The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - South Beach Sessions - Kathy Griffin

Episode Date: May 31, 2024

Kathy Griffin won't be canceled anymore...  After a battle with cancer and a federal investigation that had her on the no fly list..... the comedy legend is back. Kathy and Dan don't shy away from anything as Kathy reveals the terrifying toll of being blacklisted that led to addiction, PTSD, and the darkest moments she never could've imagined, and why the laughter and love she receives from audiences today is (no joke) the greatest medicine she could ever hope for.  With Kathy, there's no holding back so she also shares her stories about dating Quentin Tarantino, her personal "Mount Rushmore of Comedy", the reason her stint on "The View" didn't last long, and why one of the most hurtful comments she's endured came from Andy Cohen.   See Kathy on her “My Life On The PTSD List” tour, performing across the country with shows into 2025. Go to KathyGriffin.com for dates and tickets. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to South Beach Sessions. I'm genuinely excited for Kathy Griffin because I want to tell her and give me a second to Yammer and you why it is I admire her so much because she has lived a rich life. You're talking about a world Guinness World Record holder for comedy specials, 23. She has written and produced all of them. She has six Grammy nominations for all six of her comedy albums. Her memoir was number one bestseller as soon as it came out. She can't hear the smattering of very small applause that's being played here, but she is a legend, a legitimate legend, a pioneer, performed all over the world, including War Zones, award-winning activist, icon in the gay community, doxed, canceled, fired, a lot of pain and a lot of laughter.

Thank you for what it is your work has been for many years because you conquered the game and you're one of the best to do it. Oh my God, you're so nice. I'm just so grateful to still be doing it because after the Trump thing, I'm not gonna lie, that really messed with my head because remember, I wasn't just canceled.

People talk about being canceled. And frankly, sometimes people should. So I know comics go, oh, cancel culture. I wasn't canceled. I was investigated by two agencies within the Department of Justice at the behest of the president and the attorney general. I was investigated by the U.S. attorney's office and the Secret Service. I was investigated by the US Attorney's Office and the Secret Service.

I was put on the no-fly list. I was put on. One of the lists, that's one of the lists you were put on. I was also on the D-list. I was also on the Interpol list. And I was in the middle of a 50 city tour. And when the photo came out, went to TMZ of all places because Harvey Levin is a gay

Trumper, which is a mystery to me, but he is, and he's very much in bed with Trump. And they turned that photo where I'm holding up the Trump mask with blood on it, and they turned that into a meme in Iran and Russia and China. And I was the face of ISIS as a 57-year-old redhead. I was the face of ISIS. Kathy, you got here fast. You got here fast. I, you're touring for the first time in six years.

And I want to talk to you about all of it because like I said, this is a part of her life, the things that have happened to you after 57 and 58 have been hard, difficult things. I just, you've had. Drug addiction. Yes, the Trump stuff was very difficult and we will get to it. I can't imagine how difficult.

Your tour is about PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder. I've been diagnosed with complex PTSD. And by the way, it's okay if people laugh at me because I laugh too, because I thought it was just for combat veterans. So that people understand what that is. It's the trauma that messes with your head, not necessarily just in war zones, but your last six years seem to be, you're on tour for the first time in six years,

something that would be a mental health crisis. It was. I was canceled by everybody. I lost about 75% of my friends. I was considered toxic. My own industry turned on me. I hope to get a special, but my agents tell me that the industry is still squeamish after all these years because of the Trump photo. So its tentacles are long and wide, but I'm just I'm so thrilled to be in the middle of a 40-city tour. And then I take the summer off and then I go back and I do the larger

cities in the fall and I even get to go back to Carnegie Hall on October 26. You sold it out in 12 hours and Radio City Music Hall right afterward. Radio City, I played the next night. I mean I've had some magical magical moments and so those years when it was taken away from me, I felt like I was missing an arm and I did not deal with it well. I just plummeted. I can't imagine what it was like to not be able to do a thing that you identify with.

I don't know how much of a... Oh, I'm a happy workaholic. I love stand-up. Like I have a burning desire to hit the mic. If I think of something funny, I want to run up and do it. I want to put it in the show. And I just love every show. You are somebody who has grinded at comedy for a long time.

Oh, I'm a grinder for sure. Honey, I wasn't even on TV till I was 36. Then, you know, I had a good run. I got my first HBO special and then a Comedy Central special. And then I went to Bravo, and I had My Life on the D-list, which just dropped on Peacock. So after all these years, if you want to rediscover Kathy Griffin, My Life on the D-list,

please check it out. I didn't even mention that in the introduction. She won two Emmys for what was a pioneering reality show. Well, I love your compliment, but what I will say is it was real. Like nowadays, the Kardashians, you know those shows, they're called soft scripted. Because you know, they kind of give them liners and stuff.

And the D-list was real. If you think I could get my alcoholic parents to do a script, you're crazy. Why the need to show everybody everything? Why? What's the call of it? Because I think I've always been a magnet for crazy. I'm just that person that people come up to and say crazy stuff or something crazy happens

to me or I'm doing a crazy corporate gig where I'm bombing and so I have to make fun of it. I have done 18 gay cruises 18 and let me say this to the straights. You may think you party you may Party you have no idea But I love doing them and I love working and I have I haven't played every state in the Union But I've come damn close and I have, I haven't played every state in the union, but I've come damn close and I'm still thrilled to be three shows in Florida, you know, Orlando, Tampa and Lauderdale. And I can't even remember where I go after this, but I'm just thrilled.

Well, explain to me what touring is after six years, how much fear is involved, how much you missed it, if you thought it was gone forever. Yeah. Well, I have security concerns because the Trumpers still come after me. So for example, I had a show in of all places, Long Island recently, and there was a big Trump protest. And they had the now famous image of President Biden bound and gagged. And that was the first time they premiered that image on somebody's truck. And then Trump re-ran the video on Truth Social with my marquee in the background saying, Kathy Griffin tonight, my life on the PTSD list tour. And so it all got ginned up again. And then next thing you know, Chachi's coming after me. Freaking Chachi! Not Scott Bello. Kevin Sorbo!

Okay. Nobody post that Trump photo more than Trumpers. And they all want to send me to Guantanamo Bay. Well let's talk about that in a second because- Guantanamo Bay! I know it's terrible. Come on! No, that's not good.

That's not a good situation. First of all, my hair would frizz. My hair would frizz. It's Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. I'm Cuban, so yes, I know what it is. You have been under it in a way. She's not exaggerating when she says that the fear is real. It's not an imagined thing.

And one of the reasons I admire you is because comedians have always risked. The best ones have always risked big things. I think so. See, I'm from that school, and I would never put myself in this class, but, you know, Carlin was arrested by the police. I was arrested by the feds, but. You put yourself a class above.

You didn't even put yourself in the class. If you're going to really get arrested, how about you really get arrested? Get the entire Department of Justice and the president and the attorney judge. Captain members are coming after me, but Lenny Bruce and Carlin, they were hassled by local PD. And that is awful, but it's a bit of a different animal. For example, the no-fly list thing prohibited me from being able to make a living.

So not only are people that were coming to my shows in good faith, I'm apologizing to them left or right. But then every, you know, people have to remember after that Trump thing, everyone turned on me left, right and center. It wasn't just Trumpers. I had my good friend, I just loved Al Franken. And Al called me that day and he said, I can't be seen with you. And I was good friends with Cher.

I know I'm name dropping, but I haven't seen Cher since that Trump thing. And I'm still hurt and a little bit shocked that people would see really a protest photo, a joke, whatever you want to classify the photo as, it's up to you. But it got so exaggerated. And to call me a terrorist and put me on the no fly list. I've been doing stand up for so long.

I'm 63. I've made fun of every president. Obama, W, HW. I mean, Clinton. You got to make fun of the president. It's called punching up. But this particular president who I know quite well, I know Trump pretty well.

I've known him for about 25 years. And for him to comment me with that power was just, it was so overwhelming that I wasn't safe walking down the street. I had people confront me constantly if I left my house, Trumpers, or even people on the left saying, you've made it so American service members aren't safe because of you. That never happened. You're gonna be in ISIS videos. That never happened. Americans

are gonna be beheaded in your name that never happened. But then Hollywood went nope she's toxic and they abandoned me honey. I was sitting in my house all by myself crying. This is a lot Kathy. It's a lot I know I know I'm supposed to be funny. No no no I am I do not have the expectation of funny here I appreciate your vulnerability. When I say it's a lot, just listening to you creates an anxiety in me. Right. That, yes, what you've been through the last six years, I don't even want to discuss sort of whatever the controversy is on the front end that made everyone yell and scream at

each other and the art of it, or you apologizing, and if you regret the apology. The part I wanna talk to you about. I do regret the apology. I just have to say that. I think a comedian should be able to make fun of the president, even though I know mine went far,

but I felt as a woman, women weren't getting how dangerous he is. And of course, here's the funny part. It's revealed itself. I thought people would ask my back, and honey the cheese stood alone. The cheese stood alone. Well I want to ask you about losing 75% of your friends because when you're talking about what this has wrought, you couldn't have possibly understood the consequences. I thought that picture would be on a gay blog for two days. I took another series of photos.

I took one where I was spoofing Kim Kardashian, who was my next door neighbor at the time. I took one where I was looking like a 50s housewife. And I was in between gays. I didn't have a publicist. And I thought, okay, I'll take like a protest Trump picture because he's so outrageous. And then that's the one that the photographer who never suffered any consequences sold to TMZ.

I don't know why he did that. I think maybe he just didn't know TMZ was in bed with Trump, but then it exploded. And then Trump tweeted, my son Baron is going to be very disturbed by this. By the way, let's see if he even goes to Barron's graduation. That's gonna be, let's see.

I wanna see him sitting there at Barron's graduation because he demanded the day off his trial. But still to this day, it hurts that people think I'm controversial because honestly, most of my act is making fun of celebrities. I'm not a political comedian. For those of you who do not know the history,

she has always mocked herself first and that she is fame-adjacent in a way that makes fun of fame. D-list on a good day. D-list on a good day. Every so often, I'll have a C- day, but pretty much D-list. I understand, or I can't begin to understand, but why Trump and all of that would be so front of mind for you.

And I just wanna talk to you because your life, I don't know where the laughter comes from, I don't know what a mask it is for pain, but the specifics of your last six years and calling the tour what you're calling it, post-traumatic stress disorder, you skipped over the part of even without this, even without what your last six years have been,

you have occupied a mentally traumatic space for a very long time and you've made comedy out of it. It's been rough. And look, I had lung cancer. I never smoked. I have half a lung on my left side. My mom died during COVID. She and I were super tight. I filed for divorce three and a half months ago. I thought I'd be married forever. I'm crushed. I find the humor because I don't know what else to do.

I'm such a stand-up comic that I write almost in my dreams. I'll wake up at three in the morning, write something on a cocktail napkin. I'm so old-fashioned, I still write topics. I don't write my act. Like Jerry Seinfeld sits down at a computer, he writes an act, he knows where the commas are He knows where the period where every word is where every word is now. I love Jerry. He's the national treasure

I'm very improvisational So besides the great Joan Rivers who was really my mentor and Don Rickles I knew that very well and they saved my life many times but the great Robin Williams early on he saw me bomb one time and he came up to me and he said very well and they saved my life many times. But the great Robin Williams early on, he saw me bomb one time and he came up to me and he said you're on to something. Don't worry about it. Keep doing the off-the-cuff improvisation. He said that's what comedy is. One night it works, the next night you try something new and you keep trying stuff till it works and then you get you change it again and I take you know when you have greats like that take a minute of their

time and go hey I think this will help you out it would just mean the world to me the world to Lisa Kudrow I think you've credited from friends Lisa Kudrow said I think you're good at doing characters, because we both tried out for Saturday Night Live, and of course Lisa got the job. And she said, and I'm sorry, I'm sorry, she did friends. Julia Sweeney got the job. But at least of course went on to a better job, in my opinion. But Lisa pulled me aside.

She's Phoebe Buffay on Friends. And she said, you know, I think you're funny doing characters, but I actually think you're funnier when you just tell stories from your life. And that was something I took in. And she was right. I'm not one of those SNL girls.

I guess I could do it if I had a gun to my head, but it's not what I'm great at. Oh, it wouldn't be fun. The confinements for you of the rigors of sort of, I got to get every word in the right place, would be not as fun as just being yourself. I don't even know how to do it. Like, every show I do, I do opening material

about the city and I make fun of them right to their faces. So when I do Tampa tonight, I will be making jokes about Tampa right to their faces. And they know it and they go with it. And it's never mean, but like, I'll find like a local news article. Like, 90 year old woman Becomes a pilot and has to wear depends on the airplane. Okay, that's gold

That's cool Is it and I'll be in some local paper and the audience loves it because they know I took a minute to be personal Then I get into the act I don't have an opener because I can't have those guy openers anymore with the whore in the hotel room But I have to pay for and then it all comes back on me. I'm sorry. I am sorry. That's why you ran the openers out of there. You just can't travel with men anymore. There's just too many whores and they get the whores in the room and then I don't know what's happening and I had to say no. So I do two hours by myself beyond time and

keep an open mind. All right how this is a broad question okay but explain to me what you mentioned Joan Rivers what being a woman in this male-dominated field has been for you because when I call you a pioneer that is so you you come from a time where great strength was required. Where there was one at a time. Phil, Moms Mably, the only one of her time. Toady Fields, the only one of her time. Phyllis Diller, the only one of her time.

Joan Rivers, the only one at that level of her time. Okay, I have some bad news for you. It's still really bad. Like if you were to call your local comedy club and say, OK, give me your lineup for Saturday night, they'd probably have 12 guys and one woman. And so I wish I could say it's better. But you know what my biggest stigma is,

and that's why I'm so grateful to do this show? There's still a stigma that chicks just aren't funny. And I get a lot of gay guys and women that come to my shows. And I get a lot of couples where my joke is the woman had to drag the guy to the Kathy Griffin show so she has to give him a blowjob afterwards. It's a deal. I feel it's a fair deal.

But I've been asking my straight guy friends. I said, look, if you have a night out with your bros and you're going to go see a comedy show, would it ever occur to you to come see me or Chelsea Handler or Wanda Sykes or Whitney Cummings or Margaret Cho? And all of my friends said, honestly, Kathy, we're gonna go see Chappelle.

We're gonna go see Rock. We're gonna... And that's my biggest stigma to selling tickets is I'm still trying to convince people chicks are funny. I'm ashamed to say as we sit here that on the first date of my wife, with my wife, to impress her, I called Frank Kellyando, a comedic friend, and Carrot Top, a comedic friend, to have that conversation with my wife, who is also very funny.

But I was showing off that I could get Scott and Frank on the phone. It's so funny because the mag has always put pictures of being that's... Carrot Top's real name is Scott Thompson, as you know. And they put pictures of us together, and they think it's this big insult, like, which one is which?

Carrot Top is laughing all the way to the bank. Oh my God. He has never been out of work since the day I met him. I met him when he started doing colleges. He was making a fortune and you know what? Good for him. People do not know. His audiences love him. Kathy, I don't think people have,

beyond the expectation of funny and the bravery it requires to get on stage every night in front of strangers, I don't think people have any earthly idea the difficulties of how it is to become as successful as you are and were when you were just bringing all of it in as a unique person in your time. Yeah, and look, every city is different. You know, one thing that breaks my heart is I would say

I've lost probably permanently about a third of my audience. And because of the most recent stuff? Because of the Trump thing. I think I've gained some audiences that are maybe a little bit more political, maybe a little bit more liberal. But you know, I used to play the South like crazy because they knew me as somebody that would make fun of Hollywood and the Kardashians

and celebrities. It's such a, it's such a, I can't believe the deep water you found yourself in given, it's such a, it's such, I don't know whether you're grateful for it in any way, what you've learned from it or the strength in it, but you specifically having worked the way you have ending up in political quagmire like that. I know. And then feeling like the government is falling atop all your fears and neuroses. I was interrogated under oath. They were seriously considering charging me

with conspiracy to assassinate the president of the United States. That has never happened in the history of comedy, never. And I accept it. People come up to me now, they're much nicer and they go, good for you, you were ahead of your time. I get the pun. But man, I was afraid to walk down the street for years. Kathy, I can't imagine, nevermind outside of your home. I don't know how your brain functions. I don't know how much daily anxiety you have independent of this, but going to sleep at night with this hanging over your head

when you've been somebody, hey I just want to dance around Hollywood and have a little fun, how did I end up here? It's a mindfuck. It's an unbelievable mindfuck. It's so funny I use that word all the time. It was the mind fuckery that did it. I mean. It was so confusing and it was frustrating and Bravo fired me and I worked at NBC Universal for a million years and then Jeff Zucker who fired me got me toot out of the business. And then Leslie Moonves where I'm banned from CBS for life

cause I got into a fight with Leslie Moonves, he got me to out of the business but I'm still banned. Well TV executives are pretty useless. I haven't met... You know Joan Revis used to say, she used to say they're just removable bodies and heads. You can switch one from the other and she would say Cathy keep doing your work, keep being as funny as you can and that's all you can do. The reason that I feel for you is because going through a modicum of turbulence, you know, getting in trouble at ESPN for just sort of barely grazing any of this stuff in the most... Doing your job. In the most harmless way, but at company policy and doing so and then going through the

Subsequent storm of being turned into a political weapon in these divisive times It was so unpleasant for me Yours is ten trillion times worse And you know it's like well, but no no no no I don't know what it's like but I was inviting it knowing there were more consequences. Yeah. You invited it without knowing you were gonna turn your life upside down. I really did. I thought there's a lot of people especially women that can't stand Trump

they'll find this funny you want to go for that king you take his head off? You know, I mean Perseus and Medusa. There's actually a lot of Believe or not headless is a real history. There's a David Spade movie called eight heads in a duffel bag. What's that about? There's a movie called death becomes her with Meryl Streep and Bruce Willis where they get beheaded. So I wasn't even breaking new ground in that way, but it's because I have a history with Trump or the Donald as he likes to be called and he cannot handle it when he feels a woman shames him. And I believe and I've heard from people in his circle, that's what triggered him. Is he felt like, who is this B-I-T-C-H thinks she is?

I've known her. And also I was an easy target. I didn't have an agent at the time. I had been fired from Bravo, so I didn't have a gig. I had New Year's Eve coming up, but then the picture came out and I'm watching the ticker on CNN and it says Kathy Griffin fired on CNN. Nobody even called me. I want to talk about your firings.

I imagine there's some funny stories here. I don't know how you lasted such little time on the view. I don't know the details of you going back and forth with Anderson Cooper and Andy Cohen. We'll put those off to the side for the moment. In the height of whatever rock bottom was in that, when you are going to the darkest of places and I from over here am like, how could she not feel so helpless

that she would think it a relief to end her life, that that would end the pain because her mind is spinning out. I became addicted to prescription pills at the age of 57. So I'm a late bloomer who the hell becomes a junkie at 57, but I didn't know what to do with myself. I was scared. I had lots of security. I had all kinds of death threats.

The FBI was coming to the house twice a week to tell me about what credible threats were out there. It was madness. And so I became addicted to prescription pills and I would just take pills. And then I'm not this way normally, but because of the pills, I started thinking about suicide. So I tried to take my life. I took many, many, many, many pills and I I ended up I went to the emergency room because when I came to I Fell down my two flights of stairs. I didn't fall asleep to my death And so I'm kind of have to laugh that I even screwed that up But I called a doctor and he said yes

You have to go to the ER and then by law if you try to off yourself they have to put you on a set at least 72 hour cycle and that's where It occurred to me Okay, suicide is not the answer either and luckily they hooked me up with two people from a AA So I'm now three years and ten months sober. I'm a proud member of AA. Even though I was a pill girl, I still go to AA. And that helps me tremendously. I gained some new friends from AA,

which is good because they're also sober. And then a year sober, I get lung cancer. And I had a mass in my left lung and they had to take out half my left lung. During the surgery, the surgeon injured me, so I have a permanently paralyzed left vocal cord and aperture above my cords. So I don't mind it because I now have to wear

a special headset microphone, which makes me feel like Janet Jackson and very rock star, and it helps a lot. But I say it to the audience right at the beginning of the show, I go, here's why my voice is a little bit altered. And they're so forgiving. And these audiences, there's something special happening on this tour.

I'm not kidding. It's like, if you buy a ticket that says, an evening with Kathy Griffin, you know about the Trump thing. You might know about the cancer. You might know about the Trump thing. You might know about the cancer. You might know about the divorce. You might even know about the pills and the suicide attempt. Or you might know one of those things.

But the audiences are showing up and they're laughing. And it's like they're hugging me and they're on their feet. And I don't mean to sound like an asshole saying that. They've been on their feet every show. Oh, but you feel the love. Look what you've been on their feet every show. Oh, but you feel the love. Look, what you've been through. It's heaven. I can't wait till my show tonight.

I can't wait till my show tomorrow night and the next night. It's medicine. I love it. It is medicine. Did you heal anything permanently in whatever rock bottom was and then bouncing back and getting life and gratitude and time to enjoy. The drug thing is big because when you get off drugs and you join AA, and I'm pushing

AA and I shouldn't because it's not my place, but I like it because they don't have one leader so it's not like a cult or something, and it's free. You can go to meetings for free. I go to Zoom meetings and listening to the stories of other addicts, many of who were suicidal, many of who were in psych wards, then it gives you this like, okay, I'm not the only one. I'm not alone. Where was the rock bottom for you? Is it before the pills? Is it in the psych ward? Is it? It was when I failed to kill myself

because I had this dual realization of, uh-oh, I have to keep living my difficult life, which was just painful. But it was also the realization of, this is not the answer, this is bottom. Like, even though I was messed up on pills, when you fall down two flights of stairs, and you've got bruises and lacerations all over your body, and you don't know how you have a realization. And I went, Okay, I'm not meant

to die today. But you can also do dark humor. So somewhere, but somewhere in there, I even got this wrong. My ending isn't gonna even you can do dark. Oh, yeah. Because I feel and I asked the audience I say, Okay, guys, I'm gonna talk about, I don't actually don't talk about my divorce because it's a court case, but I say I'm gonna talk about addiction. Clap if you've been touched by addiction in any way and they all clap and I make fun of it. I mean this is so dark, but one of my favorite things is if I'm on a zoom AA meeting and someone comes in drunk I know that makes me evil

I know I'm evil but I can't help it cuz everybody's being earnest and there's always one person with like a bottle of Jack Daniels Hey, what are you guys doing afterwards? You have to laugh at how flawed we are I don't know we are or if I'm at the end oncologist and one more person goes miss Gifford miss Kathy Lee Gifford I'm not gonna correct the oncologist. I just go. Yep right here. You can't do that No You have you've learned what from the last six years? It's a broad question learned that even at your lowest darkest moment Whatever the topic is for some people

it's illness for some people it's heartbreak whatever somehow look for the humor even if it's a joke that isn't funny to you today but you think oh I might be able to laugh at this someday that will get you through I'm I'm an old-fashioned believer in humor humor. And then I would try jokes out on my friends. And they'd be like, oh my god, I can't believe you said that out loud. And I go, aha, I'm onto something. And so I really do believe humor and also support. Get support from other folks that have gone through it.

Find all kinds of support groups and talk to people. And just get a real dialogue going. Like like I don't do small talk anymore. I'm like incapable of small talk. Sure I'll talk about the weather for a minute or something, but one thing that has changed is I find the conversations I have with my friends who are now real friends, they're like real conversations like this. Oh but tell me about now real friends because they're like real conversations like this. Oh, but tell me about now real friends, because you do learn about people when you find out the ones who stick through the sticky net.

Oh, yeah. I mean, I called on all the favors. First of all, now that I'm on the road, I bring with me what I call a babysitter. And I bring a friend to come on the road with me and keep me company, because sometimes when I wake up in the morning, part of my PTSD is I get terrors, and I wake up shaking and sweating

as if there's like a guy at the end of my bed with a knife. And I know that sounds crazy because it is. Well, but you... So to take people through, because one of the things I admire about you is you're so open about these things, at least in part, I would imagine, so people can feel less alone with it if they are suffering from it.

Panic attacks? The vomiting? Vomiting? I vomited for 10 months. I was down to 87 pounds. It was... That actually is right up there with low points because I didn't know why I was so sick. I then was diagnosed with PTSD,

and now I have a whole series of treatments that I also make fun of in my show. Kundalini yoga, acupuncture, cupping, where they have to put the students. I don't know, I like cupping. I'm doing all sorts of acupuncture and things because I will tell you about my own panic attacks here, although they're not, yours sound so harrowing.

Okay. So I'm coming through a period of great grief and turmoil. My strength is being tested more than it ever has because we're doing things with the company, but also because, uh, I am at the deathbed side of my little brother, watching a, uh, really vibrant personality chewed up by this horrible illness that we both know. And in the stresses of that, which I think are smaller in some ways than the stresses that you were dealing with. Well, but because I'm trying to put into context your level of anxiety and how panic attacks affected you.

Yeah. On a handful of occasions, I'm going to say half a dozen without being able to place why it is that it was happening, but only in retrospect can I see that it was fear that was grabbing me. I was just passing out. I was just immediately like my body would just shut down without explanation and paramedics would show up and they wouldn't find anything. And so I can only realize in retrospect what that was doing to my mental health, the anxiety of all of that. And the paramedics coming, and then you got to worry if it's something else and you're not sure if you're fainting because of this reason.

Right, no, I didn't. I didn't have a diagnosis for what was happening with me. And that's frustrating, because you want to know what the hell you can do to fix it. And yes, and I'm also in front of my wife giving her the greatest fear that she can feel, and as I'm slipping away, I'm like, no, this is not how this ends here. And yes, but what I'm saying is in all of this, it wasn't vomiting and the terror, like my body would just give up your body was

enduring it yeah and it's and and so I still have my head when yesterday that was a bitch I woke up and I sweat in weird places and I can't think straight and lights hit me a certain weird way and sounds I can't even watch TV I had one day I had two steps of water the entire day I can't even watch TV. I had one day I had two sips of water the entire day. I can't keep anything down. So now I'm on a better regiment where I'm in good shape and I work out every day and all this other stuff. But there was about 10 months when I, sorry to be so gross, I could not stop vomiting and I got really sick. And that was right after my cancer surgery. And I lost my voice because I've had six surgeries on my left cord so far.

But for about 10 months, my voice literally was like this. And Jimmy Kimmel was the only one that would have me on his show. So I'll love him forever because I had this crazy voice. We had to explain it. But he said, it's OK. Tell your jokes. Come on the show. And that stuff like that means a lot.

What was the, when I'm asking you about the worst of it, and I don't want you to do comparison shopping on pain, but I'm trying to figure out whether being alone, because people are leaving your side, or whatever it is that the one thing is that was harming you the most was blank. Fear because I believe that's what caused the attacks. It's the fear of the unknown.

My attacks were never 20 minutes or two hours. My attacks are always 12 to 14 hours. I can't move. Jesus Kathy. I'm in the dark. I'm on my side. Hold on. Hold on.

So this is just. I can't even watch TV. This is just paralyzing. And this is just paralyzing your life. Yes. How do you tamp down the anxiety? How do you turn down slightly for you, for your mental health, the fishing line going to see that your mind must be? I do all the stuff. I do the Kundalini yoga. I do breath work exercises. I Say things I don't even know what they mean. I go like this sat nam sat nam I don't even know what the hell means But if it calms me down to somehow get physical if I can get out of my damn brain

But the problem is my PTSD is so physical. It just comes right from my body So my brain is saying Cathy Kathy, you're fine. You're absolutely fine. And thank God on show days, I've been doing it so long, I have so much muscle memory that even if I'm having an attack on a show day, let's say the show's at seven o'clock, by about five o'clock, I start to put my makeup on. Kathy, I can't believe what a safe space comedy is for you. I can't believe.

I walk out on that stage. Cathy, it's a blessing. The buzzing, I get a buzzing all through my chest. It stops. What a blessing. It stops. To have the thing that you love to create, that is your art, and express to people for applause, laughter,

validation, to have that also be a three and four hour reprieve from the rest of your life? Yes. Oh, it's heaven. It's heaven. And look, I'll be honest, not every one of my shows is sold out, okay? I didn't sell out in Omaha, but I don't care if there were three people there or 3,000. And like I said, the audiences come in

and I feel like they know me. You know, I've been touring decades. One year I did 80 cities in one tour. I wouldn't take one back, I love them. And the show's unpredictable, and so I think it keeps my mind from going to a dark place because I don't totally know what I'm gonna

stay on stage every night. Like, I, when Robin Williams said improvise, I took him really seriously. So I kind of have my anchor stories. I never, I never, I never know and I don't, creatively, we, I spend three and four hours here in what is a very happy space with people I care about and the communal laughter. Everybody's so nice here. They are, yes.

They were happy to see you. And it is a bit of an environment that feeds me medicine at what has been a very difficult time. But the way that you're articulating what your career has been and what the anxiety around it has been I don't know what would come in second place for you on making you as happy as that stage does. It's hard because you know, it's it's what I love to do more than anything and I have what I feel like is a relationship with my audiences.

Some people, because I changed the show up so much, some people go, I've seen you nine times. I haven't even seen a comedian nine times. I'm so flattered by that, but I also- Oh, but they feel like they know you. They do. Your history has- My life on the D-list was a very real show.

And so it's so touching. They remember a show from 15 years ago. Cathy, you've given yourself over to them. Oh yeah. So that this is the exchange, right? That's the relationship. That's where you're connecting with people. But is that second for you?

When I asked you about the things that make you happy as that stage, you're talking about the connection that comes from that stage. It is, but I have to admit, and like I said, I'm going through a divorce. I am heartbroken. So it is medicine for me, but I admit I'm kind of a couple person. So I feel kind of untethered now. So that's been a tough one for me to work through. But you know I make a joke saying I want to be the Golden Bachelorette and you know I just

made fun of it. But that's been a tough one. I don't know how afraid you are of being alone. I would think the last six years made you feel even more alone. Yes. So I don't like being alone. I like being with my buddies. I like having friends come over. I like going to visit my friends. I don't like, I don't love days where I'm just hanging out totally by myself. Sure if I'm exhausted, plus I have four dogs who keep me busy, but no I seek out friendships. I'm a big connection person. Whether it's somebody I know very well or a new friend or somebody I know very well or

a new friend or somebody I've known. My friend Tom, who's here with me, we've known each other 40 years. He was my high school boyfriend. And so he's here babysitting me in Florida because he lives in Orlando and he worked for Disney for many years. And so it helps me just to have coffee with Tom in the morning. Explain to me the babysitting. Explain to me the needs. It's key. It's key. So, okay. So first of all, I have the same agent as Dave Chapelle. Who's the goat? I'm not questioning that. Dave travels with 25 people. I gotta laugh. I travel with security, my tour manager, and I bring a babysitter, which really just means a friend to stay at the hotel with me

and just gossip or watch TV. We were watching the Trump trial coverage and having coffee. And that has been a game changer for me because my husband was my tour manager. So I admit it's been really hard to wake up alone every morning, to go to bed alone every night. Even if I don't miss him per se, I miss having a person. And so these babysitters that

come with me, I had the great E. Jean Carroll. And E. Jean was with me for a week. She's the one who just won the $88.3 million judgment against Trump. And out of the goodness of her heart, she came to three shows with me. She was backstage keeping me company. I bring one of my dogs with me on each leg of the tour. My dog Maggie is here. You met her. And that helps tremendously. So my babysitters are for me a game-changer. I don't think you'll need it forever, but for now I I need it, and it helps me tremendously. Maggie is named after your mother.

Yes. You lost her at 99 years. 99 years young during COVID. Now, she did not die of COVID, but we couldn't have a memorial. So you were very close? Very close. She was on my Life on the D-List.

I used to put her on camera whenever I could. I'd put her in my social media And she just she didn't know why she was funny. She was just funny. My dad was like comedian funny He could be funny on cue. My mom would just say crazy stuff and she loved her boxed wine and she loved her franzia and she Made fun of me and she she went to her deathbed wishing I would be a dental hygienist.

OK, I want to know about what scars she left. But I worked with my father on television. It was an enormous blessing. But also, he never actually considered me his boss. So I was always going to be his son. You know, there's a power struggle. There's a power struggle there. It was weird to me that there would be a power struggle

because he was doing the show in his second language and he knew nothing about sports and I was just asking him, come on, just be my dad. And he did wrestle me to the ground, stole the show from me. I'll never forgive him. Of course. But your relationship with your mother and how it is that she either approved of you or didn't shaped you.

How do you define, how would you explain the love of that relationship to others? It was old fashioned. Remember, she died at 99, so she went through World War II and everything. So in her era, it was tough love. Like my mom would say things to me like, you might be cute, but you never be pretty. And later on in life I go mom why would you say to your daughter you might be cute but you'll never be pretty? She goes because I wanted to save you from getting your hopes up. That is hilarious to me. That is just funny. I'm not saying it's nice. It's not great parenting. It's not great parenting. But she was a little tipsy. She was a little tipsy at the time, which means all the time. Okay, yes.

Well, this is why you didn't have a drink, right? I've never had a drink to this day. Because you saw its ravages? Yes. Okay, and what were its ravages? Well, I will say, my parents were functional drunks. My dad never lost his job. My mom never lost her job.

But let me tell you something, honey. It was five o'clock somewhere. And I could make a Tom Collins when I was eight years old, because they used to have the powder packets, and you put it in with some booze. And my dad would walk home, he used to work at Radio Shack, and he'd come home and he'd go, he would always call me, what do you call me?

Not Kitty, I think he, Dolly. He goes, because he used to say that because of five kids, he didn't want to memorize the names, so he called the girls Dolly and the boys Clyde. So he go, Dolly, make me a Tom Collins so I can make a Tom Collins at eight years old. I'm multi-talented. I'm not just hilarious and a humble legend. A humble, humble legend.

I'm just a down-to-earth icon. So America was better back then. We can just ask the eight-year-old, hey, Dolly. I can make a man-plot. I can make a Tom Collins. What did you make me a Tom Collins? I can make an old-fashioned. Okay, this is a horror, obviously.

Horror. And yet, I gave it to him, and I felt so important. I felt like I'm accomplished. That was more important than good grades to them. Okay, but they probably did some damage to you. They weren't necessarily attentive I'm not gonna that I was what you call a latchkey kid So both of my parents work because we were lower middle class and they both had full-time jobs So I walked to school walk back

I would come home watch the after-school special the boy in the plastic bubble or something right sure watch the Merv Griffin show or the Dinosaur show whatever apologize for any of that I'd be alone and then I would wait for mom and dad to come home neither one of them cooked so we dined on a dish called hamburger helper which is a dish predicated on the notion that hamburger needs help. That's right. And it comes with powder flavors. So it's hamburger, noodles, and powder beef stroganoff mix. And I thought it was delicious.

There was a McDonald's down the block, and my mom would give me a buck. And she goes, here's a buck. I should only give you 50 cents, but I'm feeling generous. Here's a buck. I should only give you 50 cents but I'm feeling generous. Here's a buck, go get dinner. I was a McDonald's kid. My parents were workaholics themselves. My dad worked retail 14 hours a day. My mom worked in a Catholic hospital. Those nuns ran her ragged. Those nuns could be vicious. They made you an atheist. They made you an atheist. I'm an atheist because of the nuns. I went to Catholic school, and those nuns and priests

turned me against it. And although, let me tell you, you can barely say that in America. When I play overseas and I say I'm an atheist, they'll clap. But in America, it's very touchy. It kills overseas? Because of those damn mega churches. What about when Joel Osteen, when they was having work done on his bathroom and they

break into the drywall and there was $70,000 cash in his drywall? Joel Osteen! You're damn right I'm an atheist! There are a number of different things that may be the reason for your laughter and where it is that comedy soothes you. I don't know exactly where it is came from or what it is that you were hiding from or running away from. I don't mean to say this in a bad way to my family but I was what you call an accident baby and my parents told me that constantly so my mom and dad used the rhythm method, which means no condoms,

and they hope that she's not ovulating. So my mom had me at 40, my dad was 45, and my whole life they were all, you know Kathleen, we were supposed to stop at four goddamn kids, but now you're an accident. So you better make something of yourself. Go be a dental hygienist.

And so now that would be considered so politically incorrect to tell a child, you're my accident. No, that's correct. Well, no, it's just, damn it. It's, again, bad parenting. It's bad parenting. It's bad. Let's call it what it is.

Let's call it what it is. It's objectively bad parenting. And I say that with respect to them. They did the best they could. They were a little tipsy. But yes, I am an accident. And so there's something about when you're told your whole life you're not gonna be pretty

and you're an accident. There's something that gave me that drive. And I knew it from when I was a kid. I never wanted to be anything else. When I was a little girl, I just thought, I wanna be the sidekick. I'd watch I Love Lucy and I wanted to be Ethel. I'd watch the Mary Tyler Moore Show. I wanted to be the sidekick. I'd watch I Love Lucy and I wanted to be Ethel.

I'd watch the Mary Tyler Moore show. I wanted to be Rhoda. I- You just wanted to be near it. I just, no, you know why? I thought the pretty girl doesn't get the funniest lines, but the sidekick gets in, gets the joke, gets the laughs, and then gets the fuck out of Dodge.

So I, I'm gonna name drop. I used to date Quentin Tarantino and I got in this sitcom called Sudly Susan and Brooke Shields was the star and I was the sidekick and I ran into Quentin and he goes, you did it! You're the sidekick to the pretty girl! You did it! Congratulations! And I said you're doing pretty well yourself Qu Quentin. But I love that he understood that. Kathy, you and Quentin dating is During Pulp Fiction. It's just.

During. But it's looning tunes, given how you're both built and given. Oh, what about the kid I banged from in sync? Lance. No, Lance, I turned gay. Lance was straight, then I turned gay. OK, my bad. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. My boy band stood. I'm talking about Joey, allegedly. OK. I did not know. You're still really cute. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. My boy bands about Joey allegedly. Okay. Um, I did not know still really cute I did not know that story you didn't need to it's too much information You weren't prepared for I wasn't I'm a little taken about I understand your what I do your Quentin Tarantino Though the two of those minds together working at that creative pace first of all, he was amazing. I never fucked him, but we

used to cuddle. We'd cuddle all night. And we would make fun of it because I would go, I'm not going to be some other actress that fucks you. I don't need you. And he would laugh because I was totally unknown. And he would say, I can fuck anybody. I don't need to fuck you either. So we would cuddle and we would talk. But he did something I just have to brag about. He took me to see Reservoir Dogs with him because I hadn't seen it and he was so offended. So it was showing at an art house.

He invited the entire cast and said, I'm going out with this girl who's never seen Reservoir Dogs. Can you believe it? Let's go watch it tonight at the New Beverly in Los Angeles. They came. I went to watch Reservoir Dogs with Quentin and the cast of Reservoir Dogs.

That's a good story. We went out to eat afterwards. And he was just trying to impress you. And I was making fun of them. And you liked the movie. I loved it. But I was making fun of Michael Madsen, who's nuts. And I was making fun of them. And you liked the movie. I loved it. But I was making fun of Michael Madsen, who's nuts. And I was making fun of Steve Buscemi, going,

is it Buscemi or Buscemi? Make up your mind. And I go, shouldn't you still be a fireman? Good God, Steve, get a steady job. And it meant so much that he did that. And he would call me at 3 in the morning when he was writing Pulp Fiction and say can I read some pages to you and he read pages. Oh wow so you got to be

both you both got to be genius adjacent yes crazy adjacent because Michael Matson didn't kill me which I thought was a win there I thought that was a win there and then Quentin cast me in three things. He gave me a couple lines in ER, he directed ER. He gave me three lines of Pulp Fiction. He may give me a lot of lines in a movie called Four Rooms, but I am so grateful to anybody like that

that would have the power to take a chance because it's not an easy sell. You know, I come with baggage, get a bellhop. What was the hardest part of coming up in comedy just as somebody who's a fighter? The guy's telling me I'm not funny. The guy's saying because you don't have a written act that has classic setup punchline, setup punchline. I tell stories and the guys would just say that you're not doing stand-up. And I'd say well I started in the theater and the theater used to let me open the play with a little

story from my week and it took like 10 minutes and that's when Lisa Kudrow came up to me and said you should do stand-up. But when I did the clubs, man those guys were tough in the 80s. I mean we're going back to the 80s. And I saw all their penises. I saw all their penises. I'm not going to name names, but if there's a guy in comedy who's within 10 years of my age, I saw his penis. Hey, Kath, want to see my wristwatch?

Yes, I see your wristwatch. So it's all Louis C.K. type of stuff? Type 2.0! It's, I saw a lot of penises that I didn't ask for. But in those days, we were so dumb. We girls didn't know that was inappropriate. We thought they were just being silly. It wasn't appropriate. I was wrong.

But that was just the way it was. But you were still an outsider, right? There weren't many of you. Trying to get in, banging on the door, let me in, give me a chance, give me a chance. There weren't many of outsider, right? There weren't many of you. Trying to get in, banging on the door, let me in, give me a chance, give me a chance. There weren't many of you, right? No. I mean, I came up with Margaret Cho,

and Margaret has a lot of struggles, and she has ups and downs. I came up with, I don't know, I wouldn't say Ellen. She was doing better than I. Rosie was already established. You know what's funny I didn't come up with that many girls that are still around let's be honest. Well it's hard it is hard to age with grace. Even girls that are over like 55 I could only name like about five like Wanda. Comedy age is hard it's hard for any comedians of any gender but I would imagine it would be even harder for women

And you have to stay sharp. So every minute I'm reading the paper cover to cover every minute I'm reading the gossip blogs every minute. Oh, it never stops your your You say you use the usual guy. I've done an assortment of things to try and slow down my mind my mind of things to try and slow down my mind. My mind gives me the illusion of control, and it can be a poison. There is good stuff that comes from it. Because it sometimes can convince your body

something's happening that isn't really happening. It can. Which is crazy making. It can create all sorts of fears, all sorts of things. But it does give me the illusion of control. I often trust it, but not for happiness. It's not something that I, I trust it to give me order. Right. But I would say that it has been a poison.

It's continual unspooling in the places. You have to keep an eye on it and work on it every minute. Because I don't know about you, but I can plummet fast. Well, you're talking, what I hear from you, and I don't know about you, but I can plummet fast. Well, you're talking, what I hear from you, and I don't, what I hear from you is that some of this stuff allows you to have a hiding place where you can think about these things, and they allow you to not think or feel

about the things that feel bad. You learn to be compartmentalized. Have you learned that? I don't have the conscious anxiety that you have that I have to hide from. Not conscious. I'm not saying I don't have it. I just don't rev at that speed on the anxiety. You're not like weird sweating on your butt crack and weird stuff. I mean with perform- I'm actually probably the reverse of you. If you put me on a stage in front of people,

that would not be a safe space for me. Well, that's normal. But I'm not a- I'm abnormal. No, but you're a performer. I am not. There's something that you crave from performance. I, the thing that I do sort of hides.

It's not in front of people that way. It's not on a stage reduced to, you expect me to be funny and you're the only one out there baby by yourself. You got a backup band you but I'm not as brave as you like you put me in that situation and the fear will grab me and submerge me. You live for that. I get submerged when I wake up at 8 in the morning. Typically I wake up at like 5 in the morning in the dark and I'm scared and I start shaking at 8 in the morning. Typically, I wake up at like 5 in the morning in the dark, and I'm scared and I start shaking,

and it's the whole thing. But no, when I go on stage, it's almost like the minute my shoes hit that stage, the buzzing that's been with me all day goes away. And I'm talking to my friends. And then after the shows, I feel fine. And so believe it or not, it's very hard for me to eat during the day because my stomach is so sick.

But I usually, this is not healthy. I usually have my good meal after a show because I don't feel that buzzing, heart palpitating, terrible, am I gonna throw up? Like, so I'm sorry to gross out your listeners and viewers. It's just such an amazing hiding place for your life, but it must be a place that you have to run to. Yes.

That's. I want to hear Kleenex box, I'm sorry. That's okay, that you have to. It's a metaphor for what I've done to show business. It's a cheap, how do we not do better with the things around here? Where's the celebrity Kleenex for God's sake? I'm a humble legend.

We need these, we need these. Everybody's crying around here and we've got a... This thing... Look at this. Look at this. Come on. The woman's worked at the height of entertainment. She knows important people. I slept with a kid from NSYNC. Give her good tissues. Nobody else here slept with anybody from NSYNC. I guarantee you that much.

You don't know that. Well learned. You don't know that. It's presumptuous of you. I think we should ask afterwards. The life that takes you from your parents into comedy. Well, also into LA, not knowing a soul. So when people talk about nipple babies, yeah, that's a real thing. But let's-

I was never on a set. Let's talk about how- I was an extra for $25 a day for years. Let's talk about how tough you had to be to chase what it is that you decided to chase. I was so stupid. I would walk into casting offices not knowing that they have to call you.

And I'd have some just the best picture I had of myself. Hi, my name is Kathy Griffith. Griffith. Griffin. Even then. My name is Kathy Griffin. I'm an actress. I would love to work. And they'd go, who are you? You don't have an appointment? And I would just do stuff like that. I'd walk into William Morris and give them a picture and go, Hi, I'm Kathy Griffin. Are you hiring any actress today?

Like I didn't know a thing. I was 18. Do you know that you're brave and strong? Do you know that? No, I feel like a weak mush. I cry at commercials. I can't watch the ASPCA. In the arms of a... You don't think you're brave and strong? I have four dogs already.

I can't adopt 200 more, which is what I wish I could. You don't think you're brave and strong? I think I do what I have to do. I wish I could say brave and strong but I think I do put my one foot in front of the other. So you can't, what you're telling me is that... I hear my mom going don't be so high and mighty calling yourself brave and strong. Well, you've overcome a lot. So what is, I mean, what is strength if not? Resilient. That's what I like when people say that I'm resilient. Because that it's like, okay, good. That's not such a high and mighty word. And I got freaking half along. I'm resilient.

Bravery is not the absence of fear. I don't, it's, it's the ability. The fear is there. To overcome it though. And, and, and so when I look at the things you do and you've been and the things that you overcome because you clearly have an anxiety that plagues you that comes from, I didn't used to have it before the Trump thing. I didn't have it. So it's this new thing that I deal with that.

Like I said, it's so physical. You, uh, that, like I said, is so physical. You, so you would say for the people who do not know the earlier parts of your career, you revved high, but not this high, correct? Correct. You have been damaged. I was on a sitcom and then I didn't work for a while and that wasn't fun. But then I started doing more stand up and then I got my life on the D-list. So truthfully, to be honest, while I was a late bloomer, my career trajectory was pretty much on an

upswing. And then the Trump thing was boom! Down in the basement, all the repercussions, and something that I genuinely didn't see coming. So being alone with that, with your identity being stamped out as somebody who liked being famous, who made fun of being famous, it's enough to make you want to end your life. Oh yeah, the invites stopped, the phone calls stopped. It just, and like I say,

I'm not advocating obviously for suicide, it's not the answer ever, but in that crazy place I was in which I want to just reiterate was drug-fueled I really thought okay this kind of makes sense now now that I'm a sober person my brain would stop and go Kathy this is gonna pass oh but this has to speak to so many people in our audience because of the opioid epidemic, because of how easy it is to not be aware

that you're getting addicted to these things. I never meant to. I took sleeping pills because I couldn't sleep and my schedule was one morning it's early, then it's late. Then I took painkillers because I got injuries over the years, falling down on stage or falling, whatever.

And then I took Adderall because I'd be exhausted and I thought oh this was they were handing it out like candy so I really never I never bought street brought street bought street drugs I'm not judging I'm just saying I never bought street drugs I honestly just got these from doctors and And then I admit, I then started asking for more than I needed and I wanted to numb myself out. To escape everything. Yes.

Self-medicating. Yes. And getting, and you were able to get as much as you wanted because you're Kathy Griffin, because you have money. Yeah, I went to doctors all over Beverly Hills. And I just have to say, and I don't mean to be political, I think it's a crime in this country that we incarcerate people just because they're addicts. Now, if they're selling drugs, that's different, but people that just, they can't get off meth,

they can't get off heroin, and so they fall asleep on the sidewalk or something. But the fact that if a cop catches you holding heroin, you know, it breaks my heart that we put people in incarceration because I have the benefit of AA. Most of my friends, I didn't go to rehab because it was COVID, but, you know, we have other options. So I just want to put my two cents in there. I wish we would stop imprisoning people who need help off. They're not criminals.

They don't want to rob a bank. They don't want to assault you. They just want their freaking oxy or whatever their drug of choice is. You would say the most simplistic thing that you would say is, this is a sickness that I didn't realize I was signing up for. Absolutely. I didn't realize. Remember, I've never had a drink to this day.

I didn't realize how it would grab a hold of me. I didn't think I could be an addict of any kind. You were afraid of alcoholism and you don't, you're not self-aware enough while you're going through the trauma of what you're going through to know, of course, these meds are helping my mood. I may as well have been drinking because I was trying to do the same thing, but in my mind I'm sitting home by myself. I got the president tweeting about me.

I got the first lady tweeting about me. I got, you know, this whole my own industry saying, don't call, leave us alone. I had one network say, I like you, I know you earn a lot of money for companies, but we have the whole middle of the country and they're Trumpers and you're considered toxic. And he said, I'm just, and you know what? I'm glad he was honest with me because it hurts

when they just keep saying no thanks. And you're like, huh, can we have a reason? And I was grateful when that one network executive said that to me, because at least I thought, okay, now I know what I'm dealing with. And so I thought, I don't wanna do a show about Trump. So like I said, my new show, I don't even mention Trump. I mean, if he farts in court,

I might say one line about that because that's heaven, that's comedy gold. Is it heaven, Kathy? Fartarts in court, I might say one line about that, because that's heaven, that's comedy gold. Farting in court. Is it heaven, Kathy? Is it heaven, Kathy? It's audibly farting. Kathy, you've been in comedy a long time. Is it heaven for Trump farting in court?

You're saying it's heaven. No, the best part is. It's not my heaven, Kathy. The best part is the newscasters don't know how to say it. So they love saying things like, and another note, today's coverage is also about his fellow counsel and how they would move their chairs at least two feet away from the former president without explanation because they can't come out and say the guy's farting.

Okay. You are, you are, you are a brave truth teller. I didn't say it wasn't funny. What I said is it's not heaven. No, it's not heaven. It's very much not. And it's not highbrow. I'm not acting like I'm some highbrow comic. Oh, no. But it's funny. No, we were talking just recently on our show whether the fart was the original joke before anybody was able to speak.

Was it the first joke? I don't know. But it seems like a good nominating. It's up there. It's got to be. It's up there. It's got to be. It's up. It's gotta be.

Um, the, the thing that you had happen to you over the last six years, I don't know that we have properly explained to people because you're, you've named the tour after the PTSD of, of, Yes, Kathy Griffin, My Life on the PTSD list. That you're on the list because you want to show people what here at what represents, you know, you've been, if you're dealing with the cancer that you've dealt with, you've been on the brink of mortality and back, you're doing life and death. And the diagnosis is really something, you know, so it's the type of thing you fear about

your own, you fear your own life and then a doctor's going, you have cancer. So I talk about that stuff. I even talk about trying to off myself, but I say to the audience, don't be scared. I promise it was so over the top. I'll make it funny and they hang with me. And that's amazing to me because I'm definitely talking about topics that when I was younger was told, oh no, you can't ever make a cancer joke. Well, if it's about myself, I can make it. So that's the only thing I know how to do is take whatever craziness is happening in my life and try to put it in some sort of funny setting. But I don't tell jokes that like, I don't have writers. I've never had a writer. I know comics that have people write their entire special.

Entire special! Why be a comic if you're not writing your own stuff? That's the fun part. Well, you have written and produced all of your... 21 specials. World record. I made it 23 at the start. I love that.

I think, well, because I thought it was 20, and then I saw in your Twitter bio that it said 23. Because some are televised and some are audio only. Okay, regardless, it's more than anyone ever has done. Male or female, living or dead, baby. And what are the reactions of other comics to you? It is a small world. It's an insecure world. It's a judgmental world.

I'm sure people say to you, well, you're not doing it the way that it's done by hitting those notes, but how have you been received in that world outside of the deals, what you've had to deal with because men can be cavemen? Men can be cavemen, but also, I'm just going to be honest, I'm kind of shunned by my community. Like, I, you know, I'm not invited to the festivals. I'm not invited to the parties. One reason is my fault because I tour alone. So if I was touring with like a lot of comics tour

with five comics, I honestly, I probably know more journalists and politicians than comics at this point. But when I was younger and unknown, I loved it. It was Jeanine Garofalo and Margaret Cho and Bob Odenkirk and David Cross and, you know, Louis C.K. and Adam Sandler and David Spade. And being around those guys was really fucking fun. Really fun. But to be honest, I don't think it would occur to them to cast me in something. I don't think they'd think of me like Sarah Silverman.

They all wanted to sleep with Sarah and all were in love with her. Remember, I'm cute but not pretty. And so a lot of times I'd be talking to a comic and 10 minutes in he'd go, by the way, do you have Sarah's number? I gave out Sarah Silverman's phone number more than Sarah gave it out.

And I love her, she's a friend of mine, and she's awesome, and she's paid her dues. But I'm gonna be honest, I'm not at the Netflix as a joke. Everybody's, I'm getting pictures from people, everyone's showing me... I'm not in that crowd. You know, I'm getting pictures from people, everyone's showing me, I'm not in that crowd. You know, I'm banned from most talk shows.

Still, I'm banned from Kelly and Mark. I haven't been on The Tonight Show since Jimmy Fallon. I have nothing against him. Pretty much Jimmy Kimmel and Seth Meyers, oh, but I'm back on The View, and I think the cancer was key. Because they, you know, I could croak. I could croak during this interview.

Let's why, why were you on the view for such a short period of time? It was right after Rosie O'Donnell, right? Well, I was on twice. I was on many times with Barbara Walters who was scary as hell, but I loved her and they offered me the job to co-host and I didn't take it because I was making so much more money

on the road and I said to Barbara Walters here's the math because I don't want you to think I'm ungrateful and she was still furious but then they had me co-host countless times and then I was on the day after the Rosie O'Donnell Elizabeth Hasselbeck fight and let let me tell you, that was wild. And Barbara said to me, Kathy, no matter what you do, don't bring up Wozze and Elizabeth. I brought it up every five minutes. She was kicking me under the table.

I have bruises to this day. That's a pretty good Barbara. Kathy, you promised. You promised you wouldn't bring up Wozze. You enjoyed frazzling her. I loved it. You enjoyed it. And I love live I loved it. You enjoyed doing it. And I love live TV.

You did it to Andy Cohen. Yes. And you did it. All of them. And Anderson Cooper. What is your relationship with those two? Well, Andy Cohen, I would say, is not a fan. There's a tape of him on TMZ saying he doesn't even

know me in a way that's not very kind. You know, he's probably the reason I'm not at Bravo anymore, which makes me sad because I really loved it there. Um, but I also will be honest. One thing that I've created for myself is I didn't understand that being a chick, you can't negotiate the way the guys do. I would go to the head of the studio or network, including Jeff Zucker, who used to run CNN and NBC, and I would personally ask for a raise

because my agents didn't want to piss him off. Years of... I'm not... Look, I get in fights with executives. I'm gonna fight with Elon Musk. Elon Musk and I are fighting. I'm gonna fight with Elon Musk. Elon Musk and I are fighting. I am beefing with Elon. That's right. I can't help it.

I can't help myself. I asked you though about Andy Cohen. I asked you about your relationship with him and what happened there. We don't have one. If you don't wanna talk about it, it's fine. If it's a bad subject, I don't mean to. It hurts because, look, he's a very powerful guy he really is and you

know I I think he wasn't in my corner maybe he thought I was too demanding because as the producer of my life on the D-list, I would fight for stuff. And I would hear my guy comic friends fighting, and I was like, oh, that's what you do. Unfortunately, I don't think... Okay, I'm just gonna say it. I don't think they treat women the same. And so I think what I was calling, I was difficult. So, my relationship, my reputation in Hollywood is that I'm expensive

because I try to get what the guys get and I'm difficult because if I'm doing a special, I want this kind of music, I want this kind of effect. I'm trying to make the show as good as possible and frankly, I feel like I have enough experience that you're not listening to some 18 year old who just got out of high school. But that's probably why I have enemies is part of it was me thinking, oh, these guys are tough. And I think they weren't used to women talking to them that way. Given how much Bravo means to you and given how Andy sort of runs Bravo, did I hit something that hurt you because?

It hurts because I think he does run Bravo, even though he kind of acts like he doesn't. And I think one thing that hurts is I think he just didn't care for me anymore. And that hurts because it's almost like losing a friend. And I got them six Emmy nominations, two Emmy wins. He's very involved in the Housewives. I was just doing my show before the Housewives

and I think he makes the decisions there and I wish he didn't feel that way about me. When would you describe yourself as most anxiety free or just happiest doing this? Working and knowing work is coming up. But I'm saying at what time in your life? Was there a time, was there a period? When I was doing the D-list and I was doing two specials a year on Bravo and I was touring like a beast, it was heaven.

I was younger, it didn't, you know, take its toll on my body. I was living the dream. I was selling out everywhere. That was amazing. So the late 90s and the 2000s and into the 2010s and really until like 2016. And so that was a long fantastic heyday that I'm very grateful for. So is there still something to prove? Oh yeah. I still have to prove I'm good enough. I still have to prove I can be as funny as a guy. I still have to prove I can sell tickets. I still have to prove I can get clicks. I still have to prove I can get social media followers, get viewers. I mean it's never ending. It's exhausting though, is it not?

You gotta do it all. I don't know how to edit. I have exhausting though, is it not? You gotta do it all. I don't know how to edit. I have to have these girls in their 20s do my social media. You have to keep up. You have to keep up. Oh my god, you gotta be an editor. You gotta be a selling person. You gotta be a camera person.

I'm just trying to be funnier. The hustle is difficult at this age. Like the daily hustle of jumping from city to city, of touring, of worrying about whether you're selling out. I just did an interview for my show coming up from Long Island Woman Magazine, which I'll be honest, I never heard of. I am doing college newspapers.

I'm doing Good Morning Cleveland. I'm doing afternoon drives. Hungry as you've ever been. Hungry as the wolf, yes. Hustling the way that you did in your... Like Joan Rivers taught me, because I watched Joan go through ebbs and flows, and she handled it with such grace, and she never lost sight of how much she loved it. And she taught me a lot. I watched Rickles. Rickles, you know, people don't know this, but Rickles was very wounded by the people that thought he was a mean comic,

when really he was just poking fun at people and having fun with them, and you couldn't find a nicer guy. You couldn't find a nicer guy. If I were to ask you for Mount Rushmore, you can only choose four of them. Stand-up comics for all time. You only get four though,

and I am gonna kill you here. Yes, because you can't have a fifth and I but you I feel like you appreciate the art of it and even if your style is different the sculpting the music in it who's a consummate professional and the ability to evolve and change so obviously Joan and Rickles and The last two are really gonna be art. So I'm just gonna almost pick two names out of a hat. I probably put Wanda, Sykes. I think she's a goat. And I got a throw in Dave,

even though I wish he wouldn't talk about trans issues so much, but I got a throw in Chappelle. And the last time I saw him live, it was just, he was on fire. He, uh, he is somebody that I've heard comics beyond just that wish that he had done more to sharpen everything he's been in the last 15 years because it's so natural to him because such a storyteller so good and he makes anything funny but the last 15 years beyond the the the fame elements

and wherever it is that all of that gets shaky and this joke that he keeps making because he wants the last word on it you as somebody who has represented on behalf of a community LGBT community yeah I I'm just saying I'm surprised that you can separate art from artists and I know you're not gonna listen to Kathy Griffin tie out her to your act. I'm just saying mentioning the trans community three times in specials. I don't know that Dave understands.

This is the number one community at danger of being a fascinated, murdered, beaten, beaten to death and mutilated around the world, around the world. a trans person of any race, color, or creed. And that's the only reason I want him to just move on from that topic. But I haven't talked to him about it. He's not going to listen to me. He shouldn't listen to me.

But as someone who's an ally, I just kind of wish he maybe would understand. This is a community that like, it's punching down. It's punching down. This is a community where these kids are getting beaten to death. Is there a worse way to go? And Dave probably doesn't know that he's not in touch with the community. I have gay folks at all my shows.

And I have women with trans kids and guys with trans kids. And so just knowing it's such a vulnerable community, that's the only, I'm not trying to dump on Dave. I'm not. He, I've seen him do some of the best standup I've ever seen in my life. Just wish you would stop talking about trans folks. But explain to us what the advocacy has meant to you, because these are now your constituency, your community,

your customers, but you mean something to the gay community for a reason and that relationship is very meaningful to you. It's genuine. I mean, I'm here with my high school boyfriend, Tom, who's now married to a man. So which came first, the chicken or the egg? Was he born gay or did I turn him gay? You know, we'll just never know. We'll leave that to our maker.

But I tease about all the topics because I think the gay folks that come to my show know I've been in this for decades. You know, I used to open my specials with, where are my gays at? And some of the gays get mad at me and they say you shouldn't use the possessive my gays. And I say, well, honey, when I started,

the word wasn't gay. It was a much worse word. Everybody used it. And so keep a little perspective and just have fun. But I mean, LGBT, all inclusive folks, everybody's welcome. Like you said, it's a safe space. Before we get you out of here, and I appreciate, LGBT, all inclusive folks, everybody's welcome. Like you said, it's a safe space. Before we get you out of here, and I appreciate your time,

I will tell the people my life on the PTSD list. The tour is performing across the country with shows into 2025. KathyGriffin.com is where you go for dates, for tickets. You mentioned Joan Rivers and your relationship with her. Similarly, she seemed very neurotic. I don't know how similar your upbringings were. I don't know how much of a mirror she was for you

in being someone who broke down the late night door that must have had even more men in front of it and even more misogyny in front of it. I don't know how she dealt with it. I know that when Johnny Carson broke up with her she was heartbroken till the day she died about that because she really loved Johnny Carson and felt she owed him. But people don't know this. She also saw the list of people that were to replace Johnny when he retired and it was a list of I think 12 guys. She wasn't even on the list of people that were to replace Johnny when he retired. And it was a list of, I think, 12 guys. She wasn't even on the list.

So she got a call from Fox, and she called Johnny and said, can I have your blessing? He hung up the phone on her. And when she told me that story, which she later went on to tell on stage, so I'm not, you know, betraying your confidence. I kind of understand that with Anderson Cooper, with Andy Cohen.

I kind of get that, like, oh, I was wrong about this relationship. I was facing it one way, and the other party didn't feel that way. And I saw her have to work harder and jump higher. I went to Howard Stern's 60th birthday party Joan got up there and killed she killed and

So many times she didn't give an F she didn't have enough left to give and it's one of the reasons I think people loved her because She made fun of herself more than anything. She made fun of everybody now Obviously a lot of those jokes she wouldn't do today. It was a different time. Same with Rickles. Same with all the greats. Same with Richard Pryor. But just keep some perspective because I learned so much watching her go through ups and downs and she just would stay centered on the work and even in our last dinner together

before she passed away, she would stop the meal and go, aren't we lucky? Aren't we lucky? Look at what we get to do for a living. We're lucky. And she would say that every time we had lunch or dinner and it was heaven. It's crazy, but you were and are fortunate to be

able to make a living around laughter. Whatever it is that you connected with, I believe what happened there is accurate. She went to compete against Johnny, and Johnny never forgave it, even though Johnny gave her the opportunity, and she was the one who guest-hosted more than anyone.

And so she went to get her own path, and so what you're saying is, even the men that are on your side sometimes, hosted more than anyone, right? And so she went to get her own path. And so what you're saying is even the men that are on your side sometimes, you don't totally know that they're gonna try. Your experience isn't that they actually lift you up so that you can soar. I cannot, I wish I could say that, but I can't.

I can't say the guys in my career have lifted me up. I can't, I wish I could. Now I've been lucky. I've had a couple good agents and a good lawyer over many years, but it's very rare. And, you know, it's funny, I watch these comics and celebrities always come to their shows. Celebrities don't go to my shows. I mean, every once in a while, but I still do feel like an outsider looking in. And I think that's what I identify with about the D-List.

It's why I'll never be A-List, which is okay, because I can kind of walk around and have a life. But the D-List is right where I belong. There is something a bit, no matter whether we accept it or not, demoralizing about chasing from youth, your mother saying, cute, but never pretty, and then going through life trying to make yourself matter

in this world. Famous matter, funny. Where everyone seems to be against you and you feel alone, you feel like a little bit of an outcast. You want to share with babysitters because you don't wanna be alone like that. There is a piece of you that I hurt for you because it sounds like it's been alone too long.

Even as you find all these places to connect where you have really emotional relationship with people who care for you, there's still a loneliness in it in a way that is heartbreaking, even around the laughter. Yeah, and that's what's been difficult. It will pass, but about my divorce, my husband was my tour manager.

So you know, I'm used to going to bed with somebody in a hotel or at home, waking up with somebody in a hotel or at home. So that part made a difference. And like I said, I kind of liked having a person, you know, and so that part has been an adjustment. I'm not going to lie, but it'll take time. It's only been three and a half months and it'll take time and I'll get there but thank God for this tour I'm so happy to have a show tonight and tomorrow night and the next

night I can't tell you before we leave what would you tell us about love that you've learned from love learned from relationships whether it's love of your mother love of your siblings love of men you've divorced I'd whether it's love of your mother, love of your siblings, love of men you've divorced. I'd say it's if somebody that you're with, you can really be yourself. Really be yourself. And both parties. So girls make jokes about, you know,

my ears and curlers or something. But same with the guy. So the guy can just really be himself. And also, what my parents did have was they had a mutual respect for each other. My dad thought my mom was the greatest woman in the world, and my mom thought my dad was the greatest guy in the world.

And I think I did not necessarily have that. I've had some good boyfriends over the years. I'm not bitching. But I think that's key is a mutual respect and to think the other one is the best you is the best person you could be with I think I do I have this wrong that one of your Husbands stole seventy thousand dollars from you. Do I have this wrong that you know that you? Okay, just because broken it's my pickers broken. It's never been any good

My picker's broken. My picker's broken. It's never been any good? I need... You've got comedians wandering around you. They love funny women. I hope so. They love women who understand the insecurities of funny men. I'm telling you Golden Bachelorette, I'm ready. Call me ABC.

All right. Thank you, Cathy. You are a delight. You've been a delight for many years. CathyGriffin.com for dates and tickets. I appreciate so much you sharing your story with us. It seems like your laughter is earned young lady. Good! Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.