The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - South Beach Sessions - Lamar Odom

Episode Date: August 27, 2026

“It's all about the comeback.” Lamar Odom has lived through extraordinary highs and devastating lows - and he speaks about all of it with remarkable honesty. In this deeply personal conversation, Lamar reflects with Dan Le Batard on losing his mother at 12, finding purpose through basketball, addiction, grief, faith, and surviving 12 strokes and six heart attacks. Lamar relives waking up three days after entering a bar, unable to walk or talk, and being told he might never do either again. Now, Lamar shares with Dan that he sees his story as a responsibility: to use what he survived to help someone else find their way back. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to Draft Kings Network. Hello and welcome to South Beach sessions. I'm very excited about this. I've been wanting to do this for a very long time here. Lamar Odom, when he was in Miami, was a lot of different things, fun at basketball, obviously, but vulnerable, willing to talk about himself in ways that are open. He's an open book, two-time champion, sixth man, extraordinary.

It's nice to see you, Lamar. What's up, man? How are you doing? You're getting a call already. Yeah, I can. I'm really good. I'm a good place. Healthy. Feeling good. How are you spiritually? Amazingly great. Faithful all the time to the Lord. Just being my best self every day or trying to, trying to get some business done. How would you tell people what your Miami experience was? Because what I remember from your Miami experience is that everybody fell in love with that 42 and 40 team.

and that they were very upset to see you go, even though you were being traded for Shaquille O'Neal. Yeah, that's a big deal, right? I think as far as basketball is concerned, it was probably life-changing. Yeah. As far as the beginning of a basketball journey, well, it wasn't the beginning of my basketball journey,

but I guess the stage or phase, it was life-changing for me. What was the culture shock like for you going from the Clippers organization to something as regimented? Extreme discipline. Yeah, I owe a lot to Pat Riley for having that faith in me. You know, we caught me and Duane, caught the Miami Heat when they got tired of, you know, getting an ass kick because they worked so hard. I could just remember my first, you know, months down there, I was like, I thought my name was motherfucker, really, like, it was serious.

And, but it taught me that, you know, you can learn, especially when you're willing to and change, bad habits. Well, when we sat down here, you were saying you missed the discipline. Yeah, I miss it now. You know, for me, my life journey, I try to just be my best self every day. That's what I can do, you know, all I can do, I've been to so much, right? You know, physically, probably a walking miracle. No, I am a walking miracle.

I don't know if you can, you know, ever going to meet somebody to survive physically. But, you know, also mentally. you know right it'd be hard for a lot of people to um you know show face you know after um you know being um what i what i what i've been to but you know hopefully my um you know my story um helps people um you know get out of that dark place that dark place of addiction and you know you can and overcome it even, you know, when you count it out, like I was, you know, my family, you know, more than one time, you know, told, you know,

say your final goodbyes to Lamar. You know, but I'm here talking to you. And, you know, when I woke up, you know, the doctors, you know, told me I probably wouldn't even, you know, walk or talk again, you know, after 12 strokes and six heart attacks. You know, but I think the reason where I was spared because probably my faith in God.

And I don't think someone would, um, as faith as strong as my, um, was going to be taken, especially after the night that, you know, I didn't even do drugs that night then.

You know, I was, I was depressed. If I did, if I had cocaine on me that night, I definitely would have taken it. You know, I just, you know,

signed a divorce paper from, you know, Chloe. And, um, you know, I guess my honest to guard, true but I think the reason why God saved me I don't know for I mean I don't know I'm still you know really finding out but as I start to find out more and more as uh you know live clean

and you know meet people and you know meeting you know people who can you know change my life you know every day and um so um I guess living life the best way I think is my reward 12 strokes and six heart attacks is a crazy thing to come out of your mouth. That's the truth. I know, no. I know that untold you told the story very well. You gave them the most open version of yourself. What do you remember from 12 strokes and six heart attacks?

Is there any memory in that? It was all black. I remember when I woke up, it was, I was, when I woke up, I still got this mark in my neck. from tearing the tube and shit out of my neck and my mouth. Because they say when you wake up from a situation like that, you're in shock. But I don't remember much. What do you remember about before that, like the moments before anything?

I remember going to the brothel sitting down and having a drink and then waking up three days later. And for an attic or somebody that liked the party, I was like, that must have been some good shit to knock me out for three days. And, you know, when I woke up, I'd say the scariest part was not being able to talk. You know what I mean? Like me and you can sit here and thoughts come to our mind and words come out of our mouth when we think. I would say that probably was the most scariest part.

How long before you were able to talk? Shit, I forgot. Man, it's been so long. And so much, you know, going on in my life since then. for maybe like three or four months to walk and talk again. I started to walk and talk so fast. I didn't really finish my cognitive therapy. And so far as like, you know, that's why, you know,

just like reading a book, it's like gym workout for me. How were you changed by it? Of course, I really like, I care more about myself. You know, care more about my health and, you know, what my health means to my family. family and people that I really love them. Is there a way for you to articulate, because I want to talk about the entirety of your life, but if you were trying to explain your first 12 years, 14 years to people, what are the

signposts and the landmarks that you would talk about as the things that shaped you from there? Oh, that's easy. Probably my mother passing away. You lost her at 12, right? When I was 12, how that shaped me and frame me athletically and academically. I would really increase my faith in God. And I think at that time it grew me closer to my family.

you know, into God. Gave me purpose. Those are positive things to come from that. Yeah. I would think that the things associated with... My life is... That's how I always, you know, think. My glass, I was raised.

She was positive, right? Yeah. I was raised to think. My glass is always half full. I mean, think about that, if you know, if you wake up at a, had a brothel, if you go to a brothel and you're married to a woman who I was married to and you go and you go to hang out because you got divorced and you wake up three days later and when you wake up,

you got doctors in your face telling that you're never going to walk or talk again. How are you going to get out of that if your glass is not at least full, you know, when you pour it. It's the power of God, manifestation, you know, belief. Being an athlete is like if the ball gets swung in me, I got a note that's going in before I shoot it, before I shoot it.

What can you tell me about how she raised you the 12 years she had with you? Oh, man. Just to be support, what you love, you know, be happy and, you know, move with grace. Because you were, in Miami, you seemed very happy. You seemed to have been liberated. You came with some baggage, right?

Yeah, that's marijuana joints, right? The simple stuff. Yeah, it was looked at differently back in 19. I forgot when I got suspended 2001 or 2003. You might as well told people that I was, you know, sniffing cocaine in the locker room. But my perception is a moment. motherfucker right and yeah everybody knew I had it though you know like I said before I always played the game from a point guard's point of view you know I had a love for

the game that was you know it's obvious I think you know being on the team that people expect is loose right I was on a team that lost 20 games in a row by 20 games in a row by 20. So for a kid that was used to winning most games that he played in, whether it was football or pee-wee football or basketball, hitting the game against Temple, just used to winning because of my mentality. It was great.

Miami was like a breath of fresh air. What was the Clippers experience like? I just wanted to win. So playing on the team that was expected to lose, it was tough. Got a lot of technical fouls and a lot of offensive fouls. I didn't think that were offensive fouls. You know, and it's tough when you, I mean, just think about, you know, being that young and losing 20 games in a row about 20.

It could be depressing. Especially because you'd done mostly just winning before that, right? All the winning. Like I said before, whether it was Peebee football or AAU, right? I played with Elton Brayn, we're on our tests, and, you know, Eric Bockeley. Basketball was what to you in terms of savior rescuing you? No, that's exactly what it was. I remember when my mom's died, I just went out and shot the ball all night, like till the

sun came up. I mean, when I was like 10 years old, I kind of put in my mind that I was going to make it to the NBA one day. And I was David Stern was going to call my name. I kind of made that pack with myself. So unsurprising to you when you get drafted fourth in the first round probably thought you should have gone higher. I should have went number one.

Yeah. If you think about skill level and, you know, how the game played the right way, yeah, I should have went number one. How did you end up at Rhode Island? What's the real story? Oh, you know, got caught for cheating on my SAT. I don't, did that get caught for cheating on the SAT now? I don't even know how that goes now, right?

I never see that come out the bottom of the screen anymore. Yeah, I got caught cheating on my SAT. I don't even think kids get ruled academically and eligible anymore. I never see that on the bottom of the screen anymore. That's pretty good. And they're, you know, really good spot. They're getting, what would you call NIL? I would assume...

Financial retributions. I would assume that part of the reason that you ended up at Rhode Island because it was a really unusual place was because somebody was taking care of you. And I wouldn't have thought anything other either. Yeah, well, I was number one playing the country. You know, me and T-Mack, 1A and 1B. He got USA Today and I got Parade Magazine, Player of the Year, 1997. What was life like back then?

What do you remember of that time? Is it just a... Well, I don't have any bills. You know what I mean? So it's just, you know, hope and life and a lot of learning. Were you happy, though, because you've described some of your past as a cesspool of trauma. And I always have always, that's life, though. Just, you know, just matters on your path.

The road that you're chosen to walk down, damn, right? You know, my son passed away in 2006. He was six months old. You know what I mean? You know, it don't get any realer than that. No, that changes you. Yeah, shit, I'm okay. I'm a man, right?

Think about his mother. Well, I don't think it's easy for anybody. I believe me, it ain't. You ain't. But, you know, maturity, who knows when is going to come. or how it's going to come. But some of us, even when it's supposed to come. You were a kid, though, for how long, though?

I don't imagine that... Well, it's a part of me that's really still a... I'm still a kid, right? That's probably one of the reasons why I'm probably going to live, so I'm 120. Because every day feels like yesterday. In what ways are you an adult, though? I would think the things that you're talking about

with grief would be things that would make you mature. Yeah, well, I think, though, what makes me an adult now is the last... that I can pass down to my children. Like? Dealing with the loss, you know, like just losses. Like you're not going to have everything forever, whether it's me or your mother.

I don't have very much experience with that. The people who listen to this show know that I lost my little brother three years ago and it was the greatest trauma of my life. Like just no expectation of it. Sorry to hear that. Thank you. You are very familiar with this particular. subject matter, though. Too familiar, I would say.

About, like, who knows? Is that a blessing or a curse? Or, like, you know, do you still have your mom and your dad? I do, yes. But my wife just lost her father and now doesn't have either one of her parents. And so there's grief in the home right now in a way that's just knocks everything sideways. Like, I'm not equipped. I don't feel strong. I don't, I don't feel like I can help her very much. Well, I'm going to let you know. Like from a man's perspective, like, if it makes you cry, I cry. Oh, I got no problem with that.

Do you? About certain things. I would think that given that I would think growing up in sports, man and black, that it would be a long time before you cried for the first time just culturally based on them. Yeah, you're right. I mean, you're right. You're right. I tend to find men to be pretty repressed in this area.

100%. But I could tell you from experience. Well, what have you learned, though? I would actually like to know. I mean, you know, I never even let myself really sit there and cry about my son. But I think because of the position that I take in my family, like for some stupid reason, right? And you think you have to, you know, to be tough and suppress. You just gave me the advice of let yourself do it.

Yeah, but, you know, this contradiction, that's life. How is it that you maintained, it wasn't a mask, right, of happiness or optimism or glass-half-full when you're saying, when you're describing your cesspool of trauma, the path, just taught by your mother, there have to be other things here that are allowing you to be that, to summon that, the positivity. How? how? Were you wearing a mask or were you actually happy? When? I'm going to say from let's say 12 to Oh, no, I was happy. I've always been a happy person

or a happy kid, especially when I was, you know, young. No precious, you know, being a kid. Should I probably chop my left ball off? My left ball off right now. Who was your support? My grandmother. And my mother's mother. And how did she do that?

What was she supplying? Genuine love. My grandmother was born in Georgia, 1923. And, you know, she didn't have one racist bone in her body. She went back to college and graduated at 50 years old. She was the only reason why I probably didn't go to MBA out of high school. Because what was she saying? She was just.

Well, she valued. education, you know, that much. And when my mother passed away when I was in eighth grade, seventh grade, eighth grade, I kind of like, for some dumb-ass reason, I like just put school on a backburn. I never really, even when I can do the work, never really applied myself like I should have. And, you know, now being, you know, 46, 20, how many years after the league? 10 years, 15 years after the league, I value education just. as much as she did.

Well, you say for some dumb-ass reading, there was a lack of guidance, and you were having... No, I was 12 years old. You know, probably we went through the most trauma that a person could go through. That's what I was talking about, you know, I guess you could say, I don't know how I'll react if my mother passed away at 35.

If I was 35, if she passed away. You know. But, yeah, shit is real, man. What was your grandmother supplying, though, when you think of her? Oh, she was, you know, Jesus lover. We went to church. You know, even when my mother was here, that was instilled in us at a young age. And then, you know, my faith was still, even before then,

over things that I've seen when I was young growing up. It's unexplainable. I don't know. I think about that a lot of times and I think about my path in life. I don't know. It's kind of crazy. All right, guys, you know me.

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South Beach for up to 35% off your entire first order. That's live momentus.com promo code South Beach for up to 35% off your entire first order. Live momentous.com promo code South Beach. Do you spend any time sort of being introspective or examining how all of this loss has made you who you are, how it changes you, how appreciative you are of moments? Or is it easier to just try not to think about it because who? No, how you can't think if you can't think about it, you got to think about life. It makes me very reflective and appreciative. at the same time.

A lot of ives, you know, makes me want to give back as much as possible for some reason. Especially with my addict brothers and sisters. You know, whether it's my time or,

you know, my story. What is there to be said about your relationship with your father? My father's passed away as well. He was probably my biggest advocate. But, you know, that's why I mentioned my addict brothers and sisters because about, like,

there's a lot of forgiveness that had to take place, you know. And it's easy for me to, you know, be empathetic, you know, because I had the same problem, right? Forgiveness, how? I had to give, forgive him for, you know, choosing, you know, drugs over his family. Is that a choice though? Like, I mean, that's how a kid would look at it. Yeah, I mean, that's not how it goes, but that's how it went, right?

But I understand why he couldn't make that, you know, that decision. Do you have any... Excuse me? Why he failed at making the right decision, I understand it. Do you have any snapshots that remember sort of how he was troubled by heroin addiction? Oh, yeah. I remember how chaotic it was when I went to go, you know, spend a night at his home and my grandmother's house.

Yeah, those nights were crazy. And I didn't live there. I couldn't imagine what my cousin went through who lived there. And so basketball ends up raising you? In some sense, it did. How so? In a sense. Gave me direction.

No purpose. Discipline as well. Give you worth, too, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, you're... 100%. And so as you're traveling up the ranks as the number one recruit in America, it's intoxicating, right? Yeah.

In a good way. Was there pressure involved with it? Like, when did the pressure arrive? When did the business of it and any of the contaminants arrive? Probably recruiting, I would say. Like, AAU? probably, right? A, you age.

I mean, all of these things are distorting, right? You lose your mother at 12 years old. You're the number one recruit in America, and now you're surrounded by a whole bunch of people who see money. Trying to eat off you, yeah. I mean, they see money when they look at you. Yeah.

You can grow up fast, right? Decisions on the fly, now all of them are going to be the right one. Yeah. I mean, you know, some of those things that happened that didn't happen, I kind of learned to live with them. Right, whether it turned to a regret. or they went well, just life.

Were you ready in any way with what came next for you, the next step on all of this, not just recruiting, but now you're one of the best college players in the land. I imagine all of its culture shock. I don't know if the Clippers to Miami one was the most of the culture shocks. Like if you look at all of the places where transition was turbulent for you, what goes to the top of the list? Oh, probably my time from having to leave UNLV to Rhode Island, picking the school again.

Because Rhode Island's a... Rhode Island just, in terms of a region, unusual, right? There's the smallest state in America. But I think my... My, me growing up in the... in a place like Queens, Queens, New York, in the hood of Queens, New York probably, you know, built me really to figure it out anywhere.

I would imagine, though, when you say Rhode Island, the biggest of the culture shocks there, at least Las Vegas is somewhat diverse, Brooklyn or Queens is, there's people, but Rhode Island is the smallest state in America. It's not just small, though. It's super white, too. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of white people, but there's a lot of white people everywhere.

Have you pay attention? Yeah. And so then you get to the pros, and from the beginning, what does it feel like? You get drafted. What does draft day feel like? A party. But yeah, it was manifestation come true. I did it. Now, how will win the championship, actually. That's what I'm thinking. Which you would then go on to do as well. I'll talk to you about that in a second. But what are the details that you remember from draft night?

Being drafted and my grandmother telling me, don't get these motherfuckers shit. Yeah, me kissing her last at the table. And her telling me that. Who were the motherfuckers? I don't know. I guess my people who had to tell you, I don't know. But that's what came out of her mouth.

I mean, but I'm imagining that she was seeing something there that you weren't seeing, right? You're surrounded by whatever. She's an amazing woman. And so she's seeing that you're surrounded by trouble? I don't know if it was trouble. But she could probably see life changing at an extreme rate, extreme pace. Were you ready for any of it? Yeah

You were ready for the basketball Yeah in God's time I think I was ready for it I mean I was put there I mean who is ready for At 19 for the unexpected Right Who's ready for

That type of responsibility What are some of the things you didn't know At 19 or 20 about being an economy About being a professional About being You know invest in and so many financial, so much financial shit that I'm still learning

at 46. Save, put your money up. You spend, you know, spend the dollars, you're going to have to put $3 to put it back, make $3 to put it back in the bank. You're taxed by everybody tomorrow. Just a little shit financially. How trusting were you?

Because I would imagine. Probably too trusting for somebody to, you know, was going through, that's been through what I've been through. But I mean, I like to, I like people. So that could be, you know, I can fuck you at the end of the day as well. Were you burned a lot when it came to trusting? 100%.

I mean, you know, I was, you know, coming out of high school, that's when, you know, if you were the best player in the country, you had the option to, you know, go to the NBA. So the landscape of sports of basketball was changing. I call out the peak of my, you know, when I was growing up, part of my career that I got to experience firsthand. What do you remember about the people who hurt you on mistrust? Yeah, you know what? So I don't really even, the only thing I used the past for, honestly, is to kind of push me, you know,

to steer me in the right direction. You know, when we talk about, you know, the brawl through and whatever the fuck happened in the past, I didn't go right. I gotta kind of use it as therapeutic, you know what I mean? And just to push me in the right, you know, when it comes to my decision,

my day-to-day decision-making. You mentioned the word. Can't live in it too much because I wouldn't, you know, be able to do interviews like that. It would be too much pain. It might be, you know, traumatizing or traumatic to the point where it might work as a trigger. You know what I mean?

Oh, well, then this becomes dangerous, right? Yeah, yeah. So this is like, this is why it's like, I don't know, I'm not going to say it's big for me to do this, but it's like, you know, yeah, mentally, right? It could be really draining even, you know, going down some of these roads, even though it's just my life. I appreciate you doing it for a number of reasons. I'm just being honest.

No, thank you for that. And I don't, look, I think, uh, some of the, uh, I think, uh, somebody giving you a story, their story is a treasure, and I think it should be treated with care. And you've written a book and you've done a documentary. And in those things, it's clear that you would like to be helpful to others because addiction is a poison that can really... Well, I think because of what I came from and going through, that probably has to be part of my purpose, right? Not just to myself, but to my higher power. I don't care if you know, I don't care of Jesus or Allah or Yahweh or, you know,

whoever I is, whatever God I believe in. You know, I try to use my story to, you know, to help others. So no matter how traumatic it may make me feel at the time, I guess that's the sacrifice, you know, for me to get over if it's to help just one person, really. And have you found that you have with the book in the documentary? Why did you make, why did you decide to do this? those things because they're that you you chose to be very revealing for those reasons for those

reasons because I think you know that you know my story is shit is that impactful right for some people that you know look up to you or maybe put you on a high pedestal just to know that um you know can be beat down just like any other man right when it comes to to um to addiction and I've seen happen. I just, and I just, I know my influence and I, you know, understand my purpose. And sometimes it take us to, you know, I guess go through hell to see heaven and things. And like, right? I'm not trying to be weird or anything. I'm just trying to give you my insight. No, I appreciate it. Like, I know, forgive me, because of the idea of an interview can be so intimate that if, uh, you're reticent or worried about triggers, then, no, no, I'm not worried

about anything. Um, he's going to my, anything like time. Um, you're going to my, anything like I do appreciate, though, the fact that going back to what it is that you were doing in Miami, you came and you brought life to a team that also reinvigorated whatever it is that the losing had taken away from you and the idea that you would miss Pat Riley and extreme discipline. Like if I go back now and just put you in that first month, are you not in the shape that they demand you be in? I was in pretty good shape. Yeah, my trainer, Robbie Davis, at the time, he had me in, oh, man, and tip-top shape. So if I add that on how they whipped me into shape, we had a really strong athlete.

So what do you remember? Like, what do you remember about that transition? The line. The line. Get your ass on the line. But I know, I remember, I can remember training camp, like, not going home. I remember them pulling out the mats and us staying in the facility. How we bond it really quick, too.

That's unusual. You were forced to stay there? You had to stay. Usually you go home, you know what I mean? And relax the day was like, I don't think y'all going to want to go home. Probably should stay here. I remember the team bonding. I remember us, I remember us not starting well, but ending well.

Who did you bond with immediately? Wayne, all the coaches, Coach Askins, Coach Askins, really, in particular. What are the examples that you could give me of the differences between the Clippers and Miami? This defense, this culture. I was like, you know, Pat was already a basketball guard. Of course, he's running Miami.

at the time. You know, Elgin is a basketball guard, but he's not willing to, he's not able to express the impact that he had on basketball. So it was like a losing situation. Was winning mentality and losing mentality, really? Was there a lot of temptation in Miami?

Of course. It's Miami. But, you know, Pat made me move my family, my kids and their mother to move. Miami to, in order to pay me and stuff like that. He was, you know, in particular me, you know, taking care of myself. What was that coming from?

Getting some sleep. I respect Pat so much, you know, because of knowledge of the game, you know, how I played the game, you know, I always looked up to Maddie Johnson, so he's manager Johnson's coach, right? That he's one with, of course, from coaching, Kareem Abduljibald.

Always been the best player in New York City basketball history. He had a lot of things that I wanted. What was the conversation like where he's telling you that's that? Oh, it was intense, but he's, you know, he don't bullshit. You know, you respect that, especially coming from, you know, a place like the Clippers where they were, you know, kind of lowballed me as far as my contract was concerned. You know, he gave me, what he gave me because, like, you know, it's a penalty. If you get suspended twice with smoking marijuana.

And the second suspension came right before my free agent contract. You respected that? Yeah. Because that's a bit of an infringement, right, to tell a grown man how he has to live. I mean, not, but no, there's rules, you know. And you got to abide by the rules in order to, you know, proceed. not just as a sportsman, but just in life. Right?

Just how shit goes. Do you respond well to tough love? I think I respond well to love. I mean, if you're going to give it to me tough, then that's your delivery. Then that's how I'm going to learn. Where do you feel like you did the most basketball learning? Of course, under Pat and Phil Jackson playing a triangle offense, But I would think growing up, streets of New York,

where the objective is to play against somebody bigger, better, and stronger than you every day. Really, that's how I got better. It's funny because, like, you know, going home and throwing my books down and going straight to the park, or I didn't really realize that I was just honing my basketball skills, honestly. How young did basketball become your identity?

10. Do you remember, what do you remember about that age? Couldn't wait to watch, couldn't wait to play. Are the posters up in your room? Like, who are you idolizing? What are you? Magic Johnson? From the beginning, you had the, that's, I'm going to be.

I want to play the point guard. The only my regret in college is that I didn't make Jim Harrod play me at point guard to get drafted as a point card. Really? Yeah. What would you say your identity is today? Father, businessman, worker, hard worker. I don't think I get enough credit for shooting a reality show while I was in season. That's hard to do.

And that reality show. You know what I mean? Like, come on, bro. I don't think you're going to remember this. You're not going to remember this. but we one time had you call into our radio show on the night before there was a conundrum that we were talking about, where one guy had a bunch of friends who didn't approve of who he was marrying, and we asked you the question, just can you give us some advice on how to handle this situation?

It was as if you had thought about it, because you came in and you're like, this is what you do. You have one of the boys, the boy that you trust the most, go to him and say one time and one time only, this is a disapproval that I have, and you never mention again, and you walk. away what kind of advice were you getting about that reality show and all of that because I would imagine all of that is just totally distorting you're in Los Angeles you're playing basketball you're winning a championship and also you're in the middle of a a reality televised swirl to do all of that everybody thought it was gonna be distracting for obvious reasons right but that's

what made me kind of like say all right I'm gonna do it because nobody think it could be done that's what kind of and gave me like the okay and nobody's done it before I'm probably ever going to do it again it just kind of all fell in line right that's how you got to understand how life works even I can have two people so similar but their paths be like totally different did the team or the league ever talked to you about any of that or you were going to do it anyway once I got the okay from the best owner in sports ever genie bust to do it and the bus family to do it and Kobe blessed it then why not it just kind of was like easy when

I was my wife her profession day that I did the biggest reality family ever I'm with the biggest back biggest basketball franchise ever fuck it's crazy but it was it was it was uh yeah it was tough it was so I was work I work so much so hard drove me to it like I had an about of insomnia where I couldn't sleep. I probably was the most frustrating thing about it, but I would do it again. Because you were just going all the time. It's two full-time jobs, right?

And you've got to be in shape, and the basketball one has to have your attention. Like, you can't. What happens is the thing was good about it professionally as an athlete is that you trick yourself, because the basketball thing got to work. Like, if the basketball thing don't work, then this whole shit gonna fall apart.

But you kind of trick yourself into just like, fuck it. But it was, it's kind of giving me the mindset. Like, I could do it. I could do it. You know what I mean? I've talked myself until I can do it. I can get it done. You said you'd do it again.

Which parts of it might you do differently? I would appreciate the grind. You know what I mean? Sometimes when you're caught in it, you don't really get to appreciate what you're doing. Like you don't get to take a step back and like, you know what I'm going? But I would just really not pat myself on the back, but really like, like, long.

You're really like doing this shit. You know what I mean? So you'd allow yourself to be both proud of yourself, and experience some joy in the doing of it? Like you weren't enjoying it enough? I mean, it was it. It had to be done. And there's no only way for it to get done is for it to get done.

Get her done is what we call that, right? But I was getting it done that kept me sharp. Why did you decide to do all of it? I just, I love staying busy when it comes to that. You know, like, you know, like sometimes, you know, like when I, I want to work so much now, kind of see myself with opportunities, and sometimes I'm letting them, like, bump heads, because I'm just willing to just kind of take on everything.

And it's just to kind of stay busy, almost, you know, I want to drive myself crazy with work. I know how I work, I've seen it, it pays off. It pays off, but also, given everything you've been through, it's an excellent place to hide. Well, I guess, I don't know. I can't hide anywhere. I can't hide anywhere.

Life's lifeing. All the time. Everything's going to be exposed. You remember not sleeping, though? Is it because there was too much that had to be done? Is it because life was just a whirlwind? Yeah, I wish I don't know what caused that. I don't know what caused that, but it was just something that I went through at the time.

How long did that last? because insomnia is... Yeah, a couple of months. It's frustrating, really. Especially, I'm 6'10. So, obviously, I love to sleep. So you're growing asleep. So, um...

But, like I say, I like to stay busy. But you don't know what was happening there that was... Like, were you restless? Were you stressed? No, I just... I don't know if it was stressed, a good stress, a bad stress. I just know I couldn't, you know, and sleep.

But, you know, like I said, I like to stay busy. How did the show change your life? How did this doing the show change my life? Well, they used to call me Lammy on the show, was my nickname on the show. And I would say, because of the Kardashians, I would say Lammy is, I don't know if you want to say Lammy is an icon or how you want to label them if you want to put Lammy on that same level. But known like Goebly.

And I was proved that. I just went to Ireland the last month for a quick gig. And one night I'm watching TV and Chloe Lamar. is on in Ireland. Reruns, reruns, reruns, reruns, reruns, reruns. And just life is just trippy like that. You know what I mean? Like, I could think about, like, so many wrongs

just that I've done, like, to myself or not treated myself the way I should have treated myself. And still, like, I've just been outrageously, like, blessed, bro. It's fucking weird. But somebody is just like such a fucked up guy. Like, you know, that's a joke. I'm joking, we laugh, I'm sitting here joking to myself. I'm joking.

I don't think I'm a fucked up guy, but I don't know where it comes from, bro. Like, always got a second opportunity to make right, right. I think it comes from, you know, me treating people the right way, or at least how I want to be treated. Just like simple. arithmetic ways of life that I've been treated, that I've tried to pass down to my kids, and just be respectful and watch people respect you, right?

You know what I mean? And I don't know. It's just blessings on blessings on blessings. Every day, I'm like every week. It's like my goal is to meet as many people as I can to, like, change my life. You know, I don't work my way to a billion dollars one day, so I can hopefully be the biggest,

Philanthropist basketball coach, the world is known to know. Be a hell of a comeback story. It's all about to come back. Lammy's more famous than Lamar? 100%. 100%. 100%. Lamar is shy, quiet.

You know what I mean? Lamie is a little bit more spontaneous or can make spontaneous conversation. Right, whether it's forced or learned. Different person who's crazy. But Lammy is global. Who do you like better? Amor.

Were you performing on that show? Nope. So it was also the real you, right? Yeah, it was. It was me. I think that's why I came across so, you know, genuine and organic. So I did so well. That's why so many people responded to it. What was the math that you were doing in your head about?

choosing it. Like, why did you choose to do that? Did you want to be more famous? Nah. That's the thing that's crazy. Uh-uh. That just came from, you know, being in Laker and marrying someone that was famous. I'm never that out of body.

You know what I mean? Like, I'm really, like, I don't know, like, I don't even really consider myself a celebrity. I'm just like, glamour. Just living. You know what I mean? I can't help it. The path that I'm chosen to walk. But you're craving something there, right?

And the way people look at me. I wasn't craving anything by marrying. No, not by, I didn't say by marrying, by doing the television show, by being in the, like, by... I was just doing my wife's business with her. I wasn't craving to be more famous. But you could choose not to, right? And in fact, most... Yeah, I was, I was just, honestly just supporting my wife and what she was doing.

I didn't choose to be more famous. Because I am who I am, no matter what I do. I don't know how, I didn't know how the people were going to respond to it. I didn't know if they were going to make me like me more or hate me. So that's what's kind of risky. You don't know how you're going to come off in that, you know, type of atmosphere, the first time doing it. But, you know, I guess I'm a rider.

Where would you say that you were happiest along the professional basketball path? Like, of all the stuff? stops in all of the places, when you look back on it, when is it that you say that's the high point of happiness. Is it winning championships? 100%. Yeah. The champagne being poured. Being the team that's the best team at the end of the playoffs, 100%. That's like, you know, it's orgasmine. think about it. And you're in LA, bro.

Like, you're at Laker. It's like, I think that's the last team, you know, went two in a row, Kobe's last two. So that ain't, you know, that's life-changing if you don't get it. Or if you're not a, you know, celebrity, you're off the court. Always remember.

Kobe went to visit you in rehab, right? No, and when I was in a coma, they said he came to the hospital. Derek Fisher and Rick Fox tell the stories of Kobe testing them until they're willing to fight, doing some things that can be dickish to see if they have that fight in them, like sort of, you know, taking their spots in sprinting lanes or whatever, just trying to see what's in them. What are some of the Kobe stories that you have that? I can remember. that I seen him test people

well shit he was he was elbowing Sasha before we jump ball and practice when you got a player like that that's good and you know and you see that he wanted that much and that's you know willing to

give that much to the game that you know if you're a professional actually playing at that level and you made it that one. You see somebody giving that much to the game and that shit, don't rub off on you, then you're kind of missing it.

Was there anything, though, that is particularly memorable in terms of him toughening up teammates or leadership or anything in that regard where you... I mean, it's just day-to-day practice, bro. You know what I mean? He just gave so hard.

And you see, obviously, we did on the court in the end game. Now you just follow suit easy. You know, he led by example so easy, he ain't really have to say much. You know what I don't really think they make too many players like that anymore. Just wanted it in a way that was overtly obvious to everyone that was more than everyone else wanted it? That fucking playing the games, fucking pinky pop out. It don't matter.

You know what I mean? A little bit crazy, though, no, right? Yeah. But as an athlete, you know, to get there, we all got a little crazy in us, right? As a man, some of the craziest things we go to kind of make us respond. Do you enjoy watching the game today because it's a little bit different than the one you were playing? I think that's why I'm trying to subject myself in it so much. So I think part of my mission in life is to, you know, help save God's games.

I think I'm that close to guard that maybe you've saved me for that one or one of those reasons. It needs saving? Yeah, yeah. So all the threes drive you crazy? Yeah. The teaching, like for most players, they're not understand that the most important side

is from 15 feet on out, right? And, yeah. Layups, running to the corner. Well, you say it's the most important shot, but all the data and analytics now say that's the most... That's not the game, the data and analytics don't want championships. Defense does. Shooting the ball from the right place.

A wrestler is just pick up basketball to me, honestly. Because I could tell you the responsibility from the center to the point guard. You know what I mean? And offensively and defensively. He's watching, you know, all these, you know, point guards, you're all stop the ball. You're the first man when the ball's coming up, right? You're the first guy. If they get past you easy, then, right?

It's hell of pay. But, and then really the fast break, they run to the corner. Remember the first time I saw that was- That's fucking crazy. Like that, like, come on, every, like, every, like, if you're trying to teach third, like, kids how to play basketball? Think about getting a 10-year-old kid. And the first ever, any 10-year-old kid, if you like take him to the park right now,

he's going to fucking throw it up from as furthest as possible. That's Steph Curry's greatness of his game for his young man. For you, I think you should start near the rim. Off the box, off the white box, start there. I think that's why I want to, you know, one day have triangle basketball academies. Right? And do kind of like what they're doing in Europe.

Bring back the 15-foot. And the fundamentals. You know, if I'm watching the basketball game, I'm watching this post up guy, seeing him got his hip, his half position. And I'm watching the guard, and he can't deliver the ball into the post because he might be pressured a little bit.

So bad. I remember the first time I saw what you're talking about. It was those warriors. They're on a three-on-one fast break, and Clay and Steph go to the corners. and I'm like, what are they doing? If your team, but, like, you know, it's so just bad for, you know, I want one day that for the USA basketball

for their offense to be the triangle offense. I'm laughing at the sound of that burp at the end of what it is you said. Excuse me. No, seriously. But it's like, it's hard for me to watch. Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. I mean, it tamed them.

They're aggressive. mentality, which to some would be called selfishness. The only thing to tame there, right? But it's one. I thought the NBA was a copycat league. I asked one, you know, Laker exec. I said, I don't know if you know, but the last great success that the Lakers had

have been in this offense. That damn the crowd almost even knows. When somebody's going to catch it at the pinch pose and go back door. The kids don't want to run. Okay. Well, the corner three is the most efficient shot in basketball. And it's always there in a triangle offense. And then you can run a pick and roll out that corner.

And then, you know, whatever. It's no serious. It's almost hard. But somebody that loves the game so much, as I do. And it's been okay. I've been okay as a player. But, you know, like the Knicks got it done. They brought the game back home, right, to the garden.

Probably where it belongs, right? New York is the perfect. I mean, we'll say the mother and father basketball here in America. I would say Brunton just got hot and some pickup games. If I asked you what you're prouder of, is it winning a championship in? Los Angeles or is it being the best player coming out of New York at the time that everybody was competing to be the best player coming out of New York?

Winning a championship. The only reason I ask the question is because I don't think most people understand just quite how much pride the New York basketball thing has. You've seen it in full, like, yeah, you've seen it in full force. Yeah, you've seen it in a full force. Real time. Real time. When would you say that you felt like you knew or could admit or identified, I am a drug addict?

I can't remember the exact time, but, oh, man, so many different stories. Hmm. Shit. I mean, there's so many different times. I probably can't even think, right? Probably my first, actually, that's a good question, but actually my first time at rehab. my first time. Yeah.

When was that? I don't know the year, exactly. It wouldn't have been with the clippers, though, right? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Everyone had it wrong when you're coming. Like, that was just an antiquated way of looking at things when you were getting gonged for drug tests with the clippers and people are like. That was drug, that was marijuana suspension.

That's what I'm saying. Like, that's just. But no, I would say when I was a drug addict, just period, like when I was in rehab. Yeah. Like my first, like, damn, boy, like, what you're doing? You hadn't tried a harder drug before Miami, correct? No, yeah, no. Mm-mm.

And why and what happened there that made... You want to dabble? Well, not do it before, and then all of a sudden you're like, now I'm going to try this, even though I don't think I have any sort of problem. The reason I've never tried cocaine is because I have an addictive personality, and I know that if I like something too much, I can't do that. Like, I know that about myself.

What are you laughing about? No, I'm having a responsive joke in my head to what you just said. I'll save it. You're going to keep it to yourself? It seemed like it was really funny. Yeah, it was funny. Let's get back to the question.

I was saying why and what happened that you decided to try. That's- Cocaine? Yeah. I forgot what happened. I was in Miami. I was chilling at the show club.

Never tried it. My best friend at the time, I kind of had the feeling that he was dizzling, dabbling. And he was with me, and I was this couple. I was at the show club, chilling at the bungalows and shit like that. And this lady just asked me, she was with her husband, said, do you know what you can get in this cocaine and try it? I don't know, but I think I could ask my friend. And he was able to track some down for him. And this lady, I made her tell her husband to leave or whatever.

She tried some, I tried something, whatever. And yeah, kind of like fuck me up, opened up a vault. I wish I never opened, really. Honestly, that feeling. Because when you're an addict, like you're chasing the dragon, right? You got good sense because you get good sense because you don't want to even open up that vault because you're chasing that.

You want to chase that first feeling. Always, you don't feel like that. You know, road of bad decisions and shit like that. Did it immediately become a problem? Like as soon as you're like this. No, no, no, no. It took time. It took time.

It took years. Do you know how many times you've been to rehab? Three times. Three times. Two for cocaine and there's one last time for marijuana when I was fucking speeding in Vegas and was almost there and just put the joint out and clipped it and I went up,

right before I put it out, I was driving like 114 miles per hour and wound up going to jail that night. And my mother was a correction officer on Rikers Island. I'll give you a quick story. And I remember dropping me off at my father's project one night. And my, I'm getting out the car and all these little kids come running out and I says, Oh, little Joe is here.

My father name is Joseph. Little Joe is here, little Joe was here. And the meanwhile, I was 12 o'clock at night, almost 1 o'clock at night. And right before I got out the car, my family pet name was Muka. Muka. And right before I'm getting up to call my mother Grab my mom, bottom my arm And she said, Mook, if you ever go to jail,

that's when I'm going to stop fucking with you. And so I went to jail that night And that's all that played over my head Over and over and over again. That shit was like fucking playing a track on repeat in my head in that fucking jail cell for 14 hours As I lay. for marijuana in Vegas

is the legal state for smoking marijuana and that was the last time I've been in rehab but that was my most that was my most I think that was the best time I've probably ever had a rehab

if you can have a good time at rehab because it was a counselor who was my probably my mentor in that stage in my life his name is Vincent Frank

he's a rehabilitation gangster like a German gangster for real for and his help me take

you know rehab like really really like serious this time learn from it my first 30 days of rehab

I went to NA and AA means so how could you not learn if you're having open heart for change and yeah but I just want to use my you know that you know my story to to help people I think that's why people identify with that Netflix special so much you know because there's no doubt in my mind after the pandemic a lot of people went through some type of depression anxiety probably fucked around a little bit when they didn't really fuck around a little bit before,

maybe drank a little bit more. You know what I mean? I did, yeah. I was drinking more during the pandemic than I normally do. I think a lot of people resonated. It was number two, number three, globally for a little bit.

I don't think it was that good. I haven't even watched all of it. No? No. Why not? I know the story. And from what I was told, they didn't really, you know,

glorified a part that I didn't do drugs. And like, I don't know if you're a Lamar fan or if there are any Lamar fans, anybody who's gonna give a fuck. But I thought that was like the whole, gonna be the whole point. You know what I mean? Um, you feel me?

You were hoping that the story they told was about the helping that you're trying to do with this? Because I do. Yeah, and I mean, I don't know. I didn't watch it. So I don't want to point flicks at Netflix and say, the point didn't come across. It was number two, number three, globally.

And I think that's the only reason why people cared because how they personally have been affected because of addiction. Because I think a lot of people have been, right? And don't have the opportunity to come out to even talk about. Or maybe even get help. And I think that's helping.

Your story is different for sports fans. Like it's a different story. Well, not for just sports fans, for addicts. Well, no, but I'm saying it's different for, yes, it's different in a lot of ways. But there's also, I'm sorry. Because addiction makes people high and be shameful for obvious reasons, right? A lot of relationships get hurt. My kids were on there and they were able to talk a little bit about how they've been affected.

So it's like a family structure system that gets fucked up. you know, especially so much, somebody that has so much responsibility in their family as much as me. You know, but can't help it because they fucking, you know, want to get low. That's what I call it. I don't call it getting high. You know, I call it getting low. They can't help themselves. No, and this is my time to, like, talk and preach about addiction.

Addiction, you know, addicts, they suffer from brain disease. Okay? So you can imagine if you have a disease brain and you don't know it, or if you do know it, and you, you know, continue to give this disease brain more drugs, more alcohol. Well, alcohol is a drug. You know, give it more or feed it more. You know, you could imagine the outcome for people acting up or acting out. I mean, it can be hereditary.

It was passed down. I think, in my case, I think it was passed down. And so now me as an educator, now is me up to me, like not trying to pass that down to my children, or at least educate them as much as possible to let them know that they might have that genetic disease, you know. It must worry, right? Yeah, I think there's more things that probably, you know, yeah, worry me, you know, more. But it's like, you know, what they tell you on the airplane. If shit goes down, the air goes down. The air goes wrong.

Fucking wrong. You got to put your mask on first. Get up somebody else. It's probably one of the hardest things for us to do as parents, but overall, if the more old them will take care of them, then none of these jewels or shit that I've been through that ain't going to be able to get passed down. Not the right way.

Why do you think you didn't learn anything or learn more the first two trips to rehab? Maybe because where my heart was at, I know the first two times probably I went, I couldn't wait to get the 30 days over with just to get the fuck out of there. Especially the first time. I know a lot of people have been incarcerated. And I think that was like the first time, that was like my first kite to everybody I know that had been incarcerated. Like my heart reached out to hell.

I'm like, I knew how it felt. And I could get up and leave. You know what I mean? But it was a real, like, a real. like moment of reflection. You mentioned being in jail and it sounded like... I mean, yeah, I went to jail. But it sounded like shame.

It sounded like what you were describing, thinking of your mother. Yeah, I was definitely shamed. Where does it rank in terms of how much shame there has been around this for you? The times that you have felt shame around whatever is public embarrassment or... or anything that feels bad because you've let people down or hurt them. It's crazy because that, like, that, you know, how that, but that night in jail led to so much good. So that's like I always try to tell you how my glasses always, like, half full.

Like, there was some good that came out of it, you know, at the end of the day. Well, rehab got it reached you. Yeah, I've met a, I got a friend for life who, if I had a problem at four in the morning, and if I had two lines of cocaine in front of me at four in the morning and told me your friends, I need some help, man, come help me, talk me out of this, he would be there. I know he would be there. And I wouldn't have met him if I didn't go to rehab this last thing. So it's crazy how life was just so, you know,

When I think I'm down, I'm never out. It's always time to learn. Grandma told me you stop learning and you stop living. Do you ever feel like you can have a handle on this, or that runs against the nature of what it is to admit that you're an addict to think that you can actually conquer? You should always try to handle it every day, right? If I'm not getting high, every day I'm working on, you know, handling it the right way. I'm going to lighten this up a little bit with an assortment of questions that will speed up this interview.

Okay, they're going to be quicker questions. Let's do it. You want quicker answers or want this hard reflexive answers? No, you can do it however it is that you want to do it, but there's a little bit of fill in the blank involved. A television show that is the one show if I only allow you on an island with one show that you're going to be with. A television show? Yes, one television show you would want to watch. Fresh principalita.

A movie that you will stop on every time in the hotel room. Hurricane. Really? Yeah. A candy you can't live without. Sowerpower, Apple. The greatest defender you ever ran across was blank. Ron Autis.

The toughest player you've ever run across is blank. Tracea McGregory. The best leader you have ever seen is blank. Kobe Ryan. The smartest player you have ever seen is blank. Mayor Johnson. An irrational fear you have. Irrational fear.

Swimming. What is the weirdest combination of foods you will put together? Korean soul. Give me a word you want your friends to use to describe you. Legend. Do you want to know how you die? Do I want to know how I go? Would you want to know?

Yeah. You would want to know that. Why would you want to know that, do you think? I don't know. Just curious? I know, because I know how I'm going to die. You do? I'm going to be on the beach of Turks and Kikos.

It's going to be 120. A thing that you find hard to forgive about yourself, hard to forgive yourself for. Lying. You enjoy this more than the person. previous part. You enjoy the quick. I get better in the fourth quarter. Well, the game is over. Thank you for playing it with us, Lamar. I appreciate your time. No problem, man. It was my pleasure.