The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - The Best of SBS: MLB Legends

Episode Date: October 16, 2025

The World Series is nearly set as the Los Angeles Dodgers face the Milwaukee Brewers in the NLCS and the Seattle Mariners take on the Toronto Blue Jays - we look back at the legends of baseball that have hit South Beach Sessions with Dan Le Batard. The Mariners legend Alex Rodriguez takes Dan through the highlights of his career and the truth about his relationship with Derek Jeter. Then, Frank Thomas looks back on his legacy - a first-ballot Hall of Fame career, and the biggest moments from his dominance in baseball. The voice of the Cubs and Sunday Night Baseball, Jon 'Boog' Sciambi joins to talk about how his love of the game comes through in every broadcast and the legendary voices of MLB that have shaped his career and how fans remember the biggest postseason moments. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I am very excited that this man is in studio with me. I have known him since he is 17 years old. Since he was drafted, I was at his mother's house, his sister was making eggs, and he was just a young man trying to figure it out. He is now, one of, if not the best in the athletes in the history of South Florida, one of the best baseball players ever,

and a media tycoon and a business tycoon. You laugh at media tycoon, but I don't know a lot of people that got to work, especially after having some sort of controversy at both ESPN and Fox at the same time. I don't think there's a lot of precedent for that. Thank you for being here with us, Alex. What do you regard in your baseball career as the happiest time?

the best year, the best six months, the time that you were, because it doesn't sound like any one of those years might be as happy as your best year now if you're sort of slogging through it, trying to figure out what happy looks like. Yeah, I think, I would say two. I would say when I got the call from George Steinbrenner that he wanted me to join his Yankee team

and to come team up with Derek Jeter and agreeing very quickly that I would move in the prime of my career as the better shortstop. Why, just one thing. I'm saying that for you. You don't have to say, but you were the better shortstop, you know, by the metrics, and you moved to third base. You went to third base because he's the captain and it was his team.

Well, and I think Derek could be the first one to tell you that if he came to Texas, he would have moved to third. and, you know, respect is something that I believe in. I gave him my word that I was going to play third base and third base only. And I just said, made it very clear. I said, if there's ever a conversation about me going back to shortstop, I'm going to go back to Texas because I wanted to honor Derek, and I didn't want any drama around the position.

And I went over and worked really hard at third base and became a suitable third baseman. So I think George calling me over, Steinbrenner, and then obviously 2009, bringing the World Championship back to New York for the 27th World Championship in one of the most franchised. After struggling in postseason, in pressurized post seasons. Like after year after year,

you're one of the best players in baseball and now people are, you know, accusing you of mental frailty because baseball's hard and sometimes people hit 200 in a 14-game sample. Dan, I don't see it that way. And again, this is where I think having some space from that. that time. The truth is, when you're one of the best hitters in a lineup, you get circled.

And they come at you with everything they have. And sometimes the best thing you can do in the World Series, I think Gary Sheffield did a nice job of this. And Barry Bonds did too. You got to just take your walks. And once I realized that it wasn't about me and it was about we and it wasn't about what my stats were, but I would literally drive to every playoff game with Andy Pettit because he was my neighbor in Westchester, and he would help me out, and he was this time a four-time world champion, and he pitched game six, which was a game six that we won. He pitched great game game and handed the bottom Moriano against the Phillies, and Victorino made the last out, Granada Cano, Tuticcira, the Yankees, a world champs for the 27th time, as Joe Buck said.

It was incredible because it was like a master class. from one of the greatest champions that I've ever met in Andy Pettit, where he would talk to me about hitting, pitch selection, what the opposition was thinking as they were facing me, and then I would reverse it, and he would ask me, okay, what do I have to do to beat the angels, to beat the twins, and ultimately to beat the Phillies? And Dan, it was some of the most enjoyable hour conversations

driving to the ballpark, no phones, just old-school conversations. And he really helped me become a champion. What do you regard as the most honest, accurate appraisal that you can make of the relationship with Derek Jeter? It's a long time, it's complicated, I don't know what can be known or what can't be known, but when I ask you honest and accurate that can be said publicly, what happened there? Well, I would just say that right now, we're in a great place. He asked me to go to dinner about a year ago, almost today, when his documentary came out,

and we went to have drinks right near our home in South Miami. And we sat down for a couple of hours and had some drinks and, you know, talked about a lot great things. But our history is rich and goes back a long time. We met when I was 16 and he was 17. We met at Mark Light Stadium. And he had signed with the University of Michigan. I had side with the University of Miami. So we had a lot of commonalities. That's where his agent, Casey Close, who still his agent, was trying to talk to me before I chose Scott Boris. And in that 30 plus year history, we've had some ups and we've had some downs. And I think the media was obsessed with our relationship in New York. It was a very meaty story in negativity cells and big names sell

and the Yankees sell and the controversy around the position sells. So it was a mega media story. And he did a nice job of being super disciplined. I wasn't as disciplined. And it created some noise, but through it all, what I remember is great player. He was. A good teammate. We won a championship together. And now we're teammates again at Fox doing playoffs and World Series every year. Were you at all surprised that that phone call came that he wanted to just have dinner and drinks? Is it something that's unusual? Or is it because this plays out publicly? There's a lot of, there's so much vanity, there's so much insecurity. I don't even know if you're documentary, well, if he's got a documentary, I got to have a documentary because I had a pretty good

career too. I don't know how much competition there is between you and I don't know what your issues are with the media. Like what the issues, I'm curious what you think is the worst thing about sports media because we can be parasitical. Yeah, so, so I mean, I think that his documentary was fun. It was good to watch. But in many ways, it was up into the right. I mean, there was a lot of celebration. Mine is going to be a lot of volatility, right? So completely different. More interesting. No, no, no, no. Volatility for sure. I'm saying more interesting. If negativity sells, I'm going to say, if volatility is better than just up and to the right all the time. Well, yeah. So, yeah, and I think, look, it's interesting. When I was at my first

a couple of years at Fox. You know, Dan, I got a much better understanding how the media works. And in 15 and 16, I was still playing while I was with Fox. And I said, holy smokes, I wish, and this is an advice that I would give to all athletes that are listening, especially the young ones. I wish I would have done a media internship with Fox for a couple of years when I was in high school to then reverse engineer and understand how the media works. I played, because I was very, I was an infant when it came to.

dealing with the media. I just came out of Westminster Christian. A few months later, after my high school prom, I was at Fenway Park as an 18-year-old when I should have been a freshman at the University of Miami playing quarterback and shortstop. I was facing Roger Clemens completely over my skis. My knees were shaken. It was the first time I saw an upper deck. I mean, we had 400 people at Westminster Max, right? So it was a lot of growth. It was like turbocharged, and I just was not ready for that. I don't know if any 18-year-old could be ready for that. Maybe LeBron, I mean, he did a great job. Kobe, these are all guys that I'm friends with.

Tiger Woods came out early. But I think all of us that came out early, there is one common theme. We had some ups and we've had some downs. What came with money that you weren't expecting? Freedom. Eyeballs. Jealousy. Anxiety.

Bill? Yeah. Why anxiety? Why anxiety? Because, again, you know, from the age of 10 to 17 when I became a millionaire and the Mariners made me the number one pick in the country. And my mother and my sister, Susie, negotiated a $1.35 million contract. I didn't have lessons in life on how to distribute, how to help out my family. who gets what, what to save, what to spend, what to invest in. This is a new territory for me. I was training to be a baseball player and I was barely keeping up with that. If you think about it, most people, if they're lucky enough to make a million dollars, usually it happens with a college degree, after marriage, kids, maturity, and usually you're in the other side of 40. Here I am at 17 with here's a million dollars.

Here's fame, here's expectations, and then you've got to go deal with it. Jealousy, what did that bring? What does that look like? What is happening that is making you feel that jealousy goes before anxiety on something that money brought? I just think, you know, the higher you go on the flag poll, the more people are taking a look at your back end, right? and there's more chatter, there's more conversation. You have to be, you know, careful, spend, you know, a little bit more low-key. Things that you don't really, you're not prepped for it.

And when you're, I mean, you saw it. I mean, you came to be a star very early on. And you have a much different perspective today than when you were in your. Oh, I didn't know anything. No, I didn't know. I didn't know anything. We're going and learning at the same time, right? And we're trying to do the best we can.

And generally, we're good people. But and what you're doing, though, requires your obsessive, compulsive. attention in a way that sort of so lopsided that other parts of you atrophy. I don't even know how functioning and balanced a human being you can be and great at sports the way that it took as much work as it did to be as great as you were at that sport. I mean, the obsession has to be like, you know, off the charts. And usually when you look at the great ones that have done great things, you have to be obsessive. You know, you have to work on a 20 you're thinking about it. It affects your sleep. You've got to wake up and work out. You've got to

keep producing. This whole thing about work balance, I've never seen one at the highest level be really good at that too. Maybe that comes later on in life, but I remember my conversation with Kobe, conversation with Tiger, Jordan, Magic, LeBron. We've all had this drive that in many ways is probably not the healthiest approach. Warren Buffett, too, or does he have something, I mean, he's older, so does he have something that more resembles balance? Has he arrived at something that's different than that? Warren Buffett is the most obsessive and most focused,

smartest and simple thinker that I've ever met. He's a perfect example with Warren Buffett. he's a perfect example of, you know, the most obsessive, relentless, focused, unwavering conviction to what he wanted to do. His father would drop him off when he lived in Omaha as a young child. By the age of 11, he would drop him off every Saturday and Sunday in the library. He would spend all day there. And Warren read every financial book in the library by the age of 11, made his first investment

around the age of 12 and has been obsessed ever since. And you do this, and Warren does this. I believe he's the greatest, smartest financial mind alive. He's in his 90s. He still goes to work five days a week. He said, my only adjustment, I used to read nine hours a day. Now I'm able to read three or four hours. And now he studies a lot in YouTube.

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For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.co slash audio. Limited time offer. Hello and welcome to South Beach sessions. I'm excited about this guy. I've admired him for a long time. I've told him so for a number of different reasons. Two-time ALMVP. He's a businessman now. He has been great as a broadcaster, but his baseball excellence makes him super unique. One of five athletes anywhere that has a statue at both his college baseball excellence and his professional baseball excellence. Frank, thank you so much for making the time for us. That's a pleasure, Dan. Thanks for have me to say. You would have preferred to end your career in Chicago with the White Sox? Yes. No knock on Oakland or Toronto experiences. Oh, I love those experiences. Don't get me wrong.

I'm so happy I had that experience at Oakland because it revived my career and probably got me to the Hall of Fame. Toronto was a great experience. You were already in the Hall of Fame. I just wish I had more to give to Toronto because that organization was first class. They treated me like a king and I gave me everything I had. I just hadn't gotten old in my, you know, arthritis in my ankles. I just couldn't do what I could do early in my career. So hats off to Toronto. They were patient with me as long as they possibly could.

Yes, I could have gave them average numbers, but like I said, once you set the bar so high, people not looking at you to give them. Stop, apologize. Well, no, when you said that, but you're 40, come on. I know, but when you set that bar so high, people can't understand you've been an average player. They can't. Okay, you were close to 40.

Yeah. Come on. But still, they still want a break. They still wanted big numbers. I mean, my last, but my first in Toronto hit 27 home runs and 96 RBIs for a 39-year-old. I mean, that's pretty dang good. It is pretty good. They should be happy with that. Yeah.

Were you made sad by Oakland losing baseball or everything happening in Oakland at the end? You know, I'll be honest, it sucked because that fan base is tiny, but they support. You know, they're screaming to yell at the top of their voice every night. I understand it because it was time to get rid of that stadium. It's time to move up. And I think going to Vegas will be a special moment for the organization. I do think half of that fan base still will support, and they will go to Vegas because it's a good time and it's close enough that they can get there, spend three, four days, go home,

and it's drivable. So I really feel Oakland having a big-time situation like the Raiders, like the WNBA team, and the Golden Knights. Trust me, I lived in Vegas for 15 years, a special town, and they care about. sports 24-7, they're going to be fine. I just really feel the backlash is they lost the Raiders and they lost Oakland. A is going to be tough for the city of Oakland. And I, you know, I feel bad for it because I joined the city of Oakland and they revived my career. So yes, they were the best, smallest crowds I've ever seen in my life because it didn't matter. The energy was unmatched. You're a champion. So you're saying the time in Oakland was the most joyful time.

I'm not saying necessarily the best time. It was my favorite season of my career. It really was. I had a young team that re-energized me, guys like Nick Swisher, Bobby Crosby, Jason Kendall, Milton Bradley, who was crazy but fun. Who else I had on that team? Jay Payton. I mean, we just had a team of guys that just care Mark Ellis. I mean, those guys really cared about playing the game. It wasn't about money out there. It was about winning. And I had fun with those guys, and they just needed Mark Conte, who's managing now. you know those guys were special guys and that's why we played so well and i'll be honest with you i think we could have got to the world series that year if we didn't have that five-day layoff like these guys about to have to start a world series now it's crazy though to say that that season was your happiest

ever when you're a champion every time i ask an athlete uh what was the most fun you ever had they do some revisionist history and they say the year that i won the championship because they got the ending right doesn't mean that the whole year was fun up until the ending it's crazy to hear you have a non-championship year as your most joyous year. But it makes sense. Honestly, I mean, what Billy Bean does out there and what Billy Bing did that year, I've never seen a general manager, bring guys up ready to perform. I don't care how young they are. They can come pitch seven in it, send them back down, bring another one up, bring a bat in who could do something to help us. We had a team full of that, and we had Ron Washington at the third base coach who made the game

fun daily. I mean, I've never been around a coach. People like, what's the magic of Ron Washington? Just think about this. I'm always the first. guy there every day and he's always the first guy there. Ron was sit there with his long white underwear with his cigarette, gets you going every day. What happened to you last night, Big Hurd? A boy stuck until you. And he was run and laugh, you know, but that's the motivation he provided on a daily basis. I had fun again, man. A lifer, a baseball life. I had fun again. And that whole clubhouse was like that. It was about winning. It wasn't about who's got the biggest check. It was about winning. And we didn't care about anything else. We had a lot of fun. And that's why we had a great team.

That's cool. Do you have a best Milton Bradley was crazy story because there are a lot of those. Yes. There are a lot. I had a great one. Well, Kid Mocka was sitting there at a seventh inning one day. Milton had a bad day. He had struck out three times already.

He walks off the field, goes up to clubhouse. He said, I'm done for the day. And I was like, what, man, you can't? I'm done, I'm done. So he walks up to the clubhouse, took a shower in between an inning. We were like, we had to start an inning. And no one was in right field. He just quit.

He just went home. And Mocker was like, Frank, Frank, I was a D. and go, I said, Ken, it's over. He's gone home. He took a shower. He's gone. He's like, what? So it was the long as in between any, because we had to get off the bench, warmed up to go to get out there. And that was the funniest milk and Bradley story by the time. He just quit. He just, he didn't quit. He's just like, I can't help you guys today. I'm done. I'm done.

I'm done. So you're saying he didn't quit. He was just self-aware. He didn't have it that day. That was unbelievable. It really was. I'm done for the day. You're not even mad. understand it. He gave you everything you had every day. He was a hell of a player. No, he had a little more there. There was a little more required of him that he was not giving you at the end of that day. Some days he couldn't get out of his own way, but I'm telling you, what a ball player who cared about playing the game of baseball. Let's go back for a moment to what you were saying about being in an all-white high school and just how you grew up.

I believe that a lot of people look at you and your physical size and imagine that a whole holy man reached into a crib and just gave you an assortment of athletic gifts. Amateur draft in 86, you go undrafted. And I would imagine that right around there, maybe a little earlier, is when Frank Thomas develops, again, observing from afar don't know this about you, a work ethic that he would put up against anybody. Yes, that really hurt me in 86, not getting drafted. I was best playing area, and six or seven guys out of the area got drafted. I had no idea what happened. know, as big as strong as fastest, I already had signed a football scholarship at Auburn University. I guess they thought back then, big guys like me didn't play baseball.

Tight end. Yes, they were like a football player playing baseball. I remember talking to Lake Cam Bonifay and Cam said, you know, at the time I thought you was just a football player trying to play baseball. I knew you could hit the ball consistently and hard, but, you know, didn't think you were in a bit of a baseball player. You already signed that football scholarship, we passed. And I was like shocked because they could sign me out of high school for anything. I would play baseball.

But Pat Dodd gave me a chance in football. They grew me up there. They worked my butt off. I got bigger, faster, stronger, toughen me up a lot. You know, I tell people, try to block Andre Bruce every day. As a freshman not going to college and a man,

it was in number one draft picking the draft. You grew up in a hurry. You would have been a professional football player. I could have played the NFL, but it wouldn't have been long. I mean, I just, you know, three years and out was not enough for me. A baseball, Pat Dye told me himself, Pat Ty retired me from football. He said, my team is, we're four deep in every position.

What I saw in the baseball field with you, he watched me for like two straight weeks. He said, I've never seen anything like it from a big man. He said, baseball could be your career. It could be 15 to 20 years. That's how long you could play at the next level with your size, strength, and athletic ability. He was right. So God bless him. Coach Ty made that decision for me.

He kept me on football football scholarship. He kept me there. So nothing changed for me and my family. He knew he loved my parents. Nothing changed. I just played baseball. you did get drafted in the first round after going to college but going back to being undrafted why were you undrafted if you saw six or seven players in the and it was like 50 60 rounds back

then i had no idea what happened i have no idea what happened the man upstairs had a plan for me and it was going to be bigger and better than coming out of high school because i never probably would have got that growth in the minor lakes you know you think about the physicality of the cc football been in that weight room, you know, lifting 3, 400 pounds, you know, growing up. Baseball became very easy after playing SEC football for two and a half years. What was the relationship in and around Bo Jackson there at the time? Well, Bo was, I didn't get to play with Bo, but Bo was a senior that year, and that's when he took the trip to Tampa Bay.

I was supposed to play my freshman year with Bo. It was disappointing because I had lived in Columbus. I used to go over and watch them all the time. I had never seen an athlete like that. Never. his speed, his size, the wave is a tenacity. I'd never seen anything like that on the football field. But I got to play Major League Baseball with him.

I just saw him last week. He still gives me a hard time. But Bow's my guy. I don't care. I told him last week, I said, you know, I love you. Even though you're an a-ho to me all the time. Why is he giving you a hard time? How can anybody be given Frank Thomas a hard time?

He gives me a hard time. Bo is Boe is a tough. He's a tough son of a gun. But you're a Hall of Famer, you're the big hurt? What do you mean? I don't imagine anybody giving you a hard time. Bull Jackson was probably the most athletic guy of our time, of our time. Football, baseball, could dunk a basketball, could do.

I mean, if you see him hunt and shoot a bow and arrow, he could do that professionally. It's like the guy, his gifted talent, I feel sad because I think we got robbed of seeing his greatness for a long period of time. But you saw him with the Raiders, you saw him with the Royals, just a mix of talent that you probably never see again. that he could do it all. He really could. Take me through now. You get drafted and you go to the minor leagues and you're feeling how about things in the, you're obsessed, right? Because you didn't really answer the work ethic question. There was nobody who was outworking you, right? That's second and none. My work ethic was crazy. I looked at like a football player my entire baseball career. You know, I would go in,

legs one day, arms next day, but it was like intense. And I wasn't blocking it. and 300 pound lineman anymore, but I cared about physical because I felt if I'm physically prepared, every handout coordination, all that came easily for me. So that's what you saw with me on the baseball field. A guy big, strong, faster than everybody else, basically hitting a small baseball. And that's why consistently I could do what I could do. But what was the level of obsession? Oh, I was obsessed. First got there, the last guy to leave. But I, like I said, working out wanting to be great. I've always wanted to be great. I didn't want to be good. I wanted to be great. And that pushed me my entire career. And that's why

I accepted, you know, like I said, from the media, because they knew how obsessed I was. So they were happy to take jabs if I go over four for a couple of days or over three, over four. What's wrong with Frank? No other players went through that. It was just, and I mean, I remember Jerry Manuel as my manager. I mean, that was his out most of the time. If team's struggling, Frank's got to do more, you know, because he knew I accepted that. You know, I was mad at him a lot of times, but he would do that.

And that would just send the media right to me. Like, what the heck's going on? You need to do more. I'm like, you know, okay, I'll deal with it. So we had a couple conversations about that. But, hey, I mean, he felt that a great way to motivate the team and get the team going. All he had to say was Frank need to do more. And I had a good time doing it some days, and some days I did.

This is the part I don't get, though, Frank. I keep saying versions of it seemed like it was hard to be you. And you're not taking any of victimhood there. You're not taking debate on that. No. Because I'm looking at it. I'm like, man, this guy could use some positive reinforcement. This guy, it would be nice if this guy wasn't getting all the pride he was getting from the stat sheet,

and it came from human warmth of he's being surrounded, but all you cared about was the admiration and respect of your peers, it would appear, and that you had. Biggest man on the field. You look at Aaron Judge right now, and I watch it, I just shake my head. I mean, this guy's put up astronomical numbers a year and a year out, and when he's in a slump, the world is stopped. He's not working hard. Something's wrong with him. What's going on?

Bo, blah, blah, blah. You look at his numbers. It's like, are you crazy? Are you crazy what this guy's doing? And I feel for him some time because I know he's going through that same thing and he's consistently done it over and over and over his numbers are ridiculous.

This, have you explored when you say I had to be great? Good wasn't one of the options. Have you explored what's happening there? Like, how much does that have to do with your dad? How much does it have to do in the childhood? Is there some not good enough in there? Like, what's happening that's making you

someone, it's not okay for me to just be good? I'm going to have to be better than everybody. Well, it's growing up with not having everything you really want. And knowing to be better than everyone else in the field, you can always have what you want. You can always, you know, fit in where you want to fit in by being that guy. And it drove me. It drove me to be obsessed to be great. I'm sorry.

I tell guys, I tell my son now, be obsessed with being great. And he is. It's kind of crazy. And some days I'm like, okay, just take a break. No, let's go. You know, that's where he is now. He wants to be great. So for a little Frank, I'm like, I'm coaching him daily.

Hopefully I tell people not to overhype your kid because I never want to do that. But what I'm seeing in watching them respond right now, I'm seeing this on a day-to-day basis. I think he's got a chance to be on a great one. I betrayed a confidence by saying that you said on the way in, I just can't believe it, that he might be better than me. And I know you probably don't want to put those expectations on him. I just couldn't believe you were saying it, though, like because there are very few who have ever been better than you. So the idea that your son would be able to do that was a bit jarring. Well, like, teachers are the same way I was taught.

He uses a line-to-line hitter, but he's a lefty, lefty. That's a difference. You know, he'll be hitting, you know, 60% time against right-handers, 70% time against right-handers. And that's just what it is. I just, I wish I got to hit lefties all the time. You know what I mean, you're talking about the numbers I had, I probably would have hit, you know, 36, 370 if I'd had left-handed hittings all the time, like a left-handed hitter against the right-hand pitcher.

So watching him hit and watching him hit and watching. and respond. Yeah, I mean, I don't think he'll be the power guy that I am, but I think he between 30 and 40, you know, but I consistently looked at myself as 40 to 50. And if they didn't give me that kryptonite inside fastball that far inside, I would have hit 50 consistently. So I tell people now, I watch the game and I'm like, oh, these guys are complaining about a ball a little down over the plate or whatever else. If I had consistently got that ball out of the plate, there's never, you know, that little box, that little shadow box there, I wish I got to got that ball in the box all the time for a strike. I tell you that right now. It would be unbelievable.

Your plate dissing was extraordinary. You, the idea of being great instead of good is as simple as I wanted things and there was real freedom. If I could be better at sports than everyone else, I could have the real freedom of getting anything I want from life. Yes. It's important. You know, I tell guys, you just want to be great. I mean, I didn't second guess anything. I just wanted to be able to say, hey, I'm letting on the table every day. And I did it for my family. I did it for my friends. I just wanted to be consistently great for the organization. I wanted to win. Well, first of all, it was about winning because I never really lost in my life. I always high school champions, you know, college, SEC champions. You know, when I got to the major league, it was

about winning. And I got to the White Sox, we were a dormant at the time. And within like five years, we were a team everybody was talking about. Winning the championship, actually winning it, joy or relief? It was sucked because I was injured, 2005. I played a little of a month that season. I had a huge impact. It had 12, 12, 13 home runs and 12, 13 home runs in like 30 days. But I knew that team was going to win the World Series.

That was the first time I looked at a team that had just as good as pitching as hitting, defense, relief. Everything was there. And I came back early. So I knew that I was taking a chance of coming back, refraction an ankle. The doctor said I needed two more months of hitting. But I told Herm Snyder that year, I said, Herman, this team's going to win it. I said, I'm not going to miss this.

I got to play on this team. And I end up playing. And then the rest of the year, I basically was a coach. You know, I really helped my teammates get better. So, you know, it was humbling. After driving the bus for so many years in that White Sox uniform to be in a bus rider that last down the stretch in the World Series, but it made me a better teammate. You know, like I said before, I watched guys sit on the bench all the time.

Didn't think much of it. But it's hard to sit on the bench and not making the impact that you used to make it and watch success happen. So, you know, Ozzy and I talk about that all the time. But I think it made me a better man. It made me a better person, better man. And that next year I went to Oakland, healed, I was able to do that because that year I helped coach.

And I helped coach a lot of young kids that helped get them better. Extra BP every day. We're out there working on things. Nick Swisher, he couldn't hit a change-up. You know, I would get him out there early, make him hit every ball over the shortstop head. And before long, he was starting hitting change-ups. And, you know, not trying to pull a yank.

He was starting to get line drives, hit 33 home runs that year. So like I said, I watched these guys. I had a lot of fun with those guys. And 2005 was really maturing and growing up for me. Your son is now getting all the joy of that coaching? Oh, yes, he is. But you're not coaching any, that's where you're coaching.

He's getting all of it. Yes, he is. I help other kids around if they want it. But I'm saying he's the one that's getting, he's getting, what do you regard as the greatest things that you've overcome in your career? Injuries. injuries i i tell people and then this is going to blow your mind all the numbers i put up were done

in 16 years i had 19 and a half years i was injured three and a half years of my major league career and i tell people everything i did was within 16 years so i look at my numbers for 16 years if i had those extra three and a half years of playing you know you're talking six something with you know crazy frank you're one of the all-time greats the way that it is people think i just played nine i didn't play 19 years i played 16 you know you're talking six something with you know crazy I played 16 full years on the fill. The rest of three and a half years, I was injured. So the injuries are just because my will doesn't help me at all here.

No. Usually I can will myself into. And football hurt me. You know, I had a bad ankle from football that started there. You know, I had ankle surgery out of high school. And then I had another scope job. So, you know, that hurt me down the line from playing football. So that's what little Frankie was like, Dad, I don't want to play football.

He's very good football. He said, I don't want to play any more football. He said, I want to play baseball only. So, you know, I'm here to cut up coach, but I understand, stand healthy is everything. If you can stay healthy on the field with great, incredible talent, you can do a lot of great things in this game. I don't think people understand how flatly inhumane, 162 games, and that travel schedule is, can you explain, can the big hurt explain how much pain he was always playing in? Because once you're in, at your size, once you're playing game 130 of a season, waking up in a different hotel. room, there's just a pain you get used to. Well, you start chewing towel and all like it's

tick-tacks and skittles, you know what I mean? But bottom line is, my first seven years, I didn't miss many games at all. You know, I was playing 161, 162 consistently, and it takes a toll on your body, and that's how injuries happen. But I always felt I need to be on the field. I don't care if I'm making a huge impact that day, but I'm taking pressure off the guys around me, and we've got a chance to win baseball games. But how much pain were you in? I was in a lot of pains. I played I played many hurt days on the baseball field. But that comes with football. So my mentality was, if I got a job at the first, but I'm in that lineup, it helps this team win.

So it helped, and it helped set a culture in our locker room that if I'm the biggest guy on the team who's doing the most damage normally is playing hurt. Other guys can't complain about themselves being hurt. With Amex Platinum, access to exclusive Amex pre-sale tickets can score you a spot trackside. So being a fan for life turns into the trip of a lifetime. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Pre-sale tickets for future events subject to availability and varied by race. Terms and conditions apply. Learn more at amex.ca.com.

The Hulu original series Murdoch Death and the Family dives into secrets, deception, murder, and the fall of a powerful dynasty. Inspired by shocking actual events and drawing from the hit podcast, this series brings the drama to the screen like never before. Starring Academy Award winner Patricia Arquette and Jason Clark. The Hulu original series Murdoch Death in the Family is now streaming only on Disney Plus. Hello and welcome again to South Beach Sessions. I've got a lot of notes.

I don't need any of them for this man. This man is my best friend in the world. He knows me like very few people know me. One of the things we're going to try and do around here is let you see more of my relationships with people who really know me and know me in the most intimate of ways. So I will tell Boog Shambi in front of everybody. I've told them all of this privately. I love you.

I respect and admire you profoundly. And I am wildly proud of you because you have done with your life what you set out to achieve 30 years ago when you were more anxious about these things. So Boog Shambi is with us. He's the voice of the Cubs and Sunday Night Baseball. Thank you for being with us. What do you regard as the happiest you've been calling baseball? Is it right now?

Is it because of, I mean, you've got a town that cares about its sport. You have the admiration and support of the organization. You have genuine friendships inside of the organization. I can't imagine that there would be a lot that would feel better than where you presently are. Yeah, that's great. I would say this is, this is it. I love it. I love just the energy of the place.

It's a special job. matters, you know. Baseball matters there and it's cool and it's still something that's important to me. Well, explain to people why and how you love baseball the way that you do because it's uncommon the way that you love this thing and love continually learning about this thing. Yeah, I think that that's what continued my connection to it. I mean, we used to get into arguments all the time and I brainwashed you some years ago when you would talk about. El Duque was clutch. I know.

He was clutch. He was clutch. Every time in a big game, he would be clutch. Every time happened all the time. Back in the day, it would be, it would be the, he would have conversations with Billy Bean, like right after Moneyball and Billy Bean would be like, man, Levitard really gets it. And I would be like, no, he doesn't. I told him.

You would. You would tell me all the stuff. I read Moneyball myself, but you've known, I've told you this before. I believe you could be the general manager or manager of a baseball team. I do. No shot. No shot. I mean, the level of aptitude that these guys have now is this beyond.

But I mean, I appreciate it, but it's, look, I loved as a kid, just the basic nature of the sport playing it. Both sides of my family liked it. Dad's side was Philly's fans, mom's side, Yankee fans, you know, totally. the story a million times. My grandparents went away on a cruise. I was six and I didn't understand what a cruise was. And when my grandfather sat there, you know, we're going to eat, we're going to gamble, we're going to dance,

we're going to play shuffleboard. And at the end of it, I looked at him and my only question was, how do you get the box scores? And he said, you don't. And I said, I am never going on a cruise. And editors, note, never been on a cruise. Not because of that, by the way, but I just haven't. So I

just loved it and then I it was the sport I wanted to call it was the one sport I didn't call in college so as I mentioned I go into the Marlins you know empty broadcast booth or a booth that was empty and call it into a tape recorder and then you know gave the tape to Dave O'Brien and then you know your buddy Jim Favola and then I went to Boise, Idaho and you know off we went but it's and then I think as it went on yeah the the the the the The sabermetric stuff, the guys like Rob Nyer and Bill James interested me and I got a chance to learn and understand and know more and more about the sport and then you meet different people. And I mean, there's so many smart, interesting people in the sport. I knew baseball. I was reading Bill James's baseball abstract with my grandfather when I was in my teens. But the level of aptitude that you had for this sport blew me away because you were learning from all. of these different vantage points and you are very good at accessing information and combining it and you're just an extra you're extraordinarily discerning person i liked getting a chance to learn

all of the nerd type stuff and then go to the baseball people that had the eye to see things that i couldn't see and then you kind of come and form some of your own opinions and that to me was and is still so interesting when people give you data and then that I have the access to the baseball people on the field in the front office on multiple teams that are sitting there saying, okay, but here's something you may not be thinking about. And it's just, yeah, you're just trying to be smarter. But you're always forever curious, too. That's right.

Like you, the fact that you have been at this now, what are we looking at? 30 years, Boise, Idaho was when? How old were you? So 96. Tell me about that experience, the minor leagues. You didn't have a long time in the minor league. No, I did a short season A, but I landed in Boise, Idaho, and I was waiting, and I was like, what did I do? Left Miami for it.

Yeah. And I did it for a half season. So, I mean, short season A is, what, 75 games? And I came back the year prior, or that year, I had been, I was doing talk radio here in Miami, and I was also the Panthers pre-interested. intermission and post-game host on the radio, and I would travel with them. And so, and then I would do my talk show on the road with Chris Moore. And so the Panthers, Wayne Hizenga also owned the Marlins, and I basically connected with the guy that did the hiring, and the next year they changed up the way the Marlins were

formatting their TV and radio broadcast, and the fourth broadcaster was going to be a pre-game, in-game scores, post-game guy, interviews, and eventually it led to play by play. But what was the Boise experience like? It was overwhelming. The reason I asked the question is you're in your early 20s, you're on a career path that you could have been doing sports radio for a really long time and had that be a successful career,

and you aggressively chose something that was both culture, shock and i imagine financial shock and all other kinds of shock yeah there was financial shock holy cow i i wasn't good enough and it it was just too fast for me i mean i worked with a guy named rob simpson um who's continued to work in hockey if you called rob up now he would say yeah he wasn't that good like i it just it was a lot i just didn't i didn't know how to do it and i it took time to learn how to do it. Was it a hard decision, though, to make the decision you made? You were, I remember the bravery in it, right?

Because I thought, well, he's established. He's on the correct path, but he's choosing something that matters more to him is also more difficult, but it's something that he will like more than what he's presently doing and take more pride in being excellent at it. It did not feel like a hard decision. It felt like just go jump at a deep end. of the pool. I mean, my job before coming down and working at QAM through a friend of a friend of a friend, I went and worked at a radio station in Bradford, Pennsylvania, WESB, and I went there because at

22 years old, I was going to have a chance to be on the air. Like, that's one of the things that's changed is that, you know, the mechanism for people, the avenues for people to be on the air now it's infinite back then it was harder to actually get up so i did news i did sports i board up the pirates games i covered you know school meetings all that type stuff um i also was the midnight to eight donut maker for one night at the top supermarket which is awesome just one night one night and it was literally like splattering grease and like with the chopsticks and it you know five in the morning i'm like i could do this for a month and i'll just put the money way by six i was like two weeks it's money at seven i was like okay so one week and i'll just

you know come in i'll get the check and i 8 a m i was like i'm never coming back here again and i never went back and i'll date myself but the joke is worth it for the people to get it i had told friends because i needed to supplement my income because i went there to do all that stuff on the radio for minimum wage that's what they paid they paid minimum wage and i uh i told all my friends that i was doing this and so i had an answer machine kids ask your friends or your dad whatever and uh they would leave me a message for probably 10 straight days at 1140 at night and it would so i'd be asleep they didn't know i quit and the message would simply be shambi shambi time to make the donuts they forgot you only did it for one

or they didn't tell them no i didn't tell them i quit i didn't tell them my bet uh when you say that John Miller called you after you did a game. What are some of the other compliments you have gotten from baseball royalty that are moving to you that make you feel like you belong in the pantheon of the best to ever do it in our most historic sport? Well, I don't think I feel that. I just like something like that just felt as sort of surreal that that he was reaching out like that. I don't, I guess I'm not. I'm probably not comfortable to say in that spot. What are you not comfortable about?

I mean, in terms of like, I'm trying to think of a compliment. I'm just talking about people who have, look, man, there are people you've admired. There's a craftsmanship to what you do. For those who don't maybe know the detail that goes into, a three and a half hour broadcast, which is what you used to be doing before baseball sped everything up, but a four-hour broadcast where you have to have this tapestry of knowledge

And you start with a mess and then you follow the game and make sure to fill all of that time in a way that's measured correctly, paste correctly, has enough interesting in it. It's a nightly work of art that, as you say, you never leave feeling like it was perfect. to have John Miller, who is someone whose style you've admired for a long time, who has a grace about what he does, to have that person call you after a thing that you've dreamed about for as long as I've known you. I know your heart's been broken in a couple of occasions where you thought you were going to call World Series games and you didn't get the chance to call World Series games. To have all of that happen, you are now guilty of articulating an inability to feel feelings.

So, sorry, I mean, the one other specific one that I can tell you was, I remember, I walked into Fenway Park, I'm going to say it's 2017, and I walked past Bob Costas, and he was standing there with a couple of people, and he kind of turned his, and I know him at that point, but he kind of turned his head, and he saw me, and he almost ran to me, and he said, John, I just want to tell you I was listening the other night and it was just incredible like listening on the radio and um yeah that's pretty pretty amazing for him to go out of his way to to say that was really uh yeah it meant a lot oberman too who has an appreciation for some of uh broadcasting's finer qualities uh overman is an enormous baseball fan huge baseball fan yeah big time but for to have these people tell you that you're great at what you do, surely you must then know that you belong among the people who are great at what they do. I get, yeah, I mean, again, I think that I'm, yeah, there's no, I think that I'm trying to

just find the, the piece of it inside of me. I guess I, yes, it feels nice. I don't, I try not to, I don't want to focus on that stuff too much because I think in, in everyday life when you're when you need the validation of other people or you need you know another one back to you know our original stuff about you know just therapy and peace in your mind when you need other people to get your perspective like you give your power away and it's really dangerous when you need that and i have that i want to articulate my last point you know when i did standard sports talk radio i wanted to convince people i really did

And I wore it emotionally at times in a way, you know, when they, they wouldn't be convinced. So, and I think that letting go of needing someone to, you know, the one thing that I've been lucky about is, I'll say this. I think I feel like this is probably more what you're looking for. And that is, look, man, I don't love my body. I, you know, struggle with a lot of different things in the workspace. When I leave a broadcast and I think I had a really good broadcast, I don't need it to be told to me from anyone. And if 200 straight people came up to me and said, that stunk more often than not in my heart, I'm like, nope. That's how I feel about writing when I've done.

it correctly that it doesn't matter it's what it's why it's the most fulfilling thing to me professionally writing well because to to know that when i've met my standard yes if it's not unimpeachable at least i have the piece of knowing there's nothing you can say to me i know that you suffered it you suffer well that's the only way it would get like that though like it's not you have to i mean maybe all of this stuff comes i do have you met a broadcaster have you met a baseball broadcaster who makes it look easy and it was actually easy for them that they just get in front of the microphone and they didn't have to do all the 30 years of craftsmanship that you had to do.

Yeah, but I, I mean, but there's a pain that I inflicted on myself. I can't sit here and tell you that guys like John Miller or Joe Buck like suffer it. You know, I mean, I can remember, um, I can remember you having the conversation and they're, you know, different guys are different. You've asked Posnansky, uh, about, he loves writing. He loves writing. and then I'm blanking is it Gary Jones who's who's the guy Gary Smith Gary Smith who's you know probably probably the best takeout sports writer takeout like long form

storyteller I don't know the last 40 years wouldn't start writing until he had talked to at least 50 people but he didn't suffer it he didn't I mean I you know I've listened to you you asked him he didn't suffer it he did not suffer it uh there very few I have met who do not suffer it. Many say the same thing Hemingway says, which is it's as easy as cutting your wrists. But I do envy the ones who don't have to suffer it because I've always tied it to my process. It's why I've not been able to write a book. The idea of it is too daunting to me to sit down and choose suffering at this point in my life. But if it's the most fulfilling thing, can I possibly have it without the suffering? Yeah, no, I'm with you.

I don't want you to write a book either because that means I'm going to get phone calls at three in the morning and I'm going to be proofreading again. That's right. Those were the glory days. One of the few ever trusted with the ability to proofread. It still stings me that you didn't like that Edron James cover story that I wrote for ESP in the magazine. Still hurts in the places where I'm vulnerable.

You just didn't get it. I'm sorry. You're not. You enjoy holding that over me. Can you tell us a little bit, though, about where it is that you thought the path was most? difficult for you professionally um again i think in the early stages i really thought to myself i i'm not good enough and i don't know how good i can get at this so i think that there was that and now i'm talking about being a baseball radio guy i just i just didn't it didn't come as

naturally you know so so you know you focus on the knowledge et cetera but when a play is happening in front of you there's different you know there are different things and there's timing and there's flow and all the knowledge in the world and the ability to tell the story if the timing and the flow isn't on point and if you're not describing what you see in a really good way um then you know the rest of it's kind of moot so i yeah it was just i wish i could tell you when it started to feel like i got this um it did happen and you've lived there for a while as far as far as i can tell it's been i feel like since you left the marlins you don't necessarily suffer the over preparation stuff and that was how many years ago yeah my last year at the marlins

was 2004 so yeah i sometime after that sometime after that but i think yeah it just it took a while and it i tell you the other thing is uh mike ryan and i were talking earlier about just kind of the, you know, about you and I possibly doing a show together back in the day and, you know, that I was chasing my, you know, my dream, my passion to do play by play. But one of the things is that I got more comfortable later in my career just doing me. So that, you know, I always talk about like to young guys, what's hard is you just, you've got to get comfortable with the mechanics. but what you're trying to do is take what you're like on the air and take what you're like off the air and you want them to be as much the same thing as possible that you're willing to make the jokes

and say the off cup thing that you think isn't supposed to be the domain of play by play. And so like I didn't think, like I felt like I got better when I turned 40 because I got just a little more comfortable with who I was on the air and that you're, really getting me. And so I do think that one of the components of the connection to baseball and baseball fans is every day. But I do think the way people react to me is in part about that I'm able to bring authentic me to the air. And so they feel like they know me. We are about halfway into the football season, and we've seen most of the celebrations that the players do after making a good play.

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