The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - South Beach Sessions - Mike Breen

Episode Date: June 9, 2023

Mike Breen hits South Beach Sessions with a BANG. The voice of the NBA Finals for the past 18 seasons will be more than comfortable calling his record-setting 100th Finals game, but sitting down with Dan to talk openly about HIMSELF? That's history in itself too. Mike shares with Dan how he still feels like the shy kid who is simply a fan of the game, and the love he has for his broadcast brothers, Jeff Van Gundy & Mark Jackson, even when they won't say it back. Mike also talks about how from the devastating ashes of his family's home, deep gratitude rose. Watch the 2023 NBA Finals as the Denver Nuggets battle the Miami Heat LIVE on ABC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're listening to Giraffe King's Network. Welcome to another South Beach session. I really am thrilled that we have a legend here who's going to Pasha being a legend because he's got to be humble about things. But he really is a unicorn because one part of this is super, super unique, which is his peers will not have a bad word to say about him, anyone who has worked with him. So that's one kind of hard to achieve. But in today's America, social media doesn't have anything bad to say about this man. Joe Buck is pretty good at his craft.

Joe Buck is somehow polarizing, even though he's a craftsman just like this man is a craftsman. But I thank you for being here, Mike, for a couple of different reasons. Your work has been exceptional over 18 finals for 30 years broadcasting games. But I also respect you because everyone I talk to says you are a fundamentally decent person,

which can, in this business, soaked with ego, be something that you don't find very much of. So thank you for being the way you are. First of all, I don't know that people know you. You probably purposely want to be off to the side of the stage and the shadows. Don't want to be the story, but you have done your job exceptionally well

for a long time, and I've been a big admirer for a long time. Well, I'm humbled by the words. You clearly haven't searched enough people to find people to say bad things but I so appreciate it and as I told you, you know, I've been conscious of you've seen back in the early Nikkeet days in your writing days and have mad respect. So, it's a pleasure to be on, although you didn't take my advice, and I thought your listeners and your viewers would be better served if you just reran the Ernie Johnson interview over and over again, because that was just spectacular. As I told you before, he came out of the air. He's somebody I look up to, and to you know talk about his life and his craft was

uh was fascinating. Look up to him because I think of you similarly cut from similar cloth where you're both faith-based and you both were raised by parents who have you now covered in gratitude about making sure to represent them well. And so I think of you as similar creatures. Well, I don't think of myself similar to Ernie. He's just one of the most unique, special people in our business because of not only is he so talented at what he does, but that's just only a part

of his life and we've learned a lot about the other parts of his life both through your interview and a lot of other interviews he's done. He's just he's one of those special people that you're proud to say I'm in the same business as that man. You don't think of yourself as similarly remarkable? No. No. I like your kind words and I'm striving to be better all the time, but it's hard for me to, I don't like to judge myself on things. I just know I know the way I was brought up at a mother and father that taught me how to treat people and that's why I've tried to live my life most most of that way, whether a personal life, professional life.

So when you have that foundation as a kid, and that's the way you were raised, it stays with you for your entire life, at least it has with me. What did your father and mother do? My mother stayed at home. She was the rock. I was one of six boys. And my dad had a couple of different jobs. It was a grocer for a while but then spent most of my childhood

as a steamfitter in the Union. He was in construction and the two of them were just the way I always phrase it is every day of my life I felt like I was loved and can you ask anything better from parents every day. What is a steam fitter? Whenever you go to he worked on the World Trade Center. It's all piping. All the pipes that are put in in a building that's going up to construction. So sometimes he's way up on the 80th floor sometimes in the bottom. It's hard work, it's grueling work. So he did that for a long, long time. What did they teach you about work? Because one of the things I want people to see here is I don't think

necessarily that the average listener or viewer understands how meticulous a sculptor you must be about preparation to make what you do sound as easy as you make it sound Well, you're making it sound harder than it is because when it's when it's the labor of love My all my preparation all the work that I do is about things that I just love the most basketball I mean, I've done other sports in the past, but basketball is always the first love. So it doesn't seem like work. But my father, I remember when he, on Sunday nights,

we'd all be around and he'd have to get up five o'clock in the morning the next day to go to work. And he wasn't happy about it on Sunday. And as a kid, I remember thinking, he spends all this time at work and he doesn't really like it. Now, he liked the people he worked with, he realized he had an obligation to his family and worked hard, but he never really wanted to go to work because it was tough demanding

work. And that struck a chord in me in that, all right, when I get older, I want to be in a job that I can't wait to go to the next day, and that's why sports came into that. But the fact that he just got up every day, he never missed a day of work, I can't remember. And he just day after day after day. So, the work ethic that he had, I hope, is a big part of how I grew up, and not only for me, for my brothers as well. All I heard at the dinner table growing up was my father complaining about work.

So I was like, I cannot do something that makes me that kind of unhappy for the thing. It makes an impression as a kid, and you wonder why, because you love the man so much, and you wanna see him happy, and he was happy. He was always happy, but he would have preferred maybe to do something else. But that's what he did. It put food on the table and raised six children. So it's part of what it was. But it makes you think like, man, how many hours a week is he at a place

he doesn't want to be at? Oh, but you say, you did it. What I believe is a little bit of a, I don't know if you're a workaholic, I don't know you that way. But if you were a workaholic, that is a little bit of a, I don't know if you're a workaholic, I don't know you that way, but if you were a workaholic, that is a trick that a workaholic would use to say it doesn't feel like work if you love it and It's easier, Dan, than you think it is because I love it, but it doesn't mean that the travel schedule in the amount of hours you're putting in That is not an easy job. It might be easy compared to a steam fitter, but the hours that you put in,

people have no idea, Mike, they think you're getting to a microphone and just talking. No, that's one thing I'm gonna grant you today. I work hard, I'll admit, I work hard. But people have no idea what that means though, to explain to them what that means, because that's flights,

you're doing a lot of games for 30 years. You're in a lot of strange cities. You're missing a lot of family stuff. Well, the last thing is the hardest thing of the job has always been. We'll always be. Even though my children are all adults now, all the time you spend away, all the time you're on

in hotel rooms, on airplanes, it's difficult. And for people who don't fly on a regular basis and don't stay in hotels on a regular basis, it can be, it takes its toll, especially the flying. So from that standpoint, though. And the work, though, you know, you love it, even though you love it, it can be something that pulls you away from your family

because it's hard to do well. Right, for example, like there'll be an off-nighter in the season, I don't have a game, even though you love it, it can be something that pulls you away from your family because it's hard to do well. Right. For example, like, there'll be an off-night during the season. I don't have a game. I don't have to fly. But the team that I have coming up on my next game is on TV that night. So I have to watch, not have to, but I want to watch the game to help me better prepare for that.

So during the course of the season, it's just, it's non-stop. Like every day you do a little something for your job. Whether it's reading, whether it's watching, whether it's calling and talking to people. But it's not hard labor. And again, it's talking and watching stuff that I love so much. But it does take up a lot of time. I'll grant you that one.

How do you achieve balance? a couple of times. I'll grant you that one. How do you achieve balance? Well, for years I did other things besides basketball. I did the NFL for a while. I would do some college, both football and basketball. But after a while, the grind of the NBA season, because it wasn't just Nick's basketball, which is where I started, then it became first on NBC, the NBA, and then ESPN. For eight months, it's every day. So I stopped everything else and would have four months off a year, and that fortunately, is most of the summer when the kids were little,

so that was it, and that's what made up for it, because the quality time you had then. You know, you hear all the same stuff, I'm sure. You know, you appreciate what you have more when you're away so much. So when I had those summers and the early falls, you know, that's what got me recharged because I couldn't do that 12 months a year, no way.

But also as you age, I would imagine, you also appreciate a whole different set of things than you appreciated when you were at your most ambitious. This isn't to say you're not ambitious now, but whenever it is you are most crazed about, I have to get ahead because there's no way that you weren't at one point. You wouldn't have gotten ahead if you hadn't been crazed about getting ahead. Right. The ambition changes as you get older and the appreciation skyrockets. I've said this, getting older physically, I'm 62 now. Getting older physically is really hard. The other day we're in Denver last week

and I decide to play pickleball for the first time and I tore a calf muscle. So getting older physically is brutal, but getting older emotionally is one of the great experiences of life, because you realize what's important, because you realize what truly matters. And from that standpoint, it's just a wonderful time for me. Can you take me through some of the landmarks of Places now that you've arrived at 60 where your gratitude so overwhelmed you that you're more emotional about things than you've ever been before just because You're looking at life differently in your 60s than you have at any other time. Yeah Well my kids and I keep calling them kids and I will until the day I die

They tease me all the time that I get emotional of the drop of the hat now. Because everything, for example, music, I'm crazy about music. Music is a big part of my life every day. So certain songs, certain lyrics make me think of things in my life. I get emotional listening to music. I get emotional watching movies.

But the thing that is probably the common thread is all the people along the way. And you quickly realize, people say, calling the finals, it's an amazing thing. And it is. It's an honor. It's a privilege. It's been exciting.

It's been thrilling. But the number one thing for me, the entire time, and slowly I get there, but I even realized it early, were the relationships, the lifetime relationships that you make, and all the people that made a difference when I was blessed to to get the Kirk out of the award. And you go up on stage, the line I used is, I wish I could bring all the people who are responsible for me being here, up on the stage. The problem is, there is not a stage in the world being enough to hold that many people. And that's the way I feel.

And you really come to that realization as you get older. And it's like from little impacts to an enormous impact. But there's every step of the way. Every step of the way I've had somebody help me. I would imagine that that would be one of the lights on the pie chart that you would find wherever you find happiness is a fundamental gratitude. It's not even just appreciation, but that it's not about the ego of I got here. I won these awards. I'm great at what I do.

I'm special. I'm better than announcer X. I had a thousand breaks along the way, and I am so grateful for the love of those people. That's exactly it. Getting any individual award, there's a, for me, you're a little embarrassed sometimes. I don't like the attention sometimes, but what it has become, it's become the great ability

now. Once you get it, it gives you a chance once again to thank the people who are responsible for and to show how many wonderful people you've had in your entire life. And that comes up time and time again and not to belabor this story. But Marcus Thompson, you know Marcus Thompson, just a brilliant writer with the athletic. He just, he bugged me for about a couple of months to do a story about the housefire. My family went through back in September. And I didn't want to do it. I didn't want to call attention to it because we're fine. Everything is good, but he had a reason for pushing me to do it. And I didn't want to do it, I didn't want to call attention to it because we're fine. Everything is good, but he had a reason

for pushing me to do it. And the reason was is what it came about. The bottom line to the whole thing was not that we lost our house and everything in it, but we found out once again an unbelievable reminder of how many just incredible people you have in your life and how people really do care. And it makes you fall in love with mankind again, because I tend to take the optimistic look.

I think people basically are good, are really good, and care, and it showed that flying colors came through for me. And this isn't boring to you. No, I read the story and I was moved by the story that Marcus wrote for a couple of different reasons. I talked to the actor Michael Matt and we never even aired the interview. He had just lost his house in a fire and was so emotional and crazed that he broke down several times. Just trying to grapple with the grief of losing a lifetime's worth of things that matter to you, your family, that aren't replaceable. So the horror of that is one thing, but to read your appreciation for you to emerge from those ashes, not with the story of just profound woe is me, but God, I felt so loved after that happened. I felt so supported at what I imagine was a, you know, a pretty crushing time even if it's just even if people can dismiss it and saying, well, what are superficial things?

Right. No, that's that came clear and it right away and in any kind of, you know, the phrase I used, we were wobbling a bit there, but all the love and kindness, it strengthens you. It's incredible. And to know people like really care. They're not just saying, oh yeah, quick text. It's like real care and concern. And to have that, know that's out there for you and your family. Man, it's overwhelming. It really is overwhelming. And you want to be able now, it's overwhelming. It really is overwhelming.

And you want to be able now, it's press me now, for other people are going through, and I've always tried to be this way, but to be there for other people when they're going through difficult times, because you realize the difference it can make, because I certainly know what the difference it made. Hola, alguien me escucha, necesito ayuda. Estoy en Barcelona y las criaturas están por todas partes. Si me es... Aláis, ¡blook! ¡Aáis! Escuchéis lo que escuchéis, tapados los ojos. La calle vamos todos a ciedas,

pero lo más aterradores no saben que confiar. Uy de las personas que os piden que mireis. Sí queréis seguir convido. and continue to compete. Right about 15 or 16 thought about going into broadcast. Again, when you grew up in a house, my dad was a huge sports fan. And six boys, sports is not, it's not something you can choose. It's an obligation in the house. So we all played sports every day, all day, summers,

winters, all different sports. So I loved it. And again, going back to what my father not enjoying his job, I'm thinking I'm gonna get a job in sports. Now first initially I thought I was gonna be a baseball player or a basketball player, but by the time I'm 14-15, I'm At least I realized that's not happening. That's it. That's stories true of a lot of us who make their living around around not quite good enough to do it, but can appreciate the excellence in the people who do do it. Right. So the real bug and this is the interesting thing. Some of the people that have had the biggest impact on my sports cast and career, nobody's heard of. They're just people that came along my life. There's a gentleman named Tony Minicola.

And we played with football every day during the summer on his block. He lived with his parents. He was in college, New York Tech. We were all in high school. And you know, got hot during the summer. So what we would do, we'd go hang out in his basement because it had air conditioning. And he built a radio station in his basement and played Dishyaki, had commercials, records, you know, everything. Like it was a real radio station. Only, it only went from one room to the next, but that was what he was into. And that's what he was going to college for.

And we used to hang out in the basement all the time. And one day he says, hey, once you come in, you wanna be the DJ for a little bit. And I'm like, okay, let me try it. And I fell in love with it. And I enjoyed being on the air and talking. So my initial thought was, I'm gonna be a disc jockey. WPLJ was like the big rock station in New York

back at that time. And I thought I'm gonna be a DJ on WPLJ. That was my first goal. And then realized, you know what, this could also be sports on the air. And that's why I went to Fordham University for that, to see if I'd like to sports casting part. And the love of music that's in there somewhere, why, and how is it reaching you? Like, what is it that about music that tugs you the way sports does?

I don't know if you know, for some people they hear music, it does nothing to. For me, right from the start, and again, it was my dad, he used to play his records all the time in the house and then that my older brother started that so I went from listening to you know Glenn Campbell and Tom Jones and Inglebert Humper Dink that sexiest hell so those are the albums that I listened to with him and then it became my older brother starting getting into music and they were Jothro Tull and Springsteen and Emerson Lake and Palmer and stuff like that so it's just everybody in my house loved it and just right away it just it grabs you and never let's go. And so you go to college to study broadcasting you're still

like where when the sports gets it's hooks into you. Well I went to Fordham because of the college radio station there. I was actually hoping to go to Emerson, but couldn't afford it. So Fordham was the second choice. And I think on a good day, it took me 12 minutes to drive from my house in Yonkers to the Bronx. And I joined the college radio station to see if I'd like it. And there were a lot of really good announcers in the past. I know of obviously Ben Scully, the top of the list. And when I went there, I took

all the sports casting classes and see if I liked it. And I actually did DJing as well, because I still thought that might have been a better path. You know, the sports casting industry was so competitive. And even my father, when I decided to tell him, I wanted to go into sports casting, he had all his friends from other fields, construction, accounting, financial. Call me and say they would offer me a job out of college because he heard all the horror stories

that you can't get into this business. But I told him I wanted to try. I was gonna give it five years. And if not, then I'd join the Stinkitters you and you, or call one of his buddies. Oh, wow, so that's not exactly, there could have been a lot of love, but not a lot of belief, necessarily, that you were going to be able to be good enough to make it that way. That didn't probably seem like a real job, damn, either. No, no, and I can understand that, and it just was out of his love. He didn't want to see me be jobless

and struggling in a field, because I was a fairly shy kid. So I think he said that's not the one. I got a couple of older brothers that were much more outgoing than I was. And, but I don't think he thought that maybe this was gonna be the one for me. And again, he just did it out of his love for me.

I still feel though, like I have in front of me someone who's a fairly shy kid. Like you said something about not liking attention when there's an award and I wanted to blur it out. Don't go into television if you don't want attention, but it seems like you want to be so badly around the games that you will be on the edges of all of the attention and also kind of hide in the shadows because you don't ever want to be the story. You don't ever want to, you want your,

you have the confidence to know that what you're presenting is what you want to be the story, that the way the tapestry is woven is what you want people to pay attention to, not you the shy kid. Yeah, it sounds weird to say that. You know, this is the business I got into and love it. And I've become obviously comfortable being on television. But it's different when I love talking about the players and the coaches and the game. I don't love talking about myself so much.

But the interesting thing, players and the coaches and the game. I don't love talking about myself so much. But the interesting thing, so he's trying to get my dad's trying to get me perhaps other things. So when I get out of college, for the first two and a half years, it was a struggle. I wasn't making any money. I was doing more news, local news

at a Pekipsi radio station. And after about two and a half years of being turned down for a job, after job, I called him up. And I asked him to send me the steam to their application because I just was tired of them by myself and up there and it wasn't going anywhere. And I had a couple of jobs I thought I was gonna get that I didn't.

So the first wave of, all right, this is not gonna work out. And he told me when I called him, he said, I thought you told me we're going to give it five years. And he goes, why don't you give it a little bit longer? So initially he talked me out of it, but now he saw how much it meant to me. So because there's a good chance if he didn't say that that day, I'm getting a steam for their application.

I'm moving out of my apartment in Pekipsi and moving back home and becoming a steam fitter. Take me back there. Take me back to right before you're making the decision to quit. You're making the decision to, with sadness, I imagine, say, give me the steam fitter application. You were right, Dad.

I was wrong. I shouldn't have followed my heart. Right. Right. I lived in this tiny little apartment in Pekipsey and I think I was making $9 shouldn't have followed my heart. Right. Right. Um, I lived in this tiny little apartment in Pekipsi and I think I was making $9,000 a year something like that. So every month I had to get help for, see this comes across as a sob story and it's not. I'm asking the question. It's like you're not volunteering this. I'm doing it with a pro bar. Like I'm sticking a pro bar in the side of your

mouth and extracting it from you. I, your reluctance is duly noted. Continue. Okay. Don't yell at me. hearing this, I'm doing it with a pro bar. Like I'm sticking a pro bar in the side of your mouth and extracting it from you. Your reluctance is duly noted, continue. Okay, don't yell at me. The, so it became difficult because I felt bad. I'm asking my brother and every once in a while I'm a mother and father for money to pay for the rent. And again, the covering Pekipsi Town Board meetings is not what I had

in mind. I was doing some sports but it just wasn't working. And then the villain of a basketball play by play job came open and I put in for that. And I was told I was one of the final two candidates. And I'm thinking this is it. And I get the letter that thank you, but no, Bill Schweitzer, who was a great broadcaster, who I interned at WCBS when I was at Fordham, he got it. And that was kind of like the, this was the one I thought I was going to get. Because half the time you send out tapes and resumes, you don't even get a response. So it's very discouraging. So at that point, it was just really, really difficult thinking that, you know, I'm going to spend the next

20, 30 years in Pekipsi doing a radio station that Doing news that I didn't want to do. So it was I wasn't depressed by any mean But it was discouraging and I'm thinking I can't keep asking for money I've got to I've got to get a job that's going to pay the bills on my own Is the not wanting to talk about yourself a combination combination of shyness and the job, or is it one or the other, where you're sitting down for something that is meant to be revealing of who you are, how you are, and what shaped you, whatever the discomforts of that are? Is it something else, or you just don't like people knowing too much about you?

You wanna be careful about what people know about you or that might be part of it. I actually think, and this is why I was, you know, half serious when I told you about, just run Ernie's interview again, because like I find Ernie fascinating and interesting, and even though I've been in this business for a long time and I've been so blessed to have accomplishments,

I'm just like who'd be interested. I was asked to write a book, Bob Wolf's son, Rick Wolf, who just recently passed away, a wonderful man who was a book editor. He tried to get me to write a book for years, and my same response to him was, nobody's interested in a book that I would write.

And that's kind of the way I feel. No, but that's not true. And I'll tell you why. You have to tell people what it is that you've learned because you have accrued a great many wisdoms across 30 years of doing this in this business. Yes, you've been around some seminal sports moments and yes, you have obviously things that are people

are interested about if they're basketball fans, but you've learned some things about life that make you still do the job with love after your home burns down and all of the momentos that are in it and those people who are loving you now probably would enjoy hearing your gratitude in the pages that show love. Like it's you're telling me that your job is love story, all of it, that doing it is a labor of love, that you couldn't have done it without the love of others, including your fathers, and who doesn't like to read a good love story? That's a great point, and you're right. You're absolutely right. For example, the Marcus Thompson story, the thing I loved about that was that,

first off, how important my wife was during it, and my youngest son. He specifically mentioned them because I talked about them and how they were so instrumental in getting through it all. And then all the people to thank. And I wish I could have named them all by name. I threw up some of them out there to him. But you were hurting. You said wobbling is the word you use. You were hurting and you felt love and support of others that made it hurt less. Right. Like that's absolutely. I don't know what it's like to have your house burn down. I don't know what the pain of that is

or how one recovers from that. Or I don't know the, beyond the details I've read in the story, I don't think the audience knows the details. No, we were, my wife and I, before the season went to Napa Valley for a vacation with a couple, a few couples that are friends of ours and we're flying back in a Sunday morning.

It's an early flight from San Francisco, which is about an hour drive from Napa. So we had to get up about 4.30 and I had shut my phone off just so I could get a couple hours' sleep. And when I wake up, there's all these texts on the phone. And they're mostly from my family members, my son, my younger son, and my brothers. And I quickly found out from my son that the house is on fire. He was supposed to be in at home, but he was staying at our beach house. And so he didn't know the damage. So I quickly called our contractor who had been at the house all weekend

because we were having work done. And I'll never forget this. I call him up and I said, how bad is it? And he said, it's all gone. And that was like, we're about to get on a six-hour flight cross country. And that's, I have to tell my wife now, that it's all gone. Because we didn't know, we didn't know it was just a fire in the garage, it was a fire here. So that was stunning. And the whole ride home,'t know, we didn't know it was just a fire in the garage, it was a fire here. So that was stunning and the whole ride home, you know, we're just,

I can't even describe the different things, all right, what do I have to do now? What's next? What's next? And you kind of take over, you want to take over as the husband and the father, that, all right, you're going to make this right. And then you land and you go and you see it. And that's a whole different thing, being told it's gone and then you see it and it's gone. So that was really hard. And for me, the first few days, it just tried to be as strong as I could from our wife and kids in terms of,

all right, we have to do this, this, this, and this. And I call Doc Rivers. Doc Rivers' house burned down once. And I just asked him, what are you thinking? And he told me, he says, it's okay to? And he told me he says it's okay to let it go. He goes it's going to hit you soon because I was trying to be the man of the house. And he says but it's going to hit you soon. And four days later I just completely lost it, completely lost it. But then again you get these calls when the news got out. I had over 500 texts the day the news got out

And it's just texts of what can I do and it wasn't just hey, I hope you're okay I mean these were people that really wanted to do something and I had no idea what to tell them because I had never been in that position but they For me and I've told them all this it didn't matter what they said in the text It didn't matter what they said in the text. It didn't matter. It's just that they were reaching out and you knew that they were there. And that's the part that strengthened you. It is so incredibly stereotypically male to have your house burned down and do four days

of, how am I going to fix this instead of absorbing the emotions of you, your family, and everyone, almost hiding in how am I going to fix this instead of grieving what has just happened immediately. Right. Right. And that's just the mode. And that's what I got again for my father. Everything comes back so much to my father. That's the way he would have handled it.

Just all right. What do I do next? How do I fix this? But everything's gone. What do you mean? I have no idea what to do. First thing I have to do is get close. But here's where it was different for me and then for many people I have to deal with this.

So because of the success I've had in my job, we have a beach house. And it's like an hour and a half away from the home that burnt down. So instead of having to go into a motel and worry about insurance, we have great insurance and we have a beach house to stay. So it's just different. And I felt, okay, we have the means to get through this. It's going to be difficult. There's a lot of things to do.

But we have the means to get through this. It's gonna be difficult. There's a lot of things to do, but we have the means to get through this. You can be grateful for all of that and still have lost some things that can't be retrieved. Oh, there's no question. And still to this day, every once in a while, something will pop up being like, Oh, okay, no, that's gone too. And there were certain things that matter. I mean, clothes doesn't matter and The things that you don't think are important like I saved letters I love when people write letters. I like to try and write letters of thanks or whatever and any kind of letter I receive from somebody I saved and those were all gone and That was something that hurt certain pictures of the kids now pictures are good because now they're all on the phone, but prior to that when the children were little, those were gone.

Those are the things that I missed. So there's a lot of stuff that goes along. I remember, I remember, there's like five days in the sun, so ridiculous. I'm looking at my nails and my nails have grown like so long and I got to clip my nails. There's no nail clipper. Something so ridiculously silly is that. So everything had to be replaced and that was just to try and wrap your head around that. And that's where my season started the next week.

That's where my wife came in and she just took over. And she's, oh, you had to go. Yeah. The job calls, the job always calls. Right. The fire was on a Sunday, Thursday, we had our opening seminar, ESPN seminar in the city. And the following Monday or Tuesday, I had my first preseason game. And I didn't have a single tie, suit, dress shirt, pants, shoes, nothing, and it all had to be done. So it was like, Oh, you didn't, so you spent four days worrying about fixing it without fixing shit, she fixed it all.

You didn't do anything, you went and covered basketball games. It's amazing. I hit the lottery when I married my wife, Rosanne, and she's to this day She's the one that's handled the entire rebuild. She's doing all that stuff. Well, I you know took my drives to the airport to go call a game Well, how does that one work? What did she miss the most where are the places that there is no Replacing whatever the emotion of that is when when family history gets lost.

Pictures with her as well. Certain things that her mother, her mother passed when she was was young. Things that that her mother handed down to her, those were the things. There's certain jewelry that she got from her mother that meant so much to her. But she handled it really, I mean, she probably handled it better than I did in terms of, right, let's go forward. She's incredibly strong and incredibly smart and I just leaned on her.

Were you not aware that people cared about you that way? Like what was- No, no, no, no, no. I knew it, but not to this extent. And sometimes it's just a reminder. We all take things for granted. And I have so many friends that I'm so blessed with but when they just come out of the woodwork

and it's not just a quick text or call, they're doing it over and over and over again. What do you need? What do you need? It's incredible. But not working is never one of the actual options when you're built the way that you are correct. Right. No, there was no chance. Now, both my employees at ESPN and at Madison Square Garden Network, they said, come back whenever you want. Take your time. Just let us know when you're ready. That made a difference, too. I did take off one

preseason game because I was just a little overwhelmed with stuff, but you bum. I thought it was you, Lazy. I thought I thought it was good to just off a preseason game. Go back to work, but again, that's when you're, when you're the people that you work for, all they care about is, is that you're okay. And that was the case at the garden and that was the case at ESPN They just you tell us what you need you tell us when you want to come back and That that just was so comforting. What were the first big breaks after that that came in your career that Felt a little more like momentum as you came up? Well, the biggest one was, again, I'm in Pekipsi. I decide I'm going to give it five years.

And back then, there was no sports talk radio. All there was was the WFUV Fordham radio station had this talk show for 40 years. And Art Russ Jr. had a show on WABC Radio in New York. There was no WFA and there was no sports talk, and NBC Radio decided to have a night-time sports talk. I miss it was in the morning, Super Sales midday, Howard Stern the afternoon, and they're going to have sports talk.

Super Sales. Super Sales in the midday, holy shit. How about that, that that's lineup Okay, so this is the advent that if it's pre sports radio we're talking about What are we talking about here late 60s early 70s soupy sales? No, this is it's like a name from this is this is 85 86 Sales is like a name from why this is this is 85 86 Okay, I'm sorry, but super sales is from a different time. This was Pat This was pass his TV time he but he was doing the radio there and so they had a sports talk show that I heard about

I'm thinking maybe I could get in there and I found out that producer was a young man named Chris Doyle who I went to college with But had lost contact with them thinking it can't be the same Chris Doyle. So I called him and I said, listen, any job openings. He goes, no, not right now, but if something comes up, I'll let you know. So I continued the job in Kipsey, which was six days a week, and he called me after a few weeks and said, we need a producer on Saturday nights. So that was, I started working at WNBC Radio in New York, the one day a week ahead off from Pekipsi,

and then it became two days, and it became three days. So that was the biggest break. And again, it's just somebody I went to college with. Every job I've ever received was through somebody that I knew that I had a relationship with. And that was the theme throughout the whole damn thing. How soon after that were you doing actual play-by-play? and that was the theme throughout the whole damn thing. How soon after that were you doing actual play-by-play?

Because that requires a great deal of training, it requires a great deal of practice, sculpting to get good at. You can't just be put at a microphone and do it well. Right, well, it was, I did mostly producing work, but then I went to the program director, and I said, hey, listen, I'd like to do reports from J. Stadium, Yankee Stadium, Madison Square Garden. And he said, okay, we'll send you out there. So the sports talk show

host was guy named Jack Specter. And Jack would have me go out and cover it. So it became half producing, half announcing. Then it became more announcing than producing. It was just a slow process. And then the big break was when they did a simul cast on the MSG network. And the producer on the simul cast was Mike McCarthy. I was the producer on the radio cast. So we became great friends. And he got put up higher in the pecking order at the garden.

And when a radio job came open for the Knicks to do the play by play, he went to their bosses and said, I got a young guy that's going to, we think, is really good. And that changed everything. When did you realize you were good at it? I thought I was pretty good at the radio. When you grow up in New York and you listen to Mar of Albert,

both radio and TV, that's what you want, something stirs in you. I mean, there's nobody better. No one's ever called basketball better. So, you know, I modeled myself after him, but not like him. And I thought after the first year, I'm like, okay, I'm pretty good at this. If you told me I was gonna be the radio voice

of the next, for the next 30, 40 years, I'd be the happiest person in the world. And I would have been. The dream looked like what back then, was it to be Marv Albert? Something like Marv Albert? I thought I achieved the dream when I got the Nick Radio job. And I remember Marv was still doing TV for the MSG network then, and he called me after I got hired, called my house. And I remember Marb was still doing TV for the MSG network then and he called me after I got hired, called my house. And I remember getting off the phone saying to my wife, Marb Albert just called me to congratulate me. Welcome to the team. It's like, it doesn't, that dream doesn't get any better than that.

So again, that's what kind of, I never imagined doing full-time television. I thought, ready, it was going to be my gig. That's what I always did, and that would have been fine. How old were you when Marvowler calls your house to tell you you've arrived at your dreams? I'm gonna say 28. Okay, so that call on the landmarks of moving moments that you've had, where you remember the lighthouses of emotion, like, oh my God, I'm so happy that I'm here I know

that you probably feel a degree of that daily just because of the energy of being around what you get to be around but at the beginning what are the landmarks? When you see the person again now it makes like you see this person anything wow back then how they helped me, how they helped change my life. That's when I get the most emotional, when you get a chance to see. For example, Pat Riley, when I was Nick Radio-Nozor, I used to do this pre-game recording with him,

and you'd go into his office, and he had dark lights, and you'd go in and ask a few questions, and then you'd leave. There was no social banter. But I learned so much from those interviews. He would go into his office and he had dark lights and you'd go in and ask a few questions and then you'd leave. There was no social banter. But I learned so much from those interviews and so has intensity, et cetera. So after the first year, he gets, I didn't think he knew my name, but a week after the first year, I got a handwritten letter from Pat Riley thanking me for the

professional job I did that year and I thought that was just the greatest thing. Then he has his four years of great success in New York and leaves to come to Miami and after the announcement I got another letter from him thanking me for four years of being part of a great journey. The letter meant so much to me that at a time when he was going through all this, he took the time to handwrite a letter to me. So I lost those letters in the fire. But my wife, and she didn't tell me right away, there were certain things when the people go in to try and salvage stuff. They found a few things. One of them was that letter. She had it sent to be restored and cleaned and stuff, and she just sent it to me the other day And I get the letter and I look at it and I just got so emotional

Because of that letter and I brought it to Pat Before game one of the finals and I showed it to him and He got emotional as well and it that's that's when those things come up And and when you see the person who made a difference, because that lady gave me confidence that Pat Riley thought I was good at my job. When you're an NBA play-by-play guy and Pat Riley thinks you're good, it gives a young man confidence

and that's what came through and that's why I got so emotional. He appreciates both professionalism and craftsmanship. He probably saw very early on that you were made of a certain thing that he respected and respects the fact that you take care and the work that you do. Right, and it makes a difference. It makes you, again, it just, it makes you feel, okay, I can do this. What else was found or recovered?

The other thing that she didn't tell me about right away is I'm not a big memorabilia guy. I've never really asked for autographs, but one year the NBA had this situation where they let players put their nicknames on the back of their jersey. It was they did it for one week. That was a cool idea. So ESPN, when we were doing our games, they gave us jerseys. Jeff Bengani had the notorious JVG. Mine was the gray mamba, because of obviously my hair. So I'm thinking, you know what?

I'm gonna get, I'm gonna get Kobe to sign that. And he signed the jersey from one mamba to another. And it was great. And I got to know him pretty well at the end of his career. And then even after his career, more so I did a couple of speaking engagements with him. So that one really meant something to me. And I was, that's one of the first things I thought of one about, oh, would we lose? And my wife found that they found that. And that's being restored as we speak. You were a fan first, right? Oh, crazy fan.

Big Nick fan, you know, we say, when I was a kid, my dad, I thought he was the strongest man in the world. And Dave DeBusher was the second strongest. So I was loved, DeBusher loved Clyde Frazier, and that's, you know, another thing that just blows me away. I bought, when I was probably around 10, I bought a poster of Clyde, and I put it up in the garage where we used to have our weights for, me and my brothers. And the poster is still up. My mother still lives in the same house that I grew up in and the poster is still up. And now I've been working with the man for 30 years and he's become this wonderful friend.

It's like you just, you can't make this stuff up. You don't understand. And you question like, why me? Why did I, why have I had all these blessings and have all these things happen? Because that's not something you ever dream of. People I'm sure always ask you your best call or favorite call or whatever, but I'm more interested in the times that you've had to put the or accidentally

put the professionalism aside because the fan grabbed you because the fan while you're doing the telecast, while you're doing the broadcast, you're still the broadcaster who needs to nail the moment the important moments, but The fan just grabs you and you're like whoa. I got Shifted there by the emotion of that and my professionalism got displaced

That happened a lot early Because I was a Nick fan as a kid and every year they were competing for a championship the whole four years that a kid and every year they were competing for a championship the whole four years that Pat Riley was a coach. And there were sometimes where I thought I just, I was a little over the top, like be a little bit more. Even though it was a Nick radio cast in New York, you still have to main, you know, have some objectivity. But I thought a few times that it was a little too much. But that, you know, one thing, Dan, I'll say is, I've been able to, for most of the time, maintain that. Even when I do nick games early, big playoff games

on NBC or ESPN, I think anybody listening would think, oh, he's not rooting for the next. He's clearly playing it down the middle. The one time that I thought that maybe I became too much of a fanboy was Linsan was insanity because I've never seen anything like that. How somebody comes out of nowhere and becomes one of the most famous athletes in the world for about three weeks. And that's all it lasted. It seems like it was longer. And that was, there was like pure joy in calling those games. And I think probably I came across as a bit of a fanboy during those.

Do you get nervous before games? I still get nervous before game one of the finals every year. That's the butterflies. And I didn't, if I didn't have it, I'd be worried. But other than that, you do it so often. The only time I ever got nervous if I felt I wasn't prepared. And oh, that's never possible, is it? Every once in a while things happen where you don't feel you're as prepared as you you always are. So there's a little little feeling. The reason I laugh at

you is because I'd like for you to explain to people what your preparation requires. I'm I'm crowbarring this out of you, but it's not possible for you to be as good as you are without you being overprepared by X percent. Like there must be so much that doesn't get used. My guess is not knowing anything but your work that you are wildly overprepared. That's exactly it. And and you also have to know going in that what's in that folder right there? What is in that folder right there what is in that folder right there this was the interviews We did today with the players not not one percent of that will make it into the broadcast. No this this stuff will What's how much of that will?

10% okay, that looks like the library Kevin Spacey had in seven of writing and it's not even gonna be 10% You're wildly over prepared for everything you're doing that might be 10% You know dick Stockton who I've looked up to as as one of the great underrated play-by-play announces of all time all different sports versatile He gave me a great Bit of advice. I was doing a game for next TV. He's doing TNT next to me I've got my ridiculous amount of notes sitting in front of me And I'm getting them all in order. I look over at him and he has the game notes with like five just little things written And he sees me looking at it and he goes he goes, I like how prepared you are

And he says and I'm ready to go to he says, but just remember he goes everything that you have to be worried about Is on the court. It's not down in your notes. You don't want to have your head in the notes when something happens. And it was a great piece of advice. And you know, you put all these hours and preparation in, but you have to let the game dictate what you use. And most of the time, if you use 15% of your notes, then that means it's probably a blowout and you had to go into the stories.

Because the game is still it. And you know, when I listen and I tell young broadcasts us all the time, you can tell who's just doing the notes because they want to get all their information out. And I was like that early on, you want to impress. You want to impress your bosses, you want to impress yourself, you want to impress your colleagues, and then you realize you've got to let the game dictate what you want. But what I try and do, every game, you know, for example, the NBA, they have 13 players who are eligible every game. Then they have, you know, two on the side, whatever. If any of those 13 players have the game of their life, I want to have enough information to tell his story.

So that's kind of the way I approach it. Do you look at anything that you have done in your past professionally with a regret, a call, a decision, anything. Do you look back on it and say this didn't go the way that I would have planned it now with the wisdom I have accrued now? No, I mean, there are plenty of calls that I butchered and mistakes I made on the air, but I think that's impossible for that not to happen. Are you gentle with yourself about it? No, not at first.

I mean, the first, however many years, it kills you, like just kills you and shakes your confidence to the point where you're thinking about it every night and at that situation comes up again, I hope I can do that, I mean, it stays with you. You can't be as good as you are without being a perfectionist that way, right? It has to hurt.

Right, and it should, because you want to get better, but as long as you learn from it. But now as you get older, it's, you know, you realize it's live television, you're gonna make mistakes, and it's okay, you have to just own up to mistakes. You know, I told this recently, where last year, first game of the playoffs, Brooklyn played Boston. Jason Tena makes this great play at the end,

wins the game for the Celtics. It was like one of the classic finishes. And I so butchered the call, and I was really upset that night because I felt our team had one of the best telecasts we've had all year, like everything clicked. And that's one of the real fun parts of the job when everybody from the producer director the camera people the graphics people were all just kicking ass and we did that day until I blew it at the end so that's what that's what tormented me and that took a

couple of days but then you you know you realize okay get back into it it's it's last year Mike brain, consummate professional was tormented for days? What? Maybe tormented is too strong. I didn't sleep that night. I was upset. I just, I wanted to do a game the next day,

so badly, just so I could get just back in and. It's a bit of a craze though. It's a bit of a, it's an insanity too. No question. Like, I mean, you've been doing this too long to have sleepless nights of torment because you haven't made a career Ending decision in the broadcast you haven't made a mistake that ends your career, but just you had a bad night. Yes Um, or a bad ending to a bad night, but I guarantee you ask any play-by-play

An answer and they'll tell you the same thing now some might be better but most that i know i have some great friends uh... that have done it and we share the stories i and eagles a great friend of mine kevin harland brian annis we talk about this all the time and uh... we're all the same way

i'm just read i have a friend who does this who describes that as spending the night eating his own right arm Right, like just just consuming his right arm because of the way that you're ravaging yourself because you've been something less than perfect in front of people Right, you let it go as you get older you let it go and I was better about it than then then then I had been the past on such an important game But it's all it's all part of the game. What other advice have you gotten from broadcasters that has stayed with you? You mentioned that you, was it you said was stocked in November, right?

That obviously one of the best to do it, what are some other advice is that you've gotten along the way from people that have been most helpful? You know two were, though I love listening to and gave me advice. Ferrin Lundquist in Dick Enberg. Lundquist had a phrase, celebrate the game. And it's so appropriate.

Because unfortunately, sometimes the game is bad. Sometimes you have to criticize players, coaches, refs. But people are watching the game because they love basketball. They don't want to hear you just killing people all the time. It's a game they love. That's why they're watching it. So celebrate the good parts and Vern was great at that.

And he also helped in terms of telling you, make the people feel like the guy who's sitting next to you or the woman who's sitting next to you, but your best friends and are having just a time of your life together. And that I thought was really important. So that's something I did. The other with Dick Enberg was people want to know about the athletes that you're talking about. So give them some personal anecdotes and let them know that these players, these young men and the NBA are human beings that have really interesting stories.

So those two, you know, more than just the technique of doing play by play, those two things I thought are important. It must be strange to you as fundamentally decent as you are to see the coarsening in sports coverage when you're just trying to tell nice stories about an athlete who's human but you come from a tabloid city you've seen sports television become argument television you've seen Anthony Davis be amazing and majestic but a source of just endless criticism it must be bothersome to you to watch what sports coverage has become.

I hate it. Journalism has become criticism. And I hate that. People feel that they have to be critical and to be considered a good journalist or to be a good analyst. And there's so much out there that's, you know, it's it's difficult to put yourself in their positions. I mean we all make mistakes. I make mistakes on a year, players make mistakes on a court, and it just it's become too critical. And it's not just having to be critical, it's the words that are used in the criticism. You know, I've always felt I'll criticize somebody, but I'll only use words that I would say to their face. For example, if you have a terrible gain, you could say, oh boy, damn it, he just was awfully stunk.

It was an embarrassment what he did. Or you can say, boy, damn really struggle tonight. You're saying the same thing. It's just, it's a more, you main way to say it. Why do you have to crush people, why you criticize them? There's a, there's a, there's a respectful way to do it. And I think a lot of people have gotten away from that, and that bothers me. Has it gotten meiner because you've worked in New York for a long time.

The tabloids have played with this for a while. Basically, sports radio and sports division was invented there. Sports radio is infected just about everything that is the sports coverage today. Yeah, no, it's definitely gotten meerner. Often there's a mocking tone to it. It's, you know, unfortunately that's what gets people noticed. And that's why when I find, you know, when I talk to college students who want to do this, that's something I bring up and I use that expression I just

set you before is like only say something about somebody that you would say to their face if you had to because if you're doing words that you'd be hesitant to say write them face-to-face, I don't think I don't think you're doing it the right way. But you have watched and seen many of your peers This doesn't happen to you a lot just get wrecked by criticism You mean that the the broadcast is getting ready. Yes. I'm talking about there There is such a swell of all manner of emotion around sports right now and such a cruelty in the way that we absorb content sports right now. And such a cruelty in the way that we absorb content with the advent, I shouldn't even say the advent of social media, but there was a lot of

criticism on social media that would not be said to anybody's face. And you manage a space in this ecosystem that somehow doesn't get a lot of what I'm talking about, which is that announcer stinks for all of these reasons. Right. No, it's incredible. Well, Twitter is just, it's toxic in terms of it gives people the license just to destroy people. And I guess it's the old thing, you know, people want to make

themselves better by bringing down others, excuse me, to their level. $5. Don't pay any attention. It's just a fine for coughing and no microphones and inside joke around here. You're going to put the $5. You're going to actually get the cash out of your pocket here and give us $5. You've got Van Gundy and Mark Jackson. They're perpetually getting hammered. Those guys are perpetually getting beat up. They're more opinionated than you are. You're playing it down the middle, but they're part of the telecast is always something that's polarizing because there's a lot of

people listening and they're gonna get mad about something. Well, they're criticism though from what I view it at is they have such a love for the game. So when they see a player, a coach, or a ref, or the league, not doing something that's for the best for the game, that's where they criticize it, because they want the best of the game that they love the most. And that's to me, what makes them so good is they're not hesitant to make their feelings felt. But I also feel their love of the game comes out all the time. And I mean, the criticism that they get, I have no idea. I think they're, you know, for me, it's a dream come true working with

these two. We've been friends all three of us for over 30 years. And to do it this long with them, sitting by my side. That's one of the reasons why I've had success. Because I'm with two guys that I love as brothers teach me about the game and I'm so comfortable with them on the air. Do you tell them how you feel about them? It's so funny you say that because they don't like that kind of stuff. They're not interested. They know how I feel. They don't need me to say it. But just the other day before a game, one of the finals, I sent them both a text telling them how much they mean to me. But I specifically said at the end of the text,

I don't want to hear anything back. You don't respond to this because it would be a mock. They'd be mocking me for doing that. But they know how I feel about them. Why'd you feel the need to do that right before that? Because I hadn't said it in a while. And that's kind of, you know, again, it goes back to what we were talking about before when you have kindness thrown your way.

And it makes you feel good. You like to show it. You know what? I can do the same thing. Maybe I can make somebody feel good with a nice text or a nice phone call. And I just felt, because I hadn't told them in a while, and we've been doing it a long time, and it kind of came because, you know, there was a press release about my 18th finals, and I can't comprehend that. That's not something I can process. That I've been able to call the finals for 18 years. That's beyond anything I could even possibly dream about, and to do it with them, it just was a, it made me feel, boy, how blessed I am to have these two next to me. And that's why I sent it.

How do you feel about them? I mean, you've told me they're like brothers, but what does that mean? They would do anything in the world for me, and they know I'd do anything in the world for them. And that's on a personal note, on a professional note. The beauty of it is we can say anything to each other on the air and nobody gets offended. And that's rare in the business to have that. And I think again because we came in the league the same time, Jeff taught me so much about the league

as a coach when he was an assistant. Mark taught me so much about as a player and then as a coach. We watched our families grow up together. We just, and we spend a lot of time away from our families with each other. That it's just been a special part of my life to have all these wonderful things happen with them next to me. And I can't imagine it being any other way. But you don't tell them that you love them. Oh no, Jeff would smack me if I told them.

But they know I do. But it's not said between you. It's just funny because it's so obvious. You couldn't work together for 30 years without the level of understanding, appreciation, respect, admiration that you have for them. These are difficult jobs. Man, these things splinter. They don't last 30.

Friendships, some last 30 years, many last 30 years, but these work relationships can be fraught with all sorts of garbage. Right. Not everybody's comfortable verbalizing that stuff. And I know that. And if I think somebody's uncomfortable with that, maybe I won't say it as much. I'm like, my dad was, again, go back to my father. My father for a marine construction worker was a very affectionate man and was not afraid

to talk about that. And I got that from him. So I'm very comfortable with expressing my emotions and telling people, but other people aren't. So what did you admire most about your father? I used to watch, like we'd go to church on a Sunday as a family, and he seemed to know every single person in the church and would have a nice word for every single person. And they were also happy to see him, John. So that, I really took that away and my mother as well and still the faith were Catholic, the faith in God

that has guided me throughout my life. But I think with him it was that he just made everybody feel good around him and they were also happy to see him. You're the same, no? I've tried to live my life that way. And, you know, I've been... It's hard for me to say, I can't say that. Well, but you're your father's son, right? It doesn't have to... Like, if you've been purposeful about that, if you saw it and you're patterning, if you

admired it about him, if you learned it from him, it would stand to reason that you would see the importance of having grace and touch that way. Right. Yes. So, yes, of having grace and touch that way. Right. Yes. So yes I've tried to be that way. I hope I could come even You know one tenth of the way he was with people would make me feel good. How often is your faith tested? Wow, you can get in deep on me here. It's tested a lot You know you question that all the time. And I think that's healthy. And I've had people who are in the Catholic Church tell me that is a good thing.

You should question it. So, yeah, no, that happens on a fairly regular basis. The reason I ask the question is I'm wondering how often humanity disappoints you because you've made a point of saying you know what I think people are good and I see examples again and again of people not being good Doesn't mean they're capable. They're not capable of the former I just see a lot of examples all the time of Bad stuff happening to good people and so I could see where even the godliest of men would get rattled

there. Oh yeah, no you wonder. For example, with the last year was there were some bumps. For example, I contacted COVID before game 7 of the Eastern Conference finals. So I missed game 7 and then the first two games of the finals last year, Mark Jones filled in. And I'm like, oh, all this time, I don't get it. And now I get it at the three most important games of the year. So I was upset with that, but okay, that kind of stuff happens. Then the fire happens. And okay, here's another thing to overcome. And after that, one of my dearest friends from my early days in radio passed away from cancer.

So that's the night I told you I just lost it. It's like one after another and I'm saying to myself, what have I done here? Like, why? Why is this stuff? And you quickly get past it because you just, number one, you have to. And number two, that's what my faith has taught me. That part of the road is really difficult. And in many ways, you show who you are through the difficult times. It's easy to be happy and great and gracious and wonderful.

And as you keep saying decent to people when things are going well, can you do it when things aren't going well? I'm a little bit surprised, and perhaps I shouldn't be, because it requires a great level of care what you do. I will say it again to make it all look that easy. But the idea that at this stage in your career with everything you've done at work, that you wouldn't permit yourself to miss three games because you came down with a COVID virus that required you to not go to work because you can't work if you've got COVID,

like it's a bit maddening the idea that you have to be at work under all circumstances, work is the important thing. These were important games, Dan. These were important games. When I think you know how silly that can sound when real life things happen. You're right on it and quite honestly two things I'll say to that. Number one, when I was stuck in my hotel room in San Francisco and I had to

watch the first two games and it just looks so big and wonderful on TV that warriors in the Celtics, it gave me appreciation of, you know what, you've been so blessed to do this for so long. It showed me again how, what a big deal this was to call these games. What an honor it was to call these games. That's number one. And then the other thing that you bring up off that, because sometimes you focus so much on work, there are, you asked me regret, you know what my regret is, sometimes that maybe I did too many games, that maybe I should have been home, because I missed dance recitals, baseball games, basketball games,

birthdays, you know, my kids are, they're the most important thing in the world to me, and I missed a lot of stuff with them. And frequently, at time's from thinking, you know what, I was on the road too much. Did I have to do it too much? Did I have to drive that ambition to keep year after year doing so many games? And that's something that I'll always wrestle with. Have you told them that?

Yep. Oh, yeah. We've talked about it all the time time and I used to say sometimes to them I would say and I'd have to talk with my with my wife should I should I cut back should I cut back on games I'm not and she'd always tell no no and the kids they they love what you do when you're home your home you have the summers off so that was something that I constantly kept with her. And I, you know, I trust her word. And she was always good with that. And I would always apologize to the kids. And I like, no, that, it's great.

It's all great. There is not even a little bit correct of you anywhere in there, wherever the most fragile of broadcasting insecurities reside that thinks to himself. Man, Mark Jones could have replaced me there. Could have replaced me forever. You know what I mean? Like, we can be protective about our spaces.

And if you, there aren't many jobs like the one that you have. So if someone can step in there, you don't want to lose it. And you also want to be someone who's giving with the space. Listen, I have confidence in my ability to do the job. I think I'm pretty good at it. But there's been a feeling all these years of doing the finals, all these

years that somebody's going to say, wait a minute, we can get somebody better than him. And that's part of the drive of making sure you still prepare and want to be at your best. Because you think that all right, you're easily replaceable. And if you do, and I'm very well aware of this, you take away the top announcer. Yeah, people might be upset and say, oh boy, I miss him. That goes away so quickly. There's so easily replaced. There are, right now, there are so many great basketball play-by-play voices that could do what I do easily. There's so many good ones and I think it's

important to know that you're easily easily replaced because it motivates you to just try and stay good and stay prepared and you shouldn't feel that anymore. You got it. No you got it. You're okay. you're you can you can get a little a little lazier and it'll be still got it you know it you can you can take half that many notes and you'll still be okay all right i'm gonna i'm gonna throw something back at you you're not gonna remember this but this was during lebron's time in Miami and everybody was writing stuff about lebron it got to the point where what else can you say about him? And you wrote a column on him that was, I was blown away by it. It was incredible. And again, considering all the things that had been written, and I saw

you the next day, and I said to you, listen, that column today, I said, it was perfect. I said, I've never seen him put, you know, the way you described him and what he was and what he was going through. It was perfection. And my question to you was, do you know when you hit send to your editor, do you know this one, now this one I nailed, this one was special. Do you remember me saying that to you? I remember that you were a fusive in your praise. I don't know what my answer was to that I could answer it now and I don't know if it would be similar to. All right, tell me your

answer now. I, what real confidence is for me in writing where I have my most confidence is in trying to live up to the standard of my father who was a man who did not do pleasure. And I was somebody who was always trying to please him. I eventually got to the point in my writing and few other things where if it met my standard and I hit send, I knew when it was good and there was great reward in that. I can't imagine that I would share that with a stranger though at the time who's just giving me a compliment.

No, what you said was, I don't hit send unless I feel it's that, which is kind of similar. But I remember at first I'm like, oh, there's no way. I mean, this article was perfection. There's no way you've got to know that it's different. And then I realized, and it's part of the way I try and think is you don't want, I don't want to go on the air unless I'm so fully prepared and ready to go. Just like you're not going to hit that send button unless you feel that you've done everything possible to make that a perfect column. But I don't write anymore. I know. Because it's hard and you're still out here doing it. You're still out here

doing it. Worried that when you miss three games you're not at work. Damn it. You need to be at work. Mike Breene needs to be calling the big games in basketball. He's been doing it very well for 18 years. I promise, I'm getting better at it. I don't believe you're wrong. No, no, no, no, no, that's true. I'm much better than I used to be. So you are totally insane person. To get to where you got to at your 20s,

you must have been driven beyond all reasonable measure by ambition. No, no, I don't, I've always felt that I have a really good balance that I know what's my family's the most important thing in my life and I've managed to be able to do that. There's just, you know, there's just in the business that I came and nobody knew who I was and I had to work really hard to get there,

to get people to take notice and then respect. You just feel you have to continue to do that because that's how you got there. So the idea of like, you know, laying off the reins a little bit, I just can't, because I still do the same amount of work every game. Well, this means that you can't even imagine your retirement from here.

No, no, that's different. I'm gonna surprise you here. I'm not gonna be somebody who's doing crazy amount of games well into later years. I do and I owe it to my wife to be able to have more time with her because the kids now are out of the house and She's the one that has held the fort for so many years that I want to be able to have her be the one to decide what we're doing Where you want to go where all the different things that she's wanted to do John Stockton when he gave his this $10 John Stockton when he gave his Hall of Fame speech

I remember him saying what the key for my career was every time I walked out the door to go to the airport I knew everything was was taking care of at home and that's the way I felt my entire life saying what the key for my career was every time I walked out the door to go to the airport, I knew everything was taken care of at home. And that's the way I felt my entire life. How would you, as we get out of here, how would you articulate for us what that love is of building a family, building a home, building a life in support of your dreams, your family, and your faith. How would you articulate that to people who don't understand

what it's like to be married to a man who's on the road? How many days a year? I'd never counted, don't ever want to count. Again, it goes back to growing up in a house that had a share of problems, and we didn't have means, but again, there was there was love every day and to see my mother and father and all my brothers and we was such a such a wonderful caring loving home that was like a dream at the

boy it's to be wonderful to have and then you you hit the lottery by meeting a woman of your dreams have have three children together, and have this incredible life, and she has to sacrifice so much. For the first five years of married, she made a lot more money than I did. And then when she had kids, she gave up to be home with the kids,

and to share that and grow. That's the greatest accomplishment of my life is the family that I want to say I've raised, but she did more of the raising than I did because I was away. But also she was supporting you being happy chasing your dreams, right? Every step of the way. Every step of the way. She's the most incredible, selfless, smart, funny woman, crazy sports fan. It's just of all the blessings that I've had, the day that I was set up with her by a woman I work with on a blind date, and that's the

number one blessing because it led to everything else. How did it go over when you came home after botching the Tatum call? Was she supported or was it, oh, what a bag of shit you were trying. No, she knew how much I'd be upset about it. So when I called her that night, she knew exactly. And she's always, oh, no, it's okay, it's okay. But she knows that whatever she says, it's not gonna help that. You're still eating your right arm.

Guys are crazy. You can't be as excellent as he is without caring that way. Mike, thank you so much. She was good having this conversation with you. I enjoyed it. I so appreciate it. I hope it wasn't too boring, but. You're a little self-conscious about boring.

What is it? You're trying to stay so far out of the way? What are you doing there? Mike brain story is interesting, and his work is fantastic. And I wanted to show our listeners, the man behind the work, at least a little bit because you're a bit concealed. People don't know a lot about you.

This is good for you. You're not polarizing. You get to somehow skate through this entire cruel wilderness of sports, relatively unscathed. Then I believe because you carry yourself with a very decent aura that makes it hard to dislike you. So thank you for sharing your time with us today. Thank you, Dan. I believe because you carry yourself with a very decent aura that makes it hard to dislike you.

So thank you for sharing your time with us today. Thank you, Dan.