The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Pablo Torre Is Desperate For External Validation | Hour 3

Episode Date: May 19, 2026

"When does Goliath become Goliath?" Pablo has an eloquent way of articulating Victor Wembanyama's emergence as a great player in the NBA, because, of course he does. Tony tries to take him down a peg, the same way Pablo does for Oz the Mentalist in his latest episode of PTFO. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is the Dan Levator show with the Stucats podcast. That's right. All right, you know what? Let's do this again. It's Thursday Thunder. No, let's keep this going. Five, four, three, two. You should leave all of that in, by the way, all of it.

Thanks, Dan. Leave all of it in. No choice now. Against the spread. We'll keep it in. Is brought to you by Draft Kings. We'll keep it in. Draft Kings.

The crown is yours. We'll keep it. Roy. On Wednesday. The Western Conference Final gets underway with game one between Vegas and Colorado. I'm not going to have any stats for you here. It's going to be Colorado against the spread. They are one and a half goal favorites in that game.

And on Wednesday at 8 o'clock, please tune in because the hockey show has a watch-along for game. Game one of the Western Conference Final. So please join us for that game. Tony, all right, we're going to stay in the association. New York Knicks. He was not in the association. He was not in the association. It was clearly not in the association

because I'm calling back to the last time I did against the spread. You know, hockey and the NBA are not together. You're not listening to what I'm saying. I'm talking about the last time I did against the spread. I was in the association. Now I'm staying in the association, and I'm going with the New York Knicks minus seven and a half against the Cleveland Cavaliers.

I know the Knicks have been on the bench for a while because it's been seven and a half. They're on the bench? Are you going to let me talk? You're just going to interrupt me every single time. I'm sorry to do this to you, Tony. Minor penalty, two minutes for leaking confidence. And now Pablo's there laughing.

It's like you're going to stay in the penalty box, actually. Okay, seven and a half against the spread, take the Knicks tonight. I know they've been out for a while. Whatever, who cares? It's you. Give me an ass spread. Mike Wilbon says that it's the junior varsity game tonight. Do I have to go?

Yes. You got to spend two minutes. I wanted to talk to Pablo. So bad about the Knicks. How about the Pulitzer? You want to talk to him about the Pulitzer? Before we get to Pablo, just an update. LeBron says he plans to, quote, recalibrate with my family and talk with them and spend some time with them, end quote, over the next few weeks to inform his decision about retirement.

Over the last year, I spent some time with Amin and Izzy. And we also talk to people like Jim Gray and John Skipper about the decision. We talked to people like Jamel Hill, Kerry Champion, Pablo, Iman Schumpert about race and policy. and fame and championships and legacy and yes retirement it's a limited series we're calling the step back it's about recalibrating and appreciating the influence of the influence of lebron james it's uh something we're proud of it's something informed episode two drops today on our podcast feeds it's all about the decision uh jeremy is already forgetting about lebron and declaring Wemby, the best basketball player who has ever existed after last night's game.

Pablo, what's fair in terms of hyperventilation when a 22-year-old does something that hasn't been seen this deep in the playoffs since Shaquille O'Neal in his prime? It's fair to say that I think we have a new main character, like officially. I think the LeBron comparison is really inappropriate sort of precedent. The question has always been when LeBron leaves and LeBron was doing this. of course, for one zillion years at a level that demanded that we take him seriously and paying him attention. What's going to follow? And we got, of course, Steph and we got KD. But in terms of a singular character that is really meant to be the next like phase of this TV show, that's what

Wembe is. And he's not the same, obviously. He's very different from LeBron in multiple ways. But who is going to be the son of our solar system. Like, that's what we're really talking about. And because Steph coexisted with LeBron, it was never going to be Steph because LeBron still existed. But now I think this whole retirement, will he, won't he, how is that going to be handled into this game? If you see of the NBA, the potential for television for a show, like, this has been the

greatest relief to Adam Silver imaginable in an otherwise really hard year for Adam Silver managing lots of different crises. So your vote would be on our Twitter poll. He's more likely to save the sport than ruin it? Absolutely. Who's saying he's going to... What's the argument for ruining it? Is that he's going to be too good? Is that the argument?

Unfair. Like, it's not going to be close, you're saying that he's going to be beyond what Michael Jordan did. He's going to just collect everything. Michael Jordan was the size of a mortal. Michael Jordan wasn't bigger than everyone else. We don't usually celebrate the Giants. That's

a thing. Well, I think what's going to happen, though, and I'm already sort of detecting it because I unfortunately have to also try and see around the corner of like, how does this story turn, is right now you have Goliath, who's also David. And that's such a special honeymoon. Dan, like the idea, and again, the internet, Adam Silver notably, the commissioner of the NBA in that Atlantic piece, there is this indication that he is on a burner account, essentially, just reading all of NBA Twitter. And what you saw over the last 24 hours in this focus group is that everybody is in on Wembe. Like even the people who tried to figure out what's the zag here, everyone's like,

we must genuflect. And so you have Goliath in the way that you just described, seemingly unfair proportionally in all of these senses, who's also David, his underdog, because he is so young, because this seems still unlikely. And the question will be, when does Goliath just become Goliath? And the villain. I think the villain arc is going to be, I don't know how many years it'll take for us to get there. Maybe it'll be after he wins three titles and he's actively threatening the goat conversation in a way that doesn't feel like you're trying to get in on early with something, but rather just saying what's clearly being demonstrated in front of us.

But at that point, you're going to get the utility of a different sort of character, which is the bad guy. and that, how he manages that, is going to be also super fascinating. Pablo, he's not already the bad guy now after a huge elbow to Nas Reid. After just, I don't know, there's a tinge of evil I see in his eyes. And maybe I'm just early. Maybe I'm, maybe I'm a kook, right? Maybe I'm the guy saying the sky is falling. A tinge of evil?

I think he's evil too. There's a tinge of evil in his eye, Dan. I don't like the tinge of evil. The way he says, what, climate? Nobody, everybody's been very quiet about the climate. recently. Anyways, long story short, he's got a tinge of evil in his eye, Pablo Tori, and I don't know if you can see it as a guy who kind of sees something sometimes. We did do an episode today about O's the Mentalist, whose whole job, his legend is that he notices things, nonverbal cues, pupil dilations, lip flutters, all of these things. And if you are seeing, they call it in the law, Tony,

they call it mens rea, malice, right? The tinge of evil has a legal sort of basis. And if you're saying that you see in Victor Wambayama, the sort of like Darth Vader he's about to become. Thank you. Look, play this back, Dan, assuming we haven't been hit by an asteroid in five years. Like, Tony might be ahead of the curve. Hold on a second. That is the take that he wants to make. Hold on a second.

O's the mentalist. It's Oz. No, it's O's. No, it's Oz. They regret to inform you Zaz that it is O's. No. I have not been this stunned since they told me, told me that Dr. Seuss is actually Dr. Soiss.

No, that's not true. Get on. That's like GIF versus GIF. I refuse at this point. Old school and finally. We're not doing that. What do you mean we're not doing that? You just did the same thing.

You just said something. O's the mentalist is not something any of us had heard. Well, I think that's just because a lot of this country is watching these clips on mute. And they're like, I get the gist. I'm scrolling past this. O's as, look, I. It's the wizard of O's? The Wizard of O's.

I am not saying it's the Wizard of O's. The show on H.P.O. is not O's. I hate you guys. We didn't do anything. We didn't do anything other than get befuddled. You stunned us with O's the mentalist. None of us call him O's the Mentalist. Well, look, I am not here.

How did I... I just published an episode with this guy who debunks mentalism and specifically O's the Mentalist. And now you're making me into a guy who wants to ride for O's the Mentalist just because I know what his name is pronounced like.

That is the quagmire that I am finding here. We're showing our ass guys. Because the guy is in many ways, allegedly performing fraud. So my schedule gets a little chaotic this time of year. Most days I'm here at the Metal Arc studios and then I'm heading straight to another broadcasting or hosting gig. And especially in this

Miami heat, it's insane. And not the Miami heat, but the Miami summer heat. I've been trying to keep at least one healthy habit consistent. And that's why I've been bringing Kachava's new travel packs with me. It's one less thing I have to worry about, which is great because I'm already spending enough mental energy figuring out what shirt is acceptable to wear on camera or hosting or on the show that I'm not going to get made fun of for. So I just throw one in my backpack and I've got an all-in-one nutrition shake ready whenever I need it. It's packed with plant-based protein, fiber, vitamins and minerals, greens, probiotics, electrolytes, and more. So even when my schedule is all over the place, I know I'm getting something good in. It tastes great. It's easy

to take anywhere, and there are no fillers. No nonsense. Take your daily ritual with you. Go to kachava.com and use code Dan for 15% off your first order. That's 15% off your first order. That's Kachava, K-A-C-H-A-V-A-com. For 22 years on this show, we've debated the greatest athletes of all time. Who's the goat in football? Who's the goat in soccer? Who's the goat in hoops? One thing that we all know is Dan's the goat of finding the worst possible take.

But there's another kind of MVP-gote that doesn't get enough credit. The friend who knows to show up with enough Miller Lights. plus extra ice, because they just know. The one who already has seats at the bar when you walk up, that is a Miller time MVP. I've been on this show long enough to know that Dan is going to make everything about his feelings and Jeremy is going to push back on whatever I just said. But here's something nobody on this show will argue with.

Miller Life is the summer beer. The original light beer since 1975. This summer recognize your MVP's. We all have that one friend who makes every game better. Now it's time to give them their moment. Head over to Miller Lite's social media pages to learn more about being a Miller Time MVP. You can pick up some Miller Light pretty much anywhere they sell beer.

It's Miller Time. Celebrate responsibly Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 96 calories, and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. You can always tell when a new business trend shows up because suddenly everyone starts talking like they invented it. Right now it's AI. Every company says they have an AI strategy. every consultant says they have an answer.

Meanwhile, most businesses are still out here trying to figure it all out. And that's why there's NetSuite Next. You probably already know about NetSuite, the AI-powered business management suite, trusted by more than 43,000 customers. It securely connects your financials, inventory, commerce, HR, and CRM into a single source of truth. But NetSuite Next takes it even further. AI is built into everything you do. It services custom insights throughout your day.

AI agents help solve problems and handle routine work, and when you have a question, you can simply ask it like you're talking to a colleague. NetSuite is customized for a wide range of industries so it supports the way your business works. Whether your company earns millions or even hundreds of millions, it's time for NetSuite Next, where your business meets AI. For the first time ever, you can try NetSuite Next for free.

If your revenues are at least seven figures, go to netsuite.aI slash DLB, built for every industry, ready for every boardroom. NetSuite.AI slash D-LB. Don Lebertard. Is there back in my day? There is, actually. Are you not going to tell anyone?

Wait a minute. You guys, it's a Tuesday. It's a Tuesday. Stugats. Here's your guy. Greg Cody, with Back in My Day. Okay, here it is. Sorry.

Adultery. Oh. Yeah. We are back. That is the rated for this one. This is the Dan Lebatar show with these two gods. Let me ask me this question. Do you find him impressive?

Yes. Because I'm, look, I'm trying to, he is like the new David Blaine and so far. Do people in the container, do you guys respect the David Blaine sort of like? Yes, again, LeBron to Wembe. We're talking David Blaine to O's the Mentalist. We're not even talking about the same zip code. No, no. David Blaine did feats of amazing strength.

And on top of that, like endurance, exactly, extreme things. O's the mentalist reads, you know, Joe Rogan is his credit card number and everybody freaks out. Like, this guy is not David Blaney. He could not even sniff David Blaine. But it's impressive. What did he do in your episode? Pablo Tori finds out is the Pulitzer Prize winning podcast as a part of Metal Arc Media. What did he awe you with anything that he did?

Because they're magic tricks, right? Well, this is the key thing is that O's did not respond to a request for comment. not a guest on the show. The way we did the show was there is a guy in Australia whose name is Stevie Baskin. He works at a law firm and he did his own five-hour dissection of this. And O's, when I saw that five-hour video, O's was somebody that I had been frustrated by. Because the question, I love magic. I love going to magic shows. I have friends who are magicians. And I have been asking around like, what do you think of this guy? And these, you know, are people, Dan, who normally are like the number one most important thing that they fear with

me is that you will violate the secret agreement to not reveal how tricks are done because they want to preserve a sense of wonder around magic. And I, again, love going to magic shows. I get it. I've pretty much respected that. But with this character, oh, is when you ask other mentalists and magicians about it, their response is, screw that guy. That guy is a problem. That guy is what he's doing is not okay. And so it raised this question of like, so why? Why do they feel that way? What are the norms around a code of ethics around mentalism that he is violating?

And that's what the episode is about. How does he do it? And then why should you care? Aren't all magicians liars? What's different here? And I think it speaks to a code, a code that once you see it, I think, this is my argument. it makes what he is, which is the most viral and platformed and most successful magician slash mentalist on the internet. The guy who was in between Donald and Melania Trump at the Wayness Correspondence Dinner, right?

That's where he was. He's been in every locker room, every sports show. He's been on this very show before. His whole thing becomes suddenly extraordinarily different when you realize how he does his best tricks. And that's what the episode is fundamentally about. He's a Pulitzer Prize winner and a respecter of magic. He's Pablo Torres-Zaz. What do you have for Pablo, the respecter of magic?

Pablo, you said plural. Magicians. You have friends who are magicians. You're telling me that you have multiple friends whose career is magic. Absolutely. I'm a friend to magicians. Pulitzer prize winner. I marvel at their own.

I think, look, magic to me is a mystery that the magician is daring the audience to solve. And so the question, I mean, Penn and Teller, by the way, I consider the gold standard here. They call themselves honest magicians, which feels paradoxical because of course a magician is there to con you. But really what the magician is doing is creating a set of parameters through which the audience cannot solve this puzzle. And so how is it possible that owes the mental? does things that are unexplainable within the parameters, within the rules that he is himself saying he is following. And what he says over and over again is, we do not use superpowers. I'm not a psychic. I don't read minds. What I do after 30 years of reverse engineering human behavior is read

body language. I read how your nonverbal cues are suggesting the truth that you are holding that you are not saying aloud. And he's sold books. He's toured on this basis. The difference between magic and mentalism says is that mentalism is seemingly a skill that you can learn if you watch O's and listen to him closely enough. You too can do the thing of reading what eyeballs are telling you by fluttering around, by reading someone's posture, the way they hold their hands. You can in fact divine the names of their childhood best friends and their pin codes and all of this. And of course, what he is actually doing, spoiler alert, is a lot of stuff he does not disclose that has infuriated all of his competitors, not merely because he is winning so much, winning all this money, followers fame, but because he is abusing the basic parameters that he is setting out as his constraints.

And there is dishonesty among thieves that the other thieves in this metaphor cannot abide by. How is he going to feel about this episode? I mean, he didn't respond, his reps didn't respond for comment. I think the fear, and this is something that I thought a lot about, the fear is if people know how the thing is done and they realize how much less impressive it is when you see the mechanics of it. And some of the characters that emerge, by the way, in the tape that we've been sort of like film rooming here, like it's game tape, it's Charles Barkley.

It's the bussing with the boys guys. It's sports hosts. Because what O's has done by running these plays over and over again is inevitably run the risk of revealing some of those seams and sutures around how he's actually doing it. And Charles Barkley, for instance, in one example that we play, calls it out totally unwittingly and reveals, in fact, that this is all a, again, an alleged equivalent of, fraud in a way that I think O's would be bothered to hear, not just because that accusation feels weighty that Stevie Baskin makes in our episode, but also because if people know how

the trick is done, then he can't do the trick anymore. And he does these tricks more often and more visibly than anyone else in the business. And so I think there is, there is a concern that, like, I got to figure out something else. And that would be frustrating, I would imagine, if enough people pay attention. What do you think is reaction is going to be to hear you call him O's. I think you will feel seen and heard. He knows he's O's O's. He knows he's O's.

We were making fun of Pablo. We've been making fun of Pablo because he's on a text string with Method Man. I should have never allowed it. And he doesn't refer to him as either Method man or meth. He keeps referring to him as method. And it just seems impossibly wrong.

Pablo, are you running bid here? Are you doing the thing where you're like, I'm going to try to make this uncomfortable and like do my thing and like, I'm going to be Pablo. What was that mean? You know what that means? You know what that means?

You know what I mean? You know exactly what that means. Live from MSNBC and live from the Harvard Club and live from whatever. Yeah, Pablo. The Met Gala. Here's Pablo. He's a Pulitzer Prize winner and some sort of super futuristic building. I'm here.

Look. He's standing on the stairs and other people watching him from down low and he's standing up high. 40 podcast awards. Look at him. He's incredible. Oh, my God. That's what I mean You have me in a super future, like Avengers Tower?

Yeah. Like where the Jetsons live? Exactly right. Exactly right. You accepted the Pulitzer Prize and you were standing on some sort of like red staircase and like this super futuristic building. And then everybody was looking over you and I was like, oh my God, he's here, the Pulitzer Prize winner. Yes, we have reached Apex Mountain of self-regard.

As the New York Post, oh no, the Daily News. I forget who said Mount Pablo and coined that. It has come true. That's another part. Yeah. That's another part. Was it the Post? Was it the journal?

Was it the exchange? I don't remember. Was it the queen? The method thing is an example of Dan not knowing how cell phones work. So I have been adding at mentioning Method Man, who is saved in my phone as Method Man. But in my phone, his first name is Method and his last. name is man because of course you're referring to method man and so as method when you're talking to method i think if there's an ad it is a little different yeah it's bold it's so you guys get it

now it i'm tagging method man whose first name in my phone is method and uh when i tag dan i go at dan right to alert dan that i mentioned him in this conversation yeah we went From Pablo's a nerd to Dan's old real quick. Dan, you see how the contact is saved in a different way, right? You got that part? Like, if he saved Method Man the whole time in his first name, it would do it. Saving Method Man in your phone, first name method, last name man is odd. That is very good.

I would have just gone first name Method man. Yeah, but then he'd be adding Method Man in full regard the entire time. And I think that's worse. Yeah. Yeah. Again, I just, that's how I assume people want to be called. This episode is sponsored by Better Help. We've gotten a lot better at talking about our mental health than we used to, right?

People are more open about it, conversations are happening, and that's a really good thing. But asking for help? That still seems to be the hard part. Better Helps' 26th State of Stigma Report surveyed 2,000 Americans, and if it revealed that 85% of Americans believe getting support is wise, yet 74% say society discourages people. from doing so. Think about it. Most of us believe it's the right thing to do,

but we still worry about what other people might think. Maybe the best way to change that is to make those conversations a little bit more normal. BetterHelp supports fully licensed therapists in the U.S. and they handle the matching process for you. You fill out a short questionnaire and if it's not the right fit, you can switch at any time. Don't let stigma stand in the way of support. Start therapy with better help.

Sign up and get 10% off at, betterhelp.com slash dLB. That's better h-e-l-p.com slash d-l-l-b. Tony, you know that moment at a party or a tailgate where everything just sort of clicks? I know it well. It's usually when I show up. Everybody goes

crazy. Yeah, you usually take all the credit for it, but it's because Tony usually walks in with quarevo. Walking like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Quervo is a thing that turns hanging out into this is the night. It has that effect on people. It does. You usually take the credit for it. But again, it's the Cuervo effect. It's like that moment in a big game where everyone in the crowd just starts standing up, hooting and hollering. Keep it quervo. Keep it quervo, baby. Don Lebertard. You don't remember the idea for a home runoff? I was probably like, that kind of thing.

Something. Okay, no. The home run call was that kind of swing, that kind of thing. Stugats. Oh, it's a good call. Thank you. And plus, it doesn't matter. matter who's hitting it. Like you're not tailing it to a particular name. You know, all that jazz. You know, you don't got to do that. You're just a generic call. That kind of swing, that kind of thing. This is the Dan LeBatar show with the Stugats. Let's play movies. Let's play movies with Greg Cody here while Pablo's here. Let's see what we have here. Oh, God. Greg Cody doesn't know about movies. You can check it out at Greg Cody's show featuring Greg, Cody. Let's play the latest movie clip.

All right, Greg. What movie is this from? Fuck you, Brennan. I know you touched my drum set, and I want to hear that dirty little mouth admitted. Okay. Music, drums. No chance on that, though. That's true. I know you touched my drum set, and I want to hear that dirty little mouth. Touched my drum set is iconic. How many of these do you have? How many do you have left? I have like five more. All right, play them all. Let's see if he can get any of them. You don't know that one? No. No. No. That was Stubes. Brothers. Okay. Okay, here's the next one.

I'm funny how? I mean funny. Like, I'm a clown. I amuse you. I make you laugh. I'm here to fucking amuse you. What do you mean funny? Funny how? How am I funny? Oh, I like that. It's Danny DeVio. I'm close to that one. He plays a lawyer. Yes. Oh, he does. He does. He does. He does. My cousin Vinnie. Exactly.

My cousin Vinny. No, I know. No. That is no. It's not my cousin Vinny. I thought it was coming out. He's playing a lawyer. You were right on that. That's good fellas. That's not my cousin Vinny. That's good fellas.

He stars in both of them. My cousin Vinny is on the right track. Two Utes? That's my cousin Vinny. Two Utes. Play another one for him. Half credit. No.

No credit. Half credit. You called this guy Danny DeVito earlier. Zero credit. All right. Here's the next one. No. I am the father. Star Wars.

Which one? Which one? Oh, come on. That's close enough. No, no, no, no, no, it's not. There's not close enough. The original one. No.

No. No, but that's close enough. It's not close enough. Half credit. It's not close enough. For him, we're grading enough. That's a point. Greg, what are the names of the other Star Wars movies in that trilogy?

Do you know what they are? Well, I just saw The Empire Strikes Back. And the third one, it should be the Empire Strikes Back, Jack. I don't know the third one. I mean, if you just saw the Empire Strikes Back, like that's from the Empire Strikes Back. The third one has the word Jedi in it. The Return of. Put it on the poll.

Should it be the Empire Strikes Back Jack at Levitard show? And you know it. All right, I got another one. Very good. All right, all right. Oh, I love that guy. Who's that guy? It's, you know, the swaggery Texan.

Yeah. He played a lawyer. Yes, I do know who you mean. Do you know who you mean? You played a lawyer, Greg. I know his face. All right, all right, all right. What is the name of that movie? What's the name of the guy? Yeah.

I don't know. He's wearing a hat. I don't know. Cowboy hat. Nice hat assholes. No, that's a backward cap. His name is Cowboy Hat? No, I just don't know the name of the film. Say it one more time. All right, all right, all right.

to help you? Long weekend. No. That's dazed and confused. Matthew McConaughey is what you were looking for there. McCona Hay, yeah. Is it McCona Hay or McCona Hay? Is it McCona Hay or McCona He?

Macaugh. I go, hey. Hey. Hey. I have two more here. One is insanely... A human cowboy hat in Greg's defense. One of these is insanely easy, and it would be hilarious if he missed it.

The other one is kind of difficult. He definitely won't get it. All right, don't give him the difficult. one. Let's see if we punctuate this with the easy one. Here we go. To infinity. Um, the back to the future.

No. Close. You thought that was Christopher Lloyd? It's a good guess. No, it's not a good guess. What? It's not a good guess. What are you talking about?

He missed the back to the future one last time. That's ridiculous. This time is closer. He called Matthew McConaughey Cowboy Hat. I think this is a win. I think back to the future is a win in the Greg. Prize winner. Just.

anointed me a winner. To infinity and beyond. Zazzler, are you disgusted? Are you, you look disgusted? Yeah, I mean, how can you be a guy and not know these movies? Back to the future was a good guess. Well, just, the only reason

it was a good guess is because it seems like something that would be said in a futuristic time travel movie. It's not actually a good guess. I'm just giving. The more I listen to it, and I hear that voice, the more I could see crazed Christopher Lloyd saying this.

To infinity. And beyond. The and beyond. Back for the future. It's a little close. There could have been worse guesses, but it's still insanely. I mean, it's not even close. Half credit.

Did you know it yet? Have you seen like, do you know what movie this is? No. It's the most like popular animated franchise ever. One of them. To infinity. And beyond. Steamboat Willie.

All righty. No. You think Mickey Mouse is saying that. I think one of his. cohorts is the mouse has his hands on the steering wheel and there's a voice over there going to infinity and beyond you feel like that that boat's taking them to

infinity and beyond it could be what's the name of the movie it's a toy story toy story that's not from toy story that is from toy story it's the main phrase really people were arguing by the way that Woody is Tom Hanks's most popular role

put it on the poll at Lebitard show Tom Hanks's most popular role, Woody or Forrest Gump at Levitard Show? Pablo, what other details, by the way? Congratulations on your Pulitzer victory. Has it actually changed your life in any meaningful way? It's our Pulitzer victory to be very, not even self-effacing, but like true. It's Dan is the guest in one of the episodes, and he's also the person who paid for all of it.

So that's real, and it has changed a lot. I mean, insofar as I, despite Tony's characterization of me, am somebody who is always trying to figure out, like, okay, let me bring myself back to ground level and not get too high off of any given sort of award thing. And this one repeatedly has been shoved in my face, gloriously shoved in my face, is like, no, this is like first sentence of your obituary stuff. should I receive an obituary, which newspapers or media may not exist when I, by the time I die. But if obits are written, like, damn, that's what this is. And so I am both in awe of that and hardened that some stuff I've done will sort of like last in that regard. But someone pointed out to me, you know, someone who works in journalism, who knows various people who've won these things. there are two ways this goes.

One is you celebrate for months and you're delighted by it and you are also just like back to work. And the other way is that it ruins your life. And I'm hoping it's not the latter. I'm hoping that I don't get swallowed by, yeah, an even greater chase

for more because I think that in some ways like the game of external validation. This is not too real. I'm sorry. It's entirely up to you. It's entirely, that choice you just put in front of us, you get to decide that. And yes, it became too real. Put it on the poll at Lebitard show. More impressive, Pablo winning the Pulitzer or Mina Kimes winning Celebrity Jeopardy? She won Celebrity Jeopardy. She got a million

dollars for charity. Katie Nolan was among her victims that she knocked out. Have you done an episode on this with me? Have you talked to Mina about this yet? I've, without breaking too many journalistic covenants i've been awaiting this episode because sheer um the sheer delight that mina has had on her face when i ask how has it been going on celebrity jeopardy given that she is in fact the most competitive person on planet earth and people are still surprised by that dan they don't realize how competitive mina times is um the sheer delight on her face made me think that something amazing has happened in the taped episodes. And yeah, it's, it's, it's she's a monster. She's winning every game show. It's incredible. Like she won celebrity family feud. I was on her team.

She was the person who provided the million dollar answer on who wants to be a millionaire to Alan Yang who won that. She was the lifeline, the phone of friend. She is now one celebrity Jeopardy. I presume she will go on, I think Wheel of Fortune is my hope next, and she will try to become the, yeah, what is the athlete comparison to something, like the Bo Jackson of like, didn't win enough titles? I don't really know. Is there a precedent for someone who wins every celebrity game show competition? Because that is what Mina Kimes is doing. She also is the host of the Spelling Bee as, as well. She just became. Mina is going to, she's going to be the first player host, I think. He's going to beat all of those kids at spelling.

Is she beating you presently at life? Like, how competitive are you here? Because Nick Wright has proclaimed both of you to be his rivals on the young sports broadcasters who are conquering the earth. Is Mina beating you right now? I mean, I think that in the world that Mina has dominated, there is no competition. This is my thing with all of this. I'm just a, I'm just a, I'm just, glad to look up to two older journalists like Mina and Nick. I've just admired them from afar as I've

climbed up through this industry and as a younger guy, I just look at them and see what they've accomplished and I can only admire. I can only admire what they've both done. And so as a younger journalist, it really means a lot to be even in the same sentence as them, Dan. I love Nick. He's getting

his ass kick by those two. I mean, it's not even close. Come on, come on, come on. First off, love Nick Wright, respect Nick Wright. When you wire 150 grand to the win, you're winning. Yeah, and he did give us money, which was super cool. No, no, no, you're done. You're done.

I already got it. No, but next time, next time you're getting cut out. All right. I'll see you that. I'm just making sure we all understand. There's a Pulitzer, there's all the other shit. Nick Wright, don't forget this. You say the other shit, but the other shit has more cultural value than what Pablo won.

Me and Pablo loved what Pablo won. You guys love what Pablo won, but the other stuff, in a dumber America, the other stuff is the stuff that gets more. Dumber America. I tried to go to the Big Cheese. I told the guy was a Pulitzer winner who gave Flick me off and told me to go F myself. I bet Mina couldn't beat me in pop culture jeopardy. Pablo, let's set that up.

What is Tony doing in his free time exactly? He's going and. I was trying to get a reservation to Big Cheese. They don't make reservations. I walked in. I said, hey, by the way, Miami guy, we want a Pulitzer Prize. I want to pull it surprise. The guy and said, F off.

Then flick me off. What do you want me to tell you? See you later, Pablo Tori finds out is the name of the podcast. Going for two when you're up. 5. Switching the zone when man isn't working. Oh, and building your new stadium in the state your team actually plays in. In sports, some things just make sense.

You know what else makes sense? Drinking Yeager Meister shots. Ice cold. Drinking it any other way would be like punting on first down. Or letting your worst hitter bat first or like going for two when you're down three with a second to go. It wouldn't make any sense. So don't let the team down when it comes to Yeager Mey. Drink it cold?

I don't drink it at all! Yeagermeister! Damn, that's cold. Drink responsibly. Yeagermeister liqueur, 35% alcohol by volume, imported by massed Yeagermeister U.S., White Plains, New York.