The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - The Big Suey: Nick Wright's Anti-Wemby Campaign (feat. Nick Wright)

Episode Date: March 25, 2026

"I missed your fat face." You'll be hard-pressed to find someone in sports media who is more anti-Wemby than Nick Wright. Now, everyone loves him, so that's not a very high bar to clear, but still. Plus, is Paul George using his mental health as a crutch in a way that diminishes what mental health care truly is? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Big Suey, presented by Draft Kings. Why are you listening to this show? The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan Levitard podcast. I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize for that. In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging. I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys? I've done it.

And now, here's the marching man to nowhere, fat face, and the habitual liar. This episode of the Dan Levitart show is presented by Draft Kings. Draft Kings, the crown is yours. Greg Cody, Al Pacino was in The Godfather. Yeah, good movie. All right. That concludes Greg on movies. Nick Wright is with us now.

He and his show have been nominated for a sports Emmy for Daily Sports Studio Show, Sports Center, NBA Today. This is some good company. NFL Live, Mina, his nemesis, Pat McAfee show. Pablo Jeremy has been nominated for three Emmys. You're always talking about your three Emmys. It'd be exciting. If he wins all three, he can tie me.

Pablo is nominated for three of these. I believe this is the first time we've seen Nick since he won you guys a bunch of money. So should you guys be thanking him? Yeah. A little weird, huh? I mean, well, it's a little odd, isn't it? I was on, I was coming on every other week. and then the moment the wire transfer goes through,

all of a sudden, you know, you don't need me anymore. I don't know. It felt a little, I don't know. Did you get proper thanks from the group? I saw some videos being made where cash was being thrown up in the air, and I assume that that got to you, but I also assume that we can screw that up and possibly not show you any gratitude at all

because our video team sometimes, you know, leaves a lot of money on the floor. You know, Dan, I'm going to be totally honest. I'm going to, I think the shit, shipping container, whatever they did or didn't do is going to remain between us. I thought maybe, you know, you would invite me back on the show and the, you know, moments after. I know the next day I was going to come on, but I was hammered. Okay, Nick. Well, but you're, this is an important detail. We talked about that, but I needed a few hours to, you know, to gather myself. It's been weeks, but it's fine. It doesn't matter. Everyone won. I started a little rivalry.

the poker world that I didn't mean to, that started on your show because the guy got really mad that I elude, you know, that I implied he might not be all the way above board, and then he and I got an argument in the game. Then I won 137 grand, and then everybody got paid. It was all good for everyone. Let's Talk Hoops. Good to see you guys. I missed your fat face. Wemby. How do you feel about Wembe? If he wins the championship this year, he's going to hog many of them, I would assume. Well, listen, if he wins the championship this year, that is a conversation to be had. I find the Wimby discourse already a little unique in that the press conference he did yesterday or day before yesterday where he's like

here's my three-point plan as to why I'm the league MVP is the type of thing that while I think you Dan historically would like from your athletes most in the media hate stuff like that. He was asked. He was asked to give his three points. Like, it's not like he went up there and volunteered it. He was asked. Well, he, hold on.

He volunteered, I believe I'm the MVP. Then he was asked what the three, you know, what his three reasons were. And I just don't typically a 22 year old who's never won anything explaining to everyone how he's the best player and not why his. team is the best, but why he is the best. And typically, the media scolds that. Not with this guy who since he came into the league has been telling us about how the spurs play basketball the right way, about he just, there are a lot of characteristics of Wimby's overwhelming arrogance that I tend to like in athletes, you tend to like in athletes, most of the media tends to

scolding athletes and with the 22 year old French kid everybody applauds it and and now we're also to the place already where in defense of a guy who while undoubtedly being one of the five best players in the league and undoubtedly being a legitimate MVP candidate and undoubtedly being the clear cut best defensive player in the league because his offensive numbers are so pedestrian, we are now to the place of creating phrases and stats I've never heard of. I learned, I've watched basketball my whole life. For the first time in my life yesterday, I learned about roll gravity. I'm like, oh,

roll gravity. So that's why Wimby's 24 points, three assists, you know, equal Lucas 34 points and 10 assists, or Joker's 30 points in 13. or Shea's 32 points in eight assists. It's the roll gravity and how he's carrying this scrappy group of upstart spurs that starts three McDonald's All-American top five picks. That's it. That's what it is. It just feels like we are a little ahead of ourselves.

It feels like something else too, Mike. It does it. It feels like he's doing it. He's doing it. He's doing it. He's doing it. He's doing it. He's doing it.

He's doing it. And you are so smart about picking your guy. LeBron, Patrick Mahomes. I caution you, aren't you a little worried? This guy's got all the traits to be unstoppable. It's like the easiest thing in the world to say, hey, Wimby's going to be good. Right now, what you're doing?

It's dangerous, pal. So I'm not soft launching anything. And I, what I am, he's obviously great. He's obviously at one point going to be the best player in the league. I don't think we are there yet. And I also, you know, ultimately, if anyone knows anything about me, what I strive for in the media landscape is fairness. And I just am not that familiar with many guys who before they play in a single playoff game, before they win a single award of substance, can take to the podium and be like, hey, I should win the MVP because,

I dominated the defending champ and defending league MVP. I think that, let's just do a thought exercise, okay? Let's say at week 12 next season, Caleb Williams is in the MVP race, but Matt Stafford, no, the Stafford won MVP, they didn't win the title, so it doesn't work exactly, but Stafford's way ahead. And Caleb Williams takes to the podium and says, hey, here's why I'm the MVP and then goes right at Stafford's throat as a champion as the defending league MVP. You think folks will be, and by the way, Caleb's won a playoff game.

Caleb's done, Caleb has up to this point in his career, has more peltz on the wall than Wimby. You think people will be like, love it. I the, wow, the confidence. Everybody look out. League's about to be his, or would it be some scolding? I think it'd be some scolding. I, the Braun, 18 years in, said, yeah, I think I'm the greatest player ever. And people are like, you can't say that about yourself. Wimby, 25 games in was like, I'm going to dominate the league and I believe that I'm unstoppable. And everyone's like, wow, did you know he plays chess? I just find it interesting.

That's all. In a second, we're going to play this sound. But just so that, you know, Tim Reynolds asked him if he had thought about MVP. and then there was a question about title chances, and then the reporters brought it back to MVP, and here's what it is, he said. I think right now it is still reasonable that there is a debate. But as I said, I want to make sure,

my goal is to make sure that there's no debate anymore at the end of the season. Three arguments. My first one would be that defense is 50% of the game, and that it is undervalued. far in the MVP race because I believe I'm the most impactful player defensively in the league. The second argument would be that we almost swept OKC in the season and we dominated them three times with their real team and four times with more rotation players. And my third argument would be that I'll

offense, impact is not just worse. It's a French guy in debate club. It doesn't feel like arrogance to me the way it's being delivered. Okay, yeah, of course, it doesn't feel like it because we kind of pick and choose that. But let me, if we're going to do debate club, I will, you know, this is ground that I can, you know, maybe fair fight with Wimby on. when he's he is right in that defense is 50% of the game when it comes to team success. It has never been 50% of the game when it comes to awards, which is why we have the all NBA team, the 15 best players, and the all defense team.

You know what we don't have Dan? Hey, first team all offense. You know why? Because we were like, well, that's the all NBA team. We have the MVP, the best player and the defensive player of the year. We don't have offensive player of the year because that's almost always the MVP. Now, Wimby can say we need to redo this. This is not how it should be done, but throughout the entirety of NBA history,

we have more than a dozen MVP seasons that nobody took issue with from objectively bad defenders. You know, we don't have one of an MVP season from an objectively bad offensive player because on an individual player level, offense does matter more. Now, maybe Wimby will change that math. That's the first point. The second point is, and this is where I take a little bit of issue with him using their success against OKC as a reason he should be MVP, those first three wins against OKC, Wimby was fine. He was 24 minutes a night.

He was obviously dominant defensively. He was coming back from the injury But that was to me a testament to how deep their team is and then when he says offensive impact is more than points Yes, it is also points created for teammates which two of the other three MVP candidates are the best in the league at in Luke and Joker Wimby is three assists a game but now I'm being now I am being told evidently that the corner threes, the spurs are generating, are because Wimby has a gravitational pull like Steph Curry from 35 feet out. And I just, again, whenever there is all of a sudden

a groundbreaking stat that really supports one agenda and it's a stat no one has ever mentioned in the history of stats before, I look at it with a somewhat quizzical eye. That's all. Again, I would have him third on my MVP ballot. I think it would be Shea, Luca, Wembe. But I think we do a thing where Luca, who is...

No Yokic. No Yokic. I would have Joker 4. I would have Joker 4. He had 17 rebound, 17 assists last night. Zach Lowe goes SGA, Wembe, Yokic. No Yokic is like when people got bored and made Carl Malone the MVP because they didn't want Michael to win anymore. You can't knock.

You can't knock out, Yolkits. You can't. Hold on. Well, I have him fourth. So you're just fine with, again, the people have gotten bored with Luca before he's won an MVP. All Luca's done since he's walked into the league is average 30 a night, carry teams deeper in the playoffs than their seed, create more open shots for anyone via actual drawing double teams and actual passes. and people are like he yells at the refs too much. All Luke has done is upset a juggernaut one seed Phoenix

and make Devin Booker cry in route to a conference finals at 22, and then upset OKC and the Thunder, and then Aunt Edwards and the Timberwolves in route to an NBA finals at 24. In a season, he averaged 33.9 points per game. He is once again having a historically great offensive. season and people are like, yeah, but he doesn't fight through picks too often. Meanwhile, Steve Nash, how's those MVP's look?

Steph Curry, how's your MVP's look? Dirk Novitsky, what about yours? James Harden, you still got the trophy? Luca can't win it because he's bad. I got your buddy. Wilbonne yesterday was like, don't even tell me, don't even bring up Luca. Don't even bring up a guy who's 33, 9, and 9 on the three seed? I don't know.

And as far as Joker, maybe you'll disagree with this. I do think historically this is accurate and it's fair that each MVP is harder than the last. That the reason Jordan didn't win seven and LeBron didn't win eight was because it keeps getting tougher. And so yeah, I think Joker, the fact that, and God knows, we're not, the only MVP candidate we can talk about defensively is Luca. Meanwhile, Shea, while a good defender is the worst defender in their starting lineup. And Joker has regressed this year defensively, but God forbid, you bring that up with anyone but Luca. I think Joker, when they're right, you know, at last check, I think they're the five seed. I think that that is a fair reason to put Wimby and Luca ahead.

Five seed because he hurt his knee. The four seed because he hurt his knee. Folks, listen up, quick break in the action. Are you counting down the days until, payday. Instacash from MoneyLine can help you access up to $500 of your hard-earned pay early. There's no interest, no credit check, and no monthly fees. So you can manage those in-between expenses with less stress. Download the MoneyLion app and link your qualifying bank account to see what you qualify for. MoneyLion. Make money easy. Instacast is subject to terms and eligibility

requirements. Expedited delivery requires a turbo fee. See MoneyLion.com. 10-day Tony. What's up, Mike? It's NBA playoff time. Finally. Yeah, yeah. The NBA playoff. playoffs are here. Every possession feels like someone's season is on the line. Because it is. It's all about drama. And now, there's baseball on every night. We're back into baseball. We are? Every random Tuesday feels like October when you're into the sport as much as we are. Which is why I texted you the other night, 10 day, Tony. Hey, I got a couple of Miller lights. I got all the games on. Why don't you come over, pal? Guess what I did. You came over? I hauled over there.

You hold over there, but not before you stop by a convenient place to pick up some Miller Life. They sell it pretty much anywhere. They have beer. You had the white cans. I brought over the brown bottles. Oh, two-for-one there. We had ourselves a time. How many times did we jump up off the couch and cheers?

Every time. We looked at each other, took a sip, said, yeah, bud, this is exactly where we need to be. We made the right call. That's why we reach for Miller Light every time. Cheers, the legendary moments with Miller Light. Great taste, 96 calories. Go to Millerlight.com slash Dan to find delivery options near you, or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer.

It's Miller Time. Celebrate responsibly, Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 96 galleries, and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. Hey, Roy, buddy. You know that energy shift when the game gets good, and everybody altogether, in unison, knows to stand up on their feet? Oh, absolutely, Mike. Yeah, you've been at many big-time sporting events.

You know that moment quite well. That's what it's like when you take your first sip of Cuervo. Oh, delicious. It's the signal that says, we're not checking the time anymore, pal. It's when small talk turns into stories. Quervo, man, it's at high five, a random stranger effect. That's right. The game is popping.

You're hugging people you never met before. That's the kind of energy that Cuervo brings. It's so smooth, so delicious. That's the Cuervo effect. Keep it, Cuervo. Don LeBatar. This is the quickest it goes. Hey, this is the quickest it goes.

Stugats. Everybody, this is the quickest it goes. Yeah. This is the Dan Lebatar show with the Stugats. Tony, you wanted to get in here? No, I just think that he's having the best season that he's ever had. He's already won three MVP. He leads the leagues in rebound and assists.

And it's like, you made the case, Nick. It's not a 50-50 award of all right. What are you doing for me in a defensive end? Like, you talk about roll gravity. That's where Yokic brings every single. night. So let's I think joke so hold on. So then didn't people tell me is the argument here that Lucas shouldn't be in the top three? Is that the argument? Because I know what this group thinks of LeBron as a player right now. I know we don't we're not going to say DeAndre Aiton

is the defining person. Mark is smart is Mike Ryan's age. Like what what is the, um, well I didn't want to say my age because you're younger than me, Mike. think he's the late 30s. I was trying to be nice. I mean, you're a grandpa. I mean, you're a grandpa. You can't be coming after. I know, which is why Mark is smart. LeBron is my age. Mark is smart as Mike Ryan's age. I was trying to be accurate. I think Mike's younger than me. It's not the point. It wasn't a shot, Mike. I apologize. Um, like, you guys are arguing that the guy who's going to win the scoring title on great efficiency, carrying a team that nobody thought was going to be the three seed to the three seed should just be an also ran in the MVP discussion. That's the argument because

it seems like you guys want Yokic to get more credit. Your guy's show is one of the chorus of shows that every day praise at the altar of Wimby. That's fine. Nobody obviously is going to knock Shea. They're the one seed. He hasn't had his second best player for more than half the year. these 32 points a game. He just broke a Wilk Chamberlain record. So your guy's beef is that Luca, where Luca is? Stan Van Gundy says Luca is the best offensive player there's ever been, and I've been soft launching for about two years now

that I believe Yokic is a better offensive player than Michael Jordan, but I haven't been able to, it won't get any traction. I would consider hard launching it, Dan. If you've been soft launching it for two years, It may be, maybe you need to put a little more half behind it. No, you knew immediately when you soft-launched, I'm going to make the controversial argument that LeBron is better than Michael Jordan.

You knew immediately that you had gold. I keep getting out there with Yokic is better offensively than Michael Jordan. And because he's a loaf of bread, I can't get that kite off the ground. No, here's the problem. The reason I had gold was because what I had on my side was logic, truth, and history. The reason you don't is because people are like, no, he's not.

That's it. You know what I mean? It's a little bit of a blink test thing. People are like, yeah, no, he's not. We're running out of time here. Hold on a second. Give me a second. Did you have something else?

Did you want something to get to something else? Because I saw Tony and Mike were looking something up back there and laughing. And I'd like to know what it is you were looking up and laughing, Tony. No, I just, you know, Nick would appreciate this. I'm a guy that kind of knows style and understands certain things. and I told Mike A, that's a Gucci cardigan. And then we looked it up and we saw how much it was. Yes.

We just, you know. Well, the conversation started. I was like, why does Nick have a bunch of 609s on his sweater? But then it's like, oh, it's Gucci. It's Gucci. Then we looked at the price. My iPhone's a vintage clothing store. This was purchased at a vintage shop somewhere.

You know, I probably for, you know, it is Gucci. It's got the two Gs because it's got the price tag on the sweater all over the black. I mean, listen, guys, this is the second time. Careful now because this is the second time I've worn a cardigan on this show and it's become a subject of somewhat scorn In my you know I guess momentarily famous Tetotette with now three-time Emmy nominated Pablo Tori if not more The first thing he said was you wore a cardigan into my studio and while I focused on the 15 minutes that followed My wife who dresses me picks out all my clothes and is I think a fashion icon in my mind is still angry about that.

She's like, I can't believe him. That cardigan was gorgeous. Now I'm wearing a cardigan again. Mike Ryan thinks I'm making some sophomore sexual jokes. And Tony, once again, even though he is my guy, it feels like the second instance of Tony kind of pocket watching me. I'm telling people that don't know there's. You're Googling prices of what I'm wearing. I wanted to make sure that it was Gucci.

I'm not saying it's a bad sweater. And I know it's a court again. How much should it cost? I made the joke. The two genes. Keep up, Dad. Jeremy, before I get to the last point here with Nick Wright, what do you have for Nick Wright? In terms of Wembe, Nick, on-off differential, right?

The guys who, when they're on the floor, their team is better. When they're off the floor, their team is worse. Amongst guys that have played 1, Yokic is number 1, Yokic is number 2. Donchich is all the way down at like 40th. in the league. Now, your arguments of that might be they can have LeBron James on the floor. But the Spurs are supposed to be a great team even when Wembe is not there. Does that impact when he's on the floor versus when he's not stack up for you in terms of the MVP? He is, it does. I think being third in the MVP race is pretty good. That season to, like

this is, though. First off, I wasn't talking watching. I'm explaining to guys that don't have style, what style looks like I'm giving you a prize. I really like that card again. To our guests who also gave us money. Thank you very much. Listen, I think being third in the MVP race is pretty great. I just also think that we are pressing fast forward and we are overlooking some historically great offensive seasons. Most notably, I think by Luca, but that's fine.

Lucas, I've always been partial to Luca. I also have this question. Like, so for the folks that have been banging the drum, Wimby is the best player in the league. Not that he will be. He's the best player in the league. He thinks he's the league MVP. What are the fair expectations for the Spurs come this postseason?

And what, like, that's because I think, because again, I am a bastion of fairness and equality, I think that if the spurs were to get clipped in round two by the veteran Laker team, there's no shame in that whatsoever. That is the path teams almost always take. You guys are setting it up to where certainly they have to beat the Lakers, and Wimby just explained to us how they dominate OKC, how he's the best player in that series. So that'd be damn near a gag job if they lose OKC. So I guess it's finals or bust.

Burrs won the title, it would be unprecedented for a team that hasn't had any playoff suffering. Like they would be unprecedented if they won the title this year. He's the host of FS1's First Things First and What's Right with Nick Wright, the podcast. We've got to get him out of here. But before you go, you said you're interested in fairness along the media landscape. What is your issue with Ian Rappaport? And do you have do you have any thoughts on Dan Arlofsky being the only guy out there saying that Ty Simpson is the number one quarterback while also being repped by the same

agency as I'll answer both of those in reverse order I think the agent stuff is so wildly unfair and ridiculous and what Dan said yesterday is correct the idea that we work for agents it's the opposite of that the agents

get a cut of our money agents work for us so I used to catch this stuff about clutch and rich and because my agent is partners with Rich, like the, they work for us. So I think the idea that Dan is catering as takes to CAA clients, CAA's got a million clients, broadcast and sports.

So I think that's unfair. I have not, I am not a college football film expert, but I do respect that I think Orlovsky has an opinion that he knows will be controversial, and he's not couching it. Like he believes in something he's arguing for it. And so I respect that. As far as Rappaport, and this is going to make my life awkward, but again, Bastion of fairness, I have no problem whatsoever with Ian personally, none.

I've had dinner with him a couple times in group settings. He's a nice guy. We have mutual friends. And I think in general, he's good at his job. But I think we have crossed the Rubicon from reporting the friendliest possible contract details because it makes the agents look good to outright misleading the public. When you report that Travis Kelsey signs a three-year $55 million deal that could be worth up to $58 million,

and that then is on the bottom line of shows, fans that are not dialed into SpotRack, like, wow, three years, 55 million. The Swifties are excited about it. when everyone knows and knew two weeks ago that it is a one-year 12 million dollar deal with three million dollars of incentives that in year two and year three pays him the league minimum and five days into year two if he's on the roster he gets a check for 40 million dollars which was put in as a dummy year so they can spread out the cap hit you've now misled the audience Travis Kelsey does not have a three or 55 million dollar deal

He has a one year $12 million deal. If he does not retire, he will either be cut or that will be reworked prior to the fifth day of next league year because they're not going to give him a $40 million check. Travis doesn't expect it. The chiefs don't expect it. His agents don't expect it. So to then report that he has something because it's technically true when it's wildly inaccurate because milk honey sports now owes you.

you a favor is, I think, ridiculous. He's got to go. He's the best doing this right now. I always thought it was Spotrack, by the way. I thought it was Spotrack. You know what, it might be. I might have gotten that, you know what? Bad job by me.

That would probably cost me the Emmy. On an island's on your own now, Greg. See you later. The NBA playoffser here in Draft King's Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA is boosting every game day all postseason long. And when the lights get brighter, the best players in the world show you exactly who they are.

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Don Libetard. A woman who was out swimming with her friends is believed to have been swallowed whole by a 13-foot shark without any of her friends noticing. That's the weirdest part about that story. You're swimming with friends, you're having a good time, and then all of a sudden people are looking around and go, where's Shelley? Like, nobody screamed? Every friend group has a Shelley, though, that if they go missing because a shark ate them hole,

you wouldn't notice. Classic Shelley. Exactly right. Stugats. She went quietly, apparently. If I'm swallowed hole by a shark, you're going to know it. This is the Dan Lebatar show with the Stugats. Let's find out what the truth of that is in a moment.

We're going to update our tournament in a moment. And we ran out of time, or I would have just told him how some of his teams have been knocked out of our looks-like tournament. But let's do that now. North Dakota State was represented by the Nick Wright Conference. That means this is gone. Nick Wright looks like a Geico Caveman. And number 15 queens also out of the tournament. That means this is a...

of the tournament. Nick Wright looks like Adam Driver if he wore his Kylo Ren helmet for a month straight. We will update the rest of our tournament and tell you about the matchups that are coming up this week. But I wanted to get to this Paul George story as he returns. The 76ers would be and will be formidable if Paul George and Joel Embed can play in a seven-game series. When those guys are out on the court together, that is a team that could beat anybody in the east. They're just rarely out on the court together. Maxi, Edgecom, Paul George, at some level or capacity that is efficient and Joelle Embed could

challenge everybody. But Paul George has said, and I want to walk carefully here because I don't want to disrespect anyone's mental health, but I think he's hiding behind it here in a way that seems fraudy. And I'll explain it to you when you read some of these quotes. look up the quotes for me here so that we can read some of the quotes because it sounds like Paul George is saying, I was playing poorly, my body hurt, I got sad, it affected my mental health, therefore I used PEDs. And that's not how mental health works. Like, you got sad because you were playing poorly isn't something that you file under the umbrella of mental health to try and get away with your cheating because you know people will be careful about attacking something

that they need to be careful about, but the way that he's presenting this shows a basic misunderstanding of mental health, and the way he's communicating it makes me feel like he either doesn't know what mental health issues are or is articulating them poorly. But just because you're playing poorly, you can't just say mental health, mental health, you're sad because you're playing poorly. Like, this is how aging works. The body starts to betray you. You can't just file it under, hey, my brain chemistry has something wrong with it because

you're sad because you're playing poorly. Here's the exact quote from PG. The most difficult thing is when your body isn't where you know it needs to be or where it once was, this leads and bleeds to the mental side of things, knowing that you're limited. But for me, I feel good. My body's feeling great. Mentally, I know I'm capable of doing what I need to do.

And I've been able on the court for years now. So this part is difficult because I don't know the depths of his mental health issues. But if you're going to get suspended for 25 games and then you're, use it as the armor against our questions, you need to explain it better. Like, if you're going to volunteer that that's the reason we shouldn't go after you for cheating, you need to do a better job of explaining to us what the issues are with the darkness and the brain chemistry that would make it slightly more believable that you're not just sad because you're not the player you used to be.

Another quote reads, being a pro athlete takes a toll on you. My body wasn't where I wanted it to be the expectations to perform because of my body, not being where it needed to be. Obviously, I'm going to have expectations for myself, and that's what led to a poor decision at the time. I will say, as I've said before... That's ownership at the end, Dan. I will say, as I've said before,

professional sport is a mental health obstacle course. You're getting to work every day and competing with others who want to take your job and your money. You're competing against the desperate world, war-torn countries, the inner cities, over money. You're at the top 1% of the top 1% and every day you come into work,

they're trying to figure out a way to get someone younger and cheaper to take your dollars. The whole thing is a difficult mental health challenge for every single person who has to work in that environment. I cannot tell you the number of athletes who have articulated to me

no joy in the doing of their work except when those three hours of play are taking place. No joy anywhere else around it. Not before, not in the travel, not like the lifestyle, sure. I'm going to say parts of the lifestyle. People don't understand the lifestyle. Getting to every city at 5 a.m. And having a walk around in a hotel ballroom doesn't feel like whatever you imagine is the height of athletic fame and glory.

Many, many athletes, all they like about sports is the three hours of performance. But most of life is not that three hours of a performance. most of life is a mental health challenge. I believe Paul George when he says there's a link between his mental health issues and his using PEDs. I don't have any reason not to believe him. The question is that a legitimate excuse? And I don't think it would be seen as one. It is a legitimate excuse if mental health issues are real and you're taking some sort of medication that helps you with your real mental health issues. But again, the way he's articulating this to me, you're shaking your head at me, Mike,

but the way that he's articulating this to us in the quotes is saying, I'm sad because my body wasn't where it was. And yeah, that's why a lot of guys use PEDs. All right. So there's a lot to chew on here. And I don't know if he's self-diagnosed. I don't listen to his pod, so I don't know if he's consulted people on this. Here's what I do know.

He broke the rule. And it's a very clear rule. And he could be taking stuff that is in line with rules, there is no confusion to these NBA players as to what's allowed for them to put in their bodies and what's not. It's so easy to find out too. And he broke the rule. Now, he may be offering up an explanation. It could also be looked into as an excuse and it could play into what you're saying, which is, you know, holding that up as a shield as he knowingly breaks the rule. I think that there are two things at play here. And I think he can have his struggles. And I think he can be

honest about him and he can even tout advocacy. But he broke the rule. And there's no real explanation for that as meekly as he tries to offer one. Is it possible that he doesn't even like, like is he lying? Is it possible that he's lying and he's just using the mental health part because yes, it's very difficult to question someone when they say that they're having mental health issues because there are, there have to be plenty of athletes, plenty of players in the NBA who are using antidepressants to deal. Like there are, there are, there are hundreds of antidepressants out there that you're absolutely able to use prescribed by a doctor that is not going to get you pinched against the league's PED.

I think what's saying is super important. Paul George is definitely not the only person in that league struggling with mental health. He is definitely so many players using it. He is the only one, though, getting the rare 25 games suspension from a league that doesn't do a lot of that. That's right. The only one. Which is why I'm asking is he just being untruthful. Right. That's also a credit to the players that are going through this that know the rules that have what they feel is like the very same excuse and are choosing to follow the rules.

I wouldn't go as far as to slap him with the pejorative of lying. To me, this sounds like someone who's not properly informed on the spectrum of mental health issues when he articulates it in a way that says to you flatly, it's the opposite of lie. It's a little too honest. I'm sad because my body doesn't work the way it's supposed to. It's not lying. He's being too truthful about what it is he did and why he did it. And that's making me question. Not whether he's lying about mental health as an excuse, whether he understands what he's talking about.

If Paul George is someone who is predisposed to depression, he's been someone who is open about mental health throughout his career, Not necessarily, for example, articulating it as well as Kevin Love, who is one of the guys who has been outspoken about these things and has gotten into some really, like, deep, in-depth conversations about his own treatment. Paul George is not saying here, I took a performance-enhancing drug to help my body because my mental health was failing. What he's saying is my body was breaking down, which sent me into some sort of depressive state here. and so I took something that was banned. So what we don't know is was he trying to self-medicate in some sort of way with his mental health? Maybe Paul George is someone who is already taking some sort of pre-approved antidepressant that is okay within the league.

But then he decided to self-medicate and he says, I made a bad decision at the time. Look, I'll be somewhat vulnerable here. I've gone through major ups and downs with my own mental health and have gone through stages where I have self-medic. in ways that I wish I wouldn't have. And now I've gotten the proper medications diagnosed by a doctor that helped me stay stable in those things. Paul George maybe is someone that didn't consult with a doctor and should have. He violated the rules.

He was suspended. And now he's showing up vulnerably and saying, hey, I made a mistake. It's my fault. I'm owning it. I'm explaining to you why. And now, after 25 games off, my body feels like. good, I'm not going to make this mistake again. I don't think that we need to necessarily like criticize him for using mental health as a crutch as much as it's a seemingly real and

vulnerable explanation. You're saying he's explaining it and I'm saying he's not explaining it well. He got fined $12 million and had 25 games to think about what he was going to say when he got back and how he was going to say it. These people have management and all sorts of people around them to help them with the delivery of that message. The way he delivered it didn't reach me as someone who's predisposed to compassion and empathy in all of these circumstances. I'm reading this and I'm saying this is an affront to other people who are dealing with mental health issues. And it's not because of what he may or may not be suffering. It's because of how he's explaining it to me. I don't want to question what the depths of his despair are. The way he

explained it to us though is like, I wasn't playing well and so I did something I shouldn't have done. And while he may not have consulted a mental health specialist, as as has already underscored, they are being consulted as to what is legal and what is not according to the bylaws of a league. He did mental health advocacy, no favors in any of this. I agree. I agree. And his logic could be applied to anybody that has ever taken performance enhancers ever, because I'm not good enough and that is weighing on my mind.

Totally fair. Unhappiness at work, of course, is a struggle deteriorating your body when you're competing against people whose bodies are functional. functioning better. Yeah, that's a hardship, but you got to explain it better than that.