The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - The Big Suey: Stan Van Frozen

Episode Date: April 23, 2025

Tonight's Magic and Celtics game begins at 7 PM Eastern on TNT followed by Warriors and Rockets. Also, David Samson's coldest firings of all time. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Cuervo. Welcome to the Big Sui, presented by DraftKings. Why are you listening to this show? The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan LeBattard podcast. I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize for that. In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging. I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries if they're just there.

That hasn't happened to you guys? I've done it. And now, here's the marching man to nowhere, fat face and the habitual liar. Well, let's see if we can navigate it in this particular thicket that I head into with David Sampson of Nothing Personal. David Sampson, as I've told you on his podcast, tackles a lot of stuff. A lot of other people won't. And so I imagine there's a lot of stuff a lot of other people won't and so I imagine there's a bit of a difference right now between how Shannon Sharp is being covered in the mainstream media and how it is that the internet discusses him now as David as

we talked about journalism this is what you had happen yesterday that I was watching I was like whoa all right that's different so McAfee's got his own thing that he rents to ESPN and that's a wrestling show and now a wrestling character is talking about the Shannon Sharp lawsuit on ESPN's airwaves but Pat McAfee has his thing. Stephen A Smith has his thing and spends his entire show away from ESPN saying this is a podcast I own and operate and he's talking about all the things related to Shannon Sharpe that he can discuss while in the unusual thicket David where I'm reading Disney getting headlines and no comments around

19 year old woman Allegedly mad because of an Instagram live that Was Shannon Sharp having sex loudly with another woman all of this in Disney's thicket and you've got McAfee's got his own show Stephen A Smith has his own show and Shannon Sharp is on Instagram not talking about it on ESPN now

outing and doxxing an Accuser and there's a big public fight in which a lawyer for Shannon Sharp is saying That the woman turned down a ten million dollar settlement. This story is a mess. We should be waiting for facts. There's more time for it to unspool. But what do you make of what you've seen so far? Well, first we have to talk about what a settlement means. Just because it's been so unclear where people assume when you make a settlement offer, that means that you're automatically guilty or that you've done the underlying action. Actually, it's a math equation, believe it or not. When you have a lawsuit that is pending, you speak to your lawyers and they talk to you about the probability. So if he's being sued for $50 million, stay with me here, Dan. And the lawyer says, Shannon, there's a 10% chance

of this happening, of the victory against you, of you losing. 10% of 50 million is 5 million bucks. That means the value of the lawsuit is 5 million bucks. But the legal fees are going to be $8 million, no matter what. If you have no liability or if you're found liable for 50 million, you're gonna pay me eight million. That's a total of 13 million dollars. That's when you go to the other side and you say, I'll give you 10. That doesn't mean I did it, doesn't mean I didn't do it. It's called a nuisance settlement amount

and it's discovered through a simple math equation based on probability and that's all it does So when the 10 million was offered now people go crazy. Oh my god How can you be so stupid as to say you didn't do it and then offer 10? That's how Take us through the most interesting parts of this understanding that it's a civil suit and understanding that there were strategic leaks over the weekend in order to try, and people were prepared for whatever this weekend brought.

So when you have a lawsuit and or you're negotiating a contract, you absolutely whether it's with a player, whether you're buying another business in the business world, there's all sorts of publications that we don't focus on in sports media. There's business publications,

there's industry publications where leaks happen all the time. And they're done to further your position in a negotiation. It is no shock that Shannon Sharp has out there that there is a hundred million dollar offer for his show. That there are multiple hundred million dollar offers for his show. That doesn't mean hundred million dollar offers for his show. That doesn't mean they exist.

We've seen that in the sports world where agents say, oh, we've got five teams interested in my player at 25 million and you know there aren't even two teams. But you feel like you're in the dark so you may make a bigger offer. What Sharp is doing with his show is smart, trying to maximize value by leaking out there that there could be nine figure offers multiple.

Then all of a sudden, sorry, go ahead. David, if I'm in a courtroom and I take the Fifth Amendment, I'm not incriminating myself, yet the public perception would be, what is he hiding, why doesn't he wanna answer? In this case, would you agree that Shannon Sharp, if it's true offering a ten million

dollars settlement from a public relations standpoint sort of makes you think if it did you not hear what he just said though like just a did you know understand but we're talking about public perception now well but not david i guess i don't know that he wasn't necessarily listening i was listening okay i was not a but he's just talking about he's coming into this position what greg is saying to you as i've arrived at the opposition the ten million dollars means you're guilty you explained

everything you did and he's like yeah and ten million dollars still makes me feel like you're guilty i i understand that when a lawyer is telling me that and and when a former club president is telling me that when i'm asking you is from a public perception standpoint does that serve shannon charp to have it out there and i understand his question this regard david they've decided to make a mud fight out of this and and if all of this gets this kind of dirty it's the kind of thing you're exactly trying to avoid when

everybody is fighting over money anymore though i though, I don't think. Exactly. I'm curious to hear David's thoughts on this. It seems as though media personalities, especially in sports, have taken their hint from politics and how they just power through. Steve Smith, his name is in the news cycle for two days and he moves on, he persists. Shannon Sharp has learned that,

especially when it comes to Busby, this is the exact same Busby sued Jay Z and he is going about it the exact same way that Jay Z and his camp did. And that was very effective for Jay Z. So David, I'm curious your thoughts on this bit of sea change. We're dealing with a societal shift when it comes to morality is applied to these things. The punishment that people get just for allegations is also shifted because Shannon Sharp, back in the day, he'd be pulled from television for five days even if he didn't do anything at the very least.

And that's kind of changed. They're affording him the opportunity to defend himself. It's a bit different these days. Well, what's interesting to me is whether or not ESPN was involved in the decision to allow Shannon Sharp to make the statement he made because you tell your client it's the number one rule. Be quiet. Anything you say is not going to help you. But now with social media, the shift is it doesn't impact a jury.

It doesn't impact what an award would be, but it impacts your ability to monetize your platform. What Shannon Sharp decided with his lawyer is that the mud fight and the publicity on your show, Dan, on Stephen's show, on McAfee's show, everybody's talking about him. And the equation was we are not getting lower offers for my club shay-shay and all the stuff that I do as a free agent, just because I'm involved in this mud fight. As a matter of fact, what I'm learning is,

I'm getting more offers and more money. The more outrageous things are. That's what bothers me about this is that the moral center that used to exist for what Mike just described as the five day rule, which is if anything that you are accused of a network would pull you, it would be called administrative leave, paid leave, you can call it, but you would not be on the air and therefore you'd be silenced because there was no social media.

There'd be no way to get your point across. Now companies have been neutered because employees have the ability to reach more people almost on their own. So Shannon Sharp has this strategy. Will it work? The only way we'll know is with his free agent signing as a podcast. It's not about the settlement with this woman

or Tony Busby or any of it. It's what happens to his show and if his show becomes less valuable Then you know that they made the wrong decision in terms of PR but David you're watching this play out, right? We're all seeing the same thing if the numbers are reported at a hundred million for Shannon Sharp You're looking at McAfee Shannon Sharpven a smith or all worth the same thing they all getting the same contract and they all have their side kids side gigs and so steven a yesterday's in the weird position of it felt like to me david i don't know if you heard what he was doing on his own show

he's in the unusual position uh... at as he's considering a presidential run while building his own thing. And he it felt to me like he wouldn't want Shannon Sharp to be back on the air. But we're playing a totally different game now where McAfee, Stephen A and Shannon Sharp all have the same amount of money and power. Well, you also have to just think about who's president now and what platform that Trump used to become president. And you think if Stephen A. Smith is going to run for president, he was very measured

in his 20 minutes on his show. He actually said, I don't know anything. I brought Shannon to ESPN. I attempted he was he's my partner. He's my friend. And I want to believe him because I want it to not be true. But I just don't know. But by the way, he did a read for prize picks before the show.

He then did an entire conversation about how he has ESPN bosses, how, while it's his own show, the podcast, he's got other employers. So he was very measured because you don't want to be on the wrong side of this. No matter whether it's your friend or not. Having nothing to do with being president. As a matter of fact, you have a better chance to become president than monetizing your podcast if you're on the wrong side of an issue like this one. And in the middle of it, right, just powering through, oh my God, I don't know what's true there where a woman just got strategically outed yesterday by name, right?

And so that's like, that's where this gets super dirty wherever it is that Shannon Sharp can frame here as a victim. Yeah, I'm not a journalist, but I thought that there was a very rule. There was a rule that everyone followed that you did not disclose the name of a victim of a sexual assault. I just assumed that that rule was still in place and you do file under Jane Doe in order to that's very common. It's common both criminally and civilly in order to protect the name of the person involved, the victim.

But in this case, what Shannon Sharpe did, you have every right to name a person. You have every right to defend yourself in any court of law, any legal action. That's an interesting choice, though, because more so than the $ million dollar settlement offer I found the choice to name the name the more suspect choice. Well David. I don't think it was necessary. David well wait a minute so now it gets dirtier and dirtier and more and more shameless and you know Mary Kate Cornett is suing Pat McAfee allegedly because you can't just be on these

airwaves ruining lives David there. There has to be a standard, right? And- Well, there is, Dan. There are laws about that. There's libel, there's slander, there's defamation, there's absolute protection. And when you are a public figure, you give up many of those protections.

And that is well established by the Supreme Court. You, Dan, people can say anything they want about every one of us on this show actually, and there is nothing that we can do about that. Any other takes that you can find helpful here while trying to navigate the the you know, we don't know what the facts on some of these things are, but we know that things are loud explosive and going to get messy before we even get to the facts. Yeah, the biggest thing that I'm thinking about is Disney.

And you know, you heard Bob Iger at the World Congress of Sport talking about the DTC, the direct to consumer that they're gonna have with the SPN, Jimmy Patara was talking about it. They have a lot of eggs in that basket. We don't know what the name of it yet is, but what we do know is that it is so critical for Disney, for the Disney company and for its share price,

is to make this ESPN new platform successful. It is so critical whether there is any shine that gets tarnished by any of the people in that orbit. And that becomes a big deal in the boardroom, because in the Disney boardroom, they don't much care care and I know you don't understand or believe this actually not understand it of course you do. They don't really focus on oh wow you know McAfee's famous, LeBotard's famous and so is Stephen A and Shannon Sharp.

They're great voices in the boardroom they're focused on far different and bigger issues and they're not going to let anything get in the way of a company being profitable and growing. And so Shannon just has to be careful here, although I could argue that everyone should always be careful in every regard, but often they're not. What would you have been advising, Shannon Sharp, around the idea that first take and Disney

isn't gonna want any of this around them. Like there's gonna want to be some sort of separation even if we're doing innocent till proven guilty. So how do you? Well, it's not criminal. You're the second person in the media who said that. No, fair point. Yes, it's a civil.

Keep in mind. Yeah, my bad. So that threshold is different. It's not even beyond a reasonable doubt. That's all criminal and this is not a criminal case. So, and this is not me defending Shannon or not. It's not about that. I'm just trying to give you the facts.

And I just, what concerns me most about what Shannon did and forget the action that he's accused of, which we don't know, we don't know the facts. What the reason why we should all be quiet about this issue is that we don't know. And we're in the world of speculation. That's what we do in sports media and in business, but it would be far more interesting

to speculate on things happening with sports teams and the business of sports than when it involves a person and a violent sexual act. I don't wanna be in the business of speculating about that on either side because it's not appropriate. I'd much rather speculate why everyone's gonna watch the draft instead of a Marlins game. All right, then let's move on to other sports subject,

the Paul Skeens bobblehead situation. Can you explain to me how that could have gone worse? Oh, this is a great story. Paul Skeens, I didn't get one of these bobbleheads for you guys. Paul Skeens is the best pitcher in baseball in theory, the face of baseball, and the Pirates who have had a bunch of missteps this season in the organization. They did a bobblehead night, but they didn't do a bobblehead for everybody.

So unlike Ohtani with the Dodgers, where everyone got a bobblehead and still they waited online for four hours, in Pittsburgh they really did wait online for multiple hours because they didn't know whether they'd get one. And then the pirates announced, by the way, just kidding, everyone can get one. And I was laughing about this because when we do a bobblehead order, we don't have an extra five or 8,000 bobbleheads

sitting around. We get an extra palette to give to the player and to the employees and the staff, but did they just buy all those extra and they were gonna sit on them? Why wouldn't they have announced from the beginning that they were doing 20,000 or 25,000? It's just such a great example.

The pirates are just stepping in it, and I feel for Cody, this all happened because of Cody, because it's his favorite hat. And he wears that pirate hat all the time. And I just feel like you can't wear it anymore, Chris. Fair, I'll retire it. You need to. Thoughts on Aaron Rodgers' Jets exit?

Is he joking? You're telling me, I've done a lot of bad stuff as a president. I never had a play or fly in. I always fly to them. I flew to Pittsburgh to fire a guy. I went to a guy's house. I went to a guy's parking lot to the airport once.

You're telling me that Aaron Rodgers got on a private plane, flew to New York and Aaron Glenn said in the first five seconds, we're not bringing you back as quarterback. Give me a break. I'm not buying it for one second. What Aaron is, what Aaron Rogers is selling about Aaron Glenn. He just sounds like a bitter washed up quarterback. So why is he doing that? I think he's trying to elicit sympathy because people said, well, I can't believe you had to spend money to go get fired. It's, it's actually silly to me. Uh, Rodgers knew before that meeting, and he was there, my guess is, begging for an option

because he wanted the option. It's actually a money difference for him, and it's just, he's pretending that he hasn't made a decision. All of it is just straight poppycock to me. Aaron complained a lot about the leaks inside that organization. I guess credit to the Jets

for letting Aaron shape this narrative and just close the book on him, we're done, we're not going to be in the business of leaking stuff out about Aaron, even though David just articulated something that I hadn't considered, which is, yeah, Aaron could also be lying. There's that. The story couldn't be fully on the up and up. And I guess we should probably all scrutinize what Aaron Rodgers says a little bit more. I thought we scrutinize everything he says. Can you imagine how the phone call, Hey, Aaron, do me a favor and fly to meet me in my office in Florida. Well, what's it about? No, I want to talk about next year's plan. All right, I'll be there. And then two seconds in, by the way, you're fired. There's no way the Jets did that. And if it turns out to be true, I would fire Aaron

Glenn right now. Okay. That's what I wanted to ask because if Aaron is telling the truth here, my whole thing was, look, they didn't draw this out. They told you to your face. He brought in the general manager. We're not going to bring you back. That's a direct conversation. That might seem foreign considering how long Aaron Rogers likes to stretch things out. But I thought that that was actually respectful of his time. You're saying that if Aaron Rogers and his story about Aaron Glenn is true,

that is actually worthy of the criticism that Aaron Rogers is directing their way. If it's true, yes. If they were gonna get rid of him, and if I'm Aaron Glenn, I'm flying to him in California. That would be the way to show Aaron Rodgers respect and to have this beyond reproach is just to fly to California, go to his house because then you can fire him in two seconds, tell him he's not coming back and you're good. You can even have him at a lunch and you do it at the beginning and say, hey, if you want to stay for the Greek salad,

be my guest or you can just go home, but you don't make them fly across country. All right, we've got to go, David, because Stan Van Gundy has arrived. Just give me the coldest firing. Where'd you have to go? Did you say a parking lot? The coldest firing, where you had to go somewhere and just like ransack someone on the way to their car.

Well, that is a bad one, but no, I flew to Pittsburgh, but I didn't have time to go to the guy's house, so I made him come to the airport, and I went out of security, fired him, and then went back through security to fly back to Florida. All right, excellent work by you, Samson. You're the most, you're ruthless. Look at Stan Van Gundy, just mortified by you.

No, Stan wants to be rid of you. Get out of here. You are just a cold corporate demon. You love, he takes pride in telling that story. I ran through security, fired the guy and ran out. Smiled the whole time. Most. Well, I flew to see him though.

I didn't make him fly to me. Get out of here, get out of here. No. He just loves, why does he love telling stories? Look at Tony, Welcome, Tony. Thank you, Dan. Kevlar. You're disgusted by David Sandson.

I'm never, the thing is, like I continually hear these stories of how David has done terrible things to people, right? But then he one-ups it every single time where I'm like, I didn't know he just went, like he literally, you know the meme, I don't know if what, I think it's a family guy where he comes in, puts his hat on the little rat.

Is it Simpsons? Comes in, puts his hat on the rack, comes back out and just goes back. Like that's David Samson in the security line of the airport. Hey, by the way, buddy, you're fired. See ya. And just keeps going. It's like diabolical. Hey guys, it's Lucy and I'm about to tell you about the most incredible, unforgettable

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Oh, I like firing people. So I take the opportunity to fire whenever I possibly can because I can use it as a learning experience for them and try to help them out and try to point out what they did wrong. But in this case, the employee was enough levels below where I was that I did not do the firing, but I had it done within moments of discovery.

I'm just like firing people. It's just absurd. It's absurd. Stugats. I'm talking about people who I fire who deserve it, who have done something that actively requires me to fire them. It is my unadulterated pleasure to do so. This is the Don LeBattar Show with the StuGuard.

["The Stugard Show Theme"] Stan, it's nice to see you. We've got magic at Celtics tonight. Mike Ryan was just talking about Aaron Rodgers. Mike Ryan has read the audiobook. Stan, I need a ruling from you. If you've listened to the audiobook, have you read the book?

I believe that is a- I'm sorry, Dan, I lost you there for a second. What book are we talking about? The question is, if you have listened to an audio book, have you read the book? No. Have lost you again. All right. We'll take that as a yes.

We will. We'll take that as a no. I'll take that as a yes in all caps. Did he plead the fifth there or what happened? Okay, look, David Samson is back heroically. I'm back. David back. I thought we got rid of you.

Why are you taking so much pride? Why are you taking pride in firing people? No, I'm taking pride in being a team player because I saw Stan Van Gundy like this. Yeah. And so I thought there was a chance that you were gonna need a bailout. And so I stayed on the Zoom thinking

that you may have to come back to me. Well, you're welcome. Yes, no, heroically, there's David Sampson to save us while he's ruthlessly cutting and gutting our company. Yes, because what second place to I ran through security to fire somebody? What finishes second to that? Chasing a guy through a parking lot.

Go ask a former pitching coach named Brad Arnsberg how he got fired. It's a great story. It was like running. It was insane. I don't know if you remember that name. It's a name from a long time. No, I do remember.

It was like, I remember you, there was a that name. It's a name from a long time. No, I do remember. It was like, I remember you. There was a tow truck. It wasn't there. Like, you were climbing around a staircase in an apartment complex. There was video of you guys, like, chasing him to a second floor apartment. Wasn't there?

I don't think that video exists. But I will seed my time to SVG, who has far more important things to talk about Than me climbing parking lots like Tom Cruise. All right, just stay to the side there We'll see if we can get Stan Van Gundy's technology, right? He's got magic at Celtics is at 7 o'clock tonight on TNT It's followed by game two of Warriors at Rockets. And the question I was asking, Stan, is if Mike Ryan has heard an audio book about Aaron Rodgers,

has he read a book about Aaron Rodgers? I would say yes, that counts. Congratulations. I feel good about that. Adam, you got the answer, yes already? We got the answer. I was finally, it was worth it. I was a little scared when you prefaced it a yes already. I feel good with that. Congratulations. It was worth it.

I was a little scared when you prefaced it by Mike Ryan first, because that's all sorts of coding. People have already made up their minds at that point. I'm glad we got our tremendous payoff. How can you say you read a book when what you did was hear a book? Because how do I say I heard a book and not get looked at weird? So now I say I read a book with my ears. So what of it, man?

I heard a book. Look, I paid some money. I contributed to the hard work that this person did and I consumed their art. Okay with my ears You get half credit for reading a book You retain the information in the book it counts, right? Sorry. I'm people make art It's the word read Stumbling on I mean you haven't read a book if you haven't read a book. Break down these societal norms, my friend.

I don't know what to tell you. Media's changed. Oh, books. Okay. All right. We lost Stan again. David back. Why are you back?

David came back to fire Stan Van Gundy from retirement. Can we for Dan to do the whole promo again? We got magic itselfix. Why? That's coming do the whole promo again. We got magic at Celtics. Why? Ask him the audio book question again. Wait, wait, wait, wait. I will in a second, but I wanna focus my attention here. Greg Cody is saying correctly, he is saying,

how have you read a book if you haven't read a book? That seems logical. It's quite a riddle he's throwing in your face. The verb is to read. Yes. Thank you. Game two, Celtics. What do we got, Dan?

Tonight's Magic at Celtics game beginning at 7 PM Eastern on TNT, followed by game two of the Warriors at the Rock. It's Dan Van Gundy, one of the famed Van Gundy brothers. And he's gone. Is gone again. All right, you know what we're gonna do? We're gonna go ahead and stop for a second and start over is what we're gonna do as a team.

And we're gonna see. Start over? I've got a movie question. We're gonna see if Stan. You gotta do Eddie Vedder again? We're gonna see if Stan Van Gundy, do you guys think you're gonna try this like six or seven times before we get it right or?

Just gonna keep doing it to me, yeah? You have live. I mean, this is to me, yeah? Keep it live. I mean, this is going pretty well, I think. Okay. David, stay with us. The climbing the scaffolding, chasing a pitching coach. Who was it? It was you and who else?

It was you and one of your minions. Was it a PR guy? No. No, it was Larry Binfest. Oh, sorry. Oh, so it was you and your general manager. He's back. The president and the general manager

were chasing through a parking lot of pitching coach to fire him, correct? Yes. There was video. It was on the news. I remember this. It was scandalous because, and was it on the second floor the third floor It was outside his apartment was he shirtless?

He was shirtless he was shirtless Stan you got us hello Every video of that unlike will This can't be what Stan is doing. I love Stan. Tonight we've got the magic. Tonight's magic at Celtics game, beginning at 7 p.m. Eastern on TNT, followed by game two of the Warriors at the Rockets. Stan, are you with us?

If you can hear me, I'm sorry. When you listen to an audio book, Stan, is it true that you can say you've read it? I think he's frozen again. I see him blinking though. He just looks confused. Maybe he's messing with us. He just doesn't like us. Stan blink a few times if you're being held hostage.

I gotcha. Alright! Yeah! Alright, yeah, we did it. Can you hold up today's newspaper with the date on it? Who has newspapers anymore? I listened to the newspaper. Oh.

He's a professional broadcaster! The Van Gundy family, they're broadcasters, they... know how to do audio things. Stan, it's good to see you. Tonight's Magic at Celtics game, beginning at 7 p.m. Eastern on TNT, followed by game two of the Warriors at the Rockets. Stan, can you hear me?

I got you. Yes! Can you read him? The question from Greg Cody is is have you read a book? How have you read a book if you have not read a book? No, I think audio books count a lot of people do it that way now, you know, that's not reading No, shouldn't you say I heard a book or I listened to a book It's the word read that you stumble on.

Really difficult time, you know, coming to grasp with the fact that I'm the most well read person in this studio. Well heard, well heard. Well heard. I'm sorry, I'm reading three books a week now. My ears are tired from all this reading. I'm reading Robert Caro's The Power's the power broker. I'm on abundance

Oh, yeah, is that 1300 pages about highways and parkways in Long Island? I don't think so It's actually about highways and parkways in California. Well, New York's better I'm reading one of those books where you have to like go cross-eyed to like look at the picture in the thing You know like the old school like you have to like pull it away slowly. Oh, there's a car in there I'm reading the pride of a Lion for the 45th time. Oh, for the love of God. Stan, are you reading anything these days? He's gone, he's gone.

I think this time he just left. Are you kidding? He's gone. Stan Van Frozen. So, David, what is the third, the bronze medalist on coldest firings you've ever fired? That's right, ladies.

I really had it at. Hold on, hold on, yes, that's right, Chris. Stan Van Frozen is what- I mean, that is it. That's the- Greg Spittin. That was a great call. It could've gone Stan Van Gandhi, but he went-

Stan Van Frozen. That was a great call. You could have gone Stan Ban, Gandhi, but he went. Stan Ban frozen. Stan Ban frozen. The bronze medalist of coldest firings in the history of David Sampson's firings, blank? Called Felipe Alou into my office, and he dropped his season tickets and his parking pass and his ID badge before I could say a word.

And I fired his tushy because he dropped the stuff and then walked out of my office because he knew that's what he was doing. Stan! And so I basically, that's the only person who I've ever fired his backside. Okay. Excellent.

Stan, how do you feel about David Samson? Love you, Stan. He's muted. He's muted now. You guys got it. All right, I think I'm going to make the call. Okay, look. There it is.

Now look, I like David. He's calling. I like David, but I've been on the other side of more firings than I have fired people. So I look at it from the side of the people being fired and it's not a pleasant experience. I remember I went to Daryl Morey's thing that Sloan conference in Boston one year and I was on this panel and a hockey GM Was on there talking about you know, what a rough day it was for him when he had to Fire his coach and the whole thing like this was some big sympathetic thing for him

This guy had been his friend and he had to fire him. And then it came to my turn. I said, well, I guarantee you it was a whole of a hell of a lot harder for the guy you fired than you. Like, I just don't have a lot of sympathy for you talking about how hard it was to fire the guy and the whole thing. Maybe it was, but the other guy is the one who lost his job. I also like David. Here's what I really love though. Two things that I really, really love when front office people fire somebody. Number one, to justify their decision.

And they go in a press conference and absolutely kill the guy on the way out, like with a bunch of BS, you know, and I hate that stuff. And the other one is they get on there and they say, you know, they fire the guy and then they say, Hey, you know, team hasn't played well, we're all accountable. Why? And what the hell do you mean we're all accountable? Who else lost their job?

Everybody else picking up a paycheck tomorrow. No, you're not all accountable. You threw it on one guy. You threw it on one guy. You threw it on one guy. So cut the crap with the, we're all accountable. We all have to take accountability. You didn't do it that way.

Yeah. Dan, two things for you. One, it's worse when they say, I wished his family the best. I love his family. I don't like that. I've never done that in a press conference or a press release.

But two, you say no paycheck, but there's a bunch of head coaches out there who make a lot of money not to coach. And so I agree with you if they're being fired as their contract is expiring, but often you have an opportunity to make money not to have the service of working with some of those owners and GMs.

Well, look, I understand. What people don't understand, Dan and I have talked about this before, I think what too many people don't understand, I can only talk about the NBA the way things work, but what they don't understand, like fans always want coaches fired. I get that.

And there's no sympathy. And I never thought I deserved any as a head coach because what you're saying is true. I always had money coming in and we make a lot of money anyway. But what people miss is there's a lot of people under you who are not making great money, who do not have long-term contracts. There's guys, I had in my organization in Detroit, I had guys making $65,000, $75,000 with families and things like that.

And in a regime change, they're out the door. So when people can take joy in a head coach being fired, what they don't understand is, yeah, but a lot of people just lost their jobs that need those jobs, just like you do need your job as a fan. And I just wish- It's true, but Stan,

Stan, there's another side to that, which is in a regime change, there's a whole bunch of people getting jobs who didn't have them. And so it's an opportunity for those people. I totally understand that there is a lot of shrapnel that happens when a coach or GM gets fired or when an owner changes, there's no doubt,

but there's a whole group of people who have an opportunity who otherwise wouldn't have. Yeah, there's no question. I mean, that's the business. I mean, and you know, I try to tell young people when they get into it, you know, like, look, you have to understand what the business is, and you have to understand the insecurity of it. I mean, that's the way it's going to be at every level. You might have a little more security the further down the food chain you are, but not a whole lot.

And so, look, I don't expect sympathy from anybody. Cody is getting fired, anything else. I do react negatively to the glee that a lot of fans take when somebody gets fired. Because I don't care how much money you got coming in. Mike Budenholzer gets fired in one year. He's got $40 million coming in. And you know what? It hurts.

I don't care. I've been through it enough. I can tell you, Mike Budenholzer and his staff, it hurts. I don't care how much money you make. But it does hurt slightly less. Tony, everyone listening to this is saying- It hurts slightly less when you can go and hang out in the Keys for a couple of years and fish and do your own thing.

It hurts slightly less. You know what? No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't. I'm sorry. I've been there four times. It doesn't. To the Keys.

You're better off. I get that. I get that. You're better off. But when somebody tells you, we don't want you anymore, you're not good enough, we're better off with somebody else, you can't tell me, I don't care who it is, there's nobody that that does not sting. I mean, yes, it's easier to move on, I give you that, but it still stings.

With that said, I have said about the Phoenix job, you know, and David's right, they're paying a lot of, they're paying Frank Vogel and Mike Budenholz are probably a combined about 20 million next year to not coach. I said that's the most attractive coaching job on the market. I mean, you know, you're going to sign five years, 50 million, and you're probably only going to coach one year, Matt Ishby is going to get rid of you. So, you know, if you're somebody especially who wants a short-term job for a whole hell of a lot of money, Phoenix is your destination in the NBA. Stan, I have a question for you because it might couch this segment a little bit better.

Have you, maybe even before you got into coaching, were you ever fired from a job where you weren't given millions of dollars in compensation? Well, when I got fired at the University of Wisconsin, I didn't get anywhere near millions of dollars in compensation. I got adjusted for inflation now. You got something. Well, I mean, okay, so now you're saying, Stan, you were old at the, you know, you're old. Oh, I'm saying.

And that happened a long time ago. I got you, Mike. Okay, a little subtle. He's about to trap you here on which hurt more and which hurt less. I'm just saying, I don't know if you have the data points to be fired without a huge compensation package. No, no, listen.

I'm saying it is definitely easier to move on because you don't then have the concerns about being able to support your family and everything else. It's definitely that part's out. That part is like the whole part for me. It's a huge concern actually. It's a massive concern. It's kind of like, how do I feed?

How do I eat? It's a big part. You think it's the whole part up to you until it happens. And let's not forget for these guys getting fired. It's not happening like most people getting fired where nobody knows about it. These are very public things, you know. It's out in the newspaper and there's going to be

all kinds of commentary. Why did Michael Malone get fired? Why did Taylor Jenkins get fired? People ripping apart, you know, their coaching, their character, everything else, yeah. I'm not, I've been there, so I can just speak from experience on that. I'm with you that it doesn't hurt as much

in terms of you can support your family, but that shit hurts, man. All right, so Stan- You know what would hurt my ego? Losing a house. Yeah, well, so I want to tether Stan to something here because I know how much this man cares. So when he's rummaging around in the shame

of having failed a bunch of people relying on him for their jobs, he's saying the money doesn't heal whatever guilt he feels when something like that happens. And I get that articulation. But I also understand how it is that anybody would arrive at and stand the shame you talk about being fired publicly. That's what the money's for. Like that's why they pay. They pay to Dom Draper lines that that is what they pay you for to no question. But it is

here. It is no less from inside. It's sort of humanizing for you to say, and yeah, it hurts because I'm hugely competitive. And do you know how much it sucks that I couldn't save the Pelicans or the Pistons? Yeah, no, there's no question. But you know, look, you're right. And that's what I'm saying. You know the, heck, I grew up around the business with a dad who coached. It's been my whole, you know the back. I grew up around the business with

a dad who coached. It's been my all. You know the business. And that is part of it. And that is one of the big reasons that coaches get compensated the way they do. I don't trust his internet Chris Cody. He keeps getting frozen. Cooking with gaffers. It's been a good segment. I know. Way to go, Dan. I agree.

He seems frozen right now. And you would understand my mistrust, surely. All of you would. I want to talk about the basketball from last night, because the Lakers and the Timberwolves both shot 20% from three. And now the Lakers story gets to continue, because it would have been bad for playoff basketball if the Timberwolves had won that one as well.

That wouldn't have been a lot of fun. And he's gone. Okay. That is excellent. It's just so good. Need to get to the back end of the doubleheader. It's so good. Isn't it funny how Oklahoma City's there?

Like we won 68 games and we have to play the Clippers or the Nuggets next? Like what the hell? First time watching them. Do they always win by 50? Folks listen up. They're here and they're hot. Get ready because Jimmy John's is turning up the heat. After years of perfecting the cold sandwich, toasted sandwiches are finally here.

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