The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - PTFO - The Whistleblower: Smush Parker Tells His Truth

Episode Date: December 19, 2023

You may remember Smush Parker from his very public, lopsided beef with the late Kobe Bryant, but there is so much more to the arc of Smush's life story — from being a toddler raised inside "The Cage," in New York City, to bringing up the ball right before "The Malice at the Palace" began. And now, it turns out, Smush Parker is committed to another shocking quest: become the fourth former NBA player, ever, to become an NBA referee. Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/ZWFEMq7prXc Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to Pablo Tore finds out I am Pablo Tore and today we're going to find out what this sound is. And I'm like, yo, that was a terrible call. And then the light bulb goes off. Bing! And I'm like, I should become a referee. Right after the sad. You're listening to Giraffe King's Network. name smush has to do with you playing basketball and you would smush people's faces after they stole the ball and you would be that guy. I don't know what your pd is wrong in that fact.

Yes, violence was the origin of a pd alleges for your name, but your name is smush because why? My mother named me smush when I was a baby. And as a name that stuck, you know, I was introduced as a baby as baby smush and I grew up into just being a smush. Well, the name smush, the way it was meant by your mom, there's a cutesy aspect to that then. The opposite of being real physical in a game. Yes. Yes. It was a term of a darement given to my dad. And you know, when I was born, I just, again, I became baby smush.

I am actually William Henry Parker III. It's the first time I've actually shared that on air. So, Yes, already finding out stuff in public, I find out that I did not know. So I love that we're starting there because I feel, and this is just a theory that I'm gonna carry as a through line, I think,

through this whole conversation. Okay. The way that your reputation has developed has been a thing that you have and entirely been in control of. If you went by William Henry Parker the third instead of Smosh Parker, I feel like your life would not have been exactly the same.

Uh, I think you're right. I think I would have, I became, uh, I don't know, what does William, William Henry Parker the third sound like to you? That's what you sound like an executive at like JP Morgan. There you go. It would have been like, exactly if that JP Morgan. Part of the reason I'm excited to talk to you

is because you are an honest, and you have stories from position and a perspective in the NBA and pro sports that we very rarely get to hear from or inspect because you had an up close and personal view of the people of the egos of the business of the business of the superstars, the big names, the Hall of Famers. And we tell the stories typically from their point of view, we're obsessed with them, we catered to them, the business bends around them,

but you're right there in these scenes, in the movie scenes. You're right there, off the side, in the middle, in a couple of just crazy scenarios. It's like, we just very rarely ask, in the middle, in a couple of just crazy scenarios. It's like, we just very rarely ask, what does that guy think? The other guy on screen as all of this is going down. I'm not trying to say face.

I'm not trying to have a persona that other people think about me. I'm gonna tell the truth, I'm gonna tell my truth and whatever people, whatever opinions that people have on me, that's all in them. [♪ music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music because he is a native New Yorker, just the latest native New Yorker to come through the public to find out studios. But because few characters in sports history have been so minor as the annals of the NBA are concerned, and yet so major,

because Smush Parker, if you did not know, is most infamous for his extremely public beef with the late Kobe Bryant, the consummate winner, the consummate champion, who would do stuff like, you know, score 81 points in a single game. And the answer to the trivia question, who was the second leading scorer that came is?

Smush Parker. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha it just kept building. You know why I had to score 81. Yeah. Tough days, man. Listen to that applause as Kobe is wrenching his face to great comedic effect and smushing smush. It's the sound of people adoring one of the most popular players of all time, a guy who is still a role model today across the world. And also somebody who once called Smush Parker quote, the worst. And so that's all people really remember about Smush, but he's synonymous with being a scrub,

which I think is a shame. Because as we will find out together on today's show, Smush Parker has lived a fascinating life, and he's also embarked on a new career path that is both shocking and funny to anyone who has ever met William Henry Parker, the third. I want to get to where you came from because you're a New Yorker. And I want to bring on local characters. Okay. New Yorkers. And not far from here, correct me if I'm wrong, is the place where you became...

Yes, sir. ...the Sumo Sparker. ...correct. Westforth. Yep. Explain the cage for people who are not familiar. Well, I was born in 81, So I'm an 80s baby. My dad played basketball there. My mom played basketball and

You know back in the 80s. It was my crib growing up during that era, you know basketball and just the world in general, you know, we operated in community. The guys who was waiting for next would take care of me. You know, they were, Baby sisters. Yeah, they became babies says they would watch over me. Baby smushed. So when I literally say that, that was my crib growing up, I don't need me in my house.

It was my crib like my, where I crawled around and I got dirty and I was playing in the playground so I myself and those guys became my uncles and they just nurtured me. Yeah. And West Fourth Street, the cage, I mean, to be very, very clear about this for non-New Yorkers, this is a world famous basketball court. And it's the sort of court where imagine a movie and you might imagine something like the cage in so far as there are 20 foot high chain link fences.

All around, there's a three point line, but if you might, yo, if you shoot a corner three, you might be fading away into that fence. Four or three, there is no corner three. There's no such thing as a corner three, I was fortunate. That's right. Well, they call it the cage. So it's like you're playing inside of the zoo.

I like the cage. This is the number one street ball court. Like this is where basketball is out of purest. The guys that play here are very aggressive. So no one gives you an inch. To get an inch, you got to take it. It's the epicenter of competitiveness. Everybody out there is ready to compete.

You have the best of the Bronx, the best of Queens, the best of Manhattan, the best of Brooklyn, the best of Staten Island, all congregating at this one small little, what is it, you know, 25 by 15. So small. But the best of each borough, that's the court that they play in because that's where the best of New York City went to showcase their skills. Something that makes me laugh whenever I was watch pickup, walking by a court and being like,

yo, that guy's wearing jeans. That guy's wearing black air force ones. Yo, like what does that say about him, right? Just like, you don't know who's gonna be there. Not at all. People just get enough of work. Their construction jobs, their nine or five corporate jobs, and they have their basketball gear and the back of the car.

There was one guy who never not played basketball pickup without his Tim's on. He played pickup in Tim's. That's great. That is a New York legend at this point. The idea that a guy would play in Tim's. He would play in Timberlake. Based on that fact alone, I just know that I don't want to be fouled by that guy. No, not at all. That guy was tough. Tough as

nails. Literally was working with nails during the day. Exactly. So, so you bring all of this accumulated toughness from having encountered all of these people in this crazy ecosystem of street ball. And when you're there starting organized basketball, when do you get a sense of like, I might be an NBA player. I might make this an actual job. So I never not believed that I was making it to the NBA. Like there was

it ever a doubt. So when I when I saw when I watched Michael Jordan growing up and again, this is back in the 80s, early 90s and I was watching Mike destroy the next. Yeah, of course. Several times. Over and over again. Over and over again. And I was like, I aspire to be just like Mike. I wanted to be like Mike, just like those gay to rate commercials back in the day. Like Mike, if I could be like Mike. And I had a mindset of,

that's what I wanna do when I grow up. Well, there's a funny thing about New York guards, right? The knock on like the New York guard was these guys can't shoot. They can't shoot. Why is that? Because of how we play basketball. What was the most play game back in the 80s and 90s in in Shreepall? Like 21? Exactly. Everybody for themselves

may win. One against everybody else. Everyone versus the world. Let's just say there wasn't enough to run a full. So let's just leave the number at nine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nine guys in a park, one in a play competitive basketball didn't have enough to run full. So we played 21 and you had to go up against non-players. So naturally, instinctively, we had to create ways of scoring against multiple defenders. Intrafic. Intrafic. So you learn how to dribble. I didn't thought about this. We were totally right. And be a playmaker. And that's what we did in the 80s and 90s. We learned how to dribble the basketball. So naturally, we weren't in a gym or outside shooting jump shots. We were

learning how to create off the dribble. Yes. And that's the strongest part of a New York City point guard a basketball players game is being able to create off the dribble. Okay, so I'm gonna fast forward some here because you need to just explain what it's like to have a draft party where you do not get drafted. The disappointment was at the highest of my life at that point, embarrassment, a little confused because I was given word that I would be drafted as highest seven.

Mm. I won't say the team. I won't say the team. Who promised that I would be drafted at seven and that wasn't the case. So at the time in Times Square, there was a place called ESPN's, there was a sports bar.

Yeah, that is maybe the saddest place to hold a draft party where you go undrafted, a temple to sports and you're living a nightmare. Yeah. The good news is that you're incredibly resilient. I mean, the story of your NBA life, which we're now into, is remarkable because you're a guy who had almost zero job security.

Basketball hitting America is a business. No doubt. You know, not a lot of people know that. More and more every day. I learned that late. I learned that when I was 36 years old. I learned that 36 years old that that basketball, hand, America is a business. So when I didn't get drafted, I was like, you know what?

I'm good enough. There's nothing that's going to stop me from making that NBA. Let me get back to work. I went back to work. I earned a spot, a walk on spot on a few of the couple of years. My own guarantee contract.

Every day I came in with that workers mentality, that blue collar mentality, that I need to work in on my spot on this team. Because at any point, they could let me go. And it's not just any rookie season, it's not just any season, right? This is 2003. This is the year before LeBron James gets drafted.

And so one of my favorite videos. Oh my God. Are you talking about the other players? Yeah, yeah. I'm not saying other players who hated on this high school player coming in to the organization. I can lump them to that. It's a local news reporting, Cleveland.

Yeah. And you remember this, vividly. It's all of you guys getting interviewed, Carlos, Boos, or Darius Miles. Yeah. Because the team is, of course course on track to get the number one draft. Yes, and and and here is I know what you know, but the Lissiter's don't is the 18 year old from Akron truly you saved your day. You have better

players than him in his position already on our team, bro. His potential is probably Sky's the limit for him though. And he will come in and make a immediate impact like a Koran Butler, no different of Miami Heat. I don't think you can really just bring a high school player in and really just think your team gonna really turn around like that. What people were laughing at was of course everybody being like

Miss LeBron James kid when he shows up you can join our bandwagon But yeah, you compared him to Karan Butler which in your mind you're saying for for clarity was a was a compliment Yeah, at that time that's all that's you know Karan Butler where he could be can't wait a rookie for Miami heat Yeah, do you come in and made an immediate impact and was averaging double figures at that time as a rookie for Miami Heat. Yeah, do you come in and made an immediate impact and was averaging double figures at that time as a rookie? And I was like, yeah, this kid will come in and make an immediate impact like a Koran Butler did for the Miami Heat.

I didn't just limit them to a Koran Butler. You look by far the least crazy out of everybody in that video. But do you know I still get people almost every day who say, I was, yo, I hated all of the brides. She got tagged on LeBron's page, saying that these are my haters. So this is what I love about your life in basketball,

is that you're kind of like this forest gump character who winds up in places. And you're dealing with all of the consequences of like what it means to be in the future shadow of LeBron James. So we should go then to your time in Detroit. That's what happens next. You join the defending champion Detroit Pistons. Yes. Larry Brown is the coach. Which was a great cast of guys, great cast of guys. Yes. Rashid Wallace, you know, Tom Sibelius, Ben Wallace, and George Horace,

Rachel Hamilton, Derek Coleman, Lindsey Hanna, Dawin Ham. It was a team full of veterans. And here you are, like again, young point guard who is now on a second team in two years in the NBA. Yes. And there's a game at the palace at Auburn Hills.

Yes. And you might remember it. I remember it vividly because this happens. The palace of the palace. Then Wallace baseline inbounding the ball to Smush Parker. To Smush Parker, yeah. I'm the one with the ball right now. And this is the part that I love because no one plays this video from like 15 seconds

before. Setting up the action, past Rip Hamilton, down to Ben Wallace. There's the round our test hard foul. And while the mouse of the palace is beginning, I just want to point out where you are. I'm just watching. Taking it all in. Just for people who can't see this on the draftings that we regard YouTube, everybody else is in the scrum. And you are literally like your calm,

you're observing everything. What is going through your mind as you were standing? What, like 10 feet as the most infamous notorious Brawl in sports history is happening? You wanna really know what was going through my mind at that time? So I was playing for the returning chips to the tripistans who was being led by the great Chanty Billups.

So you can imagine I wasn't getting no play in time. And you can see here is the fourth quarter. I like less than a minute left. I probably just got in. I'm hungry. I'm like, yo, I'm on the floor. I'm excited. And then this breaks out.

I'm standing there like, yo, I just want to play basketball. What's going on? I'm just trying to get a sweat. So just to be very clear about this, your perspective as the mallas at the palace is unfolding is I was about to do something with this basketball and everything got in the way.

Exactly. I was like, dammit guys, can we just play? I'm trying to dunkle somebody. I only have so many minutes that I'm gonna have as a as a Detroit tested and my minutes exactly and everybody decided to start fighting. Germano Neil is punching a guy in the face. Stephen Jackson's running around. And Swish Parker is where? Half court watching it all because half court is the safest place

to be. I just like how the guy who grew up playing street ball in the cage gets the professional basketball and is like, you guys are out of control. Like you're the guy. I'm like, I'm not getting involved in this. I had no job security. Maybe if I had a five-year current tracking, I could afford to get suspended. I might have been in the way, but I'm not. I might have been in the middle.

It's a great point. So, okay, so you go from there, you go to Phoenix, and again, you just happen to wind up on the seven seconds or less, Phoenix Suns as Steve Nash's backup. Steve Nash, he's in the midst of an MVP. Yeah. And you're on a 10 day.

So I was getting any playing time again. But I was in practice, you know, working hard, you know, trying to, you know, let these guys know that I belong here. And I'm excited to be here, but I was getting a plan time. Yeah, this makes sense to me. What makes less sense is how you end up being the starting point guard of the Los Angeles Lakers the next season.

No, and it makes perfect sense when I explained it to you like this, when I was in Detroit, who was I playing behind? Conti Billups. When I was in Phoenix, who was I playing behind? Steve Nash. When I got to LA, who was there? I don't even remember. Exactly. So, seriously, who was our plan behind Steve Nash when I got the LA who was there. I don't even remember exactly

so seriously who was the one I remember they brought in Aaron my key from the Philadelphia 76 the beat up starting point guard because remember Phil Jackson like big guards and he was a six five point guard that's right who could come down and run the triangle offense. Yeah he was the big name man they gave them they gave him all that money to come there to be the star point guard. That's right and I was a hungry smush and Detroit, but getting no minutes behind trunty billops. I was a hungry smush behind Steve Nash and Phoenix those guys deserved the play in time. I got it. I was learning while I was there when I got to L.A. It was just Aaron McKee. And not to say he wasn't a good player, but.

But at this point in his career, he was on his, he was on his, yes, you're sensing this could be my job. Yes. And I went in, I listened, I went in there with the same mentality, I went in with, in Detroit, in Cleveland, in Phoenix. I'm gonna work to earn my spot.

So Phil Jackson is the coach. Yes. Kobe Ryan is a superstar, of course. How do you learn that Smush Parker is now going to be the starting point guard So Phil Jackson is the coach. Yes. Kobe Ryan is a superstar, of course. How do you learn that smushed parker is now going to be the starting point guard of the most marquee franchise in the NBA? So they never told me I was going to be the store point guard. I just showed up every day and I wasn't fired.

No, literally, I, you know, I went there to training camp. I, you know, fought and clawed my way through training camp, earned my way on a non-guaranteed contract again. Yep. Two years to sign. I guess I played better than most. Sure. Matter of fact, you know, I'll be, I won't be humble now.

I did play better than most in the preseason. And when it started this season came, I was still on the team. I didn't get five, so I showed up the next day. First game of the season. You know, Phil Jackson walks into the locker room maybe 10 minutes before the game. Says, Smush, you're starting tonight and walks out of the locker room. And that's how I find out. That was it.

That was the first time I didn't start in the preseason. I didn't start in training camp. I was never on the first team in the practice squad. So just for context here, okay, so Phil Jackson of course. When the greatest coaches of all time does then master Hall of Famer, master motivator. What was your relationship like with him before then? Never had a conversation with him.

We had training camp at Hawaii. And for, I wanna say, training camp at Hawaii and for, I want to say, training camp is about a month and a half. I was everything but smush. He never called me smush. He always called me smack smooch smuck. Everything, everything but smush. He smacked. Get back on defense. He smacked. Run the triangle. Smooch. Everything but smush. And it was just hazing. I guess I need to earn history spec like everybody else. Testing you. Yes, yes.

For people who don't know NBA history, this is after Shaquille O'Neal has gone. This is Kobe Bryant in, I'm about to win MVP mode. This is Kobe Bryant without Shaq going on to, I mean, at first year, many averaged 35 a game, 41 minutes a night for Phil Jackson. This is before Pogasal gets there. And so my understanding of your time in LA, of course,

really only clicked in after you were gone. Because this is, and you know, when you Google Smush Parker, what comes up 99% of the time? The few that I have with Kobe, unfortunately. But it's an incredibly rich text that I want to sort of unpack with you because I don't feel like it's been presented in a way

that totally makes sense. It does. Because the way that it comes into the public view, this is in October 2012. It says years after you're out of LA. And he says, I quote, that I'm sure you, you are, unfortunately, being reminded of by me, theth person he says this he's talking to steve nash by the way okay he this is him telling the story i tell steve you want mvp

but i was playing with smush parker he's playing with leandro barbosa i'm playing with smush and quame brown my goodness smush parker was the worst he should have been in the mba we were too cheap to pay for a point guard. We let him walk on.

And that's the quote. And when he says it, of course, there's like, ha ha ha, it's funny. Like he's, you know, whatever, talking trash on like his old teammates. Like that's amusing to people. But at the same time, it was like, where is this coming from? Mm hmm.

What is your understanding of what sparked his comment, seemingly out of nowhere? So that spark has been there for years. You know, it was, you know, something that a snowball that I created. I did a small, like, little interview outside of West Forestry. At the cage? At the cage, you know, somebody was holding a recorder and a little camera.

And this was, I want to say, the summer of 2007, my years after LA. Mm. And they asked me about, you know, my time in the NBA, my time as a Laker, my time playing with Kobe Bryant. And when I got to answering about my time with Kobe Bryant, as normal, I answered it, honestly. My truth, you know, what my experiences were.

And I said it was an overrated experience. Playing with Kobe. Playing with Kobe Bryant. And now everybody who's a fan of Kobe's, including the interview was like, hmm, explain. What do you mean by overrated experience? And because I have inside information, because I dealt with this man for two seasons and my

my locker was here, his locker was here for two seasons. Right next, like I watched this man put on his shoes every day for work. Right. He watched me put on my shoes every day for work. Starting back court together, you two. Yeah, so I was speaking for my experience, it was overrated because the man never spoke to me. I wasn't the 12-man on the bench. I wasn't the call up from the G League who was trying to just fill a racist spot. I started with this man.

I was his coworker. Like we shared a cubicle, side by side. How do you do that for two seasons and never hold the conversation, never I was subbed good morning, you know, do you need anything? Can I get you a cup of coffee? You know, how's the family? Nothing. Two seasons, side by side. And that's what I said, my next comments, hurt his feelings. And therefore, he had to retaliate.

So what did you say next? I shared a story about how I did try to talk to him. You know, I'm like, I'm the starting point guard with him in the back. Well, let me just try to talk to him. You know, I'm like, I'm the starting point guard with him in the back hole. Let me just try to talk to him. And I, you know, said, did you happen to catch the football game last night? And he looked at me, honestly, looked at me and said, you can't talk to me.

You need more accolades on your belt before you come talk to me. He was dead serious. Mm. I'm not even gonna get to, you know, how that disrespect was a man. Man a man just. Self evident.

Yeah. So that set the tone, never spoke to him again or tried to for two years as a starting point card. By the way, like you had your best years in LA. In LA. Yes. Right? Like it's not.

And anybody who watches those Laker years so that we worked well together It was a chemistry. So when I say that you're best years I'm not saying yo you got to know swish parker was an all star I'm saying that swish parker playing off of Kobe Bryant scoring 35 at night was getting steals You are moving the ball. You're running the triangle as best you could with a guy who didn't want to have a double digit points with going with six or seven shots per game and to your point, right? You had some big moments. I remember you jammed it on Andre Miller at one point. Yes. Good job. Lakers have the numbers on three on two.

Spush with the right hand. Spush, Parker's talking to the right. You had that big steal on Steve Nash in that series against the second remaining. In retrospect, it was the back and forth that carried on. No, it was this comment that actually I'm sure set those wheels in motion. I said the problems in LA and start with Kobe Bryant. And I felt that way because as the leader, as the captain, as the star of the team, if you don't communicate with your teammates,

how is the team supposed to be successful? And so this is where it gets to 2012, 2012 now and Kobe is talking about how. Yeah, I'm gonna give him his little 30 minutes of fame again. I don't know. It's all good. How's the show? I'm pushing the best of luck.

He's quite a China right now, right? He's gone over there, come on. We're pushing the best of luck. Maybe he'll get back to the end game one day, because he looks like he'll close. There's the interview that he gave where he's like being asked. You know who was the second leading scorer when you scored 81? I have no Smush Parker. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha And then in 2019, he's talking about how, you know, if he's being triple teams, well, the pins are on the team. If I got smushed park a leg, I'm shooting the best believe I'm shooting them.

If I got deep fish back, dude, I'm kicking that back. Still, and I'm just like, and so the thing about your name, it almost was a verb for what he was trying to do to you. He was like trying to smush you like a buck and it became this joke. And it became a joke that everybody used. Well, if you checked the numbers, just check the numbers. I was a third leader, scored that team, third and scored behind him, a little more older, which I should have been as a walk-on player.

What does it mean to be the other guy in the picture? The other guy without the job security, the other guy who's scrapping for everything, the other guy who was trying to prove himself at a point at which he's encountering what one of the greatest superstars of all time considers to be leadership. Right? Like this is, I think even Kobe later on, not ever specifically addressing you, right?

Because he never liked anything about you that was positive on the record. But what he did say, I think referring to this time was like, that wasn't him at his best as a leader. People didn't realize, you know, the teammate that Kobe really was. You know, one thing that Kobe was a massive was putting on a face for, you know, the world to see. Yes, as the ultimate. And I don't want to, I'm not talking about,

I'm not talking negatively, negatively about the deceased. Of course, and I think something I want to make clear here too, is that like, at a certain point, when you are a historical figure Like Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan or Wil Chamberlain or cream or whoever it is, right? Like I believe that we should talk honestly because we look to those people as role models Mm-hmm

And so when someone is like this is what it was like behind the scenes. Mm-hmm I actually think it's important for us to not mythologize beyond what is deserved, even as we are diplomatic and respectful. And again, I'm not taking away from the player Kobe was. No, no, no, indisputably at all time, great. Yeah, he's one of the greatest. No question.

Like one of the most decorated athletes that I've played his game. I was there. I mean, you just rarely hear someone be like, it was overrated because, and fill in all of the blanks in a way that'll make people be like, no, you're wrong. I don't believe you.

People don't believe you, Sbush. Mm-hmm. They don't. As players who play with them, we have our own conversations in our old stories, and we share the same experiences, but when we get on this right here, when we get in front of the cameras, they say something different.

Or they don't speak on it at all. Right. Like, I've been the only one. Literally, the only person who's been brave enough. And this is of course before he passed and then after he passed, I just want to be very again, I want to be sensitive to this in so far as the tributes, the love I am not saying do not feel that way. If that was your favorite player and he was, of course, a tremendous player.

Yeah, of course. Did you ever try to reach out to Kobe Bryant? I did try to reach out to Kobe Bryant. It was after the 2012 comments, but before everything else like, you know, 2019. Oh, oh, so this is like in the middle of it. I started to attend this church led by Pasadilly, Stryker, Jr. and he's the huge, just Lakerfair. this church led by Pastor Louis Stracket Jr. And he's the hugeest lake affair. Hugeest lake affair.

Which means he's the Kobe fat. I thought it might be a cool thing to do to reach out to Kobe to see if I get him to sign a basketball over and maybe a picture to give to present to my pastor for Christmas. So I wrote Kobe a letter, and I don't remember what it was. Yeah, paraphrasing, yeah.

Yeah, paraphrasing, but what I do remember saying was, young mind, young thoughts, young words, you know, and I said, I'm sorry for what I, you know, said in the past. And the letter went on the answer. I had a good response back from Kobe, but he did sign the basketball. He did sign the picture. Well, what happened from there was he continued to talk. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Exactly. And so for you, I mean, from there, right? Like, it's just crazy where you go next. Cause you end up playing with the Miami Heat. And the way you get that job is nuts. Is incredible. Yes. How do you get this job with the Miami? So you want to talk about polar opposites

I'm hanging out in New York. I'm watching the Roy Jones fight at 40 40 By myself and who comes trolling in 40 40 by himself also she killed O'Neal Naturally, so we end up in the same we are piecewee and who comes trolling in 40, 40 by himself also, she killed her new. Naturally. So we end up in the same VIP suite, just watching the fight, just me and him. And we are sharing Laker Kobe moments. Ha ha ha ha. Now that is a TV show.

I mean, just you and Shaq reminiscing about what it was like. Bonding. Just Bonding, just no. He's the coolest guy you love on me. By the way, and had his own, of course, very famous enmity. Yeah, enmity. Yeah, you couldn't do it out me.

Kobe, you can't do it out me. Kobe, you can't do it out me. Everybody, Kobe, tell me how my ass tastes. Yeah, you can't do it out. Me and then later reconciliation with Kobe favorite moment that we ever had was on the bus leaving the arena, leaving our core arena. What we do. When we got there, people were moaning us.

Uh-huh. So I went to the game. All of us put our ass on the window. Hey, we moaned them. The guy was like, can we go and just lift that? Thank God he had cameras. Yeah, that was a good one.

That was my favorite moment, man. That was my favorite moment, man. And, you know, I'm a free agent at this point. So he asked me where I was playing at next. And I said, you know, I'm a free agent, you know, still shopping around. And, you know, he makes a phone call. Long story short, the very next day, the very next day my agent had a two year contract with Miami.

Guarantee this time. My first Guarantee contract out of the six year career that I had in the NBA before I decided to leave. Well, hold on, hold on. So, why did you decide to leave the NBA? It was just stealing the love and the joy from me. Out of the game. The game that I love so much that I grew up playing. I love basketball, love playing basketball. It was fun. Yes.

I was good at it. I knew I was good at it. I proved that I was good at it. That part of the game for me proved that I was good at it. That part of the game for me at that level just became unfun, so I decided to leave the NBA and go travel the world. So when you say travel the world, you mean this quite literally. Yeah. Give me the list of countries that Smushparker played in. Two seasons, two years in Greece, one of championship in Greece, played two years in China, one two championships in Greece played two years in China, when two

championships in China played in Russia, Croatia, Lebanon, Dominican Republic, Venezuela, Mongolia, Tunisia, and Morocco. That's Carmen Sandiego, yeah. We're in the world as much Parker. And the treatment that you experienced abroad versus what it was like in the NBA was how different. Oh man, I was the Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan on the table. I like playing. Part of the movie of your life, and I believe it is a movie, by the way, is you go from being

the other other guy in these photos in this game film, in this viral clip to now being a guy who was treated as the center of attention. And that must have just felt incredibly profoundly fulfilling after being deprived of that. I was never in the game of basketball to be notarized or to be held up on a pedestal. I just wanted to play basketball and I was able to do that overseas.

It wasn't worried of, I'm not gonna be here tomorrow, or I have a non-guaranteed contract, or I could be released, or this guy is, you know, he's making $50 million a year, but he can't hold my gym shocks, so he's getting a play in time because he's being paid this.

None of that was just basketball. And that's what I loved about playing overseas. It's funny, right? Like in the world of NBA fandom, it's like, oh, you played overseas, you're a scrub. Yeah. Go to the world of real life, and it's like, I have three passports

because I traveled the world being paid to play basketball. Talk about it. And some of the most beautiful countries on the planet. Yes, sir. Is literally a dream. Yes. I have a world of experience and worldly knowledge that I wouldn't have gotten if I just stayed here playing basketball here in the States. And that's in that too is the beauty of basketball. Yes, sir. It's a global game. You actually got to feel like what it's like to to win a championship in Greece. In China.

Do you know that in Greece, when we won this championship, they literally like turned the city upside down. And as far as the I can see was just fans in the street. I'm up there holding the trophy. And like I can hear the chats from 30 stories out. It was incredible feeling. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ What I imagine must be frustrating at the center of this, as you have been portrayed by all of these people.

Now collectively following Kobe's lead is that you just didn't love the game. You didn't want it bad enough, right? Like that, this part, the mob mentality idea is I want more than everybody. I'm the hardest worker. I love the game. You don't get on my level or go And what you're doing now, what you're trying to do now, is maybe the most undeniable way to express how much you love basketball. Yeah. Because, Smush Parker, today is trying to do what? Become an NBA official.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. I laugh, I laugh, I laugh, of of just like this movie is crazy, right? Because how do you get the idea to be a ref? It was a seed planted back when I was 13. Every Saturday morning, I will wake up 5.30 a.m. religiously to get to the gym by 8. And the guy who ran the gym, he was like, listen like listen your hair every day you know how to play basketball do you want to ref these eight nine-year-old youth games for 15 20 dollars a game so

that's what the seed was planning didn't know didn't have any dreams of being in a referee when I grew up that's just what I did that was my first job and so when does the thought enter your mind as an adult, I want to do that. You know, going into my mid-30s, my body's not reacting to say, I'm not healing as fast, I'm traveling the world, but now I want to be more, you know, at home, you know, in the States. So I'm thinking, what can I do with life after playing basketball? What am I going to do? For the next 40 years of my life. I think I was watching an MBA game and I'm like, you know, I was a

terrible call. And then a light bulb goes, oh, Bing. And I'm like, I should become a referee. And so when the light bulb goes off, do you know how many players had NBA players had attempted this before? No, you didn't know any of that. I didn't know any of that. No, because the list is short. Very short, extremely short. Hey, would work, man.

Bernie Fryer, Leon Wood, and you're trying to be number four. I'm trying to be number four. Have you talked to those guys? Because the transition from player to ref is, I hope, self-evidently, like, uh, fascinating. And crazy, in a way, to be on both sides of that eye. I actually have, hey, we're working this number on speed dial. He's devoted himself in helping me in this process. But the back room structure of like how to become one of those guys with a whistle, we're talking about 70 to 80 full time NBA raps. There are 450 to 500 roster spots for players. So the math, the statistics, actually harder to be an NBA.

I've said that I said it might be harder for me to make the NBA as a referee than it was as a player. So you're trying to do, you're trying to shoot the moon twice. I'm trying to do the impossible twice. But to be a ref, like there are, what tests, there is, there are like, there's a ladder. There's the equivalent of like a hierarchy got a clem of. Yes. That ladder is very vast. That information that you need to know is very vast. And what are people? A lot of people don't know is the rules are different. Yeah. Which is shocking to even me. Why is high school rules different than college rules and college rules different than NBA, when it's all the same game.

Doesn't make sense to me, but. But now you gotta learn all of it. Yeah, even down to the mechanics, the way you may cause a different on each level. So when you say the mechanics, you mean like actually how you raise your arm. Yeah, they want us to, there's very structured. They want us to look a certain way.

When I watch the game, I'm like, oh, a ref is gonna call something in the first quarter, differently than they would in the last minute. And so there's like an art to how to control a game. So there's a thing that they call at the pro level, advantage, disadvantage. Let's just get this on air right now, because everybody thinks that contact is a foul.

People think that basketball is a non-contact sport and that if this contact is an automatic foul, no. Basketball is a contact sport. There's legal contact, and then there's a legal contact. But not all contact means it's a foul. Let's just address that part. Let's just address that.. Let's just address that. I love that ref smush has finally got in the building.

Let's just address that. Now we take that illegal contact and we add, advantage disadvantage. So if you're strong enough to play through certain contact, then affect you, we let it go at that MBA level. So what is in terms of the thing that opened your eyes the most in terms of like, oh, I as a player had this totally wrong. What's the thing that you now appreciate that you didn't.

The entire game. I didn't know the entire game of basketball. You're shaking your head. Roof with it. The entire game of basketball has changed in my eyes. I knew how to play basketball, that I know the rules, not at all. Nobody outside of the referees knows the rules of basketball.

No, it seems simple. It seems simple. There's a level of this game that I didn't know. And I am almost ashamed that I actually spoke to referees when I played. I am, no, for I am ashamed. And when people, when players talk to me now as a referee, you just laugh.

I chuckle because they are just as ignorant as I was. If they knew what we know as referees, they would approach the game of basketball differently. I love, I genuinely love that you use we now, because you're a ref. And I wanna know what your colleagues as when you're a player, what do they think about you crossing to the other side?

They laugh at me. They laugh because they know, I know what kind of person I was. Put it this way. I used to show up to tournaments and put my tech money on the table. I'm getting a tech to scare. You were the problem. I was the one who, I challenged the referees to show up. Amazing.

That's what I did. If I was going to be on my best game, was the one who I challenged the referees to show up. Amazing. That's what I did. If I was gonna be on my best game, I want you to be on your best game too. So I'm gonna put my first tech money up right now because I already know that you're gonna be falling asleep, that these guys out here just for a hobby in a paycheck and some extra and then that taking this game seriously

that working up a down the court. No, no, no, no. If I'm putting my best foot forward, you have to put your best foot forward. I'm gonna call you out on, you know, not seeing a foul call. I'm gonna challenge you and I'm gonna, you know, say some things to wake you up

and not disrespectfully. Of course you would go from that guy. To, yeah. To, to, to hopefully the fourth player gathered to come and rough. God has, I say it all the time. God has a sense of humor., God has a sense of humor. The God has a sense of humor.

I say to myself all day, every day, like here I am a rough, free eyes, really can't believe. I'm a rough, free. I really can't believe it. Right, right. William Henry Parker, the third. Thank you for being smush. Thank you, PT. I appreciate you for having me. Now, thank you for being smush. Thank you, PT.

I appreciate you for having me. No, thank you for being around your old neighborhood. For a little bit. For a little bit. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ This has been Pablo Torei finds out a metal-lark media production, and I'll talk to you next time.