The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - PTFO EXCLUSIVE: Revealed - What Jordan Poole Told Draymond Green Before the Punch Seen Around the World

Episode Date: September 29, 2023

One year ago, Draymond Green detonated the Golden State Warriors dynasty with a single punch at practice that left a million takes in its wake. Now, Oscar-winning filmmaker Ezra Edelman has an explosive "tip" — the insult you can't hear in TMZ's viral video — to test the bounds of Pablo's journalistic ethics... and set off the sports-media screaming machine all over again. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to Pablo Tore finds out I am Pablo Tore and today we're gonna find out what this sound is So that means Tremon in this case is Yoda do or do not there is no try Right after this ad You're listening to Giraffe King's Network That worked. Why do you have this show? What's the point? Because I want to find stuff out. You want to find stuff out by any means necessary.

Well, okay. We should talk about why I've dragged you here. Because the any means necessary thing is a subject that I think we should hash out. So there are a couple things you should know about my good friend Ezra Edelman, the man that I consider my journalistic conscience in a very real way. He is one of the most talented documentarians alive today. This is not exaggeration. You might remember him from the five-part eight-hour movie he made about O.J. Simpson. Also, Ezra very rarely does media unless he is absolutely forced to. He's kind of a little JD Salinger in that way.

And so when I begged him to come on my show to talk about a certain text message he received, a text message that could truly shatter the NBA internet, he felt a very real and very unsurprising, ethical dilemma. So explain just for the record here, why you are uncomfortable with me wanting to do an episode about this text.

Because it was a text that I received from someone I knew, and next thing I know, I'm sitting here across from you in a public forum talking about it. I am betraying the trust of said person who sent it to me. It was a theory about an incident that we all have seen and no one knows the truth of. And the idea of validating this rumor

and using it as a way of actually getting more listeners for your podcast versus actually getting to the truth. If in fact that's possible, that is my issue. I feel like this calls in the question in this day and age with podcasts and social media, how one actually and who actually does the real work. And as someone who takes that seriously, I question whether I'm contributing to this sort of insane sports industrial complex circus

by talking about it. You've agreed to sit down and I just want to just be honest. Yeah. Be honest. Okay. I feel uneasy. I feel trepidacious. Big word. I mean, again, when I think about my own small history, like I worked for many years,

working for real sports in the United of Gumball, to me is the certainly the... It's A Gold Standard. The Gold Standard, the apex of certainly television sports journalism. It ran for 29 years. It just last week was announced that, or two weeks ago, that this would be its last season,

which really saddens me because I think that is further proof of the sort of eroding of a certain sort of journalistic standard that exists certainly in the sports media and in or media overall. And if I can be someone who talks about something in a way that like Promotes the idea of figuring out a way to do things the right way look around Ezra and I don't know about sitting in a fancy podcast I'm I'm incredibly impressed. I'm impressed that you actually agreed to do this. Honestly, we've had a run in bed about whether you'd show up.

You can't do that, you can't sort of say, like, oh my God, please do this, please do this, please do this, please do this, please do this, and be like, oh my God, I can't believe you did this. That's not, that's like great, I've been hoodwinked. No, you've just been, you've been gilted. You've been gilted. I should be stronger than this.

I love that you are weaker than this. I should have been stronger. That's all I have to say. The backstory on why you're here, Ezra Edelman, Academy Award-winning documentarian, for my money, the greatest documentarian in America, former producer, real sports guy who has done real journalism, is because we went to dinner recently. I had dragged you there because I was telling you

all about this Brian Davis episode that I was working on, reporting, that was episode three, go listen to that, if you have not listened to that. I was explaining to you at dinner how I was reporting this complicated investigation. And it centered around a text that I received. With the point is while we were doing that whole unpacking of my journalism, you yourself got a text. You showed me the text and I have been obsessed with that text ever since I saw it. Why have you been genuinely obsessed with this text ever since? Because it was a portal into a story that has not yet been reported, but is at the forefront of

the NBA discourse. So that was a very long answer. It was a text about a rumor. Well, I should say, you Ezra, are Warriors fan? I love the Warriors. Yeah, and ironically, youra are a Warriors fan. I love the Warriors. Yeah, and ironically, you like are a super fan of this team. Oh, yeah, yeah, I'm wearing my Warrior socks right now. Of course.

You got this text from a well-placed source who knows things. They knew you'd be interested in this rumor. The text began, quote, the Jordan Poole quote, to Dremon before the punch was dot, dot, dot. BEEP. BEEP. BEEP.

BEEP. BEEP. BEEP. BEEP. Okay, so just to spell out this initial part of the text that Ezra received. In June of 2022, let's remember this. The Golden State Warriors won their fourth championship in eight years, cementing themselves

as one of the greatest dynasties in all of sports history. They had Steph Curry and Clay Thompson to the best shooters of all time. They had Dremont Green. They're most vocal player. They're defensive anchor. But now they also had a would-be young phenom. The team's offensively gifted and super cocky little brother, 23-year-old Jordan Hool. But a few months after the championship parade, this is now October 5th, 2022, the start of

training camp for their title defense season. The athletic reported, quite vaguely, that a physical altercation, that was the phrase, a physical altercation had just taken place at Warriors practice. And the very next day, TMZ released video of the altercation in question. And it was f***ing wild.

Because we all saw Jordan Poole mouthing something to Dremond Green, who then walked over to Poole. And then what you see is basically this subruder film of the modern NBA. Correct. You see Dremond Green get chested chess with Jordan Pool, and then Dremond almost steps back

as if to charge up a punch in a video game. And it's a full body effort. It's remarkable. Like he flies forward with the right hand. Yeah, it's a straight right. Yeah. A straight right. And Jordan Pool in this video collapses to the floor.

Yeah, and the warrior season collapsed along with it. The video of the punch went viral instantaneously. Obviously, it blew up the internet, blew up the entire sports news cycle, but because the video that TMZ acquired and released was security footage and did not contain any sound. But pool actually said to Dreymond, the specific thing that triggered this multi-story collapse.

That was completely unknown to the public. And it stayed that way, unreported. But that didn't stop any of us. Myself included here, from having takes. Nobody knows truly outside of the two of them, like why this happened. This is, I would like to hurt this fucking guy, Ponch. I think that's it.

This has clean as you can land on a guy too. Normally you don't land this clean. There was nothing that Poo said warranted what Dreymont did. Like how about we blame the guy the f***ing bunch of teammate. Can we start there? He has some personal stuff going on

that had nothing to do with basketball or the team and he brought it to on a basketball court. He was wrong. So Dreymont is a full participant in this industrial complex, right? And I want to point out that Dremond himself is also a podcaster. Dremond has a show that's very entertaining where he, like so many athletes, orchestrates his own self image.

Dremond Green did something that he never does. He spiked the episode he recorded about the punch. He recorded it, he spiked it, he deleted it, and they never published it. And in fact, they never re-recorded a podcast about it again. And when we recorded the episode, I hated the way I sounded. And so we simply just didn't release it. I didn't like my tone. I didn't like the things I said. I didn't like the way it came out. I didn't like it almost, if you're not careful,

it almost comes off as unremorseful and distasteful, 100% distasteful. The version of Dremon that was comfortable going on camera to talk about it directly Came in this form. I was wrong for my actions that took place on Wednesday and for that You know, I have apologized to my team. I have apologized to Jordan quite Quite frankly, if my mother saw that video, I know how my mother will feel. I know what her next reaction would be, and I know what her next step would be. And so for that, I apologize to his mother and his father

and his family, his friends that care for him. So notably, Dremon Green retreats from the world of podcasting when things get real serious. Meanwhile, all of the warriors you may recall, they take Jordan Pool side, which then led Dremon to go back on camera on TNT about 12 days later now to do like the, I might call it a little Vaseline on the lens, portrait mode, introspection, talking straight to camera. And then you kind of move to the why, you know, a part of the process of why did this

happen and walking yourself through why, the different things that can get you to why what took place actually took place. He's daring us. He's daring us to ask what the why was. It's not great. It's not great because he just apologized as he should have. He by the way should have gotten to a press conference. I don't think he took questions, but that is the correct forum versus going on his podcast.

Though obviously it would be interesting to hear what he said on his podcast. I wanna hear that deleted podcast. But yeah, going and continuing to talk about it, while not talking about it, it is not an answer. That's just ego driven and it's unfortunate. And so what I wanted to know was,

if anything else could even compare to this specific story because the most common reference point for this story is the original punch. This was Kermit Washington of the LA Lakers cold-cocking Rudy Tom John of itch of the Houston Rockets in a game on camera in 1977. But we all knew why that happened. There was a brawl. With Dreymon's punch, the new punch, there was something else here.

And this got us thinking about fighting words, basically, like what other stories involved stories, involved a genuine mystery about an unknown but violently triggering quote, some verbal act that pushed an athlete over the edge. The couple of the things that immediately come to mind are one, you know, I remember famously, I'm a huge football fan, soccer fan. Sorry. That's how you know your real soccer fans. Yeah. Yeah. I had to, you know, come correct there. The 2006 World Cup final between France and Italy. Hmm. Very tense game. And the best player on France, then it in Siddon, you know, next to you know, you see something sort of off screen on the right and you see Sadon basically bow his head in headbutt, Marco, Madarazzi in the chest. And he goes down and the next thing, you know, Zadon, the best player, historically, the best player in the history of France, one of the top five players in the history of the

game, just headbutted someone in the World Cup final. And you're like, what the fuck just was said to him to have this guy lose his sh**? What possibly could he have said to this guy to make him snap? Right, to take his beautiful bald head and level it at his solar plexus, changing everything. And I remember watching this, I remember watching that game live, to your point. And I remember also the. I remember watching that game live to your point.

And I remember also the aftermath because in the immediate aftermath again, there were rumors that, okay, Marco Matarazzi said something about Zedan's mother, right? Is it? The quote that had been circulating then was that Matarazzi called Zedan's mother, quote, the son of a terrorist whore. And quote, right? And Matarazzi, I, he denied this. He denied this like to the point of actually suing British newspapers for libel, anyone. Honestly, what I heard was that he said something about, you know, they played together at Juventus and that he said something about Zedon's younger sister. But then in April, we finally found out, or at least according to him, he did an interview where he actually validated that idea. You live in America, right? Yeah. You know the NBA. Yeah. Trash talking. Yeah. Of course my touch talking was a nothing very nothing nothing compared to the trash

talking. They love that US. Yes. And so what is that? His mother didn't touch nothing. Okay, you're for me. He's a jersey. Yeah, I say no, I prefer your season. The other incident that comes to mind is Roberto Alamo,, former Blue J, former Oriol. One of the greatest second baseman of all time. Yes. Comes from a storied baseball family, Sania Alamar, Sania Alamar Jr. Three member of the 3,000-tip club,

member of the Hall of Fame. And so uncharacteristically, there is this incident where the next thing you know, he's getting into a shouting match with John Hershbeck The Empire the Empire at home plate and then you see Alamar spitting at him Spitting at the Empire by the way We've seen plenty of players and managers go toe-to-toe all the time all the time kick dirt on umpires grow bases. We have never seen a

Lugi all the time kick dirt on umpires. Throw bases. We have never seen a lugee. Lobbed arched, propelled at an umpire's face, especially from someone who at this point, we have never seen anything but the most genial behavior from. So immediately you go, what the f*** happened? Right. What could the umpire by the way, the impartial observer ruler of this game, what could he have said to Roberto Alamar

that would have incited such a reaction? Because the reaction itself, this is the unifying threat here in all of these incidents, the reaction is itself self-destructive. To do the thing that crosses the line is to visit upon yourself consequence that surely no rational person In retrospect would want to opt into

Which speaks to Our curiosity of what was said it must have been something really really bad We should say that we never officially learned what John Herschweck said to Roberto Alamar back in 96. Alamar would claim that it was something derogatory, but it was something negative, something touchy. That's that's as much as we know for sure. But all of these episodes, these episodes that are really, really bad, they changed all of the people involved forever, which made me again think of Jordan pool and Raymon Green and Cameron. Yeah, you know, Cameron, rapper, killer, cam, Cameron Cameron also had heard rumors. It turns out about a Jordan pool it set. And Cameron actually said them.

We're saying his reasons Draymond punched him in his face. They said the first day he told Draymond Green, you know Michigan and Michigan state have beefed Draymond state. Draymond agrees for Michigan state. He's from Michigan. He told him. That's already a lifetime rivalry right? Yeah. He told Draymond, I f**king more b**ches than Michigan State than you then you wouldn't do. And then they was running Sprints of Sun. And he told Draymond, don't worry about it. You'll be in Sacramento next year.

Then he told Draymond, that's crazy. Then he told Draymond, why is your Twitter handle money green when you broke and you're not going to get a new contract and that's the one that broke the camels back with end up punching them in a face. Cameron hosts this podcast with mace by the way because of course they do. They're also a led journalist and no money, no problems. So, so all of that, that voice in specific, So all of that voice in specific led Dremon to have to deny Cameron and Macy's reporting to Patrick Beverly on Patrick Beverly's podcast.

You know, like I said, Cam stuff wasn't accurate, but you know, we know stuff that you don't say amongst me. You know, I'm saying, we know things that you have to stand on. Cam stuff wasn't accurate, but we know stuff that you don't say amongst men. We know things that you have to stand on. What does that mean? Exactly right.

This is what I wanna find out today. And so you should know that in our attempt to find this specifically out, we made calls, right? The question has been, how do you take the unsavable gossip and bring it onto the record to make it sayable, to make it news, to make it journalism? We made, here at Publicatory, finds out, more than two dozen calls.

We reached out to more than two dozen people in and around this story to attempt to investigate the text message that you got at our dinner. And I'm going to unilaterally force you to reveal that text after the break. The question that has been raised repeatedly now of what is the line? What is the line beyond which you get f***ing decked by your own teammate and a championship season is ostensibly ruined? Is a story. And so here at Pablo Toria finds out, Ezra,

we are trying to do what you think is impossible. That's a story or that's rumor-mongering. Well, this is the thing. How do we take the rumor, which is to you unsaible gossip and bring it on to the record to make it sayable and reportable and news. And so we tried. We really did try here. We requested interviews with Jordan Poole and Ray Mongrin. How'd that go? They declined through the representatives. A spokesperson from the Washington

Wizards also told us, quote, Jordan has moved on from that topic. And quote, they also told us that Jordan Poole, quote, would rather not dwell on it in long form interviews. And quote, which I think at least you can personally relate to. But this is how much Ezra, I fear your journalistic withering gaze. Because on top of Jordan Poole and top of top of dream on green on top of those reps, we also reached out to more than two dozen other people close to the situation, as they say. We reached out to the following. Andrea Guidala,

Cavanluni, Jonathan Caminga, James Wiseman, Jamele Green, Anthony Lamb, Dante, freaking Dante freaking Diven Genzo, okay? We were recreating the whole Warriors roster here. Then Warriors GM Bob Myers, okay? We talked to him. Another person close to Jordan Pool. Two other people close to Dreymon, two other people close to Steph Curry, two assistant coaches, a player development coach,

a player personnel official, a team development official, a team attendant, a physical therapist, a security guard, an equipment manager, an intern, TMZ founder Harvey Levin, and Zaza fucking Petulia. A former player who now works with the Warriors, Zaza Petulia reached out to him.

This is a Weed and Start the Fire level list of people who would not go on the record with us because this story is, is I guess two dangerous to talk about on the record for these people because it's too explosive. I don't know. But really, what does that say? You reached out to 25 people. They all said no.

What do you believe is the reason why no one would talk to you? Do you believe there's a clear organizational mandate, which would make sense, as you never talk about it? Do you think even people weren't talking to you off the record? So what does this mean? I think it means that on the one hand, yes, the warriors and the wizards both organizationally wanted this story to go away. They have no incentive to dredge this up for our,

for our yucks. But secondly, I think it speaks to the gravity of what actually happened. And so here we are, right? The moment, the moment of truth, because Ezra Edelman, Academy Award-winning documentary filmmaker. He's something, I guess.

What did the source in your phone tell you that Jordan Poole told Dreymann Green that got him punched in the face? I don't know that I even feel comfortable saying that. You saw the phone. You saw the text, so why don't you tell me? Fine. Okay, here it is. You're an expensive backpack for 30. Is what was said.

Say that again. You're an expensive backpack for 30. Is what Jordan Poole told Ray Mongrin that got him punched in the f***ing face. So when you saw that text, what went through your mind? I was electrified. Why? Because it felt like looking at the arc of the covenant.

Oh, please. I'm not kidding. I'm an MBA fan. I'm somebody who makes a living based off of like following things down rabbit holes. And when I saw that, I realized two things. Number one, I cannot believe this has not been reported yet. And number two, holy sh**.

Now I know. It's a mystery. It's an active mystery that has never been articulated despite everybody gossiping about it, despite it changing, as are literally the fortunes of a multi-billion dollar business. This text, that line, those words, you're inexpensive backpack for 30, is what we now believe is explosive enough to be the thing that set off Dremond Green. How long after reading that text, in matters of seconds, minutes, hours, did it occur to you that I think I'm going to do a podcast about this. 0.001 seconds. But it was because I needed to track it down and I needed to translate this. We still need to translate this, right?

Like, you're an expensive backpack for 30. Let's diagram the sentence. 30 is who in this case. Steph Curry. Yes, that's right. Number 30, number one in your heart, Steph Curry, is the 30 in question. You're an expensive backpack for 30.

Expensive. Like, this is not like, oh, this is the 30 in question. You're an expensive backpack for 30. Expensive. Like this is not like, oh, this is like Louis Vuitton. This is Dremont Green making $25.8 million a year expensive. And contextually, knowing that there's a lot of money issues surrounding the Warriors and that Dremont Green was gonna be up for a contract extension after last season. Yes.

And Jordan Poole was also going to be up for a contract extension. Yes. The idea of money was swirling in the air. It was the thing that Drain Montgreen I am told was actively worried about, insecure about anxious about. Drain Mont had told people I am told that he believed last season would be his final season in golden state. This was going to be his last dance. And here was Jordan pool, the guy about to

take his money in the zero sum game of Joe Lake of owner of the Warriors pockets. The thing that he had earned as the best defensive player and anchor of future Hall of Famer on this team. So expensive. Backpack. Well, I guess that means that it's a good line. Steph's been carrying him. It's a good line. It is a good line.

What's your favorite game? What's your favorite game? Like I'm now imagining, just Dreimon is an actual backpack here. Like being carried by Steph Curry, like almost like, you know, like he's on his back, like Yoda actually, or like a baby in a baby Bjorn. How's your art department? Can you come up with that image?

Oh yeah, we're on this now. Okay. I like them almost like in a video game sequence together, where Dremont hops onto Steph's back and they together like combine to punch Jordan Poole. So that means Dremond in this case is Yoda. Well, I mean, look, like Yoda, Dremond clearly believes, do or do not, there is no try. I do, by the way, I do think the analogy of Steph Curry being Luke Skywalker is not a terrible one.

I agree. He definitely does is a practitioner of the force. He definitely is a force for good. Yep. In our league and in our world. And I believe that in the end, he is going to conquer and extinguish the dark side. Such a warriors fan. You're like an actual, you're an actual warriors fan who I want to also remind that the reason now journalistically why we do transparently feel comfortable saying any

of this stuff is because we got another source to verify at least that this is a thing, that the warriors are all talking about internally. One warriors official, close to this situation, and this is real, the person who did call us back incidentally, that official independently confirmed to us here at Publicatory finds out. That this phrase, you're an expensive backpack for 30, has in fact been floating around the organization

as the tipping point, the thing that set off Dremont? But he does not in fact know that that is the thing that was said. This is also true. Do you believe that this confirmation, corroboration, information that you learned justifies us sitting here and having this conversation right now. I do. I do because I think newsworthiness is, look, it's like pornography.

Really? What? You don't like the Supreme Court? You don't like the quote? You know what I'm going at, right? I'm aware of the quote. You know when you see it. I know it when I see it. And this story to me clearly is newsworthy,

the idea that there is a line, well crafted as it is, that the employers of these two men have all heard and identify as plausibly the trigger that set off the demolition of a dynasty, you might worry and argue. Yeah, that's, I would wanna know that. I think that is in the public interest. So how on a Troy was the face that launched a thousand ships?

Is that right? I believe. Something like that. What do you actually believe is the real fallout of this punch? What do you believe as we sit here a year after this happened? Do you actually believe was caused by this one incident? I believe that this punch is a crossroads.

I think this crossroads landed upon the body of Jordan Poole, and this was where a lot of decisions were actually made. That affected a multi-billion dollar organization, nine figure decisions. It affected the championship defense that never was of your favorite team. I mean, you tell me, you're the warrior's fan, you're the guy wearing the socks.

You're telling me that this punch wasn't the most important thing that happened to this team in the last year? It was the most important thing that happened to the team in the last year, but I'm just not sure that trying to figure out what was said, that incited this incident matters at all at this point, because like the warriors and the wizards and Jordan Poole and Dremon Green, I would like to move on to this season, even though I'm f***ing sitting here

and talking about this with you. And the only reason I'm doing it is because I'm aware, one, you guys did your homework and you actually got somewhere with this and you corroborated the text message and that's why I'm comfortable sitting here and talking about it now. And secondly, I do believe that

when media day happens next week with the Golden State Warriors and the Washington Wizards, that I believe the topic will come up again. Yes. So in that, I don't think the thing is dead. So I feel comfortable as the person that is... I'm not necessarily bringing this back to life, or you're not bringing it back to life.

So I'm like, whatever, it's fine. And by the way, no one listens to your show. Not with that attitude. But no, I get it. Like we're doing a bit of a pre-mortem. A pre-mortem. Yeah. Do you know any other pre-mortems? I can't have never heard this term. It is a little, it's a little like hanging the mission accomplished banner on the aircraft carrier. Admittedly. Okay. See, because I want- And we know how that turned out for America. Oh, worked out great.

It worked out great. We did it. The human question here is, is actually like a viable and, and, and fascinating one. Because it's the question of like, why did Raymond Green react like this? This was his why. This is the why he never wanted to disclose that he deleted a podcast over, that he never published and has never podcasted about on the record. This is the one thing that caused him to snap in this way.

And by the way, like what I am told again, a little bit more reporting, is that Dremond not only believed that last season was going to be his last season with the Warriors, the team that drafted him the thing that he clearly invested his own ego into. And vice versa, I was told that money's his biggest insecurity. Like, you're an expensive backpack for 30 speaks to an anxiety that he has about not just his financial status, but also his ambitions to be taken seriously

as a justified businessman who stands on his own two feet. Who goes, I mean, the one time I met Dremond was at CES. Was in Las Vegas, CES is the consumer electronics show. It's the biggest tech conference convention in America. And he was there because it turned out, he was hanging out with Maverick Carter and LeBron's business people. I was doing a story actually about LeBron

and his business empire for ESPN. And Raymond was hanging around trying to glean the financial wisdoms that he could. So money being as explosive as sex or any other insult, like I think that's kind of revealing about what it is that makes somebody tick. Do you believe that if the media landscape, sports media landscape had been different in the mid 90s when Jordan punched Steve Kerr? Yeah.

If it were a story at the time, if there had been video, if they as a team and Phil Jackson, Michael Jordan, were forced to speak about this and answer questions about this, do you actually believe that would have affected the success of that team? Mm.

Yes. I do. I think, look, one through line through all of these stories, these dynasties, how do they go well or how do they go bad? There's a presumption that they did it because of psychological fortitude. You know, you're strong or you're weak.

And Michael Jordan is the strongest, and he's the most resilient, and he does not get bothered by any of this sh**. And Steve Kerr clearly was strong because he did not get derailed by this. He made the shot. But they did not get tested in this way. Why would I assume that they wouldn't be affected by it?

They did not live under the rigors of the test that now you and I are part of. Is it harder to be a professional athlete now than ever? So this is, it's interesting, right? Like this was an argument made on behalf of LeBron by Rich Paul recently on the record. He said that Michael Jordan is not the goat because he never had to deal with what LeBron dealt with. And I think on the level purely of pressures of the test, right, like I know Michael Jordan was followed around

by everybody globally, and that was real. Michael Jacksonian in that way, but the internet did not exist. I buy that. I was going to say, what do you think about all of this? I blame TMZ. Like I do, I actually believe that as awful as that incident was and as awful as the punch was, I think the video of it is the thing that made, I mean, I'm this is a weird thing

to say. Like I don't even know what it, as I'm saying. It's like, the video of it, the publication of the video of it, made the thing which already had happened so much worse. Yes. The idea that seeing someone exact that kind of violence on another human being, it does sort of irreparable sort of damage to, in the minds of people who are watching that person do that.

It is a proof that like whatever we heard that there was a scuffle and practice or a fight and practice and Dremon hit Jordan pool, nothing that could be written or spoken about could do justice to seeing that. Yes, I believe that I have an increased empathy, maybe, when you think about, as we're talking about Dremon, and what would have incited him to do such a thing, because yes, he's a human, he's going through these things, he feels vulnerable and insecure. Again, not justifying anything that he did, like far from it, but it's interesting on the other hand about Jordan Poole. I'm talking about the idea of well

What happens then ultimately when you get a contract? Yes, and how that affects a human being who's 23 years old at Time and all of a sudden is a you know Multi multi-hundred you know hundred dollar hundred million nine figures a nine figure player You've made it that has to fuck with your psychology Like getting punched in the face like that, like even by someone who, like, even if that person hated you, and like it was just, the whole thing was completely unjustified. There's no way someone doesn't internalize that action

of how you got to that point and that someone actually did that to you and you're, And so that is like beyond 100%. It's like, I feel, yeah, it's like, it's humiliating. It's not just damaging, it's not just painful, it's emasculating, right? Like this is what Drainmon was referring to when you ended up like apologizing in the press conference to Jordan Poole's parents. Because he was sort of bowing at the altar of like, even if Dremont believes that Jordan

Poole had this coming, which I believe that Dremont believes, by the way. I also know that Dremont understands why this is uniquely shameful for both of them. Do you believe that Dremont actually has been changed as a human being as a result of this? So I don't know him personally. I don't. But I believe that what makes him great is what made him punch Jordan pool in the face. It's the hair trigger of, at any moment, I am going to summon something inside of me that feels unreasonable, unreasonably amazing. You know, I'm going to block this shot. I'm going to make this pass. I'm going to read a defense, set up the orchestra for Steph Curry, and unreasonably awful.

I'm going to get thrown out of a game in the NBA finals. I'm going to punch my teammate in the face. I'm going to be despite all of it, despite my resume, unimpeachable, as the best defensive player on this team, I'm going to be teammate in the face. I'm gonna be, despite all of it, despite my resume, unimpeachable, as the best defensive player on this team, I'm gonna be a thing that my employer wonders

am I worth it? Because I cannot be trusted. And that lack of trust is also why he's special. I believe it is the same coin. The Warriors gave him $100 million before your contract, $25 million a year. I personally believe and have to believe that they traded Jordan Poole for his arch nemesis,

Chris Paul, who's basically called his arch nemesis. I have to believe and I genuinely think that Dremon is a brilliant basketball player. I don't listen to his podcasts because I don't listen to podcasts. It's pretty good. But I use a smart dude. I enjoy when I see him on TNT.

I absolutely believe that he's evolved. I think, comically, if you see that, like, wait. Now it's like, oh, I got Chris Paul for Jordan Fool. Like, it's not like the universe is telling him something. He's gonna have to's like, oh, I got Chris Paul for Jordan Paul. Like it's not like the universe is telling him something. He's gonna have to, like, he's gonna have to take it into him, look inside himself and go, okay, if we're gonna move forward, I created this mess. It's time for me to clean it up.

And if you're saying what are you're saying about the fact that he genuinely believed that that was gonna be his last year with the Warriors, I believe he has a deep sense of his own, of history in general, of what they have accomplished as a group. I believe that it's the first time that they've lost in the previous decade or so

with the whole team healthy clay and stuff and Dremont healthy. I believe that they have that thing, the mental fortitude, the will. I mean, they're old as ****. They're short as hell. Yeah. They have a arguably outsized belief in themselves.

They just signed Rodney McGruder. Well, thankfully they did not sign ****. Oh, I shouldn't don't say that because I don't want him coming after me. We'll believe it. We'll believe that name. Yeah, I think't don't say that because I don't want him coming after me. We'll believe it. We'll believe that name. Yeah, I think that I do believe that this might be ultimately a thing that if a rose can come out of the concrete of this punch.

Okay, that's bad. I believe if there's going to be... Let me, let me, let me work up the metaphor for you. What you're saying is that Dremon Green, it wasn't enough to be figuratively punched in the balls by the backlash publicly. Now, he needs to plausibly be literally punched in the balls by Chris Paul. No, no, I think what I'm saying is

he's got a fucking winning championship, so all this shit goes away., no, I think what I'm saying is he's got a f***ing win in championships so all this f*** goes away. That's what I think. And I think if he does, by the way, Zenozian Zanan, who was the aggressor, is the greatest player in the history of French football. Yeah. Roberto Almar is in the Hall of Fame.

Yeah. People are going to move past this incident despite what all these people are saying. And Dremon Green, if he wins a fifth title, yeah, I think it goes away. In a fifth title with another prominent player, a new cast, pre-kevender rant, during Kevin Rant, post-kevender rant,

with Chris Paul, yeah, that's gonna be his legacy. Your socks are glowing. By the way, but we have not, and you did not, despite my agreeing to sit here and talk about this, rise to the standard of journalistic practices to report this. You have no source on the record. Oh, you're telling me, wait, hold on,

you're telling me that a water gate was not journalistic, Ezra. Oh, so, sorry, who's our deep throat? Well, how dare you ask me to reveal my sources? Well, by the way, if I can go back into the time machine to like think about a story that took place before both of us were born, please, deep throat, I mean, maybe I've also seen all the presidents been a bunch of times. But they were merely directed to sources to say, first of all, follow the money. So they did, in reporting the story, Woodward and Bernstein over the course of two to three

years, end up going to these sources that they were figured out away to try and you like to actually get people on the record to talk about these things. So do not. Do not. Do not compare yourself to word word Bernstein. I feel like I'm the woodward. Do you do you want to be the Bernstein? No. You want to be the work. We're, we're not a team here. What are you talking about? Have we, have we, have you gotten someone on the record to say this? To confirm this?

Well, certainly anonymously. Anonymously. Yeah. And you feel good about that. I, by the way, I feel good enough. I feel good about between the two of us, the validation that came, that go, okay, you actually have corroborated a thing that makes it more than merely a text that I got on my phone. I do feel good about that.

Well, this is where I like to take the opportunity to invite both Dremon, Green, and Jordan, Poulana, this podcast. Together. Together. Okay. Yeah. And in fact, if they agree, they can both punch me in the face. Oh, please, guys, please.

I don't know how much more of a sales pitch I can give. I don't know how much more of a sales pitch I can give. So at the very end here, Ezra Adelman. Again, for my money, the greatest documentary in America. Please don't say that. I love that you don't want me to say it. Why would you say it? I feel like you watch one documentary every three years. So I don't think that your opinion really matters in this regard. What I found out today, we end every show by declaring what we found out.

What I found out today is that Ezra Edelman understands what I'm trying to do here. And that's very meaningful to me, even if I only watch one documentary every three years according to his estimation. Is that accurate? No. How many documentaries do you watch? Are we really gonna do this?

Yeah, sure, why not? You brought it up. Like one every two months? One every two months. Yeah. And generally, what are the content of these documentaries? This is a, am I being interviewed? Yeah. For like, what is this? What did you find out, Ezra? I found out that you do have a conscience. You are trying hard. You are, you do want to do your best. I do think that you have a lot of talent. I do think that you have a lot of talent.

Oh God, this is, where is this landing? What I appreciate is that you have enough of a conscience and ambition to an awareness, which is the same as conscience, in this case, to have this platform, to have a podcast that in some ways is just another thing thrown on the trash heap of the sports podcast in universe and I try to do something that is unique and elevated. But again, I like the idea, as I said, I think I do appreciate the fact that there is a...

Say it. No, just the string was pulled, that you guys actually did the work. Now, I don't think that... John. No. John. Come on, say it. The journey that you guys went on to get to some corroborating truth.

Journal. Clearly, if you can't follow yourself a journalist then you're not a, but you come from, you are a journalist. Thank you. You are a journalist Pablo, but clearly do you feel guilty? I mean, do you feel like what you do on this show is journalism? I do.

You do. Every time you do a podcast. Yes. I believe that the standard of journalism that I am practicing is horrifying on some level to the Columbia School of Journalism. I don't know who the other arbiters of conscience are. And prior to you walking in today, you as well.

But yeah, I stand by everything. We have a, again, not to just toot my own horn here, but yeah, I believe that journalism is the art of withholding as much as it is disclosing. There are so many things that we have not reported that I have found out because it doesn't meet our standards. And yet, what's going to happen, I am 99% sure, is that someone is just going to aggregate the quote,

pull it out, it'll be fed to like NBA central and it'll be like ball sack sports and all of that stuff. And I don't even know how much traffic we're going to get to our profound journalistic meditation. Do you consider yourself the Walter Cronkite of sports journalism? Can you cut Ezra saying, do you consider and just say you are the Walter Cronkite of sports journalism? Yeah, that's really journalistic. do you consider and just say you are the Walter Cronkite of Sports Journalism?

Yeah, that's really journalistic. As you're Edelman, thank you for being my journalistic conscience. You're welcome and again, I stress please find a better and more respected journalistic conscience. Fair. respected journalist's conscience. Fair. All right, that's another week here at Pablo Tore, finds out a show that continues to spite David Samson by continuously finding stuff out. Because we are produced by Michael

Antonucci, Ryan Cortez, Sam Daywig, Patrick Kim, Nilly Lowe, and Rachel Miller Howard, Carl Scott, Ethan Shryer, Matt Sullivan, Chris Tuminello, with Studio Engineering by Viridian Tech, post-production by NDW Post, a theme song by John Bravo, and also you can watch us now on DKNetwork.com as a TV show on Samsung TV Plus channel 1168 on Roku channel 254 now and Zumo Play. And hold on to me, monetize my child here real quick. And I'll talk to you next time. I'm a pro player, and hold on to me monetize my child here real quick.

And I'll talk to you next time. I talk to you next time.