The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - PTFO: Share & Tell with Katie Nolan, Dan & Pablo

Episode Date: September 15, 2023

Are you part of the silent majority of bad sleepers? Try dressing up like Darth Vader already! What ever happened to the steroid police? We are here for a lower moral high ground! And are you, by chance, cinematically in love? Because the hardest things in life make you feel right. Also: centaur portraits, mouth-breathers, A-Rod’s teeth, and holes. Further reading: Why sportspeople are taping over their mouths (Sarah Shephard) https://theathletic.com/4844743/2023/09/11/why-sportspeople-taping-over-mouths/ The Biogenesis Files (Mike Fish) https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/36055058/biogenesis-america-tony-bosch-peds-fallout-10-years-later Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to Pablo Tore finds out I am Pablo Tore and today we're going to find out what this sound is. I don't like to close off holes that I might need. Right after this ad. You're listening to Giraffe King's Network. How long has it been since what since we got together? Oh a long time. When's the last time the three of us were hanging out? Would it be the wedding? Would it be the last time that all people each other? In person, yes, definitely, but surely we've we well, yeah, no, it's the way I was wearing an N95. The last time I think we did like pandemic HQ together. Huh. It's good to see you, Dan. Likewise, Katie, I can't wait to get started. Thank you for being on with us. Thank you for

doing this. Yeah, of course. Thank you for drinking a nice glass of milk before we got started. Yeah. It's that bad. It's that bad. No, it's not so much gray. I love it. On my beard. Oh my God. I love it. An age joke right off the top, Katie. Yeah, you know what it is. You know what it's, you know what it's always been. I think it looks okay. You look distinguished. That's not an insult. You look distinguished. Robert Toss. Yeah. I respect my elder. You look like you drank a glass of milk. It's never a compliment. Like that.

At least you don't look like a glass of milk, which is what I'm working with over here. I say my lighting is different than yours, but I've been assured this is what I look like in real life. I'm here to assure both of you that you're at public tour. I find out we're doing both of your bodies good. Thank you so much, Joe. Okay, I can go first. Which is good because last time I did this show, I didn't really bring

anything. I realized in retrospect that what I brought was my fiance. And what a great thing to bring, but I didn't really bring any news. I mean, bringing a human is truly the paragon of share and tell. Yeah. Well, wait a minute, though. She said I didn't really bring any news and hearing from over here, I brought my fiance.

That is news. Is it? That is not something that you had informed me of. That's my top. You didn't know this? This was so long ago, Dan, you definitely knew this. Congratulations. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much. We're going to save that for my topic, though. Okay, yeah, because we're going to get to it. We're going to talk about, we're going to gonna get real intimate. Oh boy. I don't Can I move really? No uncomfortable. Okay, but this is speaking of uncomfortable. What I want to talk about is I saw there was an article in the Athletic and also a clip from Logan Paul's podcast about people are taping over their mouths Logan Paul's podcast about people are taping over their mouths

when they sleep or when they do exercise. Do we have the clip? Do we want to play it? Clip, please. Let's play a clip of a Logan Paul blog. I think sleep is the most important thing in the world. Yeah, I do. Damn it. Yeah, so they're always sleeping in that. So to sleep, good, just simple kind of things,

blue blocking glasses, shutting out all the signals and everything. That's what I'm talking about. It's a venue and everything. I think it's really important. What time you put those glasses on? Normally three hours before bed. Oh my God. Nasha breathing is the way to go when you're doing sport.

Then you should try to tape your mouth then. At night. No, right now. Or when you train. sport. Then you should try to tape your mouth then. At night. Yeah. Why not? Or when you're trained right now on the podcast. It would be a bit difficult. No, no, no, no, no. No, seriously.

No, I've actually done that. I've actually bought tape to help like make sure I'm not a mouth. I haven't it. I sleep with it. Yeah, that's the new thing. That's another. Okay, so that's Erling Holland, if you don't know, he's from Manchester City, soccer player, football player.

Um, I, I, I, I, I, this doesn't feel like a good idea to me. The taping your mouth. The taping of your mouth close, especially while sleeping, which is a time when you're not really in control of much, it just feels like a, a, a factor that could become a problem without you being able to divert it from being so, you know what I mean? Blocking off an entire way of breathing. How dare you impune Logan Paul's scientific.

I know, I know he is our greatest scientific mind. But the idea though, that there are a bunch of bros contemplating sleep, trying to get their sleep better. To me is both funny and also like resident. Yeah. Because I know a lot of, I think you guys, I'm curious where you guys land on the sleep spectrum because everybody, including high, high level athletes,

like Irling Holland, and also like my wife. My wife. My wife. My wife. They're figuring out Dan like what to do about sleep and I know that Dan, what weird stuff do you do, Dan? You just heard a clip where there's some weird stuff proposed. What do you, what do you up to? I have had no issue sleeping the entirety of my life

until the last three years where the stress is rose to such a point that it is very hard now for me to get the kind of restful sleep that I want. And now the place that I am is I have basically gotten to the point where I can sleep straight through from 10 p.m. to 5 a.m. but I've got to keep those rhythms going.

And obviously this isn't professional athletes or anything like that. But there is no disputing that rest is a hugely important part of recovery and keeping these guys in optimal shape. I use an apnea machine just to help me with the breathing. What happened there? Was I just apnea shamed because? No, no, no, no, no, shame. Everybody I know has sleep apnea and uses a machine. Pablo and I were talking about this before we started. That it seems to be a thing that's, I don't think anybody doesn't know somebody who uses a sleep apnea machine at this point. Which is weird because I want, I need Dan to describe, I mean, both of your, your Dan

and this Dan, this Dan describe what the sleep apnea machine is like for people who maybe don't have a friend or a loved one that is strapping the son at night. Yeah, well, I feel totally ridiculous and not attractive at all to my wife because I'm taking something that I'm putting in my nose that goes over my head and then it's a tube to a machine that is plugged into the wall that helps with extra oxygen and make sure that I'm not waking myself up with snoring

or getting in the way of the deep sleep that you need to get. I mean, I also wear like a ring that measures how good my REM sleep is just because I really, I think that this, that sleep, if you do not get it right, can be something that really harms your health. And so at this age, at 54 years old, I wanna do as many things as I can to ward off the

Grim Reaper. And so you end up looking like a guy who is a sci-fi Grim Reaper. Yeah, plugged into the matrix. Like a prisoner on the con airplane, like Darth Vader, like that's what, but truly, like, so, but I don't want to spill your secrets, Katie. I know what. But just like, you don't wear a sleep apnea mask. No.

But where are you on the sleep spectrum as you sleep next to your own Darth Vader? Who tried with a sleep apnea mask and could not do it. So we're trying other methods for him. I suck at sleeping, but I, once I'm there, once I'm out, I can sleep uninterrupted for, I mean, I could go for like 10 hours. I try to wake myself up.

The hardest part for me is falling asleep and waking up. Those are the two difficulties for me. Once I'm out, I don't have the problem that my fiance has, which is that he's constantly waking up and then trying to fall back asleep, but he can fall asleep at the drop of a pin. I keep myself awake running through thoughts, so like sleep sucks for me,

but I can hit that deep restorative sleep that I think is important for health. So like I don't worry about it in that way. Mine's more, I think psychological. How does this work though? Because I was of the impressioner. Are you someone who's just not good at time management? Because I thought that part of the reason

that you were late is because that you would be famously late is because of how you slept, because you sleep like a hibernating bear. Yeah. Yeah, well, let's just note, I got here before Pablo today. So... Well, while yes, I am late a lot of the time.

Yeah, I'd say for the stuff that we do, it's mostly because you guys completely discount the fact that we have to paint a face on and the world is going to judge us based on how that face is. Why does it mean to bring up a sore subject? I just thought that you were late because you slept like a pair.

I do sleep a lot. You don't have to worry. You don't have to worry. You don't have to worry. It takes to look like this. I dare you. Yeah, this too. I mean, this is me putting an effort

and it doesn't look like it at all. But yeah, I just drank a bunch of milk. I can't sleep. So did I. I mean, this is me putting an effort and it doesn't look like it at all. But yeah, I just drank a bunch of milk. I can't sleep. So did I. I could sleep forever. And I get it like this whole theory of this taping your mouth closed and the things they're saying, which is that like breathing and sleeping are two huge parts of living. It seems when you boil it down. That's very obvious. It seems like we're idiots for everything. Obviously. You've been thinking this was an advanced thing to wrap our brains around.

Exactly, but there is to me this, it seems strange how widely we are spreading this, you tape your mouth closed when you sleep, when we're talking about athletes. Like these are athletes looking for an edge for their peak performance, and I get it, we've seen athletes do weird stuff throughout history, throughout the history of sports,

to try to be a little bit better than the next guy. But I don't know that like average Joe, it should be taping his mouth closed at any point. I mean, these articles like this Sarah Shepherd article in the athletic talks about how they do it when they're training, when articles, like the Sarah Shepherd article in the athletic, talks about how they do it when they're training, when they're like working out to try to retrain your body to go through your nose.

Which it knows breathing is better than, I guess we've always made fun of mouth-breather's, but in this case, it's actually a pejorative for people who are suboptimally training, breathing, living. Yeah. But aren't they trying to also improve generally their stamina, right? If you're using fewer places where you're getting oxygen from, you're making yourself somebody who can run longer periods of time because you're someone who's trained yourself

to breathe just through your nose. I can imagine, though, Katie, if you're sitting here telling us that your thoughts consume you, that some of this just feels claustrophobic, that wait a minute, when I'm sleeping, I don't have control of anything, and you're telling me, I'm gonna take off a very easy source to breath, which is something I need to live. Now the next step is, if Dan gets mad at me,

he pinches my nose, I sleep like a bear, what happens after that? I'm dead, I'm dead. So I don't like to close off holes that I might need. You know what I mean? It just doesn't seem like a safe thing for everyone to try. Clip that. We're gonna make that go viral.

Quick side note. Aggregate that part. Katie keeps her holes open. Yeah, because she might need them. She might need them. You might need them. But yeah, to your point, they do say that it's, I mean, it's the phrase they use to describe this as terrifying to me.

But that when they're training athletes with this closing off your mouth, it's, they get you to the point where you feel, I think they call it oxygen hunger, which is when your body is, it reminds me of what they tell you happens when you're drowning, which is that even if you're underwater, what you really die from is the asphyxiation

because your body goes, I need air, and it breathes in it breathes in water, and then you die. So they say that they try to push your body to the point where it feels really hungry for oxygen, which means that the CO2 in your blood is high, which means that you're adapting your blood to functioning with more CO2, which means you will need

in turn less oxygen, which is fine for an athlete. I just don't think like my dad needs to try that. I grew up next to NYU Hospital, so I just like don't wake up. I can fall asleep immediately. What I am told is that, according to sources, I am a terrible snorer. I am just always making disgusting. Just like something's wrong, something's wrong in their noises. Like stopping breathing noises, like, that's what my, that's what Liz tells me. Yeah, and that's, I trust her. I think she's not.

What kind of journalist are you? It was sources a second ago and then you just give up the second later. What are you doing? It's about the protect your sources. There's a, there's a joke about Watergate that I want to make, but I don't want that to go viral at this point in terms of sources. I said the whole thing.

Yeah, I just can't go deep through it when I'm talking about my wife. The point being in terms of my sources that I am told that I need to go and get this checked out. Previously, I was sort of reveling in the idea that I had this ultimate privilege because there's like a, Dan, there's like a silent majority, I feel,

like a people, our friends, who are really bad at sleeping. And I took this for granted forever. And now I'm realizing that, while we're not athletes, not only is your mental health tied to this, your day-to-day ability to function is something that I never really had to think about until I realized I might have also lost the lottery in terms of breathing good.

One of the things, if indeed people are sleeping more poorly than they have been, one of the things that they recommend people who know about these things is get the hell out of your devices, man, before you go to sleep. So we should talk about this because we were on his group chat last night trying to figure out like, what do you want to talk about today on Share and Tell? This segment I'm trying to make happen on my show. And Dan was like, sorry guys, devices unplugged. Talk to you later.

It's very impressed by that. Which I truly know to be a place of like, is it newfound discipline, Dan? Because you're not somebody I think who always did this. I wouldn't say that it's a great discipline. I would just say that a couple of hours before 10 p.m., I need to now like an old person start doing some regimented things that I never had to think about before in order to get the proper rest so that I can function properly the next day.

I, none of these things that I'm saying were things I ever thought about before I was 50. Like, never had to consider them. Wish I didn't have to consider them now, but the addiction to the devices, the blue screens, the, what they were talking about, where, excuse me, five dollars fine. Those glasses, yeah.

The glasses, yes, of shutting out light three hours before, so that your body is being told three hours before bed, we are slowly going into a restorative state where, you know, the science of healing will begin. I don't do that at all. Most people don't. No, I know. But they all say they do.

And they all go like, you got to. And during the pandemic, I bought those blue blocker glasses. Dan and I just got a pair. You did too. They didn't feel like they were doing anything. It's the thing. If you don't understand what it is anyway, and then you buy it from Amazon, you can't really go like, well, this doesn't work.

So it just felt like it wasn't really working. I was looking at my hand the other day and noticed I have that pink, what? You don't stare at your hand sometimes, just like notice that stuff. That's the weed. That is so the weed. I was like, that is so the weed.

Dude, I have a shelf on my pinky for my phone, that little bone that thing where you rest, where you rest this, it's just like this thing. Like, there's a ridge. That's evolution. But it's the evolution of an animal that's about to be extinct. Yeah, an animal that's gonna turn into a computer.

It's the competitive, it's the evolutionary maladaptation. Truly. Well, so have you read Sapiens? Of course. Because I'm just reading it now, I'm way behind. By, of course, I also mean to be clear, I bought it. Yeah, so have you read Sapiens? Of course. Because I'm just reading it now, way behind. By, of course, I also mean to be clear. I bought it. Yeah, exactly.

Everybody had it, but it's so thick that it's very intimidating. But I have time. I got nothing but time right now. So I'd started cracking it open. And what's fascinating to me is that it said that every, in, in, in, throughout history, most things that our, our, um are evolutionarily successful, which just means that you made more DNA copies. So the thing that like chickens are very evolutionarily successful, but their happiness now is

way low compared to the way a chicken was when it was wild and like living and doing whatever it wanted as opposed to now like living in masses in like these huddled, whatever. Same thing with humans. Most things we've done to help us evolutionarily are actually bad for our quality of life and have affected us negatively. Nickens are less happy. Pablo is finding sh** out. Nickens are less happy Katie and humans definitely aren't. Humans definitely are less happy.

That goes. Well, like the agricultural revolution, which is when we domesticated animals and like wheat, or you could say wheat domesticated us, it actually like made our lives less happy, made our brains smaller, made us change our lives in a way that like helped other people profit, but never actually helped farmers.

You guys should read sapiens. You should quit your jobs and have, and don't find a new one for a while and read thick books. I like the idea that this entire time, I have been numb to the plight of the chicken. Yeah, you're not paying enough attention to the chicken, and it knows. We're not paying enough attention to the fact that all of us are addicted to the devices and it knows. We're not paying enough attention to the fact that all of us are addicted to the devices

and it's making us unhappy. Or like that seems to be something we should be paying more attention to. Wait, I wanna, I wanna, before we get out of the sleep topic, I wanna ask about how this all affects your dreams or your nightmares. Is there any relationship like, Dan, what's your, what's the thing that, that haunts you

when it comes to nightmare stuff? And I wonder if this intersects with sleep stuff? I don't do a ton of horror dreaming when I get to REM sleep, I do find some dreaming that is unusual and stuff, but, and this is probably less fun than where it is that you want to go with this. But given what my last year has been at the side of the deathbed of my brother, what has been creeping in now, sometimes that wasn't there before. And I'm sorry for this to take a dark turn, but the way my life has been going lately. Some of this stuff creeps in just about everywhere.

Some visions of him the last year when he was in pain and crawling through it. Some of that stuff has made an appearance, which is obviously deeply embedded in just what my life has been the last year. In my dreams, I can fly. Ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha ha. Like a record. Always high.

You're high in your dreams. You're high when you're looking at your hand. Everything you do is propelled by marijuana. My recurring dream is I'm in the back seat of a car, but I need to drive it from the back seat. Oh, that's... There's nobody in the front seat and there's a cop coming and I'm afraid he's gonna find out I'm driving it from the back seat. Oh, that's... There's nobody in the front seat, and there's a cop coming,

and I'm afraid he's gonna find out I'm driving it from the back seat, which is impossible. I'm no second therapist, but I feel like all of our dreams are pretty f***ing on the nose. Yeah, pretty obvious. What we're going through.

Oh. All right, Dad. What is your topic that you brought us here today? I enjoyed some work that Mike Fish did for ESPN. He was, I'm going to say, celebrating the the 10 year anniversary of biogenesis, which is one of my- On Miami Story. Well, it's one of my favorite Miami stories because it's so bokeh strip mall orange people buffoonery where you see that like the golden age of baseball of many Ramirez, A. Rod,

Ryan Braun, all these people, that it was just unholy, boobery at every turn. And if you've seen like Billy Corbin's documentary, Screwball, you know some of this stuff. Baseball was in no way equipped to handle anything happening here, but I just wanted to talk to you guys about performance enhancers because one of the things I'm always mentioning on the show is we were so outraged at a rod and he does this big show before the year long suspension of going to New York, lying through his teeth, going on the shows, kicking a brief case and a meeting with the commissioner, all of it the atrix.

All of us were pissed off because he lied to us in the betrayal and all he had to do to erase all the outrage and get every sports broadcasting team to want to employ him is date JLo. And he fixed all of it. And so I just I wanted to talk about performance enhancement 10 years later with one of the most Miami sports candles you will ever see. It's a great, it's a great story. This is like a 10 part series or something and all of it's pretty juicy,

like just as a matter of just brief preview. Like LeBron's name is in this because apparently Tony Bosch, the biogenesis PD dealer that Dan was alluding to, the Miami guy, he was sending some stuff to one of LeBron's associates. Now LeBron has been cleared of all of this but the point is the tentacles sort of extend everywhere

and I bring that up not just because, this, but the point is that tentacles sort of extend everywhere. And I bring that up, not just because, wow, a salacious headline that is aggregated, but because it makes me wonder whether the outrage on this in general is anywhere close to where it used to be. Like 10 years ago, Dan, I remember being at sports illustrated and there was a beat, Selena Roberts and David Epstein, two great investigative reporters were on the A-Rod beat.

Like this was a thing we would crusade about morally, it felt important. And all I can think about now is how we just had a conversation about all of the weird shit we're doing to improve ourselves. And I'm like, I don't know if our tolerance for this stuff has changed consciously, but it just feels like we care less

in general about the weird things we all try to do to get an edge to improve our performance on the field as human beings. I don't know of the morality, if the sheriff policing steroids anymore is anything but a curiosity when it used to be like an outrage. Yeah, I feel like I also wonder if the younger generations care or if they don't care at all. I mean, I know people who didn't care at all when it was happening who are like whatever. I want to see as many bombs as I can in a game. So if you want to take PEDs, it gets stronger and hit them, then fine.

It's always just weird to me. Baseball is an interesting forum to have these kinds of discussions because I feel like baseball is full of people who love to bring up the like sanctity of the game and the morality of the game as if like this is a, PEDs is a line of demarcation between a clean game and a dirty game, which completely ignores the fact

that the game has been dirtyed since it became a business. And so it sort of- The role Phil was used to like grease the ball for advantage. Yeah, exactly. Like it's still, it just is talked about in this way that's like, oh, you've taken a PED, you will never see the Hall of Fame. And people who have that as their stance love to talk about that as their stance.

And I just don't, it just all feels phony to me. My issue with PEDs would be like if it's not good for the athlete. Like if ultimately it's bad for them and that we, the sports viewing public, have pushed these people into a world where they have to like alter themselves and push themselves too much that they end up breaking themselves

and hurting themselves. Outside of that, I don't care. I think a lot of people who watch sports don't totally understand that the people who are playing sports are going through such a meticulous workplace regimen, science. They're doing so many things to be great that you yourself and me, we don't work in workplaces that are nearly that difficult and disciplined and what you're watching isn't what you think is little league, your coach, coach shoe,

it's not that at all. It is obsessive compulsive work. I'm gonna be better than this other guy in a competition for money. To think that those people getting to the top of survival of the fittest on money would choose pharmacies that offer healing and fountains of youth to keep getting to the money is not only not

an outrage. It's the most logical thing in the world for human beings to do to keep trying to compete. And so if you can find the science to help you, I lost my Hall of Fame vote because I didn't understand the moral outrage around me that still keeps Barry Barnes out of the Hall of Fame. What all he was trying to do was keep up with Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa who were never as good as he was. Wait a minute.

When Dan says I lost my Hall of Fame vote, I believe you're kind of yada yada yada and over what it is that you did to lose your hall of fame. Yeah, it wasn't just like a thing. Please, recap exactly what happened. I sold my vote to deadspin, sold in vote marks because they were looking for,

what are you laughing about? No, nothing, keep going. And they were just looking for somebody to do it. They had somebody who was gonna do it. And I'll say, I sell them, I'll be your backup plan. I'll be your backup plan. I'll be your backup plan. And I just wanted to make the moral stand of, you can't keep these guys out of the Hall of Fame because you sports writers are

suggesting to me that if I gave you the ability to write better and make more money by mirroring some cream on your muscles that you wouldn't do it. So I just didn't, I didn't like the sanctimony. And so I just made a cartoonish exit. And what was one of the funnier things about it to me is ESPN got mad at me. They're like, why didn't you do it on, on ESPN? And I'm like, because then it wouldn't have worked. work. I had to do it with an entity that was trying to make fun of the whole cathedral of sports. Right. I mean, look, I, so I'm trying to now muster now that I realize who Dan is in the story. I'd forgotten about this. He reminded me of it just then. I'm trying to think about who I should

care about though. Who are the victims in the PED story because if we're gonna go moral relativism on this, like, and I get by the way, the job insecurity, right? It reminds me, tangent, right? It reminds me of like the Tunga-Vailoa concussion story. Like, the point is that dude wanted to do it to himself because everybody in sports fears losing their job, right? We can demand things of them to be better,

to be more careful, impose rules, it doesn't matter. That guy wants to protect his livelihood in a way that honestly is unrelatable to people outside of that insane ecosystem that Dan described. But in terms of that ecosystem, there are like these critters along the floor of the rainforest who are the,

I guess are naive and are like, it's the Doug Glanvills. You know, it's the guys of the rainforest, who are the, I guess are naive and are like, it's the Doug Glanville's. You know, it's the guys who are like, I'm not doing it. I see sports as pure. I'm going to be, and I don't, I wouldn't even call it sanctimonious as much as Dan talked about the cathedral.

I would just call it, they have principles. And they lose. Those guys who don't lie, who don't do this stuff, they lose. Those guys who don't lie, who don't do this stuff, they lose. When you're watching a football game on Sunday, do you think anybody listening to this understands the amount of sculpting that goes into that wide receiver's route? The amount of precision in science and discipline and practice in coaching over years that goes into that guy's not just fast and running. That guy is fast and running eight and a half yards because he's done

it a million times and he's got to be this much faster than the guy covering him. And they're all looking for those advantages because this much of an advantage in that sport gets you more money. I don't think they understand, but I also think a lot of sports and sports viewing and sports fandom is built on this idea that they do. I think, but we've all worked in sports long enough to know that there are plenty of people out there who think they can do it better than certain people can do it, whether it's our jobs or the jobs of the athletes themselves.

I feel like that disconnect is there, but it's kind of innate. What any of them object, if I tell them, hey, you know how hard it was for paid manning, to get to be as good as he was. And you know that he won a Super Bowl at the end in a season where he had nine touchdowns and 17 interceptions, and his neck could barely move. Do you think that if I say to them, hey, a little HGH for the neck? Any issues, like, are you need paid manning to be moral pizza seller in the commercials? Or he just needs help with the pain. I just think it's a thing that we've that has that was an obvious bad in a world of

vague gray moral ground where it was like peedies Peedies are bad. So we love to say athletes should push themselves and if you're hurt You should play through the pain and we love to see a guy who we love at the end of like after the hockey season ends, after the Stanley Cup is won, they go, hey, by the way, Bergeron had three cracked ribs and had separated a disk and everyone goes, oh, that's so great, we love that he does that. But then the opposite side of that is like,

hey, that's something that could have helped them play through that would be if they took a little bit of this recovery drug. And then it's like, hey, that's something that could have helped them play through that would be if they took a little bit of this recovery drug. And then it's like, PD, no, bad. And so it's like sort of a little bit of reveling and playing through the pain and hating that they can alleviate it. I think if we're all being honest, like sports fans in general, you want sports to be a place where guys are desperate to do this stuff.

You want them to feel maxed out on every sort of ethical compromise because you want, because the number one thing, Dan, about the relationship between fans and athletes is a fan demands that an athlete care about this more than they do, which is really hard because it's the most irrational thing how much we love sports. And so what does that mean?

It means that at the end of the day, you want someone to go home and inject, have cousin Yuri, Aarod's, Lucy Goosey cousin, yeah, inject some stuff into his ass. You want that, even if you're saying to yourself intellectually, I'm against this. And in fact, you would be mad if the part of Aarod that wanted to compete didn't want to compete

in a way that jeopardized his health, the ethics, the sport itself. I would love that press conference where the person gets caught cheating and comes out with just PR people and is like, do you realize this is a symbol for just how much I care? I care more. I care so much more than you fans whose bodies don't hurt the way mine does. I care so much that I compromised principles that I didn't want to compromise because I want to win for you, the sports fan who thinks he cares more than I do.

I would much rather that. That's how A-Rot could get me to like him is just that. Come out and say that. To not be a total liar and I would turn. No, I would never do that. Then we find out later like, oh, you were queen for a day and you told everybody how you did that. We should, we should admit. I mean, we don't have to admit it. A-Rod admitted it now.

Like A-Rod's a snitch. Like we can laugh at that too, by the way. No, no, no, no, it's ridiculous. What are your favorite details in all of the reporting? Because yeah, A-Rod turning over everybody while again, I will remind you, getting the longest suspension in the sport and kicking over a briefcase theatrically in a conference room where he was obviously lying about everything just for show. A-Rod being a guy who was starring in a movie about A-Rod, who is bad at acting, playing the role of A-Rod is endlessly funny to me. I like that he was illegally getting Seattleis in Viagra.

It's like you could probably just get that through legal channels. I guess it makes sense if you're getting drugs from somebody to be like, hey, while we're doing this, can you toss in something for my sh** in hand to all my performance while we're at it? It just feels like, man, I don't know.

I know that at the time he wasn't sleeping with J-Lo, but to know that a guy who went on to sleep with J-Lo needed help in that department is just a, it's a, it's funny. We're gonna clip Katie also saying, hey, while you're at this, can you throw in something from a ****? Yeah. Don't. You're welcome for the clip.

Shame A-Rod, don't do that. I'm not, I'm not. But you have to have the funniest detail in it. You should have absolutely be shaming him. I am told, sports fans, man, whether, I don't know who you guys think are the most popular, but whether it's Marshawn Lynch or or people who occupy a space on the authenticity where they're themselves and you're like, yeah, I like that. One of the things they really don't like is inauthentic. But A-rod is such a learner. I remember specifically,

he would ask everybody thousands of thousands of questions, and I don't think it's a coincidence that he gravitated over to dating Madonna and asking her all the questions about how do you keep reinventing yourself? Because say what you will about A-rod, everybody still wants him to work as a broadcast. Yes. Good as a broadcaster. He's just teeth. He's just smiling teeth,

but people like him. People like him on the broadcast anyway. I mean, I don't get it. I don't get it. If I just like to think that somewhere, the portrait that Alex Rodriguez allegedly has of himself as half a horse. Denied. I don't care.

By who? A centaur. He's a centaur. He's a centaur. But who's denied it, I'm saying. I think he's denied it. Then what, what is that being? What is his word?

Worst. While kicking over a briefcase, he denied it. I don't have that. That means he does have it. He definitely does have it. Kicking over a briefcase with his fucking horse leg. Ha ha ha. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪

I walked into this studio today and not only was I also blown away by Dan's milk mustache beard, but also by the glow, the glow of just being around both of you mother f******. What the hell's happening? We just see him on some level despite the despair, despite hard things in life, just seemed existentially happier because you have found your person. And this is not a story, an article that I brought in. It's just a recognition of

of how things might be different for you both now. And how it is that you think of yourself before it is that Dan you met Valerie before it is that Dan, you met Valerie and Katie, you met Dan Soder and you guys f***ing found love. I just think this is the big change in our meeting today. It's that.

And at people say this all the time, so I hate to sound trite, but I thought I understood what love was until I was fully in it. And now I see it as this thing that like he helps me see me in a way that makes me feel powerful, if that makes sense. Or like there are times where I, I mean as a person who struggles with depression, I've talked about this many times and we do not have to dwell on it, please.

But like there's ability he has without doing anything to make me see who I am in a light that feels almost more authentic than the light I see myself in. And it's a weird comparison, but it makes me think of the matrix where like Neo does not think he's Neo until Trinity says that he's like she believes in it, and it makes him realize who,

and then he becomes Neo through being loved by her. And so it just feels like, I just- It feels like you know Kung Fu. Yes, and I can dodge bullets, which has become very useful in my life. Valerie thinks that wishes that she could see herself the way that I see her and I would love to be as forgiving on myself as she is when she meets me with acceptance and understanding in some

of the places that other partners have tried to change. I won't say to you guys that I thought I knew what love was. I was always sort of searching and had convinced myself that I was a fundamentally even person, but what I've learned now through marrying Valerie and through the death of my brother, which is open sort of a portal for me, a lifelong repressed person. I am willing now to feel the high end of love because I also now know what the loss is of feeling the low end. I was always risk averse on committing the ways that I needed to, you know, eternally and vulnerably to somebody and completely because risking that kind of love risks the

kind of loss that I have with my brother. And so to have Valerie during this time as someone I am leaning on, I just can't imagine going through the grief that consumes me now alone or with someone I was mismatched with because it is almost too much to bear by itself. So to be in the healing powers of love just makes me feel more deeply, deeply than I ever thought possible, deeply than I could ever know, right?

I was always trying to convince myself I was in love. I remember telling some friends about a woman that I was dating seriously in a hotel lobby in Los Angeles. I was trying to explain to them why I was in love and I watched their faces. I'm like, I am unconvincing right now. I am not, I am not, this is not working. They are not buying what, because I was trying to articulate

myself into love instead of just feeling it. And it does, the hardest things become easy when they're, you know, when they feel right. What, what a, I mean, so I should say that I think about it all the time with Liz, my wife, but also with Violet, our daughter, like the most profound love makes you feel like a cliche. Yeah, it's very hard to talk about because you just say things

that you've heard other people say, but you maybe didn't feel them and internalize them until it happened to you. And you think you're being unique and say, but you maybe didn't feel them and internalize them until it happened to you. And you think you're being unique and interesting, and then you listen back, and you're like, I said, what everybody always says. Right.

And truly, as somebody who is, we all professionally use words. I'm always trying to get to something that feels original about it. And I always land at a place of, I am exactly what the greeting card says. Love to me, and this is, you know, maybe even I feel this way to a fault,

but love to me is the, is why we're here. Again, this sounds like. Love will cure all. No, but it feels like it's, in a world where we're talking about like, are we gonna upload our consciousness into AI? The thing that separates us from a machine is the capability to love. That's the only real thing we have to meet that sets us apart.

But was there, like, the cinematic? Did you guys have cinematic moments where it's like the one and you hear the music swell and Katie is kind of smiling in a way that makes me think that maybe there was something like that. I'm trying to find it in my mind. I say that because I don't have that. That's the part where the cliche is not real,

is that the cliche is felt as a product of mundane stuff that accumulates, that makes me grateful, like endlessly grateful for a partner who makes my life better, who makes me feel fulfilled, and makes me feel fulfilled and matches me and fills holes in that way. That you like to keep open. That I still need to help.

In case you need them, don't tape them closed. That should be what Pablo finds out today. So take your holes closed, leave them open. But what are you guys but Dan, what do you have on that? The whole thing of, is there cinema in your falling in love? This is what I would say to you because I have not been a person who would have ever believed in the spiritual sappiness of what I'm about to tell you, if not, having lived it and felt

it myself. I'm in a cabin in Jacksonville at a music festival, all of it well outside of my comfort zone. Lord there, by my brother, who lived life bigger and more joyously and more expressively than I did. And my now wife, who wanted to go see music and be one with nature in the woods. And I can't explain to you or articulate to you,

I don't have the time to do it here on all of the things that I felt there. But one of the very powerful images that I had while they're feeling something like love slash spiritual enlightenment. This is as happy as you can be. And furthermore, if you do not believe in God, this is the greatest thing human beings can feel inside themselves and have you be a one with God or whatever it is you think is God. I was in a dream like state and this is not drugs talking or anything else. Spiritually running through what looked like a forest toward a light chasing after my brother and my wife who were, you know, little kid joyful. And I was trying to keep up while running toward a light with them. All of that is crystal clear to me as an articulation of a feeling that I'd argue with you guys. I don't think all of love can be articulated the same way in a greeting card.

I think something like that, that what I just said to you doesn't necessarily resonate with others, but for me, that one is forever because it's a feeling that I'd never known before. I didn't know it was possible. It's not something that I thought could be so. I couldn't even imagine it. So to feel it and have it inside of me is something that feels eternal. I do remember the moment that I went,

hmm, it was kind of like, in Clueless, when she's like, to I love whatever Paul Rudd's character was named, and then like, the fountain goes off. I was in hair and makeup at ESPN, and I was like, talking to the girl who did my hair at the time about like, I was like, on Raya or something, like, going on these dates, but I was raving about this guest who was coming in

and how much they were gonna love him. It was this guy, Dan Soder. And she was like, well, why don't you date him then? And I was like, well, but he's, I, but I couldn't. But he's, wait, why don't I date him? And then we did the segment and I was not myself. You, if you watch it back, the whole time. We gotta find this clip in the middle.

The whole time I'm like, it's Dan Soder. You may know our next guest from sitting beside me right now. His role is my fee on billions or the series, the stand-ups on Netflix, but however you know him, you absolutely love him. Give it up for my buddy, Dan Sotter. Yeah! Yeah!

Like I was so uncomfortable because this moment that we had had, like it all of a sudden I was looking at him differently and I did not know how to act like myself. But yeah, he's just, God, I love that guy. He's just the greatest. And I'm so grateful to have him in my life

and to just have somebody that no matter what, I had a breakdown. One of those really ugly ones. Early in the pandemic, when I kind of realized that I was losing control of this thing, I'd been working on my whole life. And I was budding up against it so much and I just had this moment where he and I were still early

in dating and I was trying to hide that I was hurting. I was trying to hide how frustrated I was and I was trying to seem like I had it all together and I just kind of lost it and was sobbing in a way that like, I don't even like thinking about, I was like, a lot of that. And I remember Dan came into the room. And when I like finally brought myself to look up

because I was so afraid of like seeing what his face was gonna be, I looked up and he was smiling. And I immediately felt like more calm. And I, he just said like, finally, like finally, you're letting me see it. And he, and it just made me, I was like, and then he just had this conversation. Yeah, and I had, we had this conversation.

I put it in my calendar. I was like, this was the day you had the best conversation of your life with the person that you are gonna be with forever. Where they basically were like, it's, you should feel this. He reflected what I felt, and also was like, it makes perfect sense.

And just like, completely put me at ease in a way that if you had told me was what was gonna make me feel better, I would have been like, no. I felt and also was like it makes perfect sense. And just like completely put me at ease in a way that if you had told me was what was gonna make me feel better, I would have been like, no, if I'm sobbing and someone smiling at me, it's gonna make me very mad. But it was this calm moment. You've got the cinematic thing down there because you go from when you're thinking about it

in Clueless and you're like, I'm not myself to being most yourself and showing him all of it and it being met with something that soothes God. I mean, that's pretty cool. Like that's, that is what love should look like where here it is. Here I am in all my broken me.

This is me. Well, you love it anyway. And when the answer's a smile and yes, like, yeah, of course, that's soothing. We don't have a perfect relationship. I don't want anybody watching us who, like, especially if you're single and you're like, oh, my God, enough about this. It's not perfect. Nobody does.

Nobody's got to, it doesn't have to be perfect for you to be the dreamer who's in the backseat trying to grab it this hearing wheel. And he just, no, and he sees who you are and knows that and wants to be in the car. He wants to be in the car with that. Exactly. That's, is I see him for who he is and I see the things that are, are his faults or his shortcomings as he sees mine. And I accept them and, um, and I, and I love them because I love him. Let me explain something to you. Valerie lives with two cats, a dog, and an ape on a farm. Okay? She has married someone who learned very little other than to work in his entire life.

And I will tell you that I will never lose her as long as she knows I'm always trying. As long and it doesn't make it a perfect relationship, but she loves me from a place that as long as I'm present and trying, I'm not going to lose her and I don't want to ever lose her, so I'm going to always be present and try. That's a big one. That's a big part of it. Yeah, I think, well, I think this means that we need to throw our phones into the ocean. Like, that's the enemy, that's the enemy. That is the thing.

How do I fail to be present? How am I consumed with work? How do I fail to reflect an understanding that I know what she is feeling? It's because my f**king pinky is cradling a phone. consumed with work. How do I fail to reflect an understanding that I know what she is feeling? It's because my f***ing pinky is cradling a phone. We're addicted. We're addicted.

You're an unhappy chicken. Evolutionarily successful, but sad on the inside. That is what we found out today. What we found out today, we spent a lot of time doing this, but what we found out is the chickens used to be happier. What did you find out today? I found out, you know, some interesting perspectives on PEDs, love, and whatever mine was sleeping.

I don't think I found out anything specific, except that, because it's not called Katie finds out, it's called Pablo finds out. I brought you learn. What I found out today is that Katie Nolan refuses to respect the game that I built. I love the game. I brought a thing, you barely brought a thing, love.

That's not it. That wasn't an article. I didn't read that anyway. The same thing. I brought the thickest book. Yeah. The book of love. Sapiens, the sapiens of love.

The sapiens book, you initially said that you're red and then it reveals your lies falling when you're... Which I really appreciated. I really, because everybody said they read it, and I looked at it and I was like, you've all read this. As soon as I could sense Dan, as soon as Katie started saying details,

I was like, I better pull the fuck out of here, I should court. I cannot handle this. I cannot hang with her analysis of evolutionary biology. Dan doesn't have to say what he found out. We don't make Dan say. I, well, I found out that you were engaged and I found out I did not know congratulations. I'm not making that up congratulations. I'm happy for like third date was your wedding You deserve love and laughter and I'm glad that you founded it my wedding. Thank you, Dan

Thank you, dad. Take care guys Dan. Thank you, Dan. Take care, guys. This has been Pablo Torre finds out a metal arc media production that will never stop finding stuff out. I want David Samson. Yes, I'm speaking directly to you to know this. We're never gonna stop finding out, dude. And it's because we have Michael Antonucci. Ryan Cortez, Sam Daywick, Patrick Kim, newly loam and Rachel Miller Howard, Carl Scott, Ethan Shryer, Matt Sullivan, Chris Tumonello, studio engineering by Viridian Tech, post-production by NGW Post, a theme song by John Bravo.

And we're gonna talk to you next week, Samson. Get ready. you