The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - The Big Suey: 13 Seconds

Episode Date: November 15, 2023

Dion Dawkins embraces body positivity, JuJu Gotti is furious with the Buffalo Bills for scapegoating Ken Dorsey, and did you remember the Bengals made the Super Bowl the year of the Bills-Chiefs game? Then, would Stugotz actually kill for Josh Allen to be his QB? And Jessica is doing some private jet tracking. Plus, Garrett Graff wrote the book on UFO's and is definitely not himself an alien. He explains what he's learned in his search for extra terrestrial life including weird junk in the sky, FOAF Tales, and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're listening to Giraffe King's Network. Welcome to the big suite presented by Giraffe King. Why are you listening to this show? The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan Levitard podcast. I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize for that. In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging. I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries

that if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys. I've done it. And now, here's the marching man to nowhere, that face and the habitual liar. A tweeter writes in, Stu Gautz, either overhaul the bucket of death or get rid of it altogether.

This bit has gotten so bad. Too many people doing it. Way too easy to take an L to the point that the punishment's carrying no weight. NFL is unpredictable and they have to pick games every week for 18 weeks. One person can easily rack up eight or nine punishments in one season.

We know that nobody is doing a punishment and no one is going to chase down multiple people with so many stupid, unpaid punishments. It's gotten so diluted. Gotten, gotten, gotten so diluted. I'm wearing sweat bed. Gotten so diluted. I've hated this thing since the beginning. Julie, you're got to give a commission there at 2024 and ladies and gentlemen. I'm Julie, Billy rules with an iron fist. I don't know what you guys are doing. I am willing right now to overthrow our government and put Ju-Ju in charge of the grid of death.

Because what Stugots is doing right here right now is pathetic. And it's not what I was supposed to do. I'm happy to do what I'm supposed to do. But no one, you know, gave me the stuff. They just gave me a sweatshirt, I mean. Well, I, and it's small. When I walked past and was told,

hey, we need to get a costume quickly for Stugatzi's gotta pay a punishment today. All I heard, I didn't know anything else, was we have accessories and he's gotta be shirtless. And I'm like, gold. And I wasn't talking about the accessories. I'm like, that is visual joke. I don't have to do anything today.

So guys, it's just gonna sit there shirtless. We can do anything today and it'll be successful. I never agreed to any penalty that had me shirtless. I would never do that at this age, at this stage of my life. So I'm like, okay, 30 pounds. Okay, so, but this is all, you have to understand my disappointment right now. Okay.

And let's go. Let's go real quick because I thought there have been a couple of things that have happened lately on the prime time football that we haven't gotten to. Okay. Justin Pugh saying during his introductions straight off the couch, excellent work in three seconds. Like you've got three seconds to introduce yourself to America. You sit there and you just say Justin Pugh, everyone else is giving their school. I'm saying straight

off the couch, instant star is an offensive lineman. Another thing that happened though this weekend or Monday night, whenever that Buffalo game was, is the Dion Dockins, an offensive lineman showed up at the facility and went through securities to God's. And I don't know what he was doing beforehand. I wish i had the confidence of this man to drive into the stadium shirtless he is a large man he is jingley and he got to work wearing sweats and and a t-shirt and i'm simply assuming i'm sorry no t- sneakers, excuse me, is what I meant to say. And he is shirtless. And I assume for some reason, not unlike Ron Artest one time,

I think he got locked out of his hotel and showed up at a playoff game in his underwear because he just took the team bus like on a corporate sponsored bus to the arena. I assume there's gotta be a great backstory here. This is not just a person who comes to these games like this every time. Is it? You assume that there's some sort of mystery as to why he decided to do this. This is a

super look at me. I think the reason is he just wanted to show up to work shirtless. And you would, if you looked like that, you think a lot of people have the confidence. Still got to sitting here telling us that because he's gained 30 pounds, he doesn't want to give us the visual payoff today of him sitting in front of that camera angle, shirtless, because the internet is forever and the internet is cruel and he'd want to sit somewhere else. I wouldn't want to sit there either. Outside. I wouldn't wish that on much of anybody around here, honestly.

He's an offensive lineman. I think there's an understood unspoken contract between offensive linemen and sports fans that you're supposed to look that way. Right. I'm not. Also, Bill's mafia gives you unreasonable confidence. So I see what's happening. Well, JoJo, thank you. I'm glad you're here because I think you were first this week to the trough of Fire Sean McDermott I was shocked you're a source of positivity You don't go around running around firing people, but you clearly are fed up because this man is just disappointing One of the great fan bases

Absolutely, I was the first to say it this season. I said it around week three Watch out for this man and he's done everything I said he would do. First of all, you got to scapegoat and Ken Dorsey. Josh Allen is one of the top rated quarterbacks in the NFL. He has the highest points for whatever the... He's very efficient. He throws the ball far and it's successful. They're all offensive. They top seven offense in the NFL too. You dig and he didn't send out 12 men at the end of that game. He didn't rush, he didn't send the house whenever it was third and long.

He didn't send the house when it was third and long and then it didn't begin on the fourth quarter. That team has a lot of injuries on the defensive side of the ball, but the questionable moves are coming from the top bit, brother. You can't get on camera and say it was my decision to fire him. When you been that goofy, sir, I would allow you. Please look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself,

is that a goof I'm looking at? And I think the answer is yes, unresounding. All right, all right. Put it on the pole resoundingly, not unre soundingly, resoundingly. You get to look at me with those beautiful eyes of yours. I get nervous about that. That's all right.

And you are fired up about this. And I understand because to got to imagine a lot of people are making the point today that if they hadn't had twelve men on the field dorsi would still be employed correct yes they would again one one would assume he wouldn't be fired after after a victory right that doesn't happen very often here's a here's a sad courtesy of mean a kind so we'll be making her return to our show this week. I'm excited about that.

The bill's offense through week 10, third in DVOA, first in success rate, third in EPA, fourth in QBR, third in Yards per play, second and third down conversion, third in Red Zone Efficiency. Here's a sad that you don't see toss around off and Josh Allen first and in receptions. They turn the ball over a lot

and it mitigates a lot of their great numbers on offense. They needed escape goat for this. As Juju pointed out, they've had loads of injuries on the defensive side of the ball. They've never been able to run the ball well. I venture to say they're probably running the ball with more effectiveness now than when they were with a hair's breath of the Super Bowl. So I think they just needed a scapegoat.

Ken Dorsey ends up being a guy because Debal isn't there so surely this is the thing that's changed with Josh Allen. Maybe Josh Allen's changed because we're getting a sample now where the outlier might be the two years where he was right up there gunslinging with Patrick Mahomes guy you'd want to build your franchise around the comp for Josh Allen has always been Cam Newton Has always been Cam Newton now he's following it to a T in terms of the dip only he doesn't have a car accident to point to as the reason It's kind of or see to the hurricane something that I should be worried about No, I don't I don't think so they they've had conversations joe brady is become has become

the offensive coordinator there i know he was a hot name in college circles but he likes a pro game like a lot of coaches he's just jettisoned himself away from the college game but yeah if you want to know it like in the group chat the the mime have already hired Ken Dorsi and Chip Kelly as analysts. I am tired of people getting on Josh Allen. I understand the turnovers. I do. I get it, but some of them are not his fault. Some of them, I'm not saying all of them are not his fault.

I would kill to have Josh Allen as my quarterback. I would. I'm a Jets fan. We've never had a quarterback to have someone that elite, that good, that athletic, I would. I'm a Jets fan. We've never had a quarterback to have someone not elite that good, that athletic. I would kill to have them. And I would venture to say just about every team with the exception of three or four right now today, which rate their quarterback for Josh Allen. So true. So got to hands are so big. And whenever they announce Trent Sherfield was our big offseason acquisition,

I looked at Sean McDerman instantly. Brother, what are you doing? And look at you now. Mike, I am gonna make a correction on what it is that you said and I'm gonna make a correction on myself that a lot of people made yesterday. You called it a hair's breath and I wanna know what that is

and they were a hairs breath from the Super Bowl and the place that I got it wrong yesterday and I think this is what you mean by a hairs breath. I kept saying they were 13 seconds from the Super Bowl. There was another game after that required to get to the Super Bowl, but I feel like we all watched at the end of that game who was going to go to the Super Bowl, Chiefs and builds and we all saw that the bills were good enough to be a champion. And I believe the Bengals actually made go to the Super Bowl, Chiefs and Bills, and we all saw that the Bills were good enough to be a champion. And I believe the Bengals actually made it to the Super Bowl that year, if I'm remembering correctly.

I think it is. Yeah, we made that game to the Mandela effect. We made that game, the AFC Championship, when I think none of the teams actually made it to the AFC Championship. Correct. Yes, forgive me, because I kept doing that yesterday. I took those 13 seconds left. And I'm not. I felt like it. But this is why I feel like they were a hair's breath,

which makes no sense. It's a hair breathing. But he's also right that you, you, I, they missed the Super Bowl. It was a hair. Yes. That makes no sense. Be careful with the silent bean hair's breath. A imagine a hair breathing and that was the difference between the bills and winning a championship that year in those 13 seconds according to me who's got his facts and timeline wrong. That is absolutely a Mandela effect in sports. It all blends together when you get to a certain age, right? Yes.

I feel like most people listening this. Now many of you rain down on my head the correction. Thank you for doing so. It's really the bettering I need. They love to do it. That's so funny. Thank you for the reminder that the Bengals made that Super Bowl. I think, I think I'm not sure.

No, the Bengals made that Super Bowl. Yeah, I don't know. That they better wipe the hands of city. They beat the cheese. And the McPherson, yeah. He guaranteed burrow or bell in. You show me another 13 seconds somewhere in sports that have that in it where most of you didn't know I was wrong.

Many of you did, but most of you are like, yeah, they were 13 seconds from the super bowl. I'm just learning this. And Dan just confirmed it. I don't even have to check the internet. That's how I remember it too. The sound would never 13 seconds away from the unemployment line if you don't get it again. Especially with Bella check.

I mean, he's out there looming. That'd be a perfect spot for Bill Bella check. I have a hard time explaining to our audience that this not this is not maximum over alert when all of us buck up on the firing of Ken Dorsey on behalf of Miami against those naughty awful bills. I just I'm always going to be in the tank for Ken Dorsey. I think it's track record with taking talented quarterbacks that were presumed to be more raw when they entered the league. Kim Newton totally changes a quarterback

when Kendoorce arrived as his quarterback coach. A lot of the credit to what happened with Josh Allen went to Brian Dable and I'm not taking any shine away from Brian Dable. But at the same time, Kendoorce came the Buffalo and became Josh Allen's quarterback coach. It's not like he's not doing his job well, their numbers are good.

This part though is fascinating to me. It truly is. You've seen all the people on the Bella Check Tree, right, who got an opportunity because Brady was great, and they parsed up the credit on why it is that he was great. Of course. So now you're running out of people to tell you when Dave Wells clearly, not some magician who can fix that you're running out of

people who made Josh Allen great but one of them trevon digs is here to tell you is his brother because we're now going to parse up the breakup and this is how the windows close on these things who gets the credit before everybody flees because Bella checks out their alone with the Patriots and it's like and we're just showing you know we're showing a doorbell camera video of him taking a shirtless walk of shame that guy used to be a genius big week for shirtlessness inside the AFC's Don Lebertard.

If I'm at the house with them and they're all rooting I could just be like yeah rah rah rah go Yankees. Stugats. You know unsettling would be if I attended a live sporting event and someone behind me was just going Rah-rah Brawns Rah-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h You see nothing funny, Roy, in the way that you are staring at me holding up a finger, telling me that we are starting our segment. And I am looking at more of your mouth than I ever get to see because you're wearing vampires, T. But when you're giving me the professional signal that we are starting

our broadcast, you don't know or remember that you're wearing these vampire fangs that are hanging out of your mouth, correct? So you are in the role you've been in for 20 years, but this happens to all of you on Halloween, right? You forget you're in the costume. Yeah, no, I remember. Absolutely. This doesn't happen to people. You don't think people are looking at you strange sometimes because you've forgotten you're wearing a crazy wig or something. We've established that you're the kinky type and you're often in costume. I guess I'm not in costume enough to be so comfortable that I forget. Because you don't serve any of your great of death punishment.

I've only lost twice. Did you call out Jesus and wrestling promo? I didn't see that. Nope. I went to my homeboy's birthday party. It was around Halloween and I dressed up as Batman And there was a lot of gangsters there, so we was watching the football At around the end of the party I Was in the middle of a whole bunch of gangsters with a Batman suit on and I was so embarrassed And I felt so lame. I just lived in my home with a plan like this a soul name. That's a little of my home with a plan. That is. Chris Cody, who is rushing in from somewhere late, writes in, to me, via text, I don't believe

Stugots would kill for Josh Allen. This is something Stugots said that if Chris Cody had been here, he would have called him on it at the spot. Right. How do you guys imagine, I want you guys to imagine Stugatze as a Jets fan. He now has to kill somebody in order to get Josh Allen as his quarterback. How would he go about doing this? How do you imagine this exercise would go? Who is the person? It would be me, wouldn't it? No.

No, it would be Zach Wilson. Oh, you killed Zach Wilson. You being the top five, but I mean,, wouldn't it? No. No, it would be Zach Wilson problem. You'd kill Zach Wilson. You'd be in the top five, but I mean, it wouldn't be. I think the NFL is rightfully knee jerk because one game, that's a 17th of your season. The sample size is skewed because it's a smaller sample altogether. But the reaction to Josh Allen's performance on Monday was toxic, rightfully. Not enough credit being given to Vince Joseph. This is a defense that gave 70 points up

to the Miami Dolphins. And over the last month, they've totally changed what they're doing. So credit to him. But I started trying to figure out where the tipping point was because when he was a hair spread away from the Super Bowl, which actually wasn't even in the conference championship

game against Kansas City, I think the general feeling was he's a top three quarterback. And that's changed some. And the one that I thought was the spiciest comp, I asked the Cowboy fans straight up coming after a great Dak Prescott performance. Who would you rather have? Dak Prescott or Josh Allen?

It's ridiculous. They said Dak Prescott. Right. Ask them after a bad one. Who turns over plenty as well? And it's his fatal flaw as well. The thing that we were discussing yesterday, Mike, is whether you can actually be someone, because they have changed stugots, the rules. Aaron Rogers changed this. That position can't turn the ball over and everything about winning in the margins where you see how close these games are. Still got there ain't no greater advantage than that one.

You keep getting the ball back. If you get the it's worth more than even the other quarterback being great because if I keep taking the ball back and I keep reducing the winning margins then all of a sudden that becomes the equivalent of a seventy yard passing a fear and calls to guys everyone's trying to get these five yards baker may feel being their way down the field trying to get seven yards trying to get to third and two but having the football the other quarterback gives you the football it's such a terrible flaw it's the worst one he can have

it's worse than inconsistency it's worse than he's not that good, but he's okay. It's what Josh Allen has, I believe, is something that keeps anyone who's ever been great at that position. Now from being great, you could throw 25 interceptions before. You cannot do it that way anymore. You will be James Winston. You will be coming back up quarterback. Dan He's not going to become a backup quarterback. I understand what you're saying He needs to eliminate the turnovers. We all understand that. I will remind you the Patrick my homes has eight Interceptions this year like Josh Allen has 11 the bills should have won that game despite the turnovers I'm in fumbles to those two guys. I i know almost also because he's running the ball all i've got at least a lot before they had an actual running day

don't just say i know when you're giving me eleven and he is the numbers over since two thousand and eighteen stuccoz like i'm telling you there's something here in the sport might just gave you the mean of kinds numbers this bills offense when he doesn't turn it over totally overwhelming can win the super bowl but that's not the bills offense what the bills offense is it does turn it over because their quarterback turns it over, totally overwhelming, can win the Super Bowl. But that's not the Bill's offense. What the Bill's offense is, it does turn it over because their quarterback turns it over. He is reckless, he is fun, he is swaggering, but it's a huge flaw that makes me tilt all

of the game's math in like, in a way that I'm like, how can you be great if that's on your resume? To your point, Dan, he does lead the league in fumbles. He's actually only fumbled four times, but he's lost three of them. Interestingly enough, Tuah has fumbled eight times this season. Crazy. And he has only lost two, so a little bit of luck there for Tuah. If the dolphins right now got a call from the bills and said, hey, we'll send you Josh

Allen. You send us two. What do you think? No, you got to look at the cap numbers. Right now you go with Tuah, even though you're going to have to pay two of, but the Josh Allen contract is up. I understand what you're doing, Stu. Got's we all fall in love with that at the quarterback position.

Well Dan, who doesn't want, but I'm coming at it. He's a galloping guy that's hard to tackle that is more of an athlete than almost everyone he's playing and he's got the most giant arm in the league. The craziest part about Josh Allen when it comes to evaluation is no one said that coming out of college. Right. That he's this galloping athlete that is basically Cam Newton, not the book on him,

but understand where I'm coming from. I'm coming at this as a jet fit. I'm coming at this as a guy whose best quarterback over the last 20 years has been Mark Sanchez. Like that's how I'm viewing this. And so yes, when I killed to have Josh Allen, probably not, I wouldn't kill. But I would love to have Josh Allen

as my quarterback because he's great. Even when he turns a ball over, they're still plenty to like about his game. Yeah, like you said, it's not taught about enough, the fumble handoff to James Cook and the crunch time, you know what I mean? Yes. He just has this habit. He has to get it out of his system some kind of way. the fumble handoff to James Cook and the crunch time. You know what I mean? He just has this habit.

He has to get it out of his system some kind of way. Juju, the other one that's not his fault, is he put the ball right in Gabe Davis's hands. Gabe Davis does that occasionally. Gabriel Butterfinger's Davis may have. That's a bad receiver. And that's another thing. We have no receivers outside of Stefan Dicks.

This is Elephant in the room. Yeah, he's a... I love the Buffalo Bills. I love the Philadelphia Eagles. I's his elephant in the room. Yeah, he's a, I love the buffalo bells. I love the filadofil eagles. I bleed green, I bleed blue. The only reason I ask on a Wii is because Peyton Manning caught Flax from his brother Eli, because he was on the Broncos, he was going us

and Eli was yelling at him. It's been eight years. And Peyton's got two usses. So you have two weas and Jessica has nine weas. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, I don't know have two weas and Jessica has nine weas. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, I don't know how many weas she got. I got one. But yeah, when the Buffalo Bills get a receiving core in,

you just said you had two weas, Freudian slip. Whenever the Buffalo Bills get some talent outside of Josh Allen, outside of Stefan Diggs and a defensive side. We will survive, but now we are goofy. Who are you throwing about? All right, well, you just said something, and this I don't think Boats well, as Kendorsi gets fired.

Jude just said, he's got to get this out of his system. That is not a cure for much of anything Your your analysis is not incorrect, but I don't know what he's got You said it's the truth that Brian Cashman says of stanton. This is a part of his game injuries or a part of his game This is a part of his system right, but it wasn't that one year I mean that's right that one year he had the two ofthing where he fumbles eight times and he only loses two of them yeah I don't think you're going to be able to keep digs this off season was a bit tumultuous with Stefan digs and look there always restructuring

contract contracts in the NFL Josh Allen just entering this year restructured his contract so they can keep digs on the books for this season. But next year, his base salary does go up to 23 million and it's a $47 million cap hit. When he's only an $18 million cap hit this year, again, the NFL salary cap is a myth and teams always find ways around this. But you're not gonna get more talent around Josh Allen.

You're gonna get more Gabe Davis' of the world. We have done way too much bills talk and I can tell because she can be accurate in terms of measurements on weather. When Jessica fades off into the land where she's tracking jets or looking up stories on what's happening at Panera Bread, we're about five minutes too long this week into bills talk and she is drifted off. Is it the Panera bread story? Is it the Jetshire Tracker?

No, I've been trying to find the NFL.com Josh Allen draft comparison because they always do like the player comps on that site. I mean, a lot of sites do it, but I can only find Kentucky, Josh Allen, not Wyoming, Josh Allen. And because Mike, was your point that the analysis was that he wasn't good on his feet coming out of college because I think that was one thing. What Mike Ryan was saying is we didn't get a whole lot

of what an amazing athlete this is on Josh Allen. I think the, the, the, the, the, the comp said I saw coming out of college, even though he's shorter was Brock Osweiler when he's closer to Cam Newton. I didn't see a lot of Josh Allen as Cam Newton. I saw a lot of Josh Allen as, was Brock Osweiler. When he's closer to Cam Newton, I didn't see a lot of Josh Allen as Cam Newton. I saw a lot of Josh Allen as the next Brock Osweiler. All of us were a little bit surprised because of the way Josh Allen was analyzed at Wyoming

and we hadn't seen him play. We did not realize, oh, wait a minute, this is a Justin Herbert type. This isn't just a big quarterback. This is a quarterback who, like Trevor Lawrence, will run away from your defense. That's not all of us were surprised the first time that very surprised. That he ran 60 yards with the football. All of us were like, oh, there's some Lamar Jackson there, but he's got 60 more pounds of muscle. It's why you get infatuated with

him. But Jessica, you have been obsessed with the Panera Bread story. Well, I've actually, can we go back to flight tracking for a second? There's been a lot of, it's flight tracking season, Dan. There's been a lot to track the last week. And I saw recently a screenshot. It's hard on Twitter now to verify what's real and what someone has photoshopped, because there was a Photoshop thing of Jamie, one of Jamie Chadwell's tweets yesterday that got debunked fairly quickly,

but a lot of people fell for it. And I did see a screenshot of a flight tracking of a private jet going from college station to Eugene, which people were, you know, oh, like they're trying to hire Dan landing, they're flying their private jet. And I still haven't been able to find it because in this Twitter era,

there's so, it's just so easy to let like, see, oh, it's a blogger for the site, maybe it's so, it's just so easy to let, like, see, oh, it's a blogger for the site, maybe it's not, maybe it's like, so a fake part, it's, everyone's a ball sack to me, Dan. And so I've been trying to track this flight for a while. To me too, to me too, Jessica. Not to me.

No, to me too. I want T-shirts made. Everyone's a ball sack. I am wandering through the labyrinth that is social media. And at every turn, I'm turning my right, there's a ball sack. I am wandering through the labyrinth that is social media. And at every turn, I'm turning my right, there's a ball sack. I got to be careful to my left. There's a ball sack. I'm scared of all of it. How I feel at work, too. I have my eyes on college station, though, if something big happens, mark my word. Okay. I've got my eye on

their private, private air. Who was on the, who was on the who's on the plane presumably like their athletic director but also it could just be some rich guy done lebertard for the range drops eleven drops and gun drops oh what a rain that would be still got standing outside with my mouth open wide uh... with my mouth open wide. A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A- I'm not totally sure how it is that as a country or as a globe we arrived as being anti-experties.

We like to undercut experts, we like to think we know more than experts. The person who's on with us now is an expert on the things that he researches and reports and writes about. He's done the oral history of 9-11. He's written about the JFK assassination. He was a Pulitzer Prize finalist for the history of Watergate. And now he has spent two decades researching and reporting on US intelligence, national security, and the military. Garrett Graf is with us.

Thank you, sir. I appreciate your expertise. You write in the book your definitive new book, UFO, the inside story of the US government search for alien life here and out there, that the government's UFO cover up has primarily been a cover up motivated not by knowledge, but of ignorance. You have spent two decades reporting this kind of stuff. What do we know? What does the government know?

So, I got interested in this subject in December 2020. Listers, maybe remember there's been sort of this sea change in conversations around UFOs, what the government now calls UAPs, unidentified anomalous phenomenon. Since 2017, the New York Times and Politico did have this blockbuster series of reporting in 2017 about how the Pentagon was reporting UAP sightings and had actually a sort of secret study program into UAPs.

And then in December 2020, John Brennan, who was just wrapped up nearly a decade as CIA director in White House Homeland Security Advisor, David interview where he said effectively, there's some stuff up there flying around. We don't know what it is. It puzzles us and I think we may find it constitutes something like a new form of life.

That interview made me sit up and pay attention because John Brennan's a serious guy and he'd been, you know, in the intelligence community for 30 years, there can't be that many things that puzzle him anymore. And if this is a subject that he's interested in, that he's puzzled by, that felt to me like a good story or a good topic for a book.

What do you feel like you learned? So I think there are a couple of things. So the book tries to both trace the military's hunt for UFOs here and the evolving science and astronomy of the search for extraterrestrial intelligence out there. So I think I end up with three broad conclusions, so I'm happy to sort of break down and talk more about. But the first is, the math is on the side of the aliens. Over the last decade, astronomers have come to understand

the scope and scale of the universe, and it's pretty convincing to me that there's gonna to be life elsewhere and probably actually a lot of life elsewhere across the universe. It's also probably too far away for us to really know, too far away for us to have meaningful contact with. At the same time, there is a phenomenon here on Earth that we don't know what it is. And it could be interesting and meaningful and important to solve that phenomenon, even

if the answer isn't extraterrestrial visitors. And I think at the end of the day, John Brennan's comment is probably actually true. The government doesn't know what these things are. There are layers to an actual ongoing government cover-up about its meaningful understanding of UFOs, but I think they mostly have to do with a cloak of secrecy around the government's own secret flight research programs and our understanding of adversary technology, you know, basically

sort of Chinese drones, Russian drones, and that the core of the UAP phenomenon, the government doesn't have any clue what it actually is. Garrett, I've got to tell you, somebody set off, and this is not me, okay, I'm betraying my staff here. Somebody, I heard an alarm go off in the other room that suggested somebody said it was their cook meter going off. And Billy back there is whispering in my ear while you're

talking, I don't believe this person has blinked the entire interview. So your information is exceptional, but people here are accusing you of- A possible insider. Just like what's in the wild. You being an alien, you're being an alien and you've been sent here to send this disinformation into the planet to scare us. In fairness at first we thought he was abducted, but now we think he's an alien. Still haven't played with it. Can you deny what they're saying?

So I think the math, as I said, is on the side of the aliens being too far away for us to really know. You know, that the scale of the universe is such that, you know, you go back 20 years, we had never seen a planet outside of our solar system. Now, we understand that almost every star in the universe probably has planets, and that there might be a 6-tillion habitable planets across the universe. That's a billion trillion planets that sort of fall into the habitable zone as we understand it in terms of, you know, the possibility of water, the right temperature. Most of that is so far away from us that we will never be able to have meaningful contact with it.

And then you get into some really profound and poignant conversations around this topic. Because to me, like the heart of this book, the heart of the story of our public fascination with UFOs, it's not really about aliens at all. It is this question of our humans alone. And to me, this is one of the three or four most profound questions of human consciousness and existence. It's up there like, is there a God and what happens to us after death? And so much of this story ends up being sort of about our own cosmic consciousness and understanding of our place in the universe. Should we be scared? So it's a good question. Not of aliens. I don't think, as I said,

I don't think that UFOs and UAPs are going to turn out to be alien visitors in the end. What I think it's going to end up happening is we're going to discover that UAPs are effectively four different categories of stuff. One is adversary technology being tested against us. The second category is basically going to be what we found with the Chinese spy balloon in February.

There's a bunch of weird junk floating around up there in the sky that we're not paying attention to on a daily basis. It turns out if you set the NORAD radars slightly differently, we end up picking up a lot of weather balloons and trash that then we send up the world's most advanced fighters To shoot down with quarter million dollar missiles and you know what we shot down in February in Illinois weather hobbyist clubs weather balloon over Lake Huron Then you get into sort of the two weirder categories that I think we're gonna find out turn out to be the answer to at least most of UAPs.

One is emerging atmospheric, meteorological, and astronomical phenomenon that we don't really understand yet. And then the last category is the actually weird stuff. And this is the physics that we don't yet understand. We think that we understand the world much better than we actually do. And the question to me is, what are we going to learn about physics in the next human lifetime? What are we going to learn in 500 years, a thousand years, 10,000 years, if our civilization lasts that long?

Garrett, I've got to ask you some questions, Ratatatat, okay, because you've dedicated your life. You've turned it over to a pretty epic search here on what it is you're trying to do. The book is UFO, the inside story of the US government search for alien life here, and out there, you keep calling them UAPs, but I see gratuitously behind you. And a number of books that look like they're all the same book, it doesn't say UAP there.

It says UFO because you're capitalizing on the salacious aspects of this. We still don't know for sure that you are human life for. Or if you blink. Or because of that, because of the blinking. But we've got a number of rat-attacked questions here. So if you could, in 30 seconds or less, which one sighting did you find worthy of your journalistic time?

The most interesting sightings are people like Lonnie Zamora, 1964, Sacoro, New Mexico, local police officer. He comes across a craft in the desert with two figures next to it that take off into the sky. He is shaken up, terrified by this encounter. There are other officers who respond and see him within minutes, see that he has shaken up. And there are good witnesses like this over the years, who are people who have no reason

to report and encounter, and actually a lot to lose in terms of credibility if they come forward with a UFO sighting. And so to me, answering what happened to people like Lonnie Zamora is the reason we should be paying more attention to this mystery. We talked to a Navy pilot, claims to have seen an unidentified phenomenon go from zero to supersonic mid-air. Aren't we supposed to believe whistleblowers from our military? Yes, and I think we should. And I think one of the things that bothers me as a citizen and a taxpayer in researching this subject, is that the military, the Navy, doesn't seem more concerned about the fact

that it has its personnel coming back from missions saying, hey, I'm encountering technology that I don't know what it is. The Pentagon seems to be taking this stuff more seriously. Why? When did that shift happen? The shift has happened over the last couple of years. Again, as you've had this new reporting come out and you've had serious people talking seriously about this subject, there is something real here. That's not me saying that I think that it's aliens, but there's

something unsolved that's worth the military's attention, worth the government's attention. Garrett, a couple more here, Ratatetet. Do you have any validation for Bob Lazar in his story? Bob Lazar is sort of a particular challenge. You see a lot of these people over the years who sort of come forward with what in UFology is called foothtales, friend of a friend tales, sort of people coming forward with sort of second hand knowledge about the types of things that they have seen. And I think we need to be really dubious

of the fof tales of U.F.ology. What we have not seen is people coming forward with firsthand evidence, documented evidence of an actual meaningful government conspiracy or cover up about alien bodies or alien craft. Glad you said that. What about Varsgenia, Brazil? Well, so I think part of the challenge is, I just don't think we have seen really anyone come forward with the hard evidence that we would want before we begin to think that the government is covering up meaningful knowledge of UFOs here. That this is a subject that I think the mystery is out there and I really just don't think

that the government knows. I don't know, the government seemed to be there very quickly when the guy with the alien took him to the hospital and then all of a sudden died mysteriously after two weeks and nobody's talked to his family. I don't know about that one. Um, so, you know, again, when you dive back into the history across 80 years, it's much more a story of the government failing to show up at all or showing up a week or two late than it is sort of the idea that the government has some advanced men in black team that they

are able to deploy on a moment's notice. What about that Mexican guy that had the alien carcass that Mayor may not have been a cake? I think on the spectrum I would put that much closer to cake than alien. Thank you. What a great sentence. Garrett, thank you for being on with us. So it's friend of a friend tales that we have to make fof tales. Just a fof tale.

Okay. You have allergies. All right, just to be clear, why didn't you call your book UAP? Because to be a big part of this story is the popular culture fascination with UFOs. When I sort of went back through this, what you see is this really intense feedback cycle over 80 years of UFOs actually sort of lodging in the public consciousness, driving government attention, driving public fascination, and then, of course, Hollywood

and pop culture sort of telling us what alien contact would be like. Garrett, before we let you go here again, the name of the book is UFO, the inside story of the US government search for alien life here and out there. When you dedicate your life to something like this, this grand in scale, my guess is it becomes a giant obsession, and wherever you're out in public, it becomes something of a conversation point. What percentage of people, when you start talking to them about this, say, get away from me, you cook, you're crazy, or 100% of them get illuminated and say, oh my god, I had no idea. Much closer to the 100% of the people get illuminated.

My experience is when I talk about this, everyone laughs initially, and then they lean in ready to talk about it. That a good lean in from that. Look, we still don't know if he's human, but that looked like his human. Hey, Wiggapeta also doesn't have a birth date on it. It just says he made 41 he was made before the two

we don't know how we just know that garrard is here with us and his book is you have both the inside story of the u.s. government search frail and light here just no easier and out there we know he's here with us we don't know what's out there and we know that he leaned in kind of like a human there but didn't blame it didn't blink didn't blink

human there but didn't blink. Didn't blink. Didn't blink.