The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - South Beach Sessions - Chris Parnell

Episode Date: November 28, 2024

Chris Parnell has a voice made of liquid gold and comedy timing you can set your watch to... which has earned him legendary status at two comedy institutions - The Groundlings and 'Saturday Night Live' - both celebrating their 50th anniversary this year. Known as "The Iceman" during his eight seasons on SNL (because he never broke character, not even during the classic Christopher Walken “More Cowbell” sketch), Chris reminisces about his comedy career with Dan-- the amazing early Groundlings moments, the wild world of SNL afterparties, working with fellow greats Will Ferrell, Tim Meadows, and he reveals a few regrets from his time on comedy's biggest stage. Chris also opens up to Dan about how his religious upbringing shaped him, his family legacy of speaking in front of a microphone, and the weight of wrestling for years with the idea of contacting his biological parents for the first time. SNL's three-hour live 50th anniversary primetime special airs Sunday, February 16th, on NBC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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SAB, the CV. Copyright 2024. Proximo. Jersey City, New Jersey. Please drink responsibly. Hello and welcome to South Beach Sessions. Look, we've got velvety couches, we brought in bigger star power. This is very exciting. We're celebrating here in Los Angeles 50 years with two comedy institutions that this man

has a legendary status at both of them, the Groundlings Theatre in Los Angeles, Sketch Comedy and Improv, and Saturday Night Live, both celebrating their 50th anniversary, Saturday Night Live in February with a three-hour primetime special. So thank you Chris for making the time for us. Thanks for having me Dan. I want to probe your biography but you have to have all the good stories though. You have to be, you have worked with so many interesting people in a time in comedy that was so vibrant that I just, I simply don't even know where to begin with asking you about who you've enjoyed working with the most, who you've been awed by when you're in the presence of because comedy can be hard and

improv is so vulnerable. It's true. It's true. Um, you know, I, I, for me at the Groundlings, like, you know, I would go see shows while I was taking the classes. I moved here on New Year's Eve, going from 91 to 92, drove out with my buddy Matthew,

and by February, based on the advice of some friends, I started taking classes at the Groundlings. And so I would go see the shows and see the improv shows. So as I moved up and eventually got into the Sunday show and then the main show, I was getting to perform with these people, some of whom I'd been watching. So Michael McDonald was a big standout for me.

He just killed me. And then, you know, so get to perform with him in the main stage show and improvise, and that was delightful. But there were so many, obviously, talented people. But these are your formative years. So take me through how it is that you come, how you make the decision to try this without a safety net. To come to LA and do the whole thing?

To do the whole thing. Yeah, yeah. To choose this as a vocation, yeah. because it strikes me as one of the hardest ways to succeed in entertainment. Yeah. On your funny and on the expectation of funny. It is. Well, you know, I had a fortunate path. I started doing plays when I was in, I did my first one in seventh grade at Southern Baptist Educational Center. And then halfway through ninth grade, we moved to a suburb of Memphis called Germantown.

And I started going to Germantown High School, which as it turned out, had an extraordinary theater department with an amazing man named Frank Blustein who ran it in Sarah Savelle, who ran the music end of things. And also while I was there, the television studio got put into the high school.

So doing plays with Mr. Blustein, he, you know, after I'd done a few things and I sort of had a breakthrough with this play called The Diviners, where I felt like, oh, I think I understand what acting is now. You know, I just connected to the character. And he was intending to cast somebody else, this other very talented guy in the program.

But he's like, you know, I've got to give it to you. And so after that and a few other plays, I did a play called Greater Tuna with my friend Dan McCleary, where we each play like 10 different characters each, and these quick costume changes. And, you know, and that was, I guess that was my first sort of big onstage comedy thing, you know? And it, you know.

Funny's always a part of it. It's not like you're not aspiring necessarily to the thespian, or you are, you know what I mean? Like you're, are you always a part of it. It's not like, you're not aspiring necessarily to thespian or you are, you know what I mean? Like you're, are you, which part of it is calling you? The idea of being theatrical or the idea of being funny? Theatrical, being an actor. Yeah, that's what I started with.

And then, you know, it seemed like, oh well, this, you know, this greater tuna thing went well. And I mean, I'd always been a, in my much younger years, been a class clown, you know, wanted to make people laugh and get attention. I don't know how good at it I was. Your second grade teacher speaks ill of you. Oh man, she was, it's funny you mentioned her because she, she at one point stuffed paper in my mouth to keep me from talking. And my parents found out about that and I did not go to that school the next year. Well, weren't you always running afoul of specifically her?

It feels like that particular act was built up a great deal of resentment. That's the last act. That's not the first time you were talking too much. No, no, no. Well, every week we would put marks on the chalkboard and if you got three marks, you got sent to the principal's office. And I think I got sent every week except one or two, which would sometimes involve a paddling. And this was a different school. This was called Bethel Baptist. It sometimes would involve a paddling, but often, just stern warnings.

But it was all talking? It was all class clown stuff? It wasn't anything more sinister than that? No, no. I mean, I was a little Christian boy. So I was, other than the talking and cutting up and trying to make people laugh, I was kind of down the straight and narrow. But yeah, so then at Germantown I was doing these plays and I was trying to decide between

computer programming because I really liked my Apple 2 Plus computer that I got when I was 11, or the family got. And then Mr. Bluestein, who's still a friend of mine, he said, you know, if you want to do this for real, you could. Like, you know, if you want to do this for real, you could, like, you know, you got the chops for this. I was like, wow, okay, cool. And he recommended a school that a former student of his had gone to, North Carolina School of the Arts,

and I auditioned there and got in and went through there. And while I was there, it seemed that comedy was in fact, what I excelled at. And so, you know, I remember doing this restoration play called Man of Mode or Sir Fopley Flutter was the other title. And it was a, I did really well at it. I felt really at home and I got some great comments

from the Dean of the school, Malcolm Morrison at the time. And it, yeah, just became apparent as I went on that that was my, my strength. Well, in reading some of the stories about you, especially when you were there and succeeding, you were wearing a mask a couple of different times when you crushed it in, as you're getting the feedback and validation you need to continue

to pursue things. And I thought to myself in reading about that, to ask you, do you like, not just actually physically wearing a mask, but what is it that you like about the career that always lets you wear a mask? Well, you know, it's the transformation, I guess. You know, it's getting to be another person.

It's getting to pretend to be this other character. And, you know, I'm still trying to fully be myself for myself in my life, not performance-wise, and trying to be free. Because I think it comes from my Christian upbringing. I'm always wagging the finger at myself, like, you should be doing this, you should be doing this. And part of my work in therapy is to be free,

be free to be creative and do these other things. And it's harder to do that solo. If I've got a job and I know what the job is, I know what the script is and this and that, then I can focus on that and I know what the job is, I know what the script is and this and that, then that's, you know, I can focus on that and try to bring that to life. But the challenge is sort of living my life in a way that I'm, it's not,

I'm not being oppressive to myself. That is a great goal in therapy, freedom. Just the idea, I know I search for joy in it and one of the things that I'm always trying to, I've told people before, if I could get one thing out of therapy, it would be, I would go easier on myself. I would be more forgiving with myself.

That's exactly it. Yeah. That's, that's, that's a huge part of what I try to do in my work. But so why, this one is the place I'd like to explore. Like, why are you like that? Like why, why are you that hard on yourself? You put religion on it, religious upbringing as the start. Yeah. Well, I was a real believer. I went to Sunday school and church, and my parents were not like over the top religious fanatics, but they were believers. And they'd grown up in the top, you know, religious fanatics, but they were believers, you know, and they'd grown up in the church, Southern Baptist.

And, you know, I really, I guess I'm kind of a literal person. And so I, you know, I took it very seriously. I pray, I would ask for forgiveness, you know, anytime I did something that I felt like was a sin, and even into college, you know, I would still pray before my meals in the cafeteria. into college, you know, I would still pray before my meals in the cafeteria. So, I think I always felt watched by God, you know, and tried to live in a way that wouldn't piss him off. I mean, I didn't have sex till I was 24 because I feared the wrath of God.

That was the one thing that the Bible said, like, flee fornication. So, I allowed other experiences sexually, but not sex. So, I don't know. That's my sort of dime store appraisal of where that wagging, pointing finger comes from. Pete And how much progress or what kind of tools do you have on getting to something that feels closer to freedom and forgiving? Like what have you gotten from therapy? Because it's one thing to know what the roots of it are, but to leave there. The reason I advocate for therapy is I just tell people, why wouldn't if you trust somebody,

a good therapist, why wouldn't you give that person your vulnerabilities so they can then in turn give you some of the tools so that when you're walking you give that person your vulnerabilities so they can then in turn give you some of the tools so that when you're walking around without that person during the day, you could sort of self-love yourself? Yeah, well, it's a good question. I mean, the way my therapist works, you know, she has never at any point sort of pointed the blame to my religious upbringing.

I've talked about it with her. And she sort of, I think she agrees that like that's, that's a, you know, that's a legitimate explanation for why I tend to be like I am. But she's more about, you know, just working in the present and what, how I live my life, how I sort of experience the world. And it's, I mean, I think, you know,

I like the idea of having tools. I like the idea of specific things, things I need to work on. But for her, and I think she's right, it's about just a different way of experiencing my life in a way, at a certain level of awareness and a freeing up that has to happen deep inside. Um, that is not that, you know, and yes, I'll, sometimes I'll catch myself being hard on myself, you know? Um, and I was like, okay, you gotta let that go, let that go, let that go. But it's, it's, it takes so long.

It's so much work, you know, to get to a place where I can go easy on yourself. It takes so much conscious work. Oops, sorry. That's all right. It takes so much conscious work to just go easy on yourself. It does, it does. Because of the patterns of what you've learned, because of how it is that you've been shaped.

Yeah, it is. And also just to, you know, embrace being with my children, connecting with them and my wife, because it's so easy for me to have all these tasks in my head, these things that need to be accomplished, that do need to be happening at some point, house stuff and financial stuff and all those kind of things we have, auditions. But it's a, it's a, it's a different approach. For me, it's a, it's a radical approach to not be that way and just be like, oh, you

know what, why don't you go sit with Harry and just be with him for a bit or go sit with Damien, you know, and just. You would think perhaps, or someone who doesn't know the amount of work that goes into what it is that you do for a living, you would think that the laughter would be a balm that would make everything feel a little lighter than that. But if you're coming from a thespian's approach of I must be perfect or I must be, I must not stumble, I suppose you could get in your own way

on just allowing yourself to flow with laughter through a career that seems from over here like it would have been pretty fun the whole time. It's very true, it's very true. I have this reputation for never having broken on Saturday Night Live and I think, I mean for better and for worse, maybe. The Iceman, they called you the Iceman

because you're the only person that has the reputation of during a skit, during cowbell, this is the one guy who's not gonna fall apart. Yeah, I mean, I don't think, I don't think, you know, I'm definitely not the only cast member in the history of Saturday Night Live that didn't break or didn't, you know, tend to break or whatever. The Iceman, you're the Iceman.

No one else is the Iceman, you're the Iceman. Well, you know, I mean. More cowbell. You did not break during more cowbell. Every other actor on the set broke, correct? It was very hard. It was very hard. Christopher Walken did not break. So look at that. You're in good company. I am in good company. I am. But I just knew, you know, I mean, I knew I had to hold it together because otherwise it was, you know. It's interesting symbolically though, if you think about the question I just asked you

and your answer is some form of, yes, I'm famously rigid here. I'm not gonna let go with laughter because I must do the job correctly. Exactly. That will get in the way of joy, I suspect as well. It can, it can. And there are definitely parts of me, you know,

that thinks, wow, it might've been fun to let myself go a little bit, like Jimmy or Ray Show tended to do, or even Will or Molly or whoever. But I don't know, it was my approach. And I just looked at it like, I'm that character, I'm in that moment, it's not funny to them, and it helps sell the sketch better if I don't break, so. I don't mean to make you feel bad about it.

No, no, no, no. Your way of being was something that was, I mean, clearly fulfilling, right? Yeah, yeah. And resulted in success, so along your path, you realize now you're being saluted in college for what it is that you're doing.

And now what does the struggle look like after that to get to career success? Okay, so after college, I went down to the Alley Theater in Houston. I auditioned down there and got into their apprentice company. And I did that. I mean, I think it was a little bit of avoidance of going

straight to New York and trying to make my way there in the theater. But I thought, this is kind of a soft landing right after college. And it was great. And it was fun. I was very naive. I thought people were gonna see my work

in this apprentice company and they'd be like, okay, we want you in our main stage shows. And it just didn't happen that way. I mean, they didn't really have a company. They had a pool of actors they pulled from, but actors would come from all over, different regional theaters around the country. And that was gonna be my path.

I was gonna be a regional theater actor. But after the alley and I didn't get, how dare they not discover my greatness. But this is going, you're aspiring to, if I can make a living for the rest of my life as a regional theater actor, that will represent all of my dreams coming true. Yeah, I don't know if I had it defined quite that clearly.

And I think probably somewhere in there, the idea was to get to New York and do plays there. But I thought, you know, this would be a good life, you know? But I left there disenchanted, not anybody there's fault, obviously, except my own. And I went back to my old high school and taught high school for a year. Mr. Bluestain said, you know, do you want to come back

and teach? One of the other students had done it. And I just, I was like, yeah, you know what, why not? You know, I make a little money, not much, but a little money and- A little older than the kids you're teaching as well. Exactly, yeah. A feeling like you've failed

or feeling like you've gotten a step, stumbled? I think it was more about feeling a little lost, you know? I don't know that I really thought of it in terms of failure, having stumbled. Because I hadn't really given it a go, you know? All I'd done was the alley, and I'd done a little theater in the summers, but...

But you knew you didn't want to be a teacher, no? Or you didn't know this yet? Well, I didn't know it. It was not something I'd ever aspired to. And I found out pretty quickly that it was not for me. I was not ready to be an authority figure. I wasn't good at knowing how to maintain discipline and class. But I loved working with the kids who were involved with the theater

and TV programs like I had been when I was there because they were all serious about it and they were into it and they were doing good work and Mr. Bluestein still ran the program and Ms. Savelle. But I realized like, yeah, I'll do this for the year, but I do not have it in me. It takes a special person to be a teacher. You gotta have a giving soul. And I guess I don't have that in that way. I'm too selfish. Oh, it's a good thing to know about yourself.

I've learned after a year of this giving, it's not for me. It's not, it's a good thing to know about yourself. I've learned after a year of this giving, this giving it's not for me. It's not, it's not that way anyway, not putting myself up there in front of these kids. You know, there was a, in every class, it would be like a small group who were very into it, you know, and serious about it. Then there was at the other end of the spectrum,

a group of kids who are cut-ups and could care less. And then in the middle, there's the kind of whatevers, you know? So it was just hard to, I don't know, to put yourself out there in front of this room of high school students. It was a mix of 9th to 12th grade kids. And yeah. And also, I just realized, like, you know what?

If I'm going to be an actor, I've got to give it a shot. I've got to really either go to New York or LA. And it's, I knew some people in LA. I knew some friends from my high school days that had gone out here, and I knew some friends from college. And so I said, you know what, I'm gonna move out to LA and give it a go.

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Find your push. Find your power with Peloton at OnePeloton.com. Your voice is distracting because of how perfect it is. And it was hand-me-down, correct? You've done a lot of voice work, you've done famous voice work that we'll get to in a second,

but this was hand-me-down, correct? Because your father, he was a legendary radio personality, correct? Because your father was a legendary radio personality, correct? Known radio personality with pipes. He was, absolutely. In Memphis there at WHBQ. And yeah, he had an amazing voice. And after he left the disc jockey world, he had a recording studio with another former disc jockey, Skip Wilkerson, and they called it Wilkerson Parnell Sound Studios, and they they did voiceover work themselves, and they produced other people's stuff, other commercials and things, and if they needed the voice of a kid it would often

be my sister or myself doing that. And yeah, I think I definitely absorbed a lot from him vocally. The interesting thing maybe is that I'm adopted. So it wasn't a genetic hand-me-down, but I definitely, you know, I was born with something and then I definitely, I think, listening to his voice through my life made a difference. Yes. So I'd like to talk to you about if you've gotten, if you've dug in on some of the things that are formative about being adopted. Because yes, obviously it's not, it was hand me down, but because it was around you at all times, not because of anything biological. Right. I mean, I, you know, I've never met my birth father.

I would be surprised if he didn't have something of a voice himself, you know But yeah, my parents always made it very clear to my sister and me who was also adopted that we were adopted and It was from the angle of they chose us, you know they really wanted to have children and they went to the Tennessee Baptist children's home and and And the social worker they'd been in touch with said, we have this boy, you want to come see him? And I was little, I was like, I don't know, just six weeks old or something. And very luckily they adopted me and gave me a wonderful life and my sister.

And so I guess for me, the deep dive on that subject is when I was 25, the laws of the state of Tennessee allow you to seek out your birth parents at that point. So they do a thing where they sort of try to get in touch with them. Sometimes they don't find them, and they just say, OK, we couldn't find them. Here's the information we have on them.

They did find them them and my birth mother did not want any contact. The interesting thing was, was that they sent, I don't know how deliberate it was, but they sent me all the sort of the records of the correspondence they'd had with her, which included her driver's license, a copy of her driver's license.

So I kind of knew what, I knew what she looked like based on this black and white copy. And they got in touch with my birth father and he said he would be open to contact and provided his phone number, but to definitely not contact the birth mother that they were not together anymore. And I mean, that was illegitimate.

And I thought about it many times. And I thought about it many times. I've thought about it many times. I've lost both my dad and my mom now. And my mom passed away in early April. And so I've had the flickering thought, like, well, is now an okay time to try to reach out to him, my birth father. But I don't know.

You know, it's... out to him, my birth father, but I don't know. I'm curious about whose genes I got and where I came from genetically, biologically, but on the other hand, that could be a whole can of worms. I don't know what this man's life is. I think I found him online, I think. But, you know, it's just... I've got my wife and my kids, I got my sister, I got my friends. It's like, do I need to open up that?

You know? So, I've just sort of been... I haven't chosen to make that plunge. Sounds like you've been wrestling with it, though, for years. I have. That it's something that you're... it's calling you, it would appear, it hasn't silenced. No, no, it's like, can I live not ever having known that person or those people? So I've, you know, I've sort of toyed with the idea of hiring a private investigator to just find out things about them.

Instead of finding out by asking questions of your father because you could. Yes, because even though I'm not a big celebrity, I'm a minor celebrity and what do I pretend that I'm not a big celebrity, I'm a minor celebrity. And, you know, what do I pretend that I'm not? Do they know who I am from that angle? What does that mean? What if they need money? Do they think I have money? And, you know, I spoke to a friend who was a writer at SNL,

and he had sought out his birth parents, and it didn't turn out well for him. I mean, it didn't ruin his life, but it just was like, no, no, no, I can't go there. So that was a cautionary tale that informed me for sure. There's fear in it for you, because, and forgive me, I'll leave this line of questioning in a second, but when your mother says she doesn't want contact,

I don't know how that one lands, and then your mother says she doesn't want contact, I don't know how that one lands. And then your father says he's good with it, but how many years removed are we now? I wasn't doing the math of like, you've had that, you've been holding on to the decision of whether to reach out for him, to him for how many years? Um, I mean, I was 25, I'm 57 now. It's super interesting to hold on to something

like that for that long and to wrestle and to still, as we sit here, not feel like you have an answer and should I do this? Yeah, no, it's true. It's true, you know, it's usually way in the background. So it's only something that comes up in my mind like, oh yeah, there's that thing. Should I do anything about that? Do I want to?

Do I care enough to? Will I be okay eventually dying without ever having known who those people were? And I think the answer is yes, because I have my parents, you know, I had my parents, they passed away and I had a whole life with them, you know, and I couldn't have asked for better parents, you know, so do I need to seek that out? I don't know. It's almost a scientific curiosity in a way, you know, so do I need to seek that out? What do I don't know? I don't know. It's sort of, it's almost a scientific curiosity in a way.

You know? I don't know what kind of more there are morsels. I can understand where there would be fear around them, but there will also be just endless curiosities about, about, you know, what was it? What we give me, give me some information about how my path could have been different. Just curiosity.

Sure. Yeah. Well, I mean, I know the basics of how they came together. Like he was in the Navy, and I don't know how they met exactly, but she got pregnant. He offered to marry her, and then his family advised him not to do that. And I think I assumed she was, you know, a young Baptist woman. And so I think she was based in Nashville. And I assume she was a young Baptist woman. And so I think she was based in Nashville and she went down to the Tennessee Baptist Children's Home, sort of my take is to be out of sight, to have this child and then sort of brush it under

and carry on with her life. And I don't fault her for that. She wasn't planning to get pregnant, I assume. And I suspect my life turned out better. I was with parents who really wanted me. And you can't beat that. Do you think that the reason you chose the professional path you did is because of what your your adopted father was

doing professionally. You're surrounded by, it's not just the feedback of I'm performing in some of these commercials, he's going home every day and this is what he does. He's this magical voice who people know. I'm sure it did, but you know what he was doing wasn't acting, really. He wasn't doing like animation. He was doing voices for animated characters. But he's doing performing. He's performing.

He's definitely performing. And sometimes he would have to do sort of charactery voices, but he would put on his southern dialect for certain characters and things. And I'm sure it affected me. I mean, my memory of how I sort of thought, oh, I think I want to do that, it was two things. The first one is questionable.

When I was very young, I loved Charlie's Angels, I had a crush on Farrah Fossett, she was my first celebrity crush, and I remember having the thought process of like, how would one go about being around beautiful women like that? That's a fine reasoning, yes. You know, it's primitive, but you know, yeah.

Yes, it's a calling. Yeah, and so I thought, huh, if I were an actor, I mean, if I'd been smarter, I thought if I were a director, producer, but I thought if I were an actor, I mean, if I'd been smarter, I thought if I were a director or producer, but I thought if I were an actor, I might be able to work with women like this. It wasn't until years later, and I got my yearbook at SBC,

and I noticed my friend Tiger Hale was in, had done this school play that I was completely unaware was happening, there, didn't know anything about it. Or he was in the drama club, I guess was what it was. I thought, oh, I want to do that. I want to be in the drama club. And we had a new teacher, Gay Forbus was her name.

She came in to teach English and she also started doing some plays. So I auditioned for it. And I don't know, I just, I enjoyed that. I enjoyed the performing. All A season is here guys. Are you going to get a lot of shopping done this week in Black Friday is coming up that you need to score some deals. How about you pick up some touchdowns? They're on sale all week at DraftKings Sportsbook. DraftKings has door buster profit boosts and bet one get one promotions on all

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That it's the week of Saturday Night Live from everything I've read in oral histories or everything else will fry every young person who's ever worked there. Yeah, I mean, it's hard. I mean, I was very lucky in that people wanted to put me in their sketches, you know, not a ton, but as it went on, you know, they knew what I could bring to the table. And for me, the biggest struggle was the writing. I had written at the Groundlings with some success,

but what I'd written at the Groundlings that I felt the best at were monologues. Finding this character and speaking of that character's voice. And then writing scenes was always, which I did at the Groundlings, but it was always more challenging for me. And then when I got to SNL, I did, I found writers that I did like

to work with. And, but I just always was very insecure about my ability to have an eye to find an idea and write it into a sketch. And I mean, my, my regret, I guess, about SNL was that I didn't have more confidence, you know, that I wasn't bolder and didn't have the same sort of sense of freedom that I'm still seeking out creatively. Because I, you know, I feel it was a good SNL experience for the most part. Getting fired was heartbreaking. Thankfully, I got hired back.

But it really shook my confidence again. I started to feel like I got my legs under me. And then, oh no, you're gone. Lauren's not bringing you back. And I was like, oh, fuck. That's my whole identity was kind of built around the idea that I'm a Saturday Night Live cast member. And I had this big break.

And now, OK, now what do I do? And, you know, eventually they brought me back. I heard from Will Ferrell pretty early on that the door wasn't completely shut. And so there was this, a lot of like, Lauren might be bringing you back and this and that. And I eventually told my manager at the time, I was like, I don't want to hear about any more of those maybes. I'd love to go back if they want to bring me back, great.

But I've got to settle back to my life in LA. And then, of course, after I'd done that, is when they brought me back. But yeah, it was a roller coaster, lots of ups and downs. You could have a good dress rehearsal and then have a lot of pieces get cut and not have a great air show in terms of just your presence on the show.

But it was amazing. I mean, it was, I'm talking about my struggles with it, but overall it was extraordinary. When I left ESPN and I'm older, I'm 50 years old, but you're on television as part of a thing and part of my identity collapsed in that. And there was wounding in not thinking that that was going to happen to me because I was an older man. You're still, you're, I can understand how that would wreck you. Like that would be a very hard thing. And then put on top of it, whatever it is that comes with, you know,

and I don't want to go too much deep on the pop psychology here, but my father had an episode when he was rejected by a boss late in life that triggered some stuff that came from feeling rejected by his own mother. So God knows how it is that if your identity is wrapped up in this thing and then they tell you you're not good enough, what that creates? Yes. You know, part of what kept me from sinking too far down was the outpouring of love, support, and surprise from my fellow cast members and some of the writers

who just also were blindsided by it. And I knew because of the way they were reaching out and what was being said, like that they were sincere. So it made me feel like, oh, I'm not the only one who is completely surprised by this. A lot of other people were too. So that made me feel like, all right, OK. So I'm not wrong to continue believing somewhat in myself.

And that helped a lot lot that made a big difference You know well your peers or you're getting you're getting the respect and the love of your peers and they are booing you that must feel good You're but you're still without a job and wondering whether they're gonna take you back. Yeah. Yeah And you know, I just thought well, hopefully I can know, get back into the sitcom lane and do that. And I think somebody kindly threw me a job on Friends. You know, I got a guest star part on that. And, but yeah, yeah. So when I finally heard that they were going to bring me back,

I was like, great, you know, I don't want to burn a bridge with Lorne. I want to go back. I wasn't done. I had more to do. And thankfully, I got to. Not too many people get to do that. What do you regard, you've done a lot of stuff, 30 Rock, Rick and Morty.

What do you regard as the most fun? Just the thing that you were doing, that while you were doing it, was simply the most enjoyable. It doesn't even have to be any of the big ones. It could have been a different time in your life. Could have been local theater, for all I know. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, it's hard to, hmm, that's a tough one.

Doing the Sunday show at the Groundlings was a pretty amazing time. Because we're all kind of hungry, and we're writing a lot and very creative. And it was just such a fun bunch. I mean, I'm still in touch with some, a number of people from that time. We get together periodically.

So that was pretty amazing. My high school time was really fun. It's hard to beat that. The young stuff. So the stuff when you're still just dreaming and the business parts of it are not the things that you're thinking about or feeling. Right, yeah, it's true, it's true. But doing SNL was a lot of fun in a lot of ways, you know?

I mean, it was amazing. Anchorman was a lot of fun. So yeah, I mean, there have been a lot of fun things. And I love that I got to do SNL. I loved being there while I was there. It wasn't easy, but it was fun, you know? How about Archer? Yeah, I mean, I, you know...

140 episodes, 14 seasons? 14 seasons, yeah, yeah. I mean, I feel so lucky and grateful for that. To have been a part of that for so long, it was very, a big bummer when it ended, because we thought we had at least a couple more seasons to go. But you know, we record that separately. We always recorded it separately, as we do Rick and Morty. Oh, you like the communal stuff.

Well, I do like recording separately. It's much more efficient. I can focus on what I'm doing. But we would get to see each other at Comic-Con and other events and things like that, which I love, because we like each other, you know? And it was fun to have that, and same with Rick and Morty. But if I had to pick, I prefer doing on camera just because of being with other people.

It's better for me in voiceover to not. And here's what it comes down to is if you and I are doing voiceover and we've got a script, the script's not gonna be memorized because we've got it there to read. So for me, it's like this thing of like, well, do I just focus on my lines in the script here? Or is this other actor expecting me to make eye contact and connect with him this way, physically in the booth?

And it's like, it's too much for my brain. You like, but you like what you feel in the collaboration of creating, right? But I mean that is the sweet spot, is it not? In terms of working with others and enjoying your work. Like obviously you wanna feel good about what it is that you've done, but working with people that you like and respect who can surprise you and then bring out something in you because they know you a little bit,

I would think that that would be the sweet spot. Absolutely, absolutely. And make me laugh, you know. And Saturday Night Live was that, because Anchorman, I can imagine that you guys were, I can imagine Anchorman, just from what was on screen, that a lot of stuff was cut because probably people couldn't keep it together the way that they needed to.

Well, yeah, and I mean also, it was just such an embarrassment of Rich's. I mean, especially, I mean, you know, they made a. Well, yeah, and I mean, also it was just such an embarrassment of Rich's, I mean, especially, I mean, you know, they made a second movie, they made another movie with, based on outtakes of that and another ending they shot. But yeah, Will just, I mean, so much incredible stuff coming out of his mouth at the news desk.

And then stuff that Adam, MacKay would throw into everybody, you know, to say, and yeah, that was pretty special. Who were some of the people you've worked with where you just sort of stand in awe at what it is that's unspooling from their mind? I mean, Will is the big one, I mean, for sure. Just so extraordinary. And I got to see, I didn't get to work with him,

but I got to see Phil Hartman do an improv show with the Groundlings. This is after his SNL time. And oh my God, I was just, oh God, you are as brilliant doing scripted stuff. You're as brilliant doing improvised stuff as you are doing scripted stuff. I mean, just amazing.

I was just in awe. But I got to work with so many amazing people at SNL, you know, I mean, Molly and Sherry and Kattan and tomatoes and Darrell and Tracy Morgan. And then, then all the people who came, you know, drat, I mean, I, you know, I'm going to stop naming people cause I'm going to miss so many, but oh my God, so many amazing people. Did you partake in the famous after parties? Were you raging until five o'clock in the morning with an out-of-control life blowing off steam from, you know, what

that work week is like? Because people don't understand what that work week is like, correct? They couldn't possibly understand that. No, I mean there are probably some parallel levels of intensity in other jobs, but yeah, unless you've been there, you can't really know that. And yes, I did go to the after parties. I think I went to every after party, pretty much. I don't know how hard I raged then,

but because by that time, I sort of, I had a pretty good sense of what I could take in alcohol wise, and I didn't want to be sick, but I certainly enjoyed myself. And then yeah, for many, many years I'd also go to the after after party and walk home at 7 a.m. you know, and then as I got further along and I had a girlfriend and I was like, well, I don't need to go to the after after party anymore, you know. You're very responsible, I feel like.

I feel like I could identify you as responsible and meticulous. I try to be, I try to be, for better and for worse. And that you care deeply about what it is that you're doing, and so I'm guessing that you probably prepare it to death, that you get great comfort in having the security of, no, I've got very much down what I need to have down

so that what I'm executing is just a lifetime of experience. I try to, I try to. Yeah, I would always get my scripts on Wednesday on the day the table reads beforehand and make sure I read through all the sketches that I was in. Sometimes a writer would have come to me and said, hey, I put you in this, it's this kind of a thing.

And I'd be like, okay, okay. But I always wanted to read them before the table read started because I just like, I don't want to cold read all this, you know? And it helped a lot. You know, I think people, the writers and other cast members but realized that I took it seriously and I was gonna try to be as prepared as I could be for to deliver their material on Wednesday

to the best of my ability, you know, and not just sort of wing it, you know. But that gets in the way of improv, does it not? Or, because I would think improv is the freest of the forms, but also scariest, because you don't have the comfort of safety nets and you're just out there. No, you're absolutely right.

I mean, improv was not much of a thing at SNL. Improvising did happen, but basically you have to do a show where the camera knows where to cut and if somebody improvises something, it's like the camera might not be on you. But yes, this will illustrate what you just said. I have an improvised live on stage, I don't think since I got on Saturday Night Live.

So yeah, I was thinking of Groundlings and what it is that they did in both sketch comedy and improvisation. So I was thinking that the early parts of your career that you would have access to improv and probably not like it all that much because you couldn't really that it would be hard to control right i'd be scared of improv i would find it i'd need

can i have some crutches please some crutches give me something so i'm just not out there naked well the good thing about going through a program like the groundlings is is you you get do get a lot of tools you know you learn how to make an improv work and and so you do know that i can i can do space work to start it off. Usually there'll be some suggestion from the audience, you know, so you're, you're building a scene on that. There'll be space work. There'll be emotional reactions. There'll be character choices. There'll be what the other actor or actors on stage are giving you.

So it's not, it's not just in a vacuum. Once you have sort of those, that framework to work from. And certainly, you know, it still comes up that there is an expectation to improvise in movies, you know, and I have to always remember to, I mean, my way of dealing with that is usually to write some material and to try to make sure I've got some alts, you know, to got some things to add if they want it and there's a good chance they will because it's probably a comedy

and they know I'm a comedy guy. So, you know, I have to try to prepare that way. I would think that Anchorman had a decent amount of improv. It did, it did. My whole poop mouth speech after a certain point, after I came in and said the lines and then I realized Adam was not cutting. He wasn't yelling cut, and I was like,

oh yeah, he wants me to keep going. So that's what came out, the whole disappointment with Ron. I would think that that would be very freeing though. Like if you're someone who is in perpetual pursuit of freedom, I would think that there would be some great freedom in being in front of people on a stage where you have learned maximum

respect over your life to respect the stage and also no script, no nothing, I'm going to be free here, free to be my funniest self. Yeah, and it's true. You're absolutely right. And when I was doing it regularly, I was pretty good at it, you know? And then once I got on SNL, I felt like, oh, there's gonna be too much of an expectation if I go back on stage to improvise at the Groundlings.

They're gonna be like, oh, this is what this SNL guy can bring. I was too intimidated by it. Really? Yeah. And also I felt like I'd gotten rusty because I hadn't done any improv in my time at SNL really. So.

You didn't say with any degree of remorse when you said it, I don't think I've done improv since I started at SNL, right? Like there wasn't, there wasn't any longing in your voice when you said that or even discovery, right? Or was there some discovery in the idea of I haven't used this difficult heavy tool in a while that's also freeing? No, I'm, I'm fully aware of it. And I guess because I don't feel in shape to do it, it doesn't present itself as this freeing opportunity. Now, I do also have this take

on it where like, as I get older, like I will just not give as much of a hoot about how it goes or what people think and I'll just get up there and do it. And to that end, my friend Brian Palermo has done this kid show at the Groundlings periodically over the years and he called me a couple of weeks ago to see if I would do the show. And it will involve some improv and it'll involve me writing a sketch and hopefully

my older son will be able to come and see the show because he takes an improv class and he has some aspirations, you know. But I was like, you know what? I'm just going to say yes to this. It's going to be mostly families with kids out there so the stakes are pretty low. So yeah, we'll see how it goes. Do you want it for him? Like, do you, are there any warnings that you're offering, uh, when, when he, uh, goes down this

path a little bit? Well, you know, he's 10, so I, uh, it's a little early, it's a little early. Yeah. And you know, we definitely don't want him to be a child actor. Um, so yeah, he's, he's, he takes this after school improv class and seems to enjoy it, you know?

And his- You're putting him in a class early for it though. You're giving him the scent early. Like- Well, he wanted to do it, you know? It wasn't like something that we were pushing on him. You know, he wanted to, and he has definitely a good sense of humor and he's creative, you know, he's

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restrictions apply. New customers only. Opt-in required. Casino credits are non-withdrawable and expire in 168 hours. Terms at casino.draftkings.com slash promos. Saturday Night Live, you learned what from that experience? It's a broad question, but what would you say that you learned? I mean, it's fun doing live TV. You don't get to do that hardly ever. It's fun getting to be around those people. You know, it was like an extended college.

I don't know. I think I just learned to be better at doing that. You know, I learned to be better at doing scenes, being comfortable in front of an audience and live television. I learned to maybe more after the fact to believe in myself more. And I was able to look back and say, hey, I did some pretty good stuff there, you know?

And appreciate that, you know? And so on some level, it's like about appreciating myself and what I brought to it. And also just being part of that SNL family. But it sounds like the way you're articulating it, it sounds like you learned to love yourself at least a little bit better if somehow you got more confident and escaped some of your insecurities. Like, if you got, if you felt better about who you were

because the identity crushing of everything that happened in the middle of that, and then you get to the end of it and you're a stronger person who feels more confident, you're taking care of yourself better. Yeah, I think so. I think so. It wasn't, it wasn't so clear cut at the time, but it's more of a suffering at the time, right? Yeah. In some ways. Insecurity is a crippler. Like, well, I don't know how art has healed you here. I don't, you'd have to help me there.

Because insecurity, a lot of people get into funny and get into acting because they're, whatever, they're trying to squeeze light out of insecurities. Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, when it's going well, it's so rewarding. When I shoot a scene that I feel like my work was good in that, you know? And I brought it acting-wise and comedically,

if that was what was called for, that's very satisfying. And then to ultimately get to watch it, which can be hard, but to see it and be like, okay, yeah, you know, that was pretty good, you know, or to hear it in a voiceover recording, you know, that's rewarding. And just, you know, it's just fun to be on set with other people, you know, especially comedy people, you know.

I have occasionally auditioned for like procedural, like a CSI kind of thing. And you know, like, look, I would be very lucky to have a show like that that I'm on. But at the same time, it's like, that would not be my first choice. I would much rather do a sitcom, you know, where we're trying to be funny

and make the audience laugh, make each other laugh, and not just reciting these cold hard facts and all of that. You must have some Alec Baldwin stories for us. Like I've, at 30 Rock, I have thought of him as legitimately comedian funny over the years. Not act, like I know a lot of actors are funny, but he struck me as somebody who could have just been a straight comedian, and just by turning up the volume on who he actually is from eight to 10.

Yeah, that's probably true, that's probably true. I mean, well, you know, he had hosted several times while I was on the show, and I knew, and I'd seen him before I got on the show and knew how funny he could be. And then at 30 Rock, what I sort of came to appreciate more about Alec was just what a master craftsman he is.

Just how fully aware he is of where the cameras are and what's being shot and how we should shoot it and yeah. Not craftsman, what you just did there. Not craftsman like. You were trying to illustrate for us, theatrically, what the opposite of being a craftsman is. Thank you, I didn't know if you'd pick up on that, Dan. But yes, thank you, I was trying to show,

this is not what Alec Baldwin would do as I banged the microphone. But you're saying he's a sculptor and he, I mean, obviously he's got a lifetime of experiences, but I also think of him as just wildly funny and it's something that I wouldn't have seen back at Glen Gary Glen Ross. No, no, yeah.

Well you know he's not, I don't remember him being like a, you know, a guy with quips and cut ups and things like that. I mean he's kind of, I guess I think a little more like me in some ways, that he's a little more, has this certain demeanor to him that's not like Mr. Comedy, you know, or anything like that. And then, like you said, when he wants to turn it up, you know, it's there for sure.

I loved how you illustrated Mr. Comedy. Like, that guy's the life of a party, that guy walks in. It sounds like you have a very crafted, some of the ways that you're describing the doing of comedy, I'm not gonna say formulaic, but it's like you know, because I really don't mean it that way. I mean like you have the tools on how it is

that I can do this, this, and this to make you laugh because I've perfected the art of cadence, of tone, I can make it song and I have sharpened something so that I can present it to you in a way that is, I know it's going to work. I know it's going to be funny. I don't know about that. No? No, no, you don't ever know it's going to work, you know?

I mean, I definitely learned that at SNL. I mean, there was a sketch I co-wrote with some folks, a morning zoo crew sketch, and it killed us, writing it and rehearsing it. We did it at dress rehearsal, and it was crickets. I mean, it was nothing. And you knew it was gonna work, and it didn't work. Exactly, exactly. I would think that your barometer would be so good

at this point, so expert that you would know that when you think something's funny, it's going to be funny. No, no, comedy's too particular, you know? And it's too dependent on what the frame of reference is for each individual and the group that's watching it and what they bring to it and like, do they, maybe they enjoy morning zoo crews that are wacky and

crazy and they're like, well, what are they making fun of? You know? You never know. I mean, it's just, it's so particular with, with what a person or an audience is going to find funny. What have you found most fulfilling or rewarding about the work that you do? Let's see. What's most rewarding is when I feel appreciated, when I feel like the people who are making the project appreciate what I bring to it and they trust me with it. Like I did this little part in the series Fallout and it was just an offer. And I was like, wow, okay, because I could tell, oh, these are big important TV making folks who are involved with this. Very respected and they wanted me to do this part. So I'm like, okay, great.

And you know, I didn't get a lot of direction. I just said, this is how I'm thinking of the guy. And they were kind of like, yeah, yeah, that's kind of it. And I did it and I felt good about it. And you know, and I was very happy to get to be a little part of such a cool show. So that was very satisfying, you know. Is there a lot of fulfillment in the work?

Like is there, when you talk about doing some of the voice work, for example, it seems like it could be a little repetitive, a little lonely, even in the parts that might be funny. Well, with the voice work, it is about, for me, just trying to just act it well. I know it sounds like obvious in a way, but it's just to like really be present

as that character seeing the scene in my mind's eye and trying to react to things as that character would and speak the way he would without falling into the habit of just like doing a vocal dance, you know, and like this is how it sounds. Now, I definitely try to vary the takes, you know, and bring different things to it, but ideally I'm doing that from the point of view of sort of a different frame of mind of how he would say it, as opposed to just, you know, changing my vocal cadence or pitches and that kind of stuff. I'm going to thank you for your time.

Now I don't know if you've noticed it on my forehead gathering, but I'm beginning to sweat profusely. I had too much to drink with your friend, Adam McKay last night, and it is pouring out now. So on this note, I'm gonna say thank you for your time and sink deeply into my shame. You can see how much I'm sweating, right? Everyone can see how much I'm sweating shame. You can see how much I'm sweating, right?

Everyone can see how much I'm sweating. You can't see how much I'm sweating. I could legitimately do, should I do this? I don't think that I should do this. It's a lot. I didn't notice it until you said it. Okay, well, you're very kind. You're an unusually kind person.

It's true. Thank you for being on with us. I appreciate it. Thanks so much for having me, Dan. I really appreciate it. Thanks so much for having me Dan, I really enjoyed it.