The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Local Hour: The Clown Shows

Episode Date: October 24, 2025

"We talked about this." Lionel Messi signing an extension shouldn't happen quietly, the Canes shouldn't be playing games quietly, and the Dolphins should just be quiet. Also, Amin is clearly holding Meadowlark Media up on his shoulders. Today's cast: Dan, Amin, Chris, Jeremy, Mike, Roy, and Tony. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Shadow show Shadow show shadow show Shadow show Shadow show shadow show shadow show shadow show shadow show shadow show shadow show shadowing it shadowing it I mean I need as an advisor friend you know professional front office leader person I need your help here in getting through some of the thicket of what it is managing these people is because I have a problem with today's show and you're holding metal arc on your shoulders,

flying back and forth to New York, doing real journalism, covering real things as, you know, the FBI is calling Pablo before they call other people. And what I have happening here is I come in with genuine sports enthusiasm. him, wanting to talk about what Aaron Gordon did last night. And Mike won't look up from his phone because he's like, Marchand almost had a hat trick last night. And Tony's like, you're going to have to explain what that means to me. And so Tony badly wants to talk about what Aaron Gordon did last night as like the fourth story in basketball last night. And Mike wants to talk about the champion Panthers, and you know how Mike can be.

I do I'm familiar And so what do I do But in his defense Mike's a basketball guy again He's back Did you not hear the story I just told you? No I watched one of the games last thing

You're asking a lot for that late game Oh that late game Steph Curry vintage Why back the clock? I saw 10 of 11 that's very impressive I said Steph Curry No no no I saw the I'm talking about the game

I watched the finals rematch I was on the Siakum over on points Cash for daddy He's back He's back You know who Aaron Gordon tied With 10 3-pointers

For the most in a season opener In NBA history They get the stat out on Is it Steph? Got to be a heat player Oh, is it a heat player It must be Okay, let's think about this

Oh wait, that's right This is great I think it's Tyler Hero No No No Getting close Getting warmer

Is someone in Detroit now No And not Duncan Robinson No I mean I don't know where they're going to send him A meme Terry Rosier

Wow. I mean, your judgment continues to be terrible. Why? Because you say Mike's back in, and I just told you the story of me and Tony are saying, did you see what Aaron Gordon did last night? And Mike's like, Marchand almost had a hat trick, never looked up from his phone. Wait, I got to be. Let me tell you something.

Your judgment is terrible because I told you Mike's a basketball guy. And then, you know what broke out after that? A basketball conversation that Mike was in fantastic. So to lead is to manipulate them, to trick them? Yes. Yes. You know who's the president? of the United States? Yes.

This is exactly how you lead. I have thoughts. This is the Dan Levator show with the Stucat's podcast. Basketball. Basketball. Basketball is back, jack. Time for our favorite winter sport. The summertime is over, so let's head down to the court.

Time for the chairball. Give me fast breaks on the attack. Will you shoot a three or take it to the rack? Basketball is backjack. It's a dream shake down in the post. Or a killer cross you love the most. When the offense tries to run and gun, is it man-to-man or box-in-war?

It's big plays and talking smack That's how you know that basketball is backjack Let me hear you say Basketball Basketball Basketball is back jacks 360 dunks and pick and rows And we're gonna watch it every day

Till they raise the larry-oh Heart files and hook shots A dagger three and hacka shacks If you say this game's the best I'll say the gags Basketball is back jacks Basketball is back jack Basketball is back

Back I really can't I can't begin to tell you guys how happy those opens make me because of how happy your father is of us trafficking on the last embers of his singing career by wheeling him around the way they did Ozzy Osbourne at the end and I think everyone's no it's it's absolutely right guys just like watch the first one listen to the quality of his voice he ages five years every time we bring something. back jack he put it on the poll at lebitard show does greg cody age five years every time we bring something back jack because we're now wheeling him around like azie osborne that's not up for dispute i saw axel rose do this and it made me sad guns and roses i think did they open the sphere no they but they opened a place in Vegas and they wheeled out axel rose yeah because he couldn't walk i i think he was coming off some sort of leg injury but he was in a throne but it was still a wheelchair that just moved around the stage as a throne.

Dave Ruhl then later used the same exact throne after he fell off the stage and still played. Rock and roll, man. If you think your dad would be down, the vanity is such that if he were on his legitimate deathbed, he'd do a backjack for us? Yes. Like, I found my religion again.

My religion is backjack. He's already talked about me and Yeti doing the first Greg Cody show after he passes because of all the downloads it would get. Well, you should do it the way he wants you to do it. Make sure that you're producing that show now, he's left it in very poor hands when it comes to things four months from now. Damn.

Look, he's got a bigger job here that he's got to take care of. His dad runs him around as if he's still an intern. Like, his dad, his dad thinks that Chris works for him, and I don't think he's paying him very much. Like, whatever he's paying him is not what we're paying him around here to concentrate on a bigger job. I didn't say damn about Chris. It's a damn about Greg Cody dying four months or now, apparently.

Have you not seen the aging process with every backjack? He's got like two more before he turns the dust. Let's space these out then. He's been coughing for 10 years. He's been warning us as a siren and alarm on mortality for 10 years. And now we're just wheeling him around. I want to get to a story here that should be internationally giant. We shouldn't skip past over Lionel Messi signing the extension that ends his career here ostensibly.

It's sheer lunacy that that's happening that shouldn't and can't happen quietly even if it's behind a paywall. The University of Miami shouldn't be playing games quietly. The Dolphins need to be more quiet because Tyree Kill is now, no, I'm not even kidding you. Tyree Kill is now talking on behalf of the dolphins and the dolphins, never mind in this market, the dolphins are the first team I've seen in my lifetime that when a season implodes like this, the fan base turns around and says of all three of their lead voices, please shut up. please stop talking. You're making everything much worse than it already is when the standings are plenty bad.

And the clips I've heard of Tyreek Hill, it's just kind of like nonsense, where he's actually the least of our problems at this exact moment. Like it's actually McDaniel and Tua are worse, which the last few years, Tyreek's been the leader there. He's still, you don't want to hear Tariq, but he's now, like he's backseat. Tua's driving. I cannot tell you how absurd it is for me, okay? at no point covering the dolphins in my lifetime.

Have I ever had the following set of details to present to you guys? Tyreek Hill had a popular podcast, realized that's pretty hard, said silly things. Talked more here as a star than he ever did in Kansas City. Kansas City did not let him talk because it is unwise to have it microphones, someone who's likely to get in trouble or say the wrong thing when he speaks. I do not want to call Tyreek Hill dumb. You will not hear me do that to athletes very often. They can do a singular thing so well that it.

requires great intellect to do it and I'm not expecting my wide receivers to be able to read Tolstoy but there's a reason the chiefs did not let this person talk as a voice for your team you have to be careful the dolphins now have three people one of them is on that the sentence I didn't think I was going to be saying he's on the podcast of Tehran Armstead I did not know he had a podcast he no longer plays for the dolphins they can use him he's the only line when they've had in 20 years who could block for them rarely speaks in public was a famously bad interview. They could use a player like that.

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We Live for Live Streaming now Don Lebertard Again started on the Breakfast Flon Oh man I've been singing a song to myself All morning long Breakfast Flan Stugats

Have you never heard the Breakfast Flown song No hit me with it Okay I wish I had some breakfast flan Breakfast Flon Where can I find a breakfast like that This is the Dan Levitar show with the Stugat. They're fine at left tackle.

Okay, you're right. Paul. Paul is fine. That guy they got Paul. It's not his blindside, though. Again, you need a right tackle that makes sense. If we had Armstead, maybe Paul could be on the right. Is Paul his first name or his last name?

That's right. That's the joke. I mean, and we're going to need you to keep up no matter how much you're flying back and forth. Minor penalty, two minutes. Delay a show. If you've been here yesterday,

if you've been here following the show, you would know what that Paul joke is. You can't ask us to repeat a joke for you because you're too busy carrying Metal Arc in New York. What's the point? You're just going to accept the penalty? I can't explain what the joke I was doing. It's a layered joke.

So the penalty should be on me? You're the one? We can all go into the penalty box, me, and you can carry us. It's all right. I was hoping that we were going to lapse into a bit where you guys are saying it's the right guard, not the left guard. Well, no, because I think the right quarterback is about to leave. He's done left. We could have done a whole bit there on who the blind side is for the next quarterback,

because you've got three dolphins no one wants to hear from. It's fairly amazing. I mean, they were nine and two recently at the end of a season. and no it's not just losing it's i don't want to hear from these people all of you just shut up do not speak on behalf of this team you're making nothing better close it down censor the media make it cuba yeah no i i harken back to the days that i was a browns fan i was afraid anytime i would see a headline that says obj says or obj's dad it's just because it's you know it's not going to help it would it won't help so anytime tyreek hill will speak it won't help

Tool will never help. Mike McDaniel will never inspire confidence. With every loss and media availability, you're just more and more sure. You need to fumigate the place and start over. It's crazy, though, right? Because I've said that I really don't have precedent in this market. It's not prisoner of the moment. It's just someone who's lived in this town caring about this team.

I've told you guys the stories. My father sent me to school in fourth grade. I had all of the signatures on one sheet of paper of all the undefeated 1972 dolphins. All of the signatures looked like my dad's. Every one of those dolphins that I went to school with showing the other kids about my favorite team that I had on a piece of paper were the 1972 dolphins, all of them, signatures forged by my father, all of the signatures identical and simply the names of the players. That's a good dad. It's a good dad. So my allegiance.

What are you going to do cross-reference with the internet? He got your head. My allegiance to this team begins with my first memory with my father, walking through an Orange Bowl to a Dolphins game, and I just remember the feeling of my small hand in his, and it felt like Disney World, because our life is very small. Just with more urine. With bad urinal cakes, and it just felt like I love sports instantaneously.

It's this team, this team. And in my life watching it, I've never seen this, where you dared to hope 20 years you've been failing you're the laughing stock of the league the lions are no longer that the bills are no longer that only for the Jets

are people not laughing at you more but the Jets only have Woody Johnson going in front of the microphone and saying the things that he shouldn't say maybe Aaron Glenn I'm sure Jets fans are tired of hearing him he said a couple of weeks ago I'm not making a quarterback change

what's the matter with you the owner forces him to make a quarterback change because when you're led poorly, this is what it looks like. It looks like what the Patriots are now, two years of down. This is 20 years. Bill's won 17 years without a playoff win. Dolphins are going on a damn century. I've never seen this.

It's the worst it's ever been. They're going on a century. Well, they're a quarter of the way there, Dan, to be honest. The last time they won a playoff game, it was not televised locally. It was 2001. It was Lamar Smith. It is a generation ago, almost two. It's almost two generations of failed leadership.

It was so long ago people were huddled around a radio. We have seen failure in this market. It's never looked like this, where you look around after daring to believe again, well, they got the number one offense in the league. It feels like Marino again. Two, everyone's gone. Get everyone out of here. What do they have to trade?

I see on trade deadline shows. Jalen Phillips might be a valuable piece. They've got nothing to build around either. There's like no hope here. When you say fumigate, kill everything. Put an extermination tent, like a termite tent over the facility. Wipe it out, fresh coat of paint, get everyone out of here. Start over and hope you got a couple of Terry Rosiers that give you salary cap relief.

Damn. Damn, Dan. And that concludes Dolphins talk. Oh, geez. We can't add to that. I stepped out for two minutes. Dan killed the whole franchise. They're going to go another 75 years without winning a playoff game.

They kill everything and hope you have a couple of Terry Rosiers. Look, you guys can make fun of me this century and the tick of it. It's crazy to say in a league that legislates equality, 25 years, nothing. Nothing to show for it. Can't block anybody. Don't have an offensive lineman except for Paul. 20 years of draft picks. Chris Greer went through a billion dollars, 21 first and second round picks.

Like, that's you throwing up lottery tickets and all that rains down on you in the end is a mountain of shit from a fighter pilot AI. The president of the United States has put over protesters. They remain that guy as soon. They should have the poop emoji on their helmets. It's never been this. Like, Cam Cameron, one in 15, it's never... That was pretty bad. And you never wanted to hear Cam Cameron talk.

You want to talk about someone not inspiring confidence. It's not. For a franchise that has done this so often You guys are pretty hyperbolic It's been really bad around this With nothing to build around, no building blocks But it got good a couple years ago And we thought we'd gotten away from that

Fact, if anything, these guys represent The best of the different regimes Of this dolphin century Guys, are the dolphins the Knicks of the NFL? Like, you guys are still holding on to some shit that happened in the 70s? And like there's this birth, right of and then you were good for a little bit

and you're getting your hopes up now like we've got to do this and now it's like reality is sinking. These three people gave us reason to hope. The three of them we thought McDaniel knew more than others. We saw that Tyreek Hill is faster than others and we saw that combination could score 18 times with Roy Hayme Mostert

with a disposable running back. If you gave Mike McDaniel Tyreek Hill you'd make to the best passer in the league statistically. And the Bill's close with Skyler Thompson is essentially. eventually firing off the confetti from Madison Square Garden's bleachers to celebrate we got gentlemen swept. Is Tua the Jeremy Lynn of the NFL?

That's pretty good. Got a coach that put him in a system that really fit him and everyone's like, oh, he's unsolvable. I mean, that's a pretty good comp when you think of the all of it, right? Tua is an idiot, though. Well, okay, don't do that. Jeremy Lynn went to Harvard. This is... Alabama's the Harvard in the South.

Tua sounds very, very smart. Uh, the only thing I don't want to do to these people is call them idiots when we've been saying far different things. Little have a hand in my means. Displaying the behavior of an idiot. Well, okay, let's do this if you guys want to do it, because I want to get to the story that Amin is immersed in because Terry Rozier locally has found himself. We're now getting the dirty innards and the details that I think the audience is going to find interesting that advances this story beyond yesterday. also Tua and Jeremy Lynn both culturally appropriated having their hair braided things to ponder I think he's T.J. Warren. But then the file. Tua might be bubble T.J. Warren. Oh, wow. So you're

shortening the window. Everything's got to be perfect. But he's doing NICs. See, the NICs were still good, though, 90 to 2000. The days I'm talking about are before, like the before. It's the end of Marino, correct. It's 96. It's 97. It's Marino's career. This is the starting point. When you think of good organizations and look at what Pittsburgh has, it's one of the most amazing stats in sports, three coaches ever. Three coaches ever on the Pittsburgh Steelers. And they all have won.

Okay. Don Shula, Jimmy Johnson goes out, loses 62 to 7. It's the end of Marino. And then Jimmy Johnson retires would have been the last time it felt like this, where it's like, oh, my God, they're so far behind. And now everything gets swept out. We don't have a quarterback. I want to look up the line for that Jags Dolphins game because everyone was on the Dolphins. I remember thinking, that's like the most wrong I've ever been about a game.

Jimmy Johnson, this was going to be Marino's last run. Jimmy Johnson won a road playoff game at Seattle, and that's the last time there was real hope around here. Marino looked good in it. Marino, the Patrick Ewing of the NFL? That's right. The Seahawks used to be in the AFC. That's how long ago this was. That's what I was going to ask.

You had the furthest teams that could ever be playing in a conference matchup. Tony, when I say a generation hasn't seen the dolphins be anything but shit, your earliest memories of the dolphins, start with them being shit. You've never known them to be good in your entire lifetime. They have not won anything. The Seahawks were in the AFC? How young are you? We're not that different in age.

Yeah, no, they played it at the kingdom. It was on carpet. The Brewers in the Ale. Do you guys know that? Astros are in the Anna. I may be conflating time periods. No, no. That's exactly how it happened.

We believed in Jimmy. Johnson, because he threw flutty flakes on the floor and stepped on him after beating flutie. And then Jimmy Johnson wins at Seattle. They come back. They lose to Jacksonville. Jimmy's heart wasn't in it like he was done. And so they had to start totally over.

But that's the last time the dolphins were any good. They then complained afterward. Wanstead took over because Jimmy said so. And they kept going 10 and 6. And then it all fell apart this way on Wanstead because he didn't have a quarterback. We thought that the combination of Hill and McDaniel would make to a good forever, like for his career. We were willing for him to risk brain injury.

We wanted him so badly to make sure that they were nine and two and led the league in passing. Because they dared to hope like that, they're now really furious with the team and its management. And say all of this is long overdue. They should have done it last offseason. They should have never, like everybody's going back and doing revisionist history on they never should have given these people anything as if they didn't have us hoping deeply 18 games ago. We went to Las Vegas because we thought the dolphins were going to be in the Super Bowl. Our whole show.

That was kind of ridiculous in hindsight. Now we think about it. We're like, huh. That wasn't that long ago. Is Cam Cameron's full name Cameron Cameron Cameron? Put it on the poll at Levitard show. Is Cam Cameron's full name Cameron Cameron Cameron? We need a thumb to go this direction.

It's Malcolm? Yeah, it's Malcolm. Malcam Cameron? Get all the way out of here. Are you sure? I don't think. think that's right, Roy. We talked about this.

I don't doubt Roy. Don't doubt Roy and stuff like this. No, no, he's right. I just looked it up. Malcolm Cameron. Shouldn't it have been calm Cameron? Calm Cameron, yeah. Put it on the poll.

Shouldn't it have been calm, Cameron? It's a hell of a question. We talked about this, Roy, is an amazing library you have in your head. I've done Doritos nine straight years, according to Chris Cody. You have, actually. That's how long you've been eating them, Roy? Once a year, you're like, what do you guys prefer? You think I've been to eat it?

in Doritos for just nine years? No, I think you've been eating just Doritos for nine years. Do we have white Malcolm's anymore? That's the first one I can even think of. I didn't. I'm just learning about this. I'm hearing this for the first time. The closest thing I can remember, Mike,

is Dr. Ian Malcolm. But that's the last name. Malcolm in the middle. There you go. Put it on the poll at Labartad Show. Did you know that Cam Cameron's first name was Malcolm? I believe that's going to be shocking to people, even though, as Roy said, we did talk about it 11 years ago.

We need a thumb to go this direction. That was pretty bad, that time period. We could do some nostalgia on the worst the dolphins have ever been if you think I'm being hyperbolic. This is, in terms of success, you can maybe say parcels because they did host a playoff game, and Chad Pennington had that year. But there were two playoff appearances from this regime. There have been, this is the life cycle of the Miami Dolphins in the 21st century. You have a regime takeover.

It putters around for about four to five years. You get excited at one point, and then you have to rebuild. And I think this dolphin regime is probably, arguably, the most successful. And that's why Dan thinks this is the worst, because the expectation was built because it was hope for the first time. It's not just, hey, we're pretty good. We're winning games. It's like, oh, shit, we have the best offense. And because of that expectation, where we are now, it's the delta.

You were above the water this much now. you blow the water. You trust these bad franchises at your own risk and when you deliver hope it's the intoxicant man. The Marlins have made money what little they make off of indifference for 25 years. They created hope.

We had been pretty hopeless. I'm sorry. I mean, I'm rewatching the highlights right now so that's why I didn't see that you were about to talk. I'm rewatching the highlights of that 2000 playoff game at the kingdom. Damarino. The last moment that we want to remember, 95-yard comeback drive to seal that game.

They held Ricky Waters to 2.1 yards per carry. Nice. Mike, I don't know if you remember this conversation we had. It was years ago the Brown's job was open and the Packer's job was open, I believe. And I remember telling you, you take the Packers job. You're like, what? The Browns are young and you got Miles Garrett and you've got

the great young quarterback Baker Mayfell. No, it's not because of the talent. It's because the organization. The organization has proven they'll never do anything right. as opposed to the Packers where it's like aging quarterback and all that. But like I know they have some sort of sense about them. And that's what reminds me of what Dan is saying right now about the Dolphins. It's like, it's the organization, man.

And the Browns hired Freddy Kitchens with that window. Do you guys understand, though, the very simple emotion in fans that are loudest and angriest today at the expense of the dolphins, that they wouldn't bother to be introspective enough to say, Of course, I'm lashing these people because they told me that you were a smarter coach than the others, that it doesn't matter who the linemen are. Most turtle have 18 touchdowns, and then you proved it. They told me you could fix the quarterback, and you were so delighted to have speed because Hill and Waddle were going to be everyone's fantasies players.

You told us that. You made us believe it. We hoped to be, and then you showed us. Oh, you are smart. you are with all of the pieces working perfectly together and everything at the perfect timing the most accurate quarterback you've ever seen

can lead the league in passing and then Rex Ryan says nerd boy get out of my league we're going to grind you to dust with our fake teeth but that was always the issue right his game was finesse and at some point the war of attrition in the NFL finesse does not play well this is a funny point you make

because I do want to talk about what I saw last night in terms of Justin Herbert and Carson Wenton when you talk about finesse and how the wheels come off the backup quarterback because you're getting him hit too much. He's on six teams in six years because that used to be a young man. That was MVP frontrunner.

That guy was the highest paid person in quarterbacking at one point and we watched what you've done to his body. It's awful and no one gets hit more than Herbert. No one in the league. They are crushing Herbert and he's being very good under very difficult circumstances. Have you ever seen someone

more pissed off to be injured than Carson Wentz? I was slack-jawed watching his reactions. That was uncharacteristic to say the least. That guy is so stoic. He was pissed off. He wants to be out there so badly and he wants to save the Vikings and get them to meaningful games and their future. He cares deeply. Again, six teams in six years. It's eaten up his body. He's super old now.

By the way, keep an eye on it. Okay. I don't know if we've said this on the show before. Kevin O'Connell's hiding J.J. McCarthy. He's hiding him. Did you see him jump over. Did you see him jump over when the player went to the sideline? He jumped over the guy. His ankle's fine. They're hiding him. Well, he's starting next week, I think. Better be. At the Nissan all in clearout, there's nothing more chill

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The Amino Ascent. This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugats. I want to talk about this game because what's happening at the quarterback position is funny. But I want to get to the story with Amin and with Terry Rosier. locally because we have new information and more information coming out. Brian Winhorst was talking about how the league caught this, how specific it was in pulling Roseir because they worked with the companies to get maximum information in a way that will show you how some of this stuff

on spools and where and how it is the NBA could or would or wouldn't cover things up in order to keep some of this bad stuff from being seen by the public. Here's Brian Windhorst telling you that basically the NBA felt like it was out ahead of the FBI. The sports books caught the irregular betting on Terry Rozier, the day it happened, the morning it happened, when all of a sudden there was hundreds of thousands of dollars coming in on Terry Rozier unders for a relatively meaningless game in November, I'm sorry, in March involving the Charlotte Hornets. the sports books caught it. They told the NBA right away, and guess what?

The NBA, Rozier didn't play the rest of the season, and he had faked the injury, so it wasn't because of the injury. The NBA pulled him. They pulled Jonte Porter, too, the sportsbooks protection measure. It triggered this. They caught it. The issue, I think, is, you know, Jonte Porter, they caught, convicted, and tossed him out of the league within weeks.

Rozier didn't. And in this investigation, and I don't know if Terry Rozier is guilty. The NBA obviously didn't feel that he was. they wouldn't have let him play. But this indictment implies that there was a swath of conspirators. There was, like, his cousin, his cousin's friend. I mean, all the way down to, like, low-level guys who won money on this bet. I spoke to league sources yesterday.

And one of the things they want to clarify is that they never cleared Terry Rozier. That was something that Shams Sharania, remember back in July, said he's been cleared. And it was like, well, no, first of all, the federal government definitely didn't clear him. but the NBA also didn't clear them either. They just reached a roadblock in the investigation where they couldn't investigate anymore. They don't have the tools available to the FBI and the federal government in terms of wiretaps

and stuff like that. So they just had to say, well, for now, we don't have anything. But they never closed it and they never left it alone. It's kind of pathetic. It's pathetic. So we're back on like, well, then that was a bad report by Shams? I mean, it was. So why didn't they say...

No one bats a thousand. Yeah, but the NBA could have said something. They let this be so. They let the narrative persist with their lead insider saying that they had cleared him when in actuality they hadn't, but they let that persist that the league didn't feel compelled to come out and say that's not the case. An extra detail that Barry Jackson reported yesterday after this video of Win Horse was a league spokesman tells me just now that the NBA did not.

bench Rozier late that season and he missed the rest of the season because of what what Rozier says was a foot injury. Kind of bullshit spin is that from the NBA? Honestly, like what? We hit a roadblock. We didn't want to announce the roadblock. We just let everybody else think that we cleared him. And so he got arrested in Orlando because he was a part of the active roster of the Miami

Heat because the NBA very quietly, super cute. They hit a roadblock and didn't tell anybody about it. And now they want to come back and say, no, no, no, we didn't clear him. We're not a circus. Yes, you are. Your answer for that is even more of a circus. This isn't the basketball mic that I know. A roadblock?

Wait, we cannot let them get away with this. Well, let's examine all of it because it's where I meant to start, and I got distracted by dolphins' talk, as will always happen to me in the emotional places. But Amin and Pablo are doing work, and this is a thicket of investigation. And what we've learned, at least in the case of what's been reported so far on Pablo Tori finds out about Kauai Leonard,

is it is possible that the NBA can go full clown show on some stuff that they don't have any precedent for dealing with. Like, what happens when you go to Terry Rozier and whoever his co-conspirators are and you're like, we're the NBA, here to investigate? Yeah, what power do you have over me telling you anything? I don't have, you're not the federal government. Pretty much. So, like, you realize, as we do, that they're going to make the rules up as they go along.

This is a new wild, wild west when you welcome some of this stuff into the neighborhood. I don't know what happened with Terry Rojee. But Amin and Pablo can be closer to the truth based on the reporting they've been doing that makes Amin fly back and forth from here to New York. So please catch us up with what you know, what's coming out on Pablo Tori finds out, and where it is that it is possible that we can then again reveal. Yeah, look, FBI, clown show. NBA, also clown show. Don't know how to do any of this. They've got a rogue player who doesn't have to live by your rules.

Federal government? Yeah, he don't care. Hornets. Hornets. I'm not, what? I'm here to cash my paychecks in Charlotte. Everyone knows I'm playing in the basement to get my 20-mill. Like, I'm one of the star players in Charlotte.

And the heater wanting to just pushed up by this hurricane that's around. Push that up to Charlotte. Don't bring any of that Rozier stink over here, arresting him to start our season in Orlando. Who was the person in charge of making sure that was a Hornets hoodie at the arraignment? That's savvy. Whoever said, hey, put this one on. That's savvy. that it happened when I was with the hornets? All right. Here you go. I mean, walk us through the

interesting details here because there's also this dirty underbelly in the other story. This is Billups in a poker game. And we couldn't have talked about this enough yesterday. Look, this part, like, wait a minute. What? Hall of Famer and coach in bed with the mafia and the big families? Like, okay, so what does he owe them? Like, that's a question that just mushroom clouds in the sky yesterday on an NBA coach. And we're getting caught in the thick of some of the details here because I'm telling you, the reporting is going to trail the feds, but Amin and Pablo are doing some reporting that is in the dirty places here where we can show you where this clown show will unravel. But in the underworld of poker, wherever it is that Chauncey Billups allegedly

may have thought he was getting over on the underworld, they know how to play poker. They're not starstruck by playing with Chauncy Billups. If a game is rigged, they will know it. And so I don't know, Chris, who is Matt Berkey? Is he a very famous poker? poker player? Yes, one of the most successful poker players in the world. And what is the podcast he's on when he is saying, yeah, everyone knew that the Chauncey Billups games were rigged. This knew it years ago. Knew it in 2018, 2019. This podcast was recorded in 2023. He's referring to five years earlier in this clip that came out in 2020. It's the only Friends podcast where he's talking about Billups. It was this game. It started in L.A.,

and then it came to Vegas for a few days, and it was all built around Chauncey Billups. And I had heard about the game, and the person who told me about it was like, look, I know the game runners, I'm telling you 100% this game is on the up and up. And I was like, well, I know a lot of the people that are involved, and I'm telling you 100% that it is not on the up and up. And, you know, we kind of went back and forth and I agreed that, like, I just wasn't going to go play it, but I had some friends who went and played it both in L.A. and in Vegas. it obviously, like, was for sure confirmed to be cheated. Like, people who clearly didn't even understand the rules of No Limit Hold'em are just, like, jamming hundreds of big blinds in with like a gutty and then just drilling it.

Only the pros are losing. That's not even well-matched, okay? If you know, and I'm not going to be a sophisticate when it comes to the poker world, but they know where the inefficiencies are and a pro would spot a rigged room very fast, like within a couple of plays. A gut shot straight draw, 100 big blinds is just like if I was at that game, I would

just be like, that guy's cheating. That's the most What he just explained is sort of the most amateur. Wouldn't even take a pro to recognize, wait a minute, that never happens. You clearly knew the cards that were coming. You don't know the rules. You don't know the rules. Wait a minute. This is not, so

this is the most amateur way. You have a feeling. That's like Austin Powers. I like to live dangerously. So now we make the crime families, what we make them. But all this was is basically, hey, we've got some people. They just want to be around Chauncey Billups. They want to say they played poker with Chauncey Billups. And you know what it's going to cost for an evening of poker

with Chauncey Billups? $200,000. Allegedly. I'm totally making up that number. But this sounds real amateur, and I'm sure Amin has facts that are less amateur than that. Yeah, I think first and foremost is

the idea that they called him a face card and the grand jury indictment which is basically what you said he plays in a game the marks come to play with him and then the game is rigged and

whether he gets compensated or not I don't know but the and I'm trying to be careful if I sound cautious because I don't No you should be look I'm all right so look you know some facts here let me be less flippant about this okay because I know it involves the mafia

the FBI and no matter how much those departments may have been diminished over the last few years of whatever the mythology of this is. This sounds like the dumbest version of this that is the most easily caught the way that I've seen the details presented, but you have more details than I do. And I don't think Chauncey Billups to be a fool, but what the FBI said yesterday in totally disgracing a Hall of Fame player and current coach, who makes a lot of money to be a current coach, they are saying that he was stealing money from people. So when you read through the grand jury indictments, first of all, there's two things going on.

Number one is they lumped a bunch of names together because I think the lay person, the lay sports fan, it's like, Charlie Billis was fixing NBA games. Like, no, no, no, no, there's different names involved in different alleged crimes. And those alleged crimes, the biggest name of all the defendants is Chauncey Billups. So if I'm trying to present, if I want to put on my Mark Ruffalo FBI Task Force jacket and get on TV and act tough and act like we're cracking down on this massive thing, obviously I want the biggest name there because if I tell people, hey, Terry Rozier may have thrown a game, people, again, the average layperson is who the F is Terry Rozier? Just more macro? Right. Can we clean one thing up, though?

because I understand that Chauncey Billups wasn't named in this, but there's a lot of circumstantial evidence that suggests he might be co-conspirator number eight, right, Jeremy? Yeah, Pablo pointed this out on Twitter yesterday after reading through the DOJ indictments, and the allegations here are really interesting because it says co-conspirator eight, an individual whose identity is known to the grand jury, was a resident of Oregon. He was a NBA player from approximately 1997 through 2014, and an NBA coach since at least 2021. On or about March 24th, 20203,

the Portland Trailblazers played the Chicago Bulls. Prior to the game, the Blazers record was 32 and 40, and the team was out of playoff contention. Blah, blah, blah. Prior to the game, Co-conspirator 8, told the defendant, Eric Ernest, that the Blazers were going to be tanking, intentionally losing to increase their odds of getting a better draft pick,

and ultimately their four highest scores did not play that day. So if you had to guess who that might be, even if Chauncey Billups wasn't involved in this story initially you'd be like man Chauncey Billis isn't trouble

so let's not be reckless about this and just frame it all on this is moving with moving details and I believe it to be purposeful that Billups and Rosier

are your names and they're your big names as the FBI puts on a show of we'll show you who's in charge the NBA doesn't run anything we're going

to make a show of look at the look at what we're going to do smoke out scandal and shame because it's a mushroom cloud and we know everyone will eat it up. Pablo and Amin and others are doing diligent work and I will urge you, Pablo Tori finds out over the next, soon, soon. Will there be a Pablo soon? Like, I'm assuming that I've got, I'm getting off the phone with you guys and, you know, you're making high level calls on things. So I don't, please be careful, but give people as much information as you can. Yes, to answer the question,

Yes, there's an episode of Pablo Tori finds out that's coming out. That's going to be a follow-up, a follow-up of what we did in July, by the way, where we first talked about not only Terry Rozier and Jonte Porter, Malik Beasley, but also some of the names named in this grand jury indictment were characters that we did deep dives on. For instance, Amar Awade, who was not only a guy who participated in these games, but according to the grand jury indictment also was involved in collecting some debts on behalf of people who lost at these games

and didn't pay up. And so July's episode of Pablo Tore finds out with myself, Pablo, and Tom was on that one as well. We go into a lot of detail, and it's a great listen, a primer, if you will, for what we're doing here. The next episode, me and Pablo, that comes out is going to be more in depth

on what's happening here. But the big thing here is these are all kind of, they're almost curated in terms of what exactly is all happening. And at the end of the day, what that means from the perspective of match fixing. That's the big sports story here, right? Where matches being fixed. To my mind, there's a difference between Jonte Porter saying, okay, I'm going to fake an injury in the first quarter and now I'll hit all my unders by doing that. versus the head coach of an NBA team saying, we're tanking.

So, yeah, I'm not playing any of my guys. That's a conversation. That second one is a conversation, I imagine, has happened a lot over decades in the NBA. Particularly when coaches know, hey, you guys are losing. I don't want, this ain't on me. I can't say this in a press conference. I can't say this out loud.

But with people that I would imagine to be, you know, friends or friendly with, I can say, yeah, man. Like, of course they're tanking. I'm not. But that's in, look, That can be alleged insider trading and then it becomes inside information. And Chauncey has to know the position he's in. You can't just tell your friends.

Of course, of course. But to my mind, there is a material difference in that and, okay, here's what's going to happen. Second quarter, I'm going to take a dive and I'm going to ride around. Like that's someone who is actively participating in match fixing versus the revelation of information that I don't think was based on gambling. It was based on the team strategy. Look, there's just a lot of information here, and I just want to be sure we don't put the baby cart before the horse.