The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - South Beach Sessions - Joy Taylor

Episode Date: November 3, 2023

Joy Taylor is a beacon of strength. In this emotionally charged and moving heart-to-heart, Joy shares the moments that tested her spirit and the lessons that propelled her to rise above adversity and find purpose in the face of challenges. Together, with candor and vulnerability, they uncover the profound connections that bind them as Joy reveals to Dan the pivotal role that Dan's brother, David "Lebo" Le Batard, played in shaping her path. Through tears and laughter, this is a powerful testament that even in our darkest moments, there is light and love in the cosmos that remain with us forever. Join The Joy Taylor Foundation in their mission to serve the homeless, survivors of domestic violence and promote education and youth empowerment in the communities of Los Angeles, Miami, Pittsburgh and NYC.​ To show your support or make a contribution, visit www.joytaylorfoundation.com Watch SPEAK with Joy Taylor on FS1, weekdays at 4:30PM ET. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to South Beach sessions joined by an old friend. I need to rephrase that. A young friend who I've known for a long time, Joy Taylor, watched her ascent from Miami and I don't think I've ever told her this before. You can catch her on a show called Speak on FS1, but I want to tell her now because I have an idea of how hard your path was because I saw some of it, but I can't possibly know how hard your path really was and I just wanted you to know. I hope you felt this off of me

but I've not said it to you. How proud I am having seen your rise through the media ranks because I don't think people can understand the difficulties of what you have to endure and how strong you had to be to carve your way through the thicket of cavemen that tend to be pretty hostile if you get a sports opinion. If you have the audacity to get a sports opinion wrong. Well, thank you, Dan. And I know you will not accept this, but because I know you well enough to know, but you played a massive role in that.

And I'm very grateful for all the mentorship that you've given me over the years. You've always made yourself accessible to me, even when I was a very young, up-and-coming, no polished whatsoever, producer, really, because I started as a producer with Hawkman and Zazlo when I was at the ticket which you were still on at the time.

So you've always been a great year for me and an advocate for me. So I would not be here on this show with you right now if it wasn't for what you did for me. Oh, thank you. That's nice of you to say. Can you explain to the people what the beginnings of this were like for you, how you chose it,

why you chose it, the difficulties in choosing it? Well, I grew up in a sports family. Obviously everyone knows that, but I was also an athlete growing up. So I played basketball, a sports family, obviously, everyone knows that, but I was also an athlete growing up. So I played basketball, soccer, volleyball, ran track. I ran track my freshman year of college on scholarship. I was recruited for soccer and track and chose to run track and field.

And then quickly realized I was not going to the Olympics. I was not going to work in any kind of physical training or anything. And I had really lost my like competitive edge for playing and participating in sports after my freshman year. So I loved sports. I grew up with women who were passionate about sports. I often find the question, and I get this all the time, how did you get into sports?

Which I was thinking is weird. How did you get into sports? You just started watching sports. Well, with me, it was a connection with my father, right? The first place he ever took me was the orange ball. I still remember sort of the size of his hand and the the tumult and it was just my life became so much bigger being in a place because we were exiles. My life was very small.

And so there was just it was like walking into a cartoon, you know, and I mean, so noisy and energetic, but it wasn't because I was playing sports. It's because it was a connection with my father. Right. That's how most people, their father or where they grew up or they went with their uncle or their cousin or whatever. Like there's some entrance into sports. It's no different for a woman in sports.

And I went to a high school football game, which as a child that big, a high school football game feels like the orange ball. It feels like, you know, hard rock stadium. So it's like a bit of an amusement park, right? You're like, you feel for us, it would feel like walking into the equivalent of an amusement park. I'm still a small person comparison to these giants that play these, these sports. Imagine, you know, this is tiny little child with people that, that big. So it's the core memories, of course, but in Pittsburgh, it's a bit of a cult. Like it's an assignment almost to be a sports fan. So I grew up with very passionate

women sports fans. My grandmother and aunts were all raging Steelers fans if we were at their home and the game came on, everything else stopped and I don't care about the cartoons that you're watching or whatever's going on. The game is being put on and it would ruin their week if the Steelers lost. So to me, it was a really very common practice to have an opinion about sports, to care about sports, to talk about sports, where it's a part of your everyday identity. So finishing college, I got into broadcast journalism.

I knew that I wanted to be in the sports space and in the entertainment space, talking about sports, and at the time that I was in college at Bayer University in Miami, I've sensed a shift with where, not just the sports business was going, but also where the political conversations were going. So this was at the time. Oh, that early, huh?

You sensed, you were paying attention how these things fused back then, the politics and the sports? Well, because I was Facebook came out my freshman year of college. And Mike Ryan and I were just discussing this how we're sort of in that age group that may be still considered young, but remember the world without the internet. So Facebook came out my freshman year. The social media was very quickly developing. What wasn't anything that it is now.

But the conversations were starting to happen and the coverage was starting to shift, where sports center wasn't the only place where you could get highlights. You could start to get them on your phone. You could start to get them on YouTube and the shows were coming up. All these opinion sports shows, but also opinion political shows. And there was also the shift of Tivo and being able to record things

and not have to record it on VHS. So everything was very quickly changing. And I saw that opinionists were becoming extremely valuable in those spaces. And I really didn't have a desire to be a reporter. I was being pushed into the intense reporter space, maybe because of my demeanor or whatever, I had a college professor who I loved dearly,

who was like, you would be a great reporter. And then she made the mistake of telling me a story, which probably was a major life shift of a reporter who had did this incredible investigative piece. But it wouldn't air because the corporation that owned the new station wouldn't allow its air because it would hurt that corporation. And I was like, so you're telling me that,

like I hadn't, I as a young person hadn't understood the structure. You were believing in the utopian idea of truth. Well, the truth truth, people are telling us. Right, like there's no road box. So what she told me that it was like, oh, and now I get it, I can't participate in that. I don't want to do all of this work from an earnest place

and have it be controlled by a corporation. I don't need that responsibility. And also, I do consider journalists, true journalists, to be as important to society as doctors, teachers. I feel like there is a obligation a journalist has to tell whatever the closest version of the truth is based off the fact they are human, but they're helping to write history. That's a lot of responsibility for me.

I'd rather just talk shit. So I saw the business shifting and that is why I wanted to get into radio. It was important to you then to have a voice, though specifically, when you're talking about opinion, you're talking about I want to be heard, right? I want to be seen. Right. And at that time, there were not a lot of roles for women in those spaces. So if you wanted to break into the business,

you were probably going to be a sideline reporter. You were probably going to be a beat reporter. You were maybe going to get some time on a local station, but you'd probably have to do regular news along with it. There just weren't a lot of roles at all really for opinion. You're not seeing representation anywhere. No representation really. It wasn't really the representation that I didn't really see, it was until Jamel. That was when I was like, oh, that's actually possible.

She is being heard, she's giving her opinion, she's a black woman on right alongside all the men on the equal space, not as a host or moderator or some sort of role on the show. So, and of course, it's still very rare. But that was when I could see the whole vision of it. I saw the business shifting, not just with sports, but also with news and the value of opinions and opinionists and that you can't just give your opinion.

You also have to be entertaining while doing it. That's really when I started to shift all of my direction and goals towards becoming that. Your perspective would be different because you didn't see Representation there weren't a lot of people necessarily who had your perspective But when I say I only have an idea of how hard it was for you Belmani says of Jamel she had it harder than any of us as a black woman and when you say The advent of social media, I learned through the women on highly questionable

how cruel a space that can be to women. I did not have any idea before doing it. Like I had a dollop of an idea, but not really an idea of how poisonous a space that could be. So as you're coming up through the thicket, you're a strong woman, Joy. So you're feeling what? Are you saying, looking around saying,

is this normal or other people getting what I'm getting? No, I knew other people weren't getting what I was getting because you can see what other people are getting. And the internet is an awful place, just stewing of bullshit nonsense and volatility. But there's like an extra special sauce for women, and then there's an extra special sauce for black women, women of color. And then there's an extra special sauce for that when you have the audacity, as you said,

to have an opinion, and then have the audacity to have the opinion about sports. So yes, I knew it was different. I do think that radio trained me for it though. Coming up in the sports radio side of things, as you well know, the love language of sports fans is hostility. That's what I always say. That's how we communicate with each other. We argue. We like this player, you like this player,

you like this coach, you hate this coach, whatever it is. But we used to have the text machine, you remember the text machine? And obviously the PDs would force us to read these God awful texts on the air because they were sponsored. And they'd have these texts up and I would just read through,

because I had to, all of this nonsense and filth, and it was really early Twitter. A poison well, you were visiting a mental health challenge as part of your work day. Yes, and eventually I just gave it to the producers, and was like, please pick us out one readable text out of this stream of garbage, and that's how we got through it

and implemented it into the show and the sponsors got their read. But I had already been sort of predisposed to that experience coming up in sports radio. And of course, we know that none of these people meet any of this. As soon as they see you, they let the show. They just hated that one thing that you said about that one player one time. So weirdly, when Twitter sort of it exploded into that space where everyone felt free to say all the vile things that they say to whoever it is that they hate, I had kind

of built up a little bit of callus towards that. But I also, as you said, I'm a tough woman, and I decided early how I was going to deal with it, and it shifted over my career. So for a long time, if people have followed me on social, this was sort of a bit of my personality on the internet was to just fire back and you kind of cook people and be very mean about it. And I'm not going to lie, it was kind of fun. It was a bit of a sport.

I'll pick out one of these 10,000 idiots and embarrass them and then everyone pile on and it just kind of just became a thing. Now I really don't read it. I do not consume. I mean, that app has become essentially useless for any kind of real conversation whatsoever. But I do not consume any of the feedback. We're not meant to get as much feedback as humans in my opinion. Good or bad? Certainly not if you're creating stuff that's meant to be pure. You don't need the perpetual

doubt or confidence shaking that can come with people perpetually attacking what you're doing as you're doing it. And I think people are entitled to their opinions. I do believe that. I don't think you have to have a certain opinion about me or what I do or what I say. But these are not opinions. I do believe that. I don't think you have to have a certain opinion about me or what I do or what I say. But these are not opinions. They're just attacks for the sake of I have access to this person and I have this evil thing I want to say. But I also think when it comes to social media as a as a woman really for everyone But particularly for me because I talk to women about this often, how do you deal with it, how do you process it?

It's all just sort of white noise. If 10,000 people a day tell me that I'm the most beautiful woman in the world, it means absolutely nothing to me. If 10,000 people tell me that they want me to go die, it means absolutely nothing to me. Both of these pockets are engagement. So I treat social media as a business.

And if they want to say that, they can say it. It's not going to affect me because I'm not going to read it. I'm not going to consume it or turn it like that. How did you get there? How did you get there? Like, did it affect your confidence at all at the beginning? When you don't know who you are yet, never mind as a journalist,

you don't know who you are yet as a person. a journalist, you don't know who you are yet as a person. You're a young person trying to find your voice, trying to learn a job. Like at some point, there had to be, even though I think of you as tougher than most, at the beginning, there had to be some stuff that shook your learning. And you've got people there immediately telling you

that you're not learning well enough or fast enough. Sure, sure. And there's a fear of it also. When you make a mistake, you know people are going to point it out. If you say a wrong name or whatever, like you know in your mind, this is what's going to happen. We're free youth and for me, I noticed always that I can make a lot more mistakes than the women could. Sure, I can't make a mistake. I cannot make a mistake. Even now today, I can't make a mistake. I can't make a mistake. I can't make a mistake. I can't make a mistake. It'll be a whole YouTube reel and there'll be articles written about it. I can't make mistakes. And early on, it, of course, it affects you. But very early on, I decided I wasn't going to allow this anonymous feedback to hurt me

because I can't allow that anonymous feedback to make me feel good either. So when you rely on the internet or the comments of strangers to move you positively or negatively, it's more likely going to move you negatively more often. And as a person who appreciates face-to-face combat, I can't put that much weight into it. So I just made a decision very early on when I noticed that it was affecting me mentally and emotionally, that these people say nice things to me too.

They talk about how I look, they talk about my body, they compliment me. That shouldn't matter either, because that's not authentic either. So neither of these places of feedback are truly authentic or truly positive, even if they are appearing to be compliments. So put them in the same.

You can't, and we see people get very addicted to the praise on the internet. And I never wanted to fall into that, because if you make yourself vulnerable to the praise, you will make yourself vulnerable to the criticism. And the criticism is, as we're discussing, so far off the pendulum of what actual feedback is that it will really affect you.

Well, the thing that I think of though, when I think of you having it hard, I'm not even thinking of that. I think the harder thing isn't strangers criticizing you. And maybe you can correct me on this if I have it wrong. I think the difficulties in running into authority bosses people in your workplace that you have to interact with and you have to have a shared respect with. That's where I would imagine you had more difficulties. For sure, it's incomparable especially because as we're saying these are these are anonymous people. These are not people that sign checks. These are not people that have any effect on if you're going to be paid, if you're going to be paid equally, if you're going to get a new opportunity,

if you're going to get access. These are just people who have no proximity to this very inclusive business that is almost impossible to break into. So, yeah, the difficulties for me in the business have always been on the very real side, not the internet and, you know, trolls. Well, what if those looked like? I think for me it's because I've always wanted to be in the opinion space and actually am in now in the role that I am in on speak,

in the role that I worked for from the very beginning at Barry and what we were just this is the closest you've been to your dream job or what it is you imagine once upon the time. Yes, right now. Being at a table with an equal role with everyone on the show in a fair space with my opinion and voice, mattering as much as everyone else on the show. And that's where I am now. So to get to that point, or to, as you said, have the visibility

or the representation, there's no representation. So how do you convince someone to give you an opportunity that they don't see already existing? So it's a constant battle of affirming that not only do you belong in that space, you have the credentials to be in that space, you have the talent to be in that space, you have the guts to be in that space, because remember I'm supposed to be the emotional hysterical one. And that you'll have something to say if you get that space. So for me, it's just had to take a longer road.

I've had to take a longer road. I've had to do more. I've had to have every job. I've had to be excellent at every job. Can't be bad at anything. Say yes to everything that's presented to you. And always advocate for yourself, which is exhausting. It is exhausting to have to constantly remind people that see you working, that see you

putting in effort and time and producing content and going to things and putting yourself out there, that not only this is what you want to do, but you do not even deserve that you've earned it. I don't really like deserve too much because there's a bit of entitlements circling that word. When you have earned it, when you have done all of the things and more that, let's be honest, the men have not had to do, you're overqualified. I'm kind of overqualified. I'm going to say it. I've had a lot of jobs in this business. I've been in the business for a very long time. And that, I could be bitter about that I choose not to,

but it's not lost on me that that was the journey. And it's not lost on me that it will likely have to be the journey for another woman that wants to break into the space. Speaking of that, how often do you get to feel like a pioneer because some young girl in college comes in and moves you with something that she says because you are for her, what Jamel was for you? I'm pretty blessed I get that opportunity often.

And it actually just happens to me very recently. And she's very sweet about it. And it's some ways kind of, I don't want to say sad, but it is a reminder in some ways that there's so much more work to do because it is a, oh, you inspire me because of this. And instead of, oh, you're my favorite host. And, you know, I love your show.

And like I want to get into this. Just on merit. A compliment on merit because it's your work. I'm noticing not anything. Right, not because of who you are and what you represent. But again, I'm not, I'm not bitter about that because I'm aware of the fact that I do represent something. And when I was a younger person in the business,

I didn't think that way. I didn't think of being a pioneer, having responsibility. And now it's almost scarier. I feel like I have this extra level of responsibility because I don't want to mess anything up for anybody else to get into this space because the reality is there's not a lot of us and any excuse to not have a woman in that space would be gladly accepted.

I feel by most people. Even though I do think the sensibilities are changing, it's not. The representation shows that it's not completely shifted. How lonely was it? How often were you looking around? Because I'm imagining that sports drew you because of a sense of community, and then you get to that community,

and you're like, wait a minute, where are the people who think like me and act like me and have my life experiences? It is extremely lonely. I will say, though, I've been very blessed to have come up in the business with an incredible group of women who also were in the business or adjacent to whether it be news or entertainment or what have you. And we sort of have formed a support group, if you will, that we can freely dump our grievances into without judgments and strategize and calm down and, okay, very angry, let's let it simmer.

What's the move? Type of space, which I'm extremely grateful for. I would not have survived in the business without it because as much as I adore my male mentors, there are experiences that men cannot relate to and in many various ways, not just, you know, trying to break into a space because there's conversation for that

that crosses over from men and women as well. But our unique experiences require a certain sensitivity to understand and empathize with. So I had that support group as I was coming up into the business, MJ Acosta, obviously, and MJ Acosta Ruiz, you know, her and I went to Barry together. We're still extremely close friends and, you know, a group of women and really a lot of women in the business who are of my age group

are extremely supportive of each other. And we sort of do it as a labyrinth, if you will. We don't have to be really loud about it. as a labyrinth, if you will, we don't have to be really loud about it. And that's what is so amazing about it. We've figured out, and I don't want to say this too loud, but you don't need to gatekeep. And once we removed that sort of manipulation that the corporate world puts on you, don't tell anyone how much you make. Don't tell anyone about this other job. Don't give them anyone this opportunity

or you're not gonna get it. Now that we know that that is not real, it's almost like we can move in silence through the business with supporting each other. Oh, I'm not available for this speaking engagement. I know exactly who to refer to you. Here's three women that would be great for this. I've already checked with them.

They're all available. Here's their numbers. It's not taking anyone out of my pocket. I can't do this. I'm not available for it. Thank you for reaching out. I hope to work with you again sometime. So those sort of things have really helped me not just get like get through all the things and challenges, but to feel less alone because you know, I've obviously had conversations with men I've had conversations with you about frustrations that I've had in the business, but sometimes there's just experiences that you have to talk to a woman about.

Can you tell us, give us an example of a time, something you endured where you felt insulted or you came home and you were like, this is not fair, this is not right, this is not what I thought I was signing up for, how is it that the people in power, and it's okay if you don't have an example. Yeah, I mean, there are probably are so many examples, like, I can't think of one glaring one.

I think mostly just the day-to-day experiences are the ones that can build up into the biggest frustration. It's the not being invited to a certain dinner or events, but all of the men were invited or having some extra critique because of what you're wearing that the men would never get or experience or having to deal with something like, I don't know, there's just all these little microaggressions, basically, that you deal with as a woman in this space that the men just not even don't deal with, it just would never occur that this would be an issue or something that you would have to face or something that would hinder you from being able to do your job. And those things are the things that build up on top of the having to constantly prove

yourself, be perfect, not perfect, better, be 100% on time rate, like all of these things and pressures, because you know that if you leave a little crack, if you treat someone how they're treating you one time, if you lay the groundwork for, oh, she's a diva or she's hard to work with or She didn't really do her research on this. Well all of those things only takes one time for someone to imprint that as your entire resume and that keeps you from Moving on in the business. How much anxiety did you have about that because that's a standard? That's not what the way human beings live, right?

We're in the vanity business to microphones and cameras everywhere that kind of How's anxiety? Did you have about that? Because that's a standard, that's not what the way human beings live, right? We're in the vanity business, the microphones and cameras everywhere, that kind of microscope on you seems like something that would be a mental health hazard when you're away from work. Oh, for sure. I've done lots of therapy. I'm still in therapy.

I actually have the session today, later on the afternoon. I've gotten great, great rewards from therapy. I love the ability to just sort of hand somebody who has expertise. Here's a computer download on who I am. I can trust you with this. Okay, help me figure out what my blind spots are, where my weaknesses are, help me with this.

I've found it very therapeutic. Yeah, therapy has really, I mean, I know it's like therapy changed my life, but it has. And I have had bad experiences with therapy. Also, my first experience with therapy was court ordered when my parents divorced, which was a very unpleasant experience. And that was in, I don't know, 2002. So we were not really in the therapy conversations that we're having now at that time. So yeah, therapy was very, very big for me to navigate a lot of the challenges. And on top of all of this,

when you mentioned anxiety with business, I'm a human being too. So I have all of these other things in life that everyone else deals with to pile on to the constant anxiety of having to essentially be perfect, which I'm not, and I was not perfect. So yeah, anxiety is a common thread, for sure. What have you gotten from therapy?

Like when you say, when you mentioned, did you have to testify? Did you have in 2002? Like was there, was there, we did a lot, we were, I don't want to say testify. We did have a, I guess like a mediation. It all feels like now is an adult and knowing the things I know. It was kind of a great, you don't even have an experience,

we're like, that was not okay. But there was no one really like. Really a reference point, you're still a bit of a child, right? Yeah, no, I was 16. And it was a mediation with, it was a judge and then like my father and his lawyers and group and my mother wasn't there. And it was like a presentation basically

where he advocated for what he wanted. And then we, us three children, 16, 15 and 14 had to explain why we didn't with no representation whatsoever. Which, it wasn't there also for give me, I don't know the details of this, but wasn't there a gun involved or something? Wasn't there something involved? Yeah, it was, I mean, you were in my, my, Emmy covering the dolphins at the time that everything happened.

It was, I don't know if my brothers ever spoke on about the exact details of it publicly. So I'll keep the, the nuance details of it. I it. I'm sure it was already reported, but yeah, there was an incident between him and my father and and Jason and that was the trigger point for my parents divorcing, but I grew up in an extremely abusive home. I think Jason's spoken about his side of that, but I won't, but I- Just so you know, I've talked to your brother a number of different times about this publicly.

He gets right up to the edge of it. He starts crying. It's clear that he is super wounded and he sort of wants to talk about it, but doesn't trust the audience with whatever the vulnerability would be of talking about it. But it's obvious to me that he wants to and then just thinks the better of it every time, because he volunteers getting very close to wherever the details on this are.

Yeah, so you know my brother very well and you know his relationship with the media very well. And he and I have a different relationship with the media, but I don't like to tell his story because of that. So I'm sensitive to that for him. with the media very well. And he and I have a different relationship with the media, but I don't like to tell his story because of that. So I'm sensitive to that for him. For me, I've spoken about it many times. I've outside of growing up in an abusive home, have had multiple experiences with domestic violence

as an adult with partners. So I've had a, I guess an upbringing, a hard wiring for chaos, if you will, that I've had to not only process and accept, but therapy also helps me work through some of the residual things in relationships and whatever else, anxieties, vulnerabilities that that kind of upbringing and formative years of constant chaos would cause an adult to function in.

So therapy was very good for helping me get to a space where one I don't operate from a place of guilt, which when you're victim of abuse, you have a lot of guilt, but you also do not know how to enforce boundaries, which was for me the hardest thing personally to ever get to, which I'm great with it now, maybe too good. But it took me a very long time to feel confident in saying no and enforcing that and being okay with the person I'm saying no to moving on. And that also applies to business as well because especially when you're trying to break into a space that doesn't want you there, saying no is absolutely fucking terrifying because what if that's it? And I've had to not say no

many times in hindsight that I would absolutely go back and say fuck no to, but you know, we're here now. Now I say no all the time. But there's real confidence in that. I mean, it is. It's very freeing because you can say no from a space that knowing that no is not a negative word all the time. And not getting so attached to the idea that if you say no, that there's some finality or ends to that particular part of your journey, when in fact, it could be the best pivot that you will have. So those are the things that therapy really helped me establish.

Was the first time that you talked about abuse publicly, you wrote something for $7.90 to ticket at a time that I don't think $790 to ticket really have platforms for writings. I like asked them to put another website. The NFL, the NFL had a series of domestic abuse situations and I believe if I have it correct that you started that with I'm not weak Whatever you wrote you were emphasizing I'm not weak and then you went and you went through the abuse that you had encountered. Why did you do that? And was that the first time that you decided to share out loud? Was there was there freedom in telling others

something that may have been felt at a time like private chain. So it was around the Ray Rice situation and Zazzle and I were doing the show at the time and I had not talked about it publicly. I actually hadn't even shared with a lot of people in my life in detail what had happened. I just sort of submitted to it. It's just going to be an experience and there was really no need to share it. It's also, as you know, very well, when you share sometimes things that happen to you, violence, whether it be through domestic abuse or sexual violence, it can also be met with disagreements from people that are consuming this news from you and that retraumatizes you. And I'm like, I don't, I don't know anybody anything. I don't know anyone in explanation for this.

This is not something I'm gonna share. Then the Ray Rice situation happened. And very quickly I saw that process start to spiral of victim blaming. And his fiance had decided or mentioned that she was gonna stay. And then the whole conversation shifted from him and what he had done to her and why was she staying and it was this is about money and you know she maybe she's not lying because

we had the video but imagine if we hadn't had the video what the story would be and we don't have to imagine because we have these victim stories all the time without videos and that's exactly what it shifts to. So it's sort of started to trigger my experience of, okay, this is why people didn't really believe it was so bad because I didn't leave, but they don't understand why I didn't leave. And I felt like there was not a voice I was seeing speaking publicly, one about their actual experience, but from the vantage point of why is she staying? It's so difficult for someone to understand who is not been in that abusive situation,

why someone would stay. So I made the decision to speak about it publicly. I wrote the piece about what happened and then talked about it on the show. And it surprised me how not hard it was. Once I wrote it and put it out there to talk about it, because my fear and anxiety about how people were going to receive it, or what they were going to say about me,

sort of disappeared because I know this is my experience. I don't have to prove to anyone that this happens. And also, I have a lot of people that were in proximity to me that can let you know that this is actually what happens to me. And for me, I'm grateful that I did it because being a woman in this space that does have a platform and does give my opinion and can appear as very tough or sometimes very fragile and feminine and just doesn't.

It's hard to imagine this happening to me. It's hard to imagine someone trying to kill me, like a man, a big man trying to kill me. Like, how am I here? How did I survive that? Why would I stay in that situation? And part of the reason that you stay is, it's not an attack. If you walk down the street and someone attacks you,

you're not gonna be friend that person. You're not gonna invite them into your home. They're a stranger that has assaulted you. But abuse is different. They don't just walk up to you and punch you in the face. They appear as your wildest dream. They accommodate to you. They are the greatest manipulators that you could ever imagine. Narcissists have the ability to transform into whatever it is you want them to be. And you won't know because the

mask only faces you. Other people can see that they're making this up, but you are the focal points of what they're trying to do. And if you have any vulnerabilities like being a child of abuse, perfect. Now I can attack the chaos that's already in your bones. Now I can manipulate you into thinking that you deserve this treatment because you've seen this before. You know what this is, and it's from a person that was supposed to protect you the most in your father. So of course you are going to be vulnerable to a partner who has been treating you perfectly up until this point. And they slowly start to pull out your confidence.

They start to separate you from your friends. They start to talk about what you're wearing or get overly angry about something as simple as you putting a coffee mug on the table without a coaster and you're like what's happening, okay, like just make sure that you're all right. That sort of manipulation leads you to a space where you're not confident enough to walk away. And then of course, after you process this extremely violent moment, they're the most insanely apologetic you could ever imagine a human ever being. They are, they are besides themselves with their, how could they, their actions, they can't believe they would behave this way. Of course, they've behaved this way many times before. So of course, they can believe it, but they create this entire world where

you're shook because you've just been attacked. But this is a person that you loved up until that point. And we're extremely intimate with and maybe lives with or have children with or are getting married to. And then they start to pool on all the things that you have. What about the kids? Oh, we have this whole life together.

You know that I love you so much. And so it's not like walking away from some stranger that tripped you on the sidewalk. Or here's how I'm flawed. This happened to me when I was young. This is why I am the way that I am and just appealing to the buttons where you're in love. Oh, you trauma bomb with this person, it's a rap. You cannot trauma bomb with this person. And that's also a big part of it because they see your vulnerabilities.

So they're going to tell you something horrific that happened to them. Of course, you have to understand that the reason that I'm treating you badly is because I was treated badly. Please help me. Stay and help me. Help me get better. Imagine how great our life is gonna be if you help me get better.

And of course, it's not gonna get better because now they know how far they can take it. So the next time it will be worse. But you're not gonna leave because you didn't leave when it wasn't as bad. And that is how the cycle happens. And that whole conversation was not happening. And look, we didn't have the public discourse

about domestic violence that we have now, which is still very choppy, but we didn't have anywhere near it's at the time that the Ray Rice situation happened. So yeah, I'm glad that I did it because as afraid as I was to speak about it, it gave me the ability to, you know, have these conversations with you now, but also I know there are people listening, not just women either, there's men, children, elderly people, whatever it may

be that you're in a domestic abuse situation where you feel like you're the only person in the world that's happening to. And a lot of cases are terrified to even say that it's happening to you because you don't think anyone will believe it's happening to you. Imagine if your abuser is a famous person or beloved or the matriarch of your family or your grandmother or your father, like this person provides for you, this person puts a roof over your head, this person is loved by the family,

how you're probably doing something wrong. That is the fear that abusers put in you. So I know very much the feeling that this could only possibly be happening to me. And if I did say something to someone, they're not gonna believe it. So what's the point? I'll just, I'll get through it. And maybe one day they'll stop.

Is there anything that you left unsaid in that explanation about why you didn't leave? Because you gave many of the details for why someone doesn't leave. Is there anything else that you have not mentioned? I think there is a, well, yeah, I mean, there's obviously the fear of retaliation as well. I know a lot of people are very validly afraid to leave an abuser because they tell you, if you leave, I will kill you or I'll do horrible things to your family. You believe them because they do horrible things to you. They're fully capable of whatever violence they're threatening you with. Unfortunately, that happens a lot. It is very, very common that abusers kill their victims. I had a friend that I grew up with. She was my next-door neighbor. Left an abuser.

neighbor, left an abuser, and he came back. She had moved on with her life. She had a new partner, another child, and he murdered her. Murdered her, and it was absolutely horrific. So that is a fear and is a very real fear. But also I think when you're in that space where you have no confidence, you don't believe anything about yourself anymore. You don't even know you're a shell of yourself. Everything that you ever imagined about who you were, what you were capable of, or what you've accomplished, or what you look like, or the money your family has,

or doesn't have, and you have the money. Whatever it is, whatever identity you had is erased from your brain. You are, there's nothing upstairs, there's nothing below. It's, you're just moving through the day, trying to avoid conflict. So when you're in that cycle, not the first time, but the third, the fourth, the fifth, 15th,

you don't have the structure within yourself emotionally or mentally to do that. For me, it took my niece telling me that I wasn't myself anymore. And that to me, while it was such a small sort of, you know, flippant comment, she's a young girl. It was so impactful to me because I was like, wow, like, I'm being an example for my nieces and this is the representation that I'm giving them.

Like they see, this is how a partner can treat you and I'm staying in this situation. That's it. So it wasn't even a massively violent moment, which it should have been, but it just wasn't. It was this one thing, like this one cut through moment that just sort of hit me. I won't be responsible for this happening to them

through my actions and through his abuse. I won't let him generationally traumatize my nieces through his abuse. So that was really the thing that got me out of it. What was the strongest of the feelings when you're in all of that? Is it fear? Is it shame? Because what you're describing sounds like a horror that I would imagine is worse than anything that you have ever endured. The daily taking of steps where you're having your confidence removed and you're also perpetually

afraid of doing the wrong thing. It just sounds like a prison that keeps getting smaller and smaller and more and more confining. That's exactly what it feels like. I think the overwhelming feeling is fear. You've, I'm sure, been around someone that you know is very temperamental and for whatever reason you have to tolerate or deal with this person. So you sort of are just more delicate. That's sometimes what happens.

And sometimes you really have to treat this person by walking on eggshells, not because you are in a relationship with them, but maybe you work with them, or maybe they're a family member that you're just trying to get through a hard time, whatever it may be. It's that, but every second of every day, you cannot make a mistake.

And you don't know what the mistake is. That's sort of the problem. There's certain things that you know, okay, if I do this, they're gonna get upset. So you just won't do it. It's just living around landmines though, right? But sometimes you just don't know where they are. So one day, you can do the exact same thing

that you did yesterday, and it was a perfectly good day. Only today, this was the wrong thing. You put too much cheese in this. You know, I don't like cheese. We had cheese yesterday. Don't tell me I don't like cheese. Now, you know everything about me. That's how the conversations start.

It's not even like you can see where the landmines are. You know what the road is, but every other day there's something that you didn't expect, something you didn't predict. That's what really terrorizes you because you know you will never do anything right. Once you are that far down the road. You're just hoping that you can string together a few good days without conflict so that you can sort of your spirit can sort of rest. And that's really what the trauma is and why people often say that the emotional trauma is so much worse than the physical because obviously outside

of being maimed or murdered, you will heal from the physical abuse. Emotional abuse in the trauma, I am like nowhere near, completely healed from all that, but the anxiety of not doing the right thing or never knowing what the right thing is to do is it's trembling. It's you're so afraid, not of something, someone breaking in your home, not of, you know, walking down the street late at night. You are afraid of your

intimate partner, the person that has rain over your body, the person that you have sex with, the person that you sleep next to, the person that you eat dinner with, the person that is, those every intricate part of your personal life is terrorizing you. It's impossible to explain the type of, I don't want to use the word trauma too much. It's looking for another word. It's like a tremor that is constantly going through you because you know that you can't get out of this. And it's never not there, correct? It's never not there. It's never, you don't get any peace from it.

No, cause even if you are having a peaceful moment, the anxiety of when it's coming next, as soon as you feel you let go of it, you're like, you relax, that's when it happens. And then that makes the attack feel worse. So it's better to just sort of be in a resting space of anxiety and hide it than it is to relax and then have to go climb back out of it again.

So yeah, it's a very specific type of abuse that is very difficult to get out of and very difficult to heal from. I should tell the people that through your foundation you help people with both homelessness and victims of abuse. When you in therapy try to get to the roots of or have gotten to the roots of how it is that this happened to you, Do you think, at least in part, it's because where you grew up, it was entangled with what love was because it's so ingrained in what you saw

as a child in your formation that somewhere around this there was a normalcy to it or something at least that wasn't unfamiliar. For sure, for me. And that's not the case for every victim. Some people have incredibly great childhoods and just happen to have the unfortunate luck of coming across a master level narcissist and abuser.

For me, 100%. My first memory in life, there was a room off of the kitchen in the house that I grew up in, it's a very small room, and it didn't have a door, so it's like I can take you to the movie in my brain. I'm sitting there facing the kitchen and my younger brother and younger sister next to me, and we're all babies, so maybe I'm four or five, old enough to have a memory, but very, very young, and they're each a year younger than me, so they are literally toddlers.

And there's a kitchen table, and my mother is running around the kitchen table, and my father's chasing her, and she's begging him not to hit her in front of us. And my brothers are crying, and that is my first memory in life, like the oldest memory that I have. So if that doesn't form you into a life of being extremely comfortable around chaos and anarchy and abuse,

and I don't know how I could put it on anything else, that was my formative memory in life. And that is a vein for every decision that you make, because like you said, that is your mother and father, or your pillars of what love is, of what respect is, of what a partner should be, of how someone should support you, of how someone should protect you, and that's that. So yeah, I mean, I'm sure there are other things that happen to me along the way,

but I think that that's probably the root of it. And there was also love there. There was love in my mother. I'm still very close with my mother. So there was love in my family for sure, my siblings, my grandparents, aunts and uncles. It wasn't that, but you learn very quickly when you grow up in a house of abuse

similar to having to walk on these landmines that not have boundaries, that that person, particularly if they are in a person of position of power, which they usually are, they dictate everything in your life. So what everyone else sees is not what's happening and it's your responsibility to make sure that everyone else doesn't see that. So he would be screaming, screaming, screaming chaos and then then someone call and he'd pick up the phone Hey, man, hi and that you learn that like okay, you are done of this is real

But I can't let anyone know because this person on the phone has not just listened to you Raging at everyone for the past hour and a half they think This guy's great. So that all of that is, that teaches you how to move around the world, even if it is appropriate or not, you accept that people can behave that way and also tell you that they love you. Do you remember where, because I don't imagine that this dawned on you the first time that it happened to you, where and when you did the learning necessary to be like, oh, okay, this is the behavior of a

manipulator of a narcissist, like where and how you came by some explanations for, why did all of that just happen? Why did I accept it? Why does the person that I love treat me this way? and why did I accept it? Why does the person that I love treat me this way? Yeah, I went to a friend of mine took me to a Women in Distress luncheon in South Florida. They have them in Fort Lauderdale very often. And I mean, I obviously had spent a lot of time around abuse as we've talked about,

but I didn't really have the words that you're talking about, narcissists, abusers. It was just kind of like reality. And I listened to these women who got up and spoke and talked about their horrific experiences. And they were speaking with such confidence and going into these terrible barbaric details of what this person had done to them and how they got out of it and what happened to them and the tools that

they used and they used those words and they went through the steps of how you can get out of these situations and what you need to recognize is how to recognize this is happening to you. And that was the first time in my life that I had that light bulb of, oh, okay, this is very normal, but there's some explanations for why these people behave this way. And there's some patterns here.

And this is why they are devoid of empathy and how there's no fixing this situation no matter how hard you try or how good of a person that you are. So it was really an educational forum that gave me the awareness of not only am I in this situation, but there is a way out and there are other people experiencing this. And there's a, there's a process for all of this that's happening and there's, there's

advocates and there's foundations and there's foundations and there's tools and people out there that will actually help you. After this experience or the first of these experiences, how distrustful were you about love? I think I saw kind of... yeah I mean it's love has been always a very interesting word to me. Uh, loving myself was probably the biggest, uh, hurdle that I've overcome as a woman and an adult for multiple reasons. I grew up in a very religious home as well. So I have very strong feelings about, uh, religion and the confines that that puts on relationships and sex and particularly, uh, guilt with women with women. And I think really now today, I'm the most confident and at peace and comfortable with myself as a person,

through all the work that I've intentionally done, but you loving yourself as like a thing that people say, like, oh, you got to love yourself, girl. And when I was younger, I was always like, that's just something that single people say. Like, it's not a real thing, oh, you got to love yourself, girl. And when I was younger, I was always like, that's just something that single people say. Like, it's not a real thing. Like, how do you love yourself? Like, you need somebody to love you. And it's not until now that I realized the power of being completely comfortable with who you are,

with flaws and with growing attributes and accepting that whether somebody is with me or not or whether I have the affection of a partner or not, I will be okay. And there was a very gaping hole in my experience as a human that I had to fill with that in order to get to a place where I could have healthy relationships. And not that every relationship that I've been in has been unhealthy, it's certainly not true. I've had amazing partners and did have done nothing wrong to me. And we've had great relationships and they've lasted or not lasted. And it's, this has not been my entire experience in the dating space or to any degree.

But I feel a better partner now in the state that I am than I ever was before. I can look back on past relationships that were good relationships and see where I could have been better because I didn't have the peace that I have now in knowing that I'm capable of recognizing what I do wrong and taking accountability and also saying what won't work for me and being okay with saying, okay, I don't have a problem with you as a person, but this boundary that you continue to cross over

is not gonna work for me and it's okay if you leave my life because of it. So. It's funny that you say that because I didn't get to feeling like I could love myself until close to 50 where I've I needed someone's help. I couldn't do it by myself as well as I could do it with someone else sort of holding my hand to get me there accepting and understanding me in a way that was perpetually compassionate and forgiving.

I have some single, I have a lot of single friends my age who covet what it is that I have and are trying, it's so much harder to do it by yourself. It's, you know, to me, it's one of the great enemies in a relationship for someone to give you that so that you can then love them better. You almost can then love them better. You almost can't love correctly unless you find ways to take care of yourself in ways

that are forgiving. It's one of the greatest blessings I've gotten from my marriage is the ability to just be a slightly more gentle with myself, but I couldn't do that one by myself. I don't know, maybe there are many people in our audience who got there by themselves. I lived half a century on this planet without really being able to get there by myself. And you mentioned being hard on yourself. That's really, I think that's the conversation we don't have out loud as much, because now when people are unnecessarily hard on themselves, I check them on it. And I have friends that do that for me too.

When I'm being self-deprecating, you can't talk to yourself that way. And it's not about being humble. That's why I have a line I say that really irritates people and I love that it does. But I don't believe in humble. Humble before God. But for other humans, I don't believe in humble. Humble before God, but for other humans, I don't need to be humble for you. My shine, my lights, my happiness, my peace should not take away from yours in any way. And if it does, that is your problem. I'm not going to allow you into the space of making me feel bad because my peace is hurting you.

And you're very blessed to have a partner that pushed you to that space because while that sounds very aggressive, that's what you do when you don't love yourself. You're constantly dragging someone into your darkness because they have to get in there to pull you up. They see how beautiful you are. They see how amazing you are. They see your potential. They see your light, but you are hiding in this hole. And in order for them to be with you, they have to get in that hole with you. But what if they're not in that hole? They don't, they have

to then not love themselves in order to love you, which sounds crazy. So why would this person be with you? Why would this person want a life with you? If they didn't see all the amazing things. And until you say that about yourself, and that doesn't make you arrogant, it doesn't make you a bad person, it doesn't make you rude, it doesn't make you any of these things that we many times call athletes by the way, when they are proud and loud and celebratory, which is why I don't like using those words. They've earned the right to celebrate themselves. They worked very hard for this.

You as a person works very hard to be where you are, to have the career you have, to have the family you have, to have the friends you have. Why would you talk bad about yourself to make other people feel like you deserve that? You fucking deserve it. You worked for it. Remember I said that I don't like to deserve?

You do deserve that. You've earned it. You've earned the right to feel good about yourself. And if you have people around you who don't want you to feel good about yourself, they'll make it very obvious once you do feel good about yourself because they start to get very uncomfortable.

They get very squirmy. And it makes the room uncomfortable when you have really confident, happy people in it. And I still, I feel, I do feel bad for people who haven't gotten to that space yet. And many people never do. And it is heartbreaking because you will never experience the peace of the human experience, not apologizing for yourself. And people are constantly going to try and make you apologize. They do it to me every day, which is why I am so unapologetic,

because what the fuck do I have to apologize to you for for being in this space? I don't say I'm sorry, I'm not saying I'm sorry, I'm absolutely not sorry. Absolutely not sorry, I will not even use that word. For what? Because you feel uncomfortable? You still don't trust love though, you're're sure you're not sure you're there yet.

No, I'm closer to it than I've ever been. I definitely, I definitely appreciate the kindness and peace in other people. And I think we're all still on journeys. I hope to be in a space one day where I completely, not completely, because I don't think it's healthy to just forget experiences. And that's just my opinion. But where I no longer have the expectations of terror from other people, even good people, and you can never predict what someone's going to do, obviously. You don't control other people, how people approach life is up to them. But when you have those kind of traumatic experiences, it's hard to rewire your brain

to not expect people to do that. And I'm learning to allow people to show me that they won't. I don't know where toughness ranks on your list of personal prides, but what are you proudest of? Like that you, as you've gone through the labyrinth of life, we get a lot of identity from what it is that we do, but I don't know if your work is what you're proudest of, where, where do you look at yourself and love yourself best? I'm definitely proud of my work, I'm proud of my family,

I'm proud of the friends that I had and the experiences that I've had, but I think what I complement myself on and continue to actually really white knuckle to is not being a bitter person about my experiences. And when I say that, I say that with the full knowledge that everyone has bad experiences, that is not unique to any particular person. There are things that other people have been through that I haven't been through that are horrific.

And I recognize that and appreciate that. Everyone has different bad things. So I don't like the struggle competition. Like, well, you didn't do this. Like, okay, but when I went through it was also bad and what you went through is bad and we don't need to like battle royale over our dramas here.

But I'm happy that I was able to maintain, I don't know if I would describe myself as sweet, but just having some softness to me. That it hasn't been expunged from you. That life has not taken from you the purity that you have that is the tender spaces. Yes. I still have the ability to be vulnerable with people.

I still have the ability to be vulnerable with people. I still have the ability to love. I still have the ability to let people into my spaces and new people into my spaces. And I don't, while I realize there are many monsters that have crossed my path, and I hold space for the animosity for them, I refuse. And this was a very early formative decision, I refuse to allow them to define my experience on this planet.

And that I've seen other people fall victim to that, which is completely understandable, because as I've said, it's exhausting. So it is understandable to submit to, I'm just going to let this be my identity that this happened to me. And I can't, I can't allow myself to do that. And I'm very grateful that I have whatever it took to not submit to that. Because now I can be happy and have peace and and be jolly and be open to new experiences and enjoy life without having to have this thing over me that's like, okay, but this is my actual identity that this is what happened. And so not being bitter, not allowing that to paint every decision that I've made is something I'm the most proud of.

It's not the sweetness that I admire. It's something I'm the most proud of. It's not the sweetness that I admire. It's the strength. It's the strength that allows you to protect that part of yourself because you won't allow it to be taken. You know you're strong, right? You know, I don't know if you know how strong you are, but you do know you're strong, yes?

Yeah. And that is formed by all of it, correct? Like that started with your first memory. Like your strength has been tested so that it has gotten stronger through time. I don't know if you're someone who purposely chooses difficult things. I have a lot of friends like that,

that they know that the most fulfilling things are the things that are the most difficult. Obviously we're talking about some things that you did not choose. But the path you chose professionally is it may have looked like fun from the outside, but you learned very quickly that it didn't know. I mean, you chose one of the hardest things.

You're choosing a path that not a lot of people in your circle would have chosen. And you learned pretty quickly early on that it wasn't what you thought it was. It may be now, but it wasn't easy to get to where it is you are now. No, but I think strength is also very relative. Like I think I'm a strong person,

but there are people who do not have the same desire for, or completely different life experiences. Someone who is suffering through a life experience, for completely different life experiences. Someone who is suffering through a life ailments, a medical issue and surviving that and having the mental fortitude to not allow that to take their happiness or someone who has grown up and, you know, object poverty and not allowed that to make them hate everyone who hasn't had that experience. Like, there's so many different versions of strength to me, surviving loss at whatever it may be that I don't think that just because I'm, you know, loud and unapologetic and in

this very testosterone-driven space where there's all men because I'm loud and unapologetic and in this very testosterone-driven space where there's all men and I'm having to prove myself every day that that's the only version of a representation of strength. There's so many people that I see and have experiences with that I think are so very strong that have different versions of different muscles than I have and I still consider them to be strong. As recently as five years ago, if someone had asked me, are you strong, Dan? My answer would have been, I don't know, I've never been tested. It would have been, I do not know. I have not been tested in a way that would illuminate for me whether or not I'm strong.

When you mention loss and when I think about the specifics of what my last couple of years have been, it's one of the few positives that I can find in the battering that I've taken that allows me to feel the joy of being proud of myself, that my strength has really been tested. You knew my brother, you know? And so the last 18 months of going to a bedside and not only did you know my brother, like you knew the energy that he had.

Like you knew how unique he was, how singular he was as a personality type that was just vibrant. And so I had it tested for me in a way that I wouldn't want anyone to have it tested that way because I've never experienced something like what I am feeling now that I that you know every time I talk about it I get like this that there is a perpetual absence that is on me, that is physically on me, that I can't, that I've gotten used to walking around with, that is a daily and minute to minute strength tester

that I've mentioned here before, that even when I laugh, right, I'm always looking for comedy. I'm out here in Hollywood, at least in part because there are so many comedy shows around here. Even when I laugh, I feel the physical pain to remind me of a love that has not yet been lost that and that I don't, like, I don't ever, I don't ever want to die, right? I'd like this pain to go away. I'd like it to subside. I'd like it to be, to require a little less strength, but the reminders are perpetual.

And that is an experience that I have not had. So when I say that that's a strength that I see in you and people who experience that, I haven't had to exercise that muscle. And the who experienced that, I haven't had to exercise that muscle. And the imagination of that experience gives me this fear feeling because it does require such strength to continue to push through that space and hold on to yourself when you're losing someone that you love in a way that you probably will never love again because that's that person. I do want to tell you the story about David and I think I've told you this before but and I'm very grateful that I got the opportunity to tell him as well. He gave me not just the best piece of advice that I've ever gotten

in my life, but his... You mentioned his energy, his very unique energy. So I'm trying to think the year was, I think it was 23 or 24. He and I were very good friends. And I was... 13 or 14, probably, right? Yeah. Yeah, actually it was earlier than that. It was earlier than that because it was before I started at that QAM.

So it was earlier than that. But he... So it was earlier than that, but he, I was going through a very, very hard time. It was right after I had left that extremely abusive relationship that I was in. I was having real battles with my brother, with my family. A lot of my relationships had deteriorated because of that relationship, because, you know, abusers obviously isolate and separate you from your support group so that they can, you know, have the ability to not make you feel like you can get help. So a lot of my relationships were very rocky with my family and close friends. And I was back in Miami.

I was sleeping in my friends' couch. I had absolutely no money. I was not working at all. And I was just just in a real, real low place. I mean, this is after college, like I had already done all the things I was supposed to do to be on my path. And I was just very lost, just not in a great place. And I was with him and at his apartment, he was working on one of his magnificent projects that he was always working on.

And I'm just saying they're bitching. Oh my God, I'm complaining. I can't even imagine how I must have sounded because I hate complaining about things that are within my control now, but I was just being a huge victim. And I was bitching about my family and I was bitching about my situation

and just nothing's going right. La, la, la, la. And he's just listening to me, nothing's going right, blah, blah, blah. And he's just, you know, he's listening to me, but he's working. And he stops me and says, well, please, just stop talking for a second. And he says, let me ask you something, what is something that you want for yourself

in the next three years? And it was such a significant and start pivot from what we were talking about. And it was such an interesting like time window, also like, it was like five years, ten years, whatever. It was like three years. What's something you want for yourself in the next three years. And I said, I want to be full time on air, on a radio or television show in the next three years. It's great. It's a great goal. Love that for you. How much of your energy are you putting into making that happen? Another interesting question. Energy is an interesting word to use. Energy, I don't know, like 10%, I don't have any money.

I am sleeping on my friend's couch. Like I am fighting with my family. I don't like have a job. I'm not like I'm just wandering around the earth right now. A lot of energy is being put there, right? And all that other stuff, all this chaos. That is also kind of mostly in my control. And he said, he didn't respond right away and just kind of gave it a beat as he would.

He said, why are you surprised that it's not happening for you then? It was such a specific series of questions and use of words. I don't even know if he was really being that intentional about it, but when he said it, how he said it, the words he used, it absolutely like, I can right now go right back exactly where I was, like I can see him, I can I can feel the words he said, like hit me. And I was like, like, damn, that really makes a lot of sense. No one's ever put it to me like that before. And the energy word is the most important word that he used because when we think of being successful,

when we think of trying to accomplish something or change or shift or grow or heal, energy is required. And energy is not just time, it's not money. It's not, you know, extra stuff. If you want to get in shape, if you want to be healthy, you know you have to drink water, you have to eat right, you have to get the proper amount of sleep, you have to work out, you have to be consistent. But we try everything else. We try to shortcut all of it and we all know the answer, like we all know is you have to put all of your energy into living a healthy lifestyle. You can apply that to anything that you do or want to accomplish in life whatever it

is, but it requires a hundred percent of your energy, not one drop less. And anytime you talk to, which you have, anyone who has accomplished great things, they say the same thing. I was obsessed, right? Kobe was obsessed. Michael was obsessed. Serena obsessed. We're obsessed with greatness because that has to be the singular focus and it requires sacrifice and it requires less time in your relationships, all these things. And it all of it, it was like this whirlwind of like, no, like hitting me at once. And I left there and have not been off that path since that conversation. I remember because people think that

it was a holy man reaching into a crib and giving my brother an artistic gift. I remember him when I was writing something for 18 straight hours, being on the bed next to me, just drawing his hand again and again, because it's hard for artists to recreate how a human hand looks. He spent 18 hours on just that, because my brother's gift was very much worked for. It was earned. It was learned. And when you mentioned the remembering the feeling of my brother, I think it's one of the things that I miss the most that he demanded that you feel him, that what he was doing be felt and was such an overwhelming presence in that regard. And what he wanted for me the most within those energies was joy. That you can't, you can't arrive unless you're pouring what you're describing there.

I didn't know why you were involved with homelessness as part of your foundation. Is it because you, when you say you were living on a couch? Oh, no, I would have had a roof over my head. I don't want to mischaracterize that. But I did not have an apartment. I would be couch hopping with other friends. But the reason I got involved with homelessness

was because my mother and brother and sister were homeless at some point when they were growing up. And because it is obviously something that moves me to empathy for a multitude of reasons. But yes, we are all that at one point or another that close to it. You have to be pouring your energies though into, if you're perpetually complaining about all of the bad things in your life, you're manifesting something. You're manifesting them, yes. And that really like what I took from that conversation,

put when I say like he shifted in my life, like he, it's the most, I don't wanna be hyperbog when I say it's the most important conversation I've ever had because I then became aware of my potential if I activated it. because I then became aware of my potential if I activated it. And I felt like I knew that. I graduated from college, I graduated with honors.

I did all these internships. Like I thought I was doing all the right things, but I got off my path. And it perhaps it was because I was in that situation or it was at that point in my life where I needed that intervention, but He was really like an angel for me in that moment and I've any time. I've told the story many many times, right? I haven't attributed it to him

He he was the catalyst for my success because he explained it to me how to do it, which was just to do it, but do it with energy, put your energy into what it is you're trying to do. And I did. And now we're here. Well, thank you for sharing that with me because I've been, you know, I've been having a real hard time with a lot of this. I've been having a real hard time with a lot of this. I've been isolating, I've been hiding a little bit in work because I don't want to rummage

too much in the bin with people who cared about him or love him that makes me feel the pain or reminds me again and again at the pain of loss. But I did not know those specifics. I did not know that he had reached you in that way. And so I appreciate you sharing that with me because I don't like how I'm experiencing grief. I don't like that I am hiding or avoiding the possibility of getting the reminders of why it is.

I loved him, how I loved him, what the reasons were and are. And so I appreciate you sharing that with me because I haven't been getting a lot of that. I've been avoiding the stuff that that hurts. And so it hasn't allowed me to get to the stuff on the other side where the the growth and I just can't imagine myself being healed, but certainly that would be part of can't imagine myself being healed, but certainly that would be part of keeping both his memory spirit and energy alive to talk to people that he had, there are so many that he's had that impact. I did not know that you were one of them in that way. I knew that you liked him, but I did not know that he had moved you like that.

I appreciate all of this time with you, and I will tell you again sincerely. I think you know this. I had not said it before but I am thrilled to see how happy and confident you look doing the things that I will say you deserve. Thank you. Thank you. You don't like to deserve. FS1, the name of the show is Speak. They spent a lot of time thinking on the name of the show and that's what they came up with. Thank you, Troy. Thanks, Dan.