The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - The Big Suey: Gotcha Journalism with Ryan Blaney

Episode Date: May 6, 2025

Dan and Billy's persistence finally gets Ryan Blaney to admit that everyone in NASCAR is a dirty, rotten cheater. AND LESS TALKING, CARL! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Conditions apply to all benefits. Visit pcfinancial.ca for details. Welcome to the Big Sui, presented by DraftKings. Why are you listening to this show? The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan LeBattard podcast. I'm sorry, I'm not gonna apologize for that. In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging.

I have been tempted in restaurants, just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys? I've done it. And now here's the marching man to nowhere, fat face and the habitual liar. This episode is presented by DraftKings.

DraftKings, the crown is yours. Greg Cotter, are you ready to go? Your headset is not on. I am ready. What are you doing? You seem very busy here. We've got- I'm researching. You are researching?

Yeah. Did you find out things that will be useful on the program? I am preparing, yes. Okay. We do have an update. We're doing due diligence. We do have an update. Multiple NHL insiders, including lead NHL insider for the athletic are reporting that it's not expected that Sam Bennett faces any discipline.

Oh, wow. I mean, I just said it. Yeah, as as reported it. That's breaking news. Report it. Yeah, that's breaking news. Yeah. I'm a journalist and I also let you guys know I'm a judge. And I also let you guys know I'm a judge. And I told you that. Can I make one thing clear? These are not reports saying he will not be suspended. I will read you the reports. It's Emily Kaplan, very reputable. That was not a report either, what she said.

Hold on. Just, Mike, I need to please, if you don't mind, okay, because the tension between Cody and Zaslow is real real and where they identify as journalists It's real Greg Cody is going to be proven to be Instantaneously wrong in his opinion that Sam Bennett will be suspended and therefore he's gonna ask follow-up questions So he can be less wrong so the the first report from Emily Kaplan She goes she goes out of her way to say nothing confirmed yet so it feels more like an opinion but I don't believe Sam Bennett will receive supplemental discipline for his contact with Anthony Solars in game

one. Instead of telling us you don't believe how about telling us when you know. Okay why do we keep skipping over things that are believed and things that are opinions when I reported I reported reported, it was like 30 minutes ago. Your honor, based on what his honest. Hold on a second, hold on a second. If you reported something, do you think I would have the gall to say based on what, or I would trust the sources as a journalist? No, that's very insulting.

I reported like 25 minutes ago that Sam Bennett will not be suspended, and I also reported there won't even be a hearing so what are we still doing? You reported that based on what though? Hold on a second I just told you I would never tell you my sources. You didn't even quote a source. He broke that news Greg that happened on the show when you were trying to figure out what the sound was on your computer.

Yeah. That's my report. That's already been exposed as a fraud. Greg, when it was exposed on a fraud, I just lit up the video department, just went in there in a rage because I'm like, please tell me you got the spit take in the kitchen that I did and all they got was that I was cleaning up the coffee. Oh boy. Because one they got you on that, on that prank, an excellent prank, I did a spit take that spit coffee cartoonishly

all over the kitchen. I made a substantive mess. Did you clean it up? Yeah, that's what they got. They got the picture of me cleaning it up. This one's a little bit stronger from Chris Johnston of the Athletics. Sam Bennett is not expected to face any supplemental discipline for his hit on Anthony Stolarz during last night's game per sources. Okay, not expected. Is that a report? Not expected. That is, he cites sources during last night's game per sources. Okay, not expected. Is that a report?

That is, he cites sources. He's reporting on his sources. Okay, the sources are telling him we don't expect him to be suspended. Which is something. What if they... Will not be suspended. What if they expected it though? Again, that report right there, that's a journalist just like me, alright.

That guy is saying not expected. Right. I've already told you it's not happening information people are valuable information is currency you see what's happening with adam schaffter what you laugh sads those two news first it's why he's a rising star dsp and and i'd argue i'd argue a rising star in the journalism business because he breaks news like that thirty minutes ago he

told you. I don't know why you're laughing. I mean, that feels insulting. I don't know what you're doing there. I'll give you an example. It was widely reported that the championship race was coming back to Homestead for the NASCAR Cup Series, but it was only until this morning, eight minutes ago, where it's been finally confirmed by ESPN. That's not good enough for me. We're going to have Ryan Blaney on in a couple minutes. I'm going to ask him directly to further confirm what's been talked about openly. Sure.

As a journalist, when we find out later in the day, like the NHL announces there will be no disciplinary action, not even hearing for Sam Bennett, it's also going to say on television, on ESPN, as first reported by Jonathan Zaslow on the Dan Lebatard show. Because as a journalist, you give credit to other journalists. I will give you that hundred dollar bill I didn't have to give Dan if ESPN reports that you broke that. Well, I don't have control of that, but that would be bad journalism if I don't get credit. I don't have control of what other people do. ESPN famously doesn't credit people all of the time. They have to give Zaslow

credit for it to be a breaking report that you respect. And and and by the way the way that... Can you answer my question? I know you wanted to make your own point about the NHL. He didn't make a report. Yes sir. He gave his opinion. Should I do it again? I'll do it again to clarify. He made a report. Yes, he gave his opinion. I'll do it again I made a report there wouldn't even be an opinion Just like I gave an opinion that he would be He's gaslighting you should we clarify like I could do it again right now. Just everybody's ears are open and they go ahead Do it again. I am reporting which which is that my camera. I am reporting my opinion. I am reporting

No, no, no, no, that's that's your report reporting That's your report my report is that Sam Bennett will not be suspended and won't even have a Disciplinary hearing with the NHL because it's a waste of everyone's time. I am reporting that So when it is confirmed by the league later on today Zaslow had it first Indisputable everyone heard it saslow at first because this is a dispute well everyone heard a lot of the first of his eyes for all guess what he first of all the way they had a show usually works is that if he's not suspended they're not going to report he is not being suspended if he were being suspended that is something they

would i don't know that issue uh... we will get back to this i'm sure many times over because these two do not think of journalism The same but I don't call it a report when I'm just giving my opinion I didn't report that was my opinion and that was my opinion. I didn't report it. He reported it correctly Okay, he got it. He got it Not yet, but it will be known and you will be instantaneously wrong because you didn't believe his report like it was a report let me explain is there is a real report opinion explain to the service right now so what a gaslight is for

journalism right here my opinion is that he should not be suspended that's an opinion okay other than general school university florida my reports is that he will not be suspended and there won't even be a hearing with a base on? Based on my sources. That's where he's got you. Okay but but in journalism if you go on cite a source, go on, even if you don't name him or her, I would never do that. Right of

course because you're a journalist. I would go to prison before I name the source. But it's still usually it's de rigueur in journalism. Now you're using words I don't understand. When you're citing, you went to Santa Fe, you gotta journalism. Now you're using words I don't understand. When you're citing a source, generally you say a source within the NHL front office or you say a panther's source, you cite someone. I do things differently. Okay. That's fine.

And by the way, I want to make it clear, I have no vested interest in this. I'm fine if Sam Bennett doesn't get suspended. More power to him. Sounds like there's a house money game for Bennett, right? Like you just do whatever he wants. He should be suspended. Like, go crazy, right? You know, if he throws an elbow at the other goalie and he doesn't get suspended, more power to him. Ryan Blaney is joining us now. I'm sorry that happened to you, I mean, I'm sorry. What happened?

I wanna hug him. He had a very small window to do something there. I am now officially, and our show is officially Friends with Ryan Blaney because we are now into racing. It's been fairly shocking. I gotta be, I gotta be. Well, we've been into racing for a long time. We have been?

Race was a race joke. You've been into racing for a long time. We have been? Race was a race joke. You've been into racing for a long time. Okay, thank you. You think that Ryan Blaney got that or you think he- It was for you. Okay, thank you. But we're onboarding a guest here. I appreciate you making a private joke about race.

All aboard. But all aboard is what you just- Yeah, you said onboarding. I'm like, all aboard. Ryan Blaney stepping onto the SS Levatard. He really deserves a better intro. The Cody's, ladies and gentlemen, they're sore from dancing this weekend.

I've got a heavy-tongued producer, Ryan Blaney. Do you ever have a family around you that you've been carrying in your economy that burdens you every day? Well, thanks for having me, guys. That's a heck of an intro. I appreciate it. I'm back on the show. Thanks again for having me, guys. That's a heck of an intro. I appreciate it.

Back on the show. Thanks again for having me. No, luckily, I have not had a family member who has burdened me too much. OK, I go ahead. Do you ever find any of the guys on your team, they talk too much in your ear while you're just trying to concentrate on racing? You know, sometimes I feel like I've kind of always been one that prefers silence over too much talking.

I like communication when it's helpful, but sometimes it's just talking just to talk, but no, I'm not gonna call anybody out, but I think we've all had that to where it's like, what's the point of this conversation going, and are you just saying words just to say them? But luckily I don't have to deal with that. Hold on, so you're telling me that your communication with your team is such in the panic and the heat

of all these moments and you need silence, that you've never in all of your life tell, you know, led your team by yelling back, hey, somebody shut up, I don't, shut up, somebody's talking too much, shut up. I won't say I don't go about it in that way. I just, I think I just say like, less talking. And that's really all.

And then you say it gets resolved. You never want to yell at anybody right I mean you're all out of group and you you know it's just like alright let's talking and then we can go off. The last time we spoke it was before Homestead and I asked you do you think a meteor is gonna strike your car and you said something to the effect of well I don't think I'd be that surprised the way that the season's going you were running a great race at Homest, and then your car just blew up when you were leading the pack. And since then, your luck has somehow got worse. So, Ryan Blaney, same question for Kansas this weekend. Are you going to get struck by a meteor?

You know, I think, you know, I was watching the replay from Homestead, and I mean, call me crazy, I feel like a meteor went through our grill and hit the radiator and made the car blow up. So I think you spoke that one into existence. So if you want to say a lightning strike and I get struck by lightning, then I think you're the say all end all, you know, and you can you can pretty much judge the future. But hopefully it gets a little better. It's gotten a little bit better, which is nice.

We've been able to actually finish some races, so that's good, so it's a start. Hopefully that continues. You were really hard on yourself, because it does feel like the pendulum's swinging a little bit in your favor, but Texas Motor Speedway, a lot of people are talking about that track, that it's terrible.

There were cars just spinning out because they were just driving, and you had single car accidents, and it was just such a random race. You were highly critical of Texas Motor Speedway saying it's probably the worst track. When you're going through such a difficult stretch and there are certain things that are out of your control and you start going the way, when things start trending a little bit more positive, in your mind are you kind of thinking, well what can possibly go wrong

now? Kline I try not to think that way. What can go wrong next? I really try not to be that way. But it always is in the back of your head, right? All right, what's next? We've got nothing really can seem to go right, and what's going to happen next. But I try not to be that way. Um, but it's hard not to sometimes, but, uh, yeah, Texas, you know, this past weekend was that place is tough, man. It's, um, they repaved it, you know, about, yeah, I think like 2017 and just the surface, you know, with racetracks, like when you repave, uh, that racetrack takes a while to kind of age to where you can race on it, um, competitively, like at the speeds we are to get the track wide, it just is tough to do.

And that place just does not age. So it's just kind of a single lane, maybe two lanes. And if you step a foot, you're wrecking. And it's just a hard place to race and pass. I think that's what kind of gets drivers frustrated when there's nowhere to go and move around. And drivers get frustrated by it. The fans, obviously it's not a good show for the fans to watch. So hopefully they can figure something out for that place to make it a little bit better

because it needs something done to it. Ryan, if I could get a little more help from you to make this just a little bit newsier, can you just follow me down this path and not think it got you journalism? Has Ryan Blaney ever said when talking back to his crew, can you just follow me down this path and not think it got you journalism has ryan blaney ever said when talking back to his crew you know and saying less talking less talking does it ever is it more often than not less talking carl

like that it's one that it's one guy and it's not all of them it's it's one guy on your team and it's always carl Man you're hung up on this one. No it's not just one guy. It's unfortunate. I don't even know if you have a Carl. I'm not trying to get you to get anybody but when you talk about things happening to your car, do you have a worst ever experience in your car? I mean, when they catch on fire, it's not fun. That sometimes happens. So that's probably the worst.

I mean, we wreck and stuff, and some wrecks are harder than others, but like fire, I think everyone is afraid of it. It's nothing you can really do about it. Except for get away from it as soon as you can, and it kinda takes us a while to get out of the car, or get stopped, and so that's the worst case scenario, is catching on fire, and then just,

it kinda goes into panic mode. But yeah, that's something we try to avoid. I know that you, Ryan, are probably very excited about the Netflix series coming out. So when you watch it back, is there any moments that you think back and you're like, man, I wonder if Carl said this about me behind the scenes and I really wanna watch Netflix to see the real story

of what went on that day? And like, do you think you're gonna catch anyone in anything? Have you been anticipating any moments where you're like, I wonder what really happened there? Let me see if I can catch them in something. Yeah, yeah, I think so. I'm excited for that to come out.

You know, heck, it comes out tomorrow, you know, May 7th. And season two, it's gonna be really fun. I've seen little bits of it. I didn't wanna watch the whole thing yet before it came out. But yeah, I mean, I know the stuff that I was in, right? I was there for it. I know kind of how all that went.

But other guys, like they interview other drivers or things like that, I am curious about, you know, how do they think of a certain situation that they were in? You know, whether I'm involved in it or not, like I wonder kind of how they thought about that. So I am curious to see from that side because I don't know what anyone else is thinking and you never know what's gonna come out.

But the bits I've seen, it's really, really good. I know people like the first season and I think this one was even better from the clips I've seen of it. So yeah, they did a good job. I appreciate Netflix for doing that and showing like an inside look of the drivers, the teams, the week to week stuff, the highs

and the lows of the sport. That's always interesting for people to see. And you know, you've seen it a lot with other sports, you know, from the quarterback show, receiver, full swing. You know, I think it's you got to give people more and more of like showing a little bit more behind the scenes. And I think this show definitely does that. I would never, you're, you're an honest man, obviously a very honest man.

You're on the up and up. You would never do anything to skirt the rules in NASCAR, but NASCAR notoriously teams try to get around the rules a little bit, right? Which is why you guys have so many different checks on the different cars. And even after you check the car, maybe you go and like, Oh, well, let me see if we got to tweak this, tweak that kind of get around the rules. I wouldn't call you a cheater. You're not, maybe you go and like, oh, well, let me see if we can tweak this, tweak that, kinda get around the rules. I wouldn't call you a cheater, you're not,

you're an honest man, but those dirty rotten cheaters that you race against, I mean, they're up to something. You think watching the show, you're gonna be able to find out maybe some tricks to the trade, maybe some things that they're doing to their cars that you can implement on your cars,

or is it not helpful in that way? You know, NASCAR, honestly, motorsports in general is a unique sport from that regard, like the gray area of the rule book. You're all che NASCAR, honestly, motor sports in general is a unique sport from that regard. Like the gray area of the rule book. Not you, but everyone is. Everyone is. Not you. Everyone is, there it is.

That's what I was looking for. Everyone is. I mean, that's what everyone does. Everyone's a cheater. Yeah, if you're not cheating, you're not trying. That's good journalism, Billy. Good journalism. He said it finally.

It's only cheating if you get caught. Yeah. You know? I mean, that. Good journalism. He said it. It's only cheating if you get caught. Yeah. You know, I mean, that's the thing. And it's different than other sports, right? Like, you know, there's controversy in, you know, other sports. What is like in the rule book or not or what's in that gray area? Our sport just has a bigger gray area because the cars, there's so many things on them that there's only so many rules

and everyone always tries to manipulate, you little things but I'll tell you to answer your question on if I would learn something from watching the show on that regard no if you're pushing the gray area there's no cameras around they're not gonna film that so that stuff gets done in a dark room in the back of race shops and no one ever knows about it but that team. Have you ever considered taking steroids? No. No, that would not help me at all. I mean, aesthetically, like for appearance.

What do you mean? Appearance? Yeah, just for appearance. Yeah, I would love to break out and you know. What do you mean? I think if I, I think everyone would know something's up, dude, I'm a tiny guy, I think if I, if I, I think everyone knows something's up, dude. I, I'm a tiny guy. I walk around like a buck 40 and if I all of a sudden showed up weighing like 170, 180, just, just juice to the gills, I think people would know what's up. Um, so

no, I would not, I would not do that stuff. Would that be a problem? It would be a competitive advantage. But would that be a problem? like who cares if they notice that you're looking kind of jackson who cares i do uh... i don't know what you might not want to be public are open make all right well you might and that might be for health reasons or you might not care about the look of someone cheating by using steroids but i would like everyone in the s p n and and fox and everywhere else to grab the sound of

ryan blaney we got the gotcha journalism it was from the journalist billy gill that got him to say it uh... ryan blaney as miami homestead comes to town and he's bringing the the whole as as this whole thing comes to miami well next year for the championship race ryan blaney need him to confirm those reports that we will get to that in a second but i think ryan blaney before he does that has said everyone in his sport

is cheating. That's news. Hey man, everyone does. Everybody does. Double down. This is part of it. What would be the advantage of juicing? And what if that's not really a competitive advantage?

What is considered a competitive performance enhancer in NASCAR other than what you can do to the car? Like, do you have a double shot espresso and then that makes you like too rowdy? Like, how would you actually improve the driver's performance with something foreign? Yeah, and that's a good question. Like, I really don't know. Yeah, maybe I guess. Like Adderall? Yeah, maybe, I guess. You should try that.

LASIK? Like would LASIK be one? LASIK, Lly surgery? I mean, gosh, but that's not like illegal. You know, you could do that. It could have been one day. Right, yeah, it could have been. But no, I really don't know.

Like, I mean, getting bigger and stronger is like as opposed to like, you know, when the steroid thing was big in baseball, you know, it helped those guys do what they need to do at the plate, you know, and that was beneficial for their job. But like being big and strong is not as much of a doesn't really help you any driving a race car. Like, you know, we work on different parts't really help you any driving a race car. Like, you know, we work on different parts of our body

to be efficient in the car. Like, you know, a lot of heat trading and, you know, stamina, stuff like that, controlling heart rate. Like, so being like muscular and big, it wouldn't really help. So I really don't know. Like you said, LASIK might be P1, and maybe I got, my eyes get worse every year.

So I might have to jump on that train at some point. Brian, we just had the Miami Grand Prix down here. How would you describe the relationship between your sport and F1, and why is NASCAR better? Yeah, I mean, hey, as a racer, I'm a fan of all types of motor sports. Like I watch F1, I watch motocross, Indy cars, or spring cars, like I just like racing.

And for some reason, like it's a's like some fans across the country and world, they butt heads when it comes to like, oh, this is superior. I hate this other form of racing. It's like, well, to me, if you're a fan of motorsports, you're a fan of motorsports. I'm biased that I think we put on better races as far as passing competitive cars each week. F1 is spectacular from the engineering side. You know, the drivers are amazing. I just I wish F1 was a little bit more competitive on the, you know, you see more passes, you see a little bit different

variation of winners. I wish that I wish F1 was a little bit different in that regard, but I respect a hell lot of it and those guys that do it. But I just think we have a little bit different in that regard, but I respect a hell lot of it and those guys that do it, but I just think we have a little bit more dynamic as far as the raceability and the excitement of cars passing each other and battles and different winners. I think that's, I think people like to see that. I don't like this. I mean, I like you, Ryan, you seem like a nice guy,

but I don't like this. We're trying to make you the bad boy of motorsports here and you're complimenting F1. I mean, it's very easy to take them out. Hey, F1, you seem like a nice guy, but I don't like this. We're trying to make you the bad boy of motorsports here, and you're complimenting F1. I mean, it's very easy, take them out. Hey, F1, you drove 57 laps. That's a joke. Like, 57 laps, get out of here, F1. Trying to get you on steroids,

you don't wanna take steroids, you have your foundation that helps people. Like, what's your deal, guy? Like, come on. I've ever heard of the Intimidator, Dale Earnhardt. Like, come on, let's start scaring people. You can't be those stupid. Yeah, I'll just, I'm sorry, I'm not a dick. I just, I can't do it, man. Like come on, that's scaring people. You can't be those. Yeah, I'll just, I'm sorry I'm not a dick.

I just, I can't do it, man. You're cursed, that's a start. We're getting there. There it is, you know what? Here we go. Ryan Blaine. All right, Ryan, Ryan, Ryan, Ryan, what's your favorite curse word?

Oh man, can I say anything on your show? Anything you want, yeah. Well, it's nothing of a favorite. Say your favorite. Yeah. I mean, I think it's hard to beat. It's a good one. It's a good one.

Hell yeah. It's a good one. Yeah, Ryan Blaine, yeah. Hall of Famer. There's so many different variations you can use to do it. I mean I think it's hard to beat So many different variations you can use what's your favorite what's your favorite? How do you say it? Hey, man, I'm only gonna say one Yeah, I mean yeah you can shut the f up dumb mother effort is probably a pretty good one Yeah, we like it that kind of cuts to the core Come on right right scale it back mother effer is probably a pretty good one. Yeah, this guy gets it. We like it. That kind of cuts to the core. Whoa, whoa, too far, too far. Come on, Ryan. Right. Scale it back.

Well, you're not the- Sorry, sorry. You're considered one of the good guys of racing. There are bad boys of racing. And to your point about performance enhancers, Denny Hamlin basically called Kyle Busch fat and out of shape by saying he's every bit the same driver he was over the last decade, but he's just got to take care of his body. So drivers do think that there's something to it that if you're

in better shape it does bring better results in the car I'm sure you take good care of yourself I imagine you're kind of like-minded in that kind of wishes fat. And y'all are trying to get me to call people fat. I just want you to confirm that the championship race is coming to Homestead really. That's all I will I won't say no. I mean everyone has their own things what works for them You know, so I don't I don't judge anybody man, whatever you want to be whatever makes you happy Excellent. What makes me happy is that you're coming back to Miami Homestead. Hopefully we'll get you in studio. Hopefully we can ride around in your car and you can become a legitimate friend of the show.

Can you announce the news that you're bringing your whole party, your whole gang is coming down here again? Yeah, yeah. I'm excited to announce it on y'all show. Like I said, I appreciate you having me. But yeah, we're moving the championship race. NASCAR is moving championship weekend

to Homestead Miami Speedway in 2026, officially. November 6th through the championship race. NASCAR is moving Championship Weekend to hopes that Miami Speedway in 2026, officially, November 6th through the 8th. You know, it was at Miami for a long time. It moved to Phoenix for a handful of years, and now they're bringing it back to Miami. So I know a lot of people are excited about that. I'm very excited about it. It's a great area.

We would love to have you all out for Championship Weekend. It'd be a hell of a time. And so yeah, officially it's out there. People have been having rumors, but it's definitely happening. All right. So now we're friends with Ryan Blaney and we're going to party with them in Miami home. So it's a big deal that this is coming down here.

Ryan, thank you, sir. Good. Good seeing you again. Appreciate your time. Yeah, thank you. Yes. Best of luck this weekend. Everything's expensive now.

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TommyJohn.com slash Dan with promo code Dan. Save 25% at TommyJohn.com slash Dan. Dan Lebatard. What is the worst part of the life? Stugats. The worst part of the life of what? This is the Dan Lebatard Show with the Stugats. I want to continue with something that I can feel off our audience and I've been trying and we've been trying to please our audience for a long time and there's some tension around

whenever it is that we're doing the content that we do every day and Panthers talk breaks out in a way that's a little too aggressively in the weeds on Panthers or out of nowhere after huge NBA night Huge just wildly fun NBA night. Hey, why are you guys talking to a race car driver? I don't know if this is happening I can assume it's happening, but I'm going to tell you again and remind you that this is a show show that celebrates Miami and we paused for a moment there before getting to the stuff from the nba last night that i've been if i'm being totally honest avoiding for the following reason i was about as wrong in my analysis as i could be based on the

results in the clippers nuggets series when i said the clippers are good enough to win the championship i said it for the second straight year i said if they're healthy they're good enough to win the championship last year they were not healthy this year they were that series made me wrong because Jokic took a ridiculous shot and Aaron Gordon saw what was in my lifetime the first thing I've ever seen, a buzzer-beating dunk just because the MVP of the league throws up a stupid ridiculous shot that he's made twice before in Anthony Davis, but he airballs it and Aaron Gordon dunks it. I thought that was as wrong as I could be. That's as embarrassing as it can be.

Except if you listen to yesterday's show where my analysis was, Aaron Gordon can only dunk. Ha ha. I just saw OKC lose exactly the way the Clippers would have beaten them by being a veteran team against a young team and savvy and amazing. And that game was the best, obviously, of the night.

The Nuggets are champions. That's the best offensive player I've ever seen. Shea Gilder's Alexander can challenge with his free throw, but he's going to have to dethrone that ogre. And no one, no one shuts that down. That does not get shut down. And so, Amin, I ask you, that basketball night, how magical was that for you?

Mm-hmm. Yeah, got it, okay. Yeah, thanks for getting to basketball about two hours into the show. You know, pretty decent night. Mike just showed me a pretty interesting stat from last night. Two NBA underdogs of nine plus points,

one outright on the same day in the playoffs for the first time in the last 25 years last night. So, that is insane. Because, yes, because both the Nuggets and the Knicks were going in heavy underdogs into their series against teams that had been rested and waiting for them. And they pulled it off. And I was actually trying to think about, Dan,

what was more improbable? know watching the Nick game especially in the second half the way the the shot selection was going for the Celtics I said it before the game I said I think the Celtics gonna win in five because they're gonna have that one game where they can't hit a three and they will not adjust I had no idea that it would happen that night, right? Meanwhile, the Nuggets-Thunder game, I was certain it was over. It was, at that point, just kind of like going through the motions, the semantics. You know, foul, make free throws, foul, make free throws, and then at some point we're just going to dribble it out. And Yocage has this little

flurry, and then the Thunder make the mistake of fouling up three a little too early. That was crazy. But I'll tell you what, I give Mark Dagnan a lot of credit because he said, that's on me. The players executed what we do. This is our culture. We like doing that.

We probably started a little too early. That one's on me. Which is, by the way, every coach's creed is, hey man, we have a game plan, I want you to execute the game plan. Now if we execute the game plan and we lose, that's my fault, I can wear it. But if we don't execute our game plan, that's something completely different.

Can I ask you what would have happened in that spot if they don't foul a three there with 12 seconds left? And for context, Nuggets have no timeouts and Jokic is not in the game. He's waiting at the scores table. The Nuggets have the ball down by three 12 seconds the clock is ticking. If they decided no no no we don't want to bow here because you know the Nuggets without Jokic on the floor are an all-time terrible NBA team. What would what would they have done there then? So, Dagnold's philosophy is we foul up three.

The part where he said that was on me is that we foul up three in the back court. Like, we shouldn't have fouled that early, that far away. Yeah, they only let like one second to come off the clock. One second came off the clock. So, that's the part where I think he would agree with you if you had it back. They still would have fouled up three.

It just wouldn't have happened that early. Can't let Yocitch back in the game. Yeah, I mean, I get it, but again, if Chalhomgren hits free throws, then we're probably not having this conversation right now. It was great, but then there were three things last night from that game that I never thought I'd see. If I could, could I go through them with you number three an NBA player telling his coach not to review that call never thought I'd see that he shake his Alexander grabs Yocu's his arm the bench doesn't see that part they call for review and shades like no no no review it don't

review but it's too late they've already requested it. Number two, Russell Westbrook making the right play in the clutch. Everyone in America thought he was going head over heels straight to that rim just got a barrel into it and instead he looked up and he saw Aaron Gordon in the wing and he threw it and I said what? Shout out to Russell Westbrook and number one, the number one thing I never thought I'd see in my life, came after the game, Ernie Johnson, asking a Dan LeBattard asked question. He asked Jamal Murray a question

that took about two minutes and 20 seconds to get out. The best thing they did on Inside was they replayed just Jamal Murray waiting for the question to end. And he's just like kinda, he's nodding and he's closing his eyes and then he's looking around and and i just thought well earnings learning from dan how about that it

never thought i'd see it that's funny by the way should erin gordon get a statue depends they want to title this year not yet but they do not yet okay just. I gotta tell you Westbrook making that pass to Gordon at Oklahoma City the crowd that gave him a

standing ovation as he checked in yesterday seemingly the only fan base that actually loves him likes him loves him for him to pass up attacking the basket for the game winner instead passing it out to Aaron Gordon one of the most shocking NBA plays I've ever seen. I want to ask Amin and pick your brain because you know the history of the game so much. Aaron Gordon I guess was a missing piece and is perceived as a surprising missing piece. He's probably not the most surprising active missing piece in the league. I think maybe in terms of all-time history that actually might be Derek White for Boston. What he did for Boston in that acquisition. In

terms of that tier, Aaron Gordon, Derek White, who else in the history of the game have been more surprising championship contributors? I'm guessing you're gonna harken back to a time where there wasn't the superstar era and super teams and there were just role players that were massive for guys. No, I'll give you two names. One guy is active as well and one guy from the past. The guy from the past, Derek Fisher. Out of a small school, Little Rock, Arkansas,

he wasn't heralded, he wasn't physically gifted, he was short and stout, but he was absolutely a difference maker on what, five titles in LA. So Derek Fisher's won. The one who's active is Gary Payton II because this is a guy that everyone said not an NBA player. Like not just I don't know if you can win with him.

This guy's not an NBA player. He's a 6'3 guard who can't shoot and really can't handle the ball. He defends very well but offensively where do you put him? And the Warriors said, we'll make him our power forward on offense, and he absolutely played a huge role in that 22 championship team. Well, I don't know what Mike Ryan is doing this with the tier of Aaron Gordon.

Is that fourth best player on a champion? Because the Aaron Gordon. I think he's the third best player on a champion because the Aaron, the Aaron Gordon. I think he's the third best player on a champion. Okay, let's see, okay, maybe third best player on a champion, I would, when the Lakers won the championship with Lamar Odom as their fourth best player, that's the tier I'm talking about. And so when your third or fourth best player is Aaron Gordon

and Aaron Gordon was the best player in Orlando and when he was they were a sub-500 Orlando team no I mean they had a couple years where they weren't sub-500 it clearly wasn't good enough to be a number one but it was as a top three pick as was the Morotem by the way I thought so that's why those guys I kind of feel like they just landed they finally found the right place for them. Maybe not as a franchise player,

but as someone who's a contributor. Whereas Peyton and Fischer are guys who are like, this is the guy, that's the missing piece? Well I guess to whittle it down, what I'm trying to say is, when they acquired Aaron Gordon, very few people were like, oh that's gonna get it done. That's gonna put him over the hump.

It was met with a lot of skepticism, like that's not gonna fix it. But of course, but none of us knew what Jokic was there at then, and none of us did, nobody did. And now what I'm watching, this is, I mean, this is the part I wanna untangle with you because what I'm watching from Denver has at its center, something that for in my lifetime is an unprecedented thing,

who very often makes Jamal Murray and Aaron Gordon or players like them a lot better than they actually are to win a championship because holy shit that's the best offensive thing I've ever seen so how good is Aaron Gordon well probably as good as a third guys put them in there and if Jokic is the one throwing them lobs my guess is they're going to be as good as Aaron Gordon a dunk champion so like a specific skill set how much better? This is one game against OKC, but OKC now has to go through a champion. What they have to do is go through that guy.

Chet Holmgren, you look awfully, you're great. Your defense is great. But Chet Holmgren, you look awfully thin against that guy. Yeah, but I mean, again, at the same time, I think Oklahoma City's defensive game plan worked for most of the night. Their game plan was, he's going to beat us. He's going to score 40, 50, whatever. He's not going to make everyone else better.

He only had, I believe, two assists on the night last night. It worked all the way up to like three minutes left in the game. Again, Dan, I'm watching that game. There was nothing that indicated Denver's got to run in them and they're making a push here. But take me through the late game situation, okay, because the legacies that are defined this time of year, a road win from a champion here is exactly how you put a young great team in a vice grip on how it is you not go say, okay, see out when okay, see has been

the best team in the sport the entire season. And is now going through Jokic is a champion. Take me through the late game situation that makes it so that OKC just lost a game, people are saying, because their coach gave one away and he's playing against the team that fired its coach and is going after a championship because they're saying we don't need any coach. That bad guy, that guy was making it shitty around Jokic and we needed to get the smell of that out of the room. Well, I mean, I think there's a lot going on. That guy was making it shitty around Yo Kitchen. We needed to get the smell of that out of the room.

Well, I mean, I think there's a lot going on. When you want to talk about Denver, David Adam talked about how everyone kind of stayed together. He said even as we were trying to, talking in those huddles and being emotional, it was all about what can we do better? Not like, hey man, you gotta do, it wasn't a lot of finger pointing.

And I think that happens in part because you lose a czar of a leader in Michael Malone, it becomes more collaborative maybe than it was before. You gotta give Coach Adelman credit for fostering that environment. We talk about the Thunder, again, the up foul and up three thing played a part. It wasn't the whole part.

They gave up some easy baskets. Jokic kicked it up a notch. He went four of six on a 12-2 run in the last nine minutes of the game. So he's a great player. You're not gonna bottle him up forever. I think what it is is the Thunder played an easy opponent in the first round.

And now you're playing against a team that can legitimately beat you and There's a difference there because it comes down to execution on both sides of the ball and you can't let up your foot off The gas and they did that at the end They played perfectly for 44 minutes and then these exactly how a young team loses to a champion That's how you go, but that's thankfully it's not one and done. There's six more games perhaps. I think it's a pretty massive error, the fouling up three there with Jokic waiting at the sideline. I'm stunned that Amin is sitting here and not crying foul the way the internet is at the mishandling of a late game situation because you're having the perspective of, no, the players decided that game.

Yeah, because yes, it was a mistake. Yes, it made things more difficult. It wasn't like Jokic came in and hit two threes and that's how they lost the game, right? They're an historically awful team when Jokic is not on the floor and the game was on the line. I get it.

I'm not saying that I would have fouled in that situation. I'm saying when he says, our culture, our philosophy is we foul up three and he says that one's on me that we fouled that early but he wasn't he wasn't saying it's on me that we fat that we change our philosophy in that moment which is what should have happened no I mean like I I I'm he won 68 games dude like like I think that's the thing 68 games just gave away home court yeah and you win one in Denver and then all of a sudden you got it back that's a

crazy thing when people go home court it's like okay you lost on court all you got to do is win one over there and all of a sudden you got it back I know but that's a worst-case scenario for OKC in the second round of the playoffs to have to win one at Denver don't what I'm just saying is what happened last night, I mean, basketball heads like you look at OKC and say, yep, have all the things you need to beat Boston and win a championship. That team is ready to win a championship. Is it? Yes. Okay, because last night starts, that, those guys have been giving fun interviews all year, they're a young team, it's great to watch them and they're fun. But now you gotta beat that player on a team that doesn't even need a coach, because they

got that player. And what they did is got rid of the coach so that player would be unbothered by, hey, get that stink out of here, we know who runs this thing. I just feel like, well, unless you're telling me that Denver's gonna win four more, like three straight games here, like Oklahoma City's not gonna win any more games. Like guys, this is the playoff. I don't know well unless you're telling me that Denver is gonna win four more like three straight games here like Oklahoma City is not gonna win any more game. Like guys this is the playoff I don't know how to explain this to you it's not March Madness like teams lose a game one at home and then come back and win that series. Now if they lose game two now we can have this oh my god young

team how what other deep shit conversation. They lost a game that I don't feel any more in jeopardy about that than the Celtics should or the the