's place. Starter comes back, starts not feeling completely right. They ask him to go in. And not a good moment, certainly quitting. But if you add just the additional context,

people can understand, like, this was maybe just an emotional moment. But that happens every single day. There's guys that play great. And then all of a sudden, hey, the starter's back in. Your ass is on the bench. Guess what? I got to make sure that next time my number's called,

I'm playing great so that I become a starter. Yeah, but then the starter comes back and he's not good enough to play anymore. Then the starter gets hurt. And then he wants him to go back in. And he's like, no, I ain't going back in. No. Mid-game holdout, man.

They should have just negotiated a new contract He'd have been in there about a fourth. Does it surprise you that it's a veteran that's doing this. It does surprise me That's why I'm like leaning more towards the is he trying to retire Type of thing or is it that yo, I didn't warm up to go in here to play Ha if I go out there, I'm gonna get exposed Fred Warner has been playing on a fractured ankle for 11 weeks I don't even know how a human being does that the rest of that team is Falling apart after being one of the best teams in the league for five years only because their guys keep getting carried off the field Like they're physically broken and this guy does that like he I don't know that I think he loses

Friendships over something like that in that locker room given what trust means for sure in your particular game now he definitely loses friendships if he had him you'd be surprised how there's not like real friendships in the nfl regardless you're absolutely right on all those things i'm just trying to like put myself in the mind of campbell of what could be going through your mind at thirty one which is all in the nfl linebackers bill the sideline the entirety of Campbell of what could be going through your mind at 31 which is old in the NFL linebacker who's been on the sideline the entirety of the game

maybe you didn't warm up the way that you thought you would because you didn't think you were playing and in this moment it's like a I can't go in there because I'm gonna get exposed because I'm not ready to play now that is something I can identify with my rookie year with the Bengals in preseason this is the second preseason game now I'm a guy coming from Canada, I'm low on the roster, and I'm like, I'm trying to do everything in my damn power to just stick around on the roster.

It was late in maybe the first game that I played, I can't remember who it was against, maybe the Jets, maybe the Lions, but Marvin Lewis walks up to me and he's like, hey, go out there and, you know, jump in then, I was like, I'm gonna go out there and do a punt return. And then, I was like, I'm gonna go out there and do a punt return. And then, I was like, I'm gonna go out there

and do a punt return. And then, I was like, I'm gonna go out there and do a punt return. And then, I was like, I'm gonna go out there and do a punt return. And then, I was like, I'm gonna go out there and do a punt return. And then, I was like, I'm gonna go out there

and do a punt return. And then, I was like, I'm gonna go out there and do a punt return. And then, I was like, I'm gonna go out there and do a punt return. And then, I was like, I'm gonna go out there and do a punt return. And then, I was like, I'm gonna go out there and do a punt return. And then, I was like, I'm gonna go out there and do a punt return. And then, I was like, I'm your ass out there and return these punts. And I said, coach, I didn't practice that and I don't want to go out there and drop

a punt and then you cut me and then all the rest of the 31 teams see that I can't catch punts and I don't have a chance. Marvin Lewis comes over to try to convince me and I said, look, if you give me a week, I will return punts next week. They were like, okay, interesting, interesting strategy. You're crazy, man. That week, I worked on punt returns all week. They put me in, I returned it for 41 yards in the first punt return. Made the practice one. That's an honest to God, truth story.

But I was not willing to go out there and just seal my fate when I wasn't confident in myself and abilities. I can't believe you did that. That is a true story. I can't believe that you told coaches who were coming to you on the sidelines asking for a favor, I haven't practiced that. It's not a favor, they're asking him to do something he's never done before.

No, I'm not prepared. He's done it a bunch of times in his life before, just not for that team. I sucked at catching punts. He's done it a bunch of times in his life before, just not for that team. I suck at catching punts. It's hard. The stakes are too big to go out here and just give it a shot. Because no one's going to have that contact. Imagining you as a punt returner.

It's the worst job in football. I didn't return a single punt or kick in my career, and I'm 5'7". I'm the first sub 5'10 receiver in NFL history who was truly just a wide receiver. I don't think you guys realize that. I was not a returner. I can't believe they didn't wave you. I know but it was something, it was a bet I was willing to make. Was that naivete, like you're just entering the league? If veteran Hawk was around, would he advise young Hawk differently?

That might have been the wisest I've ever been in my life. It's unbelievably smart. I just can't believe your coaches accepted it without consequences. So here's what happened previously, to even me getting to Cincinnati. Lockout happened and I had signed with the Rams, and I got cut on day one, and I had a great practice.

The one thing that happened in practice one is I dropped the punt. So if I'm the Rams, and got cut on day one and I had a great practice. The one thing that happened in practice one is I dropped the punt. So if I'm the Rams and you might be thinking, oh he's 5'7 and he dropped two punts. And I'm like, well maybe that's why they cut me. Won't make that mistake again. Get to Cincinnati, not in a game brother. Go out there and return.

Absolutely not. And it was a thing like Marvin Lewis, the special teams coordinator, the receiver coach, they're like trying to convince me like, hey you don't know how bad of a likeness is putting you in, but I had to bet on myself in that moment. You're not even betting on yourself, you're just betting that you're gonna return a fund.

You're betting on the fact that you're gonna fumble. That's weird, you're betting against yourself. Could've scored a touchdown, I mean. The other team could've scored a touchdown too. That's true, you're a a touchdown. It's outrageous. I want to hear more about your fake NFL friends. What's up, everybody? Tony here.

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He's an overrated coach. This is the Dan Lebatard Show with the Stugats. Some of the ticket prices for these college football playoff games are insane. But it's the first time we've ever seen games with this kind of stakes attached in home on-campus venues. Really in-demand tickets. And I'm sure a lot of you are frustrated because you're wondering how can I get these in-demand tickets? Jess, I know you're headed up to South Bend for a playoff game against Indiana. Why don't you download the Game Time app? I'm sure you already have. But if you haven't, create an account, use code Dan, that is D-A-N, for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. You get panoramic seat views, Game Time's incredible ticket coverage,

really the best in the secondary ticket marketplace. Download Game Time today. What time is it? Well, it's game time. It's game time. It's game time. It's game time. Jessica, what is your level of enthusiasm for Saturday and bold season? You mean this Saturday?

That's right. I thought you meant the Notre Dame game, which is next Friday. I won tickets in the lottery, so don't have to go on the secondary market very exciting face value. Congratulations. Thank you. Are you afraid of losing to Indiana? Well said. Yeah I mean I think it's gonna be a great game I'm really excited. It's like two teams that never play each other where every single person who's a fan of either team is either a fan of the other team also or knows someone who is like who's a fan of either team is either a fan of the other team also or knows someone who is.

It's a very two kind of close knit fan communities I think. So I'm excited. My best friend went to Indiana. A lot of my friends went to Indiana. It's great. I think it's going to be super cool. But yeah, this Saturday bowl season starts. There is a bowl game this Saturday.

Hawk, I know you played in a couple bowl games while you were at Toledo. Yeah, big time bowl games. Detroit, one of the Motor City bowl, right? And then you played in the GMAC bowl, which is in Alabama. Mobile, Alabama to be specific. What? So Toledo is actually playing in the Detroit bowl game again against Pitt this year. Yeah, we played in that one a lot. Very exciting stuff. You have Pittsburgh ties, right? Yes, Pitt, yeah. And I know you're from Johnstown, Johnstown Flood.

We've been over David McCullough's wonderful book on the flood. Absolutely. It needs to be a movie. It does need to be a movie. Who would you cast in the movie of the Johnstown Flood? I've been thinking about this a lot, actually. Leonardo DiCaprio, I think, would be great.

As Andrew Carnegie? I don't know about Carnegie. That's original. Tom Hanks, also. I don't know if you've That's original. Tom Hanks also. Great. I don't know if you've heard of these actors. They're usually up for the same roles. Yeah, and it'd be great to get them both in there. I think DiCaprio could-

There's a lot of white guys in John's part. De Niro and everything. Plenty to go around. DiCaprio could be a good evil Andrew Carnegie. Yeah. Oh, we're gonna build our fancy retreat in this place where it just grew over the town. Me and you know what happened.

Exactly. The rest of the world needs to understand that this was the biggest natural disaster on American soil until Hurricane Katrina in my hometown. Also, Altoona's been in the news a lot lately. Ah, yeah. We discussed Altoona and the curve on the show prior to the most recent news of this.

Now I feel at home, Jessica. Thank you, Dan. You're welcome. You should be more like Jessica. She knows how to welcome me in here. Now I feel at home, Jessica. Thank you, Dan. You're welcome. You should be more like Jessica. She knows how to welcome me in. People say that about him all the time. I would imagine. What is it like as a football player at Toledo

to play in the postseason and play in these bowl games? Because I personally love bowl season. Yeah. I've been saddened by- You played when it mattered. Yeah. When bowls mattered. Yeah, exactly.

I've been slightly saddened that like the sort of seven and five team to eight and fourteen bowl games have been Not devalued because they're not devalued to me But it's like there's less enthusiasm from a lot of people now that we have the 12 team playoff So as a player, I guess what's your perspective on bowl season in general? Yeah, that's a great question And you know what I love about this show is I can be honest. I'm not honest anywhere else as much as I am here. I hated bowl games. It sucked.

You got swag bags. Yeah, I mean. What was the swag bag like for the GMAC bowl? I think for the GMAC bowl, we got a, this is an old time, it was like a portable DVD player. Nice. We got a camcorder for, actually no, we got a portable DVD player. Nice. We got a camcorder for, actually no, we got a portable DVD player and a camcorder

for the Motor City Bowl, which is my freshman year. We went against Dan Orlowski, torched us. In year two, we went against Jordan Palmer and the UTEP Miners, I believe is their mascot, and they gave us like a designer hammer. And I'm like, okay, this okay, I'm good on bowl season. They elongated our season. You practice for a month and a half

after your season is done. A hammer? They gave you a hammer. They gave us a hammer, man. I said designer hammer. I've never heard that. It was like a specially designed hammer. Like a Louis Vuitton wrapped hammer?

I don't know what the hell it was, but I didn't play in another bowl game for the rest of my career. Can we check this? And I don't know what the hell it was, but I didn't play in another bowl game for the rest of my career, and I didn't lose a night of sleep. So if your team was like five and six going into the last week of the season, would you like maybe not try that hard? I mean, I wouldn't throw the game

if that's what you're asking. But like, season's over if you lose. Also, I don't know if you've been to Toledo, Ohio. Oh my God, are you kidding? I have family in Toledo, Ohio. I've been there a million times. It is miserable. Perrysburg?

And we didn't have an indoor facility. This is the Mac Conference we're talking about. There's a great science museum there though. I've never been to the science museum. No, we're just practicing in the snow for an extra month and a half, only to go get whooped by whatever six round quarterback. To get hammered and to get hammered.

Both, yes. It was miserable. So making a bowl meant an additional month out in the elements. Damn it. It's like what, 15 extra practices that you get for bowl season? So would your perspective have been different if you made like the Bahamas bowl or the Hawaii bowl?

Absolutely. So the problem here is the cold weather. The destination, absolutely. For sure. That makes a lot of sense. That's what I would expect. Count me in on the Bahamas Bowl. What are you shaking your head about, Samson?

All I'm hearing from Hawkins, and I'm happy working with him today, but all I'm hearing are things that I have such contempt for that I'm having a hard time, because I'm trying. Welcome to the, welcome. Trying to like you.

You have a Yankee hat on. You're talking about walking out. You're talking about not telling a coach that you won't go in to catch a punt. And now you're saying that you don't want to practice extra for a bowl game. I thought it was business first with you, David. I thought that was.

The business is telling your coach that you're gonna go in. That's like saying, oh, I'm not good at punting. Don't put the bun sign on. No, that's my business. Are you in the business of not getting a career? I'm in the business of not losing my career. So I gotta go, I gotta raise the floor. You're on the practice squad.

I wasn't yet. Well, so what career did you have? I can promise you, had I went in there and dropped a punt, I would not be sitting at the, I can guarantee you, David, had I got in there and dropped a punt against the Carolina Panthers in my second preseason game of my rookie year,

you guys would have no idea who I am. You guys don't understand though what an amazing decision that was that he had to make when he's doing the calculations on, if I drop a punt, I'm gonna get waved. Am I gonna get waved if I tell my coaches, I'm not going to do this? There is calculations happening on your career

on the sideline right there. He provided a crucial insight in that. He muffed a punt and got cut immediately so he knows the cause and effect with his time at the Rams. I might make a mistake, Mike. I'll never make a mistake twice. You know, it's funny, like you detail all these things that kind of sound miserable.

Practicing outside at Toledo, CFL, winning one professional football game in two full seasons. Toledo. Toledo. Toledo. Holy Toledo. So you go through all of that,

and then you go to Foxborough, and you link up with the Patriots. You have the greatest quarterback of all time and the greatest head coach of all time, and that's when you decide, eh, that's enough. Yeah, I think this is it. It's too good now.

Yeah. I need misery. And actually, my first practice in New England, that's enough. Yeah, I think this is it. It's too good now. Yeah. I need misery. And actually, my first practice in New England, it snowed. It was May 28th. So there is that. You tell Belichick you're not returning a punt. You think it's going the same way

that it went with Marvin Lewis? No, no, absolutely not. That's not how that works. I wanted to ask you about something I've been talking about for a couple of days funny enough. So Odell Beckham and the Dolphins agree to mutually part ways.

And one of the things that I was saying this week is how does Odell Beckham, given where he's been in sports and fame and stardom, feel about playing a dolphin game and seeing a stat line that has one catch for one yard? I was arguing that a receiver might rather have zero catches for zero yards because then people can assume he didn't play.

Whereas if- Like the Chris Bosh rule. Chris Bosh had like one point in an NBA finals. Zero. No, scoreless in a game seven. There was a basketball player that had one point in a playoff game and I was like, I'd rather have zero. Zero?

Yeah, I'd rather have zero than just one singular point. One catch for one yard? Yeah. You don't want zeros. One catch for one yard is just as bad as all zeros, but all zeros shows that you played and didn't get a catch. I think one catch for one yard is worse than zero for zero yards,

but what if I make it one catch for negative one yard? Then do you prefer that to zero for zero yards? I think I've had games with negative receiving yards. Can we check the stats on those? Well, I'm checking the stats on the 2005 GMAC bowl and the 2004 Motor City bowl. What does it say? You're not on either box score,

so I think in this case, you'd rather have one catch for one yard, because then I could be like, hey, you got it in the game. You know why I'm not in the box score, Jessica? Because you went return a punt? Because you were a freshman. Because I broke my back the game before

and I did not play in the bowl game. Oh, that's one year, what about the second? You should beat the Miners. The first year it's zero catches zero yards because I did play in that game. Can you guys get for me the last time I heard I broke my back said quite that way when Mike Tyson was in a ring

being interviewed by Jim Gray. The problem, Hawk, is that your defense gave up 17 points in the first quarter to Orlovsky. I mean, that's a tough place to come back from. Better second quarter for the Rockets, but when you're down 17-0. What can you actually do? We lost our number one receiver in Lancemore,

Bruce Gretkowski NFL talent Parmily I was in a slot I don't why were we why were we arguing about Mac teams on this show a couple years ago It might have been when Notre Dame almost lost to Toledo in 2021 I was like hey Toledo's got some dudes like they're they put dudes in the NFL. to do it so i would i would argue we are top fifty program in the last forty years uh... put on the pole please is to lead a little top fifty program in the last

forty years and play the mike tyson sound please mike were you really sick this week what was the problem i broke my back do you mean that you're back to is broken. What? A vertebrae or a horse? Spinal. Yes, I understand Mike Tyson. I wanted to ask David Sampson something here based on what it is that the Jets are doing with their GM search, where they're going to a firm

that employs Rick Spielman and Mike Tannenbaum, two failed Dolphin general managers, to get their new general manager. And a failed Jets general manager on top of that. Yeah, Tannenbaum is both, right, a failed Dolphin general manager. Actually, he was more successful with the Jets, but Spielman, also a failed Dolphin general manager. What do you make successful with the Jets, but Spielman also a failed dolphin general manager.

What do you make of just the general incestuousness of continuing to go over and over to get your expertise from the same people? Owners like comfort. It's like comfort food. They go back to people and that's the talk of Belichick going back to some of his old assistant coaches. It's a weird thing that owners have when there's openings. They want to bring people back.

Think about George Timberlake with Billy Martin, old reference, but you bring them back again and again, and owners have always been like that. And everybody's smart. They're starting these consulting companies where you get paid to perform a job that anyone could do without being paid to do it. So when you're being paid to sell a team,

if you wanna sell a team, you raise your hand and say you're selling a team and people come to you. When you've got an opening for GM, what they're saying is we can identify kids in a way that you can't, but that's not how it works actually. They can't, right? They don't have, those two people proved to me over many years that they don't have a special ability to find talent. Howdy folks, it's Mike and guess what? It's Miller time. The holiday season brings around lots of joy and also lots of family, lots of family gatherings at your home. You're inviting people in there. You want to make sure they're happy. Why don't you make their time at your place

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