The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - South Beach Sessions - Mike McDaniel

Episode Date: July 12, 2024

The future of the NFL looks a lot brighter with Mike McDaniel leading the way… How many people do you know made their childhood dream come true? How many coaches are truly understanding of the pressures young players face today... and lead their entire team with empathy above all? There aren’t many like the Miami Dolphins head coach. On this South Beach Sessions, Mike opens up about why his unique approach to the game is borne out of his obsessive drive and valuing relationships beyond the traditional player-coach dynamic. Mike also gets candid with Dan about his journey getting sober, and learning how to balance the highs and lows of fatherhood with one of the most demanding jobs out there. The 2024 Dolphins Training Camp begins July 28th through August 15th. Claim your free tickets and view the full schedule at MiamiDolphins.com/TrainingCamp. The Dolphins’ 2024 NFL Regular Season kicks off Sunday, September 8th against the Jacksonville Jaguars at Hard Rock Stadium. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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SAB, the CV. Copyright 2024. Proximo. Jersey City, New Jersey. Please drink responsibly. Hello and welcome to South Beach Sessions. I'm legitimately thrilled about this one and not for the reasons this guy thinks I don't think. I'm a fan of his general way.

He is doing it differently. He's a football coach and he's made the Dolphins a little more successful than they were, but his personality seems not only unusual but authentic in a way that suggests real leadership. I'm happy to have you in town. I've loved the way that you've carried yourself and now the pressure starts. You got to win playoff games because it's been a joyride for two seasons as the Wiz Kid and people have all sorts of questions now. The pressure starts? Yeah I like to meet the delusional folk

that got got to have this job and have two years where they didn't think they had pressure. I don't envy how lopsided the sport makes you guys because it seems to me like you want to live a full and balanced life and then you also have this passion that probably eats a good 80 hours a week out of your brain power. Yeah, you know it's uh, it's similar to the path of many American or human is that there's certain things that you can't control. So you do have to understand that you can do the job the right way, you can do to the best of your abilities and things can't work out and you have

to be okay with that. It's, it's, it is all encompassing. There are a lot of people that have opinions based upon your success or failure and you have a, you have a part in that but it's definitely a team that decides that but I wouldn't shed too many tears. It is public, it's rough but it's not that different than many people experience life where there's things that you can't control that you are subject to. Oh but I've always found fascinating in your line of work that there are things you can't control but by are subject to. Oh, but I've always found fascinating in your line of work that there are things you can't control,

but by nature you guys are control freaks. And then you plan and you plan and you plan and then somebody fumbles or something happens out there that is out of your control. To me, it's the great exasperation of what you do for a living, that you would be passionately obsessed to the lopsided detriment of your life

and then you get out there on Sunday and everything you did is out of your control. No, I think that it's one of the greater challenges to lead in this scope or in this way at this time in the world. I think there's a lot of things that are drawing you to become a control freak, that are drawing you into experiencing your experience first and foremost above all others. But you know, there's the caveat of the position is that your head coach that has the ability to really influence a lot of people's lives, you are by nature the job of servitude and so you should be serving others.

I think the challenge that is not deep diving into your own personal experience and how the outcomes affect you is also what you sign up for is to be a head coach and influence the lives of other people in a positive way. So for me, the pressure, all of it, is part of the job. And I think part of the challenge is to let go of the control, is to be a teammate, is to properly empower teammates with things. And really have all your teammates being uplifted with autonomy, with things that they have to call their own. It's such a farce to over control and over try to regulate what's going on within an NFL organization because truth be told you are you're vulnerable to their work It don't get delusioned. It is not you it is the accumulation of everyone

So that's not what leadership looked like in your world 20 years ago That's not what you grow up learning from the idea of that job is service leadership isn isn't, hey you follow me, it's how can I help? Yeah I think, you know, I think fortuitously enough I didn't come from any scope of background of leadership. I got to witness it organically of what was effective and what was not. You know, there's no no one in my family had had tremendous amount of power in any of their jobs. And you know, for my family, I hadn't gone to college yet. We have a couple family members that have graduated college now besides me. But you know overall I think you know there I knew from my first conscious

memory that the things that I would view that I would aspire to be hopefully one day I didn't look the part by nature anyway so I was going to have to be unique and different different was I attached to greatness. I saw Michael Jordan and I guess when I was a little older, Tiger Woods, but you know, any supreme athlete of my, Bo Jackson and the, all of my. What do you mean your first conscious memory? Loving sports you're talking about?

Just like conscious memory of myself. My conscious memory of myself was loving sports and was also, you know, I wanted to be a head coach of a NFL football team since I was like five years old. So... What the hell is that? Uh, I don't know. A obsessive compulsiveness as a, uh, a five year old.

Um, it is probably, uh, unique. Uh, you know, there were a couple of years after I was five that I spent time thinking about being an architect or something, but I was probably unique. I don't think there are a lot of five year olds who'd like, was there a coach you had modeled there? I didn't, I spent time thinking about being an architect or something. But probably unique. I don't think there are a lot of five year olds who like, was there a coach you had modeled there? I didn't, I did not. No, there wasn't. Just you imagined yourself as a five year old leading football players as the

head coach. Yes. I, I, I, I, I was tied to the, to an idea that my mom predisposed in me, which was that I was special, that I could be great. And then along the way, I started to notice that my will and my drive could get me to places that, you know, if I would've, basically I learned at a young age that if I was overambitious and I had big dreams, even if I didn't realize them, I would maximize myself.

And so the biggest dream that I could come up with as a five-year-old in Greeley, Colorado was be the head coach of the Denver Broncos. And so from that moment on, I'm recognizing that nothing about myself is really, there's not a ton of similarities that I'm seeing people doing that job and living in that world and leading people, but there's fragments of things that you pick up that you notice that are kind of like your personality and then you you you You know for me, I just kind of thought about well theoretically if you could help Anyone achieve their hopes and dreams and you could convince them as such they

Don't really care about what the way you look or the way you talk or the way that and and the more that you could you could add value to people's lives and show them that you have valuable things to contribute to their lives it can look any way that you want it I have a thousand follow-up questions your ambition is a five-year-old being extreme, where else did it reveal itself? You said it was showing up all over the place because that's super unusual what you're talking about. Well, you know I brought it up before and I'm never able to do it quite justice but there is a moment in my third, in third grade that was a game changer for how I approached

all of life and something that provides residuals to this day. It was, you know, piggybacking on, I had a single mom that was building me up all the time and saying I was so great at anything any little thing I did was unbelievable and I could be and I started to buy into that. Your best cheerleader giving you confidence. And then you know then I'm in first grade and maybe not the most popular kid in the class or whatever and you're trying to digest the world you know the world was my mom before but now now the world says that I'm maybe not that or

giving me reasons to think that I'm not that you know not being the you know my mom said that I was so cute why don't the girls love me you know those types of things you're not fitting in exactly total you know not the types of things. You're not fitting in exactly. Totally, you know, not the way that, you know, I kind of saw myself through my mom's eyes. And then third grade, there's a multiplication test that's like a timed hundred question deal. And I really wanted to, you know, get a hundred percent and finish first.

I wanted to be the best in class. Well, there was someone that along the way that I'd noticed that was better at math than me Stephanie call this she she was like she also happens to be like eight inches taller than me and just dominating math and she I could tell she was better at than me but then this one day we have this test and I say, no, not today, Steph, I'm going to win this test in my head. You know, no, I am the best. And I just decided to, to mimic what my mom had told me blindly, even though I knew it not to be the case.

I ignored that. Whatever that, that narrative within your mind. And I, sure enough, I won the test, the whole competitive finish within a time who can get 100, I won. And I was like, that was the light bulb. That if I could could that people are you can will yourself out of fearlessness to to outperform people that are more talented than you simply because they aren't you have

something inside you that you can control that can that can help you succeed where others fail or you can and that for me transformed the rest of my life. I don't know what you regard as the most interesting parts of your path but tell me just how unlikely it is with whatever details it is you wish to choose from your childhood, how being with a single mother who was working six and a half out of seven days a week, how unlikely it is to get to Yale and get to your dreams coaching an NFL football team from wherever it is you were.

NFL football team from wherever it is you were? Yeah. Um, it's wild to think in, in those terms. Um, yeah, I would, I would say the percentages, um, are, are, are pretty low. And I think, you know, it's interesting You have the the the two things that go on especially when you talk about your own childhood You have your experience at the time and then as you reflect

you know that are quite different a lot of times and You know, there's there's so much of who I became were results of, I don't know, solving the problems that every kid has. Those problems are monumental to me and manifest themselves in the way I just go about life in general. But like, you know, being a cool kid at school was a big deal and it didn't come easy to me. Having friends. I didn't know why at the time. I was chasing a lot of popularity in elementary school, middle school and high school. And I just remember always trying to,

you know, as I grew up and as I started figuring out some of those, those, I don't know, conundrums or those life obstacles, you know, I think I was constantly trying to changing schools from sixth grade to seventh grade, moving from Greeley to to Denver, going from a 70,000 person town to metropolitan Denver, was a big moment in my life and I spent my seventh grade year, I found a friend early, Dan Soder, who's the comedian, and we kind of hung out together and kind of navigated the waters, but I was really trying to figure out how I could.

Still not fitting in before then? Still failing a bit? Still not fitting in, not being cool, but now you've got a friend, a little lonely? Yeah, a little lonely. But then I, you know, my personality is kind of changing. I'm starting to try to be funny all the time. And at the time, I remember thinking that I'd always want to, I wouldn't ever want people to feel like they were better off if I wasn't there. So like I'd want to be, if I was invited some somewhere, I'd want to be, um, the

life of the party and add value. I can remember feeling that way and those, those types of obstacles or me being driven by that, what driven by that. Driven by that. But inauthentically, right? If you're seeking popularity, it's not just by being yourself, you're seeking a reward.

Right, seeking the reward. And at the time, these were, for a person that doesn't model his personality off after anybody. That never really had someone to kind of model themselves after and you're kind of figuring out who you are and what works and you know, I just know this driving force is so that people wanna be around me.

And so those things, figuring out, figuring out how to do that and being able to be successful in that scope, with that vision, with that objective for her to belong and doing that, you know, trial and error. And, you know, when you're young, your world is know when you're when a little bit you're saying didn't have someone to model myself after but you're not sinking into the idea that dad wasn't around you're just saying all I wanted was popularity because it would allow me to fit some place and you know the funniest I've had I had people always ask me about dad not

being around and how that affected me and if you would have asked me I would with a hundred percent conviction told you it didn't matter when I was young. Only you know, I kind of, I kind of tie this, this desire to belong and, and, and I know chasing people wanting me around, you know, in hindsight, as I've been older, it probably was driven from, you know, that lack of acceptance that you experience when you're void of a parent's on their own choosing in your mind. You know what I mean?

So, Yeah, you blame yourself for it and you question your worth. Like, did I run them off, especially during formative years like that when you don't know anything about, you know, you want to be an NFL head coach, but you don't know how other things are going to impact you. Well, the reason I bring up popularity, like the reason I bring that up is because it was something that was ever present from, you know, I want to say when I moved to Denver in seventh grade on and at no time did I have

any, could I reason with why that was the case. Maybe because my mom said I was cool when I was little. But, um, and, and may have been overcompensating too, to just like, she was probably afraid, just generally afraid. And so let me help boost him as much as I can, even if I have to feign strength. Right. But it wasn't, but I've since attached all those things, um, to kind of my you know I don't think it's ironic that there's things that a team sport provides being a part of a team being a part of the you know you know outside my grandparents on my mom's side it wasn't really close

with a lot of my family so I had a very very small family and I was you know trying to embody you know as a as a head coach you get to kind of right the wrongs so to speak you to be the dad of a team you to right the wrongs of. You know, I didn't have a dad in my life that was someone that I could call dad, but I sure could be a great dad. And I think there's some ties to my professional ambition, team, subsequently, a whole list, there's a whole list, a laundry list of things that I've since been able to kind of reason where this drive, where this focus, this obsession that I've had my whole life, where that came about. about and it starts and stops with you know the most the most foundational elementary pillars to that coincide to who we are those those nuclear

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That's the powerful backing of American Express. Visit amex.ca slash ymx. Benefits vary by card, terms apply. It's a super unusual way that you coach. Are you an empath? Like if you, I don't know whether there's a clinical diagnosis for this, but are you an empath? Yeah, I've been, um, I've been, uh, an anointed as such by, um, people in, in the energy field and I've been convinced kind of

as such. I kind of, I kind of, you know, it it's funny I had heard that heard that phrase you know I was kind of I'm typically an open-minded person but I wasn't I didn't deep dive into the world of energy and then once you know there's an esthetician that my wife was working with that met with me when I was in California. I kind of took advantage of the, I try to take advantage of the world that's around me. And in California, there's a lot of energy talk.

And you know, she was overtaken by like my presence in the, in the room. Um, and you know, start talking to me, kind of, kind of opened my eyes to something that, um, is a part of me. I guess I would be, it'd be appropriate to describe me as an empath of all the energy that I'm absorbing and giving out on a daily basis. You are energetically trying to help people find a better path to their optimal success and the things they want through servitude and you're energetically trying to connect with them in ways that are, I mean, I don't, at the height of what you do for a living, I don't know if it can feel spiritual,

but in there somewhere would be purpose. Very much, very, very much does. Uh, I am drowning in purpose. Um, drowning has negative competition. Not like I'm like if purpose is oxygen, it is breathing through me on a daily basis. Um, this is how this studio was built. You have to be the best listener that I've ever encountered. Oh, thank you.

The stuff you just shot back at me. Well, I'm super curious about the roots of who you are because I haven't seen a team coach this way. And I haven't seen, I haven't heard a coach talk this way because it's it's pushing down of feelings it's repressing of feeling it's covering up feelings it's toughing through your feelings your feelings don't matter and you're sitting here saying no I kind of care that my linebacker likes music and

yeah I think to be your best self, you have to be yourself. I really, and I really believe that. I think there's different... To truly maximize each individual, you know, how silly does it... Like this blows my mind when you start talking about this psychology of performance and you start to talk about you know how you you know how great people do anything great and where they put their mind and what they're focused on in a professional setting if I'm creating an environment where people are spending time trying to guess as to the way I want them to present themselves to me. That's the orchestration of not being in a place you can't be yourself.

A lot of wasted energy too. And that blows my mind, the short circuits about how much opportunity costs that is when you're doing one thing and not doing another. And when you're trying to... It's really inefficient. It's crazy. And we're talking about being able to focus

on certain being focused, to be able to focus on certain being focused to be able to focus on the right things and to hear the here coaching in general and to be able to focus on what you need to do to ensure that your dream of your life can be I don't know, fulfilled. Oh, by the way, spend half your time trying to figure out the way I want you to act. No, it's, I can't imagine. And that's impossible.

Well, I just can't imagine how someone like Odell Beckham, for example, who has been punished for his authenticity in an assortment of ways publicly, how he arrives at your doorstep and then your recruiting pitch to him on like, no, no, no, we're going to work to help you here so that we maximize the best you, because I understand how hard it is to do what you do

through all of the injuries and everything. How hard it is to be as great as you've been. No, and so you go into the avenue of scars and that's what that fits within. Like, how long does it take someone to get over scars that they have? You know, you're conditioned to experience, you go to a football meeting and you have a certain mindset. A lot of these guys that have had unbelievable success have had it with coaches

that were favorable to the journey and without them and all in between. And for me when players get into our building, like, you know, I think our coaching staff and the whole building does a great job of this, but like understanding that they're carrying the weight of all those scars, those expectations, those that you think is true, and then oh by the way it's not this this way here for a specific reason. There's a lot of resistance, a lot of like is this a setup? They don't trust it. This is a nurturing environment. This is football as a nurturing environment. Like is football as a nurturing environment, environment, like you're trying, you're not, you're not, uh, coddling them.

There are expectations involved, but the fact that you care about their feelings at all, I think is unusual. I don't think coaches are supposed to care about Eric's bolster says all the time that I'm not there. It's not, I don't care whether they like me or not.

That's not the job. No, and, and it it's and it's more for them Let's say that we have the gift of the best things That a player could hear If you're playing professional football we have these we have these pieces of gold that are coaching points. If players understand that gold and understand your intention out where your

intent lies, they're going to listen, allow us to give them that gold that much faster and with that much more conviction and clarity. I think if you had... to me I want to take out all of the unnecessary, quite literally bullshit that is in... that people have accumulated through their journeys to get there and just let's make it about I can help you with these things, listen to what those things, focus on those things, focus on nothing else, and then watch your game improve. And though to me, that's more of the way of the modern day athlete

that has more individual training, that has more club exposure, that has more club exposure, that has more knowledge of and more scope of what should be done. Let's show them that we can give them the best tools. You're basically saying I'll meet you where you are, you don't have to come over here trying to guess where, where I am. And I mean, the modern day player also has something that I don't think anybody is bringing any sort of sensitivity towards. And that's uncharted, uncharted, um, micro management of their careers by,

micromanagement of their careers by, you know, the social media and how that one person's voice or one person's negative take on who you are and what you're doing, how they can spiral people, now magnify it by 50 million. There is so much noise that is just like the noise that I had when I was a third grader and I recognized that Stephanie Call was better than me, but I had the the tools to to block out the noise. That's what you're trying to give them in a professional football setting is a place that all those things are true in terms of how I try to be a human being for them to understand where I'm coming from to best engender a teacher-student relationship, but also, it's also very demanding. If you ask any of our veteran players about how we practice, I'd put, you know, our, I mean, we practice like it's a game at all times,

as best we can within the rules of the CBA. So. I didn't accuse you of being soft. No one out here is't saying that you guys aren't working hard. But that's why people don't do it. People don't do it because they misconstrue individual relationships and investing in people

as a sort of softness. We're just trying to find a different level of coach to player relationship that can access deeper dives and fuller commitment than the other places can. It's less that you were accusing and more like by nature I always have to stipulate that because it does Of just preconceived notions of what it is that let's just have a human being relationship but what if you had an asset in the world what if you're a five-star athlete and from the age 16 and on you've been exploited by every person that knows you and

and on you've been exploited by every person that knows you and you make millions of dollars now and so you have even fewer people that give a shit about your exit your experience but that is real what if you have a what do you have a teammate in that process what can that take your game your your life, all that, you know? Can you explain to me the extremes of your obsession when you say obsessed? Like how often is it actually our plays creeping into your sleep? Like what are some of the examples you can give people to say you don't understand how obsessed I am with all of this. Well, I have to there's also Something I recognize that's balance that You do have to balance your life out and that's a hundred percent what

My wife and daughter do for me. And so I have to personally create periods of time where I refuse to think about anything football. Being present with your family and you can't be consumed by something else. The love at home will call you on it. And I can't. So in those times, I can't watch documentaries. Okay. That's a whole other caveat.

It's a distraction. Well, because it will get me back to a professional thought. And I'm just... So family time is 100% family time as ordered by you and the family is best for you and your life. And I try to hold...

You know, there's a lot of guilt that comes into being obsessed professionally when you're so motivated by having a family and being a father to my daughter, Ayla. So doing that, I can cut out all the family time and I can be myself, which is myself is always thinking about how I can grab something outside the box and apply it to what I'm doing professionally, which is that I get the honor to serve the Miami Dolphins organization as the head coach and serve the fan base and all that stuff.

If it's not family time, it doesn't go away. Plays on numerous occasions. I'll wake up at midnight and I'll utilize my iPhone notes app and write the most random things that has one catchphrase that will get me back to that point. What has Katie, your wife, taught you about love? She's taught me how to love someone that loves you. You know, you don't... She really taught me what it was like to be loved. You know, everybody...

You feel the love of nuclear family, of things that you sign up for. You feel what you think is to be loved when you're in relationships as you go in your life. then there's, you know, I didn't realize what it was like to be loved until it felt unconditional, which, you know, there needed to be some adversity for that opportunity to present itself. And, you know, I've talked about it a bunch, but, you know, the, some of the, seeing the, the, having my wife look at me and love me after, you know, failure, um, a disappointment or whatever, you know, there's been much written about when I got sober, that was probably the last time that I've really let her down.

Um, but feeling someone love you unconditionally and actually love, love you for, um, your successes and failures. Uh, that has taught me how to love in life, not just her, but just everyone, just people in general to not look at your actions as conditional based upon other people's actions and how to give the love that I mean, listen listen I'm in the midst of living a dream that I've had since I can remember and there's a lot of gratitude that comes with that and where do you where do you pour that into will you pour that into the love that you have for the the world that exists that can put you in

this position and then you pour it out into people even if it doesn't, they're not going to give it to you back. You know, those types of life lessons. I think the actions that I take on a on a day-to-day basis, there's a lot of love that I exude when I do that. And I didn't understand that until we got deep into my wife and I's relationship, not just on the front end, but you know, you go through things that people go through.

I want to talk about your sobriety, but she's described the job as lonely and anxious because of your job. So it's your dream and she's supporting your dream, but it takes her husband away, mentally away. And yes, you've got your errands and your honeydew list but it takes you away your dream takes you away it really does she was blown away yeah I just I'm three days into you know our one summer break where I get away from work as a head coach after the season.

You know, you're dealing with a lot of things that has to do with people's jobs moving forward, whether that's within the organization as a player or as a coach or as a player. And she was like jaw dropped the other night. Think Thursday night, the day of my last, the last day of work before at the very front end of our break. And I was just going to do levels playing with some Paw Patrol toys. And she was like,

where'd you find this energy where oh it's work huh and you know the until that moment where I can file work away you know I can't I can't even manifest myself as a father the to the degree that I can with 100% on them. You know, it is all encompassing. She even brought light to that when she was digesting my out of control new dad behavior. You know, that's that dad away from work for a little while you can concentrate without the daily stresses. I mean it's just a perpetual responsibility energy pull. There's always a problem to fix. Yeah like that's the job. The job is not

to avoid problems. Yeah you're talking about 150 people directly. It's to find them and fix them. Yeah and that that's what your role is. I thought I knew that. I'd been given such a grand tutorial by being Kyle Shanahan's right hand man for so long and watching him do it and then watch all my peers get the jobs and yeah, I had a very concrete very Great scope of what the job what job is but until you're in it, you don't Those things you don't really understand quite literally your no

problems can't dictate your energy. You're, you're, you're, otherwise you will have no energy. It's whack-a-mole. It's there will always be more problems. Who are, who are people going to go to if they don't go to you for problems? You are the solution finder.

So it, it is ever present for that as well because you're, you know, the second that good things are happening, it's hilarious. Every time that, you know, my wife will let me know that things are pretty positive, just in the media scape. Like my knee-jerk reaction is, all right, where's the problem coming? Something bad's going to happen.

There's problems all the time. And I think where I'm at, you know, in this being my third year, it's really cool to have an idea on job of what it is to be successful at it and to be able to lean into those things that you think you're capable of being. It's hard to bring energy, positive energy to people all the time when people are constantly bringing you negative things but if you know I never got into this field trying to be like hopefully I can

be a head coach or you know my ambitions are much grander you know I want to be one of them multiple Super Bowl trophies and and ultimately that results in me being able to be in a gold jacket where those things are grand okay well I better be good at handling problems all right I'm going to continue to get better at being being the guy that people both shovel problems towards but then expect positive energy pushed towards them. And I'm capable of doing that because there's a, I've got better at assembling people around me and the people that have been around me on top of some of the added individuals within the organization were able to facilitate

that because I am definitely a product of the cumulative work of many many individuals and it is tricky but mom and Ayla they definitely notice when it's a hundred percent all of my problems are that bedtime is too early and we need to be able to watch more movies and not play as much or do the math arithmetic that dad's bestowing upon. I can't imagine what the last three years have been like for you because those are two seismic life events to arrive at your dreams and also after tribulation finally being able to welcome your daughter into the world. Right. No. It is, it was funny because the, you know, I had finally earned the opportunity to, you

know, be a big part of what we did in San Francisco from a coaching perspective and, you know, the players that I was able to touch and the responsibility given to me from gameplay and all that stuff and We were the Sun the Saturday before he left to Miami For the for the Super Bowl a week um, a week before that, that Superbowl that, um, was, uh, uh, uh, a paramount implications to my entire career. That's when we found out that, um, we were pregnant, uh, or that Katie was pregnant.

I was not pregnant. You were adjacent. You were adjacent to the proceedings. Yeah. was not praying. You were adjacent, you were adjacent to the proceedings. And you know I think it would be, you're chasing things for so long and they're both, they could be considered overwhelming responsibilities. For me, they're the greatest gifts that I've ever been given all at once. And fortunately I've been preparing, um, who I am as a, as a man to be a father, my, my whole life and, um, who I am as a professional to be a head coach. So I, you

know, it came all at once in terms of gigantic things within my life but, you know, I felt like I'd been working tirelessly to be ready for it. You know, so it's, yeah, it's definitely unique. But, you know, I think I'm also looking at it like that I'm very fortunate that I feel like I'm capable to execute both jobs at a high level. So you know what I, because for me, you know, in both circumstances there's no going back that you don't get second chances. And the last thing I want to do is live in regret in either one.

So the. I love the idea of fatherhood as a job. I have a job. I perform at a high level like coaching that you're giving yourself good grades on on fatherhood because you're making sure to be present. And I don't know what you're taking from your own childhood that you had that you're applying here and that you didn't have that you're making sure to apply here? Well I you know I think like most people you work hard at identifying what your parents do do well to replicate that and

then it's very easy to find the things that you were without as motivating factors to to parent I get you know the The I had so many things to For me I was spending my whole childhood in the positive in the optimistic world that my mom created and that is so powerful just in the optimistic world that my mom created. And that is so powerful just in the journey of life. She conjured the positive, right? It's not necessarily that it was that positive.

She was just bringing it to life verbally with and in her daily actions. Right, which, and for me in, in retro, retrospect, that is a prime example of you can say, you can, you can spin anything into what you want it to be. Um, our lights were turned off. Um, we didn't have barely any money. Um, I, I, you know, we were, I was at home from first, you know, there's large stretch of stretches of time where I'd be home to, um, fend for myself when, you know, can afford childcare and that, that, that space between I need to work this much and but I can put you in child care for this long you know the there is dad wasn't around we were

we didn't have much and I had no idea because of what she chose to focus on. And I remember getting cool shoes when I got straight A's on my report card. I didn't know that she had to save up to do that. You know, so I think overall the, that life lesson was implied with how, what she chose to focus on because I started realizing some of the hurdles that I'd overcome that I didn't know were hurdles. You know, when I was in my late teenage years kind of figuring all this stuff out. That is something that I think Katie and I, we talked at length about, you know, when we had plenty of time

to really plan for our child considering, we kind of thought it was a dream lost over five years since we started. And then by that that time we were so elated to have this miracle that we were ultra positive when she when she was pregnant there wasn't like we didn't get into one fight you know trying to picture trying to create something that you know we had a vision for that you know, trying to picture, trying to create something that, you know, we had a vision for that, you know, I had no experience in how proper parental relationships should, should, should really be portrayed to, to a child. She had a little more knowledge and history. She'd,

you know, I love her parents and she had a great childhood, but we were able to apply that positivity from the second that she was in her stomach. Those things I think are super important. This child will be surrounded by love, a united love. From the moment it's conceived, the energy around this child will be a positive, warm, loving one. And to me, the one thing that I've observed is like, everybody, you have no idea the consequences of any sort of actions and, you know, but there's one thing that I've noticed as kind of like a litmus test on whether or not parents have done their job

or not and me it being non-negotiable that I write the wrongs that I'd experienced You know, I I just wanted our daughter to know that Unconditionally she is the most important thing in the world to two people and I think if You're able to me that gave me a fighting chance in the world because I had won But that idea that you are the the most important thing to someone beyond consequence and Beyond condition

that gives you the ability to fight gives you the ability to fight through your journey of life and to not give in to the world that does a great job of trying to break you down. You mentioned your sobriety. You've been sober since 2016. What were you, I've read you say I was running away from problems, but that's where you left it. What were you running away from? Well, so there's this weird part of me that was like, there's a lot of things that I didn't want to acknowledge based upon, you know, that when you come from nothing,

being ungrateful is like really off-putting. And I was so grateful to be in the NFL, but then I wasn't still... there was things that were bothering me that I didn't want to with my career with with where I was you know whether it was very minuscule or or monumental I just didn't I'd been passed up the opportunities weren't really there and it but then at the same, I was still a coach in the National Football League. I should be happy if it's taking longer than it should for me to ascend in the profession. Who cares? And not allowing myself to even think about anything negative. Instead let me just

forget about anything negative. Not understanding the process of everything doesn't always have to be positive, but it's a positive experience jumping in and living in to your problems. Because because avoid I was avoiding all problems and that's not the sauce that's never that's not plausible nor is that realistic nor is it You have to have problems to have well, it's not healing either avoidances and healing. So it was it was much of that and Realizing that you you, the second that you started to get a little tipsy then none of those problems existed anymore and then I'll figure out the issues

later. Those types of things, you know, I needed that next step of maturation of understanding how to be a Positive how to how to still maintain my positivity towards life while acknowledging the the things that Can and should bring it down

Well, how does this one work though? So are you sad because you're wildly ambitious and not arriving at the things that you want to arrive at? Or are you also just depressed or things are making you feel depressed and now you're throwing lighter fluid or the depressant of alcohol all over them because you're not totally aware of whether it's the job that's costing the sadness or whether it's just sadness. That's, I think it's the greater fear of what do I have to do to be, like for me, the moment that, the professional moment

that was bringing me down was also a professional triumph, so to speak. that if you put me next to all the people that I grew up with and you know that's I have a lot to feel great about not being able to figure out why I was down was scary. It's scary when you're like, can I be happy? And I think, you know, that it kind of perpetuates on itself and becomes a bigger thing when in reality, you know, I think it was just such an eye-opener and a relief that, hey, two things can coexist. You can be overall very grateful for your life and simultaneously be unhappy with certain things about your life. Just that was a huge epiphany

for me because I was such an extreme person and thinking that it was all all one thing or the other that had been you know how I'd and and realistically I kind of looked back and all my time you know went all the way till probably my freshman year of college I've been kind of in a pattern handling things that would come my direction that I didn't didn't want to be a part of the equation didn't want to handle. I just kind of dive into Diving in I guess I would be presently getting intoxicated to party out the problems and then I'd have a good time and and find

value and in that and You know get never address anything that was kind of weighing on me. Then you know, my extreme personality, once I found the better way of the world, which was not running from problems but hitting them head on, then I kind of became addicted to that. Do you remember the details on how you identified it as a dependency? Because I imagine you didn't think a day that would go by that I wouldn't have at least a couple beers I kind of knew that that was a problem and then I kind of just kept it to myself, ignored the fact that I deep down knew that I had a problem. And then when the problem surfaced, I couldn't hide it anymore, and it was in front of my professional world.

And I had to come to grips with it. I it forced me kind of to figure out okay well is this and you know I need a deep dive into what is going on because I'm sabotaging myself you were late right you you were later you were like oh because you were late those were parts of the journey I fixed I was never late again once I once I had a career hiccup with the timeliness of it. But then it was people catching that I had alcohol in the office and was drinking on nights that no one would be drinking. It was that. It was like really finding my zest, that zest for life that I couldn't find because I was

I was ignoring what was bringing me down and it wasn't like one thing it was how you handled all problems All the those things that zest I would find With alcohol and then I had to kind of come to grips with okay what am I doing and why am I doing that and originally I I had a feeling that I wasn't addicted to alcohol itself I was addicted to the results of it. And so I just deep dove into problems, got such a I don't know, so much weight was taken off my shoulders and you know saying that I

knew early probably in the first week week, that I could not drink again like I told my wife I wouldn't. Because it was, oh, I just need to retool how I approach life. And not just the good stuff. The more meaningful stuff, the stuff that you have to get over, the stuff that you have to... having a problem. That quite literally, three weeks after I got sober, I had a new problem. I was passed over again for the position coach job in Atlanta to work with Julio Jones the year we went to the Super Bowl.

And... that it was an immediate, immediate example of me being able to manifest this new way to look at things. And sure enough, there was a couple career, there was a couple things that I was able to bring to the team's table on how we teach certain things and kind of had a instituted a yak tape that offseason that we really leaned into and kind of an orchestration how to coach it. Found all these professional like new levels of success within the profession, even though I didn't get the job by the formula that I was kind of already laying out,

all the epiphanies that had hit me. It was one of those moments that you really have to look yourself in the eye and figure out what do you wanna be? And I had to talk to my five-year-old self and not do wrong by him. And everything that I'd worked for, it was very therapeutic, very deep dive, and it's been something I'm really proud of just because I understand how it could have gone a different

way for sure. You need the results obviously but it sounds like confidence is a real thing for you. You learn to believe in yourself, you've learned to do it your way, you've learned to be authentically yourself because it's the easiest thing to be consistently dated. Well it also helps me bridge the gap of, there's also the point that you brought up early, which was like, there's only so much you can control. So much of what I do now, acknowledging things that are difficult and doing things the right way, and that's how I keep score. difficult in doing things the right way and

That's how I keep score and Certain things that I understand more than ever why people aren't themselves the risk inherently that there is towards that why people You know some of the things that I choose to very intentionally do things in a different manner than I've ever observed. That's because I know them to be right and I know why people don't go outside their comfort zone. I know why people don't lean in to their own personality. And I do recognize that I've been gifted a platform where hopefully I can encourage more people to do. What a huge wisdom to have.

Like, forgive me for interrupting you, but to be resolute in your conviction of I'm doing this the right way, I mean. Well, and it's very, you're doing it for all the right way. I mean that well and and it's very you're doing it for all the right the correct reasons. Understanding all the implications as best you can and that is so much and there's times that the result won't mirror and you have to be okay with that. It's gotta be processed, not result.

I mean, your players can get injured. Like, come on, you're playing, it's a violent sport and a bunch of, and your whole defense can be out when you're headed to Kansas city and come on. A lot of things can happen. And then on top of that, it doesn't. So much of, I doesn't so much of, I've realized so much of my job is everyone else doing their job and who those people are and identifying

really, really good human beings that I think, you know, I'm so proud of the coaching staff that we have, um, in 2024. Because, and so proud of the organization where it's at all of these things. I've learned on the job of you want to talk about humility. I'm only as good as everybody I work with. And across the board. You know, I think, I think there's a bunch of people in place that really take advantage of the opportunity they have working with me and make me right for, you know, how I

delegate and how I try to empower and all those things. You have to, they have to see the reasons. Really you just have a bunch of people living out your hopes and dreams pressing forth what you believe to be the best thing to do and being able to live with that for the rest of your life. You know this is something I've built up. This has been the life dream, soul focus of my entire existence. You don't want regrets. I appreciate your time.

I appreciate your vulnerability. And I will tell you again that I appreciate your way of being. You've given us a lot of time. So I will just get you out of here in a couple of rapid fire questions. Can you tell me please about your senior thesis at Yale? Okay, senior thesis was the maturation of the National Football League in the 1960s.

So I did a, it had to be primary source, Yale is a history major. One of your course credits is a year long independent topic, a year long deep dive, primary source thesis on whatever topic you're passionate about for me. Since I knew I was going to be into coaching, I wanted it to be time well spent and I spent time you know looking at primary source articles and the Beinecke library covering the National Football League

from like 19 the early 1950s all the way through the early 1970s and found out so much what I already thought I knew. One of the biggest things was to learn all the positive things that were occurring by work of Al Davis in the 60s. I was a Denver Bronco fan, so I just knew the Raiders and I just hated the Raiders. You'd appreciate Al Davis's renegade spirit of doing it different Well, but then how the Super Bowl comes about and then from the Super Bowl Just where the state of the National Football League was and then the television

writes that kind of you know, all of a sudden 19 1958 rights that kind of you know all of a sudden 1958 college football is king 1970 the National Football League is king to find out the nuts and bolts behind all that it was a really cool process. Tell me about Smokey Hill High School what from your high school experience is something that is shaping you today? That is the adult you still carries around from there? The Smokey Hill High School, you know, it was a, it's probably in the, at the time, the Centennial School District, or the Cherokees School District, I should say, was probably the top of the public schools, and Smoke Hill was within that.

And they had so much access to all the international baccalaureate programs, all the AP programs, the opportunities, that even though I was, you know, nobody was expecting big things coming from me, and it's not like anybody championed me during my process, but I was only able to position myself in the world the way I was because of the access of all the opportunities and How To me the That comes across in my teaching on a daily basis and in trying to gain the listening of a player because trying to gain the listening of a player because that I'm trying to give them the

opportunity to learn something and maybe there's walls or barriers between us but if I can go that extra length to give him the opportunity to access those those coaching points that I that my expertise has found very valuable that can allow him the opportunity to take advantage of his I mean it's ever-present the idea of opportunities and and that being an obligation not an obligation but that being something paramount to to people's successes and I don't know where I'd be if I didn't have access to those programs and wouldn't be able to compete on a national level in terms of a student trying to get

acceptance into a university. I would have had no shot. So that, Smokey Hill, great job with your AP program. Appreciate it. And I'm told from a dolphin source deep in the organization that there is a love story at the center of how it is that you got the Denver Broncos start. How you got your first your first chance in football. Now 18 years in football but it started where? Okay so obsessiveness. I

think this was third grade too. You know, I was obsessed about being a head coach. I was obsessed about beating Stephanie Collin math, right? Again Stephanie name dropped a third time. And then I was obsessed with in the summer the Denver Broncos, their training camp was at University of Northern Colorado which is in Greeley. 10 minute 15 minute bike ride from my house. In the summers instead of having childcare the Denver Broncos practice would be my childcare. I'd get up at 7 in the morning ride my bike there and get autographs. Well in the third grade, I was like a box of cards, sorted by numerical order,

and multiples of each player. And I'd gotten Robert Del Pino, number 39, earlier in the day, on one particular day where I was getting autographs. Saw him later in the day, and I was wearing a Charlotte Hornet's fitted hat that was super loud. It was the days of Lonzo Morning and grandma Larry Johnson. So it was a super loud color hat so I took the hat off, put it on a wall, ran and got the autograph so

he wouldn't recognize me so I could get a second autograph because I was a greedy man. That's good work by you though. Got the autograph, came back, hat wasn't there, started crying. First Denver Bronco employee that came out of Lawrence Hall, which is where they stayed, grabbed him, asked him to look in the lost and found. He went unsuccessfully, returned. No hat, took down information. Two days later I saw the guy at Bron, Bronco camp again.

Brings me inside, gives me a hat with a price tag on it. He went out and bought me a hat. He was the assistant video director for the Broncos. I introduced him to my mother that night because my mom was like, who's this stranger? Or the next day because my mom was like, who's this stranger buying you things? Which at the time I was like, what? Now I'm like, who's this stranger buying you things? Which at the time I was like, what? Now I'm like, yes, I'd be very inquisitive myself. So introduced them the next day, they started dating, they got married, that's how I moved to Denver. And I became a ball boy because I was a video guys,

stepchild. Right, you fast forwarded the end part of that story though. You really rushed through the end of it and then they got married. I got my hat back, I stopped crying and they got married. Yeah, because clearly I told them to. So many more details on the hat than the love. But I just asked you for the love story and you're told it. I can see the hat I can see the hat the love story you just fast-forwarded. The love story was that uh, um. It's okay. It's okay. You don't have to do it. It's okay. I just went into I guess Pat Vlogs dog I just went into, I guess, Pat Vlog's dog, I just went into my mode of telling that story. I've told it many times. But the love was,

the love part of that story is my mom loved the hat. No. Um, they dated for a while. We can leave it alone. You don't have to keep giving me details. I thought I was going to be able to get you to cry on A-Law. I thought there was going to be something there, but I failed.

I have failed here, and now I know why. It's because you're just fast-forwarding to the details that are emotional for you. No, I mean, there is a lot to cover. We have a lot of interesting stuff to talk about, so it's not of your failure that we didn't cry. Um, uh, thank you. I appreciate you holding me to your bosom there and nurturing me on that one.

Uh, I found your sport to be very primitive when it comes to the leadership. And so that you've learned that you've learned, uh, to reach a new generation of player and that you find yourself as an ally instead of a taskmaster. It's nice to see someone treating the labor humanely. Wow, that was very complimentary and I am without words. Well, thank you though. That's probably why I have a firm professional appreciation for your show and you as a human

being. That's why I'm here. Thank you sir. And I'm building sandcastles. We wore you out. You need to get back to your to your wife and daughter. You've spent enough time here. I appreciate the opportunity. Thank you. Likewise. Yep.

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