The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Local Hour: The Honest Heat Person

Episode Date: January 23, 2024

Joel Embiid dropped 70, Karl-Anthony Towns dropped 62, so we spend the majority of the majority of the first two segments discussing the most important story in the NBA: a potential Kyle Lowry trade* and his fit within the culture. Is Billy the only Heat truth teller on the show? Then, a breakdown of KAT and his team's reaction to his huge night, and Jason Kelce's shirtless meanderings. Plus, Pablo Torre joins the show to discuss platforming O.J. Simpson. *The Kyle Lowry trade happened before this episode was posted, so you can hear a full breakdown of our reactions in the Big Suey. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're listening tobased, unbiased, and current resource from the OCS. Get answers to questions like, how long does cannabis stay in my system, and how do I talk to my kids about cannabis? Get clear on cannabisfacts at cannabismadeclear.ca. What a magical NBA night last night with just a few games,

Stugatz, with just a handful of games. Greg Popovich with Wemba Nyama was willing to say of him, Bede, we're going to hammer his ass before the game. And Bede goes off for 70. And I don't think it's top two in interesting things that I saw last night in basketball. Lucy is suffering her punishment. What punishment is this, Lucy?

You look a bit like Cindy Loper. Is that a Cindy Loper punishment? I am 80s today. And you know what? Suffering, not the right word. I love this outfit. I wish we could dress like this all the time. I love this look.

I mean, I can, but I couldn't walk down the street. It's your choice. But I love it. I can't wait for this look to come back in style because I'm having so much fun today. There's been a couple punishments, Dan, where you walk in, and it's very close to the line where you don't know if you should ask someone

if they're in a costume or if they're just dressed for the day. And today was one of those days where I was like, so? She's like, 80s. And I was like so just like 80s and I'm like okay it's a punishment or do you just have these things. Tony's walked in with a couple get-ups that I'm like I have to check the calendar. I mean but some days he just dresses as though he's punished anyways. Yeah he's never punished. Like when I did Rocky. You haven't suffered enough punishments I am told that Stugott's later this week will do the Larry Bird short shorts.

He will. I'm so excited for it. We've got the towel and the blonde wig and all ready for Mike's worst nightmare. Shot for your life. Mike finds all of this unpleasant. But let me talk about some of the things that happened last night. Because again, Greg Popovich, you do not see this very often. I don't know why he would wish this on Wemben, Yama, trying to teach the young fella early because Embiid is a man child who does this to Yokic. Like he can do it against anybody and he's hell bent. So God's on winning a title. He's like, don't care about the 70 M night. Shyamalan is coming out and saying, what a joy to watch Embiid play joyously to play like a child to enjoy himself and indeed goes for seventy but he wants the championship this year he is tired of

yeah you're a great player but what about the playoffs and to throw women young into that fire at i don't know when the young is turned twenty yet or not and then have a big go for seventy while in minnesota the more interesting game of the night all of a sudden anthony edwards for some reason is an afterthought minnesota has decided to go with carl anthony towns when the reputation the carl anthony

towns has no matter how revolutionary he is as an inside outside player is that dude soft and he's a loser like that's that's the reputation i'm not saying that's fair I would not do that to him but that's how he's looked at because of what happened in that Jimmy putt the Jimmy Butler practice yes it's all his fault yeah I'm not saying that that's not how I look at him I look at him and I'm like what a mutant I can't believe that person can do those things but I think everyone listening to this who knows basketball says you cannot win if that is your number one player,

for reasons that don't have very much to do with how good he is at basketball. You know, he and Wilt are the, I believe, the only players to score 60 or more in a game twice at the center position. Like, that's it. Carl Anthony Townsend, Wilt Chamberlain. I have seen very few players ever like him.

He's been like this since he was a freshman in college, and I'm floored by his skill set. But the sport requires something else to got so suffering that indeed has learned over the last few years that Carl Anthony Edward, Carl, Anthony towns hasn't yet done. But Anthony Edwards has to be the number one in spirit on that team. He's got to be the guy who leads them. Uh, he does. He is that guy. I feel like he is that guy. Stephen A compared him to Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant.

Little early for that. No, but still got to everyone's doing that. Everyone sees how young he is, how good he is, and they see Wade and Jordan, everything else, and they're saying that's the player that's the future of the league. But yesterday, he was not. Everything in Minnesota, because they were playing Charlotte,

because Charlotte stinks. Charlotte's got nine wins, becauselotte was down eighteen points in that game was centered around let's get carl anthony towns his point but still got they gave up the eighteen point lead this is one of the best teams in the league when edwards leads them

not carl anthony town soft when edwards leads them and go bear is playing defense that team can beat anybody and needs to learn the things that need to be learned about suffering and losing to go deep in the playoffs in that sport but let's just check out some of the calls the hornets announcers are watching carl anthony towns do this and listen to what it is that they're describing

the listen to what it is that they're describing that's how you call it that's carl anthony towns from thirty feet i want to play that again just so that is exactly how you call all of that play that again please let's play the second hornets call of Carl Anthony Towns going crazy. He's never made a free throw as a pro. But he has now.

I love leaking. That's the Hornets winning. I love leaking. That's the Hornets winning that game, Stu Gotts. But let me give you some of the stats when I tell you that Carl Anthony Towns goes for 62. But was two for 10 in the fourth quarter. But was benched with three minutes left in a tie game

because they're like, okay, enough of this. But did all the things wrong at the end of the game to lose the game and Chris Finch, the coach of the Timberwolves, who again, they're great. Chris Finch was pissed off after that game. Listen to this. It was an absolute disgusting performance of defense and immature basketball all the way through the game. So it really didn't slip away. It had been way through the game.

So it really didn't slip away. It had been there from the jump. So this is what happens when you have this type of approach. It's kind of stunning to hear. Especially with the graphic beside it of 62 points. You don't usually lose the games when your guy has 62. In fact, two gods is going to dress as Larry Bird because Larry Bird once won one of those games when Michael Jordan scored 63. And afterward, Larry Bird called Michael Jordan God.

And he was right. But Finch is upset about the defense. They gave up 128 to Charlotte. That's an embarrassment. They're the one seed in the West. Charlotte has had before that game nine wins on the season. That game was in Minnesota. Let's listen to Anthony Edwards.

What was his stat line, Stugatz? Because Anthony Edwards didn't do much in the game. It was all about Carl Anthony Town. He had nine points on three of 11 shooting. And that's why they lose to Charlotte. And let's listen to Anthony Edwards after the game. He had up by 24. and he's walking us down. Just in terms of the focus that you guys had, did you see that kind of goal in terms of

even focus? He wasn't focused from the jump. No, he was never focused. Kat just had a great night and he wasn't focused. He started out, obviously started on fire. Did you think that it turned the focus turn from winning the game to just trying to get him? He hit his first six seven shots. I think everybody was pretty much just trying to

see him go get a hundred points. I knew I was. This team has been so mature for most of the year and handled this game. Immature as f***ing night. Yeah. Why do you think that was okay? I mean he got hot. So I think all of us as well as the 15 of us in here, we all 14 of us wanted to see him get 80 or whatever it was. I think we might want more time though. Is that hard for you to go from not showing at all? Yeah, yeah. I'm mad. I'm pissed. But I mean, so good. Career high a career hot. Congratulations to Big Cat. He definitely will for 60 for sure.

It's one of a kind performance. So I appreciate him for giving me that. A-Rod will figure it out. We lost because he got hot. That's going to be interesting to watch. Those are young players, and that needs to be Anthony Edwards' team. And maybe Carl Anthony Towns knows it, but not when he's going 10

for 15 from 3, does it? We're gonna get to Mike Ryan's rabid rage around Kyle Lowry because he's become a very polarizing figure locally and now he's poisoned. And I think poisoned publicly or as poisoned publicly as a Hall of Fame player who's always been a pillar of professionalism. It seems like he doesn't want to be here and is unhappy and this goes back a ways man just since preseason. He's saying I'm the point guard and suppose like not really. And that the team is super interesting the heat because they're thirty one and thirty one's do gots when bam

hero and butler are all all healthy but when hero is out is when they make their big runs their tyler hero is a an excellent basketball player but they're only thirty one and thirty one when all three of their pieces are together in the sample sizes and small anymore like he's out enough and he's in enough that you're like, well, wait a minute, why is that

happening? One of the reasons it's happening is because Kyle Lowry has been a spectacular and expensive disappointment. That was supposed to be the fourth piece. You're paying that guy to be your fourth best player on a team where that's your super three. I mean, normally that would be a good thing, right? Kyle Lowry being your fourth best player.

It won a championship once when Kawhi Leonard was the best player. When he was. And he was up there, he was second best. No, Siakam was. Siakam hadn't taken over that team yet. And Kyle Lowry was brought here to be the third best player. Right.

And he dipped levels that he's had now I don't have rabid rage when it comes to Calauri nor have I in quite some time because I've been careful because of His comments on that. I didn't want to stoke the flames any but it's good to see everyone's finally here now You've called him fat for years No, I haven't you avoided You avoided it. Yeah, no, I think the heat also called him fat if you want to like or let down to what it what it What it actually is when we're talking around a certain professionalism new approach to game He had stuff going on in his life

I don't feel like soaking the flames, but it's good to see everybody's over here now Once the team calls their player fat then it's fair game for everyone. Okay, it should be noted. It's the team. Again, it didn't happen exactly that way, but it... We need Kyle Lauer down here more than ever, I think. Now that UD's gone, you need that veteran champion on your team. And I could be wrong, but...

I mean, that's Kevin Love. No, he was an appendage. Let's be real. Come on appendage. Yeah on that championship He literally had the greatest stop he stopped at the top of the yeah How about score 60 points in a game stop? What is that? Okay? Wow? You're plus two on that okay? Whatever, but it was at the end as Steph Curry was isolated and couldn't get past this LeBron James won that champion I mean you did he said this weekend that Kevin Love is the guy that he reaches out to to get the pulse of the team right now.

Because he said that. Just be a nice, yeah. Exactly right, you have to give him something because he's not really putting up numbers. This is how we're gonna have this discussion. Someone needs to be an honest heat person here. And I'm looking. I agree.

As soon as football season's done, I'm not ready to step into that role quite yet That's a damn shame once football season is there after the all-star break really because the NBA season hasn't started We'll circle that with you then thanks. I'll check in with you guys and what is it two three weeks from now? Cool, and then I'll be the key guys would like but I'm gonna have to sign up for ballies plus because I have Hulu and they Don't have that and oh quite price grace expense that gracious of you's quite price. Did I expense that? Gracious of you to step aside. I'm gonna see if I could expense that. Yes, you can, I am authorizing that expense.

Oh, that's the interesting. Whoa, that's a crazy precedent to say. I wish you were more engaged so we can have this discussion but, you know, mighty big of you to step aside. Stugatz here from my friends over at SimplySafe and telling you about them for years. Why I have had their home security system in my house for many, many years, protecting both me and my family.

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Teammates can't shoot from three Now they're gonna see a different Jimmy Now he's just, just playing Nickelback in the locker room and Stugats! They'll play D and show threes As they chase the Nets for the six-seed Nickelback in the locker room and Stugats This is the Dunlebatar show with the Stugats This is what I'm doing Billy. Yes. I am authorizing that expense only for you, but it's in exchange for you finishing something, which is this character, I'm going to be the only one who's honest about the heat after

football, want to see him every day. Well, every day is a lot. Well, no, I want to get my expense back. I want to, every day you're in here. How about after every game? Load management, how does that sound? Nope, no, you're all right. How about I'll do it as often as Roy does

his post-game show? If you wanna set the precedent, I'm here to be honest about the heat character as somebody I do want to fund and support has my full backing but has to actually work, not just watch games on an expensive count. So I'd like to see you. Well, the watching the game's the hard part

if I'm gonna be honest with you. I could be here every day, as informed as I need to be, but the watching is really the commitment, you know? I don't feel like anyone around here is as informed as they need to be on Kyle Lowry if Stugato is shrugging his shoulders and saying, as soon as the team gives you permission to fat shame someone, then we can all fat shame.

He looks great. I would love to look like Kyle Lowry. I'd just like to say that. I'd also love to look like Jason Kelsey if I'm gonna be perfectly honest with you. I see these guys take their shirts off and I'm like, whew, I would love if that was my body. I will tell you that I found the one person

who did not like what Jason Kelsey did. My wife. Really? Called him a drunk idiot. Also skip bae. Wow. Wow. He has to drink so much to get drunk

if we're gonna be on to the you. How could he be a drunk idiot? Billy, I said yesterday that he has said that 20 beers puts him on five from one to 10 on drunk. Puts him on a five, which is about like Greg Cody. I'm sorry, Greg Cody is not here. He is under the weather, at least in part,

because he drinks 20 beers a night. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha to friendship and separating himself from the team in a way that now has the Heat fan base. Well, if you're gonna be bad and now you're gonna be mad at us, the whole thing is poison, and you're talking about trading him for Terry Rosear and his expensive contract so that you can get his 37% shooting instead of Kyle Lowry's poison.

Well, Terry Rosear is having a career year offensively and would help in comparison to what Lowry has given them the last several weeks The Kyle Lowry stuff is interesting with Instagram and stuff like that because I don't know that he ever followed some of these players that Everyone's saying he unfollowed like if you go search in his Instagram Oh, does he follow Jaime Hawke's junior? No, but I also haven't seen the proof that he ever followed him to begin with so it's really more No, but I also haven't seen the proof that he ever followed him to begin with so it's really more Potentially just trying to make things look bad. There is poison taken out of his bio. That's again I don't know if it was ever in there. That's kind of the thing is everyone saying oh things were taken out But but I don't know if it was ever there

See hold on a second yeah, of course if you would just because the reason I need to stop you is because would just because the reason I need to stop you is because you run on the political spectrum of what happens around here when it comes to heat coverage. Mike Ryan and Parakeet Cortez have always owned the lane of being the most propaganda Homer-ish. Mike Ryan over the last couple of years has soured on some things with the Miami Heat and you have taken over the lane of being even more propaganda-ish because you're linked to the team of being even more propaganda-ish. Because you're linked to the team, but also you're doing a new kind of journalism, where you're obviously a fan, but obviously you also want to be impartial,

but every syllable that comes out of your mouth sounds like it's biased. Every syllable. I mean, that was just telling you a fact as opposed to saying he took stuff out of his mind. You can run with the rumor if you want, but that's fine. If I may call it 20, if I may call it 20, let's talk about the Kyle Lowry story as it's developed. But you have 20 seconds to do it. He was benched, he was taken out of the starting role,

a starting role that he made a very big deal out of this offseason with the coaching staff that he needed. He absolutely needed this starting role. He did not want to come off the bench. He was benched. His post-game reaction to it was really salty and in a bit of a seed change because this stuff has been hanging over Kyle Lowry for quite some time, the heat media all took the same note and said okay that's enough of that. This is toxic. And now a bunch of dirty laundry has been played out in the public space.

And it's been reported that the Miami Heat are looking to move Cal Aurena. And you got to get something for that contract because it's expiring. It is a valuable contract. And I've seen reports. And Jeremy, you helped me here, wherever it is a valuable contract, and I've seen reports and Jeremy, you help me here, wherever it is that your biases are and aren't. What's true about the reports that it might have gotten so poisonous already that they might not even want anything back for him? That it... And this is not... Well, how valuable is the contract then?

It is. An expiring contract in that sport is absolutely valuable. Always. But you don't trade them and get nothing in return. You hold on to the contract then. Unless things are so poisoned, I don't know what's true and what's not true here because I haven't made the calls to find out whether this stuff that's being rumored, which is,

are they going to lose Kyle Lowry for nothing because everything's so poison that you can't get anything for him? When in that sport an expiring contract you can always get something for it. I mean, so I think where that stems from is initially there were conversations in the offseason or even before that where originally it came from a Barry Jackson report that potentially Kyle Lowry could be bought out of his contract and that they wouldn't want to keep Kyle Lowry anymore. That's not the case and that's not Barry's reporting anymore either

The the conversation is either you trade him for some sort of value back or you hold on to him through the rest of the season as Either someone who's a malcontent or someone who's bought back in because hey They're chasing something and Jimmy Butler's his friend But he'll be on the bench at this point like the reality is, once that switch was made, and the lack of production he's had, which he even acknowledged himself, hey I haven't been as good as I would like to be over the last several weeks, that's what turned into this sort of poisonous situation. The interesting part is, what are the heat willing and able to do with the value of that expiring money, because that's either going to be a

trade with not a lot of other pieces looking for a player potentially like Terry Rosear, a big contract that's potentially longer money than they want to be paying, or moving multiple pieces to get a player like Dijante Murray. The reporting now is that Murray, the heat are sort of out of those sweepstakes, so you start to look around at players like potentially Bruce Brown. That's that's the guy I want. Yeah, honestly, me too. Bruce Brown would be a hell of a not rozier, not rosier.

And I know you need to make the contracts match up and everything else. Not Murray. You want Bruce Brown? Bruce Brown would be a whole other country. He's not an actual. And there's a lot of people out there that say, but we need a point guard in the traditional sense. Bruce Brown played point card and kick the Miami heats ass in the traditional sense. Bruce Brown played point guard and kicked the Miami Heat's ass in the NBA finals.

And from a culture standpoint, I'll wear my bias on my sleeve quite literally today. Like he's a former K and I love Bruce Brown and I do not like Terry Rose here. If the trade is Cal Lowry for Terry Rose here, what the Miami Heat are doing is moving my least favorite player of all time for my second least favorite player of all time.

I am public in my desire to not ever have Terry Rose here on this team, thank you. But Kyle Lowry's led you guys to two straight Easter conference finals, one NBA finals. And here we are, culture, loyalty, the heat family, that all of a sudden. He's led us there. Let's cut the cord here on Kyle Lowry.

Yes, he has not led us there. I mean, we just retired. We just retired a number for someone who was in contributing all that money and was on the bench for a long time. Who was that? Who shut down Derpnevitz game 2006. What are we doing?

No, this is the whole thing. We're just saying, we're giving Billy the bi-est. You know what I'm actually saying. We're going to extend Billy license to do this. Asserting courtesy to some people, we should extend that to everybody. Should we not? I mean, championship culture. He's the guy here.

Back to back Eastern Conference finals, one NBA finals. And here we are all of a sudden. Couple of things. Marching orders come out and all the media's turning on him after they went and were fat shaming him years ago. It's just despicable. When you use the verb lead, it is doing a lot of heavy lifting there to say that Kyle Lowry led the team. You know, Dan, it's not all that it didn't all show up in the stat sheets.

You know what I mean? Leadership appears in many different ways. Thank you, Billy. And this is how I'm going to lead. The Miami Heat character that gets an expense account to watch these games. No, I'm not going to ask you to leave. I'm not going to ask you to leave. Where you going? I'm not asking going to lead. The Miami Heat character that gets an expense account to watch these games, no, I'm not gonna ask you to leave. I'm not gonna ask you to leave, where you going? I'm not asking you to leave. I understand why you would think that. I understand, yes, you interrupted me.

Try to be proactive. You interrupted me enough there that I understand why you would think that I was gonna send you away there. No, I'm going to promote you. I don't know about this. No, yeah, well, now we're here. Financially?

Yes, by getting an expensive account to watch these games and the heat truth telling character has to talk in the voice that he just talked when he talked about you Donis Haslam. That's how you tell the truth. I said no such name. There. After the Super Bowl and after all Star Game.

I mean, he did have some nice games last year against the Knicks in the postseason. He did. Lowry had some nice games. And sometimes when people are down they just need a little supporting. You know what I mean? To get them right back on track and that's not what we're doing here. I also was defending his first 30 games this season where he was a contributor because he was simply out there leading a bunch of these young guys while Jimmy Bam and Tyler missed games. Kyle Lowry's been an important piece to this team over the last few years.

It's just over the last several weeks, last month, his play has really gone south. The attitude has gone south as well. And no, he wasn't anything that he was supposed to be when they traded for him. Who among us hasn't gotten in a rut? Jesus Christ. No, the last month has been the issue with Cal Larratt.

I just said that it wasn't. I just said he was not everything that he was supposed to be over the last several years, but just because he wasn't that doesn't mean that there wasn't a piece that he contributed to the team. I don't understand why I'm- It's a worst trade in Miami Heat history. Wow!

What? He's not been a good player for them. And it is fitting that the Miami Heats relationship with him has become so toxic that even his trade is going to be a diminishing return. Oh man. Lucy, you look great. Thank you.

I feel great. I mean, it is. I want to extend the 80s costume. I want to also expense more costumes for Lucy that allow her to dress more 80s costume. I want, I want to also expense more costumes for Lucy that allow her to dress more 80s more often. I'm gonna do 70s too. I think I would be better for the 70s because I know more about that decade.

I don't know shit about the 80s. Triggle down economics, that's all I know. Pablo Torre is about to join us, but still got. I want to apologize to the audience for all the interesting basketball last night, and we gave him 15 minutes of Kyle Lowry. Yes, that's gotta be the wings. Wings? Nice! Where'd you order wings from?

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I was trying to read fast. UD was on the team. Luke Jackson. Bobby Jones. The Matrix, Sean Marion. Stugats! Zo, Shax, Mush Parker. Chris Quinn. D-Wave. Jason Williams. The Rolewright.

I mean, stacked roster. This is the Don Lebatard show with the Stugats. Chris Quinn. Wait a minute. D Wade. Wait a minute. Jason Williams, they're all right. I mean stacked roster. This is the Don Lebatar Show with the Stugats. I would encourage everyone viewing this on Max YouTube, the DraftKings Network, or listening to this to find a Poblotori finds out. Stugats, I have been very moved by a number of people that I respect, really smart people who pull me aside and are like, man, that podcast is unusually smart and good and has a wide range of topics.

God bless football. Poblotori finds out is the thing that they ask me about, less so about God bless football. Weird, because I think Poblotori only has one award and we have two and we're nominated for a third. Voting as a spree, by the way. That does hurt. You should vote for God bless football. Just that I've been out-awarded in this company by you and Stu.

Yeah. It hurts, but I respect it because it is an excellent show that you guys... If it makes you feel better, you've out-resourced us by a lot. It does make me feel better, actually. I'm mostly here for the resources. So Pablo Torrey finds out it's something that I encourage you to listen to and something that I wanted to talk to Pablo about. I will tell people and this has been fascinating. The business of podcasting is really interesting to me for obvious reasons, but Sturgats, you

may have noticed like this is a really interesting thing that has happened where the space has been occupied for a long time by Joe Rogan and Bill Simmons and Pardon My Take and us and all of those people either are white or look white and now Shannon Sharp is here to create disruption and Cameron as well is here and Cameron doesn't have to follow any rules about anything. He can do whatever he wants, and it's part of the reason I like that podcast. It's part of the reason that I support that podcast. And it's super interesting to watch other people come into this space with different voices

and carve out their space. It's one of the reasons that we signed up with all the smoke, because we want to align ourselves with a wide diversity of opinion and voices That in the smoke. I mean that too. Yeah, and Cameron is doing something that we have thought about doing around here and Rejected because you have to have some standards. I believe and mine might be diminished But not gonna platform a murderer in order to get his football analysis and so I've decided not to get the clicks that that would get because it will inevitably get clicks but with all of that is precursor I have known OJ Simpson

since my earliest sports childhood memories to got to the only tickets that I could get to games my father didn't have enough Money where the bad seats when Buffalo would come into town you've known of OJ Simpson you didn't know I'm growing up that you know but I've been observing him for a long time and I've known him since like I've talked to him several make it sound like you're Kato over here okay I'm not Kato I have been in his company a number of different times and what I've never seen because he's so calculated so rehearsed so careful what I've never seen is him bare his teeth and show you the killer the way that he did

when he was talking to Cameron. You think I'm gonna shoot the fear one, Ben? You out your mind? You're 6'10". I'm going str- The shit that I'ma do is ridiculous. I'm from the danger zone. You gotta Google that shit.

Oh, go Google Lennox Avenue to the danger zone. Go Google Lennox Avenue to danger Zone, 139th Street. See what we do for a living. And when you come back next week, you'll be like, OK, I'm you from over there. My job is just going to kill hill projects. I spent some time in some other kind of project. I spent some time in some other kind of project. No, I spent some time in some other kind of project, too. Yo, let me tell you something about that real quick.

You never heard nobody f*** with me. Yo, how many of you get in the beef? I ain't even, I'm not beefing with you. How many of you get in the beef? I'm gonna help you with this. I'm gonna help you with this. There we go, that's my man. That is as close as I've heard OJ Simpson come to saying,

I've killed two people. Pablo, your thoughts. Well, that in that book where he was like, but if I did, this is how I would have gotten away with it. He's still looking for the person who did it, right? On the golf course. Pablo, your thoughts on all of that? Yeah, so first off, there is no show that I enjoy

clicking on more than The Cam and Mays Show. It is what it is. It is my guiltyest pleasure. I love it. Cam is hilarious. My favorite part of that video, which I had to revisit before talking to you guys today, though, to Dan's point, is how that interview starts, because what Mace says, so Cam, for people who are familiar with Camron, Killa Cam,

Mace addresses Cam by saying, yo, Killa, I wanted to ask you something going forward. At the beginning, and just watch and listen to OJ as he hears someone address someone else by the word killer. If you could play that video, I don't know if the video department has it. Yes. But that would be tremendous. Hey, your killer, I'm gonna ask you something before we go forward. Play it again. Play it again, please.

Your killer, I'm gonna ask you something before we go forward. And that's a confession. I mean, that is as close you will get to OJ just being like, I can be myself here, right? And so that show, I mean, dad, on PopoToray finds out, one of my first ideas was to find out truly the identity of the guy who held the phone for OJ when he's taping those videos from the golf course,

like doing his fantasy football talk. And it was decided that that was too dangerous, right? Like, are we really going to like do an OJ thing? Are we really gonna tell the story of OJ and make light of it? And so I am just glad that through proxy, through ham and mace, I can actually indulge in, I think, a genuine fascination that everybody has stayed away from. Like men's magazines, GQS, you know this, Dan.

Like an OJ profile by now would have been done if not for the whole allegedly murdering people thing. And the only place he can be platformed with that level of intimacy and welcome obviously is gonna be on a pseudo-sitarical but actually real sports show hosted by two former ops. But to watch OJ's ascent through the labyrinth, Stugatz, the OJ Simpson documentary that our friend Ezra Edelman made, the funniest thing in it was OJ Simpson pivoting after all of the shit came his way

and he's wearing a dashiki in a church because now he's going to be maximum black guy when earlier in the documentary what you're seeing is him saying I'm not black. Like in I'm someone, I'm OJ. I can fit in any place and now this begins his rehabilitation because he is charming Pablo. Like this is normalizing OJ Simpson now. Is OJ Simpson going to be allowed a reinvention because media standards have crumbled and these guys don't have to listen to media standards

and they can get more popular and get rewards. Stu gots to try to get OJ Simpson on God bless football for three years. Yep, every week. It's that look, I've been trying to get Ricky Williams to connect me to OJ. He agreed at one point apparently. Like Ricky had known OJ from back in the day

as he gets some running backs club or something, whether that's real or figurative. And so I have been trying to get to him too. But the question of like, will he ever be held to account? You know, I think one thing that's safe to say as much as I love that show that we're playing clips from, they're not exactly deposing OJ Simpson. Oh no, but Pablo, as the media crumbles, that's the place people

are gonna go places like that are where they can be interviewed safely but opposing OJ like we still want that we expect them to do that I just want to ask him who's gonna win the AFC NFC championship game I mean that's deposing well it just feels like at a certain point right there are questions that he has never actually admitted answers to. And to Mike's point, he did write a book in which he basically said, if I were to admit these answers, here's how it would go.

So maybe it's a settled, maybe it's settled law. Maybe you're right on that, Stugatz. But it just feels like the question is, when do any of us feel icky? And I think if you are in anything resembling the business of accountability and news, you can't ignore that. Pablo, I think that loses now.

I think the currency now is attention, doesn't matter how you get it, and people hate the media, they don't care about the media standards, they're not the average person's standards. I think that loses. They also care about catching people on their own hypocrisies.

They love that. And platforming O.J. Simpson while other shows take other moral stances, including this one, that would be quite the hypocrisy. There's reasons why you don't platform O.J. Simpson, or at least this show doesn't. Editorially, it's a bad decision. It's nasty. We've all, for the most part, have reached general consensus that he got away with murder. And in the civil trial, he was found responsible for it. So there is an exploration here that's interesting as to why that show can do it and the way that certain people project standards from people that approach media from a more conventional space as opposed to an unconventional background.

But let's be clear, OJ Simpson isn't on other shows because OJ Simpson is believed to have murdered two people. Pablo? Yeah, it's funny, I text Ezra clips from that show, Ezra Edelman clips of that show and clips of OJ, and he's just not interested at this point. I'm trying to bait him back in because as well. He did with OJ made in America, the greatest documentary I've ever seen is he did a right around OJ refused to participate. Right. So this question of also like this is the larger picture of media is that if you don't give a shit, and I credit in many ways

Camin Mace's ability or just lack of need to give a shit, if you don't give a shit, you can you can platform whoever you want. And if you are trying to do something that tells a cohesive story that is fair to all of the parties who have ever been impacted by this person, well, it's a lot like, do we carry Donald Trump's press conferences live on CNN? That was a debate happening this week inside of CNN's newsrooms. And everyone's like, well, it's something people would watch.

It's newsworthy on its face because people would want to watch it because it's something that is definitely new. But do we do this because we have to consider victims? Whether that be victims in a literal sense, or people who are being slandered and lied about, who are being impacted by this guy's rhetoric. But Pablo, the decision that's being made

when capitalism is near media, one of the victims is going to be the media because CNN, if it doesn't show Trump, loses the viewers that it gets with Trump. CNN is dying, at least in part, because it doesn't show Trump, loses the viewers that it gets with Trump. CNN is dying, at least in part, because it doesn't cover Trump. Well, what I want to make the distinction about here is that it's very easy for the people to say, we want everything. We can actually handle the truth.

I hear of a big Ramaswamy, my former classmate, who's now vociferously endorsing Trump's say of this all the time. I am here for truth. We can handle it. And in all of these platforms that are not actual newsrooms, and I group weirdly, Cam and Mace, into this group too, alongside everybody who likes to put on Trump and do it without any sort of standard or inspection journalistically, you don't want truth either, right? Because you're not asking the hardest questions.

The difference between CNN and them though, is that CNN has a newsroom that has standards that are meant to, they're meant to say Dan, in an increasingly unprofitable world, we care about whether the truth in that journalistic sense is being served. And so it's really easy to run against those institutions that are scoldy and moralistic and censoring.

The truth is dying, Pablo. The truth, what are you talking about? You're criticizing a show that you yourself enjoy. Like think about what you're doing there. I just wanna be entertained. I don't care about anything. I just wanna be entertained. I feel like media right now needs a commission.

I look and I am volunteering to be the commissioner of sports media. Okay, put it on the pole. You should be the commissioner of sports media. The guy that just admitted that he wanted to have OJ on. That's right. Look, I fully understand the entertainment impulse. I want it.

I'm guilty of it. All I'm saying though is that those people, whether you're Pat McAfee or Cam or whoever else wants to put on a Trump rally uncensored with no editing or no footnoting, you're just not interviewing. You're not doing news. And so you just got to be very clear about what it is and what it isn't and all we have Dan as journalists or the The smoldering embers of what journalists used to be inside of us is to say here's the degree of difficulty We accept because there is a standard we want to hold ourselves to and it's easier and more fun to go the other way And I myself nobody cares about Pablo. nobody cares about the standard like we have more so you're very no one is we have no one is more self-obsessed about being interested in the media standard than the media and

the standards dying the standards losing it's losing to capitalism and truth is losing and no one cares about what our fucking standards are if you guys care about the truth we can talk about Paul Pierce later oh jeez we need to do that let's get Pablo out of here. I love that we had Pablo on. The next Walter Cronkite, Paul Pierce bring him in. Yeah, please. We are not talking in bead with Pablo. Pablo Torrey finds out. He's the MVP of the league. Thank you for being here. Greatest player ever seen. We'll find out if he wins a championship or not. There it is. See you later Pablo. Goodbye.