The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - South Beach Sessioins - Don Lemon

Episode Date: September 17, 2026

“I’m not afraid of Donald Trump’s punk ass at all... he's a coward.” Don Lemon pulls back the curtain on his explosive CNN exit—what happened behind the scenes, why he stopped watching the network while he was still working there, and how his husband still carries grudges for him. Lemon also opens up about being arrested at an anti-ICE protest, why he believes he was made an example of because he’s “Don Lemon” and his arrest would make news, and the emotional release that followed. Now, with his own business and The Don Lemon Show, he says he feels liberated—and more connected to his audience than ever. You can watch “The Don Lemon Show” on YouTube, Instagram, Twitch, Facebook, TikTok, and listen wherever you get your podcasts. See Don live with D.L. Hughley on "The DL+DL Anything Goes Tour" - get tickets at DLPlusDL.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to Draft Kings Network. That made me angry. I wasn't afraid, and I'm not afraid. I'm not afraid of Donald Trump's punk ass at all. And I think most serenals need to be. I'm not afraid of him. He's a coward. He's a coward.

Hello and welcome to South Beach sessions. You know, I love talking to the journalism, journalists, and nobody finds journalists more interesting than other journalists do. Don Lemon is an icon. His story is fascinating. There's an arrest. There's firing. There's all the things that are in the fire.

And there's also excellent work. The Don Lemon Show, TikTok, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook. What am I missing, Don? YouTube. I did say YouTube. Twitch. Substack. IHeard Radio, Apple Podcast, Spotify.

A lot of places. He's free and independent. He's liberated. The Don Lemon channel is coming to you soon. And fascinating. He's touring. right now with D.L. Hugh Glee, he'll be the subject of a future South Beach sessions that I'm also excited about, but thank you for being here. I appreciate you making the time. It's a real pleasure

to meet you. Likewise. Huge fan. I was like, I've been trying forever to get on the show. Really? Well, you guys reached out and it just didn't, the scheduling didn't work out. And so, you know, I would say, they said, well, he shoots in L.A. And I said, well, whenever we're going to be in L.A., we tried to make it work there. Try to make it work in New York. And as you know, when you're I just started doing this two and a half years ago. And it's way more work than people realize. Well, that's one of the many things that I've learned here, what they say about entrepreneurship.

It's instead of 40 hours working for someone else making more money, you work 100 hours for yourself making less money. But there's great freedom in it. There's great fulfillment in it. And I've got a thousand questions for you about what your experience was like. Not exactly a softball to start, but what are the details that you? you remember about getting fired because you had three years on your contract left.

And I'm wondering how surprised you were by that. Because I know in my case when I was at ESPN, I really didn't think that my future was in danger. I thought the media was more stable than it actually was. Well, I knew something, you know, I knew that they wanted me out, right? And then they offered me to do the morning show. And I was like, I didn't want to do it. And then they offered me a big deal. And I said, okay, they really want me to move.

And so I thought maybe I would ride them out a little bit. But then when I got in there, they did things that they had promised that they wouldn't do. And then they did things that they did some other things, right? Are you purposely ambiguous there? Yeah, well, they asked me to train like the new person coming in. They didn't ask me. They told me later on. And I said, what's the deal?

And they're like, well, we want you to train her. And I'm like, that's not my job. And then so that became really contentious. And people thought that the issue was between, the issues on the set were between me and the anchors. And it was not. It was between management that had set us up and pitted us against each other. So I haven't really told that story.

You're kind of getting that. But they asked me to train one of the younger anchors there. And I said, nice enough person, but that's not my job. And I said, you know, no one trained. me as an anchor. No one brought me in and set me up and said, we're going to have someone another anchor, more senior experienced anchor train you. I said, we're starting a new show. I'm the senior anchor on the show. You guys perhaps should have told me that before you asked me to do this. And so I had some idea then, and quite frankly, when they came to me, there was a bit

of a relief. It's weird. Well, take me through some of that. So how unpleasant was it before you got to the relief? I didn't want to go. I look, for years, I loved going to going into work, I couldn't wait to get there. I couldn't wait to talk to the audience. And then that last year when that management came in from Discovery, what is it, Warner Brothers Discovery with David Zazloff and he hired Chris Licked. And it was just, it was a terrible,

he was a terrible hire. He was basically incompetent. And they put him in charge. He was way over his head. He lost the confidence of the newsroom immediately, almost immediately. And, you know, when I tried to reach out to people I knew senior folks like David, they didn't, what are you talking about? And I was like, I'm just trying to tell you it's not working out.

And eventually they did find out. But I think that the folks in the C-suite didn't want me because their views and my political views are different. I'm more of an independent. They're more conservative. You think that or you know it? Oh, I know it. I know it. I mean, look, the guy John Malone was on Fox News, excuse me, on CNBC saying,

we want, it would be great if CNN were more like Fox News. And he thought that was the place where that was a level set when they are clearly partisan and they don't even call themselves news. They say they're entertainment. So that's how I kind of knew. And look, the person who was there before the CEO who ran the company during its best times, Jeff Zucker, is my mentor and friend. And he said, he told me, they want to get you out of prime time.

So, yeah, I knew. How long did you know and how unpleasant was all the knowing? I knew before they even started. But the way that it happened, I expected them to have more respect for a human being and to respect the audience a lot more than they did. They didn't allow me to say goodbye. They said, well, you can tape a goodbye. I said, what the fuck is that?

What good is that going to do? And you don't trust me enough to tell people you're worried that I'm going to tell the truth about you. If you weren't worried, if you were treating me fairly, then you wouldn't be worried about what I'm going to say. And so he didn't even have the guts to call me to tell me, never called me into his office. Some of the folks in the studio, I would come in through one way the studio, because I'd go to the makeup room. And there was a back way that the studio crew would come in. And they said before, like a day or two before, they'd already taken my name off. I hadn't even seen it.

If you had to choose between the two feelings, and I'm sure there was both of them here, were you more hurt or angry? I really wasn't angry. I was disappointed. I didn't like my exit from CNN. I did not think it was fair. Life isn't fair. I would love to have been able to say goodbye to the audience. I would love for them not to try to ruin my reputation.

They really tried to ruin my reputation. I had reporters calling me, friends, saying, Don, the calls are coming from inside of the house. They're telling people this and that, and I know because I work there. And it's basically it was CNNPR spreading stories about me and then pretending they didn't know about it. So you know about that stuff. Well, so I know I recognize a lot of what it is that you're saying there. I guess, though, that you probably experienced much of what's happening at CBS right now before.

You recognize what's happening. Oh, my God, more than anything. Yeah. Except that I don't think CBS, perhaps, I don't think CBS is trying to ruin people's reputation. If you want to get rid of someone who had been there for almost 17 years in a primetime spot, African American, gay, openly gay, you got to, you know what I mean? You just can't say we want you to go. You got to come out with some sort of narrative, a predicate to get rid of them.

And they did that. And in our contracts, we can't respond. I can't give statements. Everything has to go through CNNPR or then you're in breach. So, you know, they got you over a barrel. I wish that I would have said something anyways, but, you know, because there's a lot of shit that went out there that's not necessarily true,

and I have to, I've had to bat it down. I don't, now, I don't know if it's as big an issue, but some of it I had to bat down just because, you know, they were allowed to get away with it. I mean, it's a dirty business. It's a, and all the people who were, basically, and the person who was head of PR at the time was fired, admitted to me.

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what do you regret not saying? That the stuff that they were saying was not true. Like there was a variety article that said that I was a misogynist and I'd done all these things. None of it was true. Not one word in that article was true. And then instead of CNN saying it's not true, after the article came out, they said,

oh, we can't corroborate this. If you really believe in your talent and it's not true, you stand by them and you say, none of this is true and these are all lies rather than the most the mildest and the and most limp, neutered, impotent response is to say, oh, we can't corroborate this. Of course, if it was true, you would corroborate it. It would be in your HR records. It's not there because it never happened. What hurt you the most? Was it that? That's the thing that hurt me the most. Look, Dan, I'm not, nothing is forever. Your job isn't forever. My life isn't forever. Your life isn't

forever. I don't expect anything to last forever. I never expected my CNN job to last forever. I did think that all the years that I dedicated to that company and didn't take vacations and you know, work 24 hours and jumped on airplanes without a bag and, you know, a shower and, and, you know, ran into dangerous places that they would just be a little bit more, have a modicum of respect. I didn't, you know, I know companies, they're not human, so to speak. I didn't expect him to kiss my butt on the way out, but at least have a little bit more respect and not try to ruined my reputation. I thought that that was pretty underhanded and disgusting. Were you scared? I'm not afraid of anything. I was scared for scared about what? Oh, just there. Your career is at a

crossroads. I don't know how much of your identity is tied up in your work. I don't know what your relationship was with your audience and being on CNN, but all of a sudden, if you're not prepared for what's next, they've thrown you off of a cliff. My identity was was never tied up in work. And it's not tied up and work now. I don't, honestly, I don't have to work. I do it because I like it. I mean, I have to work now in order to support a company. If I didn't have this company, I wouldn't have to work. Do you know what I mean? You know what I mean. You know what I mean. You have to, you know, have employees. You got to keep it on the air. Things cost. In order to be, even to be on, you know, airwaves that are supposed to be free, there's a cost to it, right? You got to, I have to pay,

you know, I have to give YouTube a revenue share of everything that I do, right? I have to pay people like, you know, salaries and health insurance. But that's what I was asking. But that's I was asking about when I said, were you scared? Because all of a sudden, the mainstream media backing is a great comfort. I wasn't scared because I hadn't even contemplated doing this. A year before I left CNN, Kara Swisher had me on her show, about a year or so before, maybe a little bit, but maybe two years. I don't remember.

And she asked me, she goes, like in 10 years, what is, what does a future, what does Don Lemon look like? And I said, I don't know, maybe it'll be a Don Lemon channel or something. Maybe it'll be whatever. And I just said that. I never really thought about it that much. So I was not scared. I'm not, the thing that I realized, the thing that I knew then, and I know it a lot more now than I did then, is that what I brought to the table and the talent that I had was never about CNN. They were just offering me a place to be able to display it.

So, you know, I'm a person who I don't have imposter syndrome. I've been in this business long enough to see the people who they want you to train or they hand opportunities to. And most of them don't look like me. And by the time you get to a position like me, having a prime time show with your name on it as a black gay person, you know what the fuck you're doing because they wouldn't put you there. Right? And it's not that they put me there. I earn my way there. So, you know, I have always known that I had a talent to do what I do.

Every single producer, executive producer I've ever had, would say, I've never worked with anyone like you. You don't need a teleprompter. You're not afraid to report. You're not afraid of breaking news. We can in the control room, figure out where we're going and breaking news because you're out there tap dancing. And people have no idea. And I can write. And even I can produce my own shows, which I do now.

I self-produced now. So I never, I was not afraid of not being able to find a job in media, but I just didn't, I, for what reason would I go to work for MSNBC or Fox or ABC or CEO? Like, why would I want to do that? So I was not sure what I was going to do. But the only thing was just like, I just thought it was very unfair the way that they treated me. But I was never scared of anything. I'm not scared. I'm surprised to hear you say that, though.

I'm not scared. And you know what? Very early on I spoke with someone who is a mentor and kind of a spiritual advisor person and they said, Don, the universe or God, I happen to be a believer in God, I'm a Christian. God or the universe has gotten you this far and has taken care of you all of your life for 50-some years. What makes you think that that entity or those entities are going to let you down now? And I said, nothing. I have no proof.

The proof is the other way around. And then ever since then, I was never afraid. So I don't lack for confidence in being able to do the things that I do, but I was scared. You were. Yes. Just because I had done things in the comfort and safety that aren't quite as hard as all of the things that you had to overcome. And my employers had always treated me respectfully. And I was surprised that all of a sudden I would have to do it all myself.

I had to get pissed off and get to the point of like, all right, fuck it. I'll do it myself only because I was done with abiding the principles of others instead of my own. But I was forced to do that. I didn't choose it. And I couldn't have imagined any of what came after it because I had never thought about any of what would come after it. Because I had never considered the possibility that I would have to do it for myself. That's fair. And I can relate to that.

It's tough. I'm not saying that it's easy. I'm not saying now I don't have. Do I really have fear now? No, I just... Pardon me. That was a good one. It's the nice sparkling water that you have a lot.

That would never happen to you on CNN. My guess is that that never happened to you in all of your time. Oh, yes, it did. Oh my gosh, I burped on the air. I cried on the air. I would laugh and go on the air. I would have stuff fly out of my mouth on the air. I had just about everything.

I used to do two hours, at least five nights a week. That was live. That was a lot. So, you know, you're going to, I'm sure I had to shit in my teeth and a booger or something at some point. But the thing is, you're right, is that you had 18 people watching on a monitor and they would say, oh, your tie is slightly off center. I don't have that now, you know. So I can relate to what you're saying because I had to take my career into my own hands or whatever I wanted to do next into my own hands, where before it was just, okay, talk to my agent, all right? a book deal, you're going to do this or your contracts up.

They're offering this amount of time, this many years. Here are the ratings bonuses. These are the other things that work. And that was it, right? And that was, you know, you can talk to your agent maybe twice a year or once a year if you really. But not this. But I'll tell you the thing that the difference is that, Dan, is that I always had to

fight for everything. I always had to fight and say, you know, well, why am I, why am I, stuck on the weekends when my ratings are better than people why am I stuck on the weekends when I walk out with some of the main folks who are in prime time and no one is saying hello to them they're all coming up to me saying hey don lemon I was like so why is that why is this happening and not until jeff Zucker came to CNN that I felt that someone respected my talent and got me he's and immediately moved me from Atlanta to new to New York but even then I still had to fight for things So I think in that fight, I developed a confidence that I could take the ability into my own hands.

Because I had to then. I had to fight management for positions and opportunities for my entire career. The insulting thing is when people said, oh, you know, he's a diversity hire or an affirmative action hire. or when I first came to CNN, I think it was in my 30s, maybe early 40s, yeah, 30s, late, no, 40s when I got to CNN. And people were like, look at that. They hired that young black guys. They have this kid and his 20s doing this.

I looked young. But by that time, I had been seven, eight markets around the country honing my craft. So I never had that. I wasn't afraid. No, it's cool. It's a cool confidence to hear. And it's also interesting to hear how it's formed. Yeah, black and gay, you're going to have to fight for everything.

So, especially in this industry, if I were talking to your husband, Tim, right now, and I was asking him how high on the list in terms of the things that Don is and that you love about him is fighter. Yeah. Do you want to call him? I'm curious what your perspective is on how high up he would say? Like just parts of your identity, like what he would identify and what you would identify on things that you're proud of that you are, I would imagine would be pretty high on the list. I think it's high on the list.

I don't know how high it would be. I think it would be pretty near the top of it. Because he, and my birthday this year was one of the big ones, right? I turned 60. And he wrote this really incredible social media post about me. I think it was a social media post where he said, you know, they...

Hmm. Yeah. I don't want to get emotional. But he just talked about everything that I fought and built and people trying to take my voice and my platform. And he said, you built something bigger. And I did. I have more connected and I have more fans

and I believe a bigger audience than when I was on CNN. And I know people think that's weird, but you had to find me on CNN. You had to tune in to me at a sort of. and you had to, oh, Don is on at 10 o'clock at night. Let me turn it. Now, you open up your thing and say, oh, there's Don. There's a video from him.

Every day, when I came up with your producer who came to get me in the lobby, oh my God, I watch you every day. Can I get a picture? Every single day, everywhere I go. That happened on CNN, but not to the degree it happens now. Why don't you want to get emotional when talking about love, talking about being proud of yourself? Because I cry. I am a very emotional person.

I cry if you look at me. I'm just, people wouldn't think that. If you watch me on Fox News, you would think I'm like an evil, you know, I'm like, what is it, what is it, Voldemore or whatever? You would think I'm just like this evil mean toxic person. No, just earned armor. Yeah, but I love my husband very much.

And he's my biggest supporter. So when we talk about him, I get emotion. My wife says she never finds me more attractive than when I'm crying. And as a former caveman, Cuban, raised by a Cuban man and Cuban grandparents. Oh, you're a Cuban. Can you explain some things to me? Not about, if you're going to ask me about the politics of Cubans, I'm not going to be able to explain it to you.

Yeah, maybe in a bit. No, but I get emotional. I don't know if you saw it when I was arrested. Yes. With my husband. They were calling him Kevin Costner because he was pissed. And I walk out smiling because I'm nice to everyone. I'm like, I have the biggest heart.

I'm forgiving. I don't forget. But I'm forgiving. He's not. He carries every grudge for me. Oh, my. Valerie would disembowel somebody on my behalf. Someone who, you know, who he believes betrayed me, like someone from CNN.

We'll be walking and he'll see like someone and he'll be like, let's go this way. Or they'll say hello and he'll go, or they'll come and talk to me and he'll say, no, I'm sorry, can't talk. He carries my grudges for me and he's my biggest protector. He's like, yeah, fuck that guy. That guy talks shit about you. You don't want to talk to him.

And he'll tell them too. Like someone, we went to, right after I got fire, we went to the Time 100 and one of my, someone who had been involved in pretending like, oh, am I going to go talk to him? And he said, no, get away. I was like, wow. And when I walked out of jail, same thing. He literally carried me to the podium to the microphones and said,

you stand here and say your peace. Fuck these people. That's lovely. Yeah. You find out what and who people are during the times when you're weakest and whether they can be trusted with your vulnerability. and to me that's the greatest growth to find in love that you can give the treasure chest of your vulnerabilities

over to somebody and they will protect them. They will never weaponize them against you. Thank you. That's why I don't get the whole thing about who someone can love. Like, you know, oh, gay people shouldn't be allowed to get married or it's a sin and we shouldn't allow that in our society. Do you know what? most of the people who are in my life who are more happily married, and I have friends of all

different, you know, gay, straight, Cuban, from all different ethnicities, all different, whatever, the gay people are happy, have happier marriages and longer lasting marriages than my heterosexual friends. And it's just, I mean, that's, and I'm not saying that that's scientific, that's my unscientific survey. I, maybe it's just the caliber of friends that I have, or I happen to I have a great friend group. I have friends now who are trying to, you know, at the surrogacy, they're wanting to have a kid. I have, you know, at least seven, eight people, couples in my friend group have kids. Married forever, been together 20, 30 years.

Kids go to great schools. Education is a premium. And so I don't understand when people try to legislate who you can love. The heart wants what the heart wants, just as you as a heterosexual fell in love with your wife or whatever. So me as a gay man, I fell in love with my husband. And if someone is, if we're together, if we're with each other together or in a loving, you know, compassionate relationship, understanding relationship, then what is what business is of yours? There's no business of yours. You should be happy.

I'll offer you a theory as to if that is indeed true that gay folks are happily or more happily married than others. it's because you've had to fight for your love and who you are all along the way, and the commonalities end up connecting you. Because I imagine, I don't know when you became most comfortable with being gay, but I imagine there was almost always a fight on where and how you had to hide that somewhere at the very beginning. I had to hide it for a long time. And even after I came out, it was tough to express it publicly because it was difficult. Because you're so used to not being able to hold hands and not talk about your,

partner or instead of using he or she you say them or they right well who you got what's going on oh well you know they just call me and you just you just don't do it um but i i've been out in my public life for a while in my private life for a while and then publicly i came out in 2011 which was before any main major news anchor came out before most of them came out the only person who was out was rachel maddow and she was she wasn't the rachel maddo she is now um And back then, I don't even know if Rachel considered herself a journalist or what she does now, and that's no slight, I love Rachel. I don't know if she considers herself a, you know, whatever. You know, if she's an activist or whatever, I would say she's a journalist.

But that was about it. Nobody was out. And I thought I was like, I could lose my livelihood. Now, then I was afraid because that's something really that I can't control. No, you've got to trust the machine to not be hateful. And so I was worried about that. But someone asked me to write a book about my travels, my travails, travels, and journeys in journalism. And, you know, it was sort of a biography of sorts.

And I got to the point where I left Louisiana and I moved to New York and I was like, oh, how am I going to write this? And then I said, you know what? I can't be a hypocrite. I can't just, you know, have the standards where I want people on the air who I interview or whatever the subject is to be honest and candid. And I'm not going to be the same thing. I have to have the same standards for myself as I have for everybody else. And I said, all right, fuck it.

I'll just tell them that I moved to New York because I was one reason I was gay. I wanted to be who I was. And also my journalism professor told me I would never make it as a journalist. And if I wanted to be who I was professionally and personally, I had to get out of there. Walk me through the most relevant details for a stranger that you would offer if you were talking about what it was like to grow up as you in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. The most, you said the most relevant detail? Details. Details.

Just walk me, walk me through what your childhood looked like, what Baton Rouge, Louisiana was, what your life was. Because before high school, before school president, you don't have a ton of friends, right? And so what did your life look like until you get to class president of high school? Oh, okay. So look, I was always, look, I was a popular kid, but I went to a private Catholic school. I went to an all-black Catholic school that if your family had any kind of means back then you were an African-American family, people sent their kids to St. Francis Xavier. year. My, I think my aunt had gone there, but this is before it became a thing. And after that, after, this is like, I think she went there in like the 50s or something. But I went to this all black Catholic school. I went to school with all black people, you know, all with family of means. It's Louisiana. So there was a lot of colorism. There were light skin black kids and the dark skin black kids. And then there were the black kids that had the good hair. And then the black kids that had the good hair. And then the black kids that had. had the bad hair or whatever.

And so, and we wore uniforms and all that. But growing up, and it was, I mean, it was kind of, it was to say like Huck Finn. It was a southern, um, idyllic, you, idyllic childhood for a person living in the South, barefoot running around the summer, hot. I'm Generation X, so we were feral. We'd leave in the morning and come back in the,

maybe for lunch, if not. We'd find lunch somewhere else, somebody else's mom would do something or we'd have money to go buy stuff. And then the streetlights came on, you go home. And so that's how you spent your summers. But I always had the secret. I knew I was gay from since I could remember. I've known. I didn't know what it meant.

And early on, it wasn't like a sexual thing, right? But I've known. I've been quite aware. And then as a kid, my innocence was taken from me early. You volunteered that on. television. Out of nowhere, you just sort of, well, I shouldn't say out of nowhere in a report about, that, that was adjacent, you volunteered that you were molested at what age? Got it probably five, six years old. The reason that I, I think the, a big part of the

reason that I've, and I've been, I've had the success that I've had is because of authenticity and transparency. And I don't believe that I'm any different than the subject that I'm discussing and I think sunlight is the best disinfectant. And that's what journalism is about. It should be at least. And so I just happened to, I'm just, I'm the same person on the air as off the air. When I leave this microphone, as you know, I'm doing the same thing when we were talking. I don't change. I'm just, I'll veer off a little bit. I don't change and that has also been part of my success. It made me, it made it easier for me because most people will get, oh, hello, good evening. welcome to the program.

I'm just blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then if they mess up, they got to get, you know, you got to get back into character. I never have to get back into character. If I screw up, I go, oh, scratch that. Sorry, what I meant to say was, and it's not like I'm not. So I think that's been part of my success. So I was interviewing some kids, some young folks who had been at a church,

and I forget who the pastor was. It was years ago in the suburbs of Atlanta. And he had been accused of, doing, you know, naughty untoward things to younger people who were part of his church. And one of the young people said, oh, pastor isn't a molester or isn't a, I forget the exact terminology. And I said, you don't know that. And they looked at me. And I said, you don't know that. I said, because, and they said, well, how do you know or something? And I said, because I was molested as a kid. I said, no one is wearing an M for molester on their forehead or an A for

abuse are on their forehead and it's usually the person you least expect. And I said, so I'm not saying that he is or isn't, but you don't know that. And you could, first of all, they gasped and then you could hear a pin drop. And then I went, oh, shit, what did I just say? And the producers were like, okay. And as soon as I got off the air, my boss called and said, wow, that was a lot. I don't think she knew how to deal with it. No one knew how to deal with it then.

I think they were afraid. And, man, that caused a stir, but there were so many people who reached out to me after that and said, and call the station, email the station. This was pre-social media. And they were like, wow, I'm so glad that you admitted that and talked about it. And that gave me more of a sense of autonomy. me and just a confidence that power over it. Power over it, but it's okay to be me. I don't have to pretend.

I don't have to be a character. I would say unusual for that to be something that you say on air without any thought, like without any preparation, without any, you were just so in the moment and so and being authentic is such a personal thing that you're obviously proud of that to say to share that with your audience without any thought seems really brave. Let me see. Let me jump in and say this to you because it's a compliment to you. This is one of the reasons that I've always liked and admired you is because we said it, you said Don when we walked in. You just be yourself, have a conversation. That's the same thing. When I'm in, I'm having

conversation with people. I'm not, I never interview people. When people interview people and they're like, I may have notes. Sometimes I get to them. Sometimes I don't. You have notes, but I mean, you've looked at them maybe once, right? So, because you want to remember things that you want to get to. I have notes because I want to remember a subject I want to get to. I'm not because I want to veer a conversation in a certain way. And so I'm having conversations just like you're having conversations. And that is when you do that, you're in the moment. It's the same thing. There's no difference from me and you talking here the way that I talk to my buddy, my mom on the phone. I call my mom and said, hey, Cat, what's you doing? Good to talk to you. What's happening? Same thing. And I think people are drawn to that rather

than I see people who are in journalism and it's like they're in an interrogation room. Well, there's an affect as opposed to just being a human being. There's a veneer. But you know what? I get more out of people by having a conversation with them, and people will tell me, I didn't appreciate that softball interview. And I'd say to them, what did you want me to ask? Well, you didn't ask him about his,

about, I'm just bringing up something, about why he gets money from A-PAC or whatever. And I'll say, did you watch the interview? Because I certainly do. And then they said, yeah, but you were too nice to him. I said, well, what do you want me to do? Beat him up over the head. I said, I asked the same question,

but I did it with a smile instead of like this. Why do you get the A-Ball? A PAC money. I say, you know, there's been, you know the criticism, and I have to tell you, the criticism that you get from accepting APEC money, people wonder why you do it and are you going to continue to do it? It's the same question. But people don't get it. And that's how people talk in a conversation. It's not an interrogation. So I just feel comfortable. And I felt at home, I feel at home sitting here, sitting in front of a camera, I am very much at home because I've been, you know, it's my past. And just because I don't have to be a character. And at every point where I just was more of myself and for the things that people are afraid to do, to reveal themselves to the public, every time I leaned into that, it gave me,

it was successful and it gave me more of a sense of autonomy. Yeah, so that's cool. You get rewarded for it, and that's where your real confidence comes from. Yeah, it does. until CNN is like, that's enough of, you know, we don't want you to be. Well, but it's still been rewarded, though, because CNN, so I want to get to just the liberation of all this, but when you say idyllic childhood largely until you have your innocence stolen, how did it change you to when you say my innocence was stolen, you get changed from right there?

Well, you're not as naive. I'm not a child anymore. Once that happens, you're not a child anymore. once that happens, you're not a child anymore. I mean, you may be age-wise, physically, but not mentally, not psychologically. And Dan, I can spot, I have to stay in the microphone, I can spot a fraudster, a bullshitter from a mile away. There's something in an instant sort of maturity that you get in a sense about who people are. because I realized not everybody's looking out for me. Not everybody's going to be kind to me.

There are people who are looking to take advantage of me. There are people who are pretending to be something that they're not or someone else. There are people who have secrets. We all have secrets. We all have, you know, those kinds of things. But I can, I'm such a great judge of character. I, you know, I get a feeling about people I'm going to hire immediately.

Like there are people in my company now say, oh, this person's great. And I interview them. I'm like, okay, let me see that. Who's that person? I don't have that barometer at all. I do. It seems like it's, but it makes it. Yeah.

It gives you instantaneously a distrustful relationship with the world, right? But I, but you, it was some people hone it. And again, it's the same thing. It was forced upon me. And so, you know, that's why I don't, that's why I don't regret anything or certain things like, look, of course I wish that didn't happen to me as a kid. but it made me who I am. It made me a much stronger, confident person to be able to not only read a room, but to read people.

And trust your instincts. And trust my instincts. I mean, what a gift that is just to generally have. I trust my instincts. I'm going to be right. And the universe or God or life is going to reciprocate the things that I have learned. That's all right. I just, oh, I had to hold the cough button.

That's okay. Real amateur over there. You didn't touch the cough button. I touched it. I thought it would hold. I think you made it louder. I think you made it louder so you can blow your nose louder. I thought I made it hold.

It's supposed to work like this and I don't say anything. And that is back. But I hold. I didn't hold it. You're out of the game for too long with other people handling this stuff for you. I never had a cough button. I never had a cough button. Can you believe that?

I never had, I can, someone else had to turn my mic off. So I would wait until they took the camera off of me or they would. I'd go to a VO and I would go, or like this, cut my mic. Yeah, and then I would say, what the fuck happened? Where was that? And then I'd go, okay, I'm good. And then they put the mic back on and bring me back on. But yeah, I never had a cough button.

That's kind of cool. What are all these buttons anyways? You seem to be fascinated by our studios in general because you're just, you must feel a bit inspired, liberated, and that you're doing a whole lot of learning that you might not have been doing at CNN. You're smart. I learn everything. Everywhere I go is a learning experience.

Every place I go. I say, oh, what are they doing here? I notice it you light everything. Your whole place is lit. That's what I want to do. That's what I'm trying to do. I have a home studio now. So Tim said, when the guys came over to install the studio in New York City,

our New York City apartment, he goes, yeah, one of the cameras in the shower coming. because I have it my kitchen is lit the living room's lit the dining room's lit my studio's in the dining room so my dining room is like this and then over here is my kitchen and then on the other side is my living room and it's all lit well what you're doing now I haven't used it quite easy yet but what you're doing right now is so much more personal so much more intimate so much more you you said more money you said less money I if it continues to grow I will make more money than I made in mainstream media it but I'm working harder. I don't know if it will happen. It won't happen this year or next year maybe. Who knows? Who knows? I shouldn't put that out there. It'll happen. Something good is going to happen. I just said of entrepreneurship, not you in particular, that the thing they don't tell you is that instead of working 40 hours for someone else for more money, you're going to work 100 hours for yourself

for less money. The beginning of that has to be so. It may not be so in the future, but that is the, that is the protection that the mainstream offers you in terms of comfort is, here's this salary, you don't have to worry about anything else, but you're not going to get 100% of the profits on your talent. You're going to get about 14% of the profit on your talent if everything's fair. And you have to play by our rules. Right.

Someone else is in charge on how it is that you're presented to the public. How liberating has it been and how long did it take before it felt liberating? God, almost immediately, it felt almost immediately. Now that part, you know what, that part may be a little bit scary because you know, because you can do, it can be whatever you want, which is a good part. And the bad part is that it can be whatever you want to be. Yeah, you know, so. But I don't know how long you were unhappy for, right?

So that would be a part of the formula on how you get to liberate it. If you were drudging, if you were trudging to work after going to work, every day for a lifetime enjoying going to work. That's where I was. I'm going to say the last 12 or 18 months. Six months, the last six months for me. But a bit of a dread before that, it's immediately, almost immediately,

when Warner Brothers took over, and then I realized, and they started firing people and getting rid of shows, and then getting rid of CNN Plus, and then they brought, they're bringing it basically the same thing back now. It's like, that's when I started like, oh God, I felt it was the beginning of the end. And then when I stopped watching CNN, when I cut the cord and I stopped watching CNN and I started watching YouTube, I couldn't even watch my own network.

I knew it was time. I knew I knew something had to give. When did that happen? Well, you were still there? Because that also happened to me. That happened to me where I just, I didn't, it wasn't even, I wasn't not watching because I was angry or anything. I just wasn't interested. Yeah, same thing.

I'm not interested. And I wasn't interested. I started seeing us go into the false equivalence. realm. You say something, if you criticize a Republican, then you have to criticize a Democrat. Don't, you know, allowing room for insurrection deniers and election deniers. Right. You have to give both sides in the name of objectivity, even though at this point we are choose-aside time, because we're not doing it fairly anymore. And that's not real. And that is actually not objectivity.

Objectivity is having discernment about, you know, what is objective fact, not objective fakery. The facts are, that's a lie. The facts are there was an insurrection. The facts are of 60 courts, including the, you know, the Supreme Court said that the election was not fraudulent. So why are we bringing people on continuously to continually say that over and over and over and over again when we know it's a lie. Why are we doing that? Because you want to have some fake

objectivity or because you want to, you want to appease the people in the C-suit who would like that to be the case because that's their particular ideology. So I couldn't watch. And I would watch some of my colleagues and go, oh my God, what happened? And if you watch at night, I would I would challenge Chris and our handoffs about things. But those conversations were conversations then that journalists are supposed to have. But once WBD took over, it became something else. It became, you know, flat out, we got to make room for Republicans, they told me. We have to.

And I said, and when I knew, I think this was like the last week I was there, last weekend, I was there just before the weekend. It was. I knew that something had to give because I asked them, what is our policy on election deniers and insurrection deniers? And they said, we don't have one. And I said, okay, that's a problem. But the last week I was there, I believe, for my recollection, yeah, it was the only time I ever got called to the principal's office

is when I interviewed on the morning show, Vivek Ramoswami. And I basically called out his lies about the Civil War and Black people in BNRA. And I guess they thought I was going to give him a pass. Every single person called me and said, Don, you did nothing wrong in that interview. He's an idiot. He's lying. And you can't let that happen on a show on CNN and on your show. But they wanted it to happen.

So it wasn't even my interview. It was my co-anchors interview. And she said, you want to jump in? I was like, no, really. It was just like, I think if we have these conversations and we have to, you know, tell the truth about him. And he goes, you are telling the truth. And I said, no, you're not.

And so then we got into it. But I wasn't really, I was prepared for it. But had I, you know, had it been my interview, I would have notes and all that stuff didn't happen. Because I didn't even know who he was. Never heard of him. Didn't know who he was. So I got called to the principal's office after that

because they didn't like it, that I held his feet to the fire. Between, I think the senior producer on the show and then the executive producer on the show. I was like, what do you, and actually I recorded the conversation, CNN. Did you really? Of course I did. I have other conversations that I recorded with Chris Lick, where he told me the two co-anchors on the show can't lead a show. That's why you're on the show.

And I said, I would love it. And I said, why did you hire them? Where are those recorded? There's some good shit on those recorded. I have them. I had two iPhones. One was my phone and one was one I recorded. Okay, so you are super distrustful then, right?

Like you're... When I was, because they were distrustful. I never told them that, but I know. You know, and honestly, you know, I had three and a half years left. I didn't want them to fuck with my money. And so, you know, when that's done, when my deal is up, we'll see what happens with some of that shit that I have. So I got called to the principal's office, and they weren't happy with me. That weekend, after that happened, they hastily put together this announcement that Charles

Barkley and Gail King were going to do a show in the evening on CNN. I went into work on Monday that morning, and then after I left the show, I got a call for my agent. And I was like, oh, now I see why you put together that stupid announcement with Gail and Charles, both of whom I like, but I knew it was not going to work. I mean, come on. Stevie Wonder could see that. And so they put that together because they were firing the only black anchor they had in prime time. So they had to do something.

And I was actually surprised at Gail and I was surprised at Gail and Charles took the job. Or at least allowed that to happen. Maybe they didn't know that it was going on. But afterwards, after that had happened to me, after they fired it. the person, I would have some major questions and I'd go back and I would say, I can't do this. But, you know, people do what they have to do. What did you learn and why did you choose to learn about your ancestry? Well, one thing about my, one, my ancestry that was part of, you mean when I went to Africa

and all that stuff? Well, I was thinking more about the fact that you know that some members of your family have been sold for $1,800. dollars and you just went through, you decided to check through your family history. So I went to, part of this is a series like tracing your roots or something for CNN that I did. I think it was around 2014. It was like right when I was pretty early on when I came, became the prime time acre. And I went to Africa with my mom and we just go, you know, went to the through the door of no return at the Cape Coast Castle where they, you know, the slaves. left to go to America where they boarded the slave ships.

And I traced my roots, you know, lots of digging around Louisiana. And so that was that. That was, you know, interesting. And then Skip Gates called from Harvard. And, you know, he has this show, The Finding Your Roots on PBS. And it's a very popular show. And I think they asked me to do it. I think they have to ask you to do it.

And that experience was life altering. So, you know, I wanted to do it because we can only go back so far with records and tracing. And the only reason that I got to go back as far as I did is because I have white ancestry. And so there were records of that that they could trace back to, you know, certain things on a certain side of that. on a certain side of my family. They went back really far because I have white ancestors. But I learned that my great-great or whatever it is,

grandmother and her family or kids were sold for $1,800. And I said, on that program, I said, I'm going to name, I think I said I'm going to name my production company that or something. And then years later, that's what I named it. Life altering how? Life altering in that, same thing in the beginning of our conversation about fear, that makes me fearless. I come from a family and an ancestry of survivors, people who had to make their own way,

who had to create their own opportunities and create their own abundance. And so it just solidified that I'm always going to be okay. I was like, ah, I knew this. I knew this, but I didn't know it. You know what I mean? And then, you know, they even found out things that my father had done that I didn't know, that my dad helped to rewrite the laws in Louisiana for public transportation for people of color. I didn't know that.

And one of the biggest cases. And so the black people can, you know, were able to ride public transportation because of my dad. So. You seem to be really proud of your fearlessness. And I admire it and I respect it. But I also think that fearless. I'm overconfident.

Well, I didn't say that. That fearlessness isn't necessarily human. And I don't think I'd even identify you from over here as fearless. I think you're courageous. It's not the absence of fear. It's the ability to overcome that fear. Yes, yes. Yes.

And so 100% correct. It's not that, it's just that I, I just move through that. Look, I'm not going to, you know, I know if I stand on the side of a building and it's 18 stories up, like that's scary, right? I'm not going to do that. I'm in fear of that. But maybe it's, yeah, it's the, it's courage, not that there's, not that I'm not fearful of, I don't know. I actually don't really know how to define that. because I don't know it's like it's like the Dr. King says I'm not fearing any man my

my eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord I live that and so maybe it's just that I have you know the courage to to move through the fear maybe that's just it were you were you afraid when you were being arrested like the government being weaponized against That made me angry. I wasn't afraid. And I'm not afraid. I'm not afraid of Donald Trump's punk ass at all. And I think most certainly needs to be.

I'm not afraid of him. He's a coward. He's a coward. Now, it made me angry that someone could take my freedom just for doing something that I know is not wrong, right? Or just because they want to. And I believe that this would not have even happened if a Don Lemon wasn't.

there, right? That the, I believe the events would have happened, but I mean, it would not have been what it is now, right? Maybe that they would have gotten, I don't know if anything would have happened because we left the church, the police were outside, nothing happened. I walked by and said hello.

So I think when they found out when it was live stream, and they said, oh, it's Don Lemon. Ha ha, da, dun, dun, the maga folks will go crazy. the president will love this, I'm going to do it. I don't think Donald Trump even knew. I think it was someone in the Justice Department who thought that they could get, Curry some sort of favor with Donald Trump if they got someone that he didn't like. Yeah.

And what was your angriest in then? Give me, like, was it, was it? I was angry because as an American citizen, right, who abides by the Constitution, that our government is not doing that. And our government is making shit up about people. And the reason I was there reporting on it is because our government was treating people poorly. That they were violating people's rights to their due process rights. And due process is afforded to every person.

It doesn't say American citizen. It says every person. And so whether it's someone who is an immigrant, a migrant, if they're here documented or not, they have rights under the United States Constitution. But the Trump administration or the Trump regime, as I call it, are not abiding by that. They're dragging people out of, you know, pick up lines from school. They're pulling people off of, you know, soccer fields and off of their work sites, people who are just trying to earn a living. It's disgusting. So when were you angriest though? In handcuffs, in jail? Like where were you seething the most?

I don't know if it was ever seething because I have it. I talked to Trevor Noah about this. When things are happening, when there's a crisis or chaos or some emergency, I get very calm. And so when it started happening, at first I thought I was being mugged. And then I asked for a warrant and they didn't have one. And then they had to go get an FBI agent who went on his phone and a picture of one. And I was like, okay. whatever. So that part, the thing that made me angry is when I read the indictment and the lies that they put in the indictment and the way that they wrote it, like, oh, that I barged into a church or invaded a church.

It's like, I didn't invade anything. The protesters were there. The protesters were going to happen whether I was there or not. And so when they started their thing, I was like, okay, it's a news story. But just the things that they wrote in the indictment was like, and some of the things that were said there was by people who were supposed to be in authority or people of God, I was like, wait a minute. These people are lying or if this is indeed what they said.

So I don't know what to believe. There is no, what do you call it? Something of regularity, right? where it is a belief that the government or whoever is presenting these cases, they're going to act in a regular, normal way that abides by the law, the presumption of regularity. There's no presumption of regularity with the Trump administration. And so that part made me angry because in order for them to get an arrest warrant for me,

they had to go through a judge who denied it, a magistrate judge, and they went through another judge who denied it like a circuit court judge. or something or a district judge. And then they went to the Eighth Circuit or something, and they denied it. They went three or four different places. And so then they assembled a grand jury. And the grand jury process is so secretive

that basically prosecutors or anyone involved, you can say whatever they want to present the case whether it's true or not. And so that presumption of regularity that we take for granted is that the government is going to not do those things. but as we have found out with the Trump administration, they violated that.

Cases have to be dropped. And so that was the part that made me angry. As you're angry, though, are you doing any inventory about this is so good for me right now? No. All of this is going to end up banking me more popular than I've ever been. No, no. And people say that. Look, that is true.

I'm not stupid, right? I'm not stupid because I know that controversy sells in the media, but why would why would I want that to happen? First of all, it's an expensive undertaking, right? And here I am a small business owner, and you're a small business owner. You know, it's tax season, by the way, Dan. No, I know.

I know. I know some of the things you're saying, although I don't generally fear arrest. Yeah. But I do. The first day that we left the ESPN, I had to pay for security in a way that was way more expensive than I thought just because it was right around the interruption.

Like, I felt actively unsafe. Yeah. And you got to pay for security? Listen, I should tell folks that he's touring with DL Hugely, and it's a really inspired combination of people. I don't know exactly what you're doing. I know that you can get tickets at DLplusDL.com. Or it easier, you can go to DL PlusDL.com, but the easiest way to do it is go to Donlemon.com. And when you go to do this every day, and when you go to Don Lemon.com, the black bar will pop up,

and you click on that black rectangular and it'll take you where you can get tickets. I can't believe you're 60. Can't believe it. Oh, yeah. I, yeah. Guy, let me tell you a secret. Black don't crack.

Well, sort of. You're Cuban. You have melanin. Melanin is good. It is weight. Stay skinny. If you don't gain weight. No, I'm sorry.

I blew it on that one. I've been there, but I'm so rude by you. That was rude. What? We've had a lovely. Now we're here together. Yeah, but you just said, look, Dan, the reason that in 57, you look older than me at 60 is because you're fat. It was the undercurrent on everything that you were doing there.

I'm going to ask the producers. Did I say that? I heard it. I heard it. It was my insecurity talking. Maybe it was my insecurity. I'm also hungry, so I might have been my stomach growling, but I heard it. Yeah.

But you know, I eat anything I want. Oh, you asshole. No, I just don't eat a lot of it. Like, I asked for chips. Did you see it? And I ate like maybe a third of the bag. and I just put it, it's sitting on the counter. If I go back in your kitchen and it's there,

maybe I'll eat a few or maybe I'll toss it. And then I've had my fix for chips. If I want to get McDonald's, I'll go and get like a McDonald's or whatever. I'll get like a quarter pounder and I cut it in half. Or I'll get like a burger and I eat that and some of the fries. And it satiates me for, oh, that McDonald's thing. And then I'm done. But as long as you, it's all about portion control.

I don't need lectures from you on this. You can say, F you, Donald. Although I do appreciate your advice. Mind me why and how this came to be with D.L. Hughley. D.L. Hughley and I've known each other for a long time. He had a show on CNN. I don't know if you remember that. God, 20 years ago.

And it was a comedy show that was on weekend nights. And anyway, some of the humor was it. Pardon me, I should use a call button. Some of the humor, I mean, it was funny, but people were not ready for that for CNN. And so he got lots of criticism for it, but, you know, it was a funny show. And so I knew him then. And then I started reporting around, you know, black people being shot by police.

Remember Michael Brown and Ferguson or whatever. And I think he misunderstood some of the things that I was saying. Like when I would report, you know, this is what the Justice Department said. This is what police said, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And everyone was like, that didn't happen. I don't trust the Justice Department. And I'm like, okay, I'm a journalist. I tell you what they say.

And then so he didn't like some of the things that I was saying on CNN. And then he became very critical of me. And I didn't necessarily realize it until other people would say, because I didn't, you know, I'm not a radio person. I didn't listen to radio like that, at least not terrestrial radio.

I listened to Sirius X-M. I used to listen to Howard because I had to drive to work in Atlanta and, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. So he was not very friendly towards me. Now, he'll say we didn't like each other, but he didn't like me. I didn't feel any kind of way. I wasn't a fan of his show when it was on CNN because he took part of my hour. And I was like, oh, fuck that guy.

And then his Jasmine, his producer on his show would say to him, you know, you need to talk to Donna. I think you have him wrong. I think that you judged him and you don't realize what is happening and what he's doing. And my mom would say, you know what, I like that deal, Hughley, you guys should talk. So I had my mom telling me that, and then he had Jasmine, his producer telling him the same thing.

And I think he called me out of the blue, and we started talking. And he has a kid who's part of the LGBTQ community. I think that was also part of the thing that broke the ice, and he needed a little bit of advice on something. He also, oh, he called me because he said, said, I think I judged you or misjudge you. I really love what you're doing on CNN now.

And then we became friends. But what was he objecting to? Like what? I think he thought like I was being too, maybe there was some false equivalence there that I was hedging, that I was relying too much on what authorities said. And perhaps he was right. I had a very similar conversation with Spike Lee. and when people you respect tell you those things,

I take it to heart. And if there's some self-correction that I need to do, I will do it. And they were right. I'm the first person to admit that. I'm not like Stephen A. Smith. He's going to, oh, the NABJ is wrong and this is what I do and I love black people and I've been doing this.

No, no, no, no. If you have black women telling you, I don't like the way you're speaking about black women then you need to check yourself. You don't defend yourself and you don't obfuscate and you don't deflect. Sometimes you have to have a moment

or moments of humility where you stand back and you go, okay, perhaps there's some self-correction that needs to go on here. I don't think Stephen A. does that and I don't think he's capable of it, but Don Lemon is. And they were both right.

And black women who tell me the same thing, I think they're right too and I allow them that And that's okay. There's no, it's no skin off my back to acknowledge that. As a matter of fact, I think people like it.

I think it makes people like you more if you do something. The part that's tricky though, and this is not my area to be qualified in, but black people telling you to be blacker can be something that anyone gets defensive about. Yeah. I don't think that they're, I don't think black people are telling Stephen A to be blacker.

I think they're just telling him, Stephen A, you have a big platform. You're talking about black people, about black women with a tone that's not acceptable. I think they're telling him to basically watch your tone, which I had before. Like my mom tells me if I say something, like, mom, she'll go watch your tone. I'm the mama. And she's 100% right. I had to do that with one of my employees. I was like, you may be right, whatever, you may be smart.

But when you're talking to me, number one, I can be your grandfather. And number two, I'm your boss. Watch your tone. Same thing. And especially for someone like me and Stephen A. Smith, who black women have been carrying on their shoulders for centuries, watch your tone. Well, D.L. hates Stephen A. Smith.

Like, that feels like hatred to me. Yeah. I can't. You'll have to ask D.L., but I don't think that he has affinity for Stephen A. Smith. The Don Lemon Show, what are you most excited about? what you're doing these days. Did I get to talk to people like you? That can't be true.

In a candid way. That's part of it. I don't know if they would allow me to do the sense. You know, they had to approve every personal experience, personal appearance. They had to approve it. And so they may, I don't know because that guy showed him. I don't know if you should go on. No, no, no.

Standards and practices didn't approve that. No, whatever. Or the thing that they would use is like, oh, you're bigger than that. That's the thing when they didn't want you to talk to people. they would say, you know, that's, you don't want to do that. So what do I, I love, every day I wake up, Dan, and I say something good is going to happen to me today. And I repeat that in the shower. Something good is going to happen to me today.

Something good is going to happen to me today. And inevitably, it does. And I can take the day in whatever direction I want it to be. Some days are hard. Some days are easy. Yesterday, I could not find a guest who was available when I needed them to save my life. You know, I had an employee that was like, you know, I want to go and do something else. I'm like, okay, you know, all in the same day, you have these things that happen.

And yet and still, I believe something good is going to happen and that the universe is clearing the way for something else for me and that individual or whatever it is. And so I don't look at things anymore as this is bad, this is whatever. This is just part of the day. So this is the most free you ever felt, right? It's the most free I've ever, the most freedom I've had, I get to do what I'm doing with D.L. Hugley, every single day I get to get on the air and talk about whatever it is that I want to talk about without fear or favor. That's what gets me excited. The Don Lemon Show now on TikTok, on Instagram, on Facebook, on YouTube, on Twitch, and soon the Don Lemon channel as he continues his expansive freedom. There's something else that I have. I'll tell you later. I'll tell you more around. Oh, it's going to be private. You don't want to share it. I thought you shared everything with the audience.

I do, but, well, I don't want to. Look for an Amazon Prime opportunity happening soon. All right. There you go. Happy for your success, sir. I am glad that your voice is still being heard louder than ever. My man. Thank you, sir.