The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - The Big Suey: Ask Dan Le Batard, Ask Jemele Hill

Episode Date: January 11, 2024

Dan continues to share the details of his relationships with Stephen A. Smith and Jason Whitlock and how, ultimately, he is to blame for all of this. Then, Lucy hates Michigan fans and gives us all of her takes on the CFP National Title game she attended before we dive back into the Nick Saban retirement story and how we've grown to actually sort of kind of like him. Plus, Stephen A. Smith told everyone to speak to Dan Le Batard and and Jemele Hill about Jason Whitlock, so after asking Dan Le Batard about Jason Whitlock, we ask Jemele Hill about Jason Whitlock. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're listening to Giraffe King's Network. Welcome to the big, sweet, presented by Giraffe King. Why are you listening to this show? The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan Levitard podcast. I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize for that. In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging. I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries, that if they're just there.

That hasn't happened to you guys. I've done it. And now, here's the marching band to nowhere, that face and the habitual liar. My grind plays some of this sound, because like I've said, I've only gotten it in bits and pieces, and I haven grind play some of this sound because like I've said, I've only gotten it in bits and pieces and I haven't heard most of this.

Yeah. So this sound is rich. There's a lot. We're still combing through a lot, but you made reference to the allegation made that Whitlock sent you and Isaiah Thomas, the former NBA player. Well, there's two former NBA players. The really good one. The Hall of Famer.

The Hall of Famer, the Detroit Piss and Bad Boy, to, uh, to go to Steven A Smith to get him to open up a line of communication back to Jason Whitlock. Here's that clip. The same Jason Whitlock. That guy is the same guy that sent both Dan Lebertard and Isaiah Thomas. Isaiah Thomas, the two-time champion in the Hall of Famer, one of the greatest point guards in NBA history, now working on NBA TV, that guy. That same Jason Whitlock sent those folks to talk to me. Please, is there something that could be worked out?

Can you forgive him? Can you talk to me. Please, is there something that could be worked out? Can you forgive them? Can you talk to him? My words and my promise to them was that I want nothing to do with him. I will never hurt him from getting opportunities, but I'll be damned if I'm going to help him by being associated with him in any way. Do you know why I said that, ladies and gentlemen, as black people? And I guess I was wrong. I should say at this particular moment of time, I was wrong to call him a fat bastard or a roach and all of this other stuff because that's not my name for him. My name for Jason Whitlock is religiously teen C-A-I-N.

You see a lot of black folks, we talk about how with the original man on the face of this earth, what that means, can was the original murderer because he's the one according to the Bible who killed Abel. That's Jason with lock. There is nothing good about him. Absolutely nothing. It's the livery makes it funny. I mean, he's the best at that. Whisper Stephen Asimith is my favorite Steven. Is that true? It is not the way that I understand how he arrived. And according to the conclusion, yeah, if he left handed, put it on the poll, please, that Levitard show is Stephen A. Smith's

hatred biblical. So did Jason Whitlock send you and Isaiah Thomas? Well, I don't know about the Isaiah Thomas story. No, this was not, that's not how that happened. I understand why Stephen A. would see it that way. And I'm fuzzing on the details of exactly why it is that Whitlock and he were beefing. I think it's because Stephen A denied that he had said the N word on first take

and Whitlock called him a liar and other things. And then I, because I knew Whitlock and I was friends with Whitlock, felt genuine remorse from Whitlock. And so I'm like, let me see if I can call Stephen A. Smith and see if anything can be repaired here. And Stephen A. Smith said nothing would be repaired here and don't even speak to me about him ever again.

Okay. So, he makes a reference to a deadspin article. Was that the impetus for all of this? Because I have here what I think is the strongest criticism of Jason Whitlock and this entire stuff, but you will just open up the door to skip to that. I do want to get back to your aspects of the story, but here is Stephen A Smith referencing a dead spin article that was basically a part of if I'm following this correctly, part of the start of this beef.

Did you tell them that once the same article in Dead Spin came out, weeks later, you wrote a lengthy apology to me in an email, begging me to forgive you, pointing out how you were betrayed by this particular writer so you know how I must feel that you betrayed me. Did you tell the folks that you did you tell them your fat piece of shit?

Did you tell them that? Got the names. We got your male hill. We got how a Bryant. You want me to bring up the other writers that wouldn't work for you? not how a Bryant, you want me to bring up the other writers that wouldn't work for you? Why it took you nearly two years to get an article out because you ran that shit so bad you were running it into the ground. All right, there's a lot of stuff here because it is possible and I had not heard any of

that. It is possible that Jason Whitlock got that job from Skipper because the one time I used Skipper's phone number was to vouch for Jason Whitlock as a journalist. This is all your fault? As a journalist, it might actually be my fault. That damn it, actually, would be my fault. White privilege.

So when this started dropping, Stephen A sent out a teaser tweet, and it could have honestly gone anywhere, and I reached out to you because I assumed, okay, today might actually be Jason Whitlock day for Stephen A Smith a day that he never, that he swore would never come. He tweeted, today is a day, I finally speak my mind about that no good fat bastard.

So I texted you just on the off chance, or you the no good fat bastard. Thankfully, you didn't think so. But maybe I am. Maybe is. Well, maybe I don't think Stephen A Smith knew it until now and I didn't know it until now. Okay. Well, this is important context because I kind of knew the scaburone defeated thing

and you vouching for Whitlock because you always vouch for Whitlock despite clearly my objections. I vouched for Whitlock as a journalist. No, all right. Well, he doesn't vote your name one more time here with regards to Whitlock and this might actually make the whole picture Complete here. Let's fire that up. I ask any of you connected to this industry from this point forward because I know my colleagues

They Don't want to touch this subject because he's a bully and Don't want to touch this subject because he's a bully and They don't want to deal with the fall out of him constantly coming at them. I Don't give a shit He came to the one I Know what he is. I have the emails. I have the articles. I have everything I once tried to befriend this dude. I don't talk to him because he betrayed me. As he has others, he's turned his back on Dan Lebertot. He's turned his back on all of those other

colleagues that I mentioned. Astro Mel Hill about them. As Dan Lebertot. As Chris Bussard. Let me stop naming names. Ask anybody in the industry. I can give you the names of the executives if you want. All of them. He's the best. He's so good, he's the best.

He's so good. He's the best. When his rage is righteous, he is the best. And he mentioned that he tried to befriend him. Jason Whitlock is the reason I was introduced to Bomanic. Jason Whitlock had mentored Bomanic. And again, Bomanic can speak for himself here. Bomanic does not talk about this person

because Bomanic is always dignity first. Like, and he will not fight with other black people in public very often. But, this was, Jason Whitlock was, and I need to be careful here because this is not merely a person I have cared about. This is a person, Jason Whitlock, that is recently a month, as a month ago,

and he's been slaughtering me and a lot of journalists I care about publicly for a long time. I called him a month ago several times, leaving messages just to see if he's okay. And I haven't talked to him in a long-ass time because some of this stuff hurts. My family knows Jason Whitlock,

my brother spent time with Jason Whitlock and we were friends. And I like to think that whether it's David Samson or Jason Whitlock or anyone that I try to see the best in people and that people are flawed and that people are confused. And I don't want wanna turn this into, I don't want to turn this into a defense of Jason Whitlock,

because he's made me super angry. I've got friends of mine who if they saw him, they would beat him up in the street. On site? Yes. Yes. Multiple friends I have that are so mad on my behalf at what's happened here when I tried to,

I tried very hard to care for this person. This part you guys will find funny. I'm pretty sure that the reason he turned on me is because of something Stugat said. It ain't anything I've ever said publicly about him. So that level saw it goes on his show and he says, it's better. It gives me industry, he's gonna punch me in my face. I'm not a math major but how many guys is Dan Levitard ever punched in the face? I don't know. I mean a lot of people actually three. One was a slap, bourbon street in

New Orleans. So which one is he says he says, Slav, he says punch. This is growing on me. He's an industry plant just like Kevin Hart just like Steven A Smith. One one was a bounce here at fat Tuesdays and Kogin a Grote. What? Yeah. Three. The answer's three. Do you know what Stugot said? Cause I mean, you kind of have to hand it. I don't I don't I can't remember exactly what Stugot said, but he thought I controlled Stugot. Clearly doesn't get the show. I only go to fat places. Is that me you were doing?

I only go to fat Tuesdays? It's bad every day for you, Dan. Oh, God, I'm lost now. I don't even know who's talking. I think with Locke is it the mean. Just to clean this up a little bit, just even a, ends one of his points with goass, Dan Levitard about him, go ask anybody about him. And it seems as if I ask you about Jason Witt Just a clean this up a little bit. Just even a, ends one of his points with go-ass Dan Lovittard

about him, go ask anybody about him. And it seems as if I ask you about Jason Whitlock, you're guarded. You don't actually want to tell me. Well, I don't, I don't. Not a principal though, right? No, but look, not a principal about, hold on. Is this, is this about out of principle?

I'm Dan Lovittard. I don't deal in that kind of muk-raying whatever, or is it specific to him? Is it because you like me see the sadness in what Whitlock's doing now and you don't deal in that kind of muck racking or whatever, or is it specific to him? Is it because you like me see the sadness and what Whitluck's doing now and you don't wanna pile on? I don't know. I don't know. When I called him, when I called him,

I was genuinely curious about what's going on with him. And if he's okay, because this can all just be, how do I get the clicks, my career is ending, but I don't know. Like I just wanna know like I just want to know and scape has done such good work with what the undefeated was supposed to be the idea for the undefeated was such a good one. ESPN man we were all hired to shake the place up you see what's happening with McAfee in Norby they hire skipper gets there he's like get me offices in Los Angeles

get me offices in New York studios in Los Los Angeles, New York. Get me Miami. I got a great Norby Williamson story to tell you. He had no idea the Cleveland dirt was coming. None, none was telling every ESPN executive that will never happen. And then the next day it happened after he told Mike Faust, senior, not the one McAfee goes at now, senior. There are some good stories here, but we don't say every- But see, the he's telling them.

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Draft Kings, the crown is yours. Gamely problem called one under Gamely agent, eligibility, research and supply for where prohibited to see Draft Kings.com for details. We need to get to the Nick Saving conversation because I have been deep in the flight logs. If anyone knows where Steve Sarkisian vacations, let me know because lots of flights from Tuscaloosa to Florida, nothing's not Austin right now. But before we do that Lucy, I need to know how the Rose Bowl

and the College Football National Championship game were. The Rose Bowl was really fun. I don't know if we're gonna have a video from the College Football National Championship, but let me tell you, it's terrible. The worst trip we've been on had the worst time. I got sick. Everything went wrong.

And then I had to spend the whole time with Michigan fans. And I don't feel like very strongly like anti-any fan base except for Michigan. I do not like their fans at all. Wow. Really don't. This was worse than Army Navy. This was so much worse than Army Navy. This was worse than some strip, some parking lot that you were wandering around for the SEC Championship game. I got the video back and I was like, there's no way they let us run this. Like, there's no way we use this content. It was so terrible.

So we had a bunch of issues, which we detail in the video. If we run it, you'll see it. We had a tough time, a very tough time. And then I went into the game and I felt this like emotional attachment to Washington. I think it's because they played like Iowa. And I was like, I need them to win. And I hate you.

Played like Iowa, Washington, but it's like they made an opposite of you. I played like Iowa in that game. Oh, okay. Yeah, not all season long. No, they're the exact opposite of Iowa, which is why I went into it. I was like, yes, I really want Washington to win.

I just want to see some point scored. And then I was like, this follows me wherever I go. I'm never ever going to see point scored in my life. You're a fault, Lucy. It is my fault. It's 100% my fault because a big 10 this follows me wherever I go. I'm never ever going to see points scored in my life. You're a fault, Lucy. It is my fault. It's 100% my fault because a big 10 West follows me wherever I go. And then I had to sit there with Michigan fans who I do not like. It was miserable.

I don't like them. They're not they're not cool. Who's worse? Michigan fans are Emily. Oh, wow. Emily's more hateful in her core, but Michigan fans are more annoying. I can't believe that you, I don't imagine you hating someone in college football like that for just being a fan base.

Like it's not like there's reprehensible behavior. It's just they're bad. But all fan bases are kind of obnoxious. So my first experience, like I never had any thoughts on Michigan. I went to Iowa Michigan in the Big Ten Championship like three years ago. Obviously Iowa lost, I believe it was by 39. They lost by a lot.

And it was like halfway through the third quarter, Iowa is down by 30. And this Michigan fan who was like a grown man just starts screaming at my little sister. He screams at her the whole time. He starts screaming at my family. I ended up having to go up to him and say, man, just knock it off.

I was down by 30. And he was like, screw you, screw I, or whatever. I don't care that much. And I asked the Michigan fans around him, I was like, hey, can you guys just get this guy to stop? And they were like, no, you just have to deal with it. And it was horrible. And then when we went to Michigan Ohio State this year,

it was the only time we dealt with like bad fans. It was the only time where I was like, wow, people are harassing me, wow, people are really, really like, I don't feel safe right now. And then we went to the Rose Bowl. I didn't really feel as bad about them then, but still didn't enjoy it. Stood in front of a Michigan fan for half the day. She hasn't talked for two weeks.

She's her second second. She's revving really well. She did share all those thoughts on Miami Mike Depp this morning. And if you want those, you can subscribe wherever you get podcasts. That's a you coming from. No, but he's he's right. First of all, she has, she's been dying to talk and Jeremy stole the exclusive of Lucy had a shitty time.

She's, she's done all that. Look, what are you grinning about back there? You're stealing from the company. Scoopstache. We wanted to get to the Sabin stuff. I don't want to go to Lucy's video right now. She is sold it in a way that makes me not want to go to. I kind of want to see it.

I want to see it. Okay. We'll get, it's bad. All right, we'll get back to it. Can we talk about the greatest college football head coach ever retiring? Her parents did not retire. Can we talk about the sad graphic behind Dan that made me giggle during the beginning of the segment?

I mean, Pete Carroll has to feel terrible today. But yes, Mike, what do you, what's the visual representation of that then diagram that I was talking about where there's someone squarely in the middle of a college football and super ball championship. Pete Carroll did it, but 30 feet back, but in the middle. I think I, I found myself doing the college football thing, which was, okay, wow, that's huge shocking news. Let me already go to what this means and how people react to it, because that's a domino that's going to fall. And you have all these kids being able to enter the portal. And whoever comes from another school

is going to go to that school. And then those kids jump in the portal. And all these jobs are gonna jump. And I'm not gonna play the carousel music, but this is quite possibly the biggest college football domino to ever fall. This guy ran this sport. Or then Bear Bryant.

And I know. And I know that in the NIL era, which is still very short lived, domino to ever fall. This guy ran this sport. Or then bear Brian. And I know. And I know that in the NIL era, which is still very short lived, he didn't actually win a title. And you could actually say, Nick Saban, you're probably getting out at the right time, not just because of your age,

but because of the way that you ran college football, the very early days of NIL have told us, and it has shown us that there's going to be a bit more parody, a bit more of the talent going to different places. So this is a great time for him to get away from the sport, what shocking is that while we said this might be happening, he was interviewing coaches two days ago. So he made up his mind to do this right now, like David Samson would say. Right now. And it like it left Alabama without a real plan and it'll be curious to see what they do.

But I do want to talk about somebody that dominated the sport in ways that no one ever has. And we can say definitively, that is the greatest college football head coach of all time. Yeah, there's not even a goat debate, I think, with Nick Saban, which is why it's like, there's so many things you can talk about. You can talk about him winning all the championships and having this endless supply of guys, more first round draft picks than losses in his career, which is just insane.

But I think you could probably also make an argument that the reason college football is as good of a product as it is now and is worth so much money and why the SEC is so powerful is because Nick Saban up the game for everyone else. Everyone was always trying to get to where he was in coaching and it made the product better because he was so good. It's interesting to view it from the prism of Miami because he failed here, hard stop. And he never wanted to be here. Wayne Heisange was a very wealthy man who simply convinced him that he wanted to be a pro when Nick Sabin didn't want to be a pro. And he told him, he told Nick Sabin, if you ever want to leave, you can just up and leave. If you're not, if you think you're

right that you're not going to like this, you can leave. And so Nick Sabin left and everyone in Miami fell on his head, including me, including me in a way that I regret now because I was too poisonous and it was easy. It got a lot of applause, but Wayne Heizango wasn't mad. He said, no, of course that's the deal we made. I told him he could go back. He was a mediocre professional coach and the best college football coach we've ever seen. Of all time, one, one, a championship at LSU went to the pros, had difficulty in the pros. And after saying, quote, I'm not going to be the next Alabama head coach. So you quit asking and he then became the Alabama head football coach. Yeah, it was a little toxic.

Our show had years worth of Sabin songs and Sabin is a liar. Do you have any of those? You should get some. I need to make sure that they've aged with grace. But you guys made up. I mean, we've had Sabin on the show since he regrets how it went about. And I know you certainly regret your reaction. I was calling him a vacuum cleaner salesman. In the time that Nick Sabin left, uh, and went and had an entire second career as a college

football coach, winning six national championships, the dolphins won zero playoff games. And if you combine the amount of championships that Bill Belichek and Nick Sabin won 13, that's more wins than the dolphins have had in a season since 1984. It's fascinating that you say that because Nick Sabin was only derailed in the pros, I believe, because the doctors told him to take Dante culpepper instead of Drew Brees. If taken Drew Brees, he might still be with the dolphins coaching the dolphins and winning and being Bella check because I would imagine that Sabin could have turned Drew Brees into what Sean Payton turned him into. I'm curious if Mike and Lucy and other college football fans agree with me on this, but

I've hated Nick Sabin for most of my life because he's been so good and Alabama has kicked my team's ass so many times, especially in the national championship game. I mean, absolutely hated the guy. I used to tell people that he was the devil. And the last few years, like, I've really done a 180. And I really admire how dominant and how good of a coach he's been. And now I love the little stuff. What made you, Terry? Well, I enjoyed our talk before because we were talking and we realized Nick Saban didn't change.

I've changed. We changed. Yeah, like we're shitting. I respect it. Yeah, we looked to some of the leadership qualities that Nick Saban had when we were younger. It didn't land quite well with us, but he's unquestionably one of the great leaders in the history of sport and the success is undeniable. Do we have an image I know I'm'm putting studio team in a rough spot,

but look what Auburn was doing yesterday. And Holly Anderson, I think pointed out correctly, this is the biggest little brother energy I have ever seen. But Auburn, who famously after big signature wins, throws toilet paper into the trees, trees that were poisoned, by the way, by an Alabama fan, they took to the streets and started tee-peeing trees out there in celebration because the, the reign of terror

that was Nick Sabin's time at the Archbishop's in Alabama is gone and every fan base. All of your group chats were lit up from Texas A&M to Notre Dame to even Miami to schools that you never even thought they had a chance. Now all of a sudden the door creaks open a little bit wider. Auburn, they're super excited. Miami super excited.

FSU super. Everyone's excited now because this guy who ran this sport in ways we've never seen before is gone and there is almost no way whoever they get can replicate back kind of success in the college football day and age we're in right now. Jude, please put it on the pole. Ken Toilet paper ever be the ultimate sign of respect. I think one of the funnier things is like looking at Auburn specifically, they made that Hugh Freezehire and tamed their own like public image simply because he could beat Nick Saban.

That is literally the only reason they hired him. That just shows like how important this guy is to college football to the SEC. Like obviously they're like just at it. There's no debate. He's the greatest of all time. I need to hear from Stu Gotts. Do teams still have to do it against Alabama? You see who ends up being the coach and that's a, that's a discussion. Who would want that? Who would want to fall? He can talk about the Patriots too. If I'm a coach looking for a job, I know someone obviously is going to take it, but that is just obviously a tough act to follow.

It's harder to follow Nick Sabin's, we're going to do sports, which job is to follow? Alabama. Alabama was just in the college football playoff, and that is an impossible sport these days to manage. That is a very difficult job. No one from the pros really sees the appeal in doing that right now. I do appreciate that Nick Sabin's final act in college football was to write a lot of recommendation to the NCAA

that they give to Leah Togger by a low and make sure you're a eligibility. Because he didn't have to pay the check. Stop it. I knew there was gonna be a Miami angle to this. Is Christopher Bob gonna get an interview mic? No. Well, I've heard things three, look,

if this were two years ago, Mario Christabal would honestly be as position, well position is almost anyone. What happened since? He lost a middle Tennessee state, any refuse to take a knee, and yeah, it's been, you know, okay, cool, very cool. We're not thinking about each other.

No, not at all. Mario Christabal didn't have big hands for me. Blue blood, cool. We're not thinking about you. No, not at all. Mario Chris ball did have big hands today. Blue blood. Cool. I'm done talking to you forever possibly. I like this. Like who would want to follow Nick Saban? I don't know a psychopath and famously college football coaches are all psychopaths. Sarge's on the phone right now. Right now. Don't let it hard. Let's go to 80. Don Lebatard, let's go to 80. His name is Bo. Wow. I think Billing Time to an 8 instead of a 8.

It's a clear thing. I get all of them. Stugats. Number 8. He got it. It's Chris Cooner on the line. He's seeing. VCC Don Lebatardar Show with his two gods. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪

I played a clip earlier of Stephen A. Smith and his wit-lock takeout saying, As Stan Levitard, go ahead and ask Jamell Hill about Jason Whitlock. So we've asked Stan Levitard, and he's been reserved, so we're going to try our hand at asking Jamell Hill. OK, and we will ask J Jamel Hill about what I believe to be the most important story of the day, which is Lucy's intense hatred for Michigan fans. Because, oh wow, Jamel agrees with that one totally. Lucy says he's lost. Lucy says there's a, I can relate. They're the worst Jamel Michigan fans are the worst. I thought all fan bases,

any fan base that's caught up in the identity politics of being a regional sports team that wants to be believed in nationally. I thought all fan bases are kind of obnoxious that way. Yeah, all fan bases are, I have a different levels of being obnoxious. I mean, I don't know if Michigan would be my number one, but they would probably be in my top five. And I think at this year if we were just doing it based purely off this college football season, they would by far be the most obnoxious fan base because with all of the speculation about whether or not they stole signs and cheated, they turned themselves into victims so badly, like this whole Michigan versus everybody, like all of these wounds were self-inflicted. Like, and so it's just not rational, talking, I mean, no fan base is really rational, but it was the martyrdom, it was the victimhood.

It was them writing that nobody believed in us trained that is so annoying and they were at their worst this season. And so I was hoping that they would be, you know, I was hoping that they wouldn't make it this far. I knew they had a very good team. So I certainly don't want to make a scene like their team wasn't worthy or what they accomplished or anything like that. But hearing them constantly over and over again, talk about how they were targeted and just that whole thing with the cheating, they were the most obnoxious fan base in college football this season. And I don't think anybody else comes close. I believe that this is the happiest I've ever seen Roy Bellamy. And I think it's not even because of the pants.

There's look at how joyous he is. It's simply because Whitlock is getting dragged today, isn't it? Oh, absolutely. Is he because I tried asking Jamel Hill, and we talked about Michigan. Can we talk about the Whitlock thing? Please, more stories. Jamel, Steven A. Smith told me in that clip

to ask you about Jason Whitlock. I am asking you about Jason Whitlock. Okay. Well, I will say that what Steven A. Smith told me in that clip to ask you about Jason Whitlock. I am asking you about Jason Whitlock. Okay. Well, I will say that what Stephen A. said is correct is that when the undefeated started, you know, Jason and I have a history. And I just realized it's been a really long time since I've said his name. And so maybe from this point forward, I just won't say it. Or you can call the fat bastard. I won't go there. I'll leave that to Steven.

Anyway, just a quick point about the rant is that it is even though in real life, like off air, I've heard Steven a, you know, curse just in a conversation. He sounds so awkward cursing up broadcast, maybe because he's not used to doing it, but, you know, I needed him to put a little stank on it. You know, I'm saying like he, you know, it sounded like he had cursed it a long time. It sort of reminded me of when you, you know, sort of learned your teacher's first name and you're like, oh my God, you're not Miss Johnson, you're Loretta.

What is this? So I love, I love no holds barred, A. I love I love outside outside the corporate machine Stephen A saying whatever the hell he wants all powerful. I'm here for I'm here for the rankings of women. I'm here for talking about the body parts. I think I'm here for I'm here for this liberator Stephen A. But it still feels weird to to hear him curse and I just you know I needed it to sound a little less awkward, but that means I had to answer Mike's question, is that Steven A. was correct.

When the undefeated started, you know, he reached out to a bunch of us to see if we wanted to work, you know, with the undefeated. He and I have a particular, we were at one point, I would have considered us to be friends. And that dissolved for a number of reasons, some of which I don't necessarily feel like I want to kick up the bones all, but only to a certain degree

to make my point. But by that time, we were not even, we wouldn't even acknowledge each other probably in the same room on that level. And he reached out to me, he apologized and said that it was a bad look to have two black people in our position and to be beefing, and that he would like me to do some work with the undefeated. Now, I was, I thought that it was such a terrible idea for a skipper to hire him to do this. I don't know why he did.

And I don't skipper that. I mean, I told him that at the time that like this was not- We've learned it's dance fault, Jamel. We've learned that it's dance fault. I found that out later and I almost started to be like, damn. That was too. What would make you think this was a good idea? God damn it, Dan.

This is what happened to Jamel. This is what happened. It wasn't just me, it was me and Simmons, right? It's with, I don't know, I heard that. Boo, boo, boo, boo. Yeah, with lock-ass, yes.

With lock-ass, to make a call vouching for him as a journalist. And we did. And I was, I made the the I made not the joke but I just said earlier in the show how's that for privilege how does the black guy get power it's the black guy who's against all the other black people chosen by the two white guys and the Cuban guy that is my main question to you Dan did you ask any black people about I didn't well but, but no, but no, but no, but Jamel, I was vouching for him as a columnist.

You know, he was a good sports columnist. Like that's, that's not up for dispute. So like he was a good sports columnist. And obviously, if it skippers a worst mistake, according to Stephen A Smith, I was, I was somewhere adjacent to that that fills me with great remorse now. As you look at me and have not even commented that I'm dressed like Richard Simmons, like I deserve to be embarrassed today.

Well, you know, I didn't want to totally derail this conversation there, but I did notice you were dressed rather strangely, but you know, I'm not here to judge. Well, if this is how you felt this morning that you wanted to dress and hear it. What did you think? Because this is so interesting, everything that's happening at the top of sports media right now, Trimell, because you see the culture wars are coming. And to sports media power and sage steel has weighed in on how disappointing it was to see Stephen A Smith go after Jason Whitlock so unprofessionally.

So what do I do with that? Well, there was one person who would come to his defense. I think that's probably the correct person. If you asked me to take five, yes, it's all five of them. Would have probably been her.

I think people have something mistaken though about about all of this. Like, you know, when Stephen A. Doryn, you know, his, his diet drive about woodlock, I think people are under the impression that there was a certain segment of black people that just didn't like Jason Woodlock and this is all politically based. And I can tell you the reasons I don't like him and that I don't for them anymore have nothing to do with his politics. Now that's just a cherry on top at this point.

A lot of it is just basically how they've treated people. And there is a long list of things that he has done. It's a long list that, you know, especially by people in this industry who respect, you know, like, Stewart Scott, let's just take him for example. Jason would like, wrote some pretty awful things about Stewart Scott. And then to try to come back and act like he didn't write those things, it was very disingenuous. He wrote some very awful things about another friend of mine, Scoob Jackson, a person that

I hold near a deer to my heart. And it's one thing to critique people. It's another thing to take the kind of shots that he tends to take at people that are very personal, that are rooted in what seems to be a lot of jealousy, that it is just, it's very distasteful. So he has been opening and airing people out for a long time.

And what happens is what you saw with Stephen A. Smith. I think he just got tired of it. You know, we've all had our turn where Whitlight has decided to make us a target. And I can tell when that happens because my mentions look a certain way whenever he decides to bring my name up. And I tend to ignore it just because I know that that is what he wants. It's that he would like for somebody to respond to him and to kind of keep this going and get his name out there, even though it's not for the most positive, positive attention.

And so I try very hard not to give into it, but it gets tiresome and bothersome and irritating after a while when somebody is constantly talking about you that you don't give a fuck about. very hard not to give into it, but it gives tiresome and bothersome and irritating after a while when somebody is constantly talking about you that you don't give a f*** about. And I think this even, because me knowing this, just having written my memoir less than, you know, it came out, you know, about two years ago, it's something very personal to you. It's something that you pour a lot of time and effort in, and as C said, he wrote it himself. And I think the last straw for him

seemed to be him attacking his credibility, him attacking the truthfulness and his memoir. And so he went in. And what he said was correct. Like a bunch of us, when he got hired to run and undefeated, did not want to work with him. When he emailed me and asked me to work with him and said, hey, we need to bury whatever is between us, I wished him well and said, no, thank you.

And I never disperse anybody for working with him for the brief time that he was there. I mean, if that's what they chose to do, I believed in the thesis behind the undefeated. I believed in the philosophy of it and what it was trying to accomplish. And I was hoping that it would not be the outcome that it eventually became.

It was not surprising to me that that was the case. Because I knew that he just did not have, frankly, the credibility in our community and certainly not among writers. I mean, he spent years ripping the National Association of Black Journalists and Black Drugs as opposed to come working for him. No, it was an impossible task, you know,

kind of to begin with. And so, what Stephen A. how he responded, I think it's just, you know, frankly, just him having reached his limit of, like, I just can't take this anymore. Let me just drop something and put it to a ether beat and be about my way. Well, let me ask you this, though, because in the present media economy, as we shout into our echo chamber, and he shouts into his, is this a win for Jason Whitlock that Stephen A. Smith

is doing this because this is certainly if the if the intent is to be professional asshole who speaks to white conservatives as the black guy willing to espouse anti black opinions does he win today? I guess you could argue on some level yes because there I mean there's a book after I verify with Stephen A. claim to say, yes, he is correct. We did not want to work with him. And oh, by the way, just a really quick story as a tangent to that.

It was funny because I think the first year he may have been there with the undefeated, they were doing a black history month special and they asked me to be on it. And he was going to be a panelist as well as Michael Wilbond and I talk them know about five or six times. The only time Skipper has made me do something was appear on that black history month special because I was like I won't be on TV with him like I'm just not doing that. But they made it very easy for me. They made sure we were not in the same segment.

They made it sure they make sure we were not in the same segment. So like we never ever saw each other physically on camera. And so next time I see Skipper I'm going to remind him of that the only time he has ever said you have to do this is making me appear in a program with Jason Goodluck. So what are the lights? I feel like Skipper still owes me for that one. Well, one of the odds, one of the? Do you think I used skipper's telephone number once the entire time I worked there. And it's because Jason Whitlock asked me to vouch for him. What are the odds of that? And whatever it was eight or nine months later, Whitlock

called me in tears because it had all fallen apart and skipper had to fire him very, very quickly. Like because I'm surprised there wasn't more of an uprising immediately that made that, made that known so that that would be cut short, you know, earlier than nine months. Do you believe that in sports media, he's the, he's the most disliked person that there is from other, among other journalists? I mean, he's in the top five. I'm out of the way, Dan. I feel like you owe us some reparations for that. So you do.

So I'm in the center. You're a metal, you're a metal, a metal, a metal advisor now. You're a metal, a metal, a metal advisor. That comes, I don't think I'm gonna start putting reparations in wherever it is that in the notes, in the notes. Thanks, Dan. Yes, whenever there's an invoice,

I want to see reparations on there, okay? And that's what I want to see. I want to see reparations on there. And that's what I want to see. I want to see you write that on there. I will say this, and this is, I think this gets to something larger here. The reason none of this came out, necessarily. I mean, I know there was a death span article that was written about his tumultuous reign there. And what was happening. But I can say like internally, like we might have had like some black folks at ESPN at the time.

We may have had conversations with each other, but I think unofficially, we all decided to kind of stand out. We didn't want to work with you, but we're not going to sabotage your time while you're there. And that was because I think we all understood the larger mission of making sure the undefeated was a success. And at the end of the day, it was going to be a platform and an opportunity for a lot

of black columnists, writers, you know, people who deserve their work to be seen. And I don't think we wanted to sabotage that despite our dislike for the person who was running it. Now, I'll say this is that when it comes to, is he the most hated? I think he's up there. And certainly if you want to take it to a black journalism circle, a sports black journalism circle, I mean, I think he's number one and there's really no one else that's even coming for that crown. And a lot of it is because we remember when he was a very good columnist,

that he was one of the best writers and best columnists in America. And to see him evolve into this, it's such a crazy, psychotic heel turn that I think none of us ever saw coming. And even when he was at his best and he would sometimes write things that I thought were a little distasteful, they were more forgivable because we thought he was being genuine.

And now seeing this complete turn into whatever this is, we know that so much of his life and his behavior was just a complete act. So I can accept somebody who has no varying and different beliefs than I do. That's like not a problem. What is a problem to me is when I know you're switching because you're trying to get a chip. And it's like, I can't respect that. I have no respect for that whatsoever.

Jamel, good talking to you as always. Thank you for the time and the insight. All right, think about your reparations, Dan. More? You want more. You want more. I'll just say it. Now that this is known. All right, take about your reparations, Dan. More? You want more. You want more. I'll just say it. Now that this is known. All right. Take care, y'all.