The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - South Beach Sessions: The Best Of Highly Questionable

Episode Date: March 15, 2024

"Highly Questionable" was the introduction to so many of your favorite personalities but the behind-the-scenes dynamics and mechanics of how it all came to be was never revealed like this before. In this "Best of South Beach Sessions: Highly Questionable," you'll hear from Mina Kimes on the pressure of what it was like to join Dan and Papi before really "getting the show" and what led Pablo Torre to wanting to team up with Dan yet again after HQ. Katie Nolan opens up about all of the challenges she was facing while working on the show... and the rockiness of what happened afterwards. Then, Israel "Izzy" Gutierrez talks about being in the middle of the father-son relationship between Dan and Papi and the secret inner workings to some of the show's best moments. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi there, my name is Alameen Abdelmahmoud. I am the host of the CBC podcast, Commotion. You need to drop by, okay, because that's where we talk about all things pop culture. We talk about what people are watching, what people are listening to, like how the Smiths got on a Trump rally playlist, or how Elmo became the internet's therapist, or how DadTV got so darn popular. Commotion with Alameen Abou Mahmoud. Available now on Spotify. This episode is brought to you by Secret.

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I don't want to be doing something else. And it's a different kind of drive and ambition. But I have found that it still causes some confusion with people. Because I think in our industry, most ambition seems to be more specific and it tends to be more about a different platform or a different stage or a different whatever. But this is one of the reasons that I say uncomfortably that I'm proud of you because you have under duress, under unpleasant circumstances, you've found and derived both real strength and real confidence and

It wasn't easy to come by like it was hard You had to earn it you had to earn it with I say all the time What you and others taught me on highly questionable and I didn't realize it until you guys were doing highly questionable with me And you'd be in the makeup chair, you know preparing and anxious 45 minutes beforehand and I'd stumble onto the set with, you know, preparing an anxious 45 minutes beforehand and I'd stumble onto the set with mac and cheese and my beard and get things wrong and had the comfort of getting things wrong

and you went in, novice, scared, anxious, is like, I can't get a thing wrong because if I get a thing wrong on television, the internet is going to devour me and I'm sitting there next to you and I'm like, getting things wrong all the time and it's allowed. Some of that is true obviously it's not just a gender thing if you're new you're judged more harshly. I mean I can't remember who told me this somebody used to be an early in my

career said you know I talked to them I was asking about kind of feedback and criticism and they're like at some point people just get used to you. It's true. If you're just on TV a long time, people get used to you and the criticism to some degree subsides. So I think certainly some of it is being an outsider and looking different and that arousing just all kinds of feelings in people, not only negative ones, but some of it also, when you're new, people are, they're more likely to judge harshly. And then that was true. But I also think, Dan, like in retrospect, I could have gotten stuff wrong and I would have been fine.

Like I, you know, I could have made more mistakes and been looser earlier in my career. Oh, but I would have survived. But this is why But this is why I knew that you were going to be good at this because I'm like, oh wow, her standard is higher than the people judging her. Her own standard for, like you wouldn't allow yourself to make a mistake. You were too prepared to look like a fool. I used to feel really bad when I felt like I had bad shows. You saw that sometimes, yeah. I was really hard on myself. But you were also like super meticulous about how it is

that you were prepared to not have, like I wanted a loose environment. I wanted everyone to be free and easy, be your maximum self, we'll figure it out over time, but you didn't have that comfort at the beginning. You were still trying to prove something and that's changed some of it is with time Obviously and confidence and riding the bike a thousand times some of it has changed with like a re Prioritization of things in my own personal life where the stakes of

life where the stakes of the big takeaway from me this whole thing is gonna be meet a guy it's not that ambitious not that driven doesn't really care anymore no um the stakes of the things that are important to me have really changed and the funny thing is I find in our job like it's not that you know my work isn't as important to me and I don't feel like I have to be, I still prepare like crazy, but I don't beat myself up the same way because it's just, other things have kind of supplanted that,

I guess. Do you want to discuss what they are? Is it just growing up, adulthood, things becoming more important, realizing that this is a silly thing we do and treating it with the utmost importance when you're growing or lacking confidence. It's too early for a tear to shed. Okay well wait no we'll get to it. This is well they're pushing me they're pushing me to make this an environment

where where I receive more it's why we're doing these recently with the people in the industry that I'm closest to. And I sense your discomfort with all of this praise and I recognize it. Can I ask you, when you look back at those highly questionable days near the end, I know you're joking about rolling in, but totally, obviously that's not true.

But were you happy with how you your how you felt about doing it I guess? What are you asking me? Are you asking me the evolution of the show over eight years? Like at the end I was pretty fried for a number of different reasons that didn't have anything to do with the people I was working with. I guess I mean about like caring, because the kind of we were talking about is like the concept of like really caring about your work and what that means and how you care. And I did care so much, right? And I felt like it was good.

I was really proud of it. I was really proud of those shows and whatnot. But yeah, I do remember that you were pretty burnt out at the end and I always felt bad about that. I was burnt out though not for reasons that had anything to do with the actual doing of the show. I was hugely proud of the fact that we had gotten to a place where specifically you me and Pablo could get up there and do it in 25 minutes and snort laughing because we had a facility and a comfort around each other that made for entertaining television that I knew, okay, that's good.

I'm done with it. It didn't hurt. Hey, look, I can get fulfillment without something hurting. It can feel good. It doesn't have to be a process that's a little bit labor. But that's just surviving. You're just like, okay, I can survive this. It's going to be 20 minutes and No, but it's gonna be 25 minutes of laughter It's gonna be 25 minutes of enjoying people's company and having it be good Yeah, like I'm being able I don't know if you have the feeling that with the stuff that you do It has to hurt in order for it to be good

but I've been striving all my life to get the fulfillment of of in order for it to be good, but I've been striving all my life to get the fulfillment of the feel good without it having to hurt, make it easier, have it come easier so that I don't have to suffer it the way that you must writing, the way that I, the painstaking way that you have to do with writing

in order to get the fulfillment. That is such a, there's such a distinction between writing and doing television in that regard for me. And this is a huge part of the reason why I wanted to transition to doing television full-time from writing in the first place was writing was literally like labor. It was like so intense. It's all you think about when you're, especially with like reported features and you're just so worried and stressed all the time and it's never really done.

And then when it's done, you're happy for like 15 minutes, and then you're like, what the fuck am I gonna do next? So it's this like constant cycle of like pain, and it's never easy, and the reporting of it. Whereas TV, my hope, and I think I have kind of arrived at this place, it's like, it's just a job. You just show up, you shovel the takes, you get out, the day's over.

And early in my TV career I think I still almost looked at it a little bit more like I did as a writer where it was like, if I didn't have a good day, I was like, just obliterated emotionally. Like if I had a bad show, I was like, well that's, never gonna recover from that one. And now-

You do realize that's part of what makes you good, right? Well, but, maybe, but it's kinda gone. I mean, I still care a lot, but- No, but it's gone because you're confident. It's gone because you've gotten stronger. You're working with, look, the show that you're doing on television looks like it's huge fun. It's really fun. It's really easy and Even if it's not great, it's another day and it's over

That's that's legitimate joy. Like that's that's Mecca right there. Sometimes it is great. Sometimes I'm like goddamn that crush I said like, you know, we had this discussion. It was great I'm gonna put this out feel good about this this. And then the next show's like kind of a stinker, but it's fine. And like that's the life that I always, that I wanted with being on TV. Well, but I don't know that Mina Kimes, I don't think. I don't know that I, maybe toward the end,

we work together, but I would say that Mina, being that kind of comfortable with the experience is not something that was on highly questionable until the end. Until the end. I mean. During the pandemic, yeah, it was like very loose. The stakes did feel really low.

I mean, we were on fucking soup. And I was like, yeah, it worked, it worked. Oh, but that's what I've always aspired to. Please, they should be low. It's stupid. Everything we're doing is, it's uncommonly stupid. Like the stakes should be really low. You are a high achiever, at least in part,

because you refused to pay. Some of those final shows were like, I can't believe they aired on cable television. Do you know what you did with your Ivy League education? That that's what we were doing at the end That's what we were doing the worst thing we did There were no sports going on for a couple of months We were in our apartments just talking because 20 minutes of space had to be filled

like performance art Art that arts doing a lot of work there performance art. Art is that arts doing a lot of work there. You deflected though, you deflected on is my praise making you uncomfortable? No, no, no. I guess it sounds like you're saying I seem different. It's not just stronger. It's not even different. It's just you've gotten a facility with what we do. I watch you on television, and I see a person who can spar with anybody, who can get along with anybody, who could work with anybody, who can fit into any environment, and it's rare, because you know how much vanity

and insecurity there is in this business and how people get threatened when someone's becoming a star around them. Yeah, I mean, I think a few things have happened with me. A lot of it is just doing it so much. Most, for the most part, I work with people I really like, which is a lesson I learned from you, honestly, the importance of just making sure at alt. Because I think if I hadn't

landed with the people that I'm with in different capacities on ESPN, I probably wouldn't feel as good about the work. You know, it's the number one thing for me. It's not fun to do a television with people you don't like. You know that? So that was a big thing. I think I've gotten a lot better, although sometimes I still fail at filtering what I allow into my brain, which is something I've talked about on your show. I've been like open about it. I mean, it's like the number one thing people ask me about

is like, what's it like to be on? That's literally my, the number one thing I'm known for is being on. Like I met, I was at the combine, combine I think and I met Steve Smith Sr. He came up to me and I was like, oh my god, Steve Smith Sr. I got so many things to ask you about. He's like, meet it comes. People shit on you, but I like you. I was like, this is who I am. This is what I definitely need to shit on. But they like me, you know, that people are against the people who are shitting on me or whatever. Yeah, and then, you know, like the last couple years is just...

I don't know, like kind of like I said, like a re... Calibration of like things for me Do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do a lot has changed over the years A lot has changed over the years but one thing that hasn't, the great taste of Miller Lite. Man we was just watching Celtics vs Nuggets last night and the catalyst to the party, the vibe, the vibe changer, the mood increaser was the Miller Lite Cooler in the middle of the living room. Salute to Miller Lite man. And when you're out having a great time, oh my goodness, you want to reach for a beer that's reliable and I cannot name, think of, or even ponder a more reliable beer

than Miller Lite. Can you dig it? Times change, but you can always enjoy the great taste of Miller Lite. Hmm, tastes like Miller Time. To get Miller Lite delivered right to your door, visit MillerLite.com slash beach or you can find it pretty much anywhere that sells beer celebrate responsibly Miller Brewing Company Milwaukee Wisconsin 96 calories per 12 ounces. Yiddick! You getting in there was something that not a lot of people have done, but I could not have fathomed this moment or where we are now, going back four years, three years, through some of the conversations where at the end when I saw that I was being squeezed at ESPN and I saw that there were, Balmany had left highly questionable, so we

had seats next to my father that were available but a certain number of days and we had a whole lot of people at ESPN who were in peril because they were cutting salaries in half and so you and Sarah and Katie and and well Mina less so because Mina had opportunities early on though this was early on Dan like you're giving us an identity as like oh you're the people who do this thing oh but I'm not talking about then right I'm not talking about all of you that was weird dating on television was weird dating co-hosts on television as a construct was strange because I didn't know how to work.

We all learned how to do that together without having a natural chemistry at the start. But I'm talking about when I knew it was about to end at ESPN or that I didn't have very many days left and I was just trying to protect not just myself, but that seat next to us that would have protected a lot of salaries and a lot of careers. You were scared back then.

I recall coming back from my honeymoon and you were scared and not only scared but scared enough that 10 minutes into a conversation you informed me that you and your wife were pregnant after we covered 10 minutes of work-related stuff before that, and to imagine this from there is damn near impossible because the safety net of health insurance matters, the safety net of Disney and the protection of employers. One of the safety net of Disney and the protection of employers. One of the reasons I admire my brother's success so much

because he did it without a safety net. He did it without a shelter daddy that just protects you at every turn, selling art out of the back of his car. It's important to note in the chronology of things that when Violet is born, it is February 24th, 2020. When Violet is born, I am in the hospital room and Liz is physically giving birth and the doctor and the nurses are there and in my mind what I'm realizing

in a very out-of-body way is that oh no my my brain is not fully devoted to the birth of my child my brain is also sharing space with the fact that high noon just got cancelled and has just been announced as cancelled on the day I was in the hospital. So the imprinting, like, why did I take 10 minutes to mention that Violet was going to be a thing? It's because the entire time I was worried about what the f*** am I You're talking about the responsibility of being able to provide for that child

was something that was also in play for you. It was the two things. It was, wow, this is not this magical panacea that's going to wipe away all of my anxieties. So was it joy in the hospital room? It was fear or? It was, I would say, overwhelmingly. It was absolutely joyous, but with that real like layer, it was

concern in the costume of joy or vice versa. Like the real thing I was feeling was I cannot believe, I had the thought to myself as if I was watching a documentary about my life. I cannot believe that I'm always going to remember this moment with this thought in my head. And they were born together. My insecurity was born alongside my daughter. And I realized, Oh, this is not going to magically make me into a fully present dad because clearly I failed the test from as soon as I could possibly take it. That one I'm thinking about work while not being present for this. Like what an ass.

I'm thinking about work while not being present for this. Like what an ass. And the second thing is why, why could I not be so present? And it was because I was already concerned about how am I going to do right by, by her. It's funny you mention all of this though, because I haven't talked to you about it, nor

have I thought about it. Like your, your coming here is something that's exciting and wonderful and I'm, I just feel thrilled that I'm able to do this with my friends in general, but I don't know why you're here. I haven't, like I do, but I don't, I have, I should know that people should know that I did not join this company because you and I were plotting hour to hour. How am I I gonna be extracted from ESPN? That's not how this happened. What happened is I, after showing up in an orca suit

and then beyond, became a super fan of this show, of your show, and I did not stop listening. And in the back of my mind was always alongside existential dread and how to provide was this notion of like in an uncertain future in which we don't know which icebergs will be remaining. I want to work with people that I love that seem to have figured something out about how this could be. I wanted to be part of your family. That was fundamentally the decision that I made was, yes, great, I can do some TV stuff, stay with ESPN, perfect.

Always love that. I don't want to minimize that. That is so important to me. It really is. But in terms of like, how am I self identifying now? I didn't need you to explain that to me because you had begun explaining that to me back in 2014. Like I didn't need you to retell me those conversations

because I heard them the first time and I did not forget. It's funny because I don't view myself. Valerie talks to me about this. Sometimes I just don't view myself with the same prism that others view me. So the idea that you or anybody else would think, well, Dan's got it figured out. It's just not a space that I live in at all. Like when you ask me what I'm confident about, that is not it. It's not that it's

it's filled with doubt either, but the idea that Dan will figure it out when the industry is changing, when the icebergs are melting, when you know ESPN is firing people and at the end at ESPN it seemed pretty obvious that People like you and me weren't gonna have a space there and that's not something I ever Imagined I thought I was gonna be working at ESPN for the remainder of the time because I didn't expect the country and To change and the company to change and the country's president to change and the company's president to change and the company to change and the country's president to change and the company's president to change. I just thought I would be there. Well, hell, I was told by the previous people there who weren't skipper. Yeah, you'll have a job here for as long, right? As you

want to have a job here. Oh, I only until this moment and the degree to which you have figured it all out. Believe me, I'm like knocking on the backdrop here, like making sure, okay, this is a solid wall. Yep, this is real. Like this is real. This microphone works. But for me, I've only felt confident in terms of like job security by working for a big company for a giant corporation somewhere sports illustrated and then ESPN.

Like, believe me, the whole notion of like what again what if you okay again the genie visits me i'm in the hospital uh violet is being born and the genie visits me and says what do you want i might have wished to work for ESPN for the rest of my life because of the security of it because it felt safe. Because I had replaced in my brain law school and that trajectory that I had like sketched out and studied. I had replaced it with this other trajectory

that I had sketched out and studied. And I've approached this like a student, man. I got to know you, I got to know Tony Kornheiser, I got to know Eric Riehom. By the way, all people who became genuine friends but understand that like this started with me trying to understand like, how can I make a life for myself

that won't embarrass the fact that my parents traveled from the furthest possible point on planet earth to come here and make this worth their sacrifice. And certainly like TV helps, the markers of fame, celebrity, money, that all helps. But for me, like what am I doing? Like, in a real way, what the is my job? What is my calling in life? What am I here to do? I realized that what you had figured out here is a lot closer to what I actually, blank piece of paper, wanted to do than it was at ESPN?

It's strange to think that we are well positioned in a totally changing media climate to be a stable and secure thing that that the thing that you think about me becomes so but not because I have things figured out but because we did a thing with my friends because I was insistent about this part of it if I'm going to build a company that allows my friends or tries to get all of my friends and family here to their dream jobs, what they have to do is make sure that we are insulated and protected. And ultimately, I view this, I mean, it's utopian, right? I don't know whether, and I've been told it's very hard to do, building a company that actually cares,

building a corporate structure that cares about its people. But we are in a very good position to be able to create that now. But the last two years have, because I'm hard on myself and because there's a lot I don't know about entrepreneurialism and next to nothing I know about startups I have not viewed failure as learning I've just sort of absorbed it as failure no I I feel like I got to come in at a time that is like it's funny Dan like I don't know how much you feel this but like I've been I I was here last week, I'm here all of this week.

The mood around your building, your new studio, your staff is one of joy. And I didn't have to suffer for the first two years the way that you all did, having to start from scratch. Well, I thought seven or eight of you were gonna come with me. Remember the best vacation you've ever taken? Make your next one even better with Get Your Guide. With Get Your Guide you can book over a hundred thousand unforgettable experiences in the U.S. and around the world.

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smiling at you, you're ugly sobbing on the floor and he's smiling because finally he gets to see the real you and he's going to love up the real you as well and you're no longer covered in shield and armor and barbed wire. But the reasons for it are because it seems like this has been a hugely stressful career time if that much of your identity is tied up in work you don't want to have that kind of uncertainty around it. Yeah what was the question? The question was what was happening in your life that led to the ugly crying right then? Oh god it was I had actually just gotten off the phone I I think it was Ashley got laid off. I think that's what it was I think you

Left Maybe it was you left. I don't remember which happened first Ashley getting laid off are you leaving but they happened very close to one another and it felt like I Was at this point where I was like, okay, but I have this and this. And then they were like, we don't have that one. And then right away we're like, and you also don't have that one. And I had our, at this point, ESPN famously reorg'd a lot.

I was always getting an email about a new reorg. We were going to, this person's now in charge of this and this person's in charge of that. And every time there was a reorg my boss like whoever was my executive changed and and everybody who had been my executive at this point when I had my breakdown was gone they had all left Connor shell was gone oh wow so you felt the lack of support Kevin Wilde was gone certainty it's it's like everyone's gone yeah Bill Wolf was gone and then Ashley gone. They'd already laid off Jay, who was our producer and third mic. Then they laid off Ashley, and then you left. And I was like, why am I still here?

I'm watching everybody get picked off. I no longer have any allies. The only people that work here are the ones I have not gotten along with work wise. The ones who like, we'll work together, but we like, I'm talking about people behind the scenes. We'll work together, but we clearly do not really like each other. And I just was like, what, for what? What is this for?

And they had made me, oh, it was right after I had gotten I had resigned I had just resigned for another year at a number that was obviously a lot lower which I knew was going to happen But I was like look I got this podcast I like and I like doing HQ and then at right after I signed they laid off Ashley and you left and that's when I was like, all right. Well, this really sucks because now I'm here for a year. I don't know what I'm doing I don't have a co-host for my podcast that they just increased us to two episodes a week. So I'm like now putting out more output, but I don't have anybody to do it

with. Um, I don't leave the house. I, uh, I, it just felt like, um, I didn't know what to do and I didn't know what anybody wanted me to even do. At least if I could get a sense of what they wanted from me, I could be like, all right I can perform this and then go do something else that I want to do, but this was just like, what do you want? What do you even want? Did you just bring me here to like stomp on my dreams to then be like learn your place accomplished and how you got here and you need to know that whether or not this company is a part of it you have that in you and can continue to do that.

And this, I mean, he said this place sucks. I don't want him being held responsible for that opinion. I don't want people coming at him for saying it sucks, but he was like that place. And then, you know, that quickly became my mantra as well. I wish you just pointed out a blind spot to me. I wish I had known this history when I called you after. That's, that was, I, I do feel like we need to have a conversation about that at some point. I regret the way that that happened. I was in a bad place when we talked. You want to have it here? We can, we can. I'm fine with it. Alright, let me give the backstory here because we haven't had it, I've apologized to you about this

profusely by text but you and I have not talked about everything that happened here. So we might as well do it now You ready? Okay. Yeah, I'm ready. So I don't know any of this and I wish I wish I had known that you had been usurped a number of different times by We don't know what the job is just come on over and we'll figure it out together trust us we'll figure it out so I don't look at all this money we're paying you how could we ever not figure it out and so after I left ESPN I wanted you to come over to metal arc with us but I did not yet know

what it would be and you say you were in a bad space I was manic I was crazed I've had nothing but success in my career I've made all of my own choices just I I don't fail I've got to go figure it out and I don't know how I'm going to figure it out and so I call you and I want to bring you over to metal arc and do stuff but I don't know exactly what Metal Arc is going to be because we're building Metal Arc and if I had known that you'd been burned at every time but I know you got to tell me exactly what it is and I'm sitting here with the passion of what do you mean? It's me, we'll figure it out.

It'll be wonderful. We're building a plane in the air. Yes, we'll build it and there will be money falling from the sky and I remember just coming on strong not knowing that you were in a frail place and scaring you with my intent terrifying because not only did you call what happened is so I'm sorry you would call thank you I that's okay I I'm sorry for ever making you feel like I wouldn't want to work with you. Of course I did.

I was like hoping that that would be the thing that would happen. But then when you called me, and then as soon as we got off the phone, Mike Ryan called me, and then as soon as we got off the phone, somebody else will call me. I felt like, what it felt like to me was like,

you were like, of course you're coming, what do you mean you're not coming? If you don't come, we're not gonna be friends anymore. No. And I was like, I don't want, the reason that I was hesitant is because I didn't want to not be your friend because I didn't wanna resent you as a boss.

I didn't wanna get to a point where I felt the way about you that I felt about the company that I was currently at, which was ESPN. What did I do that made you feel we're not going to be friends anymore? You were manic and you were very intense about well what else are you going to do and I remember you said well you can't just be the cool girl your whole life and I was like I don't even know what that means and I I just remember being like, you are,

you were very, and I understood it. I wanna be clear, I understood that like, you were going through a very stressful period. But I also felt like you were like, not strong arming me, but sort of just like, let's go, let's go. And I was like, well, okay, how does this company work? And you keep saying you don't work with agents. My agent does all my business and I don't know anything about business. So if you're not working with agents, I'm screwed because I don't know how to do the

business side. I just know how to be silly. Um, and so that part I didn't understand. And then when it was like, well, we're going to have an arm that does producing like television stuff. We don't have that yet. And I was like, but I, but then, then there was exclusivity that was like, you can't do TV, but we don't have TV yet, but we will have TV. And it just was too much. I think I was already in a place where I was too up in the air that I wanted something that was like, and it was obviously I was expecting too much and obviously because it doesn't exist because I don't have a job right now, but I just wanted somebody that was like, look, we'll pay you this. We want you to do this. You'll get to work with

these two, three, four people. This will be the city you're based out of. It's, I needed it to be more structured because I am so unstructured. I actually benefit from being given structure so that I know the like, Ashley used to always call it a snow globe. If I knew the parameters I could shake up the inside of it without spilling over. Whereas if it's like you can do whatever you want, you'll work with whoever you want and we'll give and it'll be great and it's this. There was the not trust part of me from ESPN that was like I need more structure and then there was the part of me that was like I don don't succeed well in a, you can just do whatever you feel like that day.

I need somebody to be like, here's what we need to do this week. And we can do it however we want to, but these are the goals that we have, and this is what we're trying to make. So it was, you know, all of it together was just too much. And then I think it was the you calling, Mike calling, you calling, Mike calling, you calling, Mike calling that I

was just like I still I don't have a different answer than I just had for Dan. I don't know what to tell you. You're freaking me out and that was basically that. I'm sorry we created yet more stress. That's okay I'm sorry that I was stressed and that I wasn't in a place where I could just be like yeah let's go. I would love to be that person. Everything in me wants to be that person who's just like we'll figure it out when we get there but I'm not I didn't understand that what what I thought was passion was being heard as an intensity that was scary like here's our opportunity what

do you mean now we can make our own thing we can do it our way without I'd be honest honest I really didn't want to move to Miami and I thought that's what you were gonna ask me to do Sorry to Miami but I just it's not a lot of a lot of people do but I didn't I wasn't thinking that you had to Move to Miami, but I didn't know and I couldn't it wasn't really clear to me Nothing was clear at that time. It seemed the industry since then has provided the clarity of oh it's all falling apart. Every I know it really is. You picked a hell of a time to be like I'm getting into this I'm gonna do this myself. How has it been terrifying? I mean it's been exhilarating, frustrating, terrifying, harder than I thought it would be. Not quite like I thought freedom, how I imagine total freedom would feel

because it comes with a responsibility I wasn't expecting. But I also hate all of the business parts of this. So when you say your agent handles that stuff, what we are constructing is a place that one day, hopefully, will have the trust of its employees so that the business is acting as an agent for them. Which is a beautiful idea. But that's the idea.

We're free agents, right? We don't work for anybody. We have a sponsor. Well, they work for you, right? I mean, does it seem every day as you're listening? If you listen, does it seem like anyone here works for you? I just got done telling Coogler, the producer of South Beach Sessions,

why does it feel like I work for everybody here? Just got done telling him that before we started because it does feel like that most of the time. He said we're cutting that. Yeah, he did say we're cutting that. No, I don't have any proof that he edits these at all. These just run unfiltered. You shouldn't, that's the whole point.

They gotta just run the way that they are. You have since learned what through the discomforts because I have found that some of the most fulfilling things I find, because when you ask me how has it been, it's been hard, but the most fulfilling things I've done in my life, all of them have been that. Without exception, I would say that's an absolute. They're, the harder they are, the more fulfilling that they end up being. So when you break apart an ugly cry on the floor, you certainly from there you

cannot see whatever liberty looks like or oh maybe that was a good thing but where are the things that feel good amid the uncertainty of what is my identity now if you alter my work identity? I think that I mean the main the first one the most obvious one to me but I also just feel so silly as a woman being like, love. But the biggest thing from that was that I had a person who, because we were still early in our relationship, Dan and I, when this happened. But I feel the same, just so that you know.

And it's not love of other, although you might articulate it in a syrupy way, it's that it allows you to love yourself. What I have found in love is some real healing, like just some, I can be more gentle with myself because this person is, she sees something in me I don't see. Yeah, we were we were still early in in what we were becoming and I think that was the moment where I realized that like this person is not watching my career and going, oh it's on its way way down I'm on my way out. He was believed it made me see that he was like I think the things the companies that

are the situation that you find yourself in is not a reflection on yourself which was something I needed to hear at the time. And it also made me feel safe. It just made me feel like, okay, so he gets me. He's not like, oh wow, when we weren't dating, you won an Emmy and now you're leaving ESPN and don't have a job. Cool, I'm getting you at your worst time. He was like excited for, like he saw,

the way you say that I couldn't see the good stuff that would come from it. I felt like I was looking in the eyes of a person, like literally looking in the eyes of a person who could see what would be coming down the road. And so I felt like, all right, whether he's, you know, tell him the truth or not, cause that's the thing about love, you can't question it. You have to just go, I believe him.

He, I was like, he can see that this is just a thing that's happening to me it's a thing I will go through and it's a thing I'm going to come out the other side of. Now depression is a bitch and so coming out the other side isn't always as easy and the annoying thing about it is when you say that nothing good or none of the most rewarding things in your life have ever not been hard. I think the thing that's so frustrating to me about depression is that it's just hard and it doesn't feel like it's hard for any reason. It just feels like an unnecessary burden and weight that you're constantly hoping one day you'll wake up and go, oh, it's gone. And that's not really how it works. ["Dreams of a New World"]

It's funny how people think of you versus what you actually, or how you actually exist. And I am curious what people think about me and how I live and stuff like that, because I'm always, I've always came up in my own head, right? I haven't had people to discuss these things with, so it's all up in here. And so I'm always concerned

of what people are thinking of me growing up and like, oh, they can't possibly like me if they're not outwardly saying as much. And so I am always, always growing up, always been in my own head. And it leads to insecurity, right? Because if you're alone with it. So even to this day,

even to this day where I'm pretty confident in what I can do, what I can offer, what I can do, what I can offer, you know, what I do professionally. I, for years, have seen you guys and listened to you guys fly in guests from all parts of the country and get regular run right next to you and Stu, whether it be Mina, Dominique, Bomani, whomever. And when I'm on the show,

most of the time it was to fill in for you. And where I see that as, in my head, oh, just to fill in, just because he's local, it's convenient, I actually think other people look at it as, no, he actually does a good job filling in for Dan, and not many people do that. And so in my head, I'm thinking, no chance in hell that people actually like me. And so in my head I'm thinking no chance in hell

that people actually like me. And in my head I'm thinking you don't like me as much as those others because I'm not here every month or whatever, even though I live in this place. 100%. Taken for granted, cause you're the local guy. Taken for granted. And when you have them, this is how stupid it is, okay?

When you have them in here, when it's been two months since Dominique comes, he gets a rousing round of applause. You got nothing today. I got nothing. Not today, last time. But that's how crazy it is. It doesn't effing matter. I know you don't think, I know the guys over there,

the people in the shipping container, mission control, don't think of me that way, right? But in my head, I'm just like, well why? That's funny that you would look at it that way all of those have been visitors that are shipped in from elsewhere you've been the guy that everyone around here has known since you were a kid that's what I'm telling you they all they all grew up everyone here grew up with you grew up reading you grew up I mean some of the people here are young enough to know you from being the person who was on highly questionable more than any of the other

people but you're you're always around and it's a boggling to me like to hear you say that and I have experienced that like I have you know met people it's just like well I've watched you my whole life it's crazy I can't even think about that but I don't know old man old man diarrhea you are no matter no matter how how muscular you are and even though we're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic,

you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic,

you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic,

you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic, even at this age, like I can relate to whatever age group, whether it be because I'm sort of stuck in this, you know, 20 to 25 range over the last couple of years, or because I've, you know, I get along with and I vibe with old souls and old people in general.

I'm just in this like, in this wonderful place right now. And I love it, even my hair has worked out perfectly because like everybody loves it. Everybody loves it. You're a silver fox. It's much better than the amount of gray that's forming all over me in a way that's not quite as sexy.

You have an unusually good relationship with my father because not everyone has those with my dad. And I think it's only because you find him funnier than anyone else does. I just find, like it's the same thing with Greg Cody. I just find it humorous that, you know, you put yourself, they've lived their entire lives, had their whole careers, and even Greg's

has been in a similar medium, not quite, you know, TV and radio, but it's like, they just kind of put themselves in a spot and just like, well, here it is. Let me just, you know, take it all in, or let me just, like the fact that your dad was on television every single day. And like, it's the only thing people talk to me about.

Him and Stephen A Smith, even though I've never worked with Stephen A Smith. It's a funny joke if you have never respected television to put your father on in his second language and have him steal the show from you. Because it's all anyone wants to talk to me about either. I spent eight years slaving on that show, looking at looking for bear videos, bears falling out of trees and landing on a trampoline to entertain the people.

And all they want to talk about is my dad. And where's my head when I'm sitting right next to him and I can hear him breathing and I look at him and I'm just like, Oh man, I feel so bad for him because he's just listening for the next line. He's working. Like your dad was working in that middle seat. And I was just like, everybody else is enjoying this so much, but you're not.

That makes me sad. Well, that part was a bummer, but I suspect you saw the innards of the thing though. You saw it from an unusually intimate angle where you could see that my dad didn't respect me as the boss and where I would just get, look at him, he still laughs at me. It's like when I complain about stugats with anybody

and people just burst out laughing at the dinner table because of course. Because your dad would always, he's obviously got somebody in his ear all this time, Eric, Eric Rydholm would be in his ear or whoever was given him the lines that day. Well, you're revealing a secret that I don't think a lot of people know.

I mean- They know he was being fed lines. Come on. I don't know if they know that he's being fed lines. So spoiler alert, if you want to go back in time, he was being fed lines. I think they think that my father is a 100% authentic personality who was just that clever every single time. You know what? That is actually fair. There were a good percentage of time where he would play his own hits. That's right. He didn't need to be. That's true.

So that's 1000%. He was not 100% a puppet. That's true. Your dad's a genius actually. And I mean, for the most part, when he was having a good time, that's when it was the best. That's when it was 1000% genuine.

I love just the fact that this man is sitting here giggling and doing a job he's getting paid for that he never once in his life thought he would ever do well let me ask you because you and I have not talked very much about the mechanics of the doing of that show because It is a weird thing to Sit next to a grown man and his father and have chemistry with those two people did you spend any time at all examining your relationship with your own father as i sat there next to mine and we'd played patty cake on television trying to figure out uh... because i had a better relationship with my father in the later years that i had

any other time because we could have at least this television show as a connection point. It didn't make me think of my father and my relationship with him in particular just because I knew it would never get to that level even if he hadn't had the stroke, whether it be because of the language barrier, if he didn't want to speak English and I didn't feel like speaking Spanish or whether it because he wouldn't he wouldn't change his personality grow the way he grew up I don't know if that ever would have been what I was longing for But there was definitely a sense not of jealousy, but it's just wondering

you know to if I could have that male figure in my life that I could have that level of relationship with because even when you were upset with your dad and all that stuff in the back of your head it was like this is my fault. I brought him onto this so if he's upset it's because of me in any sort of way so you're just kind of balancing the whole let's make good TV with don't piss off my dad but also thank you dad. You know it's just it's a lot going on there and the mechanics of it being, I can feel you from two seats over handling all of that and yet somehow so eloquently dropping this take

that I was just like, son of a bitch, I wish I would have had that take because now I've gotta somehow get something that's just slightly different and set up Poppy. It was just a lot going on and it had to do with that relationship because if it was somebody else in the middle, I wouldn't think that you were worried about everybody.

I think you would just worry about yourself. And in that scenario, I felt like doing that show, I felt like you were carrying weight for everybody, all three of us. I believe that's kind of a curse of mine, though. I'm not sure that... Meaning that you get that feeling across. Well, when we're doing our show in here,

if somebody checks out for six minutes in the back row, I find myself reaching for them like, are they okay? Do they like, do they wanna get in here? The windows are too tight. I mean, they're often editing or they've been boxed out because we now have 400 people talking at the microphone. So. I thought you were gonna say they're all boxed out by Tony.

Tony can get to yammering, yes, and he can box people out. You saw something though in that show and my father that it felt to me like you and my father loved each other in a way that I thought was beautiful. Like my father appreciated, you were always so gentle with him. Everybody who was in that seat was more gentle with him than I was because we come to that show with all the baggage. But you were so remarkably gentle with my father.

I don't think he would have a bad thing to say about you. Thanks. I feel like I was just kind of doing what was needed at the moment, probably because you were the opposite of that with him a lot of the time, and just because I recognize the situation. But like he's, you know, he's always just a pleasant man. Like you just can't be unhappy around him unless, you know, he's sad or whatever. But yeah, I just, I don't know what to say. It's a similar thing. I told you I just kind of get along well with old souls. Like, your dad's been through some stuff. Your dad like went through some shit.

Your dad like worked his way up to be what he was. And he birthed you and your brother, and you guys are just like being super successful. And it's just like, man, this guy deserves some flowers. He deserves some rest. He deserves some, you know, just to live up his life the way he deserves to. And here he is, you know know just doing it for you.

Do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do. A lot has changed over the years but one thing that hasn't the great taste of Miller Lite. Man we was just watching Celtics versus Nuggets last night and the catalyst to the party, the vibe, the vibe changer, the mood increaseer was the Miller Lite cooler in the middle of the living room. Salute to Miller Lite man and when you're out having a great time oh my goodness you want to reach for a beer that's reliable and I cannot name, think of or even ponder a more reliable beer than Miller Lite. Can you dig it?

Times change but you can always enjoy the great taste of Miller Lite. Tastes like Miller Time. To get Miller Lite delivered right to your door, visit MillerLite.com slash Beach or you can find it pretty much anywhere that sells beer. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories per 12 ounces. Yiddick!