The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Sporting Class: Why Do Sports Leagues Speak Out? Why Are the NFL and NBA So Desperate to Go International?

Episode Date: October 13, 2023

Meadowlark Media CEO John Skipper and Nothing Personal's David Samson are back with another episode with Pablo Torre Finds Out host... Pablo Torre to host! Welcome to the Sporting Class! We start today off with what’s going on within the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the business of it. Sports leagues are speaking out. Players are speaking out. Fans are speaking out. Then, where do we stand on the global sports power rankings currently? The NFL wants Europe. The NBA has games in Abu Dhabi. Why are they doing this? Plus, World Cup 2034 is right around the corner. And the nominations are in… it’s Saudi Arabia… and… who? Also, What is Warner Bros. Discovery up to? It could be a battle with ESPN and Fox. But what about the NBA? Could they be giving part of that pie up? And finally, Rich Paul has come out and said the collapse of the Regional Sports Networks is actually good for the players. How true is this? Does he see something others don’t? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're listening to Giraffe King's Network. This is the Dunlabel Tarshou with the Stugat's Podcast. There's a lot of stuff for us to get to, all of it anchored in the world of sports business. I do want to do the thing that is both uncomfortable and necessary Which I point out that if you are getting your news from me right now Pobletauray host the Pobletauray finds out about the war in the Middle East God help you a But me there's just some basic accounting that is objectively horrifying. Like, as we tape right now, the death toll in Israel is up over a thousand people

since Saturday, the terrorist attack carried out by Hamas. And by the way, the Palestinian authorities are now saying that over a thousand people have now been killed in Gaza due to the retaliatory attacks from the state of Israel. And so, of course, there is a lot here that will be infuriating to so many people, even the framing of what I've said, I'm sure it's objectionable on some point, on some level at some point. But I want to get to what it is that like sports has to do with this, because we're getting to a point, John and David, in which we're seeing statements from leagues,

from teams, this is a global catastrophe. But it's also one that we're seeing American sports weigh in on, and I'm curious, David, why that is, are you surprised by it? What goes through your mind? I will never forget being in Milwaukee on 9-11, and then going to the commissioners office,

which at the time was in Milwaukee with Bud Sealig, and us sitting at a table figuring out what our responses are we calling off games, how long are we gonna stop, when are we gonna start again, what is the statement that we're gonna make? And thinking to myself, sports has such a unique position. If I own a Walgreens franchise or a Wendy's franchise or any other business, I'm not thinking to myself, sports has such a unique position. If I own a Walgreens franchise or a Wendy's franchise or any other business, I'm not thinking like that.

I'm thinking about how I deal with my employees and how do I keep making money. But sports as an institution that has the pulse of the people's cultural well-being is well established. And I think this is yet another example. When any natural disaster happens, people look to sports teams, sports leagues, 9-11. When this happens, the Warren Israel, the leagues feel as though they have to respond, and they immediately, there's like a PR 911 call

that goes out when things like this happen, and they sit down and figure out, okay, what are we going to say and when are we going to say it? And how much money do we have to donate if it's a natural disaster? Yeah, I would remind people that sports did play a very significant role at 9-11 and an appropriate role. It's sort of re-rallying the country to be resolute and to continue on with their daily lives. Remember the game in Yanky Stadium? Yeah. Where President Bush came and through the first pit. Sure.

Strike. Right. You threw a strike and by the way, for most people it symbolized, oh okay, we're going to move on, right? We'll always remember. We of course do want to retaliate, but sports had a role in bringing people back together. There's a lot of hubris there and I'm in sports, so it's hard for me to say this. Yes. Let me tell you, there's a lot of people that don and I'm in sports. So it's hard for me to say this. Yeah, let me tell you

There's a lot of people that don't view sports as the Entrez into making the country feel better or who care about who won the O1 world series when the Diamondbacks upset the Yankees Which would have been a perfect end or when the Red Sox won the year of the marathon bombing These are great stories because we love telling great stories in the world of sports But there are things that are bigger than sports. And what I used to worry about running a team is when do we not get involved? Well, that's the, John, that's the question, where is the line drawn? I mean, I want to look at this cynically.

The idea that, okay, sports considers itself a civic institution in ways that are unique clearly, but how do you calculate when you have to weigh in? I'm not sure I understand that. I mean, I do understand 9.11, right? It's on our soil and clearly the leagues feel that they need to make a statement because of the special relationship with Israel. But you could make an argument that they have no business

making a statement of what are every other country, every other association is the PTA coming out with a statement, I have WWF coming out with a statement. We all abhorish. Jewish- Jewish- Jewish-related businesses are all coming out with statements and they're talking to their employees.

This is not a small deal. There are rallies going on. There are threats that are happening. There's people who feel unsafe. As the CEO of a company, you're just gonna sit back and say, oh, we don't need to get involved. But let's measure how many Jews we have in the company, how many Jew owners are Jewish, but we have no, I think you were saying, and this is so interesting to me, there's no Palestinian owners, so we have to come out on the side of Israel. Is that a thought that's in your head, because it's never in mind in my calculus. In my calculus right now, no, it's not in my calculus

that because there's no Palestinian owner, they're making a statement in favor of Israel. Clearly, Hamas attacked and they are the culpable party and should be held accountable for that. But the question we're talking about is, why are the leagues holding them accountable? Why is MLB in an NBA and NFL coming out and issuing statements? Did they issue a statement when there was a flood in Syria?

I don't recall hearing a statement from the leagues about the loss of the flu. Are you saying that was flooding? Are you saying that the flooding series is the same as the killing of women and children by terrorist organizations? You're not saying that. No, it's more reprehensible, but it is still for the families of the deceased. It is just as profound that there people were swept away

by a flood. Boy, I take natural disasters as quite separate. But let's take it separately, though. And John, we were talking earlier today about Myanmar, right? There are examples that your own India, like thousands of people killed by a state. That's a tougher one for me. Yeah, comparing what you said,

and that is one that I think about, is why do I care about certain issues and not others? And it's because those issues pertain to me. I have a connection to them. It's the reason why I raised money for cancer, a lung cancer, I never did it before, then my sister died of it. Now I raised money for lung cancer. But before I did, it doesn't mean I didn't have raised money for cancer, lung cancer. I never did it before. Then my sister died of it.

Now I raised money for lung cancer. Before I did it, it doesn't mean I didn't have empathy for people who had lung cancer. There's a bandwidth for what you can deal with. When something like this happens in Israel, to think that the leagues where there are Jewish owners, and there's always something about the anti-Semitism, it's much like what happened. There were statements made when there was Asian hate, when there were Black Lives Matter. These things, while some of them happened

on American soil, some of them didn't, but there's certain things you very well know. You've got to comment on. Right. That's what I view this as. Right. And again, the commissioners are there to serve at the will of the owners.

So I don't think they make these statements without consulting with owners, you would know this better than that. They're racist owners though. And they made a big NFL MBA, everyone did a big thing about the racial reckoning that took place with the deaths, et cetera, George Floyd. There's plenty of owners, and I'm the wide name,

we don't do that, but plenty of racist owners, racist owners you know that well the commissioners also have another constituency which is the players and uh... in that case i believe the constituency was overwhelmingly probably the players not the owners which is not to suggest that many of the owners were not called as well but i would assume they were reacting to the players it is interesting that only the NBA put out a statement in association with their players' association.

Very telling, very upsetting to me that MLB could not get together with the union to do a joint statement. They do it when there's natural disasters, they'll combine and you say that they do it out of love. It's actually part of the collective burden agreement that there is a fund of money that is set aside under the agreement that gets donated together

in concerts jointly when things bad happen, natural disasters, but this the players certainly should have commented. But are you assuming that the players were consulted and did not want to participate? They better have been. Rob Manford spends his time as commissioner talking about trying to get a better relationship with the players.

This is the type of thing where you don't want to flex the fact that, oh, we're making a statement and the players couldn't get to it. This is not where you're trying to win anything in collective bargaining or in the court of public opinion. So I would assume that it wouldn't be the commissioner of Clientoni Clark, but there are PR people who would have spoken.

But if we do the exegesis to use a biblical term, now an Old Testament term, the exegesis of press releases as we love to do on this show, and we notice this stuff, it feels like the absence of total unanimity as to why and how they would do this, it feels illustrative of the larger complexity and moral hazard around this specific topic. Which is to say, why does Israel get the attention? Why do they get the sympathy and not Palestine and not me and Mar, not other groups, David?

Like this is, which speaks to again, that sort of objectively toxic conspiratorial thinking around the quote unquote conspiracy of who is really in control of the world and sports and all of these institutions. Well, that's an antisemitic trope that you're discussing. Yes. That's not a conspiracy, that's an actual thing that people view Jewish people as, oh, they're all rich,

they're all in control, they control banking, they control Hollywood, they control sports. The irony is the number of Jewish owners who there were when I was in baseball, we were in the very large minority, not as big of minorities we are in real life, where there are people around, I told the story today with Dan,

or whenever we taped whatever we're doing, I don't know what day it is, God damn it. It's a blur, it's a blur. I never make those mistakes, never say never. I was on Sravah with someone who'd never met a Jew. Never met one. And that is more common than you'd think. I grew up in a small town in North Carolina

with not a single Jewish citizen. And by the way, without a single Catholic citizen, at the time I grew up. They're, they're anybody knew of, no temple and no Catholic church. Well, now you're surrounded by a Catholic, I guess, at least in name in ancestry and and and adieu. Well, it's interesting because you people are forced to confront things and it's a it's a big social experiment when you've never met someone who's trans or never met someone who's Jewish. Right. When minority, we're talking about minorities.

And that's, so you said something, David, that really resonated, which is, and this speaks to like how people are arguing about this. How are people plausibly seemingly confusing, with confusing terrorism with resistance, right? It's because for many people on all sides of this, the victims in question are abstract. The idea that, so go ahead.

I just was going to say, I think David already said it. We respond to things that happen to people who are like the people we know, right? I don't happen to know any Rohingya Muslims, so it's easier for me to view that as some distant thing. On the other hand, when this happened, I know people who are worried about their families in Israel. I must admit, I don't know anybody who has worried about their family in Palestine. So I think David nailed it that you respond to those people you know and understand and in this country we we overwhelmingly stand with Israel So I I'm with you until that last sentence. I don't believe that in America we overwhelmingly stand with Israel

I think that politically maybe and maybe in sports, but if you go and pull people around our country They're give a shit level toward what's going on in Israel right now is diminimous Yeah, I'm not sure I would agree with that. I think you would find that the American sentiment is overwhelmed. Certainly the public and the federal government and most officials. You'll find very few people I think willing to break with

Israel and the publicly in the United States right now. Well, it is certainly, it is again, polling data can answer this question. But for us here, it does feel like this topic has been safely ranked as the number one most radioactive thing that people don't want to touch at all. Third rail. The most third electrified rail of American discourse feels like Israel and Palestine. And now, I suppose, we should turn our attention to the world at large and to all of these leagues, John,

who like to behave as if they are nation-states. Because here we are empire building, right? And so the international desires of certainly we've talked about the NFL in London, the NBA in Abu Dhabi, just recently, why are these leagues, these businesses obsessed with expansion overseas? John, I know what you're gonna say,

I could almost talk on your behalf, but I'd like to give you the microphone because I think that people will not agree with you. So that's why I want you to start, so then I can explain why I think you're wrong. I think that the American major leagues do think of themselves as nation states to a certain extent. So, but I also think that they want to be global sports. And I do believe that one of the big American leagues has the opportunity to be a global sport. He's going to say the NBA about right because of his friendship with Adam Silver. No, I'm going to say the NBA because it is a fact. The NBA has an opportunity and is well on its way to being a global sport.

And that is mostly because you can play soccer with a field and some cans and bottles for a goal and with a ball. You can play basketball with a hoop and a ball and four people. You cannot play tackle football or baseball or hockey Without a lot of equipment. That's not true. Paid into the Dominican Or Venezuela. I have been we've scout players on a shoes. They barely have gloves That's why they're so good at being oh well. Why are so many Dominican players so good at baseball because they catch Baseball's with their bare hand without spice on but baseball doesn't have to conquer the Dominican Baseball is the most popular sport in in the Dominican Republic and I agree with you

It would be easier for them to play soccer or basketball, but they love baseball and because they're closely the United States They have a chance to send people the United States for whom this is the greatest economic opportunity of their lives but baseball is not going to be a global sport in the same way that basketball so adam silver goes to Abu dhabi and puts a tempo down because he wants it to be a global sport and to be a global sport you have to be

have a presence in you a there's a theory well that is a theory possible another, that is a theory. A possible another theory. There is a second. Yes. In this case, I could probably speak for you. I say that you're going to suggest they're there because they won't investment from the sovereign wealth funds into their teams because finish it off. If you know what I'm going to say, I mean,'ll be happy to take a break. That's all the David Samson I could do.

They're meeting now, it's pretty good. You never go full, David Samson, John, that's wise. Is there having a meeting with the Deputy Seat Commissioner and the quote I think was discussing and exploring further opportunities for collaboration? What he's trying to get investment in teams. They're trying to get limited partners. They're trying to get money the way Leon sister did.

He got the investment. These teams need... Ted Leon sister owner of the Wizards. Yes. And the Mystic. Yes. And the Capitals? Yes.

Onesamal, you wouldn't argue with the fact that investment is a form of collaboration. It's an ugly second cousin that once in a while you're allowed to kiss maybe, but no, I think that they're trying to hide. They're trying to hide what they're really after here. And they're doing it under the form of, hey, we want to expand globally. We want everyone to love our sport, but they're not going to poor places. You know, this is an occasion for me to observe just how biblical your name is.

It is. David, Samson, two of the more important. I've understood this, but I think as we focus on the region, the biblical nature of your name becomes more and more important. That's right. This is John trying to cut your hair incidentally. Go a little delilah on you.

Two amazing biblical characters. I was named after my great-grandfather, whose name was Duffchick. Duffchick? Duffchick? Yiddish name, he spoke no one, he was Yiddish, and spoke Yiddish, and not Yiddish Russian, but spoke Yiddish, and his name was Duffchick. But let me borrow a little Yiddish, right? Okay. and uh... smoky dish and uh... not yet is russian but smoky it is

and his aim is to check but let me borrow a little yet isch right okay the hootspa the hootspa on behalf of roger godel right trying to export the nfl to england john what it we what what is this to you well you know i've been consistent on this i think

going to play american tackle football around most of the rest of the world isn't up hill struggle it's sycophine uh... i'm not sure why the uh... emphasis is put on trying to get teams to london

i've been to london and i've seen the NFL games in wimbley and and they're entertaining and it's fun and people have a great time But they leave and they go home and watch things primarily on television the next week and I'm not sure why the NFL wants to be not the most it they can't be the most important sport in In England most important American sport or sport sports sports board Well, I think they're not trying to be the most important sport sport. They'd like to be the most important American sport in uh... in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in our thing with flip balls, we always want to get to year at first because we wanted to have the 10 polls in American sport. But what is the point of being the most important American sport?

It matters whether you're just an important sport in the Asian country. The reason why it mattered to us is that we wanted to get broadcast rights. We wanted to sell our broadcast rights. We wanted to get promoters who, if dollars are fungible, and they're going to promote American sports in their facilities and they only have X dollars to deal with if they give it to baseball, then they won't give it to football. But what is the ultimate goal? So merchandise to, it's to augment the central fund with international revenue.

From broadcasters. From broadcasters. And broadcasters. I'm not sure. I'm not sure certainly why that. How much of the media dollars for baseball come from outside the United States? So we're trying to create, it's not big.

It's big, the Japan is the biggest, and then it goes down. And so Europe is sort of an uncharted territory. There's not a lot of money for broadcasting in Puerto Rico or it's a minute can prevent as well. So that's why baseball, you try Europe because you think that if you find some players who are European, we had an Amsterdam player. Mm-hmm.

A Dutch player. A Dutch player, thank you. Oh my God. Coco, what's his name? Vandenherk? That I just may have a feeling. Wait, from the present tensor from your time. My time.

He was, he was Rick Vandenherk. Was a player herk was a player I believe we have Rick vanden is that really possible that I have there is a Dutch baseball pitcher whose name is Rick vanden her so had him as a player and we always said to baseball let us go to Amsterdam because we're gonna be big there I love it's not because the other fact I've discerned from his Wikipedia page is that Rick Vandenherk, oh no. You're exporting his 6.08 ERA.

I didn't say it was good. I just said we have just the desperation. But it doesn't, Rick, doesn't all, the idea that a Dutch player is gonna make you popular in the Netherlands There's there is a prototype for that which is Yao Ming in China, which kind of worked on the other hand kind of It's the number one example. Yes, it's why it isn't a really has academies everywhere because they want to find players foreign born They want Yao Ming. It's the number one

I got it but but I but I didn't necessarily appreciate till I now get David's sense of the risk board that is planted earth is the idea that these are also anchor babies that we're going to plant them abroad and they will be the outpost around which we build our empire. I was in the meeting when money was allocated to India to try to find baseball players in India. And we're seeing the meeting saying, all right, how much money do we have to pour in there in order to get a major leager? And then we have the baseball operations people come in

and say, hey, it's a decade if it's a minute and then it's likely never to happen. And we're like, all right, just give them a hundred grand. Do a little academy, but no equipment. I love this notion that if we just plan and catch with our hands. Exactly. this notion that if we just plan it, catch with their heads. Exactly. Plant an academy, you'll end up with, you know, a Derek Jeter of baseball for India.

Isn't that what soccer does? I thought that was the whole thing. We always try to, and now I mean, serious, we always try to replicate the academies in soccer where people grow up, play in the sport, and become big leaguers for their country. But they tend to grow up playing the sport that's already being played in their country. You got to start somewhere. I know. I just don't.

You're very stupid. But let's reframe this though in the context of the NFL, which is not seemingly Taylor Swift aside, as thirsty as Major League Baseball is. You got to fail. Oh no, they're thirsty. They're more thirsty than anybody else. And David led us to an interesting point, which is there there, ultimately,

to try to get more media dollars to pay to their American teams, I guess is what they are. But I suspect at this point, for baseball hockey, maybe basketball and football, less than 1% of their media revenue is come from outside the United States. So you're always trying to grow revenue. So you're looking for other frontiers.

That's what expansion is. Isn't it generally the case that you grow revenue from the place you already have the most revenue? But then you'd never expand. No, that's not, you can maybe grow, but you know this when you're building your business hold and go ahead the NFL just extracted multiple billions of dollars more From the United States media market Would feel to me like an investment in more football in the United States would likely pay off before an investment in London

But they're doing it. They got the 930 times lot. It's just playing 930 game. You got to be in a little bit further east than New York. And so they're in London. You could play in New York at 930. There's not one football player or a union that would allow a game to start at 930 AM. We have to fight. Do you know the Patriots Day game is a collective bar in an agreement issue. That's the one in Boston. That starts on the Boston Marathon Day, Patriots Day, and I believe first pitch may be 11 a.m. And they get an exception because in the agreement games can't start before a certain time. Players don't like morning games. They're not morning people.

What's more patriotic than collective bargaining? There's it's the number one. You have to bargain everything. Which you should want, if you are pro labor, you should want everything to be bargain where you can't tell your employees that they have to show up at 9.30. Like in metal arc, you don't tell anyone when to come. And therefore they don't come.

I don't know, they're here all the time. We're around the clock here, David. That's right, I live in this, do you know what this is going? We have bunk in the back that you made up your world. I couldn't find a place to do an interview. You're in the back. You're not here. We have microphones made of milk cartons

just like in San Pedro, yes. Okay. So, all right. That's John's signal, in case you're getting to know John Pablo, when he drops an okay about six to 12 inches away from the microphone, he's ready to move on. Both of you use the word OK in very meaningful senses. Um, differently.

But I wanna make just a slight pivot as we spin our globe, right? And both of you resemble an Alexander the Great. Just like, would you know that quote about him? Why Alexander wept? I was just wondering why you kept using the F bomb. Again, it's sorry, Koka, but the quote is, and Alexander wept for there were no more worlds left to conquer.

You're the turtle. That's a Dr. Seuss reference for those of you in the back. I don't know that. You're the turtle, the turtle. Do you know, you've never heard of you're the turtle? I have heard of you're the turtle. The king of everything you could see. So they climb on the turtles, Dr. Suss.

I don't remember it with quite that degree. You know, it's been a long time for me, David. I read it. I still read it. Back between the two big wars, back in the 30s. My mom was reading that to me. It's my motivational book when I wake up in the morning. At public mobile, we do things differently.

From our subscription phone plans to throwing a big sale right now when no one else is. Well maybe they are, but who cares, our sale is better. And it's on right now, no waiting necessary. You have the latest phone, now take advantage of a great price on a 5G subscription phone plan. It's the perfect deal for anyone who could use some savings right now. Subscribe today at publicmobile.ca. Different is calling. Don Lebertard!

David Samson, weirdo. Because he was not the fun substitute teacher who'd wheel out a TV and play a VHS tape on Armageddon in science class. He was the weird one, who would eat an ex-salad sandwich while clipping his toenails into the trash can and running about Ronald Reagan. Stugats. The guy kept talking about how his ass was smooth. Smoother than a newborn's cheek.

He wouldn't stop bragging about his bare buttics to me. This is the Don Lebertar with this two cats. Who is more yurtled than Cep Blatter? Wow, he climbed pretty high on the back. So a lot of people. So here we are looking at our globe and looking at FIFA. And this is John's account, I think, in ways that are profound for reasons that I want to get into here, but here is the latest.

The latest is that FIFA is examining the host country candidates for 2030, the 2030 World Cup. And it is looking more and more likely that Saudi Arabia is going to be the host. And of course, Spain, Portugal, Morocco are going to be the primary hosts in 2030. And FIFA is getting the first game so they get to count that as country's taking care of for 2030, conveniently making it so, hey, who's left Australia? Yeah, they're gonna bid, not win, and then Saudi Arabia. Right, so I set platter, must be so proud

that what he did in the foundation he set for the new guy, Gianni. I'm a septic platter. Septic platter. That's what you call them when you doubt with him? A piece of garbage. You ****. Sorry, Coco. But but set bladder, Gianni, in Vantino, the same song, right?

The same song. And so, John, what do you get out of this story that, oh, hey, Saudi Arabia might be having the most popular, most profitable sports event in 2034. I believe they are probably floating it publicly to see what the reaction level is, but that that's where they would like to be, because they will get paid a large sum of money for being there. And there was recently the news that they lowered the number of stadiums that you had to have from 7 to 4,

which happens to be the number that Saudi Arabia has that qualify. So yeah, I think they're trying to set that up because it's the nonprofit organization with the highest levels of compensation for their senior officers possible. I like that you're accusing them and you have great reason given your history and given what you know about it and given what we've learned about FIFA and how corrupt they are. But I would have liked to see them change the rules later. I don't like the causation of changing a rule where you are doing it just to help a country. I don't think that's proper. And that's all they did.

When you go from seven to four and it's, why don't I go from seven to two and say, look, Saudi Arabia catapults over the required. Well, you don't like when they change a rule for a specific location. How about you just take the whole damn tournament and run it in the winter instead of the summer because you've decided to do it in Qatar, which by the way, in their presentation lied and said that they would have air conditioned stadiums, which were not possible to get built. They did not build them.

Now they're going to try to go to Saudi Arabia. This should be in football nations, and nations should have to earn that designation and be there. I guess they're trying to, with their league. I don't know why you'd go back to the Middle East 10 or 12 years when you haven't been to England, the home of the sport since 1966, why you would feel the need to go back to...

Why would you ever go back to London? England, what's the purpose? What would be the benefit of... You've already conquered that world, is what David and Sik. I see that. They're the lowest turtle. England is literally the lowest turtle in Yurtle the Turtles kingdom.

By that definition, you take the Super Bowl to teams that don't have the cities that don't have teams. If they've already talked about neutral sites, they've talked about doing it in cities where they're not, where there hasn't been a football team, but they're talking in baseball Scott Boras wants to do the The neutral site world series as a way to increase revenue so his players get more and I get it I do you say Boras that way deliberately or is that just how it's actually pronounced?

It's Boris. Yeah, but he boars me. He's bored me. I've wasted hours of my life I thought it was a second syllable. Yeah As part yes We go back and listen to that Go back and when we go back and listen to the first you also are on that same wavelength first Pronunciation I want to distract from journal with Scott, but I will say that what is the big story for me around what FIFA did is they are now no longer, and maybe what they learn from the corruption trial is,

let's actually be way more upfront with what we're doing, no need to hide it anymore. We're gonna give it to 2030, all these different, seven, what are there, six or seven countries now, and then we're gonna give it to Saudi Arabia. But does that help the football world number one?

Does it help them actually raise revenue by getting more people playing football around the world? Which is what they claim they do with world cups is they put a stake in the ground for it to become a bigger population center of football players. So the other bit of context, John, is at the Saudi pro league. Their clubs have spent nearly one billion dollars over this summer, bringing new players to, to their, to their shore. And the leads are pissed. If you talk to owners of, of EPL teams or Syria or wherever, wherever other

team, other leagues, there's now another competitor. He, Saudi Arabia is like the Steve Cone, but on steroids, when Steve Cone came in to Major League Baseball and upset the other owners, because he was gonna bring his payroll so high. Sorry, Arabia is doing exactly what they said they were going to do. And now FIFA is saying we co-sign.

Keep doing it, because you're being rewarded with a World Cup. I'd like them to be not rewarded with a World Cup. I would prefer to see the World Cup somewhere else than in Saudi Arabia. First of all, once again suggesting they're going to play in the summer, it's a travesty to move the tournament to the winter. So they need to keep it in the summer, they need to explain how they're going to play those games in the summer in that area.

And you as a broadcaster, what I was thinking about from a revenue standpoint, because FIFA gets its payments, but the broadcaster, they actually, when they're bidding, don't care. Whether it's in England, Saudi Arabia, and Wales,

am I wrong? What is that? Yeah, John, how do they do care? So you bid more if it were in a nicer place? Well, my recollection is we had to bid before we, well, I don't have a good recollection of that to say the truth. I, for some, we did not consider the,

we, yeah, we preferred not to, we would try to lobby for it not to be there. We would rather it was in a better time zone and we would rather it was in Europe or in the, in the Western hemisphere. But doesn't that lack of, of, of importance such that you don't even recall it. Doesn't that speak to what the actual probably does? The value of this thing, how desperate people are to get this. The thing is, they're not driving any more value by putting in Saudi Arabia. Other than money will exchange hands almost certainly.

And once again, the voting members of the X-Co will probably be the beneficiary of this in somewhere or the other. How do you bid, I'm sorry to ask a question and I I shouldn't, I'm gonna get in trouble after the show. How do you bid for something when you don't know what your production costs are and when you don't know where it's gonna be? Well, you know, do you just make assumptions? Well, it just doesn't vary that much, right?

It's not more expensive to do a show, to be in Saudi Arabia than it is to be in Pittsburgh. It would probably be much less expensive to be in Saudi Arabia because you did what Fox did and threatened not to produce it from there. They will, they will, they will underwrite it. But if you actually have to spend money and go to Saudi Arabia produced, it doesn't cost that much more money. They have facilities that they built. In fact, they have great facilities. They don't have great stadiums. But they have great facilities. They

don't have great things for people to do. It's funny, because in my head, as we're thinking about value, as we have meetings on the other side of our broadcasters, we always thought that broadcasters cared about location. We thought broadcasters cared about which teams were in certain games, who's playing in certain games, where, what time the games are played. And all I hear you say, not all, often I hear you say, not it doesn't matter who's playing in certain games, where, what time the games are played, and all I hear you say, not all, often I hear you say, that doesn't matter who's playing, doesn't matter where it is, doesn't matter what time it is, and I don't think you were ever that way when you were the keeper of the purse strings at in Bristol. So I just, I'm beginning to know you in a way that,

if I'd known back then, what a softy you are, it would have changed every way we would have negotiated. I'm not sure I would have been regarded by the people who negotiated on that side table as a softy, but I tried to just understand what the value was to us and was happy to try to get to a place that worked for both parties, but I didn't know, I didn't seriously. How much time did you stay?

No, but all of this is saying that, David, you're a bottom-run turtle. It's on it. There's no question. Up there, John's not worried about the things that you're concerned with. Not at all. So, here's the problem with that. Thank you for that. I feel it. Here's the problem with thinking that you are concerned with? Not at all. So here's the problem with that. Thank you for that. I feel it.

Here too. The problem with thinking that you ultimately have to pay a dollar more than whoever else is bidding. That's what I concentrated on much more than trying to mathematically decide, oh this is worth exactly this much, because I just wanted to win the bid. And if I'm going to go in and I had a CFO who always was mad at me because she always said what's your walk away point? I said my walk away point is when we win.

That's my favorite walk away point. That's my walk away point and if you're going to go in and say, well, I'm not going to pay you more money if you don't play the world series in a certain location or you don't agree to do this or that. We did that a lot, but it wasn't usually in the negotiation. It usually was in the midst of our deals, we would say, what about these changes? What if we did this? What if we added this to create value? And by the way, I always had a good response from the leagues that they were willing to do

things. You are right. They would quickly run into, we would love to do that, John, but it's not in the CBA, so we can't do it. But we actually did go and get some things that have... The timing is big, right? So the reason why leagues were acquiesced to you wanting to do things is they would come and meet with the teams and say, hey, we have a national deal coming up in two years, and we want to make sure that they are primed and going to bid more money.

You know, if you come to us the day after you sign a deal, we're going to say no to you, because it's too far, the new deal is too far away. So you purposely wait for the middle, it makes sense. But didn't actually change the day after the deal was signed, we're always going to hear you talk, because we love you. But I was busy celebrating the day. So I wasn't asking anything. Probably took at least a week or two. That's so nice of you. But no, I do think, look, I think that we were unique in not spending most of our time noodling over exactly what something was going to be worth and how much add,

much add dollars. We felt if we did a long deal and we've talked about that before, we would figure out how to make it work. And it is somewhat binary to ESPN which had a dominant position. You either get the right or you don't get the rights. A lot of our competitors had to decide we're going to bid for this. We can't bid more than this because if we do that we can't afford to keep some other rights that we have. And we didn't do it that way. We regarded every battle as a winnable battle. If we decided we wanted to buy something, we tried to buy it.

And so now we turn to the battle ground that Warner Brothers Discovery is surveying. Because the latest headlines there David are that, hey, Warner Brothers Discovery, one of these competitors that was not a competitor when John was astride, the Empire. Well, they were a competitor and a serious competitor, but go ahead. Kind of the top turtle to look down at a mid turtle. My point being though, that now Warner Brothers Discovery is competing with the ISPN and Fox, ostensibly, reportedly, I should say, for rights to the College Football Playoff.

Where did you learn that? What's the source of that? The New York Post. That's a source? Yeah, it's a source. I would be interested in knowing where they got that information. The only person that that benefits is whoever's selling the college football playoff. I do not know whether negotiations right now, I don't understand why Warner Brothers' discovery would be thinking about buying that. They have a lot of debt. They're

making a lot of changes, most of which involve saving money. They have the most important sports rights in their portfolio up, which is the NBA, they need to win that. College football playoff would do very little for them. I suspect they're thinking about driving a lot of subs into a streaming service by putting the college football playoffs, but there's not enough games, and it doesn't last long enough. We did not value, for instance, the Olympics at ESPN because we did 17 days. It comes and goes and doesn't really, didn't really help us out. I don't know why they would put their attention. I do not believe they're a series competitor

for the college football playoff. And of course, it was in the New York Post. So I'm assuming that some New York Post reporter went to the bathroom and person in the urinal next to them said hey i heard water i heard water bro discovery might be interesting there he goes selling the audience doesn't remind me of a great new york post headline though which was headless body and topless bar that's not one that's not a shirt's time and time square it's a good one it's the best. It's long been the best part of the New York Post is their, their punny headlines.

I thought page six was. That's always a good one. Well, I think that there's a little deeper issue here. And I think, Pablo, you brought it up because you're saying that if dollars are fungible, that Turner could go to the NBA and say, hey, what we've told you all along is, we're not going to give you the three x-increase that you want.

And we're going to cover our bases and getting the college football playoff. That would have a bonus effect, just like it did when Fox got the NFL. They had a bonus effect of legitimizing them. People don't remember what happened with Fox when they got the package. It legitimized their whole network, but people were too old, and we were old for that, and it weakened someone else and makes you stronger.

So getting this college football playoff as it's about to expand 12 with an eye toward expanding further, which I think will happen, because there's an unending appetite for college football. Why would you say that it would not be a good business move? I think it would be a better move than regular season NBA on TNT where people are more interested in Shaq and Ernie than they are watching the actual games. No, the revenue they drive from the NBA playoffs and the regular season NBA, it would far exceed the revenue they would drive for what will turn out to be what four eight like 11 games for now could be more 12 teams currently are projected for 2024 2025 in the playoff yeah but no I don't think it does

enough for them it'll cost it's gonna cost a half a billion dollars to get that package and I would say that money and be spending it on the NBA. But give me the argument for spending that money. Spending the money on the world, not on the world, on the couch football playoff. Well a bit of background for people who don't know, John was the one who ponied up all of the money for the NBA in a joint deal with Warner Brothers Discovery who got the other parts of that deal. With the NBA.

Yes, but no, no, we actually negotiated together. The NBA actually gave us permission. David Levy went to the T and I negotiated with the NBA together. We, we, um, wonked it. They're not to be a third package. And we conspired together to pay them enough money to take the extra games they would have put in the third package. We were the incumbents, remember. So just as TNT or I'll use that instead of

one of those discovery, just as TNT and ESPN have the first right to negotiate, which will last from now through April, I do believe the NBA will come out of that. And whether the, by the way, you were suggesting that there might be some leverage for TNT to say to the NBA, oh, we can't afford to pay, the NBA doesn't care.

And shouldn't care. By the way, the fact that you bought a boat and now you want to buy a house, it's for more money than you can afford. The person who owns a house doesn't care that you can't afford to find. But they're gonna sell somebody else. They can sell somebody else.

And that was my only point. And they have plenty of buyers. So more so. You would not have been allowed to conspire had there been today's media landscape. The NBA is Adam Silver. Well, I'll ask, if you're Adam Silver, are you giving anyone the right to cons is Adam Silverwell, I'll ask. If you're Adam Silver, are you giving anyone the right to

conspire right now? I'm not. No, no, this was a different time. It was good for everybody because we were going to pay them significantly more money for us and TNT to continue to have all the NBA other than the regional sports networks. And now the landscape is completely different. I cannot imagine they would do anything like that.

In fact, I think they'll probably come out. If I was at ESPN, I would try very hard not to let it come out. I would try to renew the deal. That's going to require them paying an enormous increase. Whether one or roses' cover can afford to pay that enormous increase, I'm not sure. The equivalent here is when you're a free agent and you and your agent make the decision,

are you gonna resign with your team or are you gonna test free agency? And that's what the MBA is thinking about. But what is not mentioned is when agents and players decide whether to resign with their team or test for agency. They've tampered with the other teams. So you see exactly how much money is going to be available to them. I would assume if I am running the MBA

and I am your good friend Adam Silver, in a vacuum, I'm not letting anyone renew unless I know that I'm not getting more from the competitors. So you mentioned the Regional Sports Network competitors. So you mentioned the regional sports networks. You've mentioned the changing landscape of how it's different now. You mentioned agents working angles. And now we go to Washington DC, right? So this story, I want to hit this quickly relative to how we've been

pacing ourselves. But Rich Paul, agent partner of LeBron James and Drey Mungreen and so many other players in the NBA and now in the NFL as well, he says that the collapse of the regional sports networks is good for players. He said this in an interview with Semaphore. And it's good for players because this is a form of player empowerment. When you are selling subscriptions, I'll translate his words here. When you're selling subscriptions directly to consumers, you, the Washington Wizards, for

instance, are selling games, individual games, deals with your customers. It's only going to make a LeBron or a Dremond who he names. No, I wouldn't even name him. Yeah, just to accent, you know, who knows? What a joke. But these would help drive demand for subs. And David, to that you say. I say there's gonna be a problem in that union

and that makes me happy. Because Rich Paul is talking about the top 1% of the top 1% of the union that could possibly make an owner a care to give him money in order to maybe drive direct to consumer prices for my digital product. But the entire stable of Rich Paul's players maybe only represents the elite of the elite.

And so it doesn't care, but there are agents out there who look at the death of regional sports networks and the possibility of lowering of the cap is a real problem for their players because they have, I guess, what I would call normal, run of the mill players who don't ever get to attain LeBron status. I think this is nothing more than a case of someone suggesting that something happened was good for what he represents. I'm gonna suggest that the death of the Reginald's

Force Networks is outstanding for Metal Arc. This is gonna be a big moment for us, because without Reginald's Force Networks, there's gonna be this need for content that we can... And that's what did it, the death of the Networks. Because before that, there was a dearth of need regional sports networks is going to be this need for content. That we can. And that's what did it, the death of the networks. Yes, pretty much.

Because before that there was a dearth of need for content. It's what he should say, because that's how he makes a living. He is standing up for his players publicly. He's selling his book, which I just came out. And but it, the regional sports networks teams are not going to sign players because it's going to allow them to drive more subs. They're going to sign players who they think can help them make win a championship. But of course the counter to that is the messy signing where I guess Jorge Mase Miami signed messy saying you know this

is going to drive. I don't know how we're going to monetize it quite that's right. But now the leagues because met because Jorge Mase cannot monetize messy the way that an NBA owner can monetize a player because the rights which you want everything to be global, right? Rich Paul is not going to agree with you. You want everything to be national. You said that last week, right? NBA, every no more local games all national. So in that instance, then that would have a negative impact on Rich Paul's players, because why would an owner care if he has LeBron or LeBron Jr. because he's getting his money nationally, not locally? Well, I think we're confusing things. People own teams and they buy players to try to win

championships. I don't think they're thinking about signing players relative to the media right to deals. So the messy signing was not relevant? Well, no, but the messy signing is a, is sweetenerous, right? I mean, there's not anything the NBA could do that would look like that. I guess they could send LeBron to the Euroleague

and it would have some kind of effect. If the Euroleague were to suddenly start selling subs, yes, having LeBron would help. Yeah, but I'm not sure it feels confusing to me. I'm not sure that that's the way people sign players. So where I'm going is what Rich Paul, I'm trying to explain what Rich Paul said is so preposterous. He's saying that because everyone is doing this streaming, these deals, where it's 1999 a month, or seven bucks a game,

that the way to get someone to buy it is by having a star player. Therefore, star players are gonna be empowered to go to teams and get paid more money because owners are gonna want stars. But is it team gonna get a higher salary cap because there's got their own subscription service? Are they, I don't they have a salary cap?

All, all I know at the very end here. Yes, of course. Is that what they have in the present tense are Alex Ovetchkin, Elena Deladon, and Kyle Kuzma-Bobblehead's offered to the first 10,000 subscribers of the Monumento Sports Sub. Yes. This is funny to me offered to the first 10,000 subscribers of the monumental sports sub? Yes, this is funny to me because they would get 10,000 subscribers without a bobble head So they should give it to the last 10,000 because that was the ones who are the hardest to get

You're just giving it away to the 10,000 people who would sign up anyway and that to borrow Dr. Susan at the end is how the Grinch still Christmas. So, David, John, we're at a time, we could do this forever, but until next time.