The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Local Hour: The David Samson vs. Domonique Foxworth Local Hour

Episode Date: August 10, 2023

Pablo begins the show by calling out Domonique for how emotional he feels to be entrusted with Dan's show. Then, it's time for battle. David Samson is here to talk insider trading, sting operations, and suing season ticket holders and vendors before he and Domonique get into it over workplace compensation. Is it more important to foster a community your employees are motivated by or maximize profits? Can you do both? Plus, David reviews the new documentary on Stephen Curry. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're listening to Giraffe King's Network. This is the Dunlabel Tarshall with the Stugat's Podcast. I want to begin by pulling back the curtain on what Dominique Fox worth wanted to do to start the show today That he no longer wants to do to start the show today. Oh that yeah. Oh, yeah No curtains need to be pulled back. Dominique was emotional David Samson's here with us by the way as well. Hey David Oh, yeah, I got some I got some crit some critiques for you. Wait before we get to the critiques I'm trying to get back David David It's not first we're on the critiques. I'm trying to have David get back. It's not verse.

We're on the same team. Sure. It's not. I want him to get better. Anyway, go ahead. Before we get to that, I just want to point out the Dominique Fox worth was walking around downtown Miami last night and getting a little emotional. It's dangerous, by the way. Very dangerous. Yeah, it's actually I have lots of downtown Miami stories,

but that's another thing, because Pablo once embarrassed me instead. Please proceed. I just got a text from Dominique yesterday that said that he wants to start the show today with like a pre-game speech. Then I changed my mind. But it was a pre-game speech born of genuine emotion

because you were kind of like tearing up. It sounded like walking around downtown Miami. Nope. So, all right. We will not do the emotional pre-game speech because we don't need that. But the fact of the matter is, I was appreciating what Dan has entrusted us with.

And when Dan announced the death of his brother, I called him immediately, and then I did the obligatory, anything I can do to help let me know. And he was like, come down and do the show for me. And I judged him and was like, what? Who cares? I need to take time off to mourn.

And I was thinking, then bleeping take the time off to, like who cares what happens with the show. But upon further reflection, I was, it just became clear to me that this show is his life's work. And it represents something that he's sacrificed to build. And he talks often about being the son of refugees. And like the show that he's created

is something that I think it's his child. And it's even more than that. It is the grandchild of people who cross waters to get freedom. And so, and it's a place that employs a lot of people and represents a lot of things to a lot of people. So I don't know. I got a whole lot of-

We get swelling music under this. Why do we- Why are you trying to make this into a thing? This you wanted me to do it. I'm telling you what I was thinking. And I got emotional thinking about how valuable this must be to him because how valuable it is to everyone else. And would it represent in that he trusted us enough?

And that's also the reason why when I got here, there were like 15 people here. When I talk to him, he was like, I need you to do the show. So I think I'm flying down to be the rescue. Be the hero all by myself. Then I get here and everybody's here because he's like, I love this so much that I'm going to make everyone that will possibly come down here and come and protect it. So I was a little sad when the Avengers were here. I just thought that I thought all he needed was a black path or a button.

Nope. Nope. I popped the report. Get to try it. It takes a village Dominique. He can't do it alone. You can't fill his shoes alone. Takes too many people.

Well, I mean, I'm actually more talented than that. I mean, you guys have football better before the show. No, he does. So that's for we, he doesn't believe in. I've never got one of these pre-show texts other than do your thing, Fox. I've got an as a pre-show text though. I've got in text about Dominique from Dan says let Fox do his thing. That's not what they say.

He's smart. Don't do poop jokes.. Don't do poop jokes. I don't do poop jokes. Be smart. Did you know that your head ages faster than your feet? Time moves faster at the top of a mountain than it does at the base? Hell yeah.

You said be smart. I tried to inform you guys just there. You all mocked me, dummies. I was trying to think of it as a question. You all mocked me, dummies. Let's try to think of it as an Antarctica. You can take a P and you can do it across four time zones because there are no time zones in Antarctica. Why would you be taking time is whoever the home base is. So the Russian sub base in Antarctica, they're on Russian time and then right next door

can be the france base and they're on france time and they're right next door. But that's all a, it's like a construct though. Time zones is a construct. Like I'm talking about, actually. Well, based on the sun actually. No, time zones are not based on the sun. Are they based on cows?

I flew to a wedding at Notre Dame once except they flew into Chicago and I got there an hour late because what I believe to be farmers having a vendetta against the beast specifically. It is a weird thing in Indiana. The time zone line is like in the middle to western part of the state right before you get to South Bend. So the sun sets really late there in the summer, which is great, but it's super confusing. It's on a different time zone than what you would expect.

I do deal with meetings when you have that. When you're in a time zone change and it's right across the street, I've always wondered when you set a meeting time, is it, do you have to know the time of where the meeting is or is the time of where you are? This feels like an entrée into David Samson versus Dominique Fox. No, I want David Samson, I think David Samson is really good. I want him to get better. And I think that David Samson needs to understand that everything he thinks is not interesting.

And asking a question about meetings, what, no one wants to go to meetings. You think we want to talk about meeting? Lucy was just talking about how the state of Arizona does not recognize time. Hey, David wanted to know about, if we were having a meeting, how would we resolve this conundrum? And the time zone was across the street. I mean, honestly, I think the answer is obvious. I think the time zone is where the meeting is, right? That's the time that you use, right?

Of course. I mean, unless you're like our, like that mall in Kansas City, that's like both in Kansas and Missouri, then maybe you have a time zone situation where you don't know what it is, but like I think most places are in a specific time zone. There's an amusement park in North Carolina where it's half in North Carolina, half in South

Carolina, and you can ride a roller coaster that takes you through the state on the border. Really? Yeah. Carol wins. Please tell me it's called the time traveler. They have, and no, they don't, that's wow. Missed opportunity. They had Thunder Road and it's two roller coasters

that race each other in one's North Carolina and one South Carolina. Oh wow. Carolina always wins. Hold on, they did not know where the Mason Dixon was. They were both on the same side. I love your chair, Samson. That's beautiful.

My other critique for you, Samson, as I was watching your show is, I find that you have too much head room in your camera. You are not a very tall person, but you don't have to be that way in your own video. It's like you crop it so that you look like you're not all that big and then you get in a big-ass baseball chair that also makes you look not that big.

Why don't we get you a tiny chair and bring down the camera angle so that you look imposing, no? It doesn't actually, it doesn't matter. I prefer people to see the background and I don't want people to think I'm big and imposing because I'm not. No, I just mean from a visual standpoint, I would like the subject to take up more space in my screen, I guess. The visual imposing part was more of a joke,

but it's like I'm watching this and I'm like, hey, and I guess you want me to look at all the chachkis behind you? I wanna look at you. I wanna look at you. Teaking Yiddish. I'm trying to. Chachkis.

Isn't that what they are? Or they, Nicknacks, what do you want me to call them? Those are synonyms. Pieces of flair. Muffer face TGI Friday. Hard rock cafes, moments, so things for my kids to sell when I croak. Insider trading. I'm sure you know a lot about that.

Can you tell us about insider trading? Don't do it. Jed York. So Jed York CEO of the 49ers, apparently, it's being accused of insider trading. And I don't know anybody as I look around the shipping container and in here, I'm trying to find insider trading expert. I feel like closest we got to it. I feel like Tony would accidentally insider trade.

It would never be accidental. I just wouldn't do it. So the Federalist. Have you ever had an opportunity that you decided not to participate, have you ever had access to information that you thought was, shh stop, we're gonna get him arrested guys, relax, relax. Have you ever had an opportunity you come across some information that you thought was useful to trade,

but you were like, nah, I can't do this. Oh, we're shaking. Yes, we found something. Of course. I worked on Wall Street for three years, and you get inside information all the time. And that's what the ethical wall is for, which it wasn't called the ethical wall back then. But that is what it's for. You're not allowed to trade on any information.

You are meeting with companies all the time. You get information before the public does, and you have to wait. That's why there's things called restricted stock, which means that you cannot sell shares that you have earned or that have vested to you until a certain time. And that time normally comes after, let's say, earnings calls or after liquidation events or after things that would impact the price. And insider trading is also asking other people or giving other people information that they shouldn't have.

So they make money and then buy you dinner, that is also against the law. So for you, David, as you survey sports and we see headlines, right? There is another story, right? The owner of Tottenham also involved in insider trading, right? Rested. Arrested, yes, yes, yes.

In your opinion, like when it comes to financial improprieties and sports, what are you thinking of when that comes to mind? Is it insider trading? What are owners? What are the people in the C-suite doing that seems to have a connectivity to sports as a genre more than the other parts of the world of finance?

Well, the thing we actually are doing, what is insider is what you're doing regarding your players. So we can mislead, and in the financial world, you're not allowed to mislead investors regarding. That's a lot of what the Wolf of Wall Street is. That's what the penny stocks are, and that was the crime when you're selling shares of companies that don't actually have the products or produce the revenue that you're saying, and you don't care because you're gripping and ripping to get your commissions. We do that with players and with their value, with their health, with their ability.

And so we would have more information about our own player. And if we are going to go public, which we would do, we would actually ask our scouts to say things to baseball America or to MLB.com to pump up certain players who we wanted to trade because they had a decent pedigree. They would let's say a high draft pick, but we knew they were not going to perform or we knew they were an injury waiting to happen. And we would try to pump them up as being good and valuable in order to see if we could extract any value from them in the market.

Get specific. When did you ship a asset out based on lies? in order to see if we could extract any value from them in the market. Get specific. When did you ship a asset out based on lies? It's your favorite. I'm trying. Favorite fleecing. Your favorite fleecing in the history of David Simpson. We didn't do that.

So that would be more interesting too. And it's not, I'd like to say that we're alone because we've been fleeced as much as we have fleeced. And the better teams are the ones who fleece better. It goes back to the astros to me, that situation. And the sign stealing, they just got caught. They did something that we were all doing, except they got caught. And then it became a big thing.

But with the Yankees, the Red Sox, the Marlins, all teams were stealing signs. All teams were using technology. And it was just being bad at it. And that's what that's what the Astros suffered from. So we were bad at it a few times. We traded players where we had to get the player back or the player didn't come back. Josh Johnson is a good example. We traded him to Toronto. He failed his physical because his arm was falling off. But Toronto said, let's go ahead with the trade because we already announced it and our public wants it. David, you're going to lie to us more after this break. Why didn't we just hit him with the hard network out?

Don LeBatard, are you back on the caffeine? Are you back on the red bull? Yes. Yeah. You are something strong. I mean, it's unbelievable. Yeah, and you see, you are something strong. I mean, it's unbelievable how manic he is and he's sort of just the keeps, he keeps chewing on his bottom teeth in a way that's scaring me a little bit.

Stugats, I've been up since 5.30 a.m. producing content. And in terms of being able to be on, my body needs a little boost. And that's why it turns to cocaine. DCC Don LeBotard Show with this Tougat. So David Samson lives inside of what feels like a room inside of Lucy Roeddeen's floodruckers. And inside this baseball themed room, I want the people not watching youtube.com slash

libertarian friends to appreciate the background, which David Samson is going to bequeathed to his children. And Dominique has a question for you. Sparky. Sparky was the nickname given to me by Jack McKeein. Oh, it was our manager when we won the World Series. He called me the Spark plug of the organization, and needed me to take care of everything, and then called me Sparky, and I've been Sparky ever since.

That is the Jersey behind David's head, Sparky number 91, a Marlins Jersey. And he remains Sparky even still today at Metal Arc Media, also filling in various holes that are popping up around this creaky studio. You don't know what Spark plugs do, huh? Nope. Okay, cool. So, I was wondering, we talked about the last segment, we talked a bit about you trying to fleece people

with the deals that you made, but we didn't get a specific time, because you said every time, a specific time when you felt like you were most fleeced. You were so disappointed in a deal that you made that you felt you got out-sampsoned. Somebody out-sampsoned you. Sir John's pizza.

What? Well done. Well done. Members that. I don't. Like Sir Pizza? Sir Pizza. Sir Pizza is, oh, I just combined.

Papa John's and Sir Pizza, yeah. And Sir Pizza. You just like maybe that's something from back in the day, I don't know. You just knighted Papa John. I did. He does not deserve. He does not deserve. No. He does not deserve. No, yeah, absolutely nothing.

We had a, we had, I was the two times that I was fleeced the most is when someone who I trusted with our company was taking tickets that were allocated to him and reselling them at a profit. And we caught him and had to fire him. And it was very disappointing because I thought this person was loyal to me and the company and it turns out that he was taking advantage of a benefit, which is to get game tickets and to get playoff tickets and taking them and you're supposed to use them for clients or for yourself and then reselling them.

And we were able to do a sting operation because I was feeling as though there was a possibility of abuse for a particular world series that was a hot ticket and it turns out that I had a fire this person and that was disappointing to be fleeced in that way. On a business side, Sir Pizza's the example, when we opened the new ballpark, I didn't want dominoes and I didn't want Papa John's. I wanted a local great Miami pizza and we did a tasting and it was brought to us by one of our salespeople. They come in, they serve us pizza and we love it. I'm in. We cut a deal with them and halfway through our first season in 2012,

they stopped paying the bills. And we ended up giving them a leash, but eventually we had to get rid of Serpiza and do a deal like everybody else with Papa John's. And it was very disappointing to say the least. We sued them. Go for Sergian, I'm way wait a minute. Let's talk about this thing operation. How'd you run a sting operation? Yeah, how does, are you, are you wearing a wire? How, are you, are you in a trench coat standing on the shoulders of an employee? Like, how does this work? We run a lot of sting operations at the Marlins.

This is unsurprising to learn. We're trying to catch people doing things that we know they're doing, and we're trying to find out things that are happening that we know they're doing. And we're trying to find out things that are happening that we may not know about. And you do it by doing several things. One, when you're trying to find out who's leaking information to the media, you pull cell phone records

and you plant fake stories to your people and see which of them become public. No, Joe, do my trick. The old Joe do my trick. The old Joe Dumas. It is an outstanding trick, but you have to keep track. So I had a document unsurprisingly, where we'd write down which executive was told what rumor of a free agent we were looking at or a trade we were looking at, knowing that we weren't.

And then we would see what would be out there. And we would use that. Then we would confirm it by looking at cell phone records and we knew the numbers of Ken Rosenthal and all the other people who were breaking these stories and having sources within our company. And we'd match it up and that would lead to and did lead to fireings. So those are easy sting operations.

The tougher ones like the ticket situation is we had to use MLB and we had to use stub hub and we had to use ticket master and we had to work with them in order to trace it so much easier now to do. But back then it was much more difficult in order to trace the provenance of tickets where they were coming from and where they were going. And you had to be sure because if you're going to fire somebody, you have to make sure that they were doing what they said they weren't doing.

And then we were able to do bank records. Now that's a more tricky one because you don't necessarily and shouldn't have access to bank records. David is smiling ear to ear by the way. I just want the audience to know the glee that he takes in recapping a stick. Yes it is. You're the same.

It is, of course, Glee. You're the same person who said you love the fire people. This is definitely Glee. No, you're third. Well, fire people. Fire people. I said I love the fire people who deserve fire. Right.

And that's exactly what we're talking about. No, no, no, no. This is David finding out who deserves to be fired. And that's exactly what we're talking about. No, no, no, this is David finding out who deserves to be fired. Yes. So it is clearly part of the thing that is gleefully low. This just seems like the foreplay, David. You are thoroughly enjoying it.

Oh, no, this is the foreplay. Oh, this is the final, this is the money shot. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hell yeah. When you catch someone doing something that is stealing from your company or doing something where you are not getting the benefit that you are contractually obligated to receive, that's not for play. That's doing your job. There. And you enjoy doing your job. That's all I'm saying. It's nothing to be ashamed of. I loved it. Yeah. That's, that's all right.

Lee was an understatement actually, but we interrupted. So how'd you get the bank records? So, we have like, he has the hectic's on a case right now, by the way. I love, can we get a swinging light over David? I, I, I don't have the right to more than you realize. Uh-huh. You just have to get permission. I know. And when, when you have an employee who's up against it, uh, who is lying to you and is

willing to die with the lie and believes that they've covered their tracks enough, they will give you access to things that you otherwise would not have access to and permission to see things you otherwise would not have permission to see. You've got the bank records of all of your employees because that's called direct deposit. But you don't know the transactions and you don't have subpoena power. That's like baseball always saying, and this is their favorite line, well, we don't have subpoena power, that's like baseball always saying, and this is their favorite line. Well, we don't have subpoena power.

Subpoena power just gets you something faster. There are ways to get the things that you want without having subpoena power. You just need the permission and employees who give you permission to see things who are very worried about their job are dying with the lie and those are the ones that you catch. The ones who don't give you permission, you just have to do work around, figure out other ways, because you know you'll eventually catch them. So, I just wanted to clarify something about this whole storyline. Is it fair to say that, at some point, you sued season ticket holders, David? You sued fans as part of this story?

Well, it's not part of this story. It's part of another story, but yes, if you are a season ticket holders, David, you sued fans as part of this story. Well, it's not part of this story. It's part of another story, but yes, if you are a season ticket holder and you don't pay your bills, you get sued. Oh, that's not connected. You got to pay your bills. So, did you ever feel guilty for, because I am of the belief that everyone is intrinsically good and no one wants to steal or resell tickets or steal from your company. So did you ever feel guilty for not paying people enough, compensating them fairly enough that they didn't feel that they needed to resell your tickets?

Do you ever take responsibility for the fact that you created an environment where people felt that they needed to? No, never. No, that's just interesting. You say that because what you're inferring is that or what I'm inferring from what you're implying is that I was underpaying people, ignoring the fact that it's supplied to man

and that there's 15 people waiting to take the job at less compensation than the person in the job right now. See that? And that's the same for everyone in this room. There are people who would take our jobs for getting paid less than we get paid. And so it's up to us to do our best to keep our jobs and to show value.

And that's the, in baseball, in an media, Dominique, in football. How about you? If someone could do your job better than you and get paid less, you think your GM wouldn't do that. Probably. Would do it, guaranteed.

Otherwise, he'd be fired. He wouldn't be doing his job. It's a bug not a feature. Yeah, I'm sure So I guess it's just like there's a in your view morality can be considered subjective I was just setting up a joke really just to make fun of you But since we've opened this door I think that the idea that paying someone as little as you can possibly pay them because there are other people who are willing to be more aggressively take an advantage of

is not a justification, you know? It's like if someone will allow you to treat them terribly in a relationship because you're really handsome which I'm sure is something you experience because there are lots of other people who are also interested in being with you is not a justification for how well you treat that person. So I was joking, but since we've opened this door.

This is not about abuse. This is not physical abuse. I didn't say physical abuse. Okay, forget the relationship comparison. We'll use this one exactly. I don't think that just because someone is willing to take less money than the person that you're paying means that you are fairly compensating the person that you are paying. That's all.

You will never run a team then, right? Or you'll never run a business. Think about how metal arc operates. That's how, that's actually how all companies operate. You're trying to build your revenue while either keeping your expenses the same or cutting them. So I think this is a difference between you and lots of other managers is I would believe

that just, the way that you compensate someone, and at least the way that when I did manage, and if I would manage, I would believe that just that the way that you compensate someone and at least the way that when I did manage and if I would manage, I would believe that the goodwill engendered from properly compensating and take a pair of people is actually a benefit to me. So like going out and trying to get someone who would take the least amount of money was it's not good for there the way they feel about the company, the way that they're going to do the job that they do or whether they steal from me.

So I think that actually the justification is that you're using is one that is if you are playing a video game with people who don't actually have feelings, but if you manage enough, you recognize that the one thing that you can control and that you need to influence more than anything else is how people feel about your organization. Because if you want somebody who's gonna work overtime,

if you want someone who's gonna work extra hard, if you want someone who's going to work extra hard, if you want someone's going to go extra mile, if you want these people, these are, you would like to engender some sort of connection with them, emotional one, but saying, Hey, when they come and ask you for a raise and you say, Hey, there's 15 people outside willing to do your job for nothing. You know what they're going to do? They're going to approach their job the same way you're approaching them. And they're going to be looking for opportunities to exploit you in the same way that you exploited them.

I'm not going to stay for your rebuttal because I feel like I won. And I pretty, that's a pretty good. Can I keep talking until we run out of time? You won. I got a kill of clock. Four corners, guys, kill of clock. So David cannot. So a guy, a great way to do an argument is to use up the time and say, oh, I guess there

can be no rebuttal because we have a hard network. What a great way to do an argument is to use up the time and say, oh, I guess there can be no rebuttal because we have a hard network. What a great way to pretend like you could have rebutted my pointing out when you actually had time by pointing out that I am running out the clock. You could have said something. All this time, why I'm saying something. You could have said something. Just say, my bad, I take the ill.

You right, Fox. This whole time Tony has been wondering if there's a sting operation being run on him. Don Leopard. I heard the hotel industry is moving away from providing shampoo and soap. Don't get me started on them. Yeah. Do not get me started on hotels.

Oh, the stuff they do. What they take from me, I feel like I'm entitled to take something from them. Thank you, Billy. They're gonna throw away the shampoo. They're gonna throw away the soap. I'm not even talking about that. I'm talking about the sheets and I'm talking about the towels.

Still gots. Oh, we really care about the environment. So please, hang up your towels and get out of here. You just don't wanna wash these towels because it's gonna cost you money to wash these towels. All right, this whole thing about you're saving the whales or you're saving the turtles or whatever because I put my towel on a hanger.

It is so full of it. All right, you just don't wanna give me fresh towels every day. Just call it what it is. Tell me you don't wanna give me fresh towels. I'm still gonna throw it on the floor. All right, you just don't want to give me fresh towels every day. Just call it what it is. Tell me you don't want to give me fresh towels. I'm still going to throw it on the floor. All right, I feel like water is a renewable resource. And you're not really saving the ocean by using water

to clean my towel. Are you? Am I missing something? What am I missing? Am I missing something? The end of the story. This is the Don Lebatar Show with its two gods. with their stoo got Dominique is still taking a victory lap

Still still he's been dancing around the studio the entire time I think you got a like Yes, I got this one for you! I think you got elected president during that break president of our union hell yeah Just for me or reasons for Jessica to not like me Think you got elected president during that break. President of our union. Hell yeah, just for the media. More reasons for Jessica to not like me. What? I don't know what you're talking about, David. But David, the point that Dominique Reyes is a convincing one to me, it is indicating

that not only is this a concern about human empathy, but a concern about human performance, right? You want the best performing employees, treat them as if they are not interchangeable, fungible parts. So the best performing employees make it so you have to pay them. There are people in the organization, we had salespeople making mid-six figures. We had people in the baseball department making seven figures, high seven figures. When you are indispensable and you cannot be replaced at a lower number, you get paid and you get recognized.

So. But if you come in and ask for a raise and you have no basis for that ask and you are replaceable, you'll get replaced. This is a problem with economists in general. I think economics is a great field of study that is quite useful. But in individual circumstances, I think economics is a great field of study that is quite useful, but in individual circumstances, I think that you have a problem when you believe that

you can use these types of principles with the way that people will actually behave. So I think by saying, you're assuming that everyone is a rational actor and you're assuming that everyone is motivated by the same incentives. So yes, I think for some people and probably for you, David, which is why you probably assume that other people operate this way, that internal motivation and that justification. I'm like this also, and that I am hard on myself as a judge, and if I am not getting something that I feel I deserve,

my first thought is what more must I do. But not everyone operates like that. And I think that if you treat everyone that way, it's problematic. I think the question that is served at the center of this disagreement, which is actually a fascinating one to me, is who are we really talking about?

Are we talking about employees with no claims to arrays? Or are we talking about employees who based on performance, but not market have claims to arrays, or we're talking about employees who based on performance, but not market, have claimed to arrays, right? David, that's what we're talking about. Where we're talking about really is those edge cases. Somebody is really good at their job, but there are also people who may be able to replicate that job to a degree

when cost is factored in that make it actually more efficient for you employer to just pick the person who's a little worse but makes way less. Why do you think the athletes get paid so much? Because it's very difficult to replace them. No, that's a fair point. They get paid so much because they had a union and because they have free agency, which is, I mean, it's the crux of what we are saying is that you need to take what belongs to you. That's why they get paid so much and why they don't get paid enough is because the leagues have more power

to negotiate for a favorable collective bargaining agreements, not because the players are not more valuable than what they are. Well, management always is going to have the advantage in any CBA negotiation in any industry. But I think fundamentally you have a hierarchical view of the way that things work in organization, where it seems that you believe that you are the judge of what's happening, and they are trying to perform for you. And it doesn't appear to me that you view it in a way

that you are doing the same thing for them. And I think that's where we, from a management principle, where we disagree is I believe that while yes, they are working for the manager, the manager is also working for them. And what you can provide for them is ultimately going to help you out. So I guess that's my job. My job, Dominique is to provide them with an atmosphere where they are incentivized. Whatever those incentives are, Google will say we want a ping pong table. I will say we want free lunch or free breakfast, whatever the case is or bonuses or title

changes. Title inflation is a very popular thing if you know your employees. There's some people that would trade money for title. Can you imagine how stupid that is when an employee would come to me during a review and say, you know, I'd like to be a senior director. And I'd say, well, you can be a senior director, but then your pay raise is not gonna be the 7% or the 5%.

We're gonna keep you with the same pay but make you senior director. Your choice. This is like when the NBA gave back weed. It's like, hey, we don't really care about this. If you want it, we'll take some other stuff. And meanwhile, the whole container is wondering what titles can they get now? It's amazing. For people who are title hungry, you can absolutely take advantage of them in terms of compensation. And to me, I was way

more interested in compensation than title. Whether executive vice president or president or CEO or COO, I never cared about that. I just cared about what my contract was. Now we all just want money. Yeah. Cash please. You're smart. This conversation may have run its course, but I think we've gotten to the fundamental disagreement is that I believe that there is some value in the goodwill that you can engender in your staff, which permeates the culture. And I think when there comes a time that revenue is low and you need people to tighten their belts

and you need people to accept that we're not having promotions and we're not having title changes, we're not getting more money. They will be more prone to do that if you've taken care of them and other times. When you need people to stay late You need them to skip their sons softball game or their sons a little league game so they can work for you I think these are the things that

There's gonna come a time and that's why I guess I view a manager as working for the employees rather than the other way around is you what you're trying to do is Motivate them get them connected to your organization and however do it, or however you do it is up to you. What you're not trying to do is like say, hey, you're expendable cog, I can find a cheaper cog, scram. I also find that it's so frustrating, especially with the way that our healthcare system is tied into employment in this country that a company would rather let someone go for poor performance. And essentially, you could end up ruining someone's life that way if they need health insurance, which most people do.

Instead of giving them the tools to actually be successful in that job, and it seems like maybe you would hope that a company has some sort of moral obligation to that, but they don't. They are always going to act in their self-interest. When you say conversation has run its course, and then you go on for three minutes, does that give me an extra two minutes or is now the three minutes minutes run its course? Oh, no, no, no. We, um, the debate portion of this ended when I did a dance behind Pablo's head when I was body rolling. That's when over. That's why I said we're having

a conversation at this point because you already took the L, but by all means, floor is yours. Big chair. There's a count though. No, it doesn't count though. The game is over. It's like talking after the end of the game. It's like shooting a shot at the end of the buzzer from half court. No, shoot it before you don't want to take the oath.

Well, when you had a chance, you decided to complain about my debate tactics rather than take the shot. You were talking to the ref. Once again, you have time to do something about the situation and you still hollering at the refs. There is not one company out there. David. In sports or out of sports.

There's not one company who acts differently than I did. And you do that in the best interests of your company. That's why layoffs happen at companies for low-wing during COVID. It's not because you want to do it. It's because the interest of your company. That's why layoffs happen at companies for low-wing, during COVID. It's not because you want to do it. It's because the interest of the company is always greater than the interest of the person. And that's where we disagree is that I'm not sure

that the interest of the person is not higher, is not directly connected to the interest of the company. And I think you're right. The tough thing that people use is they try to take the people out of this by saying company and shareholder value, but in actuality, a company is a collection of people and the decisions that are being made are being made by people, whether it's CEOs or boards or chairman, like these are the people making the decisions. And to assume that you can make just cold decisions all the time is a lie.

It's like saying that news does not have some sort of bias. If you are choosing what you produce as news, then there is inherently going to be a bias in it. And if you are making these decisions while you can always find some sort of numerical justification that makes it feel like the decision you're making is right, what you're actually doing is making a decision based on what you think you, what you feel is right. And in my view, some managers can make decisions that they feel is right, that they feel are right, that are not directly tied to what maximizes their revenue for this particular

quarter. It can be an investment that will maximize the value and the company long-term. And I think that companies do, or some managers do make decisions like that. Your 401k plan would be in the crapper if the companies that it invested in acted the way that you want them to act. Well, this is what it cursed me.

We should have to do all of that to not have to work till we die. That's part of the process. That's why it's all tied into one another. All these things connect to one another. There is a certain deathbed test, right? To bring it all full circle here, right? Like when you, David Samson, CEO, are meeting,

the final door you will walk through on the other side of which is eternity, right? What are you gonna be most proud of? Fostering a community of people that accomplish a goal together, or is it going to be maximizing the profit margins of the company? And I would disagree that that is even a choice. Well, but I think with this, my argument would be

I know that community would also maximize. Yes, but here's a thing, at those edge cases, right? Where there is a trade-off. This is where when I listen to David, I listen to how NFL coaches think. I think of David as somebody who was playing to win the game and there is a ruthlessness to what he thinks is the best way to advance the ball down the field.

And in the process, he's gonna cut people and he's gonna bench people and he's gonna bench people and he's gonna tell somebody to shoot themselves up with Toradal. But the process that he's following leads to a result that is how to maximize winning. And what you're arguing for is a wrinkle that argues that that's not a the only way to win,

but that be there other considerations that should be weighed against that goal. But I think it is a great aspiration to try to win and be profitable and be a great kind person who never has to lay anybody off or make tough decisions as someone who's running a company. That would be amazing. I just think that that's what you find on fantasy island. And so in the real world, I just don't know how to do it.

I wish there were CEOs. I wish that I'd be better. Of course, I don't revel in the fact that I had to do the things that you're saying I did to advance the ball. Of course, I understand what I was doing. I just didn't have another path. And of course, I would love to know whether another path could work. I've just never had it modeled for me, and I've never seen it.

And reading test cases and reading things in business school or law school, when you're on the battlefield, and when you're trying to win and trying to make money, when you're trying to do things for your company and knowing that some people are going to not be a part of it, you're going to have to release a player to win a world series, but you'll give them a C ring instead of an A ring. That's a problem. No, that's a problem. What David is...

For some anyone doing it. What David is asking you, Dominique, is to show him how to love. Yes. I mean, please. Maybe I'm guilty of hyperbabilizing your position, but you're definitely doing the same thing to me. I'm not arguing that you can't fire anyone at any point.

And obviously you have to make tough decisions. When I'm arguing is sometimes you can make compassion decisions that also are the right financial decisions. That's all. Don Lebertard. So I think Larry Fitzgerald's on the green right there. Spooka. That's all funds are repair.

Oh, how do you think that they are just you? The sun. The sun. The sun. To be fair. To be fair. Alfonso Rivera has a great ass. This is the Danelebertar show with the Stugat.

David Samson is still with us, still looking for a person to model human love for him. Dominique thrusting his way across the background of the studio was one form of modeling, I suppose. But David, you had something else you wanted to do before actually finding out what it's like to feel. Well, we generally on Thursday do a movie review, so I didn't know Pablo, you know, with you and Dominique and the chair, are you still interested in a movie review? Absolutely. I mean, we tried to see a movie yesterday. I tried to see the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie. I couldn't go see it because I told my son I would see it with him, so I can't cheat on my son.

Probably. Dominique showed me how to love yesterday by telling me no, and I invited him to the movies. Are you afraid to go to a movie alone? I'm not afraid, but it was an activity that I need to do with a friend. Yeah, we were, we were here alone, so we've been doing lots of things together. So it would have been kind of Pablo showed me the love back by saying, well, if you can't see the movie, I won't see the movie without you. Let's do something together. We tried to go on a Ferris wheel yesterday. Uh, yeah, but the line was too long.

And then we, well, it's a whole nother conversation. We'll save that for a minute. I didn't you choose a different movie. Well, because Pablo had seen the other two movies that I'd seen Oppenheimer, Dominique and Seen Barbie, I had seen Mission Impossible. The only other thing was the Meg too. And we were like, nah, nah, we're not going to do that. So what movie did you see, David Simpson?

So yesterday I still watch a movie every day, shockingly. And yesterday I watched the new documentary on Apple TV about Steph Curry called underrated. And it follows him from childhood. Very little talk about the fact that he's the son of Del Curry, the NBA sharpshooter. He was interviewed a few times, but no mention that there could be any genes involved of any kind, which was strange. And it follows him through Davidson, through the warriors. And the way they did the movie, they're trying to outsmart themselves, they kept going back and forth in time. They kept showing him as a warrior, and then Davidson, and showing,

he got very confusing. And they kept putting the date as a warrior and then Davidson and showing, got very confusing and they kept putting the date as a documentary style. So to bring you to where you're supposed to be, so March 21st, 2007. And in my head, I've lost track of years and I couldn't remember what. So am I going, you're telling me that they made this into tenet?

They were alternating timelines, overlapping, they needed to be deciphered in like a reddit thread afterwards. That's exactly what they did. They didn't do well. There was no reason. And the reason I think they thought they had to do it is because Steph, he's sort of boring. Yeah. And his interviews were not engaging in any way. The best interview was his grandmother, who's this sort of, you know, a very defensive grandmother, like my grandson is the best. And I love that. And no talk about the family issues, which is fine.

That can be private. But they made it personal enough that they shot in Steph's house with his kids, with his wife showing him getting a degree, which I thought was terrific. The best part of the documentary is that he did work and did get his degree, which I thought was terrific, the best part of the documentary is that he did work and did get his degree, which his mom wanted him to do after he left Davidson a year early. The relationship he had with his coach, at Davidson, so there's nuggets of greatness,

but overall, I was quite disappointed with the subject, with the way the subject was handled. Was Dominique in it? We were all... No, so we Pablo and I watched Manzels documentary yesterday and a while it's the untold story about Johnny Manzels. And I had been joking with Pablo that, you know,

when they do these type of documentaries, they often find and I imagine they did it in the Steph Curry one also, they find talking heads. The doubters. Who has said negative things. And so yeah. And so before Steph Curry won the last championship the season before that, I there was like a news cycle because I put up zeroes

over my eyes and said Steph Curry would win zero titles. And then Steph Curry mocked me at the post game press conference by putting the zero god was over space. So while we were watching the man's out documentary, Paulo and I were discussing the players whose post career documentaries we will be in. And I'm pretty sure that at some point when Steph Curry has another documentary, I think you're in this one, Dominique. Awesome. I'm now thinking back to it because it was a voiceover that involved zeroes right before they did the 2022 championship.

So it has to be you. I mean, it was a question asked. How many titles will Steph Curry win and Dominique went all in on you? Me and Kendrick Perkins to be great. Me and Kate. But has no one texted you? Yeah, probably wasn't any.

He texted from people who have watched it who would say, hey, I heard your voice. Like one texted you. Yeah, probably wasn't any. He texted people who have watched it, who would say, hey, I heard your voice. Like, I texted Pablo, I watched Linsant, or 38 at the garden, and all of a sudden, there's Pablo. Well, that was the opposite scenario. I was a prophet who called this before everybody else. I believe that part of the issue might be in this case,

that I don't know how many people even know that this exists. This underrated documentary. I mean, but the thing that you started with David is the thing that made me not so interested in it, which was simply that buying the idea of Steph Curry as an underdog requires a narrative contortion that denies that he inherited the genes of one of the greatest shooters of all time. It requires us to understand Steph Curry, not as a six foot three son of two athletes who played at a high level competitively, but as a David. And

I say that not to use specifically, but it works. But as a person against Goliath, who would be a small underdog. And I don't believe that that is the Steph Curry story in reality. Pablo, it works so better if you hadn't explained. Yeah. I know. I have a problem. It's not coaching up. David, coach him up. Why do that? Pablo, you don't need to. People are smart enough to have gotten that. Sure about that.

Well, the people who are smart enough to have gotten it would have appreciated it and then appreciated less one's probably. I felt bad. I can't stare at a man sitting inside a giant baseball glove and then appreciated it less once. I felt bad. I can't stare at a man sitting inside a giant baseball glove and make sure it smells. It's just hard for me. So the question is now that the writer strike is happening and everything that's with all the unscripted

that you're seeing and all of the crazy sort of content, eventually the streaming services are gonna run out of content. And the question is, will that be the impetus to settle this strike? And I was thinking about while I was watching this documentary, how much is in the can at Apple or at Netflix or Amazon, et cetera, before it actually starts impacting a consumer's decision to pay the monthly fee. And so would I be happy paying Apple's fee

if what I'm getting is underrated? And the answer is I'm still a yes because of all the other things on Apple TV that I would be happy to engage in again or watch again because when you binge a show, you tend to forget it more than when it's on weekly. So what I just like to think, I just like how David watches movies

wondering if you should fire the streaming service. That's, this is so, I don't you this ties back into the conversation where we were having before, whereas I don't know that it's the best decision for the big networks and producers and streaming companies and TV networks. I don't know it's know it's in their best decision to use the leverage, because they have leverage, and they are more powerful than the writers or the actors.

I don't know that it's in, not I don't know, it is not in their best interests to try to play hardball at this point, because what they're doing, in my view, is allowing consumers to retrain themselves. So it's not as if there's nothing to do other than TV. So while they are holding a hard line against the writers

and the actors, we are progressively turning to other forms of entertainment more and more. And once they are completely out of stuff, we will all be off of this. And then they're gonna be like, man, wish we would have taken that deal a while ago because now no one wants to watch this. We're all hooked on TikTok or whatever else we're doing. But you're going to come back. And that's, that's the theory that, that management has during

this negotiation. It's like when you have appointment viewing, let's say you're a, a survivor fan in every Wednesday at eight o'clock, you watch survivor and you know to be around every Wednesday at eight. When there's no new season on, you do something else Wednesday at eight. Until the next season comes, and then you change your plans back to be available Wednesday at eight. And the bet is that while people are distracted by doing other things like during COVID, people are watching the tiger documentary or the last dance or other things like that, that stuff that just doesn't fly as well when there's more content available.

Yeah, and I guess that's the thing. I'm not sure that people will come back, particularly young people. I'm not sure that they will come back, but whatever, it's holding out the conversation in an industry that neither of us know a whole ton about, but actually I do, never mind. We all do work in it.

You have written on a scripted program. Yeah, I'm a part of the union. I'm a credited TV writer. David Stryk. Are you on strike? Yeah. Are you a scab right now? No, this is not the same thing. You think anything we've done in on this show feels written? Yeah, I wrote for a scripted television show. This is not what we are doing here. That's right. Which one? Well, it didn't come out.

There was in the middle of filming whenever I went on strike. It's not about anyway. Yeah, that's right. I can't promote it. Thank you, Roy, for maintaining the integrity of Tom and me. You got it. You didn't fall out.

I could say what I wrote for, because it's not out. I'm not promoting something, because it's not out. They haven't finished producing. They had to stop recording it or filming it because of what happened. It's the next American crime story. It's Aaron Hernandez stuff. So.

That's a great tease. I feel like it's the human thermon explanation of her pilot in Pulp Fiction. The pilot that never was picked up. I really don't know. The only one is picked up. I mean, it has been, I just, I won't do any more talking about it. I just know that whenever I've talked to Dominique about it, it sounded amazing.

The funny thing is, when you're on the outside of this, it feels like the people have so much more influence than they actually have. And you want to be like, blame the writers, you want to blame the direct, you want to blame the actors, but there are so many hurdles as I'm learning and so many hands that touched is that ultimately, one or two people are going to get a lot of credit for a successful thing, but it requires so many other people to have bought into this process,

so many other people to be willing to sacrifice and work really hard, so many other people to be willing to sacrifice and work really hard. So many other people to love a piece of art as much as the artist loves it, which is another reason why you should treat people with respect and not just. Can you imagine the nanny getting the credit to end the strike? She deserves it.

Brand Drescher, yeah. Great speech. Shout out for me. Absolutely. Dominique, is this why when I asked you if I could get a cameo in the next American crime story you said no. Exactly why. You know, you have to pay him. No, I don't have that type of influence. Like when they first hired me, they hired me as a consultant because I don't

think they believed that I was capable of writing. And so then I mean, I hadn't done it before I respect them, but then I like worked my way into proving to them. So by a weekend, I was a staff writer. And you know what, staff writers can't do. Hey, hey, put my friend on. He, my friend wasn't be an extra. No. I just wanted to play like a professor at the University of Florida. I just wanted to actually, I wanted to teach Erin Hernandez about biology or some of the thing that people think I'm good at that I don't actually know anything about.

Yeah, you're really on the smartest you project.