The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Local Hour: So... What Ever Happened With That Jimmy Butler Situation?

Episode Date: March 6, 2025

"But why did they take away the ice cream?" Andrew Hawkins tries to catch himself up on that whole Jimmy Butler thing. Today's cast: Dan, Amin, Andrew Hawkins, Chris, Jeremy, Mike, and Tony. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Shadow Show. Shadow Show. Shadow in it. Shadow in it. I believe that Hawk and Amin are tougher than I am. They have seen me lament and whimper for a while now about, I don't think I'm a good leader. I'm bad at leadership. And I'm looking today from the 10th floor of this building in a very nice gym, and I'm seeing walk across the street. Okay, I got Danny Benitez, I got Mallie lugging a bunch of equipment,

and I got Fuentes leading the charge, and they had to park at Bayside, because I didn't know when we started this that parking would be really hard in downtown Miami. And I'm looking down there at them, and I'm like, you know what? I'm starting to like my team. They're just, they're three little gorillas,

you know, walking across the street, carrying a bunch of equipment. It took me four years, I'm like, I haven't liked my team for four years. But I'm liking that they care like that because I have said for a while, you give me people who care, and we'll try and figure out how it is that we make something with them.

And I've been thinking a lot recently, because Jimmy Johnson's career is over and he chose one path at 50, right? Jimmy Johnson at 50 years old said, okay, I don't like what this shit does to me. I'm gonna go be in a department over there. But Pat Riley chose to stay with it for the next 30 years and now the whole machine comes for grandpa because the way they lost against

Cleveland last night where even Spoh looks bad where you're like what are they doing at the end of the game with those rotations and what they're doing is they're not very good and they're trying to figure it out and with Tyler Hero's out it's like what the hell would it you know we got Terry Rozier to do this. Thoughts and prayers for Tyler Hero. He had a vicious head cold. Wow. That's his attempt at like,

well, hockey player would have AIDS and still play. No, no, no, no. You guys got it. You guys got it. No, that's not what I'm doing. Okay. That's not what I'm doing. Dan is right.

It sounded genuine. It sounded like real concern. Dan is right to point out the rotation is bad because they're bad, but the rotation is bad because they're holding out Tyler Hero for headcolds because it's pretty obvious what's happening here over the last two games is I think the Miami Heat and its culture trying to tank. They won the last game they played before this one. A, headcolds are going around. That's number one, something we cannot take lightly and should not take like everything's going around everything is going around

to the disappointment of I guess the way Terry Rozier played last night which I was made aware of this morning because I There's not a person on planet Earth who knows less about the Miami Heat Than the guy that you're talking to right you do this every time you come in here though I don't know what happened last. Oh you guys lost You watch them more than I do I promise I only get the heat news when I walk in this building and Terry Rozier, but you walk in the building saying hey guys whatever happened with that Jimmy Butler situation I want to know

Smiling solid troll where did that where did that end up? Like explain to me the last. He's on Golden State now. The last we left it. There was something going on with Pat Riley and a disagreement about should he play, should he not? And I'm like, you know what? We're looking for topics for the show.

I don't know if we have time and can fit it in, but where did that land? Dan, Do we? Just because Jeremy was so quick to correct me that they won their last game, yes, they beat the 12-win Wizards. Yes, they did. Congratulations to them.

My apologies. So the Tank, it is a strange thing when you get culture meets Tank, and what is the explanation for Terry Rozier playing the entire fourth quarter? Well, he's the worst player in the league statistically. He's shot 26% from three since January 1st. He's got 33 fouls, 33 turnovers,

and 33 threes since January 1st. So you put in your worst player in the league and you aggressively try to lose against Cleveland, but you keep it close because everyone else has to care. But also it's his hometown team. So maybe they just fourth quarter against the hometown put Terry in this one's Riley just you know being the good guy that he is It's not Riley's fault man. He's too busy This is the down laboratoryBattor Show with the StuGuts Podcast.

The second half last night, Terry Rozier 0-4-8, three turnovers, plays 22 of the 24 minutes and it was like watching somebody who doesn't know how to play basketball try to play basketball. Let's play the clip from last night's game. Oh wow. Why are we doing this? Come on guys. basketball, try to play basketball, let's play the clip from last night's game. Wow. Why are we doing this? Come on, guys. So for the listeners, they're playing

Philip Seymour Hoffman's basketball scene. This is not scary, Terry. Make it rain! Raindrop! It was, I bet it was abysmal. Like you're watching something in a heat uniform you don't recognize and it's like Eric Spolstra, who called a timeout he didn't have earlier this season,

was purposely putting in Philip Seymour Hoffman from Along Came Pauly to turn the ball over at half court with no one bothering him. Hey, I have a history of being a part of a tank. The key to a tank is that the players can't know that it's the tank. It's like you just put Hawk at X receiver And Hawk is like man weird. Hey now now they're finally getting

but Time y'all figured this out. It is the you got to be a wizard No pun intended to really be able to make all the possible I mean, I'm watching Terry Rozier, and I hurt for him because it's clear his confidence is shot. His shots are not even close to going in. No, it's one of those situations where, I've seen coaches do this too,

when a guy like Hawk complains about, y'all don't run no plays for me or whatever, say, okay, here we go. We're gonna force feed it every single time to prove that you're not good enough to have plays run for you, right? Or- It's evil.

It's evil, but it's like the ultimate exposure of, okay, you want it? All right, here we go. You think you're being underutilized? Wait a minute, Hawk's like, I'm ready. Throw it to me. Come on, let's do it, finally. Let's examine this for a second, okay?

Because as far as heat basketball goes over 15 years, this would represent the apocalypse of the last 15 years. For whatever Mike Ryan's complaints were about Kyle Lowry, that's the best teams they've had since 2014, the ones that had Jimmy Butler and Kyle Lowry trying to grit their way to the end of the line.

But they've clearly been passed by, and this would have been unthinkable, unseeable a few years ago, clearly been passed by the Cleveland Cavaliers, clearly been passed by the New York Knicks. These were the teams that they stepped on their neck on their way to what the last 15 years of excellence has been here. It seems like one guy is the cog in that whole scenario is the guy that you tried to get Donovan Mitchell has made the Cavs the best team in the East, maybe the best team in the league.

Well, there are a lot of other things in play that Amin can attest to. I mean, Jared Allen looks most like the ABA in the entire league and him and Moe Blink give them a front line that the New York Knicks went through easily with Mitchell Robinson, and now it looks a little different the way they formed the entire team, and Garland is your fourth best player. Allen was hurt when Mitchell Robinson went through the Cavs.

Yeah, and also I just think that time goes by, and I think their first playoff for that group, and now they're not the same people they were a couple years ago. And I think that this is, like Cleveland is just a team that has matured. It's taken them some time, they've taken their lumps, but they've matured and you throw in an addition

of Kenny Atkinson as a head coach, and he's got a different outlook and a different way of strategizing. I think all that stuff conspires to give you a much better team even though you look at the personalities. It's the same guys that got ran through by Mitchell Robinson. So how did Jimmy Butler end up on the Warriors? Oh, that's a good question. You trade like what was the like the so this catalyst so at the end Why did it like ultimately in there Wiggins?

Kyle Anderson, no, no, no, may I so on trade deadline day. There was like a 15 Maybe like a 15, maybe like a 15 hour window where there was a chance that it was like, holy crap, Kevin Durant's coming to the heat. That's what you said. That's not what, just what I said. I didn't say it on air. Second of all, that's not what I said.

And can I say this? This is the honest to God truth. This is the first time I've ever heard this. There you go. See, that's why I'm catching him up. This is like, Clip notes. Clip notes for anyone who has missed the NBA. Like I'll catch you up here.

So, the Suns were the only team that was willing to take Jimmy Butler, right? And so then the Suns and the Heat tried to do a three-way deal with the Warriors. The Warriors wanted Kevin Durant because somewhere along the line, the Suns said, you know what? We don't need Kevin Durant.

Don't ask me why, right? So, deal was done. They're like, okay, you get a bunch of stuff and Warriors, you get Kevin Durant. And Suns, you get Jimmy Butler. And then Kevin Durant says, I don't want to play for the Warriors. And so that deal kind of fell apart.

So then the Heat and the Suns try to make something happen. But then Kevin Durant said, I don't want to go anywhere. I want to finish the season in Phoenix. So then the Warriors and the Heat were like, what about us? Now mind you, a little bit earlier in the year, the Warriors said they don't want any parts of Jimmy Butler because they don't want to pay. It's not about now, it's about two years from now.

Well, somewhere along the lines, I guess because they started losing a lot since then. And also, Steph Curry was depressed and stuff. He's like, man, every day I got to do everything myself. This is too hard. And so the Warriors are like, OK, maybe we can pay him. And then meanwhile, the Heat were like, OK, we kind of like, we'll take Andrew Wiggins,

we'll take Kyle Anderson, we'll take. Yeah. I have no idea why you were so eager to do this. Because I'm catching him up. Some people weren't, you know what, Dan? You assumed too much. You assumed some people didn't know, or just know everything, but the people like Hawk

are like, hey, love the show. So ultimately, that's how he ended up with the Warriors. So let me explain to, thank you for catching him up on the slow report on news that's 10 days old. Or more than 10 days. Or more than 10 days old, good. Even older than I thought, thank you. Hey, it was a Super Bowl, there was a combo,

there's a whole bunch, the guy was missing. My head was deep in the football. Now he knows, now he's back up to date. The thing that I want to analyze here is, because I tried to start yesterday with a wink wink joke about it wasn't cookies that LeBron had on the flight, it was ice cream. Everything I said was true.

LeBron James got mad because the nutritionist took away his ice cream. He didn't like it. The moment he didn't like it, they brought back the ice cream. The story is a ridiculous one that's being told that Pat Riley was micromanaging the cookies in the ice cream. I thought it'd be funny to point out to the audience that right now Pat Riley is so under it that the people who care about him, the people who care about the things he built in 50 years and specifically the things he built over the last 30 are getting mad that in the new age you can just say anything and it becomes a thing that is true about Pat Riley because

everyone's feeding now on an organization they haven't quite been able to feed on in 20 years because of how obvious it is that they've been passed by boston and milwaukee and new york and cleveland but somehow not philadelphia and i'm asking you to as experts in sports and experts about what it takes to continually get to excellence in sports i saw jimmy johnson at fifty say this is too much for me i don't like it the life balance what it turns me into don't like it i'm gonna do television for thirty

years i saw pat riley try television with bob costas for your say i don't like that i'm going back to the grind he's seventy eight years old there's literally no reason for him to be doing any more of this except he can't quit it and now he's getting devoured by the machine because his team stinks and his coach can be questioned if indeed they're tanking because of how bad he has been this year Mike says no blame for Spoh

you could spread it all around and also Tyler Hero has a head cold and they're playing Terry Rozier way too much. It's going around. Is he under it? This is not like Matt Eberfluss in Chicago. This is a very charmed existence that Pat Riley's had as this has been predictable in that it was predicted on this show. This is the wrong course of action. You got it exactly right.

Yeah, but a lot of people did. That started before they went to the NBA finals. I think it's important that we contextualize when we were starting those predictions. I just think that matters in this conversation. But Mike Ryan didn't want to. Could have got Wemby. Is what they're saying.

They could have got Wemby. We're still doing that. You know that. You can't with me. You can't with you. You know that. You could have got Wemby. That's fine.

We're here in the end game now. We're here. It's fine. We're in the end game now. You lost. You were wrong. You sounded like moron for two years. That's crazy. You sounded like an idiot. It was impossible to be wrong. we're here in the endgame now. We're here, it's fine. You lost, you were wrong. You sounded like moron for two years. It's crazy.

You sounded like an idiot. It was impossible to be wrong. We're here. You don't still push back. This is unbelievable. You're Terry Rozier right now, jacking up threes from half court. You haven't watched a game in two and a half years since the prediction started. See what I mean?

Matt Eberfluss didn't have a Jeremy Tache. You just said you didn't have a 38 points last night. Eberfluss never had a Jeremy Tache. Iber Fluse didn't have a Jeremy Tache. Iber Fluse didn't have a Jeremy Tache. Good Lord. Iber Fluse didn't have a Jeremy Tache. Never, never had one. So how is Jimmy Butler doing with the Warriors? You, really good. Really good, yeah. Really good.

The offensive numbers are a little confusing, but defensively, it's there. Okay, make a note. He's taking pressure off Steph. So the big thing is just the attention he draws and the balls he draws makes life easier for everybody else, even though his shooting numbers aren't so great, but also as Mike said defensively,

he's like another Draymond for them, so they've got a lot more flexibility. And they've been winning. I'm just getting caught up slowly, I don't wanna derail the conversation. Everyone said I have a couple questions every here and there. It's okay, Dan, it's just clip notes.

We got Butler covered though, right? You're not gonna ask about that again. They won nine of their last ten games. I got Butler. Eight of their last ten games, excuse me. So really good. For sure. I would actually like to hear Mike and Jeremy

genuinely care about being on different sides of this argument. I'd like to hear from both of you. One at a time. Do not just shout him out of the room, Mike. I've got, watch last night. Watch Derry Rosier, the defense rest. No, I didn't. I watched the, I mean,'ve got my watch last night. Watch Terry Rose here. The defense rest.

No, I didn't. I watched the, I mean, I can't keep having a conversation with a person who's going to talk to me like, I don't know what I'm talking about. I've watched every game in those two and a half years that he hasn't watched. So the box score though.

Dan, is this what you feel like with Stugats? Is this it? Do I finally understand what you're, whoa. No, the defense rest. Can't get word in edgewise. Is this it? Do I finally understand what you're, whoa. Not the defense for us. Can't get word in edgewise. Why would I even argue? Why would I even argue? Yes, I would maintain that I know more about the Miami Heat

than someone that actually watches them every day because I've been right every step of the way. Everything that I said was going to be bad turned out to be bad while you were there at every corner telling me no, it was actually gonna be good. out to be bad while you were there at every corner telling me no It was actually gonna be good imagine watching them every day and then being that wrong It was good. I don't understand whatever You're transitioning from one era to the next you're having one season played 500 basketball, and it's the end of the world

Who would they be taking for world Cooper? They're not taking in their last What would they be tanking for? Cooper? They're not tanking. In their last five games, they're three and two, and they've combined, I believe, to lose by nine points to the number one in 3C in their conference. And last night was on the road without five of their players.

They're a mediocre team. Terry Rozier has played horrendous basketball. He's been really, really bad. And that trade of Kyle Lowry in a pick to get him nightmare of a deal so what what at the time it was the right move there's a copy you wanted Kyle Lowry shot into the Sun yes and I was right there too Phoenix or there's a I'm trying to get you that's where Jimmy wanted to go Jimmy wanted to go to Phoenix originally. He ended up in Golden State.

Jimmy wanted to go to the Suns. Mike wanted Kyle Lowry to go shot in the Sun. Yeah, that's right. That was a joke he was making. Man, I came in today feeling so calm and relaxed. It's OK. I just want a caveat about the whole tanking, no tanking. So their first round pick goes to Dan, guess where?

Oklahoma City. Exactly right. It goes to Oklahoma City if it is outside of the top 16. That's usually a good guess. So technically, there is a path for the Heat to keep their first round pick and make the playoffs. It would have to be as a play-in team. So being the sixth seed for them, actually bad.

Being seventh or eighth is the best case scenario for the Miami Heat. Three and two sounds like it's along those lines. Question, why did they take away the ice cream? If it was indeed ice cream. The nutritionist made that decision. That was not a Pat Riley decision. The nutritionist just took away the ice cream.

LeBron complained about it. They brought back the ice cream. Did they fire the nutritionist? They did not fire him. Still there? Got it. I don't know whether he's still there or not. That's a he. Okay, we narrowed it down.

We narrowed it down, okay. So good. So to the original point that. Actually, that's just my sexism shot. Shut up. To the original point that Pat Riley feels like he's under it and has to defend himself against this ice cream story.

No, no, wait, be clear on this. Hold on, be clear on this. I want to be clear on this, okay? Very clear on this. Pat Riley has clear on this okay very clear on this Pat Riley has not reached out about any of this I don't know how engaged with social media of any kind Pat Riley is but the people who care about Pat Riley and care about what he has built in Legion reached out to tell me that that story wasn't true the way that it was being presented because they are mad on behalf of pat riley that things get said that

aren't true this is something mickey aerson has had this complaint with the miami media and and the media in general for the entire time he's been owner he thinks that the miami media is unfair to the he thinks the media is filled with inaccuracies things that aren't true weight he thinks that finally he he he weight mickey aerson thinks that the local media that covers the Miami Heat is too inaccurate and too harsh? The media in general, just the media in general gets it wrong a lot. It's a frustration the Heat have had for a long time.

Yeah, I remember a very public instance where Mickey got involved and said that the media had it wrong. It was with Shams. When Shams said Jimmy Butler wanted out. Who was wrong there? Shams, the media, or Mickey and the Miami Heat? So I'm trying to, I wanna follow the inaccuracies of the unfair media to the Miami Heat.

If it's not on the local level, it's on the national level. Well, that was one big national media story that he got directly involved with. And factually, he was wrong. He went at the guy with the most journalistic integrity and the best accuracy record amongst the insiders. And he was wrong. That wasn't unfair. Shams was right. The Dan Levitard Show with StuGots is sponsored by BetterHelp. Who's in your support system?

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Don Lebatard! Teammates can't shoot from three, now they're gonna see a different Jimmy. Now he's just, just playin', nickel back in the locker room and- Stugats They'll play D and show threes As they chase the Nats for the sixth seed These five words in his head Scream, are we winning games yet?

This is the Don LeBathard Show with the Stugats Wait, who are we talking about? Jimmy Butler. Jimmy Butler didn't go out to anybody. No, we're talking about. No, I'm talking about Mickey. Because when Sean started reporting, Mickey and the Miami Heat and Pat Riley put out a press release, they were very aggressive in that this is not true.

Even Bernie Lee got involved, you know, playing both sides. Well, yeah, the, I don't know how, look, you're caught up. I'm getting there, not quite yet. Don't tell me what I am. The one public gripe that I know that Mickey took exception to about the media and its coverage being lies ended up being true, Jimmy Butler did want out. This is my opinion of every single franchise,

every single owner, every single GM, every single coach, every single player who complains about the media gets it wrong. Tough shit. Yeah. Tough shit. I like that take. You don't like it?

Create the narrative that works and you know what? Works a lot is winning. Well, to be fair by the way, I just put words in Mickey Harrison's mouth. I don't think anyone has heard him complain. Oh, I saw him on Twitter the way, I just put words in Mickey Erison's mouth. I don't think anyone has heard him complain publicly. Oh, I saw him on Twitter. No, he was complaining. Okay.

He was upset about the Shams report. Okay, so, no, but I'm just saying in general over the last 25 years when I tell you that Mickey Erison's gripe is complaining about media inaccuracies, I don't know that anyone has heard him say that in his voice publicly. No, he's got a Twitter account. Like he's spoken for himself on this front and it ended up being wrong. Now he may turn around and argue, well, at the time I was right, but you went at the guy that once reported

Trump had COVID before anybody else. Well, they're, they're, they're, so, so psycho. So that people like just understand since Hawk is asking. So, so whatever it is to have a poisonous work culture, you guys help me here because you guys have worked in professional sports. But I will tell you that the relief in that building that Jimmy Butler's gone, not just because of what's happened

over the last couple of months, but because of how things were bent to him. And if you talk to enough heat people you will know that they felt like they were dealing with something and they were not saying this publicly in any way an unstable ingredient that they used as a furnace and fuel to get to the championship and then when it became about money problems nobody wanted to be at work like nobody wanted to be at work. Like nobody wanted to be at work around this person who was an unstable element.

As I understand it, even when they were cooking, that was the case. This is long before even the recent mess of stuff. Just a bunch of, look, I don't know. How do you guys, let me just ask you guys, I want to know how I can do any of this stuff responsibly. This stuff that I'm about to do when Kevin Love is talking to you about panic attacks Or when DeMar DeRozan is talking to you about depression. These are places where people are dealing with mental stuff That's difficult and they're volunteering it to you How will you guys recognize outside of Antonio Brown and some stuff when one of these ingredients? recognize outside of antonio brown and some stuff when one of these ingredients that could you that in that is burned through this furnace of sports has

become what it is and if you ask that person hey should you get some help here just like some help it's not an insult it's just can you get some help can you get some help in a place that that that like how do you how do you navigate that conversation privately how do you navigate that conversation privately how do you navigate it publicly if somebody doesn't actually want to have it with you you're you're you're a little vague here then what exactly are you talking about i am talking about whatever difficulties are presented by jimmy butler in private that will never have any idea about because you've got one of the most

private organizations in sports and they cannot and they certainly can't do it now because it would be smearing, but for somebody to tell the real story with all the details that would make it known what it's like to ride the furnace of Jimmy Butler in Chicago and Minnesota and in Miami without it being a protection

or both a defense of the Miami Heat and a smear of Jimmy Butler. How do you walk that line? You're reminding me of something where I think Mickey Harrison has a point because after the trade, was it in the athletic, the very pro Jimmy Butler kind of spin POV on what went wrong in Miami that I thought was very unfair, invoking his father, having known behind the scenes exactly where the Miami Heat organization met Jimmy on

those things. I think that's right for Mickey to have a gripe with how that was presented. Let's just make it this way, okay? Let's just do it this way. Hey, Jimmy Butler's grieving. A person who may or may not be introspective about this, Jimmy Butler is grieving. How do we handle that as an organization? Just make it that simple. Don't even make it any more complicated where the combustible stuff is just Jimmy Butler's a little broken how do we tell him to go get help or go talk to somebody about what he's going through how do we how do we assist that person I don't know if that's the organization's place to do that I think I think you say hey we're here for you whatever you need

hey whatever resources you need you could talk to hey, I've been through the same thing. I don't know. What if it means not working all the time? I'm just saying, like, look, man. What if it's a convenient thing to hang on to? I mean, I don't know. For Jimmy Butler's camp, because I, Miami Heat were very considerate of Jimmy

when he was going through that and well after. This is something that is dragged on and was once again invoked when this thing happened a while ago. I mean I don't want to minimize anything because people go through things really and obviously we've all you know have had our own struggles and moments of you know mental health situations because life is hard it's hard for everybody but I would say if I'm the organization I can't tell them exactly how to handle those situations

because I'm not an organization, they are. And this is not their first time going through that with all the history of dealing with athletes, but it does come along with the territory. And I would say the same thing to athletes. Like for any player that has to go through certain mental health situations, yes, that is a tough thing.

That doesn't mean it's not valid, but to play in this game, it comes along with the territory. The same with the media and accuracies. This is where we are in life, Pat Riley or whoever, because this is a part of it. The same time they'll love you when you're winning championships,

you'll get the other side. And if a player is going through it, much like any injury history or anything, you have to navigate that That's not an excuse If I may this this may be a crude view on it But the things that we're focusing on right now as a result of that piece that was very slanted in the direction of Jimmy Butler That's what you brought on by

Putting your your backups against the wall and saying this is not true, we're gonna keep Jimmy Butler. This was, all of this mess is what you brought on yourself by not capitulating on the Jimmy Butler thing when you probably should have a year ago or over the summer when he was saying purple and gold looks good or when the Shams report came out. At every turn, Miami was sovereign and said no,

and at every turn they made the wrong move. Okay, and let's do it this way now. Let's make it human and take some of the pieces out on some of the details here, okay? The entire Miami media and the Miami Heat protected Jimmy Butler's privacy when his father died, protected how Jimmy Butler needed to be in and out of games, did a bunch of stuff for Jimmy Butler that they usually don't do, and did a lot of stuff over the time jimmy butler was here in five years to serve his needs but in this one where the relationship breaks apart what does the organization think it's old from its relationship with jimmy butler when it

holds his hand through that situation what does it think it is buying in the relationship so that when riley and butler meaning in the meeting in this was in that athletic pieces well you get this information that it was leaked the pat riley was crying to jimmy butler crying to jimmy butler trying to connect in places where the it the where the father where the relationship with the father is gone around grief and then it was used to smear jimmy butler and then after that both sides are accusing of the other of your unhinged your unhinged and i'm legitimately asking you where feelings reside you guys are just on

this tough stuff where it's like doesn't matter that the media is getting everything inaccurate doesn't matter that you're grieving and that your dad died doesn't matter that you're just suffering and broken and think you need more from the uh... than it's giving you. That relationship broke apart at the end with Jimmy Butler mocking that Pat Riley was crying about the death of the father stuff. Like that's where that broke it.

That's the last stain on that relationship. That was the punctuation. I think, I think we're overanalyzing. Sorry. I mean, I like what we're talking about right now is the joker, Jimmy walking away from the hospital that's blowing up behind him. Like, he makes a mess when he wants to get his way out. He got his way and Miami is still dealing with the mess.

All of this can be summed up with, as Jeremy and I said a month ago now, if they had paid Jimmy when he said, I need to get paid, would we be talking about any of this? No That's it. No, but if they also when they made the decision that they weren't gonna paid Jimmy I think they'd moved them if they had moved them there and either or right either or hold on a second but then but then it really boils down to that all this other stuff is Window dressing you can boil it down to that

But even if he plays and gets his money, they're still not good enough. My point from last night's game is, hey, Cleveland's better, and they would've been better with Jimmy, and the Knicks, kinda better now. But Danny. Like, whatever it is. Danny, you went around about story about people crying

and fathers dying and therapy and all those things. He did that. He did that to me by bringing up Jimmy Butler again. I literally have no idea whose father died. So the idea that I said it doesn't matter. Everybody's father died. Everybody's father died. Jimmy's father died.

My father passed as well. But I don't know who's crying about who's dad in this damn situation. I'm gonna read the athletic article. I will get around to it, but I'm just trying to figure out. Also, with those connections being made, and I get like, it feels like from the lack of information I do have,

that you're saying that whenever a team or an executive or if it's Pat Riley, he makes these concessions that he never makes with a player in an effort to connect like where is the loyalty or the return of? That grace in these situations, correct? I'm saying that I'm guessing that Pat Riley expected a return of the grace and and didn't get it And I would say would he be giving the grace if Jimmy Butler wasn't as good of a basketball player as he is Oh, but this is the poison of being in charge all your life. The amount of ego that must be on Pat Riley making all of the decisions for 50 years. Like, I just, you think Belichick and Brady had a disconnect

on where player and management meet. Like, Pat Riley, when I'm describing to you, I've had three people in sports show me up close what real sports excellence looks like. It's Ricky Williams, it's sports excellence looks like it's Ricky Williams it's Jimmy Johnson and it's Pat Riley. Jimmy Johnson didn't actually show me he wasn't introspective enough it was the people around him who showed me what it is that it took to be Jimmy Johnson's kind of excellent but he got

out at 50 because all of this shit was too hard and he didn't like who it who who it made him. This person is 78 and has no legitimate reason to do this. Give me all the 78 year old leaders who are still doing this in sports at the top of the food chain in sports. Give me all the 78 year olds who are still allowed to be in charge. That's a great point.

I'm just trying to get a clear idea of the gambit. In the history of South Florida sports, three people showed you what greatness was? In sports. Like let me see the insides of it. Okay, because of your relationships there. That's right. I'm not talking about Dwayne Wade or no. Because I was going to say Dwayne. No, no. I'm not talking about Dwayne LeBron Shack. No, I'm talking about getting to see the insides of how these things are made and what it does to your family to be at the center of like the

furnace it was too much for jimmy johnson pat riley stayed there thirty years later and his stick and is now trying to make it work with terry rosier and i'm asking you guys as we walk through all of this how's this gonna end because suppose having a bad year suppose having like bad year suppose

having like the the hit they've taken on where it is that Jimmy walks out the door and he takes the culture with him like he goes nine and one he takes the culture with him the way LeBron took the culture with him I know the way that I want it to end as someone that's been critical of their approach over the last couple years even coming off of the NBA finals, which feels like a crazy outlier, it ends however Pat wants it to end. He made this franchise relevant. He's won three titles.

This is probably, this isn't that bad. They're still in the mix for a possible playoff spot. And I would say in terms of like a vibe check, this is probably the worst it's ever been. And that includes the year that they were tanking for Beasley or Derrick Rose. It's really bad right now, but he deserves all the time that he wants to get it right and if he decides that he wants to bow out gracefully he's entitled to that too. There is no one here on this

show and I don't even think it's a real good faith argument on the internet. You may find like an egg or two on social media but I think South Florida is pretty much a consensus opinion that Pat Riley gets to write the end of his story However, he sees fit the organization is in a weird place right now Because they didn't get the ending that everyone would have wanted with Jimmy whether that was a championship or whether that was moving on before having to have the ugly divorce But Riley put himself now in a position, with that trade or not, whether the rest of this season is any good or not

is a separate question. But he has one more opportunity this off season to leave the team retooled or see through one more build of this, however he wants to go about it. But they're not in shambles as an organization, they're not even in shambles as a team outside of their health at the moment. Yeah, Dan, this is cyclical right? There's no team that gets to be consistently awesome every single year. This is how this thing works. You're going to have down years right?

If we look at what is the, what are we looking at? Are we looking at a snapshot? Are we looking at a calendar? Are we looking at an almanac right if we're looking at a snapshot? Yes, the heat are down the Knicks are up if I give you the last five years I'm not even like along them five years. I Think we can agree that the heat have had a better five years Oh, but I'm looking at the next five years like I'm looking at half of that That's my point Mike Ryan's been telling you for two years. He's been telling you and we've watched this happen It's pretty rare for it to happen this way in the bubble. We saw Boston and Miami men at the rim

Tatum was blocked by out of bio. These were equals This is the they somehow were equals they and then Boston just passed them in a way that right now Leaves them in a place. We have not seen in fifteen years in this market i would say that talent-wise they were never equals they were always and i said this in everybody got mad i said great point their way more talented in the heat the heat when because their discipline because the execute because they have they get people who fit the way they want to play better than any other

organization in the league and they were able to extract value out of, we do it right more often than you do it. And you guys are talented, but you'll wilt under the pressures. Now what Boston did over time was, A, their talent just got stronger mentally. They took the lessons from it. They had to change the dynamic of their team. They made changes in, like I always call it the margins. They made little changes here and there, but also Tatum and Brown got better.

They've already, more talented players, got even more talented because they got more mentally talented at this. And it should be noted, this was five years ago. This isn't like, I know we're microwaving some of the discussions that we've had since then, but it's been a while. So when you talk about the Miami Heat,

first and foremost, the day Jimmy Butler got here, when all you guys are like, what's Jimmy Butler? And I'm like, this guy's a superstar, right? I also told you the reason you get Jimmy Butler's, A, he's a superstar, and B, he makes it so that the next superstar's like, okay, I'll come play over there because now you already got one.

They never got that next one. They never got that next one. They never got the next one. So if you wanna sit here and adjudicate how everything happened is because it was always an incomplete grade. It was always, there's still one more submission that never happened. Not due to any lack of effort by them.

They tried to get Donovan Mitchell. They tried to get Damien Lillard. They tried to get Kevin Durant but guess what none of these teams are beholden to helping you so I hate when when Mike was like these guys can't land anybody dog it's not up to them it's not like there's a free agent visit and they said I'm going over here okay that one you can drop the ball yeah but when you're talking about acquiring someone a superstar by a trade you are dealing with the superstar you're dealing with by a trade, you are dealing with the superstar,

you're dealing with the other team, and you're dealing with every other team that's offering things that you may not have. Totally understood. Like a zillion draft picks. Totally understood. So Mike, while you're right in saying, hey, this team isn't talented enough, Dan, you are also right in saying, hey, they're trying everything. But when you ask how it happened, it's because this is the NBA the Lakers were down and then they got

Luca Donci said guess what we think they're gonna be great for the next 10 years the Dallas Marvins took the vials and guess what they did some dumb and now it might be a while right the Knicks were awful forever and then dude think about how crazy it is they signed Dallas's backup guard and that turned into the greatest bet ever right both in how much they put down and how much they received crazy it is. They signed Dallas's backup guard and that turned into the greatest bet ever, right? Both in how much they put down and how much they received. That's another name that could have been invoked around Miami. I think this is just the longest stretch of time and since they acquired Jimmy Butler, which was

majestic, they acquired Jimmy Butler with no room and no real assets and it was an amazing coup in getting Jimmy Butler. Ever since that acquisition, the blueprint has always counted on getting someone better than Jimmy. So Dan, I'll give you a great example. The Golden State Warriors went to the playoffs in 1994 with Chris Weber, who was this incredible talent, number one overall pick.

Everyone was like, oh, Chris Weber is gonna be dynamic. They go to the playoffs, they give a good run against the Suns lose chris ever says i want to be anymore gets traded and then from nineteen ninety four took two thousand and thirteen they made the playoffs one time they were a laughing stock they were awful what happened in that stretch other than the we believe warriors in two thousand and i did drafted a guy named step curry at the same time the phoenix sons who had been

pretty successful by metrics gone to the conference finals and fifty wing seasons and all this stuff and at that time i'm working there and we were a team that been competing for a championship and we were ready to trade a maris stout amara for steph curry the lowest of the low had the draft pick were where they wanted to be i want that guy and guess what don nelson changed his mind and in changing his mind

and change the course of history for so many people the sons have one more good year and then went into their own long-ass drought i don't know that i know that that was a marry for steph was a thing that was that that was the deal all a lot with star started it started the fed way before they even had the we've got a draft it's not what's up for the sold junior davidson obviously steph curry's gets there and then book

a little but a few moments later we get a dynasty it happens that quickly then to look around and say well how are these guys passing us what because they have the talent that's going to take them to the next the next era whatever this is

and at the current moment the miami heat don't but that's how basketball works sometimes you got it sometimes you don't so i'm i'm good on the Jimmy Butler situation. Organizationally, I know it was turmoil when Jimmy was with the Heat. How do the Warriors feel about Jimmy being there? They love him. Like fan base?

They love him because, because, update. He's, no, because Jimmy Butler only has one problem with every organization. He wants to write a note. He's got notes here. The professional.

Wait, can we just cover, I'd like all his notes here. I feel like he's caught up. We can put a bow on the segment. Well, he asked a question. But check back when his contract's expiring. Yep. That's it.

So that's another good point. Because that's a casual basketball fan. There's only a couple moments that I hear about Jimmy Butler. And that is when he's making runs in the playoffs. And or something crazy. That's it. Going on organization.

And this is like every three to four to five years. And so when I hear that Pat Riley feels a certain way about Jimmy Butler and how it ended, it sounds a little crazy to the casual who is like, you took in a pet bobcat and you're now upset that he bit your daughter? That feels weird to me. To close the loop, whatever happened to the FBI investigation

with Terry Rozier, did that just go away? Like what happened to that? Cause we can still get that in. They just admitted last night's game in evidence. I was gonna say that. The Dan Levitard Show with Stu Gotz is sponsored by BetterHelp. Who's in your support system

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