The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - PTFO - The Jordon Rules: An Exclusive PTFO Investigation

Episode Date: May 9, 2025

The real story of Bill Belichick's 24-year-old girlfriend is even weirder than it seemed on the viral CBS interview: Pablo spoke to 11 sources who've dealt with Jordon Hudson directly — and there is deep concern that she is destroying the legacy and reputation of the greatest football coach ever. Plus: Katie Nolan and Michael Cruz Kayne reveal our reporting from Hudson's hometown and her ex-boyfriend's (gulp) unsavory past. That... and the story of the yellow polka-dot bikini. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Pablo Torre, and this episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out is brought to you by Remy Martin 1738, Accord Royale. Exceptionally smooth cognac for all your game day festivities. Please drink responsibly. Because today we're gonna find out what this sound is. 28,000 year old dildo, that's what she calls Bill. Right after this ad. You're listening to Draft Kings Network. Bill. Right after this ad. You're listening to DraftKings Network. We gotta, we gotta get going here.

Let me take these sunglasses off so I don't seem flippant about the subject matter. Your hair's voluminous today. Okay, thank you for noticing. Well, I took a shower yesterday. Shout out. Second day is the best day. Shout out to showers. We don't have time for this.

Start us cleanly. Are we starting cleanly? Are we rolling? Pointing to the thing. We have been rolling. Very good. Action. We don't have time to banter. Sorry. Why'd you invite me?

I made a terrible mistake. I now realize by inviting you two specifically. But in front of you are papers with words on them that are warnings. Words that are warnings. Yours has more warnings than mine. Yeah. Mine also says, can I say the embargoed? Mine says exclusive with two underlines, embargoed with stars.

That's I think probably because I have a podcast. We have a timeline of exclusive information that is new, breaking. No one else has broken it yet. I've been sitting on it for a long time. OK. Right? You guys were here the last time when we broke this story that, in fact, Jordan Hudson, Bill Belichick's girlfriend, age 24, had insinuated herself into a Super Bowl commercial with Ben Affleck and Matt Damon. This was a very conspicuous thing to us and now maybe to everybody who was watching this again.

Matt Damon and Tom Brady don't have the heart of a champion. We got a new squad, Dunking sequel. Affleck's and Belichick. Dunking's! A little more spirit on the, uh, you know, on the charge next time? So, Jordan, right there, right next to Bill, next to Coach Belichick. To recap, she was the one who represented herself as Bill Belichick's agent. Katie Nolan, I believe, uh,

branded her accurately on the last episode. As a momager? Yeah. Impressant. I've been thinking about that, haunted by that, because in the months since then, I've also been making more calls. And so when this stuff happened recently, I was at the bottom of the rabbit hole already,

and everything I have found out from personally talking to 11 sources who have directly dealt with her. Yes. First hand. I am here to say a couple of things to you guys. Number one is that I need to change So, 11 sources who have directly dealt with her. Yes. Oh my God. First hand, I am here to say a couple of things to you guys. Number one is that I need to change the foremost policy of talking about Jordan Hudson. And that is? Which is that I'm going to start calling her Jordan Hudson.

Which is funny because I've noticed people online have started calling her Jordan and I said, Pablo led the charge. Yeah. It's just now a real story. Yes. Fair. Totally fair. Agree with. Respect. And when you talk to 11 people, I do want to demonstrate some open-mindedness to the

quest. That's as many herbs and spices as there are, if I'm not mistaken. Right, so that's the herbs and spice line. Once you hit that, you really end on the story. We've hit the KFC threshold. That's right. And so too, there are questions about how original is this recipe? Wow, beautifully done.

It's like you guys had worked on that and I'm here to say they hadn't. We absolutely haven't. But the recipe for this story is there is some succession. There is Dawson's Creek. There is certainly some Lifetime movie. The story of arguably the greatest coach in the history of not just football, but everything. And a couple of breaking news updates since what has happened publicly since we last gathered. Number one, okay.

Two sources at the University of North Carolina tell me that there has been a decision was made last week by the higher ups inside the athletic department that had hired Bill Balachek to be the highest paid public employee, not just coach, in the state of North Carolina at $10 million a year. And that decision was that Jordan Hudson is no longer allowed in the football building. She is not allowed on the football field. Quote, don't think you'll be hearing much from Jordan moving forward. Dang, not in the building?

A little flippant. I feel like that is what is done with a distraction and a team is within its rights to do that when it comes to external distractions. Now do we think, maybe we know, I don't know if we know, do we think this is like the athletic director at UNC being like, this is a problem? Or do you think it's Bill going to the athletic director and being like I would really love it if you said this Was a problem. Oh of like oh, they said you can't come. Yeah, I want Who's got tarrier heels than you Be there babe, but but they don't he's on my back

No, job, but the kind of Bubba's you know. Is that his name? Bubba Cunningham? You know what Bubba's... You know how Bubba can be. Listen, Bubba's... He's tough. I think Bubba's jealous. I wouldn't say it to him, but I think Bubba's jealous. Yeah. That's my Bill Belichick impression. That's really good.

That's ours. Yeah, the most animated he's ever been. So the theory of why any of this is happening is a relevant conversation that I'm gonna... I'm gonna ask you to put a pin in that. Okay. Because the second update is that Bill Belichick's family... Uh oh. ...is extraordinarily concerned about what has transpired.

One Belichick family source told me, quote, "...there is deep worry for how detrimental Jordan can be for not just North Carolina, but Bill's legacy, reputation, everything he has built and worked for over decades." End quote. Carolina, but Bill's legacy, reputation, everything he has built and worked for over decades." In fact, the family has been digging into Jordan Hudson as well, in a parallel way. So they are conducting research. They are also in a rabbit hole. They're shocking to 11 herbs and spices.

I mean, might be understating the spiciness honestly at this point in terms of how this has gone behind the scenes. Because number three, Oh boy. What I've been told is that Bill Belichick entrusted Jordan Hudson with the power to run his new media empire. Quote, Jordan was my boss. To quote another, the level of cockiness to go along with the absence of resume is stunning. And the idea that Bill Belichick may not realize exactly the damage he's done to himself and

certainly his legacy and also to his reputation as a coach. And so, yes, this will be a story about leadership and genius and privacy and discipline and also crucially, the illegal sale of injectable erectile dysfunction drugs. Sorry? Wait, what did you say? I'm sorry, what? After the break.

Oh my god. Monetization is killing everything. So how the f*** did we get here, guys? How did we f*** Pablo? We started this off joking about Jordan and late last month, Bill Belichick put on a tattered Navy sweatshirt and showed up to what I'm told is his old high school in Annapolis, Maryland alongside his girlfriend Jordan Hudson who was Not coincidentally wearing her own Navy sweatshirt. No holes. She also has been telling people that she picks out all of Bill's clothes for him Odd choice then

But the goal as they show up together wearing Navy sweatshirts is to promote Bill's new book titled The Art of Winning Lessons from a Life in Football and are you familiar with CBS Sunday Morning? Mm-hmm. Coach thank you for doing this. You're probably thinking the same thing I was when I sat down with Bill Belichick. What's going on with this sweatshirt? Well you can see I've worn this one for a while. Do you remember how you got the cut here? No. Tattered and yes often sleeveless, Belichick's signature look is part of his singular focus. To be clear CBS Sunday morning I am told was trying to tell an extraordinarily positive story about how this coach's decision making could be a actually, for non-football people, too. The clip that kind of went out and got the most attention was a clip of Jordan interrupting

and seemingly inserting herself into the interview. Jordan was a constant presence during our interview. You have Jordan right over there. And the question she took the most issue with from that clip was they asked him... Everybody in the world seems to be following this relationship. They've got an opinion about your private life. It's got nothing to do with them, but they're invested in it.

How do you deal with that? Never been too worried about what everybody else thinks. Just try to do what I feel like is best for me and what's right. It was very softball. Like you are in a new relationship. We're seeing a different side of you. How did the two of you meet? We just meet.

Not talking about this. We're not talking about that. And in addition to inserting herself, there also is an element of asserting herself. It feels like it feels like it's not just like I'm in here to protect. It's also like the big dog is barking over here. Just just so you know, and the big dog's got her eyes on you. That's how it felt.

If you're a savvy PR person, a guard dog even, like you're not trying to be on tape. And what I am told is that yeah, the reports are true that there is like a half hour more of Jordan Hudson giving hand signals to him during the interview, kind of like a spy game thing honestly. A good PR person is not going, excuse me, hello, it's me, and inserting themselves. They're trying their best to smooth from afar. And they had an answer for that question. But instead what is happening is that there are lots of theories all over the internet

that in fact, Jordan Hudson is an only-fans model, a call girl, something along those lines because why else would you not want to reveal the truth? What I can tell you is that from all of the people I've talked to, they just think that Jordan Hudson, like her cover-up was worse than the non-crime that happened. And in fact, to verify all of this, what I can tell you is that, yeah, that flight, Boston to Palm Beach, 2021, a JetBlue flight. Belichick does fly commercial. He goes to hang out at the Golf Club of Jupiter.

That's why he got to Palm Beach. At the time, he was still with Linda Holliday, who was his 15 year girlfriend thereabouts, who was in her late 50s at the time. And Jordan was a philosophy major at Bridgewater State, who was dating a much older man whom we will meet later. But the date in question was February 11th, 2021. And we know this, of course, because Bill Balachek signed what?

The inside of her philosophy textbook or a psychology textbook? Which one was it? It was Deductive Logic by Harvard professor Warren Goldfarb. And there is the inscription, Feb 11, 2021. I will just call to your attention, of course, the Jordan. And if you just punch in even more on that second O, you might notice that it doesn't feel like on encounter number one, Bill Balachek knew that Jordan is spelled with two O's. Because he does the extra circle around what felt like clearly an A. And I believe that February 11th, 2021 is also incredibly important here.

Because in the attempt to like match all the timelines, because there's been lots of erroneous reporting, lots of seemingly very confusing timelines, February 11th, 2021 is very important because of this other video that we found. Jordan Hudson, 22, Hancock. Beautiful. If I may, beautiful. That was the first runner up of the Miss Maine pageant last year. That was 2024.

First runner up is second place, yes? That is. Just confirming for my brain. Second place. Thank you. That's correct. Um, Hancock, Maine is her hometown. That's population 2,466.

But the detail I want to call your attention to just for the timeline here, right, is how old she says she is. So this pageant, I can tell you, was March 2024. Okay, so deductive logic time. She is 22 in March 2024. So in February 2021, when they met on that flight using the powers of deductive logic, Jordan Hudson would then need to be how old? Michael Cruz-Kane, who used to teach math to kids. 19? Did I do math right? Jordan Hudson, 19 years old. Getting close. Bill Belichick, this is about to turn 69, I believe.

Nice. Sorry. Too well. I'm sorry. I'm sorry about that. You taught math to kids. Really? With the embargo? You're the one who taught math to kids. Jordan, you squeezed it. I'm sorry. I didn You taught math to kids. Really? With the embargo? You're the one who talked to them. Jordan, you squeezed it.

I'm sorry. I didn't want to do it. My God. Something that I did, I came from the center of the earth. Sorry, Pablo. I was a vessel for that. Please continue. I, I, I, can we take it out?

We all thought we'd... No, we're going to leave it in. God. But Jordan Hudson's age frequently has been... Oh, man. ...misscalculated, misreported. The LA Times last week had her at 21 years old at the time of their meeting. And one reason, by the way, and again, 19, that's legal, right?

I'm just trying to clarify the timeline. Sure, by the law, it's fine. By the law, it's fine. But there are other, man has other laws than those that are writ. That I believe is also a philosophy textbook somewhere. Yeah, absolutely. Signed by Bill Cower. That's right. The reason I've been wondering though, like, why does this keep happening?

Why does no one know? Uh-huh. Does connect to another question I've been pondering that I want to ask you guys. Have you ever mistyped your own birth year? Well, certain. I'm not that I remember specifically, but certainly I've mistyped your own birth year? Well, certain. I'm not that I remember specifically, but certainly I've mistyped everything. The reason I ask that question is because this is a question

that has been asked around the North Carolina football program. And it has been asked because I've learned of an internal document that has been circulating around said program. And you may be familiar, like, sometimes, whether it's a school directory or, let's say the wives and girlfriends of football coaches working at University of North Carolina, you fill out a directory. There's your address, there's an email, phone number, number of kids, their names, and your

birthday so that people can say happy birthday when it's time for your birthday. And Jordan Hudson put down her birthday on this document, I am told, as April 2000. April 2000. April 2000. So now we're getting a little older. Or she did not put her accurate birthday in the file. Okay. So now, okay. So back where we started. We don't really know. Well, we know based on a preponderance of evidence that her actual birthday is April 2001. So it seems like the reason she's so sensitive about the book thing is because

they didn't think through the fact that he was clearly talking to a 19-year-old. And now they're trying to cover that up. That is a lot closer to what might be the Occam's razor of why. There's another thing about it. Wait, can I say the same thing I was gonna say because I'm gonna forget it? Yeah. I'm trying to picture either you're typing it or you're writing it, right? If you're writing it, there's no way you write zero zero instead of zero one.

This was typed. Yeah. So if you're typing it... Yeah, it's just the same... But on your phone, the zero is not where the one is. It's not close to the one. And that is literally the argument that one of the sources that I spoke to at UNC pointed out. How the f*** could you mistake a zero for a one?

Yeah, you'd have to go out of your way. On a phone, on a keyboard. What a crazy little detail. And it's like you'd hit the same thing where you hit the... Oh my goodness gracious. So this specific mistake, quote unquote, feels instructive. But wait, you could put zero, maybe you could put zero twice. You could put double zero. Generously, maybe you could put zero twice. To put double zero.

Generously, maybe you could, maybe you double tapped it. Anyway, this is just pointing out the presentation, the theater of what it is to allegedly be the first lady of UNC football. It's a real puzzle, admittedly. It's a puzzle including for someone I would have to imagine, like Harvard professor Warren Goldfarb. Warren G.

I'm the Walter Beverly Pearsic Professor of Modern Mathematics and Mathematical Logic. And now you should add Emeritus because I've retired. Despite the title, I'm actually in the Philosophy Department, not the Mathematics Department. Warren G. did tell us that he is not familiar with Deductive Logic, his book, Raising Libidos in this Way. But he did tell us. Is this one of our 11? You really asked him that?

He's not one of the 11 for the record. Hey, sir, does your book tend to make people horny? Now, of course, I don't know the details of exactly what happened, but presumably, Bill Belichick had a seat on an airplane next to Jordan Hudson, and she was reading the logic book. She was taking the class that my friend teaches at Bridgewater State. Oh, I see. Using your friend's book in your class? He said, philosophers mount up. Of course, yes. Doing strategy in football is just complete with all kinds of truth, function, logic.

If this happens, then we should do that. If that of truth, function, logic. If this happens, then we should do that. If that happens, we should do this. If this happens, but that doesn't happen, then we do this. That's all truth, function, logic. So either Belichick was interested to see that what he did more on intuition, and he was obviously very good at it, right? What he did in intuition was actually could be formalized. Or it was just all old hat to him when he was just making conversation because she was a very beautiful young woman. Logic is too often derided as a dry subject.

I'm glad to see its romantic potential has finally been recognized. The illogic of this whole thing though, right? Why is she so protective of this question? Why is she so protective of this question? Why is she doing this? There is, I think, in our reporting, as Katie deduced, the whole, like, let's not draw attention to the fact that I was 19. He was almost 69. Legal, though it may be. Legal, though it may be.

But there's another theory, according to people who have dealt with her directly on matters of business, which is that she seems to be of a belief as she carves up Bill Balachek's brand, his life into different buckets of monetization. And by the way, she is the person who inspired in a real way the book that is at the heart of that CBS non-promo. She had read, I'm told, Ray Dalio's book Principles. like as an idea mill, as she's credited in the acknowledgments, she does come up with ideas like that book. But what the source has deduced is that she may be saving exclusively any and all talk about their origin story, their relationship,

for a potential reality show. No, no. No, no, no, no, no, no. Oh, no. So you're saying that she's protecting that information because it's in fact embargoed? She is somebody who believes that an exclusive means exclusive. Like, you can't talk about this anywhere else. This story is for a future theoretical project.

That is the theory from people who have had to deal with her. And the dealing with her, right? When did this happen? When did she get control over Bill Belichick's new media empire? So you may recall the time that Bill Belichick got a defenestrated from Katie Nolan's New England Patriots. That's thrown out the window. Do you think I need you to tell me what defenestrated is? I was doing it for them. Finestra, Latin, window, feminine, noun, let's go.

That window of time that Belichick had... A finestra of time, if you will. A finestra of time that he didn't have football to fill. He had, I'm going to count them down, a podcast for underdog fantasy called Coach. He had Inside the NFL for the CW. He had appearances with Peyton Manning and various kinds. He had appearances on the Pat McAfee show. And all of this was kind of conspicuous given that, again,

no one hated media more than that guy. And also, as you told multiple people, he'd never listened to a podcast before. But who among us? Not surprising. Who among us? Not not surprising. Who among us makes him doesn't listen to him, you know? So he shows up at NFL film studios in Mount Laurel, New Jersey. All of these things I've mentioned are filmed there at the one place that he trusts as a

media entity. It's the company that he grew up adoring and trusting. NFL Films, right? Like his dad is a coach. He is a football nerd. He has friends who've worked there for a very long time. The Hard Knocks thing, which is for those not familiar, the reality show where you get cameras all over a football building, typically an NFL team,

was gonna be for the first time a college team. It was gonna be Chapel Hill, North Carolina. It was gonna be this program. And it was gonna be produced by NFL Films. So this is, again, the organization where all of these shows had been taped. This was Belichick's sort of like comfort zone. And so when you get the news that Jordan Hudson, and this is something that I've confirmed myself, was instrumental in that deal blowing up because she was trying

to assert control over the negotiations. This is now how we arrive at a point at which Bill Belichick's insulation from these media things has absolutely just become a thing he has to deal with. And I think if the other thing about it is if UNC struggles, this is going to this is only going to get way, way, way, way worse. And at the beginning of this, as of the summer of 2024, Jordan Hudson was not in charge of everything. But there was one famous story that was witnessed by, I am told, dozens of people, including freelance contractors who were hired to work on the set for a seven-figure scripted commercial.

And yes, we're talking about another expensive commercial shoot here. This is Belichick. Talk to me. Double B. Tyrese. What's good with these white outs? He's gonna get in the end zone. No doubt about that. My man. William, answer the phone.

Billy V, my man. Cam. How's QB1 looking? It's looking more like QB3. My body rejects that. What I am told by multiple people among the dozens who witnessed the shooting of this is that what happened that day on set was, quote, highly unusual.

Jordan Hudson, who was at the time, like, a person they kind of heard about, but again, this is last summer. Yeah. Not quite the entity that we know now, nothing close. Had arrived on set and started immediately pitching herself for a role that had not been discussed in this scripted seven-figure commercial shoot. That would also serve as, quote,

the hard launch of their relationship. And she told everybody to hold on, actually, as this idea developed in her head, because what she did was she left set, came back some time later, and she was wearing a yellow polka dot bikini. Shut up. And a sun hat.

She would just be by the pool with him, that was the idea. Alright, were you... I pitched this to her. She left. In the room. She called me, she was like, what do you think would be a good... And I was like, get that, get that bikini on, girl. Said, hey, you were in Severance for 30 seconds. I was just wondering.

Whoa. Whoa. 30 seconds. Think about... Your face. Think about the scene though, right? So she shows up, she's wearing a bikini, she's walking around, Bill Belichick, if you're wondering, betrays no emotional change as this is happening.

Sure. And everybody around is like, again, this is like, as she called him on set multiple times, this is a star. She kept on calling him a star. We're paying him a lot of money. We're even pretending to listen to you because of the star, how much he's a star in our eyes.

So that part, right? The how do they manage this question. Because she's insisting the hard launch would be good for the commercial. And Belichick was going along with it. He's like, of course, I, yeah, this seems totally normal, like a thing you would do. And the crew had to figure out, what the f*** do you do now?

Oh, no. So the premise of the ad, according to my sources, was Jordan Hudson by the pool, sunning herself in a lounge chair, trying to get Bill's's attention that kind of a thing. Oh she added like script idea It wasn't just she'd be in the background of the shot. We saw she had motivation. Okay Taping for the actual commercial was done by then and so what they did was they filmed something That one source told me may have involved a camera that may not have even been on.

Oh my god, this is so embarrassing. It's like when you give a kid a controller for a video game and you play it and you go, you're doing great. Oh my god. You're driving the car. Oh, look at you go. Oh my god. They had zero intention of using it.

I got goosebumps. That is my, that's a real nightmare. That hurts me. I'm embarrassed. I feel feel it makes me feel for her Yes, unfortunately, I feel the villain up to this point in this particular story. I am like, oh gosh I I hope that footage is destroyed I hope that if there is any I hope there isn't any and if it is I hope it was destroyed I that's please don't have that footage right now, please

And No, I don't have oh footage right now. Please, Pablo. And... Oh, thank God. I believed him. I looked. Of course you did. I wouldn't be able to look. It'd be like the salt bath. Whatever that scene was. Which we do have! Oh my God!

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this, and the people who work on these shows are watching this, in this one central location where the mountain has come to Muhammad and everybody goes and like films stuff with Bill Balachek, the newly crowned media king of football who cannot get a job in the NFL, one source told me this, quote, I watched her power grow inch by inch. I can take this. I can take this, I can take this. And the question then is like, why wasn't anyone in the way?

Like why was the power vacuum so empty? And the inner circle of Bill Belichick is a fascinating thing. So it used to be managed, his PR used to be managed by this guy, Berj Nazarian. He was handling all of his personal PR. He was the guy who, as Bill Belichick, was very Nijerian. He was handling all of his personal PR. He was the guy who, as Bill Balachek was very hard to deal with. He was very easy to work with, but ultimately they said nothing. And that was, that was a good relationship.

That was a safe relationship. He's now, however, the chief of staff at Boston college, leaving behind a group with whom Bill Balachek still has a standing pre-dawn phone call every single day. You got Matt Patricia, the former defensive coordinator of the Patriots, and also briefly the offensive coordinator. That did not go any better. Uh, we can also mention that Josh McDaniels is also in this group. Also Mike Lombardi, longtime friend of Bill Belichick, former Patriots assistant, now GM at UNC.

And these are yes men. So I just want you to imagine being Bill Belichick. Bill Belichick is somebody who has been for decades, incredibly insulated from having to live anything resembling a normal life. He has been a coach. He has been in charge and Matt Patricia as was described to me, like this is quote, adore Matt. that's mean as well and I kind of feel bad about that but these guys like are watching Jordan come in

and they're like eye rolling they're kind of like nudging each other is the description but they're not telling Bill they're not telling coach this is a bad idea so she comes in and out alphas everybody. And that's how in a very short amount of time, in a period of months, they watch her take power. And so simultaneous to this, Bill Belichick, to the people he's doing these media projects with is repeatedly calling Jordan brilliant. He is telling them, you need to hire Jordan.

He told one of these media companies, I'm told, that they should hire her for a six-figure salary as part of their deal with him to make the show in question. But you can imagine what that work environment was like, where she was on every single call, every single email. They had to go through her. She ran his life. Media partners had to go to her to get to him. They commuted together all the time

from Boston to New Jersey. She was calling people into meetings. And connecting back to the CBS interview, she again didn't seem clear on how cameras and hot mics worked. And I say that because in another infamous story that circulated among dozens of people on set at the NFL Film Studio, Bill Belichick, Katie Nolan, you can imagine this, right? He's wearing a mic. She is whispering to him. Oh no. Off camera somewhere. Oh God.

The problem is that there are these things in television called control rooms. And at NFL Films headquarters, as Bill Belichick and Jordan Hudson are mic'd up, they proceed to hear them talking sh** about all sorts of people. They're talking sh** about graphics. They're talking so much sh** about the graphics people. They are not aware that dozens of people can hear them talk. How? Shwarden.

How are you not aware? You need just a bit. Everybody knows this trick. How are you not aware? Let me also, okay, here's what I'm gonna say. I think, this is a principle of my life, talking sh** behind people's back is totally fine. It's I encourage it. I think there's studies that have shown it's like important for human society to have that. Now there's now there's that. So I think that's totally I think that's you should talk about every talk to all the people. But everything goes out the window if they hear you. If they hear you. It's all different. It's a whole different ballgame. Yeah. They

heard that. That's pretty tough. That's really tough. And they hear you, it's a whole different ball game. Yeah. They heard them. That's pretty tough. That's really tough. And that, and you're saying that's all, and that didn't get out. Even though they're mad. That has not gotten out. Yeah. Are we ever going to go back to the part where nobody around Bill spoke up? Because I do feel that's a neglected part of this story in that we do seem to love, especially as an online public, we love a woman to put everything on.

And while I'm not in any way saying that Jordan is innocent or anything in all of this, it does seem like a number of people were in a position that could have gone, hey, this isn't cool, but they were so much more interested in their access to this power that they let it get really bad and are now like crazy, right? She's nuts. And you're like, yeah, you could have said something

a long time ago and helped your supposed friend by telling him the truth of what was going on here. And now you're leaving it to us. I would say that is it's tricky because even like, have you ever had a friend who had a significant other that you were like, oh boy, this person is trash. Yeah, I'm not good at this. I would say in my opinion, I'm like, I'm just gonna wait till they break up and that's what I'm gonna say. And I will say, self-awareness, I am on the other end of the spectrum.

I have made people very mad at me. Maybe it's not good. By, yes, by the other end of the spectrum being... And they're here today! Bring them out! No, it's, I have a tendency to be a little honest in ways I don't notice or uncouth until they've been said. So I think it's a good friend is to say, I don't know how to tell you this, and I might

not tell it to you right, but I don't think what's going on here is on the up and up. I would say at least that. I will safely say that Bill Belichick's inner circle could have used a Katie Nolan. Well, and I've been saying that for years. It's true. The parallel here that I imagine is like in succession, you know, the council of just like people who are just like sucking up to Lovan Roy, who are there because they're looking for like the scraps of power that fall off of his plate.

That is a lot of what I've what I've had described to me. And I am trying always to like balance how I don't have Jordan Hudson's perspective because she wouldn't talk to us. But the quotes that you hear from the people who worked with her, and again I think, look I just, I don't know how to diplomatically convey the following quote from one of the people who worked on these shows. Quote, she is the worst person I've ever met on earth and I've worked with multiple sociopaths. Oh boy.

Am I allowed to know the gender? I can't of course know the gender of who said that, but it does inform. I do wonder if there any of the gender of the people of our 11 spices if any of those spices Is a is a woman spice I can tell you that in Unquantifiable mm-hmm number among the 11 are in fact Ginger or cinnamon or or even baby baby even baby? Or cinnamon, or... Or even baby.

Baby. Even baby. Can you read that quote one more time? I started laughing at the word worst. You did. Didn't hear the rest of it. She is the worst person I've ever met and I've worked with multiple sociopaths. I mean that's pretty bad.

They still fear her today. Oh my gosh. Fear. This is a lot of... There's so much fear in this story. Fear! What are you so afraid of? A lot of fear. The NBA 82 Game Grind is done, and now the real fun begins.

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And look, I don't know all the answers to that. I just know that there is this guy, Joshua L. Zuckerman, dude in his mid-60s, coined as LinkedIn, he is the CEO of, wait for it, a geriatrics facility in Cape Cod. It's relevant because Joshua L. Zuckerman told TMZ the following quote, she is wise beyond her years, much more than any 20-something I've ever met in my life. The narrative about her character is not fair to her, end quote. And then also separatelysomething I've ever met in my life. The narrative about her character is not fair to her." And then also separately, I wish these internet trolls and paparazzi would leave her alone and everyone else alone and let them live their lives."

On Twitter, he under the name Joshua L. Zuckerman, not a ton of tweets, but one of them is a reply to Ann Coulter, and it is from November 7th, 2017, and it's simply, you go girl. I was just going to say you go girl as a joke. That's what it says. It is literally that. I almost jumped in and went, you go girl. That's crazy. That's very funny.

I'm so sorry. The place where he is very active though, is vivino.com. What is that? Oh no. I'm so glad you asked. Oh no. Is it like a- Is it for old souls?

Million users. Vivino. 65 million? 65 users. Vovino. 65 million? 65 million. My gosh. I'm now only appreciating the claim that you're spotlighting that's... A lot of people.

But it is the world's largest wine app and marketplace, empowering people everywhere to enjoy wine to the fullest. Not what I thought it was. He has written 1, 1208 wine reviews. Okay. The man likes his wine. And good for him. He's a bitch.

Plenty. Yeah. And I would like Michael to turn over his packet and help the audience understand what some of these reviews are. This producing. Okay, here we go. Joshua rated this wine five stars. This review says, where are you my love? Big hugs. Big full-body fruit forward, but complex

earthy flavors. Blackberries, big expressions of mushroom, blackberry, black pepper earth, young but showing its strength. Yikes. Okay, but wait, this actually sounds even more like talk to text because Where Are You My Love Big Hugs almost sounds like he's talk to texting someone and then talk to text this. This is an extraordinarily generous read of what this guy's deal is. What's his deal? Well, let's find out.

Should I keep going? Oh no. Okay, this is the Terras Gauda O'Rozal. A 2020 Rias Baixas España. Sorry. Absolutely delicious. Complex light citrus, lemon, lemon flower, lemongrass citrus. Oh my God, what a beautiful complex flavor. It's really special, fresh and expressive.

Citrus pear, grapefruit, green apple, lemon, honey, honeydewew honeysuckle. Oh my god. This is so lovely Oh my god some mineral tones lovely That's oh that's gonna be five stars This one here is oh yeah, let us point out it felt like he was oh my god drinking it while he was saying It felt like he was... Oh my God, drinking it while he was saying it. It felt like he was f***ing that wine. Okay, Pablo. Okay. I don't think he was.

That's alleged. This one, the vintner of this, I believe is Trump. Trump Meritage 2019. Oh my God. I'm surprised by the 4.0 ratings. He himself gave it a push. This is a good table wine, a good value wine, not overly complex, blah fruit, blackberry, black cherry, pepper.

Flavors are flat, non-expressive. As I said, a good table wine. Love Trump though. Enjoy. Just in case. No offense to my guy. I mean, absolutely. Why is everybody, including me, giving it four stars?

I don't think we needed to pull the... Big hugs. So Joshua L. Zuckerman, her ex, one part of the political spectrum, as very clearly self-professed. The other part of the political spectrum though, is where you might find Lee Hudson. Lee Hudson is Jordan's mom. Lee Hudson has a job in Provincetown, Massachusetts. P-town. P-town. P-town. Yep. What is P-town known for? Gay. Very LGBTQ friendly. Very LGBTQ plus friendly.

This is where I would like Katie Nolan to flip over her packet. We sent a reporter to Provincetown, Massachusetts, Lee Hudson professionally helped run a place called Toys of Eros. Hell yeah, Lee. Play safe! Exclamation point. Free condoms. Our reporter tells us that Jordan's mom mostly works remotely, isn't around a lot.

She has been declining to comment on any of this. But our reporter did take a tour of this store and its museum. Okay. And Katie Nolan, I would like you to reveal the exclusive reporting that we have handed Carter did take a tour of this store and its museum. And Katie Nolan, I would like you to reveal the exclusive reporting that we have handed you for this episode. Wow. So what I'm looking at here is it says there's a sign on the entrance door. I'm looking at a photo of the entrance door and it appears to have a sign on it.

And the sign reads, quote, in June, the US Supreme Court declared that any business may openly discriminate against their patrons. In response, Toys of Eros will no longer sell c*** rings to humans who feel entitled to make choices for bodies other than their own. Toys of Eros will no longer sell anal plugs to people who support the burning of books. Toys of Eros will no longer sell dildos to actual dildos wearing MAGA hats. Please note, drag queens, daddy bears, cuck suckers, bull dykes, I don't want to say that one,

F slurs, trans folks, muff divers, non-binary gender f**kers, and in general queers of any and all sort and their enlightened allies, both capitalized, E.A., will always and forever be welcome at Toys of Eros. Hell yeah. I love that. Yeah. Oh wait, I flipped ahead. Sorry, I'm not supposed to flip ahead.

Welcome to Toys of Eros. That's the sign on the f***ing door. That's right. Okay. So we walk in and what do you see? In what room? Informative plaques about penis sheaths made of gourds and worn by the tribesmen of New Guinea. Mm-hmm. The museum also contains historical artifacts such as the electric cage, which you can see here. My god.

So just to... That feels very rudimentary. A couple of the visuals on this. Kind of feels like it's some medical tape and a slinky and a can. And I would describe that as a borderline loose battery. Yeah. Just dangling. And like a cage, a slinky. In the frame there appears to be a little more higher quality version of whatever this

is. But the one that's on the disembodied person is troubling to look at. This is from around 1945, just to place this in time for you. Okay, so we're in World War II era. That's right. That's important. It used electric shocks to prevent masturbation and wet dreams. Hmm. I would say we weren't at a place with electricity by then that I'd be ready to do this.

I'd be like, you know what? We basically haven't figured it out. Also, it just feels like at this at this point, you know, it's not gonna work. Whatever it says. Oh this like it might work in that you might lose your d*** and then you can't jerk it. I don't know guys. Those wires seem pretty professional. It just feels like the second you're like, you know, look, David's been masturbating so much, we need to create a device. There's nothing's gonna stop David.

Right. Just let David get the slinky. Last but not least, a prehistoric 28,000 year old dildo made from camel dung? We had to put s*** in our p***ies? That's crazy. Hang on, the fellas are using these things too. Okay, you're right. Actually, that does make a lot more sense. I am so, so sorry.

After saying I was an ally, how dare I? How dare you disrespect one of the hundreds of phalluses made of stone, leather, bone, and dung that have been found during excavations. A dung dung, if you will. A dung dung. Dung dung ditch. Dung dung.

Well, that's something. I mean, honestly. And that's just sort of where it belongs anyway. So you're kind of just putting it back. Exactly. If you think about it. Honestly, this was a much needed release. I'm so glad we're not talking about the other stuff for just a second.

Now, you mentioned the technological evolution of such devices. I guess it's now time for us to talk about the aforementioned injectable erectile dysfunction drugs. Oh, no We're there. We can I make a quick joke 28,000 year old dildo. That's what she calls bill Nice really nice for the YouTube audience. We are high-fiving that they heard it. They knew they felt it Jordan's mom in 2017 I Guess I have to describe this as a legitimate local scandal I guess I have to describe this as a legitimate local scandal. Well, in where are we? Where are we again?

We're in P-Town. Yeah, P-Town. We're on Cape Cod and we're talking about free unlicensed demonstrations of the erectile dysfunction drug, which I am reliably informed is pronounced Trimix. Oh. Trimix. Problem with Try and Trimix in this unlicensed way is that it's not exactly legal. And Jordan's mom was the business manager for the store at the time.

You will not be surprised to learn at this point in our episode that this led to an emergency meeting of the Board of Health. Yeah. And one of the board members, according to a readout of the meeting, expressing outrage that the store owner has made no attempt to address the board. It is total disregard for the Board of Health. She thinks the store should be shut down. You shouldn't be injecting anything

in anybody without a license, I think. I would think in general, yeah. Yes. The house position of Pablo Torre finds out for the record is that we are not judging, we are just presenting information. That's all we are. Absolutely neutral reporter.

We're like the Walter Cronkites of this. The Walter Cronkites of injectable erectile dysfunction drugs. What did we find out guys as we try to figure out what all of this means? Who is responsible? What do we feel for? I would say that I found out that Jordan Hudson is a full person with a backstory and that it brings to mind that ancient saying, be kind for everyone who's fighting a hard battle.

And I don't know, I didn't really think about her deal. There's another quote actually brought to mind by this, which is every marriage, every relationship is a foreign country. Diane Sawyer said that on The O Network. And it really stuck with me. And so there is a part of me that looks at this and is like, look man, if I were watching it in a movie or reading it in a book and I knew that these were fictional characters,

I'd be like, something is f***ed up here. But they're two real people. He's an exceptionally smart guy. Maybe not in every aspect of his life, but at least in some part of his life, he's brilliant. Maybe but two people are getting what they want and who cares? They're both getting what they want. Do we believe, for instance, what Bob Kraft, the owner of the Patriots, said, as quoted in Seth Wickersham's really good book about the Patriots, he's an idiot savant. Which is to say, you can be a savant, you can be a genius in football,

but outside of it, we're sort of testing for the first time what that genius gets you when you are not surrounded by things that you know and have known for decades. I learned, and I probably already knew, so I guess I feel like I had confirmed for me just how many people are willing to turn the other way on anything and be completely emotionally dishonest with their friend if their friend is powerful and can in some way provide something for them. Or at least like keep them close to power. My take at the end of this is mostly that every disaster we've chronicled

seems extraordinarily self-inflicted. It seems like a series of cell phones and also cell phones. I was gonna say cell phones? Both. Cell phones chronicling cell phones and also cell phones. I was gonna say cell phones? Both. Cell phones chronicling cell phones. Whoa. Holy s***. Real eyes, real eyes, real lies.

Damn. And I say that because I think there's a lot of a very young person, and by the way, Silicon Valley is full of such people, right? Very ambitious people with no sense of unintended consequences. None. This is a very familiar prodigy when it comes to the study of power. The real estate she took, she grabbed. And the thing that Jordan Hudson considers one of the worst case scenarios here

as a result of the CBS disaster, which again, felt entirely preventable if one were more strategic or knowledgeable about the industry, a parallel through line through so many of the anecdotes that we have reported, is that she has been very concerned to the point of explicitly telling Bill Belichick and others that this whole disaster, this whole episode at this point, honestly, is actively undermining her chances to win the Miss Maine competition. And if you win Miss Maine, what do you get?

Well... She was a runner-up last year. Surely a sash. She's trying to win that sash this year. Yeah. The thing starts tomorrow. And if you want a twist in the next development in this script, I just want to point out that one of the contestants she's competing against happens to be a trans

woman and I think they have more votes than Jordan Hudson. I assume you're jumping ahead to the next step. Whereas if she doesn't win, this could turn into some sort of political stance. I'm just saying. Yeah, I don't have the patience for that chapter if that's where we're going. Same way I feel about Stephen A. Smith potentially running for president. I'm jumping off the roof of my building before we get to this. You're saying you're not looking forward to future defense secretary Jordan Hudson?

In the words of a very wise man on social media. Oh boy. Something bad is about to happen. This could be anything. This could really go anyway. You go girl. Oh my god. Cabo Torre Finds Out is produced by Walter Averoma, Ryan Cortez, Sam Daywig, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, Nealey Lohman, Rob McCray, Rachel Miller Howard, Carl Scott, Matt Sullivan, Claire Taylor, Chris Tuminello, and Juliet Warren. Our studio engineering by RG Systems, our sound design by NGW Post, our theme song, as always, is by John Bravo. And we will talk to you next time.