The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - The Big Suey: If You Say Geno Smith's Name ONE More Time...

Episode Date: March 10, 2025

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Cuervo. The tequila that invented tequila. Proximo. Cuervo.com, please drink responsibly. Queerville. Welcome to the Big Suey, presented by DraftKings. Why are you listening to this show? The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan LeBattard podcast.

I'm sorry, I'm not gonna apologize for that. In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging. I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys? I've done it. And now, here's the marching man to nowhere, fat face, and the habitual liar. This episode of the Dan LeBittard Show with Stu Gotz is presented by Smirnoff.

We do game days. Please drink responsibly. The Smirnoff Company, New York, New York We will check in with Roy from the Panthers press conference. Marshawn has been introduced. He's wearing the red He says it brings out the color in his eyes He will be on the road trip with the Panthers as it begins in Boston where he will say hello to his ex teammates and that one's going to be something that hurts Boston fans.

That's logistically stupid, right? Make him come down here for a press conference just to go right back to Boston? What did we do that for? Just wait. That's a good point. It's not like he's playing right now. Why did he fly down here?

What's the hurry? They could have just introduced him in Boston. I mean, he's on the team now. I'm sure he's looking for an apartment around here. The idea that he's just gonna stay up there for three weeks. You wanna delay practice. You wanna delay it on boarding with a new franchise.

You'll get it. I mean, I don't want him playing regardless, so go for it. I want to talk to you guys about some of the movement in football over the weekend. DK Metcalf requested a trade in Seattle. The Geno Smith era in Seattle as he gets traded to the Raiders and the Raiders say we want stability at coach and quarterback and so we're going to get Geno Smith and Pete Carroll. I think I can argue that Geno Smith is a top 10 quarterback. It's a bit of a rhetorical trick.

At one point I said that Rex Grossman was one of the top 10 quarterbacks in the NFL because he slid in at number 10 when he was making it to the Super Bowl. Gino Smith was unlucky in a couple of fronts. He turned the ball over more than he should have according to the metrics. He had 15 interceptions, but he was unlucky.

He was pretty good with the football and pretty good with the football even though that offensive line is bad I don't think in Las Vegas with Bowers that they have the skill guys that Seattle had But I ask you guys what you make of Geno Smith and the Geno Smith era in Seattle. Do you guys remember anything? Did they did that era win a playoff game? He could throw for 4,000 yards He was better than any of us thought he would ever be and I can make the argument that he fits in the top 10

Quarterbacks in the NFL you made a face. Yeah, I don't think anybody Other than you is calling Geno Smith a top 10 quarter. It's a rhetorical trick once you get into 8 9 and 10 You're talking about interchangeable pieces. Okay. I'm looking at an dot com ranking here they do have in twelve which is higher than than i would have them uh... like you say he he's a turnover guy you know fifteen interceptions where it way a lot and no matter what the metrics say that's still a lot of trouble wait a minute though the metrics do require

some examination because he's got as many into interceptions cousins and baker had more but his offensive line was bad. And I want to do the assessment on DK Metcalf. What's Pittsburgh doing here? Are they going to keep Metcalf and Pickens? Are they going to keep Metcalf and Pickens? And now what's this sourcing that has Aaron Rodgers as somebody in Pittsburgh that is being linked to Pittsburgh?

I thought when they got DK Metcalf, I was of the opinion that they they were doing that for Russell Wilson that signaled to me that there was going to be something between Russell Wilson and DK Metcalf How do DK Metcalf and Pickens fit together? What are we doing there with that? That's just they have two good receivers now and they had one and now they have two they were doing that in the other room Like the same guy. It's like yeah, they're both good. They're gonna find a quarterback They're not the same guy and Pickens I don't know Pickens is unusual and there seemed to be issues with him in

Pittsburgh in the locker room and it made it seem to me like Pickens wasn't gonna be there very much longer independent of DK Metcalf Well, I'm not a father, but I can tell you it's possible They could trade George Pickens and get that second round pick back But this was a desperate need for the Steelers last season they really needed more bodies at the wide receiver position they try to trade for Mike Williams and they got a couple touchdowns out of him but it wasn't like it didn't change anything and then when Pickens was hurt the offense completely fell apart they really didn't have any downfield threats for Russell Wilson so

this is something that I think the Steelers needed to do but there's still obviously a question of who is going to actually be their quarterback now because it could be Aaron Rodgers. It sounds like it still could be Justin Fields or Russell Wilson, but maybe leans more towards Russell Wilson of the two of them. It could be like a fourth option. It could be Sam Darnold. It just maybe they should have looked harder at Stafford. There's no really great options right now for teams like Pittsburgh and Seattle who are gonna need quarterbacks for next season because this is a pretty weak quarterback draft

and free agency is not, a lot of these teams don't wanna pay these players the contracts that they're about to earn because they're just not that great. Do we believe this Aaron Rodgers interest? Popping up a lot of places. Feels like spin from an agent. Just trying to keep his name in there. It's interesting how it's being reported

because it's just like Schefter constantly opening up the door like, hey, they're talking about him. And that's kind of the reporting that we get on it, which was kind of what happened this morning, which is as they still try to have conversations with Justin Fields and Russell Wilson, another name that's being invoked is Aaron Rodgers. And that's kind of how the reporting is being done that Aaron always seems like someone's like plan B plan C

For the Steelers it also like what is Russ's number because it's not a million dollars a year Which is what they had him for last year, right? So like now that they've given DK 30 million dollars How much are you going to give to the quarterback? Like are you going to draft a quarterback or are you going to get like a middle level quarterback? You have fields that you could get probably for cheaper than you can get Russ at this point. And like the Aaron Rodgers thing,

I mean any team that has a quarterback need now that's looking for an established quarterback, even though he didn't have a great season last year, is better than gambling on a- Kirk Cousins. Daniel Jones maybe. Right I agree. Aaron Rodgers the second half of last season was really good. If you look at his second half numbers he was Pro Bowl quality just in

the second half but he got so much heat for not lifting the Jets and and that's rightful heat but still he's got something left. I would much rather have Aaron Rodgers. I'm surprised the Raiders didn't sign him and me I would rather have Aaron Rodgers than Gino Smith as my starting. But he's a stopgap right like you're just getting for basically next season and then working. If you're close enough and you need a serviceable quarterback you take a chance on Aaron Rodgers or if you're a terrible team that just wants to make a splashy move, you get Aaron Rodgers. But I feel like we all have Aaron Rodgers amnesia

for some reason. Like the reason the Jets were bad the first half of the season was also because of Aaron Rodgers. Like, yeah, cool. Like, they turned things around for the last five meaningless games of the season. But do we not remember the whole thing for the last two years?

I understand why a team wouldn't want to sign him. The Vikings make sense in that JJ McCarthy missed all of last season with an injury, so you still don't really know what you have in JJ McCarthy. So if he is still your plan going forward, you bring in Aaron Rodgers for a season to get you to JJ,

because JJ, after sitting out a season, probably isn't ready to be your starter, and I don't think that you're ready to commit to Sam Darnold long term, which is probably what Sam Darnold is looking for this off season. Aaron Rodgers isn't gonna be a backup. No, he's not gonna be a backup.

That's what we're saying. He's gonna be a starter for one of these. If he will, I'm saying, JJ McCarthy is their future there, so much so that they're willing to let go of a Sam Darnold who performed well with those skilled guys and who i'd i don't believe erin rogers is going to be going anywhere where he's not allowed to be the start of the thing i wanted to talk to you about that i always have

difficulties on tangling and i remember the first time i had difficulties on tangling it the uh... the dallas cowboys champion dallas cowboys had michael urvin and alvin harper both of them thought they were number one receivers Alvin Harper was a number two receiver Alvin Harper became a number one receiver for Tampa and wasn't as good in Tampa because he didn't have Michael Irvin. DK Metcalf the last couple of seasons and I asked the audience this do you consider him not in body type and looks a number one receiver do you consider him in production a number one receiver because the last couple of seasons he's got like sixty catches a season and that's generally not what i associate with the

number one receiver now there are a couple of franchises and only a couple that now have the benefit that Belichick used to have whenever he added Ocho Cinco and Albert Hainsworth and people said well he must know something he's great he's gonna get something out of him and then he didn't. Devontae Adams goes to the Rams and all of us are like ah that's gonna that's gonna be something with the Rams like whatever it hasn't been the last couple of years I think that that's gonna be something with the Rams.k metcalf is what i present him to you and say who is more likely to be a real number one the way

that you expect them to be a number one this year in going forward pickings or dk metcalf because there's going to be a packing order in pittsburgh and then you get to the a j brown situation in philadelphia where's it where he's a number one he knows is a number one in the moment he stops being a number one he starts getting mad about things i think the came at gap is a legitimate number one receiver uh... he had his size six four with his speed

i think he's a number one he's got forty eight career touchdowns in five or six years he's at least twenty seven he's in his prime uh... receivers you know he's got another good few years you associate sixty six catches with the number one receiver sixty because he what he does is he's not always open he's he gets you some touchdowns but sixty six catches is pretty that's not a high usage rate that's a guy who's getting shut down in some games and the number ones in this league don't really get shut down as some games. And the number ones in this league don't really get shut down.

They also have three good receivers in Seattle that they spread the wealth to with Lockett and JSN. So I think that DK Metcalf, I am a little worried, big bodied wide receivers historically drop off a little bit earlier, but they have two good wide receivers. I think a lot, what a lot of people are doing is they have the same jersey number.

How's that gonna work out between Pickens and DK Metcalfe? That is a good question. Who is gonna wear 14 next season? Pickens, right? If they're both on the Steelers. I mean, you're the new guy. You gotta get a new number. I eat.

But if you're the guy that just signed the huge contract, are you gonna pay for the number? Money talks, as we learned with Miles Garrett. Can you guys find any images that suggest that DK Metcalfe already has a lot of jewelry with number 14 on it and is going to pay a good deal of money in order to have that number so that he could either keep his jewelry or sell it to George Pickens?

To answer the original question, I think Geno Smith is a top four quarterback in Seahawks history. And he's borderline Jersey retirement guy. And if he were around when they had some of their better teams, they would have had the same number of Super Bowl wins at the very least. and he's borderline Jersey retirement guy. And if you were around when they had some of their better teams, they would have had the same number of Super Bowl wins at the very least. You know, Smith?

We're doing Hasselbeck, we're doing Wilson. Who's the third? I think you go Craig. Jim Zorn. Zorn over Craig? I mean, the numbers are so different. I'm guessing Jim Zorn threw a million interceptions at a time when people threw a million interceptions.

And so he probably doesn't age very well in terms of passing yardage for that franchise Geno Smith is fifth last year in terms of passing yardage. Geno Smith was four. I think it's a great deal for all parties I think that they're not gonna keep Geno Smith long term in Seattle They want to tether a quarterback a franchise quarterback to this head coach We're at the tail end of Geno Smith's career. For the Raiders, it's a great idea. No one was really thinking that Gino Smith was available. They missed out on Stafford. You have Brady kind of intertwined with their decisions there. You have Gino kind of hold it down for a year, maybe bring up a guy that you develop. It's a perfect, perfect trade. And you reunite him

with a coach that he had some success with him Pete Carroll DK Metcalf wore 14 in college George Pickens at Georgia wore number one So Pickens could look back is there number one on the Steelers right now? Maybe it's which to one by the way George Pickens in three seasons has 52 63 and 59 catches It's not like he's a hundred catch a year Oh, but I'm so run first offense that hasn't had a great quarterback for several years. But neither has Metcalf, you could argue. To that point, I don't think either of them are going to be a 100 catch guy with the Steelers. They're not going to change their whole way of doing business.

But Geno Smith in 2022 was better than anything the Steelers have had since Ben Roethlisberger retired. Greg's doing unfair things to Geno Smith when he's comparing him unfavorably to a 40-year-old Aaron Rodgers, and he's doing so because of the history of Geno Smith more than he's doing than the recent Geno Smith. Like he's going back 10 years on Geno Smith when he's getting punched by a teammate in the Jets locker room and whatever the numbers were back then. Geno Smith has reinvented himself almost entirely but I asked the group and I asked the audience did they win a playoff game with Gino Smith there because they may have but I

don't remember it. I don't think so I know that they gave San Francisco a run for their money at San Francisco in the playoffs but I don't think they want to play. But I think this is what we do with Gino Smith we oversimplify this based on both his past and the fact that we associate quarterbacks with winning in a way that's not totally fair, given that there are a lot of things that go into winning. But Geno Smith, I feel like everyone listening to this knows that what you're gonna get with Geno Smith is you're gonna be a 500 team that's not gonna win

in the playoffs, no matter what team you put him on. That's the Steelers also. The number one jersey is retired in Pittsburgh, by the way. Has not been reissued in a long time. Who wore it? Gary Anderson. The kicker? The kicker?

The kicker? The one with the one face mask? What? I was talking about too many numbers being retired, man. You weren't talking about that. Is Greg doing this unfairly with Geno Smith because I don't think Geno Smith has been able to erase with Greg what his reputation is even though over the last three or four seasons Geno Smith has been a wildly productive quarterback. He still throws a

lot of interceptions. I'm aware that two or three years ago he had a big comeback season okay. At this point in his career for me Geno Smith is a great veteran I'm aware that two or three years ago he had a big comeback season. Okay? At this point in his career, for me, Geno Smith is a great veteran backup, or a guy who you can trust to be your stopgap starter while you wait for J.J. McCarthy to bloom. Something like that. I just don't see him as a guy you sign thinking, all right, we're solved now. We got four or five years of great quarterbacking. I just don't think he's that guy.

But he's also taking over a team that was four and 13 that didn't have a quarterback. So like, even if he gets you to 500, that is a huge upgrade from where the Raiders were last season. Okay, but Tom Brady knows better than anybody. Is that your answer? Is this a guy you're satisfied with?

I mean, maybe not long term, but like you just signed Max Crosby, who you're going to be building around, right? And he commanded a lot of money. Are you going to overtake the Chiefs in the AFC West? Probably not. You're probably playing for a wild card spot. If you get nine, 10 wins, you can make the playoffs.

Gino Smith can give you that. I'd like to read you some things that I think run counter empirically to what it is Greg thinks he's right about here when he just looks at 15 interceptions and that is his assessment of Geno Smith. This is a, and you don't tend to like this stuff from Pro Football Focus, but I'm just going to read it, okay, because it does a deeper dive on those turnovers than you are presently doing. Per Pro Football Focus, Smith had a league average turnover worthy play rate of 2.6%. That tied him

with Josh Allen, the league's MVP. Josh Allen was wildly efficient when it came to turnovers this year and it puts him ahead of Tua, Jordan Love, Goff, Stafford, Darnold and Hertz, all of whom had better offensive line play than Gino Smith. He ranks 14th in career dropbacks among active players with 10 of the players above him having entered the league after him per true media. It makes him harder to evaluate based on true talent level,

but he did throw a lot of passes over his three seasons as Seattle starter. Only Mahomes had more dropbacks over that span. And according to pro football focus is grading only six quarterbacks performed better than Geno Smith during that time. Their names are Burrow Lamar Jackson, Justin Herbert, Alan Mahomes, and Tua. Easy upgrade for, for their roster. Much better than Minshew O'Connell, Ritter. Well that's true, I'll admit that.

They need to get the running game in order, but the sneaky thing about the Raiders is they had 2,000 yard receivers. Bowers and Jacoby Myers in 15 games also had more than 1,000 yards receiving this year, just did it with very little fanfare because they weren't playing meaningful games. I mean why do you think Geno Smith went one, two, three, four, five, like eight years in a row in his career without being a starting quarterback starting two games in an eight-year period

i think you're you're talking like your jeno smith's agent and and stats can be maneuvered and and jiggered and wiggled to to say just about anything you can look at pro football focus you can look at that kind of analytics and come up with any reason why any quarterback is great. But Greg, it's got more information than your opinion, which is just based on five years ago, like what you thought five years ago and hasn't changed.

There's more empirical data in what, yes, you can make it say anything, but what I just made it say was pretty impressive. But what you guys are arguing is Greg's saying he's the 12th best quarterback and you're saying he's the 10th. So what are we actually really arguing about? Sports. I mean, he's saying he's a top 10 best quarterback and you're saying he's the 10th. So what are we actually really arguing about? Sports. I mean, he's saying he's a top 10 quarterback in the NFL.

I'm saying at this point in his career, he's a great veteran backup. If you want a veteran backup as a safety net, and he's a guy that you're fine as a one-year stopgap. I think it's somewhere in the middle between both of you. 11. So, hmm. Historically not something that you say about someone that's top four in passing yards

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slash dlb. The guide is free to you at netsuite.com slash dlb, netsuite.com slash dlb. Howdy folks, it's Mike Ryan. I talk to you about Miller time all the time, but we're in the winter time right now. And one of my favorite past times is to crack open a Miller light and enjoy myself some Miller time during the winter time because when there's a brisk chill in the air, it just makes everything right. My friends and I who live down here in South Florida can actually sit outside because it's not super muggy. We can thoroughly enjoy our Miller Time together. And for you listening, I know there's a lot of things going on right

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options near you, or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. Tastes like Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. Dan Lebatard. Sports. Stugats. More sports. This is the Dan Lebatard Show with the StuGats.

I was looking up, by the way, since you guys are talking about stats and how you can manipulate stats to tell you anything you want because we were talking about Kevin Love earlier and retiring him and why they retire him. I found three Cleveland Cavalier stats in which Kevin Love is the all-time leader. Defensive rebound percentage, defensive rebounds for 36 minutes and defensive rebounds for 100 possessions So there you go all-time great in three random stats. There you go. Not even the best love in NBA history Bob love Chicago Bulls. Let's go put them next to each other's Bob love indeed better than Kevin love I don't know his career enough to know whether Bob love is indeed better than Kevin love

Do we put this on the pole Bob love Chicago Bulls Let's Go, Yes or No? Yes, put that on the poll at Levitard Show and tell me all you know about Bob Love because I really do believe that at this Point and I think you should be allowed at your age You've settled so comfortably into your ignorance That there is no new information I can't that I can give you that you wouldn't wave off with a hand because you already know better and you're like sit facts

and stats and data and all of your proof otherwise i'd dismiss it based on my gut feeling the easiest that to dismiss is passing yards that you put up you put any backup quarterback in the right offense with the right receivers and he's going to pass for 4,000 yards. But wait a minute. Let's just wait a minute. Okay? It's a hard position to play. There aren't many good ones. What would Geno Smith have to do? What would I have to present to

you to change your mind that's already formed and hardened about what Geno Smith is, what you think him to be when what he's been in this league has been somebody statistically. I still maintain, if you can get the sound of how accurate this was, I think it's one of, it's got to be the most amazing prediction in the history of our show. Where Amin, before a a season started when everyone's opinion was what yours is of jeno smith amin el hassen our basketball expert gave us a prediction on what it is that jeno smith would do that season and those

statistics that he predicted that we all thought were outlandish were good enough greg that you would want it to be your quarterback for all but five or six of the teams in the league, because we will put next to the prediction. We will get you the actual stats. I cannot believe that an NFL team in 2022 is entering the year with Gino Smith as their quarterback. We'll see drew like this season. Yeah, of course. We'll see a third.

Scorching. We'll see a third. We'll see a third quarterback. We'll see them be linked with every like Jimmy Garoppolo is going to get waves. He might go there. Like I just, I just can't fathom. I can't fathom that an NFL team decided after eight months of like being able to plan for a draft for free agency for quarterbacks coming available via trade. They're like, you know what we're gonna do Gino Smith I submit to you 4,000 yards for Gino Smith impossible impossible 30 studies 11 ints I will I mean if that exact stat line

happens I will sit and do this show in my underpants hmm. There's there is no way career 34 touchdowns 37 interceptions From your bathtub 34 Geno Smith does this for yourself King Four thousand what you say 32 touchdowns Let me write that down. 4K. 4,000, what'd you say, 32 touchdowns, 11 interceptions? 30 and 11.

30 and 11? 30 touchdowns, 11. I will do the show. I mean, it's attainable. I will do the show for my bathtub if this happens. So he said 4,000 yards, 30 touchdowns, 11 interceptions. That season, Gino Smith, 4,300 yards, 30 touchdowns, 11 interceptions.

That's nuts. And Bob Love has his number retired by the Bulls. Number 10. There you go. Put their stats next to each other. That's nuts and Bob love has his number retired from he does the bulls number time go What put their stats? Next to each other Bob love and Kevin love I want to put them next to each other love three-time all-star Kevin love Billy Well five but only two times for the Cavs So Cavs I mean, I don't know why they're retiring Bob love had like a six or seven eight year period in the middle of his career Where he was top 20 in MVP voting each year. Top 20. Well he was averaging 22 points. Tyler

Heroes top 20 in MVP voting. He was top five a couple of years I think. Bob Love's number 41 is also retired by the Southern Jaguars. There you go that's the biggest honor of all. Are you guys gonna just skip past how amazing that a mean prediction was? Like that is and and that Kevin that Chris Whittingham hasn't actually paid off What he owes any of what he owes but especially that he did like in a shower It doesn't it didn't count obviously we also we always talk about how right a mean is but we never talk about how wrong Chris and Tony were in this or how wrong Amin is all the other times. I but we never talk about how wrong Chris and Tony were in this. Or how wrong Amina is all the other times.

I think the funniest thing was Witty referring to underpants. Who says the word underpants? Put it on the poll at Lebatard Show. Do you use the word underpants? Yes or no? There's only two other Southern Jaguars who have their number retired, Avery Johnson and Bobby Fills. Wow, how about that?

A lot of bulls have their numbers retired. See, that's good intel. I don't need a breakdown of useless analytics. I want stats like that. The Bulls only have a couple players with their numbers retired. More than three? I think four.

Well, more than three. I don't know if you count, I mean, do you count executives? Cause Phil Jackson and Jerry Krause are like, ring of honor or whatever they call it there. Oh, they probably rescinded Krause though. They boo him now in that arena. I've gone back 20 years and I haven't found a single MVP awards voting

that has been made public that has 20 names on it. One of the weird things. The most I found is 17. Times change, back in the 60s and 70s they released everything. Yeah. You know, back then you didn't have analytics, you had points per game and that was all you needed.

Assists and rebounds, the big three. Let me let me ask you guys this question I don't know if you saw that Darius Slay gave his list of elite quarterbacks and it's what you would presume It would be it's burrow mahomes. It's Lamar and it's Josh Allen. That's his top tier. No, Gino, huh odd Well, no Jalen hurts was the part that's odd because it's his teammate and the Super Bowl MVP and the part of that that was surprising is usually they just lie in that spot.

What are you laughing about, Billy? No Gino Smith? Oh, he's right, yeah, Gino. Yeah, that's true, it is, it is. No Gino Smith. I cannot believe how much we've debated Gino Smith so far. 10 versus 12, it's crazy. I mean, it's, we're parsing here.

This is March. Let me just say, I don't think I'm disrespecting Geno Smith nearly as much as you're overestimating. That's why this is an annoying conversation, because neither of you are doing that. We're just kind of living in the middle, like, Geno Smith, huh? But this is my-

We're doing like 10 to 14 here. No, but this is my larger point. The larger point is is both of those teams end up being nowhere franchises because they can only get the 10th best quarterback and that ends up making you nine and eight or eight and nine every single season and so Pete Carroll just wants the stability of give me the guy that I know so that I could get my feet settled here and I don't have to do Minshew for a season when we all know what that is and it ain't Geno Smith. Minshew, like what Greg is describing Geno Smith as is what Minshew actually is. I believe he's being unfair to Geno Smith because Minshew has

gotten enough opportunities to beat Geno Smith and hasn't been it in any of the offenses that he's been in. But you saying jenna smith is basically a five hundred quarterback who's not gonna win a playoff game i said what i have the top nine quarterback no what i'm saying is it's impossible to do the evaluations and disentangle everybody from everyone else and it becomes very hard to make accurate assessments on what someone is when he's got a bad offensive line, he's got good wide receivers, and he's in a lot of trouble,

and he's unlucky when it comes to turnovers, at least last year, then it becomes very hard to make an accurate assessment on what that is, and it becomes very hard to change anybody's mind on what they already thought that was. So I brought attention to the ongoing Geno Smith debate, so you guys would take inventory of the situation

and maybe share some regret. Instead, you took that as an opportunity to quadruple down on your very passionate, conviction-filled Geno Smith takes. Might ban his name for the rest of the show if we keep doing this. Okay, well, you guys don't wanna talk quarterbacks all of a sudden?

I love talking quarterbacks, but this is like a song move for Raiders. We understand why they did it, we understand why the Seahawks did it. I'll upgrade the position for the Raiders. I think even Greg would agree with that. We have three more mentions of his name on this show allowed. I mean, it's a good move by all teams involved, right?

The Seahawks didn't want to pay him $40 million a year. The Raiders needed a quarterback. OK, he's better than Aiden O'Connell and Gardner Minshew. All right, I'll give you that. He's not even the best Gino of all time. Who's the best Gino? Gino Vannelli, let alone top 10 quarterback Gino Fuente is the worst you guys do understand that basically what you're

doing is that 20 teams in that sport aren't worth ever talking about that's what you're doing that there are 20 teams that you guys just don't want to talk about and that's fine I was good with this conversation the first time we did it yes I think we all were. I'm in on it. I like going through. I like stats. I like digging through these pro bowl years

at Gino Smith and say, man, more people should have paid attention to that. That's one. Yeah, but there you go. I'm good with it. I would say that one of the items from the football weekend that I found most interesting in negotiations is that Miles Garrett didn't make the mess

that I was hoping that he would make because I found curious the sequence of events that happened here where Miles Garrett requests a trade. This is a new thing now. D.K. Metcalf requests a trade. Trey Hendrickson has requested a trade. All over the league in football. There are players suddenly requesting trades because they realize that the money is drying up or going to some of their teammates. But the sequence on Myles Garrett was he requests a trade and then the reporting is that

Cleveland's owner, Jimmy Haslam, refuses to meet with Garrett. And I read that I'm like that seems really unwise also feels really interesting to have an owner lording over the proceedings in a way where he just refuses a meeting with his star player who is unhappy and then the next thing you know Miles Garrett sides for more than Max Crosby more than any player in the league who's not a quarterback and if I were Miles Garrett I would have wanted my money elsewhere. I don't trust that organization with the next three years of my career. I'm going to waste the next three years of my career breaking my body just for money and I'm going to spend all three years losing.

If I were Miles Garrett, I would have tested my talent against the system and made whatever mess i needed to make and taking the fines of whatever mess i would have made and in my next signing because my talent is so large i would have got my money back you have jimmy butler did it i would have not jimmy butler did but jimmy butler did for football when there's the common understanding of from everyone watching yeah they betrayed that guy everyone watching that says yeah they did the seanun Watson there and he's got no help. Miles Garrett cannot succeed under those circumstances. Yeah, but they just gave him $123.5 million guaranteed,

$40 million a year, and he's someone that has an injury history. So like the idea of, you know what, I'm just gonna sit out and not play and then I'll get it next time around isn't actually an option for Miles Garrett when he has all that money guaranteed that he may not get next year if he gets injured. Miles Garrett did make it as messy as possible. I mean, you could say like, I guess he could

have been more of a baby about it, but he came out with his trade request. He actually got the fans behind his trade request and he did the media circuit all throughout Radio Row and the Super Bowl about his trade request. What happened was it's an already impossible contract to move even with his superlative production. They probably gave him here the options. They never deviated from the fact that they never wanted to trade him and they decided to make the problem go away by giving it the biggest contract ever for someone that's not a quarterback, and Miles Garrett, I know you'd like to do some role play here, saw the situation, laid out the entire lay of the land,

knew that he was in the weird position of being a franchise player in the prime of his career, and yet the fans still understood his trade request, and he still decided to stay. You say he made it as messy as he could have, no he didn't. The way that he made it as messy as he could have. No he didn't. The way that he makes it messiest is by actually wanting to leave and leaving for no amount

of money. But he did it. He wanted money. He caved. So like if you're Miles Garrett, what you would have done is you would have signed the contract because that's what Miles Garrett did end up doing, which is he signed, okay, give me the big money bomb, I'll take that, that's fine enough.

Everybody understands where he was coming from. It wasn't easy to move. It wasn't fair value for them to move him. Not many teams could even take the backloaded contract. So ultimately, it was posturing. Miles Garrett, yeah, he was calling into question something that everybody agreed with. Someone saying that, who has played those years for that franchise, everybody understands

that they've botched his career and that they're not doing enough winning. But that's a move in a negotiation. And Miles Garrett got what he wanted. Exactly. If you're Miles Garrett, you posture. You say, I want to trade. I'm Mr. Competitive. I want to play for a contender what you really want is the contract

Yeah, and then the agent says okay. He's not happy you want him happy. This is the number well you guys But you guys misunderstand me what I was hoping for is for a football player to be able to Actually exert the power because he meant it because it wasn't about money because there was I want a football player To have so much value that they do not care where they get the money, and therefore, exert their power against the system. But you want a football player that doesn't care about money, and that's not what this incident was.

What am I missing? Like, he used all the power, and he got the greatest deal ever. What is not, like... Which part are you not understanding on what it is that I'm saying? You want him to just go to another team that doesn't have the cap room? I am wanting him to say,

no amount of money keeps me in Cleveland, get me out of here. I wanna see how that looks in football when you actually have the talent to execute it. Okay, I think we've seen it before, Le'Veon Bell before, and it didn't really work out for him. We've seen it,

that's not what Miles Garrett's motivations were. If you wanna craft a scenario. I do want to craft that scenario in football. We're playing make believe. Yes we are, thank you guys, yes we are playing make believe with Miles Garrett who isn't Le'Veon Bell, Miles Garrett represents a value in the NFL that not a lot of people have, and he wasn't going

to risk injury by not playing. The mess I wanted him to make is to test all of the conservative powers in football that make it so that the system can land on the player. Which part of this are you guys not understanding about what I wanted here? I want to name him like Joey football player because it's just not a real thing like he used all the leverage at his disposal and he won. He used all the leverage if all the leverage was only used to get money. If it was to get money and a better situation that doesn't ruin his career, he could have

kept using that leverage. If he were a different guy and he actually valued winning over money, then yeah. But he's not. He gets to be more popular than ever in Cleveland right now because he's the guy who heroically resigned with the Lowly Browns rather than go somewhere else he gets all the money he ever imagined having and maybe he loves living in Cleveland maybe he doesn't know three years under 20 million dollars I'd love living in Cleveland for that I'm not crazy about how everyone just took that as fact.

He likes Cleveland. He's a part of the community and he very- Most people would live in Cleveland for $40 million, whether or not they liked it. Okay, that's a factor, whether or not he likes where he's living. I don't care if you make fun of it or not. And I don't know whether he loves living in Cleveland,

but if he does, that's another reason- I do know he doesn't love living in Cleveland. I do know that. Is this Joey football player again? He's happy there because he's rich, but if he had his choice, he'd be like, he's not like, oh, this is where I'd be. Even after retirement, I'm staying.

You guys have no way of knowing that. Where do you think he lives in the off season? You think he stays there in retirement? He might, I don't know. I think you'll have a home there. I think you'll have a home there. That doesn't mean he doesn't like playing there now. Right. He could like it there. We're just making fun of Cleveland the place. Guys, I don't know. I think you'll have a home there. I think you'll have a home there. That doesn't mean he doesn't like playing there now. Right.

He could like it there. We're just making fun of Cleveland the place. Guys, I would- And, I mean, Cleveland the organization. And the- This is so dystopian. This is one of the good stories. Yeah.

It's a good story. A guy that is earned for that franchise, the biggest contract they can hand out in the history of sports to a non-quarterback, and he earned it. Everyone's happy. I agree. They get to keep their legend. He decided, you know what, I know I said a lot of hurtful things, but I got this contract and we're here, Cleveland. You're gonna still see my smiling face. And we know we have all sorts of uncertainty around the quarterback position,

but you're gonna see my smiling face over there potentially throwing helmets at other people's heads. He also didn't say all that many hurtful things. Like you guys are saying Radio Row, like here's a news flash. Everyone was told they couldn't ask him about the trade requests at Radio Row. Only one person was allowed to. It was Mina and he said nothing. So like he said the day before he went to Radio Row,

I wanna be traded and everyone that had it booked was like, you can't ask him about that. And it's like, okay, so what do we ask him about? And that's exactly how that went. Well, he said that the team, he wanted to play for a team that could maybe win something at some point in his career. Yeah, that's what you say when you wanna leverage

to get more money. Yeah, but I could see people being hurt by that, but to throw Dan a bone here, like I, as a sports fan who's not really, I don't really have a dog in this fight, like yeah, I wanna see the best players play for the best teams. And it is a bummer that one of the best players in the league's gonna be on this Cleveland Browns team that is in cap hell for the next how many

years because they made the worst deal in NFL history to sign Deshaun Watson. But the only way he could have played for one of the best teams was by making substantially less than what he's going to make. So why would he want to go and play for one of the best teams so you guys can feel good in exchange for $20 million a year? It's not just so that we can feel good, but one of the things that I'm objecting to here is I don't want an all-time talent winning four games a year and ruining the end of his career because they've got no chance.

I'd like my all-time talents to play in relevant football games. And's and and you're right that's he doesn't have to do that for me But I want Joey football X to be a hypothetical player one of them to pick Yeah, you know what? I would like to be relevant and play as an all-time Great on a team that actually makes the playoffs has a chance as opposed to this one But I think the point is that like he, he got the money that he wanted. So we can't put other desires into his heart that he may not have. Like it seems like this was a happy ending, I guess.

And it's all going to get fixed when they draft cam hoard. Howdy folks. It's Mike Ryan. I talk to you about Miller time all the time, but we're in the winter time right now and one of my favorite pastimes is to crack open a Miller Lite and enjoy myself some Miller time during the wintertime because when there's a brisk chill in the air it just makes everything right. My friends and I who live down here in South Florida can actually sit outside because it's not super muggy. We can thoroughly enjoy our Miller time together. And for you

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