The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Share & Atone & Tell with Nick Wright and Kevin Wildes

Episode Date: January 10, 2025

The co-hosts of "First Things First" join their arch-frenemy to debate: Should incorrect predictions be embarrassing? What's the best word in the sports discourse? And who is famous best? Plus: the second-smartest person in sports media, ranking rankings, flying cars without stereos, Sully Sullenberger, The Sam Darnoldification of Sports, and an ice-cream sandwich compliment. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre. Today's episode is brought to you by DraftKings. DraftKings, the crown is yours. And today we're going to find out what this sound is. I'm not acting, but thank you. Not only is he acting, it's just a character. He's just a real life character. Right after this ad. Say hello to Tim's Selects, Tim's everyday value menu. Enjoy the new spinach and feta savory egg pastry

or our roasted red pepper and Swiss pinwheel, starting at only $2.99 plus tax. Try one or try our full Tim's Selects lineup. Terms apply. Prices may vary at participating restaurants in Canada. It's time for Tim's. You're listening to Giraffe King's Network. What a delight to have you both here, by the way. You know, thanks for having us.

You're taking stock of your surroundings, Kevin. Well, I've seen them. I'm a big fan. Oh, yeah. Waiting for Nick to chime in with a compliment, but none has come. I didn't, I don't like to come over the top on someone else's compliment. Yeah. And I also don't like to lie.

Mm. So, I was in a weird spot, you know, kind of a double way out. But, uh, by the way, evidently my hair is getting screwed up by the headphones. I think it looks great. Your hair has been looking good. I appreciate that. All of our hair is looking pretty good. Pablo's got great hair.

Wiles has great hair. My hair is fine. I'm in a room with two people objectively with better hair than me. My hair gets grated on a curve because I used to have a shaved head and people thought that was by force than by choice. So people oddly think this is like fake hair. But set that aside.

We're gonna rank everything in the room by the time this episode is over. Rankings matter. You know what? Can I just say something? These people that think they're too goddamn good to like, oh, for lists and rankings and whatever, that's what life is.

I'm not into people that think they're too good for what everyone enjoys. Rankings are number one, dude. Yeah. Ranked rankings. Rankings are number one. As far as ways to organize things, number one rankings.

Number one rankings, number two, art. And that's the end of the list. Just rankings and art. Yeah. Let's all get claps though. Good. Clap. That was a good clap.

Clap. Missed it. Best clap, Nick. Second best clap, me. Worst clap, Wildz. Okay, so you should know that the reason that I've decided to start the new year with Nick Wright and Kevin Wilds here with me in studio is for a very particular reason. Nick and Wilds, in case you did not know, co-host a popular sports television show called

First Things First over on FS1, or as they called the show at the start of one episode last year. The show that's going to vanquish Pablo Torres. Oh, come on! Don't put that on the air! Why, I'm serious about it. Okay, alright. If you want to do it, we're going to do it together. And shout out to their co-host, by the way, Chris Broussard, who you could hear at the end of that video just then,

just immediately washing his hands of all of this. But my feud with Nick and Kevin actually began a lot earlier than that. And so I needed to begin this episode, which will go unusually deep inside of the business of sports media and the art of giving takes and the crafting of magic words and the ranking of celebrity, because Nick started off originally as a solo radio host, and Wilde started off as a television producer that I worked with at ESPN. And I just needed to confront them about the last time that the three of us had been together

in person, which was naturally at Kevin Wilde's family holiday party. Okay. December, 2023, Nick. It's the Upper West Side. It's almost Christmas. I see you. Yes. And you say to me something that I've been waiting over a year

to talk to you about. Great. Because I have no recollection. You say to me. This is great. I think you're the second smartest person in sports media. I called you second. I would have thought maybe third, but sure. Yeah.

Did I have myself first or Balmonte first? I never followed up until now. I want the rest of these f**king rankings. Well, do I think I am the smartest guy in sports media? Obviously I think that I would, I would, and I think I am the smartest guy in sports media? Obviously I think that. I would, I would, and I would think anyone that is in the lane I'm in, if they think there's someone smarter than them, I would lose respect for them. Is the lane you're in breathing person? No. I don't think I'm the smartest person in the

world. That's ridiculous. I don't even think I'm one of the... No. But I'm in an industry where the barrier for entry of intelligence is not exactly high. How dare you. How dare you. And the lane I have is the annoyingly accurate smart guy. He has been ready about the Chiefs. You called that one. That is at least one third true, annoyingly accurate smart. I would just ask the audience, what else are we going to assign my success to? My look? No. My, I got a great voice? No. Connections? No. Athleticism, no. Likeability, pretty clearly not. It's like

god damn it, that guy really irritates me. But he's smart, I learned something, and he's right a lot. That's a great take. I mean what do we assign Wilde's success to? He's incredibly handsome, he's one of the funniest people I've ever met. He's super likeable. If he had all of those things and was the smartest guy in the room, I don't think he'd be president. But this is the... I don't know if I got complimented or dissed there. I think it's 60-40 diss. It's a real ice cream sandwich of a compliment.

That ain't great at all. But I also think it really says a profound amount about you that it stuck with you for 14 months because it means that you operate under the same assumption I do. That you're the smartest guy in the business. Hard to debate that actually. Yeah. Oh, you want to be the smartest to? Want to be is a real loaded clause.

You guys are... Do you know what you said about Fortnite? See why this guy's my rival? Do you see? This rival's thing is more interesting. Do you get it? Having like a... We're 30 seconds away to debating the salary cap.

The reason... Second apron. Look at the second apron. That doesn't work. It's so important for Wild reason... Second apron. Look at the second apron. That doesn't work. It's so important for Wilds to be here. It's so important for Wilds to be here. Because I think... So punitive.

Can't make anything happen. Shut up. Meanwhile, Wilds' take is like, why is it an apron? No, that's not... Why is it an apron? Okay, here we go. No, do the rivals thing. I want to catch people up on that.

Oh yeah. Which is that Nick declared on LeBretard's show that he has rivals. Kevin Wilds makes fun of me because he says that this is an insane way to look at my career. But I just assumed everyone looked at it this way. Which is I have a rivals list. Everyone in the media that is within two years of me or younger than me, I must vanquish and I must be more successful than. I have to do it. They are all my rivals. And the reason I mention it is right now rising to the top of the rivals list is Pablo Torre and he will be vanquished.

The top Pablo's younger than me. Pablo made fun of me a bit on the show the other day, which only solidified that he is my rival, and it doesn't matter that we're friendly, it doesn't matter that he's always been kind to me, it doesn't matter that I was at a Christmas party with him, I will vanquish Pablo Torre. You guys at one point were both like young. I've known Pablo for so long.

I'm like, remember when Pablo was like the young guy at ESPN? Pablo's young and you were young. And now you're 40. I am 39. I mean, that's basically, that's 40. That's even worse than 40, honestly. I don't know. That's a good take.

I don't think that it is unique in any industry to look at the other high achievers that are around your age and measure yourself against them. So everyone that was around my age, even though we're not young anymore, they're all rivals. And then I tried to set up like a beef. It didn't really take off. Yeah, I was. You said some bombs or you said some swear words. I like, yeah, I know.

I think I think I went. But I think we were on vacation. I like, why do you launch the the rivalry beef? I hate Nick Wright now. OK, and which camera can I can I can I speak into this? They're all yours. Oh, yeah. All of them. Nick Wright, fuck you. Kevin Wilds, you're a C-word.

Capitalism. Content. Capitalism. You guys run a break. I think Pablo started a beef, but we're not even going to respond. First things first was on vacation and I was just yelling into the noise editing phone in this room. This is a message from sponsor Intuit Turbo Tax. Guys, taxes was waiting and wondering and worrying if you're going to get any money

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Now this is Taxes Get an Expert Now on TurboTax.com, only available with TurboTax Live, full service, real-time updates only on iOS mobile app. See guaranteed details at TurboTax.com slash guarantees. We do have a segment that I wanted to do and the segment was going to be take atonement. And when I texted you guys about this immediately and unsurprisingly, Nick refused to play along with the segment. Wilde was down, I was down, you were not. No, again.

You want me to read into the court transcript of what you texted? Please, and see if the audience thinks that I refused. Also just lie, say he said something. No, read exactly what I wrote. Pablo, you are the number one smartest person in sports media. Strike it from the record.

And then Wilde's replies, I'm in. The next morning, Nick replies, I'm not saying I'm not in. Exactly. But I'm sure you guys will understand that asking me to compile my allegedly worst opinions assumes facts not in evidence. Parentheses, that such opinions exist. Close parentheses, period. New text, this could be a herculean

Undertaker exactly so as I stated before I never said I wasn't in I just said it's gonna be hard But I've got some things ready, but do you want to go first since you guys were the ones in first? You're saying that you have generated. Yeah, I've got some ones that didn't work. Is it this one? I'm ready to move from the flirtation stage to the commitment stage and I am picking the Chicago Bears and Caleb Williams to win the NFC and to be a rookie quarterback representative in the Super Bowl. Yeah I mean that's the obvious one. Now I am curious if Jaden Daniels were to make the Super Bowl that take becomes basically

half right. Because most of the people's objection was a rookie quarterback's never made the Super Bowl. And it would have been like, if you say, hey, an asteroid's going to hit Earth in Peru in 2028, and an asteroid hits Argentina in 2028, you weren't as wrong as the people who were like, no way, it's not coming. You were definitely more right.

And so, Jaden Daniels season kind of indicates the opinion a bit, but obviously didn't go that way. There's a whole nother sliding doors thing of Tyrick Stevenson doesn't taunt the fans and the Bears get to five and two and Jaden loses that game, what we're talking but no that was a bad take the thing about sports predictions is their predictions and the you know as as try as I might can't flawlessly tell the future yeah that would have been probably I don't know

if that would have been the number one draft pick for the wrongest take I've had I mean that's a take though that was just the one from this past year I mean that's a great take though yeah That was just the one from this past year that came to mind. I mean, that's a great take though. Yeah, obviously. You're saying the process of the take was good, the result was bad. If the take cuts through and it makes sense, it's a great take. It doesn't necessarily have to be right or wrong. What was your request since you have the text pulled up?

The request... Bad predictions? It was actually, I thought it was a magnanimous offer. It was a take exorcism. We all volunteer a take that we are embarrassed by. Oh, if it was just one take, then that would have been, then it wouldn't have been Herculine. I thought we needed like a long list. We do have this take also just for the record on that.

I don't believe in the Eagles. I don't believe in their coach. And I'm starting not to believe in their quarterback. Yeah, I mean two-thirds of that applies I don't believe in the quarterback and I don't believe in the coach that now I was dead wrong on Saquon and his impact and Brew nailed that yeah The thing that I was gonna bring to the take exorcism was I did pick the Lakers to beat the Nuggets Oh, yeah the Nuggets. Oh yeah, I love that. That was my shining moment. James, a bump, a feed, a print shot. No! Zeroes on the clock!

The Nuggets advance! They have won! Here's the other thing. I don't understand people being embarrassed by incorrect sports predictions. I think that old takes exposed guy existing has been one of the greatest things that ever happened in my career. Because I think there's a lot of people who are like, oh boy, I don't want to get old takes exposed.

Let me water this one down. The fuck do I care? Like what do you like, like, oh no, oh no. This loser is gonna retweet the thing that I said six months ago. I like that guy for the record. Isn't there some amount of tension though in being guy who is the most right and being guy who does not feel an ounce of pain when he is wrong? Isn't that in conflict?

Can you be both? Because I take so much pride in being correct, I should feel shame when I'm wrong? It's a classic having cake and trying to eat it as well situation. How so? Because you want to be the guy who's right, but also when you're wrong, you say, I don't actually get bothered by being wrong. Well, it's the... It's a lot of upside, but almost no downside that you are willing to absorb.

No, I fundamentally disagree. It is the life of a, in a different genre, professional gambler. I knew it. I knew it. Which is, I am going to, in a theoretical world, be the world's greatest sports better. And I'm gonna make millions of dollars a year betting sports. And my path to doing that is being correct 56% of the time. And part of that means I know going in,

I am going to be wrong two out of five. And if every time I'm wrong, I'm like, oh, what am I going to do now? Then that is you are the ultimate trust the process guy. You are the ultimate. This is unfortunately true. And so, no, I don't, I don't go into every football season saying, well, we're going to be perfect. I go into every football season saying, I'm gonna be better than all my rivals. And luckily all of them year after year convinced themselves the greatest team any of us have ever seen is

probably not that good. So I start off way ahead. Yeah. And I only need a few other things to fall to be the rightest one. Nick does have a remarkable thing going wilds where, and again this is not an original observation, but somehow his portfolio includes LeBron James. I said this a few months ago, and I believe it 100% to be true. He'll never be bad. And Patrick Mahomes.

You know why teams do weird shit when they're playing the Chiefs? Because staring across the sideline and seeing Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid terrifies them. And he has marked himself as an underdog somehow, despite those being the two items at the top of his list. Can I be prying and rude on the subject of Nick's relationship with Patrick Mahomes

and LeBron James? Sure. The idea that LeBron or Patrick Mahomes would be in the midst of some take storm and they would see yours and be like, thank you for saying that. Yeah, I think they appreciate it. Yeah. I think they appreciate it.

Shingoon has never reached out to me. All I do is sing the guy's praises. Alfred, I was really on that. But Shingoon is learning from Joker. He's baby Joker. Okay. He is. Okay. Baby Joker.

Okay, that's fine. Shingoon, I got you. Being his personal attorney has not. I'm just like the pro bono publicist for Shingoon. This dude is out here. It should make the All-Star team. You really should get more love from Shingoon. From your guys.

Yeah, because my guys... Well, hold on. I rock with my guys hard. Matt Jones did start following you on Twitter. Oh! Yeah. Does that mean that he's not being submitted to the center of the table for a take atonement? No. I mean, I can get into that.

I thought that that's what you were going to get into. Never. But now it seems like you're compromised. I was never going to leave Mac Jones basically because Sam Darnold, I'm telling you this, the Sam Darnoldification of sports, you want a $5 word, Darnoldification. Sam Darnold's success has made it possible for me to never sell any bad take

Anywhere play action stepping up launching downfield Twisting turning touchdown Jefferson, Minnesota's back in front like Sam Darnold was Given up on by the Jets, the Panthers. And then when he got to the 49ers, what was it? Shanahan is like, he reminds me, like why can't Sam Darnold be good? Steve Young got good at 30. And we're like, whoa, that's a compliment.

That kind of hit my radar. Like time to get into the Sam Darnold take business. And Sam Darnold is amazing. So why is, is Mack Jones right now as good as Carolina Sam Darnold? Probably not. But never leaving, but point taken. That's it.

It's the ceiling of guys that I'm never giving up on anybody until they retire. And like, I don't know maybe USFL he can he can come back. But the point the point you're making is that Sam Darnold was a turning point in the sports discourse such that because he has had a comeback like this now we cannot write off anybody. Certainly quarterbacks who are so situationally coach wide receiver offensive line dependent. Sure. What I'm getting though is that neither of you are gonna play this game. I know, what do you mean?

You're both rejecting the concept of having a take to a tone four. I've said three Pablo, you haven't said one of yours. Ben Simmons. Am I giving up on Ben Simmons? He gets his back healthy. Ben Simmons unfollowed me on Twitter. Ben Simmons is my answer.

You're giving up on Ben Simmons? I think I have to. I'll believe in Ben Simmons then. I think I have to. My take on Ben Simmons is my answer. You're giving up on Ben Simmons? I think I have to. I think I have to. My take on Ben Simmons was always, and this is, I'll do a little Nick Wright for you. Nick, if I gave you a flying car, you'd be impressed, right? Sure. If this car was the fastest car in the world, you'd be impressed. Yeah.

If this car didn't have a stereo, you'd be bummed, but you'd still think, incredible car. Yeah. If this car didn't have a stereo, you'd be bummed. But you'd still think, incredible car. Yeah. That's Ben Simmons. That's such a terrible take. I'll stick with your analogy. If because the lack of brakes exist, you're afraid to drive the car fast, but it can go fast.

You're afraid to take it on the freeway, but it can drive above traffic, then it doesn't matter, it can do all those other things. The other guys in league history who have had a hole in their game, it didn't metastasize in a way that it undermined every other piece of their game. And that's what happened to this kid, and I don't know, I don't know the full psychology of it, but it's been, we've known it for five years. I don't like that Nick has workshopped my take into a better take.

Although I think my analogy is still good. Is Ben Simmons number one fan and supporter available real estate? Yes. You want it? I mean, if it's available. What we have found out today is that Kevin Wilds can become the number one Ben Simmons guy. Yeah I'll do that. Pablo wants you to atone for a take. I

have atoned for the record. I don't know why I'm not playing along. What take am I atoning for? I atoned for the Saquon not working with the Eagles, the Bears making the Super Bowl, Derrick Henry not making a difference for the Ravens. I'll throw in. And the Lakers beating the Nuggets in last year's playoffs. So there's four off the top. I don't think I need to atone for anything. How about no one's beating the Nuggets in a seven game series and they won literally one seven game series.

And then blew a 20 point lead at home. That wasn't great. How do I remain so confident? I'm always reminding myself, no one's beating Denver in a seven game series. I'm going to say it a hundred times. I'm always reminding myself. I'm not atoning for that though. You can do a non- non sports take atonement.

I didn't specify. You can do any... Is there any take, Wilds, that you regret that you've come around on in the last year? Or more. We can do more. I'll give you one in the meantime while you're thinking. A non sports take that I've just been wrong about. I'm like, you know what? This is good.

He said he has one he wants to give you. Yeah, go ahead. I'll brainstorm. I'm a morning guy now. I used to want to stay up late. Now I wake up at like 5.30 a.m. Is that a take or just like an evolution of your life? I think I was... Like, mornings suck.

I think I was dead wrong. Yeah. My take previously had been, I will never want to wake up this early. And now I'm regularly waking up this early. And it's better. Yeah. I get so much more up this early and it's better. Yeah. I get so much more done. Yeah, it's better. Yeah, the mornings are great. Also being a dad, I feel like I get to spend time and you know. Yeah, that's the take. Mornings are better than night. Yeah, I think that's just maturity. This also brings us to the vocabulary portion.

So what is this portion? It's just the idea. Favorite portion. It's your favorite? Yeah, go with Tala Pabla, sorry. Wild set it up, please. Words that work for sports debate, maybe like magic words. My favorite is deserve. Deserve is one of my favorite words.

Does Lamar deserve to be a 10 point favorite? Does Russell Wilson deserve to be a 10 point underdog? Do the chiefs deserve the buy? Like what, they're 15 and one. Yeah, they do. Yeah, but do they deserve it? It's just so good. So I was trying to-

It's weighted with morality. Oh, it's just fantastic. Do they cosmically merit this thing that has- So do you know the other ones that we use on the show? Reaction. No. What do you mean? Nick's so bad at this game.

He's so bad at this. Why would I be good at this game? I don't even understand the game. The correct answer was disrespected. Okay. Is Sean Payton being disrespected? Okay, I get it. Those are right. And another one, should the Lions be afraid?

Oh yeah, that's good. Of anyone in the NFs. And we do another version of that, which is how scary are the bangles. Are the bangles the scariest? The scary, yes. Scary. Scary is good too. Because it's very like, you get immediate reaction.

I'm like, I'm scared of that. But the subtext in the best vocabulary words in this way are always the words that imply some level of disrespect. Yes. Deserve, disrespect, fear. Unfair we use a lot. Unfair that blank, unfair is this unfair, but it's all based on disrespect.

Justice, a cosmic sense of justice. Well, yeah, it's to get... Wilds wants more emotion and less analytical responses. Yeah. Typically that creates the analytical responses. Yeah. Typically that creates the best show. Yeah, some sort of some combination of the two. Yeah. But an emotional response with a, with a statistical foundation is nice.

Yeah, no, no, no. It has to be based in fact, but a feel to it. Yeah, that's what makes... With philosophical kind of a clash. So I did high school debate. One of the things that I learned is that a key to ensuring a messy disagreement is to never define the term that you're actually debating. Oh, and be valuable. Valuable, greatest.

These are things where Nick has... Nick's brain has already activated. If you were to put an fMRI on Nick's brain has already activated. If you were to put an FMRI on Nick's brain, as I said those words, you would have had already like a decision tree of just arguments about. So in the debate team, that's something from like the, I'm not totally, I've seen a few debates when I'm not totally familiar with the format. But that's something that the initial.

You will have to spend time in your opening case, like saying that you define the terms. You attempt to define the terms so that you both agree on what you're arguing about. And if you don't, you end up eternally debating Michael Jordan versus LeBron. That sounds great. Like if you were to just dive into it without agreeing on what value means, you would never actually engage, or at least you wouldn't engage with what the other person is actually trying to say

until like several levels into the argument that you were making. That's the fun part though, taking the fun out of yourself. It's like you're taking the fun out of it. Well, that's what I mean. Messy disagreement is actually- Yeah, I like the messiness of it. Great to watch two people really good at disagreeing do,

but really bad if you're trying to resolve anything, which is why you don't actually want to have a word that is so clean and binary. You want to have something that you just lose yourself in. Okay. Yeah. Now you know. Got it. I hate you guys. What? That was bad. That was interesting. It seemed like there was a period at the end of that. Got it. I hate you guys. What? That was bad. That was interesting.

It seemed like there was a period at the end of that. Here's a question that I've genuinely been curious about with you guys. The best forum of famous. Who is famous best? Whose fame do you want? The whole world is available to draft. Whose famous do you want? Is whole world is available to draft. Whose famous do you want? Is there any financial association to this? Yes.

Or is it just the fame? There is financial association with it. You can monetize it, you can do whatever you want. No, no, no, that's not what I mean. What I mean is, do you get this person's fame and wealth or just their fame? I'm not saying you can then make money off that level of fame. I'm not saying you can then make money off that level of fame.

What I'm saying is... Do you understand what I'm saying? Like, do you understand the question I'm asking here? I'm making a list. Because like, I don't... This is not who I would pick. I don't think Chris Bosh's fame is hyper hyper monetizable, but he's got a couple hundred million dollars already. So I'm asking you in that scenario, if you were to pick Chris Bosh, do you take with you the couple hundred million dollars?

Hmm. It's probably more interesting if the answer is no, that you're just getting their fame. Right. Right. It's celebrity. Do you have an answer for this? I have a draft pick. Okay, I want to hear hear yours if that's okay. Yeah. Yeah. I want to be Mike Trout. Mike Trout? I want to be revered among those who know what it is that I do and respect why it is that I'm good at it. Yeah. But I

also want the plausible deniability of ever actually being identified as or stopped as Mike Trout. I mean as far as a number one pick stopped as Mike Trout. I mean, as far as a number one pick, like can Mike Trout get into every restaurant? Because if you can't, if like, if Mike Trout and his wife are going to like, they said it's going to be 15 minutes, maybe 45. I'm like, she'd be like, honey, you're Mike Trout.

I know, but I play with the angels. But what if, what if Mike Trout has I know, but I play with the angels. What if Mike Trout has his assistant, that's just him, who has registered Mike Trout Assistant at Gmail. If I'm having a fake assistant, then I'm not famous enough. Send a reservation request with a hyperlink to my baseball reference page.

I don't know if that plays. I think I have a better answer. Let me hear yours. What do you got? Sully. Sully Sullenberger? Yeah, hero. Hero with a mustache. I think hero, like hero for being cool, not just saving

lives. You didn't just, you know, you're not a scientist that, you know, wow this this invention that you made saved a lot of lives, which is very good. Don't get me wrong. Like, no, I saved lives in a dramatic way in the city. Now with the Tom Hanks movie, I guess he had to go to... People were mad at Sully for some reason. Yeah, but yeah. I didn't like that part at all. Did they cancel Sully at the end of Sully? No, he was in the midst of it.

People were... There was... If the Hanks movie is correct, he was really raked over the coals about did you actually have to land in the Hudson. Yeah, I don't know who's given Sully. Yeah, I would have gone to the congressional meeting. They came in, Sully. The events of January 15th 2009 have been well documented and rather than recite them now in great detail I want only to reiterate to the subcommittee that the successful outcome was achieved by the actions of many I think Sully is Just great everybody loves him

But so but maybe he's got some waning pain, but he's just right, but so you are hero is nice I think you want people say thank you heroes. No, but like but let you are hero is nice. You want people say thank you heroes No, but like but let me ask hero is pretty sick. Let me it definitely sick, but let me ask question To me that that answer tells me you don't value at all Like recognized on the street. No, that's probably a detriment. I don't think famous people like that at all So I think some people don't. Others, Tommy Devito's agent lives for it. That's a good level of fame.

But your draft pick is Tommy Devito's agent. No, that's not my draft pick. I was just saying, so it was just interesting that Wilde's picked a guy who I think Sean Stilado only yeah, right only becomes Recognized upon Introduction and never randomly. Mmm. You understand? I mean like people hear the name and I think most people know it but you have the stash I even with the stash stash. the stash, no one believes in you.

I gotta tell you right now, I don't know what he... If I close my eyes and think of that guy, it's the thing of Tom Hanks. Like I don't remember what the guy actually looks like. And if he was walking down the street, I wouldn't know him. What happened to us on the way in, that to me is awesome at that exact level. When we were walking in the building, somebody just walked by, I was like, hey fellas, love the show.

Like, that's a great like endorphin boost. Yes. I also think being truly famous would be exhausting and I don't think that would be fun. No, but if the guy was like, hey, why I was gonna say yeah, he's like, you're amazing for landing a plane and not having to remember saving all those lives.

I agree. Thank you. I'm trying to think of the name of like who this describes. Cause my answer would be someone who, if they want to be recognized, is wildly famous. And like you said, can get in anywhere, no weight, but also with sunglasses and a baseball cap on. That's Mike Trout.

That's the Mike Trout. That's why I drafted Mike Trout, Nick. But you're saying that Mike Trout couldn't, can't just get in. Wait, wait, hold on. Are you describing like a DJ? Like I'm Avicii. No, I don't. People are like, oh my God. No. I a DJ? Like I'm Avicii. No, I don't. No.

I'll be honest, I'm lying here. I'm lying. Whatever level of fame I have, I enjoy and I would like more. So this, I don't want to be anonymous. I don't think, I think it would bum me out. It would bum you out to be anonymous? Yeah, because I... I appreciate Nick's honesty. So here's why.

I unfortunately relate to this. But I've never, and you're gonna laugh at me, but just follow me here. My entire adult life, I've had tiny, slightly increasing fame. I buy it like Kansas City. Right, so Kansas City, right. And so at 23, once a week, someone will be like,

yo, love the show. And it's just slightly, so not only am I, has it never been weird for me, because it's like watching your kid get taller, like you don't actually recognize it it because you see them every day. You know what I mean? Like it's just been... But also, I have no recollection of it not being there. So I think Wilds had a whole successful career without any real fame associated with it.

And now, in the last five years, has gotten increasing levels of fame. So Wilde has a standard to like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, everything. Like I was an adult with a wife and kids and none of this. Yeah, you're like a child star basically. No, that's not what I, again, that's why I said you're gonna make fun of me.

But to Nick's point, you Kevin, were a producer. Yeah. You were like having secret meetings you, Kevin, were a producer. Yeah. You were like having secret meetings with Kobe Bryant, once upon a time. Secret, but... But that's what you were doing. You were like producing like shows for the most famous and inconveniently famous people. Yeah. And Nick and I have been...

Clawing up celebrity mountain. This is me pantobiming, digging my fingernails into a tree trunk of celebrity. Yeah, so that, so I think my answer is like Daniel Day Lewis. I drink your milkshake. I drink it up. Because I don't think he... All that dude tries to do is hide. Well, but he's different than me. It's such a perfect answer for Nick.

But I think that he... It's such a perfect answer. I think that Daniel Day-Lewis, if he wants to just go out and go to Walgreens, is able to do it. But I also think he's like, shit man, I want to be Daniel Day-Lewis tonight. He obviously can be. That seems awesome. I guess so. You're like the chameleon.

Yeah, so like, so I, cause I initially, so someone like Mark Wahlberg, that seems exhausting. Like he just has to be Mark Wahlberg at all times. Yeah. And everywhere he goes, like anyone that feels like I have to, you know what? I have to have security. That seems exhausting. Right. Mark Wahlberg walks around thinking that he could do a better job

of saving people on an airplane than Sully. He did do an airplane movie. He also believed he could stop 9-11. I have another one. Yeah. Again, it's super it's even more anonymous. He also believed he could stop 9-11. I have another one. Yeah. Again, it's super, it's even more anonymous. I wrote Winston Wolf famous. Oh.

As in the fictional character. The fictional character Winston Wolf, where for some reason he's in a tuxedo, so he must be in... That's facts with you. He's rolling in these interesting circles. And when, who does it? Ving Roms. Ving Rames. Ving Rames, excuse me. Is you, who does it? Ving Roms. Ving Rames.

Ving Rames, excuse me. Did you earnestly pronounce it Roms? I didn't know, I don't know how you pronounce Ving Rames name, but now I do. Mispronunciations are fine because it means you learned it by reading it instead of hearing it. I may have just misremembered it. In any event.

It's true. And then, seeing a little Jackson, like they're very excited to see him. It seems like he's got a nice car. He has connections at the dumpster. You're Jimmy, right? This is your house? Sure is.

I'm Winston Wolf. I solve problems. Like it just feels like- He's there to help you get out of a bind. But not necessarily like, I don't want that to be my job necessarily. No, but what you mean is- Within an industry, I'm considered really...

Drug kingpin famous. That's an interesting type of famous. I think it's quite dangerous. I understand, but it's the same type of thing where it's like you are anonymous to everyone except for the people who know who you are, and to those people, you're a big deal. And in that element, that's also kind of like a Sully thing. Except Sully did his thing. I would urge you to reconsider.

And do Mike Trout? Taking Mike Trout. Huh, take Mike Trout? He gives you drug kingpin fame. I didn't want that. That was him. I do not want drug kingpin fame at all. No, I was just trying to, maybe I should use a different analogy. Phil Ivey.

That's a good level of fame. Where, once again, people who know know and to those people you're a god. And visually conspicuous also. But also you're, you know what I mean too. That's what mine is, but it's like I can wear a tuxedo Yeah, I'm big on like if I can wear a tuxedo. That was a good question Pablo Do you have a list of questions that we should have let you ask and said we just said dumb stuff for 40 minutes We've reached the end of the show. And at the end of every show, we talk about what we found out today.

Because it's called Public Torrey Finds Out. So I will ask us to go around the table. We all say what it is we found out after hanging out with each other and finding all this stuff out. I have found out that Nick Wright drafting Daniel Day-Lewis is the perfect answer for a guy who I can't tell is acting or not. You can't tell if I'm acting? I think you are a method arguer and that is the highest compliment I can pay to you. I'm not acting.

I don't think he's acting. It's just a character. He's just a real life character. What did I learn? That Sean Stiletto was in fact Tommy DeVito's agent. No, I knew that. I saw you at Yankee Stadium by the way. At game five.

We said hello to each other. Yes, but I think Sean Stiletto was also there. Yeah, I know. That's the bit that I saw you at Yankee Stadium by the way, yeah game five We said hello to each yes, but I think Sean Stilado was also there Yeah, I know that's the bit that I eat Sean Stilado You know how why you recognized him because he was walking around begging people to recognize him and hoping someone said Please take a picture with me like that's that's why Wiles doesn't like me saying this because he thinks it's mean and it is mean But sometimes truths need to be spoken. You go on what you learned and then I'll go. I also just learned that truths need to be spoken. I learned I hurt Pablo's feelings at your Christmas party.

I don't think you hurt his feelings. Yeah. I don't think that was a takeaway. I've learned, I found out that Nick is projecting onto my feelings. Maybe his feelings don't hurt. No, it's not. I'm trying to find a nicer one because the one that's actually there, I feel like it's not.

Take it. Kind. Take it. I think you guys are nuts for not wanting to be anonymous. Like I feel like you're like headed towards, you're going to be in the old folks home, you're like, hello. I'm like, it's just, I don't know. I'm going to be podcasting till I die. So yeah.

I guess. Call me crazy. I don't know. The external validation is a little concerning for me. I didn't have you guys pegged for that. Really? You didn't have me pegged for that? For external validation? What I have found out is that Kevin Wilds is terrible at pegging people from the ex. No, I didn't. For external validate, I didn't know. No, because you kind of like, I don't know. I thought the art of the take was good enough. No. Like, can I ask you a question?

If you were on a deserted island, but this set up, just you, do you think you would give takes? Of course. That's what I'm saying. But it would just be a mic plugged into nowhere. You'd be like, all right. Yeah, no. So both things can be true.

That it's just like the act in itself is fulfilling. A thousand percent that is true. The process. What is also true is I have become addicted to the occasional, what I call it, endorphin boost or ego boost or whatever, of the stranger saying, you know, saying, like what you do, recognizing me or whatever. And I have become very, with something that I do not, is not a positive trait, but I recognize recognize it I've become very impatient on lines

because like I still go out to clubs and stuff with my wife and I used to know there's a line we'll just wait in it and I just don't have the capability anymore I'm like no I can't that's not that's not a public-facing thing you think that's just getting older? Yes. No, so I maybe but it's... My time's running out. As soon as you get old, try...

The older you get, the less interested you are in lines. Like if you're 88, like man, I've got limited time here. That part's true. I'm not waiting in a line. Yes, but it's also why I don't think human beings are wired for fame and I just I think it is unnatural and it's prior to the last 20 years very very very few people were actually had any fame and everyone wondered like what's happening to society, whatever, that's too wide ranging. But I truly believe millions of people now having an element of notoriety or fame via a social media following is the

symptom of so much of people losing their minds. People get more anchored to opinions they had because they used to be able to have a bad opinion anonymously and change it, but now it's like, ****. Eight years ago, I posted on Facebook that I believed this and now I'm'm tied to that like a bad sports take that people won't let go of. And I think that people have started manicuring and curating their own belief system to what they think they're following likes. Because people aren't wired to deal with fame. And so I think one of the other pieces of that is once you have an element of it, I think most people feel they need it. I'm not saying it's healthy, but I think

it's more typical than you would think of people who've been in the public eye for a long time needing to keep some relevance. What are you laughing about? Can we end the podcast with a funny story? Proceed. Belmont Steaks. We're there. Fox has it.

So we're there. I've got my kids with me. Did you, oh, you brought, um, I brought my daughter and her best friend. There's some executives there and it's just a great time. And then Nick is, there's, I felt like maybe I'm just telling myself this, uh, but you had some like gambling crossover that maybe people recognized. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I felt like, maybe I'm just telling myself this, but you had some like gambling crossover that maybe people recognize you from poker because they're a little bit of poker. Nick's a globally competitive poker player. Thanks Pablo. Nice thing you said to me two hours. Guy comes over to like the little, you're in like little squares, and the guy comes over and says, oh, Nick, love the show.

And I'm like, I'm on the show. You know, I'm on the show. It's hard to like consume the show and not be able to stumble across me, you know? It's like, I love the steakhouse. Like, I'm the salt shaker. Like, I'm there. I'm not saying I'm the star of the show,

but I am there and you usually have to spot me. And then Nick very kindly senses this kind of tension because the guy's talking about the show, but I am there and you usually have to spot me and then Nick very kindly senses this kind of tension because the guys talking about the show and You know Wilds because he goes I don't know Wilds right here and the guy looks at me He goes I think he said do you want a picture with him and the guy goes yeah Didn't walk away Just kept talking to me didn't walk away. No Yeah, buddy, it's not even on film it's It's it's not like when I was growing up like we only had 12 pieces of Kodak and we don't want to waste one

There you go. My level of fame Kevin Wilds Nick, right? I mean this when I say this Two of the greatest guests that's not in history. Oh, I mean this when I say this, two of the greatest guests in the history of Pablo Torre Finds Out. Why is it a trick? Because remember you said it's like a messy entanglement. Thanks Pablo. Bye Pablo. Pablo Torre Finds Out is produced by Walter Averoma, Ryan Cortez, Sam Daywig, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, Nealey Lohman, Rob McCray, Rachel Miller Howard, Carl Scott, Matt Sullivan, Claire Taylor, Chris Tuminello, and Juliet Warren.

Our studio engineering by RG Systems, our sound design by NGW Post, our theme song as always is by John Bravo. And we will talk to you next time.