The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - South Beach Sessions - Al Michaels

Episode Date: April 17, 2025

The NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, and Olympics may have its individual legends, but Al Michaels is the legendary voice of them all. One of the greatest sports broadcasters of all time shares with Dan his most cherished moments and iconic calls from six decades of covering the most major prime-time sports events of any announcer. Al reveals how it all began for him, how he created the career of his dreams and how equal parts luck and skill turned him into the man he is today. Al also tells Dan what he learned from the incredible broadcast partners like John Madden and Cris Collinsworth he's had along the way, and he explains the reason why he's not looking to retire anytime soon. The legacy of Al Michaels continues... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to Draft Kings Network. When planning for life's most important moments, sometimes the hardest part is simply knowing where to start. That's why we're here to help. When you pre-plan and prepay a celebration of life with us, every detail will be handled with simplicity and professionalism, giving you the peace of mind that you've done all you can today to remove any burden from your loved ones tomorrow. We are your local Dignity Memorial provider. Find us at DignityMemorial.ca. The Dignity Memorial branding is used to identify a network of licensed funeral cremation and cemetery providers owned and operated by affiliates of Service Corporation International.

Welcome to South Deep Sessions. We had to come out and see this man. This man, we fly to see the legends around here. I have heard this man's voice in my life since I was 12 years old. I've never met him and I feel like I sort of know you, but I also feel like you do a very good job in public for many years of broadcasting of people not knowing you. So I am hoping to learn a little more. Al Michaels, thank you for making the time for us.

Great to be here. You can't get rid of me. I want to keep you around for a while because I think your career is fascinating and I'm also curious the hows and the roots of how you do it. So what is your relationship with the work? I think the key thing is passion. And people have said to me obviously at this point in my life, aren't you going to retire? And I would if I didn't have the passion.

It's real simple. I think I would, I will know when it's definitely time when I can't do the job. That's a different thing. Health, of course, plays into that too, Dan. But to me, the whole thing is wanting to be there, loving to be there. As a kid growing up, my father took me to my first baseball game at Ebbets Field. We could walk. We lived in Brooklyn. We could walk to Ebbets Field. And I remember thinking, oh my god, this is just

the greatest thing in the world. And it's the first thing I remember. And I remember thinking, man, how great would it be to get a job where you get in for free, you get to see all the games. and I got that job and I've never forgotten that. And so that's why I think I still have the passion I do for this. Same, because my memory of my father, like I remember the size of his hand when he brought me through the orange bowl, the electricity of it. But when you're talking about passion, are you talking about passion for sports and stories, talking about passion for the craft stories? Talking about passion for the craft?

I think it's both. I think obviously I love walking into a stadium, I still do. I get excited. We get there obviously three hours before any game and I watch it build and now you know that you're going to do a telecast and I've been lucky enough for a lot of years to know that a good part of the country will be watching it. And I love the craft, I really do, and I think I try to, I can't reinvent the wheel,

obviously, at this particular point, but I think there are some tweaks you can make along the line. But I feel like the fundamentals are there. I mean, it's almost like going back to journalism class in the 10th grade at Hamilton High School here in Los Angeles, and it's who, what, when, where, how, and why.

Those are the fundamentals. And I try to stick to those, and I try to feel as one with the audience, and as somebody who has loved sports and watched sports and listened to games from the time I was six or seven years old, I think I have a very good connection with the audience and what they want. Now again, the audience is very disparate these days. There are sophisticated fans, you know, there are fans on ADHD who want you to scream the game at them, but I think I have a fairly good understanding of the general sports fan and what most of the audience wants. I think I do. I like that

the acid in want me to scream the game at them because the only criticisms I've ever heard of you and a distinguished career of broadcasting in 50 years is whenever it is that you were broadcasting basketball somebody people wanted some more enthusiasm, and now I suppose that's the criticism of the day on Amazon. Oh it is, there's no question. And then some of us are in that realm too.

I think, you know, I think I'm very similar to my brethren and Joe Buck and Jim Nance, and they don't scream the game at you. I think for me, on television you build drama. You can see it. Radio is a different animal. I grew up through radio, and obviously there maybe you can be a little bit more excitable

to bring the audience maybe closer to the game. On television, it's visual. On television, you can almost get away without using verbs, because people see the verb. The verb is a visual verb. So in today's world, you can't appeal to everybody. You can only appeal to, you hope, the majority of the audience. And you're always going to get criticized. Name somebody in our business, in any business now, who doesn't get ripped by somebody on the internet. It happens. Scott Cunningham You gave the answer though to when are you going to retire before I even ask the question. And I'm curious if you are annoyed now that people even bring it up,

like that you have the answer for it, but it's not a question you want to keep hearing about. Dr. Craig Lovell Yeah, I think, you know, look, a lot of people say to me, hey, don't retire. You can't, you're not retiring, are you? And I'm saying, well, at a certain point, you know, you retire or you die, one of the two things are going to happen. But as long as I want to be there, and again, I go back to that word, Dan, passion.

If you're excited, if you want to be there, if you look forward to the game, you can't wait for the game to start, as long as that is there in my fiber, I'll keep on going. And it's funny because the other night I went to a retirement dinner, a surprise dinner for Sam Rosen, who's done the New York Rangers for 40 years. And I think he's stepping away a little bit because he had a health episode last year, but Sam is still at the top of his game. And we talked about the fact that he can't wait for the game to start. I get it.

That's exactly how I feel. You get into the stadium, let's go. Let's kick it off. Let's drop the puck Let's do whatever it takes to to get the game going. We can't wait Do you do much in the way of nerves because you used to be somebody who would eat dinner while Broadcasting Sunday Night Football Well that that sort of became something that Chris Collins worth put out there, but I think it was a little bit embellished. I mean, I may grab a, you know, two bites of a steak at halftime or something and Chris

turned it into a six-course Michelin three-star meal. The creme brulee came out at the end. No, it's not quite that. Believe it or not. But how about the nerves though? Like, are you still someone? I mean, surely at this point you have confidence that you – the confidence, if nothing else, in the prep, because I'm guessing you still don't – you're still not loose about

it. My guess is that you are prepared every time. The only time I would really be nervous then is if I wasn't prepared. If I wasn't prepared, obviously then I'm going, oh, wait a second here. I'm afraid to go on the air, but I could never let that happen. I always have to be tightly in sync with what's going on, making sure that I'm completely prepared, ready to go anywhere. Now, obviously in sports, the great thing about sports is you don't know where the game's going to go. And sometimes you're in sports, the great thing about sports is you don't know where the game's gonna go.

And sometimes you're not prepared, but now my experience will kick in at that particular point. But I feel like every game is almost like, I know I'm not gonna ruin a 45 or 50 year reputation in one night unless I did something horrifically unbelievable, which I can't imagine happening. But, I mean, for the most part, I think of every game

as kind of like an audition. Hey, I gotta be really good tonight. I gotta be better than I've ever been. And that's the attitude I take into every game. Still? Still, still. Because they owe it to the audience. I think it's important.

I think it's important. They've tuned in, they want me at my best. I can't always be at the top of my game. Can't. Try to, though. I'm always trying to, I guess, to use a baseball analogy, I'm trying to pitch a perfect game. Trying to pitch the perfect game. Darrell Bock I never have? Scott Cunningham No. I think I've come close a few times, but there's always something no matter what it is I'll think about something after how did I miss that?

Her you know and I could I should have Could have might have so No, there's no game. It's to pitch a perfect game over three hours on National television is almost impossible, but at least you know you try to come as close as you can. Do you remember the actual games we're talking about here where you were like almost? I do. Which are the games? I do well I'll go back to one of my favorite baseball game would have been the fifth game of the 1986 American League Championship Series it's the Angels against the Red

Sox and it was a wild game, 5-2 Angels lead. They're up three games to one. They're gonna clinch the pen and Gene Autry's gonna win his first championship. I mean, it's crazy at Anaheim Stadium. That's when Don Baylor hit a home run to make the score 5-4. Dave Henderson hit that famous home run

for the Red Sox, 6-5. But then the Angels came back in the bottom of the ninth and tied the game and had the bases loaded and won out and Doug DeCincie and Bobby Gritch couldn't get the winning run home. The game goes to the tenth inning. This is the Donnie Moore game. This is the Donnie Moore to Dave Henderson game. Exactly right.

And so now it's extra innings and the Angels have a man at first base. It's Jerry Naran who was either pinch running or coming to the game, and the count goes to three and two, and Gary Pettis is the batter, switch hitter batting left-handed, almost no power, and he hits a drive to deep left field. I mean, it's a hot day at Anaheim Stadium, the ball is just traveling like crazy, and Jim Rice goes all the way back and makes the catch against the left field fence and as he reaches up, he hauls it in and has to look into his glove to make sure he caught it. So now the game goes to the 11th with the Red Sox winning.

The Red Sox eventually will go on to win game six and seven and they go to the World Series where they run into the whole Bill Buckner thing against the Mets. So now I'm driving home because it's a home game for me and I'm on the freeway and I'm thinking I think that's about as good as I can call a baseball game. Then I'm going, wait a minute, what was Jim Rice doing playing so deep against Gary Pettis? And then I think, well hell, the night before Pettis had hit one over Rice's head in the fourth game. And I was going, why couldn't I have thought of that? So in other words, as happy as I was, and as proud as I was of

the job I thought I did that day, I'm going, damn, there's just something there. You know, it was a walk in the ninth inning of a perfect game. I screwed up. I can't believe the recall that you just had for that. I don't remember things I did a half hour with ago. Me neither. With those kinds of details. Do you have others like that one? Do you have that kind of recall for everything? Not everything, but I can recall a lot of things, a lot of things. And I find that it's funny, a more recent vintage, it's harder, but you go back to a lot of the stuff I did early on in my career. Yeah, I have pretty good recall about some of the stuff that happened, yes.

Do you have another game that jumps to mind like that where you were very close and very close to whatever you think perfect was? I would think, yeah, I would say the Super Bowl following the 08 season the Arizona Cardinals against the Pittsburgh Steelers. It turned out to be John Madden's last broadcast. I didn't know that until April John but you know it was John and and I were finishing our seventh year together had a wonderful time I thought John was brilliant that day. The game was crazy because first of all, what were the Arizona Cardinals doing there, right? They lost like 50-7 to New England in week 15.

Like the 9-7 team. Right, the 9-7 team. And then Larry Fitzgerald has a postseason for the Asians, and Kurt Warner is the quarterback. And somehow they get into the, you know, they beat Philadelphia in the NFC Championship game. And you know know people are going, what are the Cardinals, this Morabund franchise doing there? And it was, and the Cardinals were able to hang in. That's the game that featured two of the most iconic plays in NFL history. James Harrison's 100-yard interception return at the end of the half when Arizona's going in to take the lead and send them.

Did you nail that call? Did you nail that? You nailed it. I thought I caught that call pretty good because he's going down the sideline. That's crazy. Right. And meanwhile, not only does he go 100 yards, but the clock is running out. So if he doesn't get into the end zone, if he gets knocked out at the one yard line,

he can't even kick the field goal. And Fitzgerald's hunting him down. He gets there a yard later. Larry's running. Larry, I said later, I think Larry ran through the entire state of Arizona because he's getting in the middle of his bench and he can't get back to tackle Harrison. So Harrison scores, and then Fitzgerald scores on a long touchdown reception with about two and a half minutes to go and then Rothlisberger leads Pittsburgh on a great drive, incredible drive. I think he made three-third down passes, get down

deep and then that Santonio Holmes catch with Sports Illustrated had that picture. You've got three Cardinal defenders around him and somehow Rothlisberger, it's just like his third or fourth choice at that point, Puts it up in there perfectly. Holmes gets his feet down in. And I remember, I walked out of that game thinking, yeah, I think that's about as good as I can do. But again, I would pick it apart later on, but that will always be one of my favorite telecasts ever

because it was John Madden's last game. And John was fabulous, but he waited till April, and then he, and when John retired, he waited till April and then he and when John retired you know he made it very simple he just said it's time it's time he knew it and that was the end of that. I've seen you quoted in a way that suggests that that's the way that you're going to do it you seem to admire the way that Madden did that. No question I don't need and people say well why don't you do like a victory too no? No, what are we talking about? First of all it would be

embarrassing to me to do that to go around the country. Oh this is how it's last, who cares? I mean to me it's not a big deal. Oh but it'd be sweet to hear people tell you how they feel about you during something that might be difficult for you if you get a lot of identity from this, which I imagine you do. Well, yeah, but I mean I appreciate, I get a lot of very nice feedback and have for a good part of my career and I'm very appreciative of it, but I don't need to be told, well, you know, a lot of people tell me because, you know, I'm old enough and they're young enough that, you know, I'm the soundtrack of their lives in sports and it's it's wonderful to hear that

because look there were soundtracks of my life too Vince Scully, Kurt Gowdy going all the way back I get I'm a Cuban boy in South Florida you introduced me to hockey you your call on that game introduced me to the sport of hockey it's been all downhill for you since then. Totally. Hey listen, that is number one. Nothing is ever going to beat that. Nothing. But I think that, I mean to me, it would be embarrassing to have that tour. And I know that like, Vince Scully was a great friend and the greatest baseball announcer ever by far. And Vin was resistant to having a grand tour. He was 86 years old in 2016.

And then finally they really had to convince him. But it was kind of a different animal because Vinny, you know, remember he was the voice of a team. So he was part of a family, the Dodger family, you know, a huge family through the years. And I know they used to have these contests about greatest Dodger of all time. Was it Kofax? Was it Duke Snyder?

No, I'll tell you who would win every year. It was Vinny, because he spanned generations. People loved him. He's part, he's in your house every night. I'm a different animal. When you're on national television, there's really no home base. And I suppose if I was the announcer for a team,

yeah, maybe I'd have a kind of like a farewell tour, but there's like, I'm all over the place. People have different rooting interests as opposed to a broadcaster like Avini or Marty Brenneman in Cincinnati, who was there for 45 years and actually succeeded me after I did three years back in the early 70s. But no, I mean, I think when the time comes I'll pretty much say, hey, thank you very much and see you.

Darrell Bock Embarrassing? Embarrassing. You think it would be embarrassing to absorb the – and I understand it's a distinction you're making I hadn't considered, which is the idea of you wouldn't have a regional adoration anywhere of a connection to people that you would say goodbye to. But embarrassing because you don't want to be a part of this. You've been taught to not be the story, to just be the accent on the story. That's right. That's exactly right, Dan. I think when you make yourself the story, you're doing a disservice

to the business. So I don't want to be the story. I want to be the narrator or the connection or the conduit or whatever, but not the story. No. So I would imagine that you're a bit mortified by the evolution of your profession to the point that today's media part of the advancement of many media members is to insert yourself or try to insert yourself in the story because attention's the new currency. But most of that comes from the shoulder programming and talk shows. It's very hard for a play-by-play announcer to get into that realm because you'd probably be thrown out because people, they want to watch the game. Now it's a completely

different animal to go on a show, first take or whatever you have, and argue with each other and have contentiousness and all of that. That's a different animal. And you have to, when you're doing play-by-play, you don't have time to get into, involved in these discussions and in dialogue. You don't. To me, the greatest example of what television is, live television of sports events, going back to 1980, the Olympics in Lake Placid, obviously we know what happened, but prior to that my partner was Ken Dryden, the great goalie for the Montreal Canadiens, who retired at the age of 30, won multiple Vezina trophies and Stanley Cups. And Kenny and I had met in Moscow about two months before the Olympics to scout the Olympic teams.

They were playing in a tournament in Moscow. All of the teams were there except for the United States team wasn't participating, but the Soviets were the Canadians, Finns, Swedes. And the first night Kenny and I meet and Kenny's very erudite and he almost looked like a professor. He's everything but the pipe and the glasses and the slippers, but very imposing fellow, extremely well-read and he's written some fantastic books. And so Kenny talks to me for several minutes about the difference between international hockey

and national hockey league hockey at that point, the wider ranks, the fact that it's a more physical game in the national Hockey League. And he finishes and he says, now, do you think this is something the American audience would be interested in? I said, yes. But Kenny, let me introduce you to the world of television. Can you say it in eight seconds? That's it. So the play-by-play genre is completely different than going on a three hour talk show

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Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. What do you think of the evolution of sports media? Because you're right, it's a bit of a give me the facts sanctuary. There's part of the reason I think I don't know your personality is because you're a bit purposeful about making sure that we don't know your personality, because you're trying to get out of the way of what it I don't understand the rigor you're applying in I must stay out of the way I'm not the story here. Well maybe people probably get to know me on shows like this, because now I can talk and I have a lot more time to expound a little bit. And I'm not averse to showing my personality, who I am, but it would be in something like

this show or going on other shows or being interviewed by any number of people over the course of the years about particular events or whatever or talking about the art. But the game is sacred is what you're saying, the game is sacred. The game is the most important thing by far. Now I can help make you understand maybe the game better, I can entertain you, but the game is still the essence of what I do. That is, you can't lose sight of it. And the one time, maybe you'll see me, if the game is a complete blowout, then I can go a little far afield.

I think people enjoy that. I know that the first year we were on Amazon, we were doing a game in Denver and I'm working with Kirk Herbstreet who I didn't know until we started working together. Kirk loves football more than anybody on the planet and the game was so terrible, it was only our fourth game. And I said early in the fourth quarter, I said, is it possible a game can be so bad that it's good? And Kurt goes, no! Hold on a second. That game went to overtime. It was horrendous. It was 9-9, no touchdowns,

penalties up the kazoo. You still seem pissed off about it. You sounded pissed off. You sounded on behalf of America. You were indignant watching how shitty that game was. But people loved that. They loved that. and then we had a shot coming out of commercial going into overtime and there's a shot from outside the stadium and you know a few hundred people are leaving going to the parking lot and Kirk says It's overtime. How can they leave? And I said they've seen enough. So I mean that's as much personality as they will inject into the game. Well not just personality, opinion too because I felt in your voice sort of an undercurrent

of I'm too old for this shit. Do you know how many of these I've seen that are better than this one? Well it wasn't too old. Look, I've done 900 to 1,000 NFL games. Not all have been great, obviously. I've had a whole bunch of those as well. But yeah, I think at that point, I think I'm connecting to the audience at that point. I think a lot of people said,

that's exactly how I feel. It's unusual to hear disdain in your voice when broadcasting a game. When you ravage yourself after a game that hasn't gone well, how gentle in general are you with yourself? Well, again, it's the, probably it's the perfectionist in me, and I don't like to be anything but And I don't like to be anything but perfect. I certainly try to be. It's almost impossible, but it depends.

I mean, there are times when I won't really be pissed off at myself to the extent that damn, you know, but I'll think why couldn't I have thought of that at that particular time? And it's mainly things that happen, and they happen rapidly, instantaneously. And I'm just upset with myself for not thinking it through more quickly. So it's more about that. I mean, I don't beat myself up because I know there's another game coming up pretty soon. So you have a chance to – I don't want to say a tone, but maybe you'll pitch the perfect game next week.

What would your wife of 58 years, Linda, say to me about your perfectionism? She understands it. She just lets me, you know, if I'm upset about something in regard to, you know, how I performed or whatever, she gets it. So you know, let's, and I don't really vent, I mean, it's like, okay, let's kind of move on. Deal with it, make it quick, don't belabor it. Don't belabor it.

Well, I've read some quotes from you. You don't like to spend a lot of time in the past. In fact, I've read something I wanted to ask you about, which is you're saying that you have a practiced discipline about trying to stay present. This is something I've learned since the death of my brother, sort of the importance and the tranquility of trying to not be – allow the mind to race off into other places where there's less gratitude. Right. Right. Yeah, no, I don't – you know, like there's a phrase in Yiddish, you know what, being

out the cocker, which means, you know, living 20 years ago, 30, whatever. So look, I love being with people and like you and I have been discussing the 1986 American League Championship Series and the Super Bowl from 08 and all, that's fine. But you gotta live in the present. Live in the moment if you can. And I've always felt it's important. I mean the past is the past. It's wonderful. But don't keep living there. And I don't really think about the future that much either. In the moment, in the present, wake up each day and think, hey, this is pretty cool. I'm alive and here we go. Darrell Bock Are you introspective though? Because looking

into the past would be helpful there, right? Dr. C. C. C. Can be, can be. But don't just – don't immerse yourself in it. You know, I just enjoy life. I'm a curious person. I like to wake up every day and, you know, can't wait to read the papers, go on the internet, find out what's happening in the world, not just the world of sports, but just try to stay current, topical, and be able to discuss the events of the day or what's taking place at that moment in time. That's important to me. Darrell Bock What is the best and worst stuff involved with being 80? Well I guess the worst stuff is thinking about it. It's as

I keep telling my friend the great John Shaw who was the president of the Rams for a lot of years and one of my great buddies and I said John we can't do the math let's stop doing don't do the math. You know I used to wake up you know Dan I thought when I was starting my career, I thought I was going to probably die by the time I was 40. And I wanted to accomplish everything by the time I was 30. And I accomplished some amazing stuff because I was in the right place at the right time. I did the World Series on national television at age 27.

How I got the job of the Cincinnati Reds, we win the pennant. NBC uses the team announcers. I'm going, this was my dream. I'm in high school thinking about I wanna do the World Series. I gotta do it before I'm 30 because at 30, you're an old man, at 40 you die. So think about that.

Why did you think you were gonna die at 40? Because 40 just seemed like ancient at that point. It did. I think I was driven early on by wanting to do all of the stuff that I dreamed about, which has come true amazingly enough. You've exceeded. You've exceeded your expectations, right? Do it faster, no question. As a kid growing up, I'm dreaming about doing the World Series, I'm dreaming about doing the Olympics. The Super Bowl didn't even exist at that particular point. Got them all. Got them all. Kentucky

Derbies, Indianapolis 500s, I mean the whole thing is like crazy. I feel anointed in that regard and I dreamed about all of this stuff then and it all came true in space, it did. stuff then, and it all came true in space. It did. And believe me, there is nobody more appreciative and more thankful than me. And I think I wrote a book in 2014 and didn't know how to end it, and then I think my last line was, you know, if God wants to get even with me in my next life, I'm working in a sulfur mine in Mongolia on the night shift. And that's the reverse of the life I've lived. Yeah, you've lived it in the light. What kind of ambition monster were you as a kid to conquer that way, that early?

I think I thought that having been introduced to it that early, and I think maybe growing up in Brooklyn and then we moved to Los Angeles, same year the Dodgers did all crazy things. So I listened to Vinny, my whole, from the time I was six years old I heard Vinny. I love that you call Vin Scully Vinny because you know him so well. Right, Vinny. No one calls him Vinnie. Vinnie, yeah. But that's how I knew him and we became very good friends obviously through the years.

I was honored because when he was going to do his last year, they asked me to do the ceremony at Dodger Stadium before the opening day in 2016. He wanted me to do it and I was very excited and honored to do that. But I think listening to him and he made me so much, so love baseball and then I loved the other sports as well. My father was a gigantic sports fan so we went to, you know, we went to see the New York Rangers when I was seven.

That's how I became a hockey fan. The football giants, we had three baseball teams in New York at that time, the Yankees and the Giants were there. The Knicks, so my first NBA experience would have been going to Madison Square Garden, the Old Garden in an 18-league and they would play double-headers. So the first game might be Fort Wayne against Syracuse and then they leave after that game after the court. The next game they come to the Knicks and the Celtics. So you get to see half the NBA. Yeah, but everyone who lived there got that. Right. And you got all the jobs. Like what was the nature of the ambition, right? Like every kid

wanted to be doing what you were doing. How did you get there? How were you better than the others? And how obsessive compulsive were you about, I need to get ahead? In high school, I knew exactly what I wanted to do. And then when it came time to go to college, I wanted to go to a school where it afforded you the opportunity on the campus station to do games. Now it's not like it is now where every school has that. But now in those years, and we had moved from New York to Los Angeles, I wanted to stay out west. I wanted to go away to school, but not far.

So Arizona State had one of the very, very few radio and TV programs with the opportunity for the student to do the games. So we picked Arizona State. I say we, it's my father and I. And I went down there and sure enough, that turned out to be unbelievable for me because the baseball team, which won a national championship my junior year there

with Sal Bando and Rick Monday and Reggie Jackson, so I've known all those guys going all the way back. But I remember thinking, you know, wow, I've had the opportunity to do almost 200 baseball games. I've done probably 40 football games. I've probably done close to a hundred basketball games. I've done track meets. I was the sports editor of the School of Paper. So I was immersed in this. I was ready to go. And all I needed was that one opportunity, that one break. And it came in Hawaii, of all places. I went over there

to meet with the general manager of the Hawaii Islanders, a man by the name of Jack Quinn, gave me the job, and maybe it was out of the cannon since then. I want to talk to you about Hawaii, but you mentioned your dad, Ebbets Field, a couple of times. It was your mom, though, that took you to the racetrack, right? Yes, it was. Yeah. Now, this was when we moved out to California, and my mother was pretty much a combination of Phyllis Diller meets Joan Rivers. She was a character, and she loved pulling pranks. And my father was more upstanding, so he would take me to Hollywood Park like on a Saturday. But my mother would come to high school, to Hamilton High, go to the

principal's office on a Wednesday and say, Alan has a dentist appointment. And then she take me out of school and the dentist appointment was at Hollywood Park. Right? That's the mother of mothers. And then a couple of my buddies knew what was going on So then my mother would come with a note for them as well until this school got hit to what was happening It seems slightly irresponsible It was amazing. So that's how I got into horse racing and you know all of that And and then going to Arizona State of all crazy things my journalism professor was a guy named Gordon Jones Who became the handicapper for the Los Angeles Herald Examiner and is well known in horse racing circles and we

would end class early if we had something in the Daily Double at Turf Paradise to get out of Tempe and go to the race track. Well, when you mention connection to audience, I imagine, I don't know what the comment is you get most often, probably some form of do you believe in miracles? Yes, an enduring thing from 45 years ago, but I imagine many people are great, very high on that list would be people thanking you by slapping you on the back for all the gambling references during the game when you're speaking in code. I was way ahead of my time, wasn't I, I now I mean You know I always enjoyed there was always a part of me that enjoyed being the rascal and just kind of doing something a little

Off-center and so for all of those years what I would do obviously the score was 41 nothing I might say this game is not quite over and of course that became sort of a thing and I would always Try to envision in my brain the sports books in Vegas and you know the guys laughing like crazy when I would say something like that and now of course it's like you know the lines and the whole thing and over-unders and but it was fun doing it in those years it was fun because you kind of you know you're tweaking the establishment a little bit even though there was no way the NFL wanted me to stop doing that, right?

I mean, they could, you know, bare their teeth, oh, I wish you wouldn't do it, not really. You know, it was okay for them, too. The rascal stuff comes from Mom, right? A thousand percent. Because I don't know, we have a lot of evidence of you being a rascal. Not a lot, but I mean, it's either, well, Well, you know, I was I was more of a rascal I was a rascal in in college You know because in college most kids are rascals, but I think it's what college is for it's what college is right exactly

It's exactly not exactly Exactly. So, you know, but I think I'm not I'm not you know, but I think, I'm not, you know me, I'm not, certainly through my work, I mean, I'm not cut and dried. Oh, I'm not accusing you of being cut and dried. I just don't think anyone here would be saying, that's crazy that Al Michael, you know, sort of tilts toward rascal. Right. Well, I kind of do it parenthetically. Let's put it that way. But you're also so respectful of what it is that you're doing, right? You're so mindful about not getting in the way of what it is that you're doing that I don't see the rebel – I can't look at a lot of points other than the gambling in your voice and in 50 years of broadcasting find a lot of you know

looking for the dangerous edge. I think a rascal is a little sure to be in a rebel. You know a rascal is fun. You know a rebel can be a pain in the ass. So that to me is a distinct difference. I think most people watching this would say, fun, pain in the ass. Pain in the ass. I think so. I think I might get some of that. Take us through your upbringing. What are the things that your parents instilled that are the things that you still carry with

you now? Well, I'm lucky because I grew up with fantastic parents. I was born when they were 18, so you can imagine, you know, I kind of happened, right? Yeah, they're not ready to be parents. Not ready to be parents. And not a lot of money, and we lived in a one-bedroom apartment on Ocean Avenue in Brooklyn until I was 11 years old. And my father was, you know, kind of working his way up, was with a talent agency in New York. And then we moved to – he got a $10 a week raise or whatever. We moved to Long Island for two years. And then out to California

when I was almost 14 years old. So I had a wonderful – my mother was fantastic. My father was a tremendous man, very smart. And, you know, again, 18 years old, So I had a one – my mother was fantastic, my father was a tremendous man, very smart and again, 18 years old, he's a father, and he was the one who introduced me to like everything in the world. And he died when I was 38. You know, I still miss him to this day tremendously because I could go to him with almost anything, and he would have a great understanding and be able to evaluate it. And again, I'm so lucky because so many kids don't have the upbringing that I had.

And so it was a, and you know, when we lived in Brooklyn, somebody once said, oh, Al had a silver spoon. A silver spoon, let me get this straight. We lived in a one-bedroom apartment on the second floor of a Brooklyn apartment building, and my brother and I slept in the bedroom, and my parents slept on a Castro convertible in the living room. Until I was 11. That's some silver spoon, let me tell you something.

That's plastic dishes and knives and forks. But anyway, I was, they were wonderful, wonderful people. And again, I'm a byproduct of them. There's no question. You may or may not know this, but 20 years ago, the origins of this very show were just a dream for Dan and Stu Gatz. That dream turned into a show and a business

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For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.co. How would you articulate for us the secrets in being married for 58 years? Number one, a lot of luck. Because when you meet somebody in the 10th grade, in the 10th grade, and then you know each other for six years, and you're married for, as we have been at this point, 58. And she's, you know, fantastic, the love of my life, and she's been rocking and rolling with me all the way. And I tell you, Dan, the greatest thing is that

we've shared everything. There's nothing in my life that hasn't been shared with Linda Michaels. So it's like, it's incredible. And I am again, you know, unbelievably thankful for my life, my career, and finding the right girl. I mean, you know, you pick somebody out of a bassinet, you know, when we were 14 years old, and it's been a wonderful ride. And again, I go back to that, you know, I'm working in that sofa mine in Mongolia

on the night shift of my next life. How have you and her changed over those 58 years? I think we've evolved. I mean, you get older, you know, when you're, we got married at 21, we're different people, but you know, we've just grown together. We've grown together. And we kind of raised our kids with the right thing.

Again, I'm so lucky because I have two incredibly well-adjusted kids. I have four grandkids, and I've lived the dream. You hate to even say it, it because again you go back to a Yiddish term, a kind of horror meaning, you know, don't talk about something because you're putting the evil eye on it. And it's, you know, it's, I'm lucky. But you regard it as being a journey that does not have a whole lot of hardship or doubt in it beyond, you know, growing up with not the silver spoon.

I would say for the most part yes yeah yeah but just and I think a lot of it has to do with appreciation. We appreciate it we've never said we've never oh we got to keep up with the Joneses or do this or do that or that these people are doing this. No never it was just, I think, a great appreciation for the lot in life that we've been given. I'm going to give you a little bit of failure here. Why did Chick Hearn get rid of you after four games as a Lakers announcer? And does that represent the greatest failure of your distinguished career? Number one, I shouldn't have been there. Right? I get a job in PR with California sports, Jack Cancuk, and Jack Cancuk used me as a sacrificial lamb to make Chick work with somebody. Chick

wanted to work alone. So, you know, I shouldn't have been there to begin with. And then Chick and I became good friends through the years. And in fact, when Chick died, the LA Times asked me to write the appreciation piece, which I enjoyed doing very, very much. Did Pat Riley assume the role soon after you did? No, Hot Rod Hunley got the job. So Hot Rod had retired, and then Hot Rod came in in and he was Chick's partner for a while. And then I think it was several years later

when Riley came in there and was Chick's partner. But you know, of course I was upset, embarrassed, angry, but that, it all happened so fast. And then on the heels of that, the Hawaii thing happened. So it's almost like, forget about that. Tell us about Hawaii so you immediately start winning broadcasting awards in Hawaii and I would imagine there's at least some culture shock and being over there that young.

There was but we loved it. We loved it and you know I was married at that point and Linda and I we had an apartment at the foot of Diamond Head on the 11th floor small apartment but Dan I would wake Head on the 11th floor, small apartment. But, Dan, I would wake up in the morning, I'd go swimming either, there's a pool downstairs, or go into the ocean, go into the Pacific Ocean, and come back, get dressed, go to work. You know, I was doing every, baseball, football, basketball, you name it. I'm on television twice a day. I'm writing a column for a local paper.

And by the way, a couple of really odd things about this. So in 1970, I'm doing University of Hawaii football, the Rainbows, it was before they were the Rainbow Warriors. They were the Rainbows at that point. And there's a guy playing for them who had no idea, there was no memory of this guy, what his name was, what he did. But I find out earlier this year that Jim Nance is doing a game in Kansas City and Taylor

Swift's father, Scott, comes into the booth and said, you know, I played for the University of Hawaii in 1970 and Al Michaels was the announcer. And it was true. It was true. Looked it up and, you know, I don't remember him, I don't think he remembers me, but he knew that I was the announcer for the Hawaii team in 1970. And it was all about baseball at that point.

I did three years of baseball at Hawaii. We at that point became the most successful minor league franchise. We drew almost a half a million people in 1970. And we won our division. We went into the playoffs against the Spokane Indians who were the Dodger Farm team. Steve Garvey, Davey Lopes, Bill Russell, Bobby Valentine, managed by Tommy Lasorda. And Lasorda dines out, or used to dine out on the story about how he discovered me because he would always talk to Al Campanis, the general manager, after every game and give him a recap of what

happened. And one night he says he calls Campanis after the, I think the seventh, we have a play of seven game series, because they came over because of the travel situation. Teams would come over all week. So Spokane is there, got to know all those guys. And he calls Camp Patterson, he says, hey, you know, Valentine did this, Buckner did this. Hey, Alex, there's a kid over here, he's doing the games on radio. This kid's really, really good. I know you got Vinny, but you should keep an eye out on this guy. His name is Al Michaels. And the conversation continues, Campana says, Tommy, this guy you're talking about, this Al Michaels kid, how do you know he's any good? Tommy says, I've been thrown out of the last four games, I've been out in the clubhouse

listening to him. Now, so of course Tommy embellished it, but he was thrown out of three out of four. One night he gets, it's like the third game of of the series he gets thrown out like the second inning, and in Hawaii the clubhouse was way beyond the center field fence. So it's not like you come up through a tunnel in the dugout. So Tommy gets serenaded, right? He walks all the way, he's 500 feet from home plate, and he is listening on the radio. So the next night he comes out, he gets thrown out when he brings out the lineup card, right? So now he's two full games.

And then in the sixth game he gets thrown out like in the sixth or seventh inning. Now on top of all of this, the umpire who threw him out was Bruce Freming, who would go on to umpire like 35, 40 years in the, I mean you can't make any of this up. And our manager is Chuck Tanner, and I got all these guys. I mean it's like, this was crazy. So Lesorda takes credit for finding me. And then the Cincinnati Reds find out about me. They bring me in November of 1970 to meet with me.

And I wound up getting that job. And by the way, I got to mention one thing here. This is a good opinion for you. Steve Garvey should be in the Hall of Fame. The fact that Steve Garvey is not in the Hall of Fame is absurd. It's ridiculous. I don't care about this war shit and all this other whatever it is, right? It's all about analytics, Dan.

Come on. Please. Put Steve Garvey in the Hall of Fame. Stop it already. I love your indignance. Do you have more of these? I'll take all of them that you got. The old sports columnist in you. You got me wound up. I love your indignance. Do you have more of these? I'll take all of them that you got.

The old sports columnist in you. You got me wound up. Do you think of yourself initially as a writer? Like, were you dreaming of broadcast? Like, the dream was what in its earliest stages? The dream was broadcasting, but I knew to broadcast well, I needed to be able to write because what you're doing is you're writing in your head and saying the words. So I majored in radio and TV at Arizona State,

minored in journalism, I was the sports editor of the State Press at Arizona State, I was the sports editor of my high school newspaper. So I loved to write, I did the appreciation pieces I said for Chick Hearn. So I loved to write. But explain to me the beast in you, Al, because like, you're doing stuff young, you know what

you want, what grade, eight, you're eight or nine years old and you know what you want. Give me the details of what it took. I think it took just, again, I think almost more than anything it's an aftere where I thought I could do all of this and I look back now and go, man alive, did I get the break of breaks. Now again, I did all of the grunt work growing up, writing in the high school paper, taking a cassette recorder to Dodger Stadium and sitting up, you know, in the high end down the left field line where nobody was and Announce and calling the games on on that doing all of those games at Arizona State

I mean it was school was fine, but it was all about being able to broadcast those games So I positioned myself. I put myself in a position those games. So I positioned myself, I put myself in a position to at least have the opportunity if somebody could hear me and give me a break and of course that that happened you know in in Hawaii. Hawaii that was the big break. But I prepared myself. This wasn't like I woke up one day and said I want to be a sportscaster. I wanted to be it since I was the time you know the time I was a kid, dreamed about everything and did all of the things I think you had to do. But again, I go back to this being naive because I'm thinking, wow, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that, and I'm

going to go, whew, if there's no Jack Quinn in my life in Hawaii, I don't know what happens. I don't know. Oh, but it's not luck. It's not luck to get all the things out. It's not you need that first break that first break is huge huge and I wind up getting that break in Hawaii and we are the successful minor league team and We get I get noticed and that leads to Cincinnati and I'm doing the Cincinnati Reds with Rose bench Morgan Perez Sparky at 26 years old. Wow, you know it happened It happened fast, but it happened because I built a base. Darrell Bock I can probably get another opinion out of you if I ask you about posthumous Hall of Fame Pete Rose.

I'm guessing I could find something in there that gets you indignant again. Dr. Craig Love Yeah, I wouldn't say indignant. I mean, look, Pete was a good friend in addition to somebody I covered. You know, every day for three years he was a good friend in addition to somebody I covered, you know, every day for three years. He was a good friend. I saw him two months before he died he came out here because they did a documentary on Pete, The Matter of Pete Rose. I've never enjoyed covering a player in any sport more than Pete because Pete was the

embodiment to me of what an athlete should be every day coming to the ballpark every single day and having covered him in a spring training game and in the seventh game of a World Series, there's no difference. He played it the same way, balls out, all out. So I wish he would have gotten in. I understand what he did. What he did was bad. I get it. I understand it.

But, I mean, now to put him in posthumously, I don't know what that means at this particular in. I understand what he did. What he did was bad. I get it. I understand it. But I mean, now to put him in posthumously, I don't know what that means at this particular point. I could get indignant about Garvey because Garvey has to be in. And I understand why Pete wasn't put in. But to me, what Pete did, that's a record that was impossible to break. Ty Cobb's record. Impossible. And he did it. And it's not that Pete had all the talent in the world, he didn't, but he worked his ass off. And he was a lot of fun to be around. So you've mentioned your beloved Vin Scully Vinny

a few times now. He came on with us one time and he told the story of being mortified by his greatest mistake, which is he meant to say, shot hit foul and shot and hit became shit and and he recalls all of the details of that at bat in the 1960s. Do you have an error that haunts you? No I really I don't and again you know somehow Vinnie was able to survive that, I guess. Yes, he did okay after that.

You might say. No, I once got a shit on the air because we came at a commercial. We were doing a game. I was on Monday Night Football, and Leslie Visser was our sideline reporter. And Leslie went to Boston College, and she's always throwing the Boston College stuff in there. So in the commercial break Leslie said something about somebody who was in the game at Boston College so we I didn't realize we were at a commercial. I said Leslie stop that Boston College shit. So it made noise at that point but again this is kind of like pre-internet, pre-antisocial media

and all of the rest. So, you know, you survive those moments. What can I tell you? You've carved out a simple life for yourself, right? Do you have management? Do you have an assistant? Do you have like people around you tending to the economy of Al Michaels? No, I don't. I'm representative. I mean, Marvin Demmelec represented me for a lot of years. But Marvin does the deals and is a mentor in many ways. No, I don't. I'm lucky I have very good friends who,

if I need feedback or advice or whatever or a boost, I've got a lot of people, enough people in my life, I'm very lucky in that regard, built a nice base of pals. But no, I kind of do things by myself. It's like, you know, being booked for this show, hey, talk to me directly. It's just easier that way. Simple.

You know, I think it's just, the more you can uncomplicate your life life the better it is. That's always been the way I've gone about it. What are the parts of the job that people don't know about? Because if I said to the average person watching a game, Al Michaels has one game a week. Al Michaels has to prepare for one game. That person might think that that job is five hours, seven hours, nine hours. They don't see you, you know, looking at the 50th guy on the depth chart on Tuesday. True. Yeah, and now we're kind of immersed in

information that's available to us. I think we live in a world, Dan, of people talking about TMI, too much information. I talk about TMM. There's too much misinformation. So one of the hardest things now is we have, I have access to everything. I have access to, the fans have access to almost everything. I have access more than they do. We can pick up the phone, call people, meet with people and get some insight and information that they can't. But I try to do as much studying as I can, watch as much tape as I can before a game. You know, I watch tape differently. For the the analysts will watch like Kirk, before that Chris Collins, they're watching it differently. They're looking for the things

that they can bring out as an analyst. What I'm looking at is if I'm doing a game like I have the Cowboys, and the Cowboys have been on national television a week before, I wanna know what they did with the broadcast itself, in addition to what happened in the game, but what are the things that have been talked about

and the things that haven't been talked about and the things that haven't been talked about, right? He said, I don't want to go on after 40 million people have watched The Cowboys on Fox and come and go and tell a story that's been told last week. I'll reference it, I'll go, hey, as they said last week, or Kevin Burkhardt said, or Joe Buck said, in the older days, olden days, give them credit for what

was said. But give us the idea of the preparation. Explain to us, to get to the broadcast for Al Michaels to be prepared and feel confidence in his preparation, what is the tax on that? Well, it starts, it really doesn't stop. I mean, even now, I'm paying close attention to everything that happens in the National Football League because I want to – my brain kind of works like a calendar. I see my brain working from back to front. So I have this base of – back

in April, they were talking about this, and now here we are in September or October. And that's, I kind of have a chronological brain. Is it crowded up there? It's very crowded up there. In fact, I'm trying to dump a whole bunch of stuff out of it, and I can't do it. Tell me where you want me to do it. You're a hoarder?

You can do some of it here if you want. I am a hoarder. No, I know, I'm trying to. I'm getting rid of a lot of stuff here. Let it go here. Like, if you want to just dump it out right there, that's a good place for it. It'll come back in by the time I get to the street, though.

That's the problem. So I find that, look, you do all of the reading you can. You do all of the research that you can. And then you just have to just back it off a little bit as you get to the game, right? Slow it down. Time out. You can't get all of this stuff in. And I would say, of all the stuff we are prepared for, you know, we have production meetings,

and we have, you know, big meetings the morning of the game and all of that. We talk about a lot of things of which maybe 10% get into the game. That's a lot. Ten. Because unless it's germane to the game, it doesn't matter. We can have the greatest story in the world about the Nickelback or whatever. If he's not a part of the game, where are you going with this? You're going nowhere. Nowhere. So, you've got to tie it into, and this is what I tell the young guys coming up to, make

it germane. Understand where the game is. And early on, I worked for Rune Arwich at ABC, hired me back in 1976, and he brought to television up close and personal. Because to Rune, the games were good, but there's a sameness to the games which is different. It's the people. It's the people it's the people you know people want to have a the audience wants to have a connection

with people and so I've always been driven by that concept too. How do you do with anxiety? I'm sorry how do I do it? Anxiety? Fortunately fine you know. I would imagine that prep helps with that. I imagine that you have the confidence of expertise and excellence and all of that stuff, like you say stack successes on top of each other. But if you're a little afraid beforehand that you don't want to embarrass yourself on the air, you're going to do all of the things that need to be done to avoid that. There's no question. If there's an anxious moment, obviously it's when you're coming on the air, you're going to do all of the things that need to be done to avoid that. No question. There's no question.

Now, if there's an anxious moment, obviously it's when you're coming on the air. And having done 11 Super Bowls on national television, I know when I'm going to look into that lens, you've got 100 million people or whatever the number is on that particular day, you're like a horse coming out of the starting gate, get out cleanly. You don't want to throw the rider. You don't want to stumble. You don't want to the starting gate, get out cleanly. You don't want to throw the rider. You don't want to stumble. You don't want to fall down. Just get out cleanly.

And I know that every time I've done a Super Bowl, you get going. And it's almost like when the players say, you know, you take that first hit, and then you're back where you belong. I've been here before. I'm ready to go. It's exciting as hell.

But the anxiousness comes early on no question Can you explain to somebody watching this? I mean so much learning that you've done if you could put some advice in a box on what you've learned about this business and about the craft for that to represent you and Explain to an al Michaels who's eight years old right now watching this how do I get there? Like how do you beyond luck? What are what are the things the tangible things that you've learned? You have to work at it. You have to work hard at it. I think you have to be optimistic too

I think you have to think you can do and I Would say and I tell us you know when I talk to a lot of my high school kids or college kids who are interested in the business, think positively. I can do this. I can do this. And I don't want to sound like a pastor or somebody because I'm not a particularly religious or spiritual person, but I think if you have negative thoughts and if you think about why it can't be done, that's going to overwhelm the possibility of what can be done. Now again, you know, the other thing is, you know, maybe you're set up for a disappointment because you're thinking you can do it and then you don't get the break.

And I don't know. Again, Dan, I go back to if I don't get that initial break, I might have been unbelievably disappointed. I don't know. I don't know what I... Maybe I would have done something else in this business, but I got the break of breaks and it led to all these great things. And that's where the luck comes in. And you're going to need some luck. And I tell these kids too, I said, you know, it helps to have a rabbit's foot in your pocket. But think that it's going to be there.

You have to. And don't keep thinking about what you can't do. Think about what you can do. Where did that develop just a general positivity there? Because there's plenty of cynicism in this business. There are plenty of unhappy people who arrive at success and aren't grateful for it.

Probably I was too young to think negatively when I started thinking this way. So I always thought this way. You've always been a generally positive person. Always, always, yeah. Was that in your home? Yeah, I would say so, yeah. Yeah, I would say so. Yeah. I was encouraged and again I had very, very smart parents who

encouraged me and lifted me and all of that and so that was huge. And was it hard when you lose your father when he's 38 to remain positive? Terrible. Well no, at that point no, but at that point, you know, I'd already been established myself as 1983, had already done a lot of things and, you know, done the World Series and Lake Placid and all. He got to see a lot of my success. Yeah, it was just devastating to lose somebody, you know, when he was 56 years old and I'm

38 years old. And I fell for my siblings too. You know, my younger brother and my sister is 13 years younger than me too, so they didn't get the full Jay Michaels. But you feel a gratitude about, oh, he got to see all the things. No question. He got to see that I had, well, but you arrived at all of it, so many successes before 40 years old, so he got to, so there was the shared part of that. No question.

And that's, you know, in my heart to this day, thank God. When we talk about age and people are asking you about retirement and you're saying I'm not a particularly religious or spiritual person but you're talking to your friends about mortality. What is it that you wake up with that inspires you, that pushes you to new places that make you feel most alive? Well, number one, I don't dwell on the age part of it. I don't dwell on mortality. I did it when I was younger.

Sure did. You know, again, as we discussed earlier, going back to, you know, in my 20s, I think I'm going to die at 40. Here I am, double it. So I just kind of like, I don't know, maybe it's just a mindset of living in the moment, living today, living today. Not yesterday, not tomorrow, today. And that's what I try to do as best I can.

Where'd you learn it though? Because it's such a, I know people hear this all the time about presence, but I'm telling you that this is something that it took the death of my brother, the greatest pain I've known to sort of awaken in me an alertness that you're articulating and philosophers, Eckhart Tolle will tell you if you live in the future you're living in something that doesn't happen, that people that fear and regret are the two poisons. Looking back at regret, looking forward that they're the two poisons because they keep you from now. Darrell Bock I don't know where I learned it.

It had to evolve through the years. I've kind of always been this way. So … Rich McNeese But you don't do much regret then. Like they're not places along the path where you're like, oh, I could have done that. So minimal is to be infinitesimal. Yeah. What a charmed existence, Al.

No, it's great. Congratulations. I want to salute you for seeming to have found genuine happiness and gratitude in life. It's a conquering success story all around. You're treating me like Joel Osteen now or something. Well, I'm just, I'm happy. If you're coming in here saying I love what I do, I still have passion, I'm present,

I've simplified my life. It's been, I don't know how much joy there is in the doing because that's gotten in the way for me. I've been somebody who aspires and tries to get, and if you're trying to get ahead sometimes, you can get ahead of yourself, and all of a sudden joy gets lost in that transaction. It doesn't seem like you're carrying yourself like that. No. I mean, look, not everything has been smooth sailing. I mean, there have been bumps and you know, swales along the way. Nothing gigantic, but it's like, okay, let's just move, just

keep sailing. You know, it's like, you know, you're on a plane and there's turbulence, you've got to come out of it and the skies are going to be clear. And I, you know, I try to keep that mindset. I think that's important. Just otherwise you sit there and you're wallowing in nonsense and ugh, and it's no good for your health either. It's no. No, but if, I don't know whether you do anything in the way of breathing, exercises, or meditation, but the mind can be a poison, and the idea that your mind is something that gives you the illusion of control, it's something I struggle with. I try to slow it down and I struggle with it all the time.

Yeah, it's, hey, life its own self is Dan Jenkins. It's, you know, you talked about, you know, emotions and regrets and all of that. You know, to me the most poison, not, I shouldn't say the most, but something that's so bad is jealousy. People are so jealous these days. Maybe through time immemorial, I guess it's been probably the same way. That can kill you too. Yeah, look at what he's got.

Yeah, it's a mental health struggle. Right. Why don't I have this? Oh boy, no. Yeah, you don a mental health struggle, uh-huh. Right. They've got, why don't I have this? Oh boy, no. Yeah, you don't find yourself wanting any of those things. No, fortunately no. And if you start to go that way, forget about it, man. Just appreciate your existence from there.

That's how I look at it. Last question. Sure. Outside of your family, the most substantive relationship with a partner that you have had in broadcasting understanding that I'm asking you to make one decision not to the neglect of anybody else but I'm asking you the one most meaningful partnership that you've had. Well this has to be a it's got to be a tie really the day I'd love to be able to tell you this but

I have had some incredible partners I mean we'll go back to Tim McCarver and Jim Palmer. A three-man booth is hard, very hard. That's the only one I've been in that I said we got the most. It was better as a three than as a two. So I had Jim and Tim. I go back to Ken Dryden. That's a one-off 1980 Olympics and we did 84 and 88 as well. Frank Gifford and Dan Dierdorf had it. We had a wonderful time, 11 years together. I go to John Madden, seven years.

Chris Collinsworth is like a brother to me, like a brother. 13 years with Chris, still going strong, he's great. And I've developed in three years with Kirk Herbstreet, it's gone by real fast. I've been very, very fortunate because I've had these fantastic partners and so I've been very lucky in that regard. I've also had a couple of really famous partners. I had Bruce Jenner and I had O.J. Simpson. Now we're going into a completely different realm. But just through my career, I think I listed,

one time I had over 100 different partners. Because I did things like motorcycles on ice, did a lot of auto racing with Jackie Stewart, the Wee Scott, and diving with Ken Sitzberger, and all crazy stuff. Basketball, Doc Rivers would be another guy, Doc and I only worked together that one. But to be clear, the tie is Bruce Jenner

and OJ Simpson, right? Like that's the tie? Well, they're kind of like any very separate cat. I asked you to pick one and you gave me the whole resume, which I'm grateful for, by the way. For those who do not know, it is a resplendent tapestry of a career. It's incredible.

But the tie was, I still don't understand, the tie in partnership, yet no one's going to be offended because I'm badgering you. I know you are. The closest relationships, the two closest. So the longest was with Chris Collinsworth. So you've got 13 years, fantastic. And again, John Madden, Collinsworth. So you know, 13 years, fantastic. And again, John Madden, seven years, so twice as long. McCarver and Palmer and I, I think off and on because we lost the rights

and we got them back, you know, probably seven years. You know what? Unfair of me. You gave everyone the credit. You did it right, I'm doing it wrong. Chris has been the longest marriage or whatever. No, fun, pain in the ass. Fun, pain, that's why everyone likes you and not everyone likes me. I'm not sure about that. Al, everyone likes Al Michaels.

I don't know. Thank you, sir, I appreciate the time. Hey, this was great, I really enjoyed this. As did I. Man, this is like going to therapy. Yeah, we should do it again. Let's do it again, let me in there deeper. It's hard to get booked by you though.

You don't have an assistant. You don't have someone. We've got to reach you directly. Pony Express, no problem. Thanks, man. Thank you, buddy. Pony Express. Pony Express.

Pony Express. Pony Express. Pony Express. Pony Express. Pony Express. Pony Express. Pony Express. Pony Express.

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