The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - The Big Suey: Polishing David's World Series Trophy (feat. Ryan Cortes)

Episode Date: February 6, 2025

We continue our quest to have more fun than everyone in New Orleans by bringing in Ryan Cortes from Japan to give us the Miami Heat fan perspective after the Jimmy Butler saga finally came to a conclusion. The rebranded Cortes tells us why he's jacked up about PJ Tucker returning to Miami and how he feels about Jimmy Butler following all of the drama that has taken place over the last couple months. Plus, Mark Williams was traded to the Los Angeles Lakers, Jimmy Butler and Bernie Lee are the masters of making a mess, and owners always think they're the coolest guy in the room. Also, David Samson tells us about walking through New York City with his World Series trophy to get it polished. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to Giraffe King's Network. of the most iconic famous places in the country. You know what helps me do that? Gold Belly! This amazing site where I order from all the time. Where you can get all these amazing foods from all across our great country. They will ship free to your door anywhere in the US of A. Gold Belly will ship you Philly Cheese Stakes from Jim's or Pat's in Philly. I'm treating my office right now to a cheese steak party from Pat's courtesy of Gold Belly. And on top of that, I threw in some original buffalo wings from Anchor Bar in Buffalo. You could get Kansas City's most legendary BBQ from Goldbelly and if the pizza near you sucks they will ship you New York style pizza from John's on Bleecker or Chicago deep

dish pizza from Lou Malnati's, I do that all the time, or even New Haven or Detroit style pizza. If you are truly gluttonous though, they will ship you Guy Fieri's famous trash can nachos, which I kid you not are the ultimate game day centerpiece. So if you're looking to host an epic Super Bowl party or any party for that matter, go to GoldBelly.com and get free shipping and 20% off your first order with promo code Dan. That's GoldBelly.com code Dan for free shipping and 20% off your first order. Dan for free shipping and 20% off your first order. you can become a better investor. It's time to get the financial future you deserve. Get yours, Questrade. Welcome to The Big Sui, presented by DraftKings. Why are you listening to this show?

The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan LeBattard podcast. I'm sorry, I'm not gonna apologize for that. In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging. I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys?

I've done it. And now, here's the marching man to nowhere, fat face, and the habitual liar. Dude. Okay. Boy, you looking good, boy. It's something I always wonder. It's like me, when I go to sleep, right when I lay down, I start thinking about the stuff

I haven't done. For the first, like, month that I was taking Adderall, fans were, like, emailing in saying, wait, what is hap- is Stu got smarter than Leventhor? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, wow. So believe it or not, guys, I have a fishing team. What? Really? I'm part owner of a fishing team.

Wow. Yeah, but I do fish, though. I mean, how about we get a rod in the water, Raheem? Let's go. Yeah, let's do it. Yeah, it's the same guy that I was supposed to be going out there golfing with me, right? One question was like, if you could change closets for the day, who would it be with?

I said, the pope. And I said, I love his look. I love to be able to anoint. The pope's look, huh? You should have dressed like the pope today. That would have been great. Oh, my god. That's what would have been better. Well, no, the pope has to be red. Oh, you're right. I forgot about that. No, my tattoo. I got to show you Pope today. That would be great. Oh my god. That's what's been better.

Well, no, the Pope has been bad. Oh, you're right. I forgot about that. No, my tattoo. I got to show you my tattoo. It's right here. Wow. So that's the 2025.

Even though the game hasn't been played yet, you have so much confidence that you. And then also, I got to read it. I'm reading between the lines here to God. Ed didn't say this. He'd never say this. But he kind of said, a little bit easy for Christian. He had all these genetics,

I mean all he had to do was fulfill his destiny. Unlike Ed. Ed had to come in here. So Larry Zonka got stuck at sea one time, like in the Bering Straits or something, they had to come and rescue him with a helicopter. He did, for real. I think Rob Vonrad was out on a boat by himself,

fell off the boat. No, the boat was drowning, he had to swim to shore. Mike Tyson scared me. Well, Mike Tyson tells you to do something, you do it. I got up. Yeah. Maybe buddy system, do something. Don't go out by yourself on the boat.

Maybe be careful when you're out fishing, because the franchise does have a history of problems on boats. Well, guess what? I know two guys that's going to join me. Wow. Yes, co-owners. Listen, I'm going to leave Levitore. You and I are going to start a show.

Yeah, no, we to leave Levitore. You and I are going to start a show. Yeah, no we aren't. Look. Yeah. The thing about lying, I do it to protect them, not me. Yeah. And sometimes I lie just because I just want to be a part of the conversation. How long you been lying?

Oh, my whole life. Yeah. I've been lying for 31 years. Guess how old I am. 31. How much longer you thinking you want to play? I mean, I got like, like, whenever these wheels fall off. Back to you guys.

This has been unbelievable. And then behind the stand, wrap it up. So that's what we gonna do. Cause we could have win all day. Listen, this is my new cohost, LeBittard, bye. Back to you, Dan. This episode of the Dan LeBittard Show with Stu Gotz is presented by DraftKings.

DraftKings, the crown is yours. Who's Ed? I don't know. He was pitching something, I bet. There was. Who's Ed? I don't know. He was pitching something, I bet. There was. At Radio Roll? I came in with the stated goal of having more fun than everybody in New Orleans.

We're a split squad this week. And I don't know if we can have more fun than Stugatz was having fake laughing. That's Sean Stilado, agent for Tommy DeVito. Oh, I thought this fake laugh was funny Marco where they're having a fake laugh off. I was like, that's amazing. That guy was Christian McCaffrey's dad for the record.

Was, that's EZ Ed McCaffrey? Ed McCaffrey. In the Big Easy. How about that? NFL Blitz legend. Was that guy, DeVito, was he wearing a championship ring? Yeah, I think he's wearing his Italian sports, Italian-American Sports Hall of Fame ring.

That is a great, you found out. You just did Pablo some justice. We interviewed him. He was wearing the same ring? No, it was like right before he was about to be enshrined in the Italian-American Sports Hall of Fame. Of course you interviewed him. Yeah, man.

This show, we did it here. I know, of course. Look, Shad, Cortez, is he here yet? No, no problem. Speaking of attention-seeking gas bags whose throats, I wanna hear noises from Cortez. Go on. Yeah, that was not a great intro.

There you are. What the hell was that intro? You're a professional podcaster and journalist. I'm embarrassed by that last 20 seconds. I don't know what you're doing. Where is your PJ Tucker jersey? Oh my God. So I just want to, first of all, don't worry about where I am.

I'm in Japan. Nice staircase. Beautiful background. David Sampson was right. The text I sent you was alarming. It was not meant for air. I sent it to you at a time where I did not know we had PJ Tucker. That's what happened. air. I sent it to you at a time

where I did not know we had PJ Tucker. That's what happened. And then I found out we got PJ Tucker and everything is okay. Like today's a good day. I don't like how you guys are talking about this trade. Not only did we get PJ Tucker,

we got a lockdown defender. Do you want me to read you some stats? It's a PJ Tucker. You just stole this. Well, no, no, no, not just PJ Tucker. I'm going to read you some stats. These are players' shooting numbers,

wind guarded by Andrew Wiggins. Luka Doncic, 5 for 16. Anthony Edwards, 7 for 21. SGA, 5 for 12. Donovan Mitchell, 5 for 12. Cade Cunningham, Tony's favorite, 0 for 6. LeBron James, 3 for 9. Not bad. Boy, those are lockdown. LeBron James, 3 for 9.

That's really good. Boy, those are locked down. This is a big sample size. Well, those are all individual matchups this year, is what Cortez is reading. I understand. And? Well, no, I mean, the sample sizes are obviously small. It's more the idea of going up against the other team's best offensive player,

having someone in that starting line of the side. You know what? I don't want to team myself with Cortez. He's doing stuff. What I can't get over is that when Cortez is, what you're doing is moving around revealing that you're not in Japan. What? It's a Japanese, what are you talking about?

No, don't move, just stay perfectly still. Can you, look, look at his glasses. Does that look like the glasses of a man who isn't in Japan? I do love those glasses. The glasses are an incredibly effective upgrade. How is anyone going to score at the end of a game when it's Hiro, Wiggins, Jovich, Bam, and Khalil Ware?

How are you gonna score a point? If they have a lead, they won't need to. It's a good point. We're gonna have to score on our own, but defensively, it's in the making. It started with Hiro, though. I'm sorry, Cortez. I spent most of this week reading your posts and they were all about how

You know Pat Riley doesn't have it Jimmy Butler You are on his side. What this is come on. It's been a wild swing of emotions I have in the past 24 hours tweeted about Pat Riley needing a new job I have blocked Jimmy Butler on Instagram and I do think Pat Riley's at fault here. I think he should have either paid Jimmy or traded him a year ago, bringing him into this year with no new contract, no new teammates that are any good, not a good idea.

But now that we're here, I mean, Andrew Wiggins? Go ahead, Amin. Cortez, I wanna ask, cause I have to know what your emotional level was like for those few hours where it was Durant for Jimmy Butler straight up. Where it got so heightened was I was texting people, would you trade hero for Durant? Would you trade BAM for Durant? That's how bad I wanted Kevin Durant.

I was willing to trade BAM out of bio for him. So yeah, Pablo was asking, where were you when you heard the news? To me, that was an interesting question. I was watching The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City reunion part three, and I got the news about Jimmy. I cannot believe you produced my show. I had to turn off the show because what I was trying to do is read texts while watching the great reunion. I couldn't do it, so I had to turn it off. But that's what I was doing. All I'm seeing is Ryan Cortez tweets from 2022 where he asks at KDTray5, have you ever

had a guava pastelito? That's not how you pronounce that. Guava pastelito. Ryan Cortez, Minister of Information. This is ridiculous. A means that's something the answers into me too, where he was saying Jimmy and Bernie are masters at making a mess of this. Great point.

I think in retrospect, if Dame Lillard had done this playbook in Milwaukee, not only did the Heat get him, but then Domino Effect, Jimmy no longer wants to leave, and then you've got Dame and Jimmy. At the time this was happening with Dame, I was saying, you need to make a mess. Dan was saying the same thing. It has to be Miami or nothing, and you make got Dame and Jimmy. At the time this was happening with Dame, I was saying, you need to make a mess. Dan was saying the same thing. It has to be Miami or nothing and you make a mess of it.

It's exactly right. Damien Lillard is the example of professional, do it the right way, good soldier, and what happens? He gets sent not where he wanted to be and has been generally miserable pretty much over the- Who wouldn't wanna be in Milwaukee? I love Milwaukee. Do not impugn Milwaukee.

I love Milwaukee too, but that's not where he wanted to be. So Cortez, can you speak for Heat fans then? And how do we look back on this Jimmy Butler era? Do we feel bad for Jimmy Butler on the way out because it doesn't seem like he'll be embraced as much? Or is this kind of the bed that he made? No, I mean, look, at this moment he's a traitor and I don't want to retire his number.

But the zoomed out view is obviously it's an enormous success. Zach Low wrote two months before the Jimmy Butler trade that the Heat had the bleakest future of any team in the NBA and he wasn't wrong. I mean, it was insane that they got Jimmy and got to finals. I mean, when they got Jimmy, as Dan has pointed out,

that was supposed to be move number one, and then you get two or three guys. So the idea that just Jimmy, it was an enormous success. And I hope one day they do retire his number, but for now he's dead to me. I don't like Sobra Cortez. Cortez put on these circular glasses, and he woke up trying to be level-headed.

And I just am not, look, the one thing I am not today is fooled by Ryan Cortez. I'm not fooling anyone. I mean, look, I would have preferred to have Kevin Durant. I think if we get Kevin Durant, you get me with sunglasses today, you get a different version. It's hard to put on the sunglasses when it's Andrew Wiggins.

But, lockdown defender, and what I'm really excited about is PJ Tucker. I can't lie. I like PJ Tucker more than LeBron James when it comes to what they meant to the Heat. That's a legitimate take that I have. That's not a take, that's idiocy. There's two rings from LeBron.

Two, how many rings from PJ Tucker? Well, if you count the one that I count, which is they were up in the first nine minutes of game one against the Lakers in that finals, and then bam, and Gorin got hurt. I count that as a ring. So technically they have one to answer your question. I love you.

That's the Cortez I like. I don't like the Cortez or he's giving me stats and stuff like that. I like the Cortez. Very monotone. Well that's Cortez. Oh he seems medicated. He's always medicated.

Well he's ooze tanking. Ooze tanking bro. Know what it is. No I don't. He's trying to grow on you. Tanking who's taking bro know what it is no I don't Row on you can we get him out of here? This isn't I don't want this anymore I can't DJ Tucker before I leave just mention PJ Tucker more. He's one of the old time culture players It's a lot of love of God Cortez yeah three best he's on the bottom down father. We don't need to hear this anymore We're crushing Dan right now. He gets that floater and he get about what I can't look Nobody can we get someone in Miami who will just admit to feeling the deep fear of irrelevance

The deep fear Are not gonna care about talking about this about this even a fraction as much anymore. Pablo, hold on. I gotta explain this for everybody, not just the listening audience, but also the YouTube audience because the cameras don't capture everything at the right time.

You started your statement, can we just get someone in Miami who, and Jeremy stood up like, this is my chance, and then you said irrelevancy, and he just had this look like a dog that you faked through a ball for and it turns And there's like wait. There's no ball. What happened just confused just utterly confused irrelevance We're gonna be talking about you guys got a manufacturer gin up PJ Tucker and Andrew Wiggins takes. It's not that's what we're doing

No one cares We've been doing it too long. We haven't spoken about Pete Alonso. We haven't spoken about the Lakers Yeah, nobody wants to hear about Pete Alonzo, we haven't spoken about the Lakers. Yeah, the show cares a lot. Pete Alonzo? I gave the best Pete Alonzo stat that's ever happened and they kicked me out of the show. No one cares. The Lakers have pulled off, by the way, okay,

I have another question for everybody. Raise your hand if you knew who Mark Williams was before he was traded to the Lakers. I feel like Ameen, Izzy, and Jeremy have to raise their hand whether they have or not, just because that is what they trade in, it's their job. He was a first round pick for the Hornets. Oh, he's not really good.

Turns out. We have not seen a Charlotte Hornets game since. Finish that sentence. Injured. You don't think the Lakers overpaid for Williams? I'm sorry? Did the Lakers overpay? No.

And a win-now situation for the Lakers needing a center? No. The reporting was that Luca really stressed to Polinka, I need a lob threat. That's kind of what Anthony Davis was saying, hey, can we get someone to play center so I don't have to? But, you know, and it's true, if you look at everything that happened for them last year, it happened after they acquired Gafford, pretty much to go alongside Lively. So he is, Mark Williams fits that bill.

He's an incredible rebounder. He's a body in the paint, and he's young. A lot of other names that they were talking about were guys that were kind of over the hill. And if your thing is this isn't Lebron's team anymore, this is Luca Donchich's team, then yes, you go out and you get young. You don't get Jonas Valentunis, you don't get Nikola Vujcevic. Now, the problem is what they gave up, is what David is talking about, because they gave up Dalton Connect, who a lot of people liked, he's a pretty good shooter. They gave up a

Dalton Connect, who a lot of people like, he's a pretty good shooter, they gave up a 20-30 first round pick that's unprotected and then a pick swap as well. Now when you talk about those things, they're far enough in the future where, on the one hand you can say, Lucas in his prime, those picks will never be anything higher than 18.

He'll still be in his prime at 29. Yeah. Won't he? What? The 2031 pick. Yes. Lucas 25. Yes.? The 2031 pick. Yes. He, how, Lucas 25. Yes. It's 2025 already.

Yes. It'll be 31, is that past his prime? He's done? No, it'll be deep in his prime. Then it'll be the end of his prime. I don't think it'll be end of his prime. I think he's, he doesn't have it. Needle to end?

It does depend on the question of how in shape is he gonna be. Right. Now and going forward. That, but also if he's healthy, he has a type of game that is not really reliant on explosion and athleticism so his game will age better than the way Russell Westbrook's game aged by way

of example. But the problem is, when you have an unprotected pick that far into the future, it's a massive futures gamble. We're basically betting, the Hornets are betting, I bet you're going gonna f this up by the end of this by the time this is available and the Lakers are saying no we won't because we got Luca Dantij the other part of this is as I look at that roster and Izzy back me up on this Luca not a great three-point shooter he's a volume shooter but he's not a great shooter LeBron good three-point shooter but mostly off the dribble and he's got the

ball in his hands Austin Reeves not a great three-point shooter, but mostly off the dribble, and he's got the ball in his hands. Austin Reeves, not a great three-point shooter. Obviously, Mark Williams, not a three-point shooter at all. So you're looking at this roster, it's like, well, beyond Rui Atchimora and Doryn Finney-Smith, neither of whom are really volume shooters, where's the spacing for this team? They could use Steve Kerr.

Yeah, they could use a 58-year-old Steve Kerr. Get him on there. This is me backing you up. That's all true. I mean, Mark Williams, 43 games in 2223. 43 doesn't sound like 81, but maybe there was something different. 2324, 19 games. It's box score stew over here. Look, if you've watched the games, you recognize this guy as a talent.

He is exactly what Luca needs. There are plenty of people who I believe have been wasting their careers in Charlotte and he is early one of them. I'm glad he's gone somewhere else. But unless you think Dalton Connect is going to be, I don't know, even JJ Reddick or some sort of, you know, laser of a two, three combo guard or small forward,

I don't think you overpaid for that. The Lakers are one of those teams where picks don't matter. It's just like the Miami Heat. Picks don't matter. I'm gonna be good all the time. That's been the thing, right? That's what's come back in this build. That's actually been what's come back to bite the heat

a couple of times is, oh no, we gave up these picks to make moves earlier on, and now, what do we do come this moment? At the same time, you need to maximize, look, you have LeBron James and Luke Dodgers on your team right now. This is the moment for the Lakers. So one of the most honest things that people

have kind of made fun of and ridiculed, but I thought it was an amazingly poignant point by Nico Harrison, was when he said, the future for us is three to four years. 10 years from now, we'll probably won't be here. And it was like, oh my God, I can't believe you said the future for us is three to four years ten years from now we'll probably won't be here and it was like oh my god I can't believe you said the quiet part out loud but the reality is that is how the majority of teams do business like when Sam Hincky your beloved Sam Hincky was doing what he was doing in Philadelphia our good friend Henry Abbott who is the head editor at

for ESPN.com for NBA coverage was singing the praises of Sam Hincky and what he was doing. And I told him, I said, Henry, it's all great, the math checks out, too bad Sam won't be around to enjoy the spoils. And Henry told me, no, this ownership group is different, they're from Wall Street, they understand. That was the mistake. And my thing is, Henry, no, this thing is the same everywhere.

It's everyone thinks they've got the great math until their kid comes home from school crying because everyone made fun of them. You said Sam Hincky and Pablo has never been more lit. I, but the thing Amin just referenced, perhaps hypothetically, was actually a thing that I am told was happening in Philadelphia. Yes.

That Josh Harris, his kids were being made fun of because the Sixers were that bad. Pablo, I called it before any of it happened. I told Henry, I said, look, this is how this shit works. It's not on paper. These are real people living real lives. You can't tell everybody, we're just gonna lose, but then we'll figure it out.

But the real people living real lives thing not on paper, typically that was an argument made on behalf of the players on the team, which was missing, I think, a through line from the two episodes we've done of this show, the two days we've done, which is follow the money. The owners are the ones who have these pressure points whose incentives should be different from the people they employ to run their front office, right?

They're going to be around in 10 years, But the people they pay to run the team, statistically are not. And so the question is always, what's your time horizon? How long is this gonna take? Will the people who you pay to be the stewards of your organization, act as if they're the stewards of a future or a present? And the conversation right now about like in the NBA,

has it ever been cheaper? Has a first round pick ever felt cheaper? Right, like just like the market value right now. Nico Hesel said no, it's actually pretty expensive, I only got one. But it's a funny thing, right? Mikhail Bridges, right? Five first round is Rudy Gobert, go down the list.

That is an example of people saying, take our future. The present is what matters to us. But the Nets have been doing that back in the Pierce Garnett days. I think the Nets did the same thing. Yeah. They mortgaged their future. It didn't work.

Then they had to start again. And it hasn't, it's forever. But the question of who has the ability to start again, right? Which teams, which markets allow that? That is a key part of that privilege. There's two pieces of math here. Piece of math one is is do we have a realistic chance of six of the ultimate success word not to be good but to win it all

right cuz that informs why for instance the wars to give up a first round pick for Jimmy Butler because they think his addition can give them a realistic chance to get one more of these or to actually prove to step curry we're doing everything we can betting on're betting on themselves. Right, that's one. The other math is the people making the decisions. Do I feel job certainty? The reason why Sam, excuse me, Sam Presti can do what he did was because Sam Presti knew

I'm not going to lose my job over this. Well, and that's where I mean, again, when I talk about markets, right? Oklahoma City versus Philadelphia Right like we're talking about when I say who has the competitive advantage David of I'm in a market in which the pressure point Is not gonna feel as painful. Did you forget about the Chicago the Cubs did it with Theo They were they lost a hundred several years in a row Baltimore is a big market. They lost and guess what they were there Wonder World series it can be done, you just have to do it right. And it's not as market related,

owners don't necessarily think the way you're saying. They don't have a GM in place saying, oh, take me through the tank and I'll fire you right when the tank's done and I'll have someone else. But I think the argument has been, the argument from Philadelphia to a means point and to my argument has been, the argument from Philadelphia to a means point and to my experience has been, owners tend to overestimate their rationality

and they underestimate how much it sucks to be made fun of. They're stomach for this. They don't have the stomach for it, and nor should they. You just paid billions of dollars to be the cool kid. Remember when you talk about Mark Cuban, there's no way you could sell the team and still run the team. It's all built on that. The reason I'm spending billions of dollars on this is not because I'm going to flip it 20 years from now and make X-fold.

It's because I want to be the cool kid. I want when people come to my parties, how do you have Usher here? Oh, well, you know, he's a good friend. You don't get to be friends with the cool people without this cool entryway, which is I own the team. And so if you, that's your starting point, you own this property because you want to look cool. Yeah, the opposite of feeling embarrassed. Then no owners feel embarrassed, though. The real winner here is Chris Cody,

who now knows what Kyle Anderson and Mark Williams look like. That's too. That's good work, and you were late today. Why you gotta bring that back? Crush is still bothering me. Don LeBretard! There's sunglasses in boxes today But in my bed in the hospital Ending our lives all the same Stugats.

You were saying David, no owner. When owners walk into a room, they're cool. People take photos, they want autographs. They're not like, oh my God, you lost a hundred games. Why do they want to be near ownership? No, no. Why do owners get autographs and give autographs and're not like oh my god you lost David why do they want to they want to be near ownership no no why do owners get autographs and give autographs and take pictures because people want to be near power near power of what of any of these guys all billion hold on these guys are billionaires right so before they own a team they should have walked in the room gotten

photos right Steve Ballmer Steve Ballmer is the number one example of this David David David there are some exceptions to, I think, your point, which is, in general, these guys are living great lives. The team tends to outlast all of the temporary news cycles. They get to be a steward of the thing that is wired into people's childhoods. But then, of course, I think of, I don't know, what's it like to be John Fisher? What's it like to be, at the time, Dan Snyder? What was it like to be Josh Harris when the Sixers were tanking?

What's it like to be these deeply unpopular people who get booed, Jim Dolan, getting booed in the garden? Jim Dolan does a lot of things. Listen, our owner used to get booed and there were negative things. Me, there were negative things from this very show. Believe me, it did not in any way go into my life. Why are we talking about the emotions of rich people?

Seriously, where did this go wrong? The mistake, the mistake is. Why do we care? Pablo brought this up, he's trying to lead the show. No, the point is a good one that Amin and I have been raising. The mistake has been, the mistake, look, the question is why are decisions made and how? It's because people tend to have a market inefficiency

when it comes to ah, you can feel embarrassment. Our mistake was asking David Sampson to be a focus group on what it's like to feel embarrassment. No, it's... Is that like a stew laugh? No. What was that? That was a laugh, I'm laughing at you. You are the person who feels the less...

Oh my God. That's a good stew laugh. That's a pretty good stew laugh. The old funny Marco. Nobody feels less embarrassment than David Sampson is my point. I do not feel embarrassed. You don't feel embarrassed. You're not, is my point. I do not feel embarrassed.

You don't feel embarrassed. You're not a billionaire though. No I'm not. I'm talking about the guys that owns the teams. They have thin skin, most of them, I will grant you that. But what we're really supposed to be talking about is the Lakers, and did the Lakers make this move because they're in win now?

That's why they were willing to overpay in order to get with the brunt. Again, it's overpaying by your opinion. I don't think too many people are assuming that. And again. I'm the only one saying it's an overpay right now? David. Anybody who's seen Mark Williams play

probably not agreeing with you. David, the overpay, if I, I'm gonna go down your side and say, yes, it's an overpay, but the overpay isn't Dalton Connect. It's the first round pick because it is unprotected and it is far enough in the future where we don't know what that team is gonna look like.

That should have gone to Dallas. Right, sure. The point I'm making is that Rob Palenka doesn't give a fuck about 2030. He's like, who cares? Am I gonna be around for that? Probably not, maybe. If I am, cool, I'll worry about it then.

But for him, the future is in the next three or four years that's real what Nico Harrison said applies to every general manager not named Andy Ellsberg RC Buford and Sam Preston yesterday he said I can't wave a wand and manufacture a big man did anyone else see the quote by Rob Palinka mm-hmm we need a big man but I can't wave one to make it happen well of course you can wave a wand all All you have to do is overpay. And they did it to Charlotte, and all of a sudden you got a big man. Overpaying though, I'm with Izzy.

I do not think this is an overpay. I think this is an example of one team needing one thing, another team needing a different thing. What, why are you holding your phone? I'm sorry to interrupt, but this is the perfect time for this. I just got the email confirming the polishing of the World Series trophy. Oh my god. Yeah, because we're all after that.

And the problem with overpaying. You sent your trophy out to be polished? You have to. That's gotta be a Venmo. It has to be a Venmo. Like this is the worst phone interruption of all time. We were talking about basketball now. We're talking about policy your trophy No, we're actually talking about winning it all which I thought was exactly the through line What does it cost to get a world series trophy?

I'm sorry did I misunderstand what the conversation was all the time where you misunderstand it all the time to me We're talking about the Lakers trying to win it all you talked about To me we're talking about the Lakers trying to win it all. You talked about Steph Curry having one more shot. Did you Google World Series Trophy Polishing Company? How did you figure out who? No, it's from Tiffany. You bring it back to Tiffany. Tiff.

So is the NBA trophy. Sounds like we're having a Tiff. It comes in the mouth. No, of course I knew what we were talking about because I'm paying attention and I'm on time. My only surprise is that David Sampson did not demand to be in the room so he could watch

his trophy getting polished. That's a horrifying. In a towel? Dear God. Definitely not in a towel. Wearing only an apron. This is a true story. I brought the trophy to Tiffany

wearing sweatpants and a sweatshirt and I was stopped by, Tiffany has a ton of security in the New York store on 57th Street and I looked schleppy. I had a tuque on and I had a hoodie, a hoodie and sweatpants. And I was carrying a World Series trophy and the assumption was that I had pilfered it.

The World Series trophy? And I was walking down the street in New it. The World Series Trophy? And I was bringing it to sense it. You're just walking down the street in New York with the World Series Trophy? I had to bring it. Unboxed, no cover, no sheet. It doesn't come in a box. Yes it does, it comes in a...

It was in a Tiffany bag, but it falls down so the flags are poking out like a little groundhog. David, there's a carrying case, that's where they wheel it in and wheel it out. So, no. Wait, I just want to process this okay. I'm surprised David could carry the World Series trophy Sometimes sometimes when I go to a friend's apartment building, and I'm carrying like food that I brought over I am asked What restaurant I'm delivered from?

Yes, David Samson finally got to feel that because he was holding the literal World Series trophy in the Tiffany Lobby Yes, and I was stopped multiple times and the only way to prove it because I had no there's no receipt for it I had to have them Google and that was hugely more defined for dude. I just love the and then they let me through There's a lot for this right? There's a penalty for this like what do it? Major asshole yeah major asshole can we do that one is he yes? Sports ownership mostly. CNN, oh wait, other menu, oh my god, there's another menu. Not getting shot or attacked by Tiffany's also.

Oh there it is. There it is. Okay. We've got a penalty, five minutes, major asshole. Major asshole, yes. Major asshole. You let this go to your head. There it is, proof that David and the trophy

are not the same height. Yes. It looks like David climbed out of the trophy. That was the picture that was used that enabled me to get it polished. Why are you still here? Yeah, Izzy man. Hey, he's got a good point. Five minutes. I love the idea, by the way, this man stole the World Series trophy

and where is the first place he went with it? Tiffany's, I got to get a positive before I can fence it This guy who clearly doesn't actually own this thing does want to make sure it's very well taken care of to reshape a little Bit of what David was saying and to maybe give him a defense is boy Charlotte can feel good about the move they made I don't think that it should be the Lakers feeling like they overpaid. And why should Charlotte feel good? Charlotte can feel good about getting a first round pick, a pick swap, and a young player

in Dalton Connect for moving on from a guy who has off been injured and maybe won't be working with the core that they're building right now. They kick the can down the line. It's a timeline thing. It's a timeline thing. This is what I'm saying. That's the thing both of you were trying to say. My co-host yesterday on the radio was like, how could Charlotte do this? Am I the only one who likes Mark Williams?

No, I like Mark Williams too. Is Mark Williams a franchise player? Well, no. Is moving him going to materially impact the Hornets' future? Well, no. That's why you give up. It's nice to have, but you go get some stuff that could be even better. What I was trying to say to David, and try to fight it which is the idea that the Lakers make that move

It in part because Rob Palinka doesn't care What happens in 2030 yes? Yes, this is by the way to bring it all the way back around to our frustration as to why? Kevin Durant didn't get traded. Right, the Phoenix Suns have been the number one example in sports history of saying, all we care about right now is the present. Everything else, we will take a payday loan from Danny Ange, take three first rounders, whatever it is, right? Give us that, we'll give you everything such that 2031, basically we're behaving at the Phoenix Sons

Organization as if the apocalypse will come in 2030. We'll all be wiped off the planet. It's the global warming theory. Just it's happening in five years. And like I said, there's two parts of it. One part of it is the, I don't give a shit. We're not even going to be here anyway, right? But then there's another part of it.

What Golden State is doing, what I think Phoenix in theory was doing, which is we've got a special talent. We owe it to them to give them every tool possible to go out and win right now. It's the same thing for the Lakers with LeBron. It's hard to look at this guy who's an all-time great, who's still playing at a high level and say, yeah, we're just going to pump this year and then we'll see how it goes next year. You can't say that to those guys at that age. So they're trying to say the window's open now, we can't just expect it to be open forever.

Mike Danton used to tell this story all the time, that Dan Marino told him. He went to the Super Bowl, what, his second year in the league or whatever, and they lost, and he said, that's alright, we'll get them next year. And then never went back to the Super Bowl. You can't sit around thinking, oh shit, we'll just get better and eventually we'll get back and it'll be all right. You don't know how long this window's open.

So they've got to force their way through, but also what reinforces that behavior is the knowledge that hey, if this doesn't work out, doesn't matter, because I'm not gonna be holding the bucket when that happens anyway. It's some other poor schmo who's gotta inherit that situation. I mean, you wanna hear a scenario that's gonna either make you laugh or drive people crazy?

I hand it over to Jeremy. So Phoenix is terrible, right? There's more, I thought just handing it over. Yeah, just me in general is not great for everyone listening. But the Phoenix is in a terrible spot now, right? Cause they've shown Kevin Durant, they were willing to move on from him. And their team is relatively mediocre.

And Beale has been, as is obvious, an impossible guy to move, a contract to move. So what's to say that this off season, they don't decide now's the time to blow it up? That they look at Houston and they take Devin Booker and they say, hey, we'll take all of our picks back plus more. Buddy, let me tell you something right now.

I know we're on the week of like, Luka Doncic got traded, but Devin Booker. No, let him get there, let him get there. Okay, go ahead. All this was to set up is the idea of, is Durant not an equally depressed asset come this summer and why overpay now and know that that type of guy could be available in the same aspect of the world?

Is Pat Riley eventually going to land Kevin Durant? This is a fifth pursuit. No, I think that Phoenix is the most interesting team at the end of all of it. At the end of all of this, it's Phoenix that's most interesting because of the lack of movement, not the additions. They're the team that I'm looking at and going, look at those two guys who are now sitting

right there on that roster. They're holding out. They're denying reality. And they've been doing it for a year. For everyone who looked at the heat and said the same thing, it was a team that was forced to look internally and decide to go with a younger core in Miami, but Phoenix is in one of the strangest positions of any franchise in the league.

The Suns are catastrophically run. Their owner, we've done this, of course, on Populatory Finds Out, we did an episode about Matt Ishbia, about how he runs his organization. It is uncoincidental that he runs his organization like someone who is familiar with mortgages. He is the mortgage king of America. Subprime.

I mean, look, the details are in the piece. It was lawyered and for reasons that are, I think, gonna be obvious to you. But in terms of timelines, he has run that team like he is going to disappear in 2030 and this raises many questions But one of the questions I have is is it the case now? Motivated by Jeremy's observation. I mean that Kevin Durant actually was too good a soldier He needed to be a worse soldier the bad soldier theory of getting what you want. He needed more Jimmy Butler

What what what did Kevin Drent want though? He didn't want to go to Golden State and that's why no deal was made because he didn't want to go there What does he actually want? I don't know and I think he would probably hazard all of us from Guessing what he wants cuz you guys don't know who I am and why I think I'm like, okay, dude relax but he flexed the power to not get to Golden State and probably just didn't want to do any more than that and Miami was sitting there and those two teams couldn't come to a deal so he says alright I'll chill out in

Phoenix which is where I wanted to be to begin with that at least seems to be where Kevin Durant is at it makes all of this that much more interesting that a player like that was available and now goes into a year where he's an expiring contract next year for anyone around the league to look at what's going on in Phoenix and go, is it worth moving something to go get that guy? And would Phoenix be willing to do it now another summer into a season that, unless they go on some sort of

really ridiculous special run that no one anticipates, will be another disappointment. I mean, I think you look at it and you got an expiring deal as you said he's in the last of his deal next season. Beal has proven to be difficult to move. Booker's not going to get moved because he is the everything for that franchise. And despite them acquiring those picks a couple of weeks ago from Utah in order to give themselves some flexibility. They don't have a whole lot of flexibility

in terms of what they can make happen, that savory that upgrades that roster, and that second apron looms large above them. Durant might be their only way out in terms of getting out from under this and trying to run this the right way. Are we, just the second apron thing, right, before we just fully feed yet more Miami propaganda.

The second apron thing, I mean, and David, I don't wanna get into the weeds of explaining what that is because it's just, I guess the summary is, it's an even more punitive tax on top of the tax teams used to pay. But what we're saying is that this rule has changed the economy of basketball transactions. Yes, but not because of the financial impact.

That's what the problem or the- Explain, please, please explain. So once upon a time, the league said, we're spending too much. We need to curtail spending. How are we gonna do it? If you spend beyond this number, which is way above the salary cap,

we're gonna institute a dollar for dollar luxury tax. Ooh, that'll stop guys from spending, but guess what, it didn't. People kept spending, so they said, in the next collective bargaining agreement, we gotta do something crazier. I know what it is. It'll escalate.

So after $10 million above, it'll go to 150 for every dollar. At $20 million, it'll go for 250, et cetera, et cetera. That didn't do it. Then they said, oh, we'll have repeater taxes. So if you've been in the luxury tax habitually, your tax is actually even bigger of a jump from threshold to threshold. That didn't stop.

And they realized, you know what's gonna stop people from overspending? It's not money, it's not fines. It's taking away the ability to improve the roster. Hey, we're gonna stop you from signing and trading. Hey, when you do a trade, it has to be 100% salary for salary match. Hey, your mid-level exception, way smaller than everybody else's. And that's what this is right now.

This is the fully realized, if you do these things, you can spend however much you want. But if you do, you better hope you love your team, because if you don't, like the Phoenix Suns, changing becomes immediately very, very difficult. So it's working. Hi, David. Yes, it's finally what they wanted. This is what you tried in baseball. It was called the cone tax, and the irony is

the cone tax is now the Dodgers tax. It's a level of threshold that is punitive, and now there's picks involved, draft picks, placements in the draft, and in a capped sport, it becomes even more critical to have these punitive things. And I would argue it's been working. You have an owner right here in Miami, Mickey Harrison,

for all the love that we give him as the best owner in South Florida, he focuses on the luxury tax tremendously year over year. I don't know if he's- I knew that man was saying the list. Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe is he just will not agree with anything I say today. tremendously year over year. I don't know if this is easy to agree. I knew that man so sandalus. Ha ha ha ha. Izzy just will not agree with anything I say today. That's fine.

That wasn't me singing. I knew that man so sandalus. Are you gonna deny that Mickey Harrison is. Howard, how is David not aware of how the show works? I will not hear Mickey Harrison hatred because somehow he's been able to own a team and still be fiscally responsible while allowing Pat Riley to do his thing for 30 years and they've been relevant for a long time. So maybe he's doing it, right?

So what you're saying is that maybe Okay, all right No, we're still in here Go a little bit longer. Is there a penalty for that? I have been trying, David. I am trying to do the show. I'm leaving. That's it. Chris, play the sound. Press the button.

Ooh, that man's so sandal-less. Hey folks, it's Mike Ryan. It is Big Game Week. And I've got just the thing to make your big game time a Miller Time. From fireside conversations to football Sundays, winter means more moments with the coolest people in your life.

Make these moments even better with Miller Lite, the great tasting light beer for people who love beer. A new year is a perfect time for friends, family, and great tasting light beer. Tastes like Miller Time. Miller Lite is brewed for taste. It hits different than other light beers and when you're hosting your ultimate game day party why don't you bring out a beautiful silver platter of that amazing white can and know you will make everybody there happy because Miller Lite is the original light beer since

1975 and still the very best one. Miller Lite, great taste, 96 calories. Go to MillerLite.com slash stand to find delivery options near you or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. Tastes like Miller time. Celebrate responsibly Miller Brewing Company Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.