The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - The Big Suey: Huh vs. Hmmm

Episode Date: August 12, 2024

With NFL preseason action over the weekend, Jonathan Taylor debuted the guardian helmet and Jameis Winston went full Jameis Winston. Then, Mike says, from a business perspective, the University of Miami is kicking off their season in Gainesville with THE MOST IMPORTANT GAME IN PROGRAM HISTORY. He details what makes this season so crucial for UM and why they're equipped for it. Plus, Ian O'Connor is one of the final journalists wandering the earth to find the truth, and he has a new book on Aaron Rodgers coming out in just over a week called "Out of the Darkness: The Mystery of Aaron Rodgers." O'Connor shares the way Rodgers' reputation has changed over the last few years, the truth about his famed "Yeah, I've Been Immunized" quote regarding COVID, and why his family broke up the way they did. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Trademarks owned by Becle, SAB, the CV, copyright 2024, próximo. Jersey City, New Jersey, please drink responsibly. Welcome to the Big Sui, presented by DraftKings. Why are you listening to this show? The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan LeBattard podcast. I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize for that. In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging. I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries.

That if they're just there, That hasn't happened to you guys? I've done it. And now, here's the marching man to nowhere, fat face and the habitual liar. Let's move on, Stugatz, to Jonathan Taylor and his guardian cap. Actually, before we do that, forgive me. Video, go back to Jameis Winston, because Jameis Winston over the weekend made a pregame speech that I just wanted to play for the audience, because every word that falls out of the mouth of Jameis Winston, I'd forgotten that he was with the Browns,

I shouldn't have, but he made me do a huh. That's who I was thinking of first with the huh. Then he recalled, like, how did, in their offseason, did they add allegations? That's right, and the way they did it is by bringing this man into their pregame huddle where he did this We got right now We ready! No, I'm about to spell the Browns out. I know we want team, man. I'm going to spell the Browns out. I'm going to be our own judge in there. Come on, Daniel! You going to say that's G&N? Yeah! We're going to be our own judge in there!

That's G&N! 1, 2, 3, 5, 6! 1, 2, 3, 5, 6! They're all bought into it. I got goose bumps. I'm fired. I'm going through a brick of y'all for that guy right now. Do you guys think that the team asked Jameis to do that or he just does it on his own? They're all bought into it. I got goose bumps. I'm fired. I'm going through a brick wall for that guy right now.

Do you guys think that the team asked Jameis to do that or he just does it on his own? It's from the heart. That's a heart thing. That's a guy who's a dog, who walks in and is like, nobody's giving a speech better than I'm giving a speech right now, let's go. That is also Noah Lyles in terms of he gets out on the field

and has no wind left as soon as he starts the game because of everything he expended in the original huddle. The old Ravens will tell you that about seven years in, they got tired of that with Ray Lewis. It stopped being the goose bump thing and it's like, yeah, we've heard all of this. We've heard the dogs are in the same place we put them the last seven years.

Was that after the winning? Yeah, it was after the winning and still, it was like, okay, enough. I know where the dogs are at. We've discussed this every game for seven seasons. Tyler Huntley, also a Brown quarterback. A Brown's quarterback. This is what happens with age. I'm happy to welcome you over to my side, putting S's in the wrong place and taking them out in the wrong place.

Mike, you're in no position to laugh after making us afraid of shark people last week. Yes, he's a Browns quarterback. Yes, I was surprised. I mean, I just figured he'd always be the Ravens backup. I mean. You do understand why people would get tired of that, but I was sucked right in to everything

James Winston was selling because energy and happiness and enthusiasm is contagious. You can borrow it from people when they're that kind of positive, or we're always asking athletes to love what they do, right? That's a preseason game? That's a preseason game. That's a preseason game. I think when it's the preseason or your team is winning, you can digest that. Jameis is

always like that, even when the team is one in 10, you know? And you're like, hey, enough dude. It's kind of like Ray Lewis. I really can't get up for preseason games. I like to watch the rookie quarterbacks perform and see if I can be an expert in the five plays I watch them in. But this preseason for me is just about one thing and it's the guardian caps. Because the NFL over the offseason, those weird guardian caps that we see in practices and scrimmages that go over the helmet, they decided that, hey, we're going to have those available for game action. Now this looks strange. How is this going to work? Is it going to look

like the helmet? Well, they decided we're going to put a little skull cap over the Guardian cap and make it look like the logo. So it looks a little bit more like the helmet. But as you can see here, Jonathan Taylor was the first star player to wear the Guardian cap. And he's been noncommittal about wearing this during the regular season. He said that he just wanted to try it out. I can understand why he's not committed to this because here's the thing about the Guardian caps.

While it may make your brain safer and ultimately that's what everybody wants, people also wanna look cool and you don't look cool wearing this thing and that's what is standing in the way for a lot of people. It just, there are times where he's receiving a handoff in particular and you see a quarterback that's not wearing the Guardian cap and you see it like, this is really strange looking. It'll take guys, I'm happy that he did it because it'll take stars like Jonathan Taylor

to normalize this and maybe it'll become more par for the course across certain positions like running back you can certainly understand why they would have guard oh i don't know why any offensive lineman doesn't just do what that Pittsburgh sealer did just put that on my head i'm constantly getting collided in i'm not a wide receiver i don't have to look good play good but for one weekend it's still kind of odd to me, dude. For those of you who have not seen it, without the draping, it looks like a Lego helmet. And I miss Andrew Luck, because he would lead the way here. He would not be interested in looking cool,

he would be smart enough to say, I'm going to protect my head. But Mike is not, that's right, in fact, yes, he left, saying I'm gonna go protect my head. But to describe it to the audio audience, what I would say to you is it looks like if you put the Colts logo over a Lego helmet and it were to look like the first and only time I ever tried to wallpaper something,

which is that there are a lot of places that are not smoothed out and then I couldn't get it right and then I quit carpentry and all construction work. I lasted one week doing it and then I promptly quit just enough time to pay for my dickies work boots. I have three words that will make this very cool, this helmet, the Lego helmet, OBJ. Put my boy OBJ in the orange one for the Dolphins this year

and I bet you everybody's throughout wearing the Whitman moonwalk. But Mike is right about players wanting to look cool. They wanna be safe, but they wanna look cool when they're playing their sport. And so it's gonna take superstars, megastars, to wear this helmet for it to become common in the NFL. Stigots, we had this conversation with Shaquille O'Neal.

We're like Shaq, you're shooting 50% from the line. Rick Berry says you can do 70 to 80% underhanded. Nope. I don't blame him. Nope, never gonna do it. Not shooting underhanded? No. The answer is no.

I'll lose the championship? Okay, that's fine. I ain't winning it that way. No, no, I prefer'll lose a championship. Okay, that's fine. But I ain't winning it that way. No, I prefer to lose a championship than win one shooting free throws granny style. But the wallpapered helmets that Mike is talking about, it looks wrong. If you see helmets out there,

and I know Chris Cody is worried in general about the red zone experience, but if I tune in for my first red zone experience and those helmets are all over my screen I'm gonna start fiddling with my settings trying to figure out why it is that some of these guys are blurry Are you about to say mess with the bunny ears? The bunny ears come on man the bunny ears was The bunny ears, come on man, the bunny ears was like, I love Lucy. How does he know about bunny ears?

He never said he terminated two. Back in my day, I had one TV set with a little bunny ear. I was like six years old and I remember having to move it around and then it had like a. Well I had, yeah, she had bunny ears and aluminum foil on top of the bunny ears, making it stronger. Put it on the poll please,

did your grandmother's television have bunny ears on it? Your objections, or your fear about the red zone is what, Chris? My fear is not about once the games get going, it's at one o'clock, it's one of my favorite parts of the entire week, it's Scott Hanson, we are ready for seven straight hours and we see the Octobox of commercial free football

and you see the Octobox and it just, I'm so used to how cool the kickoffs looked. And now I saw this pre-season, I'm okay with it in terms of safety and all that, but it doesn't look as cool. When I'm looking at a field before the kickoff and the players are 10 yards from each other, it's just gonna take getting used to.

And right now I was looking at it and I'm just imagining seeing eight of those at once, and I'm just like, oh, this is not as aesthetically pleasing as it used to be. So I'm worried about just the start, my energy level, at the start of my seven straight hours. What you guys are saying is so funny from a couple of perspectives, okay.

First of all, the true absurdity in Mike Ryan arguing correctly that football players, even at the risk of brain health, would want to look sleek. These kickoff rules are because the kickoffs are stupid and dangerous. Like all of the new kickoff rules are just because you can't have guys right guys trying to stay on the fringes of the league Torpedoing down the field at 800 miles an hour I've got her there because their paychecks count on it and they're gonna be in the league for four years of the 49th guy because they're good at just going down the field as fast as they can and Colliding into another human being instead of just erad it, because that's too much for us,

let's keep slowly changing the rules. Slowly changing the rules until a confused Chris Cody gets used to them on Sunday. This also brings the position more attention. There's more receivers, more opportunities now in the league for your Devin Hesters's and and and whatnots So I think that this is great for the NFL in my opinion Well, it's great because it keeps everyone safer and anything that keeps everyone safer is a good thing

I'm just saying the optics of it like I was okay with touchbacks. Give it to me the way it used to look I'm okay with 50 touchbacks, right? I don't need I didn't miss the returns that much, right? I was fine with it. But what if someone breaks one off for a touchdown? It's just the optics though, these guys are like 6 yards away from each other. If they're going to be 6 yards away from each other, onside kick it and don't announce that you're doing it either. Zagack. I'm watching the Summer Games and I can tell you that with all the blood, sweat and tears

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Don LeBattard. I went in the margins. I'm like, I'm like your money ball of sex. I'm basically Scott Hattaburr. A lot of stugats. A lot of walks,. I'm like I'm like your money ball of sex. I'm basically Scott Hattaberg Stugats a lot of walks, but I'm on base When it comes to sex a lot of tips Other other dudes they can be giambi They you know your role you play. I know my role. This is the done libertar show with the Stugats

Stugats I have found myself like super profoundly grateful as we head into our 20 year anniversary just thinking about how absurd it is that all of this that we do is allowed to exist never more so in terms of gratitude than during a time when like the media is shaking and there aren't many jobs available. And one of the things that I'm proudest of that we have here is that A, not very many people leave when they get here, but also that the people who do, the's, the Mena's, the Bomanis, the Dominique's, you see how and where they go, where the Whittinghams, when they, when they leave, they're leaving for these things that no one even thinks

they're leaving. And I rarely feel that kind of pride in general, in, in my life about things we've done, but another place that I felt it recently is when I saw that from within the inside of what it is that we're doing, Mike Ryan joined Kane's Insight as not just a correspondent, but as an owner and watching the last couple of years of him sort of navigating the new college football space as booster and executive and businessman and also journalist but not having to identify as journalists but having his information be better than most we've had a tricky time around here we're often talking too much UM

football and he wanted a space where he can talk about it more and that place we've had a tricky time around here were often talking too much u n football you wanted to space where he can talk about it more and that places in here because people get so annoyed about how much we're talking about u and football around here but they're headed toward what mike is calling any cares about this program stood out in a way i used to see when i was on campus and i'd see people gathered on the corner of pons del lion at what was then mark light stadium and i was like man this is

out of the nineteen fifties this sense of community they have right people gather for a milkshake there's nothing in miami quite like this he's decided to raise his daughter inside that's fear and really be a part of what u is doing. That stuff was happening as you were growing up when the Canes were dominant, when they were winning. They haven't been that in a long time and Mike is still in trench trying to make it happen. It was before UM was winning.

It's when UM baseball was winning and signaling on the beginning of a cable television, what's that weird thing in South Florida where they play sports? They don't have many sports in south florida and was a baseball program on the corner of pons de leon that first was introduced to the country before nineteen eighty three maybe hurricane football of howard schnellenberger but uh...

your your maintaining as someone who not just cares about this program but knows its history you're maintaining from a business perspective that miami is headed into the biggest game it has played since when with the first game against florida i think i've spoken to people uh... administrators around the program people have known this program for a long time, I think if you apply the appropriate context,

the investment that the school has made in athletics is something that fans and alumni were complaining about for decades on end. When you consider that, when you consider the individual and collective investments from the collective, I think that you can make a solid argument. I'm not here to tell you what's most important, but I that you can make a solid argument, I'm not here to tell you what what's most important, but I think you make a solid argument when you consider the inflection point of college athletics and

all those other things that I detailed, including national title games. I think you can make the argument that the game against Florida is the most important game in program history. From an investment standpoint, that's really, that's really what you're doing here. Yeah, you're entering year three of Mario Crisaball. From an evaluation, from an investment standpoint, from where college athletics is going, from on the horizon, who knows if collectives are gonna go away or not,

depending on what Congress decides to do, this is Miami's opportunity to get back to where they once were, and I think you can make a really sound argument that this is the most important game for them ever when it comes to football. No pressure, Cam Ward. Welcome to Miami.

Well, but he looks good, Stu Gutz. I know he looks good. But okay. Hopefully he's not listening right now. No, he needs to be good. I don't think Cam Ward is, I don't think Cam Ward will shy away from that stuff. If you've listened to Cam Ward speak at ACC Media Day,

Kim Ward has a ton of confidence. You're getting a much different personality type there and a much different talent level than you've had at that position before. But they scrimmaged over the weekend and as any fall camp opens up, the defense is going to be well ahead of the offense. That doesn't matter.

That's not a shot on the offense. If they're close, there's an issue. This defense, that defensive line, I will say, this is the most talented defensive line in my adult life around the University of Miami. Since I was of legal drinking age. Mike, hold on. Look, I'm 38 years old, so let's date this back

to when I was 21. In that time, I think Kaleus Campbell was part of one of these D lines. I think this is the deepest, most talented defensive line of my adult life at the University of Miami. I'm not going back to before my adult life, all right? So it might be a little rhetorical trick. No, but no.

Maybe you think I'm older than I am. No, it's not a rhetorical trick. I just remember. Well, we're getting older. I just remember No, it's not a rhetorical trick. I just remember. Well, we're getting older. I just remember, no, I remember Mike coming on here and telling me that at the beginning of one of these seasons that they had a ton of first round picks, a ton of pros along their defensive line.

And yeah, last year I said that there were scouts that were talking to me like, it doesn't just go be like, network goes a little bit beyond UM Homerism, though you can apply that context here and maybe a lot of people listening right now are grateful that i have an outlet to just add my um takes there but i think that miami's when you talk about the talent that they have the body types that they have it is different and i'm not going to gas you up and and and and get your expectations to a point.

My expectations privately are they need to be in the college football playoff. And I think that it's all there for them this season. It really is. And they have the talent to do it. Stugats, I told you, okay, this is my introduction to big time college football, okay, is I am beginning school at the University of Miami in 1986.

I'm coming from Chaminade High School, which at that point wasn't any good at football. I have no access to what big time football looks like. I'm a freshman at the University of Miami, and I walk into the locker room and I'm standing in front of Jerome Brown. I look like a freshman. He does not look like any human being I've ever seen because he's physically bigger. And what I noticed when the University of Miami went from that to probation to the Ryan Clement years is I'd walk into the locker room and the kids got pimples on their face. And I'm like, oh, okay. So I was introduced

to something that I thought was, this is all of college football. It is not. It is Jerome Brown at the top of college football. Then I see what mediocre college football looks like. Then I watch here over the last few years of what's been built. Oh, De'eric King can play for most teams, but the people around him aren't good enough and aren't big enough and aren't fast enough.

De'eric King is someone who excites me at quarterback but the rest of what's around him is not the university of miami's the top twenty team because they gave mario christobal that money to be the guy who gets those guys don't know if you can coach a well don't know if he's gonna screw up games in the fourth quarter important part of the actually do know is gonna screw up games in the fourth quarter. Actually, do know he's gonna screw up games in the fourth quarter. Do know that.

But he might have so much talent that they can overcome it. But you might see a University of Miami football team that looks a little more to you like the Michigan team looked last year. Yeah, there was a lot of excitement and I've been excited about previous teams before and I've gone to practices before and I've talked myself into things. Juju, you remember that Alabama football game that we went

to in Atlanta? We were all super excited. We had we get to the stadium grounds, we have field level access, we see our canes come out, all right cool, all right let's do this, let's hang tight and then Alabama comes out and they'd line up across the field from our guys and you realize damn we don't look like we have a shot. I'll give you a case example of what it is. I've been to practices going several years there and one of the body types that I would say like who is that is this guy Chase Smith who's still around the program. Chase Smith would walk around and I'd wonder aloud this guy's the biggest guy on the team,

why is this guy not first guy off the bus? This guy looks incredible, why isn't he playing? Second biggest guy was Lou Headley, the punter. Now, Chase Smith is still around at practice, fighting for playing time. His body does not stick out at all, at all. The body types have totally changed. Yeah, Mario Crisabal is exactly who he was reputed to be from a talent acquisition standpoint, from a body type standpoint, from the type of football he wants to play.

I think that they are ranked 19 because everybody has a healthy respect for the talents. These aren't like talents that you have question marks about. We've seen Cam Ward do what he did in Washington State. We've seen these D linemen both here and in their other programs deliver. I think they're 19 because people have their reservations about Mario Crisible which I think last year proved to be fair. So he's got to do the damn thing. You can make the argument, I love D Eric King as a quarterback, but you can make the argument given that Ken Dorsey wasn't a professional talent. he was a low-round pick who was Heisman worthy because everything in their huddle was so overwhelming, that Cam Ward is the most special talent they've had at the position this century. This in the 2000s because again Ken Dorsey, if

you go back and look at old film of Ken Dorsey and you will see Andre Johnson running wide open and be like, that's not a great throw. That's like a really bad throw. But those Cain's teams would do that with Craig Erikson, with Walsh, I mean. That's even older. You're going back even further.

But occasionally I'll walk in a sandbar and they'll have like old Cain's games on the TV and I'm super excited to watch Ken Dorsey. I'm like, wow, that did not feel like this. A lot of Glowito's being thrown. Yes, and poorly, and he missed a lot of people. Yes, but Mike, you wouldn't dispute that, right? As the new co-owner of Kane's Insight

and a correspondent for Kane's Insight and now more and more of a University of Miami voice, you wouldn't dispute what I'm saying as a physical talent. As physical talents, and Tyler Van Dyke looked the part, and he had a big arm. The problem is he couldn't read a zone. And if you talk to Kane Ward privately, he's like, zone's easy, I just find the pockets,

what's a big deal about zone? Like, it took the NCAA like a minute to figure out, oh, Tyler Van Dyke doesn't know how to play against his own. But I'm not gonna, I said a lot of flattering things of Tyler Van Dyke entering seasons, and I'm not gonna take that away. He looked the part, he had a big arm, but there were just certain aspects

of the game he didn't get. This dude, Kim Ward, has the confidence, certainly has the arm talent to do it. Brings some mobility to the position that we haven't seen since Dierrick King. Dierrick King probably would like a word in terms of like biggest talent, even though he was very, very small. Cam Ward can take a hit. Hopefully we don't see him take a hit. He's got a good body type.

Cam Ward appreciates a challenge to watch him at some of these practices. He's a really competitive dude. He's got enough talent on the outside. I think if you can have any question marks, even though they're bringing back practically 2,000 yard receivers and brought Sam Brown in, who's got NFL prospects, very exciting. And we'll see if Arroyo at tight end can actually give you something out of that position.

I think the question marks that you have as you enter year three of Mario Crisipal is we gotta get a little bit more on the outside. And I think that secondary is a real question mark, but the front seven should alleviate a lot of those concerns. But O-line, D- D line running back room for certain and quarterback most talented team entering season in quite some time I'd say 2016 had a lot of sneaky NFL in your adult life

2016 yeah, well in terms of D line best right in my adult life, but in terms of NFL talent 2016 the year before they were good before But in terms of NFL talent, 2016, the year before they were good, before 2017, if you remember in 2016, they lost a lot of one-score games. Same thing happened last year. Miami lost a lot of one-score games, and that's historically a pretty good indicator year over year, especially if you add talent the way that Miami has. Year over year, if a team lost a lot of one-score heartbreakers, you can count on the math working out the following year, and that's what I hope happens with Miami.

The answer might be different for everyone, But when does adult life start, huh? About 18 18 some people say 21 some people say after your bar mitzvah Some people say after the first time you had sex That's not a movie showgirls put it on the pole at LeBata show. When does adult life begin 21 18? Your bar mitzvah or after the movie showgirls or the first time you have sex a lot has changed over the years listening audience hey it's Mike Ryan one thing that hasn't the great taste of Miller Lite now you know over the course of our history doing this show Miller Lite's kind of

been there for the vast majority of it and I have been a very public-facing fan of the beverage. Why? Well, that's been up for debate for a long time, pretty much since 1975. But one thing that is not up for debate? The undebatable quality and great taste of Miller Lite. The fact that it is only 96 calories. This is a beer that strips everything away that you don't need and holds on to what matters most. Less filling, great taste, a light beer that tastes like beer. You don't have to choose what you like best.

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Don LeBattard. Billy, somebody has written in here, I need way more. I'm sorry. I just said in his headset, haven't you been to all of them too? It sounded like you were speaking aloud, my bad. Totally on me. 100% on me. Stugats!

But that goes without saying. That it couldn't have happened without me. He didn't say it off the air again. Greg, why? My apology is sincere. Why, Greg? Greg. He apologized. Greg. why? Greg. Yeah. Greg.

He apologized. Greg. Sincerely. This is the Don LeBathard Show with the Stugarts. A person on Twitter has whispered to us, what does O-L-I stand for? Whispered. It's a whisper. He's ashamed to ask.

It's outside looking in. Don't make, we're inclusive here, Tony. Don't make that person feel bad. I was going to say you ashamed to ask it's outside looking in don't make we're inclusive here Tony Don't make that person feel bad. I was gonna say you need to whisper back Outside looking in thank you Tony also I can still do it on ESPN barely barely your voice is shut You've never totally been able to whisper You would have a hard time doing 90 seconds in that voice. We'll see. We're gonna bring in E.O. Connor in a second.

Not surprisingly, if you're tuned into ESPN this morning, Kendrick Perkins says that LeBron has now passed MJ because of that shot, and Mike Greenberg is saying Steph Curry's shot is the greatest in the history of basketball. So we've gotta, this is how we celebrate excellence. It's not even the greatest in the history of basketball. So we've got to, this is how we celebrate excellence. If we can't. It's not even the greatest.

Steph Curry shot. If we can't criticize you, we have to go the other way, and this is why it is, it's so hard for entities to just celebrate greatness. Also, in the previous segment, I think you had Mina and Dominique and Pablo leaving us. I don't think that's exactly how that one went. Thank you for the correction.

I could be pride, prideful of it nonetheless. It's my pride list. You were thinking that too, huh? It is. It is what I'm proud of. I snuck Whittingham in there to make it more. I was like, Pablo's with us. I think you heard what you were saying and then you're like, oh, witty.

No, that one actually works. Ian, thank you for joining us. I was telling the folks that Ian O'Connor and Stugatz was telling the folks that it's good to see that there's still a journalist out there wandering the earth in interest of finding the truth, of getting to the bottom of the truth. A fact-finding mission. That's right. So I've known this person for a very long time.

He's a four-time New York Times bestselling author. His books are exhaustively reported. he's an exceptional writer as well his latest book is out on Tuesday the 20th and it's called out of the darkness the mystery of Aaron Rodgers it's 250 interviews including Rodgers himself it's already making headlines it's gonna make more headlines and I'm genuinely puzzled Ian and I'm happy to talk to you because I don't know what happened to Aaron Rodgers so can you tell me what happened to Aaron Rodgers what happened was covid I think that to those 4 words

yeah, I've been immunized in August of 21 changed his entire life because before that he was actually considered one of the good guys and one of the more socially aware athletes in the NFL and beyond. And obviously, after misleading the public, effectively lying about his status, and we saw in November, he test positive for COVID as an unvaccinated player, he's never recovered from that in a public image context. And so he became a villain that day. And that's what public image context. And so he became a villain that day,

and that's what happened to him, because before that point, he was, he supported Colin Kaepernick's stance, he supported the athletes who were kneeling during the anthem, he was involved in charitable causes for victims of the war in the Congo, he, what else did he do? He had a thoughtful response to Drew Brees's stance on the anthem, he was considered one of the war in the Congo. He, what else did he do? He had a thoughtful response to Drew Brees's stance on the anthem.

He was considered one of the good guys in the NFL and in American sports. And that all changed with those four words. Yeah, I've been immunized. Is Aaron aware of that, that he's turned into a villain? Oh yeah, yeah, he's aware of it. He's spoken in the past about that day, really in August of 21.

And there's a story now up on ESPN.com out of my book, where he now says that if he had to do that all over again, he would not have said that he would have told his truth. And his truth was that he was allergic to an ingredient in Moderna and Pfizer, those vaccines, he was concerned about in Moderna and Pfizer, those vaccines, he was concerned about side effects, possible side effects with Johnson & Johnson, and that the reason he didn't tell the truth that day is because he was concerned it was going to impact his appeal with the league.

And in retrospect, he should have just said, I'm concerned about these vaccines, I'm not getting vaxed, and told the truth. And I told him, and sitting in his backyard in Malibibu basically that if I were a columnist in Green Bay or Milwaukee and I can't guarantee this because I wasn't sitting in the room and you told the truth and I was vaccinated at the time I would have found that to be a somewhat reasonable position I don't think I would have ripped you in a column that day and I think you would have gotten a fraction of the criticism you ultimately got in november when the truth came out

again the name of the book is out of the darkness the mystery of aaron rogers and he's talked to two hundred and fifty people i read something that was aggregated the other day i don't know if it's from your book or not about the breaking up of his family over the fact that he was having premarital sex with olivia mon on game day is that from your bookers that from elsewhere is that is that uh... i what are the interesting things around his family stuff that you discovered was part of it

was obviously his family was devoutly religious and he was raised in that environment and i think he ultimately rebelled against that and that rebellion planted a seed for other rebellions. And certainly that wasn't the factor or the primary factor in his estrangement, but the fact of the matter is that his mother, particularly very devoutly religious, and she was morally opposed to premarital sex,

and that applied to him in her mind, even after he had won the Super Bowl, and he was asked by her, when you travel with your girlfriend, are you staying in separate rooms? And so listen, my mother taught me premarital sex was a bad thing too, so I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm just saying that that's an example

of something that did bother him. And, but this was, this estrangement, there's not, everybody's looking for one singular reason why. And it's gone on for nearly 10 years. It's death by a thousand cuts. There's not one reason why. And certainly he could not illustrate that to me. And his parents still say they don't know why

he doesn't talk to them anymore and hasn't for nearly 10 years. So it's a lot of he said, he said, he said, she said, I think religion is, was a bigger part of it early. years. So it's a lot of he said, he said, he said, she said, I think religion is was a bigger part of it early now not so much a big part of it. His best friend Jordan Russell, I think has a key quote in the book, where he says that when Aaron believes that a family member or a friend is laying claim to

something based on his accomplishments and extent success, he will go out of his way to make sure that person earns his or her own way and i think that's a big part of it now is that he feels like the family unit revolved too much around his success and it was something that he rebelled against is his brain internet fried i think that's part of the ticket

i think he is on the internet all the time i don't think you admit that public consumption but i think he's a very very well-read guy i think he actually reads too much or too much of the of the wrong material out there on the web and and another forms but i think that's a fair way of putting it what do you think was interesting when you are uh... you you report these

things for people don't understand the amount of time effort and work that it goes into crafting something the way in o'connor would insist on it being crafted if it has his name on it uh... when you're reporting this water the items that jumped out to you again and again is like whoa that's that surprising didn't know that we think the way he's covered in the media i think most fans would believe that his teammates don't like them

and at the opposite is true he's universally loved and admired around the nfl by the players and i think that had to count for something he's getting the most amount of time with them and outside a couple guys who've ripped him at times over the years, Greg Jennings and Michael Finley, man, it's pretty impressive. I talked to one prominent NFL figure who knows hundreds upon hundreds of NFL players. And this figure told me he hated Aaron Rodgers, basically, he couldn't stand

them and anything, or anything that he he stood for. But he said, I have to admit, I've never met an NFL player who doesn't like him. And so that that was surprising. And I think that would be surprising to a lot of fans who reading the way he's covered, and we all know a lot of his wounds are self inflicted. But I think fans would be almost shocked by that that his teammates see him as a great teammate and leader, and just being around the Jets the last year and a half,

it's amazing to a man that they really have a tremendous amount of admiration for Aaron Roder. Just pre-ordered the book on Audible, it drops next week. Gotta read the shit out of this with my ears. Nice. Well, I'm telling the audience here that this person, Ian O'Connor, when he tackles something, it's not just 250 interviews, this has been an obsession for you for how many years now? How long have you been working on this?

How many months have you been working on this straight? This one was shorter than my average book in terms of time. I left my job and a fair amount of money to do this. I had never written a book or reported a research book without a full-time job on the side, so to speak. I left my columnist job at the New York Post to focus on this because I felt it needed to come out while he was still active and still playing. And actually, Dan, I was going to do a book on your guy LeBron.

I was under contract to do that biography, but what happened was Jeff Benedict came out with a book I didn't realize was in the works and I thought there might be a little LeBron fatigue. And then Aaron Rodgers gets traded into my backyard in New York and figured he's probably the most prominent American male athlete who hasn't had a defining book written about him.

So I made the trade LeBron for Aaron Rodgers and hopefully it was a good one. LeBron, another one of those who came through here and then went on to better things. I'm very proud of him. Your guy, he left us, he I'm very proud of him. You're a guy. He left us. He did. Very proud of him as well. Summer's the best time to run the way you want.

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