The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - The Big Suey: Tangentially

Episode Date: March 29, 2024

The Big Suey kicks off with the crew honoring the life and legacy of Louis Gossett Jr., who passed away Friday, Tony reveals he has seen some of his movies tangentially, and Mike wants to discuss hockey and figure out where Amin's hockey allegiances lie. Plus, Nelson Cruz retiring with the Mariners sparks a conversation about one-day contracts, and the Panthers clinched a playoff spot despite losing last night. Then, Juju is in the studio for another episode of Wake & Take to take your calls and have some fun. Finally, Sarah Spain and Charlotte Wilder join Pablo Torre for some sharing and telling. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're listening to Giraffe King's Network. 29 years later, Cuervo is still going strong. Family owned from the start, same family, same land. Now's a good time to enjoy Cuervo. The tequila that invented tequila. Go to Cuervo.com to shop tequila or visit a store near you. Cuervo, now's a good time. Trademarks owned by Beclet, SAB the CV, copyright 2024, Proximo.

Jersey City, New Jersey, please drink responsibly. Welcome to the Big Sewy! Presented by DraftKings. Why are you listening to this show? The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan LeBattard podcast. I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize for that. In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging. I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries if they're just there.

That hasn't happened to you guys? I've done it. And now, here's the marching man to nowhere, fat face, and the habitual liar. We'll get to Mike Ryan's hockey takes here in a second, but I've got to interrupt the show with some sad news. One of the great actors, Louis Gossett Jr. has passed away. Cause of death is unknown, but he is a cancer survivor. He had prostate cancer about 15 years ago.

So he passed away at the age of 87. Is this one of those generational things? Yeah, it might be, it might be. I remember most from Officer and Gentlemen. You won an Oscar in that role. The first black actor to win in a supporting, supporting, best supporting actor Oscar. File, by the way, that movie still holds up.

Great movie, carries her out. My man Richard Gere carries her out at the end and we get, love lift us up where we belong. Great song. Man, that's your third song of the day. You're just gonna dominate the series. No one else here has seen officer and a gentleman Tangentially how

How do you tangentially see officer and a gentleman? Yeah, what like you've heard other people talk about it. I've heard other people I know other people that have seen what happens in it. There's an officer and a gentleman. He's one in the same We have what type of officer. He's an a naval officer of course as Cuz I was certainly hoping you thought he was like a highway patrolman He's seen it tangentially I have no other people who have seen it there you go and they've told me hey I've seen it so that way I've seen well in fact. Thank you Tangentially watching movie is now canon for this show. Thank you a more I guess recent

is now canon for this show. Thank you. A more, I guess, recent memory would be he was in The Watchmen, the excellent HBO miniseries that I believe you can catch on Max right now. The Watch. I mean, you were such a man that you just simply don't want to answer no to that question. You don't want to admit that you haven't seen it.

No, I've heard about Officer and the General. You'd rather say that you've tangentially. He's seen it tangentially. You don't get it. that you haven't seen it. So you'd rather say that you've seen it tangentially. He's seen it tangentially. You don't get it. He doesn't get it. The question was, to the back row, has anyone seen it? And your answer was, I've seen it tangentially. No was a perfectly acceptable answer.

It's an older movie. Not tangentially I've seen it. What about Roots? Has anyone seen Roots? Wait a second. Now you're changing the rules of space and time. It is a matter of fact that it's an older movie, not tangentially, not an older movie. No, no, no. It's an older movie that I've seen tangentially.

Yeah. Okay. I'm buying it. I'm allowing it. I like it. Roots? Have you seen Roots tangentially? A lot of people have seen Roots tangentially because they're familiar with some of the players and what goes on in it, but maybe they haven't sat down through it because generationally, you know, it wasn't airing on network television. It wasn't a network television event

for people of a certain age. Right, like at some point you have to go, I think I bought it on Amazon because I showed my kids Roots, which is a lot more like rough. I watched Roots in high school. I watched it when I was like 12. And I was like, oh, this is the greatest show ever.

And then I watched it with my kids and I was like, maybe not appropriate for kids. It's very educational, but they don't pull punches on a lot of that stuff. And so at the time, I think my kid was, my oldest was nine, I was like, wait, why do these white people hate black people? I'm like, well, let me sit down.

Let me explain something to you about the world, the way it was and the way it continues to be. But Louis Gossett Jr., again, amazing actor. Not just a movie actor, but also TV and theater. I mean, look, this is where about a month and some change after Carl Weathers. Black icons, black Hollywood icons, most certainly. Great gentlemen, right?

It's not just the great thespians, great actors, but also great ambassadors. And officers. Yeah, did you do The Punisher on Cynephobe? Not yet, not yet. Maybe, maybe soon. Well, he's got some bangers. He's also got certain Cynephobe-worthy films.

He was also on Boardwalk Empire. Yeah. Okay, so there you go. So, RIP, wow, RIP, my man, Lewis Gossett Jr. Man, he took some bad rolls. Yeah, no, look man, you gotta pay bills. Enemy mind. As Vanessa Carlton will attest to,

you gotta pay bills somehow, some way. You couldn't have been more wrong about that. No, tangentially I was right. Thank you. And Tecris. How did you celebrate the Florida Panthers clinching a playoff spot? Yeah, like.

Are the Panthers your hockey team? You don't really have one, do you? Or do you rep the New York teams? I'll be honest with you, I used to when I was in college, I was like, oh yeah, I'm a Rangers fan. I just liked the jersey. And so that was all that it was. Now I really don't have one.

But the coyotes. I don't really, they look not, I want to also get like two, I wouldn't fall too in love with the coyotes, depending on their stadium. They don't even have a building. Well, have you gone to a- Sit close to the ice when you see them, right?

I've been to a Coyotes game at the old arena. Where they're playing now is Arizona State's arena, which ironically is a lot closer to where I live. I imagine that's a cool experience, watching them in like a 2,000 seat venue. That building is not good. That building's not good. Like not good for professional sports.

It's a great college. Oh, it's getting terrible reviews from players around the league. But in terms of a fan, like where do you get to see a pro hockey game at a college campus? But again, once again, it's not like the other arena was so sold out,

couldn't get good seats. You could get great seats in Glendale. Yeah, they're a relocation candidate. Yeah, it just hasn't worked. And I know there's a very rabid hockey fan base in Arizona, but the reality is that economics does not support having them in state. All right, so you can be a Panthers guy.

Yeah, so I got the Panthers, I got the Black History Month jacket, which everywhere I go gets head turns and compliments. People love that jacket. It's a really cool jacket, I won't lie. I thank you, Mike, for bringing it to my attention, I thank my friends at the Panthers for helping me get it before when it was still kind of like,

this is a limited item. And then- I took off the fuzzy collar. Really, no, gotta keep the fuzzy collar. I don't got the hood spot. I have a question for you as a former front office person. Sure. And maybe you know the answer to this and maybe you don't.

So I saw that Nelson Cruz, baseball player, signed a one day contract to retire as a Seattle Mariner. He played for a billion teams. Now, did anyone when you were with Phoenix, did any of them sign one day contracts? And then also, is there a financial component to that? Like in any way? So, I'll answer the second question first.

Yes, if they actually sign him, meaning he's on the roster and gets the like, all right, one last time. So I wasn't there when this happened, but I wanna say Dan Marley got a one day contract with the Suns at the end of his career to kind of go out on a high note. I've never experienced it, I've never been around

for something like that, but like when you do the math, because the cap is not gonna be his full salary, whatever it is, minimum salary, it's going to be one, one hundred, you know, however, whatever the math is, in the NBA it's one one hundred and tenth of minimum salary, which is a day's worth of work. And that's what he'd be on the books for,

because they signed him to a non-guaranteed deal. So it's not like strictly ceremonial, like they actually would get a check to sign and then retire? I would say it's a nominal check. And that's why you don't see teams in the luxury tax, like, oh, let's add on another, because that matters, it multiplies. But for a regular team, sure, why not?

Wait, hold on a second. So if you were a great of a team, but they're under the cap, they're like, listen, we'd love for you to retire as part of this team, but we can't afford it this year. If you're a taxpaying team, absolutely. Because if I, so sometimes it is ceremonial, Billy. Sometimes it's just a press conference

and they hold up the jersey and everyone, and they never, they're not actually, but sometimes they do when they have them in the dugout for instance or on the bench and they get come in one last time and the announcer says now checking into the game Billy Gill and everyone goes crazy and you wave and there's one play and then they sub you back out like yeah that's a real contract and that has real money attached to it because no one gets to play for free Nelson Cruz probably be a Ranger don't get me wrong don't get me wrong I love Nelson Cruz one of my favorite items of all time and you love the Mariners clearly day one that but that is the interesting part about this it's not like hey does he get paid does he not get paid the interesting part is how did he choose that the Mariners are going to be the team that gets the Nelson Cruze?

I think if you ask most baseball fans, close your eyes and picture Nelson Cruz, I think more people are probably picturing him in a Rangers jersey. Okay. Did he play? He played eight games as a rookie. Well, I mean, I guess if you're from Milwaukee or I mean it was you might picture I'm gonna be his first team like that all my like my first heartless when I first became a Major Leaguer wouldn't that be The team he has the type I feel like for him also and they not to disrespect him. He had a great career He played a really long time However, is he a Hall of Famer? No, no however I look at the numbers though come

steroids well actually like multiple times I feel like well then no with him you kind of just who wants me to return them let's go there or do you do this Billy do you call us it you text everyone individually guys I'm retiring I've you know I I remember fondly my days with insert team blank. I'd love to have my last day with you guys. And then you see who comes back with the best offer, because it's not just the contract for a day, whatever, but it's also like they fly you in, red carpet,

you get fly your family in, you get a nice little buffet spread, can I see the menu? And you say, lobster over here for Seattle. I'm looking at Milwaukee. You start a bidding war amongst the teams? Like this is where I want to retire. Absolutely, you play all sorts of shots.

And then you figure it out like that. Cause why would you commit to something? Well, to close the loop, the Panthers clinched a playoff spot last night. How? They did so in a losing effort and a regulation loss as well. Panthers it looked like they had bounced back from what was their worst stretch of hockey this season getting a point at what is almost certain to be especially after last night's performance

in Colorado the President's Trophy winning New York Rangers side and then they won at Philadelphia on the back end of a back to back, a tough opponent, a playoff bound opponent in Philadelphia. So it looked like they had righted the ship. Then they played Boston who was leading in their division. They had games in hand, tough loss, gave up a late equalizer and a late go ahead goal.

Don't get any points from that one, but Boston ends up losing to the Tampa Bay Lightning the next day. So you have these games in hand. You win against the lowly New York Islanders who season, they're still battling for a playoff spot, but they've had some tough results lately, and they lose. It was a really surprising result. The Panthers came in pretty heavily favored in this game, and like I said, they've been

playing better hockey. I didn't even want to celebrate clinching a playoff spot. And I understand there was pretty much a formality at this point. Their form had suggested this was inevitable, as last night showed. I'd never been more disappointed after a playoff clinching performance. Isn't this a sign of like you made it when you don't even have to win a clincher? Well, we are an original 7 franchise at this point. Legacy brand. Blue Bloods. Blue Bloods. Jeremy, real quick, you've got under a minute.

You've developed the Amine system apparently. I have developed the Amine system. We were talking about the Dennis system earlier and this is the Amine system to fix college basketball. A, actually do jump balls. A. Makes sense. M, make it quarters, not halves.

I, international three point line. halves. Yeah, come on now. I, international three-point line. Yes. And we're already there. And we're already there. Already accomplished. I was right about the international three-point line. That's what the I stands for. And N, NBA shot clock.

Guys. We fixed it. We fixed common basketball. And then, like in a couple of years, I gotta do it backwards, right? The NEMA system But this is gonna fix something else apparently hey when we come back These MLB uniforms they're pretty good, or do they suck you don't want to miss our thrilling conclusion We're not coming back to shows over okay never my shows over. Bye

Don libertard you got to know I'm a big Colombo guy salute to that boy I don't think that is evidence salute to that boy. It suggests camouflage It suggests that juju has no idea what we're talking about And now it's just googling it. Stugots. I'm not Googling it. My grandmama stayed in the country. I watched The Braves. I watched Columbo. I watched Matt Lough.

I watched Andy Griffin. Absolutely you, sir. But you go to the pill in the box. Damn. They didn't take your ass to the pill in the box. Call me a liar. You tell him, Juju. Back to you, Stu.

This is the Don LeBattar Show with the Stu Guards. Welcome to another edition of Wake and Take. Yeah dig it. Brought to you by the good folks at DraftKings Network. Also by the kid himself and FingerRoll Entertainment. You feel me. Salute to all the callers. I got take, oh my God, I got takes.

I got questions, I got answers, but you gotta call and get it out of me, John John. But first, we interview my mommy. Yes, I'm calling looking for the best mommy in the world. best mommy in the world? Hey mama you are live right now on wake and take with the kid himself. How are you doing today? Oh my goodness, as usual I am wonderful every time I hear your voice. Oh good, oh good. Oh my goodness. I miss you so much! I miss you too mama. I love you. What in sports, what do you think about sports right now? If you have one sports take, what do you feel right now about the world, anywhere in sports?

I absolutely love what's going on with the WNBA. Yes ma'am, talk about it. Yes, I absolutely love what's going on. Who's your favorite player in the WNBA? Oh my goodness. Look, Kane 91. Oh, I'm Kane 91. One of them.

They're having fun. Right, all love them. Oh, I love them. They're having fun. All of them. Look, my mom can't decide on any one specific player. She likes all of them equally. I feel ya. That was your answer. Oh my goodness. I love the one that's not on the ladies team. Oh lord, what's the lady? Kim Mokie?

The ladies like, yeah! Oh lord, nobody, you like Caitlin Clark? Oh my god, I love her. Okay, okay well we gonna, that's the system. You have to be my number one slash two. Mm-hmm. Look and it's wonderful, but you say you like the WNBA and none of these precious women are in WNBA just yet.

We're gonna- Oh my God, that's my best comment. Oh, that's my, that's Caroline's, I'm so sorry. It's all good. I just called to tell you in front of the whole world, I love you and I really appreciate everything you've ever done for me, and I got your back until I'm not here anymore What's your say It's indeed in front of the world the world watch yeah, the whole world watching this we you know we're gonna get these numbers up

What does that not as my dad Lewis? That's my dad Lewis To that was that Tony I'm the Tony you that we got at home, you know Now he definitely a great friend as well We had a lot of good talks as well. Me and him and Tony, man, we be plotting a scheme in the world. Take over the world, you feel me? So yeah, man.

I just wanted to reach out to you, mama, right quick. Just to hit you up, man. I love you, mama. I'm gonna call you back in a little while. I love you too! Anything else you want to get off your chest and last messages? Yes! I really want to say this.

I've been wanting wanna say this. I've been wanting to say this for four years now. Oh Lord. Thank you Dan, thank you Dan, thank you Dan. Yes sir, thank you Dan, thank you so much man. I love you mama, call you back later. Love you too, okay, okay, bye. Next caller coming right up, who we got next up, Lewis?

Juju. What it do ski? Who am I talking to? Ski. This is Chris from Philadelphia. Salute to you, Juju. We love you. Hey, fly, it goes fly.

All the way to victory. You got to know what's going on, man. How you doing, brother? Good, man. I have a sleeper pick for the worst fans in the country. I'm listening. You ready for this? Yes sir.

This is going to come crazy coming from Philadelphia. Philadelphia 76ers fans. Other worst fans in the United States. Talk about it man. They are losers. They're entitled. They think they can win games. Sam Pinky is an embarrassment. I hope they lose every game going forward. That's messed up. Not every game.

What about when Joel comes back? You want him to lose them too? Only the big ones. Only the elimination games. Damn, man. Hey, man. Ain't nothing wrong with that, but if that's how you feel, man, you must be scoring. What happened?

What brought you to this conclusion, brother? Oh man, just living in this city. I love all the other fans in this city. It's just those fans. They think they're entitled to win. Yeah. It's crazy. Well, who do you got this year for the NBA championship?

Man, it's hard to see anyone other than Milwaukee or Denver winning, right? Oh man, get out of here with all of that, brother. Wrong answer. We're going to move on to the next call. Thank you for your time, brother. Thank you, Juju. We really love you, bro.

Appreciate you, bro. Next call, Ski. Right now, Ski. Juju, it's your brother Travis. How's it going? Hey, what it do, T-Trav? How you doing today, man? I am good.

Sun is shining. Beautiful day up in Marietta, Georgia. You doing all right? Hey, salute. You already know it. How you doing today, man? I am good. Sun is shining. Beautiful day up in Marietta, Georgia. You do. Hey, salute. You already know what's happening, man.

Salute to the north side in the building, man. Yes, sir, man. How is your day today, brother? We're good, man. We're good. Hanging out with my puppies. You know, got the YouTube stream going. I about missed the wake and take. I got busy, but I had to call.

I had to call, man. I'm glad you called me back. I appreciate it. Hey man, it's all love, brother. What's your take, bro? So, you know, I can't believe our boys Future and Drake are beefing, man. I don't know what you think about that,

but given where we're from down here in the A, I'm always Team Future but what you think? You're right, you already know what team I'm on. I don't even give a damn about that. You already know what's happening. We ride with Future no matter what. Salute to the six. You gotta do it. I guess that means we don't get what a time to be a live part too though. I don't know but I think it's, I think stay tuned because you never know how these rollouts go, you never know how these beats work and we, we gonna sell some records here or sell some records there so I think stay tuned probably, but if there is a world war and if there is a civil divide, I'm stepping my ass on the future side. You did. Yes sir, ass on the future side. You did.

Hey, yes sir, we on the right track. A civil divide. Sounds good, sounds good. What about you, Lou? What about you, Lou? Lou is on the phone with us as well. I arrive with Juju. Blindly into the fog of war with my boy Juju.

You feel me. Let's go. Hey man, thank you for your time, bro. You got anything else you wanna say, brother? That's it, man. I appreciate you so much. I appreciate all you, Juju, you're the best. Thank you very much. Thank you brother, salute.

All right, peace. We on the line with the next caller. Who we got? Yeah, this is Willie Green. What up Willie Green, where you calling from brother? Calling from Virginia. Hey, two up two down. What's happening man? You know, just chilling on my on a little break from work. Yeah.

And I saw the tweet and I said I got the call in. Hell yeah brother. Thank you for your time and your energy man. What's your tape bro? Let's see, I wasn't even prepared for the tape, but let me come up with one real quick. So on the beast that's going on right now, so Kendrick, Drake, and J Cole is still the big three. You think they're still the big three right now? Still the big three. Even ten years later, they're still the big three. Still the big three. You think they're still the big three right now? Still the big three. Even ten years later, they're still the big three. Still the big three. Kendrick got to drop more often. Right.

For him to be in the conversation like that. Even Jim Cole kind of could drop some more. You feel me? You can't say Drake ain't one of the hottest right now. Just based off volume. Yeah, you right. You right. You're right. I mean, I think that the beef was,

we a little late to this party, you know what I mean? I feel like this would have been way better in 2018, 19. I feel like you let these folks get away with murder for all these years and now you wanna pop up and say something, now you wanna response. I don't know, but I don't think it's necessarily the breaking news that everybody else think it is. I feel like it's finally about time. You feel me? What about you, man?

You think it's still breaking news, top of the pops? Huh? Especially Bass Pop's last album. Now, I'm a Kendrick fan. Like I said, he's in my top three. But I mean, his last album won't really, you know. You feel me? Talk about it. It's a stealing people's playlist right now. It was a great, you know, it was a good album. Yeah, but it doesn't really have a whole lot of playback to it. You feel me? I like the one with him and Kodak.

Oh, for sure. Kodak, he may have been one of the best parts of the album. Right, right. Literally. Well yeah, bro, I like that take though. You feel me? Thank you for your time and your energy, man. You got anything you wanna say on the way out, bro? You the goat.

Ah, hell nah. Hell nah, you the goat, brother. Hey, we love you, dude. Appreciate you, man. I really do appreciate that, dog. It means a lot to me. Next caller, who we got? This is David.

Hey, what it do David? Where you calling from? We calling you back, but where you calling from? Caller from Punta Gorda, Florida. Hey, Punta Gorda, I ain't even never heard of that. Punta. What is that? What, what, what are you?

It's pronounced Punta Gorda actually. I ain't never heard of Punta Gorda, Pun Gorda who do I never heard of now one of them? So put me on what well on the map is this brother. I'm from Atlanta, Georgia That's around Fort Myers, brother. Okay, cool. I heard that's what Deon them from it and Greg Cody through the baseball out there Yeah, there's on the West Side West Side you dig in the building. What's your tape brother? I Just wanted to call and thank you guys for putting on an awesome show every single day. Yes, sir.

I got a wife that's been in the hospital learning out a lot, and I actually messaged the show on Twitter a while back, and somebody responded back, and I've just been giving you guys updates about her condition and stuff like that, so keep doing what you guys are doing, she's really you know not doing well health-wise but she's in a good spirit because she listens to the show every day with me.

Yes sir, oh my goodness. Thank you so much for reaching out brother and we definitely got your wife in our prayers man. If you want to like let us know, can we know her name? Is that cool? Oh absolutely. Her name is Layla and if you go back in your messages on on Twitter or X You'll be talking to David David Woodward Yes, I mean and I think I'll pictures of her and stuff like that So, you know if you ever want to check it out, I'll keep you guys updated for sure But you know, it's just I know what Dan went through and stuff like that last year or this year with his brother. So You know, it's been tough been tough for both of us but you guys your laughs and

everything you do and personally you do I love you so much man I haven't been able to tell you but I'm a big fan brother. Appreciate it man I'm definitely back at you brother and I'm definitely keeping Layla in our prayers but like this means so much more than you can even know right now like for you to even share that with us let alone reach out with these positive words man 100% back love to you brother. Oh my goodness I appreciate you so much brother. Thank you guys so much and I'll let you get back to taking more calls.

You guys have a great one. Yes sir you too and tell our sister we love her. We will definitely sir thank you. Yes sir. Dang man salute to that family man. Yeah bro. It just always keep it reminds you to keep everything in perspective man and just stay blessed and this is let's all keep that family in our prayers if we can man. Don LeBattard. Hey Dave. Stugats. What up? This is the Don LeBattard show with the Stugats. What up? This is the Dunlavatar Show with the Stugats. We should say upfront that it's Charlotte's birthday because I was going to pretend like

we're running this later in the week until it's not acknowledged the present tense, but happy birthday, Charlotte. Thank you so much, Pablo. What better way to spend it? Charlotte sat down and was immediately complaining about the ways in which her body is betraying her. Oh my god. Last night, my back just like goes into spasm and I was lying on the floor in a heating pad and then I woke up this morning and was like, oh, yeah, no, like I think it's a little better.

And then I went to go for a walk and it was just like shooting pain and I was like, you know what? Welcome to 35. welcome to 35 welcome to 35 I was I was in Amsterdam over the weekend oh my god I'm back because I love you guys and and speaking of back I carried with me two I don't know what they're called they're gonna sound disgusting when I say it but like two massage balls. Oh Like a lacrosse ball. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, just so I could plant them into My seat and lean against it quietly massaging myself for seven hours and 15 minutes because that's kind of all I am Can I tell you that there is a product that you're gonna be real fired up to learn exists and it is the equivalent of Actually, I think it's three lacrosse balls

melded together. I believe it's called a snake, but I haven't used it in a little while. But I bought it a couple of years ago because I have major back issues. And it's the equivalent of having multiple lacrosse balls for either that lumbar support, or you can use it against a wall,

or you can use it to like foam roll when you don't want to bring a full roller with you traveling. You just described almost every Instagram ad that I get served now. Would you like more balls to put against your body? Yes. Can't we be? Actually, yes.

Can we be sponsored by a? vaguely, well not even vaguely just straight-up sexual sounding device that uh You stick into yourself to make yourself feel wow that much younger when you put it that way I don't think you stick it in anywhere Pablo. It's not a thing you stick into yourself I believe that's what you just said and that's not What you know like pressing into this yeah, oh oh my knots my knots I would say against I would say against yourself. It's a good distinction Hmm what I would recommend to literally anyone is if you have any back pain to immediately Try to figure out if you can get to the root cause because I had so many other

Injuries that when I started to have back stuff I kind of just thought it would eventually go away. At the time I was still playing like rec league, flag football, softball, beach volleyball, dodgeball, like all the things. And when my back started hurting a lot, I was like, it's just probably another thing I tweaked, I'll just wait for it to eventually get better.

And that was not the right choice. So whatever's going on, try to figure out, because usually back pain is actually a deferral of pain from some other part of your kinetic chain that's not properly working and your spine is basically like a bunch of jelly donuts on top of each other. And there's like jelly in the middle that keeps that like allows your spine to like go up and down and like jump. And when all the jelly gets squeezed out, then you basically just have your spine smacking against itself, just a bunch of buns, no jelly. So the longer you go without treating it and the more jelly that oozes out the harder it is to

fix without things like surgery. So go to the doctor or 11-D like me until you find one that fixes it. So just to, you are the person telling me that my vocabulary seems too sexual. What was sexual about that? Why whenever the three of us do a show, it becomes the horniest episode. Back. Literally every word you said. Sorry. It's because Pablo's surrounded by women and it's a thing he's thought about for years but never been bold enough to actually try these odds and dynamics. It's very hard for him to step away from the inner recesses of his subconscious. I just want to thank both of you because I came in here like being like, yeah, my back

hurts but I'm fine, feeling really good. Now I'm like, oh, my back is broken. All the jelly's gone. I have no jelly left. Yeah. Not gonna say it. ["Sweet Home Alone"] So when we were talking about what topics to do on the show today, I sent a text that is the best encapsulation for how I want to start today's show with Sarah Spain and Charlotte Wilder. Hello guys. And it's the text that reads, I'm gonna do alpha douche. So can we play alpha douche? You do not have to accept her rejection.

I'm a professional dating coach and I teach guys how to understand the female mind. Now, if you're one of the people that haven't applied anything in my course or my videos or anything like that, this video is not for you. This is an advanced technique. This is for the people that have't applied anything in my course or my videos or anything like that, this video is not for you. This is an advanced technique. This is for the people that have the course,

have my videos, are applying it, seeing results, and eventually I'm gonna put this in the course. I just don't have the time right now, so I'm releasing it now. You don't have to accept her rejection. Now, here's an example. I was talking to a girl and she said, oh, you know, I'm not really interested.

And I, instead of just going, okay, and then just turning away, I did this. Why would you not be interested in me? I'm the best, absolutely the best. And she's like, oh, how? I'm like, well, you'd have to come over in my house to find out. And you'd also have to be okay with kink

and you'd also have to be okay with my mastery of the ropes and the fact that I have multiple women. Actually, maybe, maybe not. Maybe you wouldn't be the best for me. And now I did turn around at the end, but I could have left that part out and still got her to start bantering back and forth, and she did.

She started going back and forth with me and I started building attraction in that because now I had sidestepped her fucking rejection. Granted, keep in mind, I didn't force it. I didn't say, no, no, no, you're gonna, I just played into her little fucking game. I knew she was playing with me a little bit or just kind of disengaging. And I gave her a little bit of fun.

You want to know what I did with her later? No. Yeah, absolutely. Don't want to know. I got it later. I should say that I don't know if the song at the end of that video was a song that he like edited in, or if that was just the sound of a car that had pulled up next to him playing that song. because he is sitting in his car. And it's a very popular TikTok

now and it's basically about how you don't have to accept rejection from women. And before I get into how I feel about this, just how do you guys feel about this? So my first reaction, Pablo, was that everybody knows guys like this. Everybody knows a guy who's like a little squirrely and weird and like all the hair on their, their beard and their head is like all the same and it's like sort of reddish blonde and it's like, and you're like, what's going on? And that guy has two choices He can either be like the goofy fun friend who gets out of his own way Or he can become the worst person you've ever met and this guy clearly chose The latter but I'm I can't even think of anyone. I know who's like that, but I know that guy

Yeah, whether or not you know someone who claims to have a mastery of ropes, I feel like you guys have encountered people in that guy's coaching tree, either a predecessor or a descendant. And that's the kind of type, Sarah, that I wanted to like almost ethnographically study with you guys, because I am unfortunately fascinated by how one becomes that guy, as Charlotte had described it. I mean, I think what Charlotte nailed is what I felt watching it, which is first like unimaginable levels of cringe and like deep seated memory of being engaged

with or attempted to be engaged with by people like this and how awful it is and how if they just got out of their own way, found a way to be confident in whatever it is about them that makes them unique, even if it's their very dorkiness and quirkiness, if it's their mastery of ropes and kink, you can find your person that's gonna love that. What they are always doing instead is trying to figure out how,

if they just better understood the female mind and tricked women into liking them, they could get the women they want. Instead of saying, let me look for a woman that wants me and then just be myself confidently and see how attractive that is. Like, it's so easy to like understand but hard to explain to people

who aren't naturally confident that all you need to be, all you need to be to get women is confident. That's it. In whatever, like look at the guys. You're like, how did he, how did he do that? How did he pull that off? You're like, I guarantee you that guy walks into anywhere

just authentically and genuinely themselves and whatever weird and unusual ways that might be, even without being the hottest guy and people are just drawn to that confidence. So this pitch that Sarah is giving, all men on how to attract and even just be a person who can have conversations with women, which is confidence. Win friends and influence people. Yes. Yes.

Exactly. That confidence being the key. What's very funny to me about this type of person, which I should say has an occupation now, pickup artist. This is a pickup artist. There's a whole genre that is now decades old about pickup artistry. And what they sell instead is this complexity that reminds me almost of how

an NFL defensive coordinator might talk. And I want to show you guys, I don't know if you know, do you guys know who Mystery is? No. Yes. Like when you said Pickup Artist, it again unlocked this part of my brain that sadly watched multiple episodes of the Pickup Artist starring Mystery, whose goal was not to bring out people's natural and awesome uniqueness in a way that would make them confident but rather to completely change them in every way until they could trick people into thinking they were something else. So Charlotte said no. Sarah obviously is envisioning mystery

right now in her brain and so let's show Charlotte mystery. So in the first phase A1 we open. In the second phase we DHV to get IOIs. In the first phase, A1, we open. In the second phase, we DHV to get IOIs. In the third phase, we get her to DHV so we can give her IOIs, and that's attraction. If you go straight into comfort without doing that, you will just go nowhere. There's no pickup involved. You're forgetting the plot line.

So banter is something that some people think that, wow, I was in set for 10 minutes and I was shooting the shit with her and everything was going well, but it didn't lead anywhere. So I'll say, well, did you qualify her? Was she even attracted? Did you upload DHVs into her head?

Does she know that you have had girls in your life in the past? Has she seen you with girls? Does she know that you're the leader of men? That you're preselected? Does she know anything about you? If the answer is no, then you went straight into comfort and you got stuck in there. That is mystery.

Or as I like to refer to him now, having just watched the video, the Dan Orlovsky of incels. Just like doing a telestrator on like, DHV, so DHV by the way is demonstrate higher value or a demonstration of higher value. IOI is an indicator of interest. A set is a conversation.

And it goes on, right? Qualify. You want to qual... These are words that I came to learn in another text message that I sent you guys that was immediately embarrassing. I explained it. I read the book by Neil Strauss called The Game and The Game is not the manual that Mystery and Alpha Dom slash Douche are selling but it is a book about them essentially. And so The

Game, it taught me these phrases in a way that made me genuinely interested in whether these guys have figured out literally anything, or whether this language they've developed is entirely something that is a scam. And when you're talking about DHVing and IOIing and Kino escalating and all of that stuff, what is just important for everybody to know here is that this stuff has become extraordinarily popular. That is so depressing. I have a theory. I have a theory that the more people use acronyms, the more they rely on acronyms or on vague sentences that don't actually say anything

but signal that they know what they're talking about and you just haven't learned it yet the more full of shit they are. Yeah I agree with you and I also think that in this case when you're trying to commodify something that is sort of inexplicable which is like chemistry, pheromones, you know, interacting with other humans, you have to give it special names. Like what it actually reminds me of, and I know that I will be insulting plenty of people

out there and I'm very sorry in advance, but one of my friends got really into CrossFit and then wanted to become a personal trainer and offered my husband and I some free sessions so that he could say he had clients on his website. And some of the exercises we were doing were things that have existed forever and that I did in college division one track, but they gave them new names so that they could be CrossFit exercises. Like one was like a pulse thruster or something and it was just a body weight squat. You know, it was like that's, I don't think it was something.

I like how all of these exercises get rebranded as American Gladiator like code names. Yeah. Pulse thruster. I mean, that's the point is like we need our own language approved to you and expertise that will allow us to charge you for this thing that already exists. I think you're exactly right.

I also think the, you know, the obvious part of this is that the necklace. Well, the necklace. He's wearing a sun necklace. Sorry. The one thing I liked about mystery was his necklace. Necklace was a little cool. So that's called peacocking. Yeah, I'm kidding. Charlotte, that's called peacocking. That is a move.

It reminds me of something I got on vacation, like in Wyoming in fourth grade. By the way though, I get the system, the system, the systematization of this, the idea that yes, these are obviously like dorks and nerds who are yearning for some way to get anything resembling confidence. There is a fundamental, I will even say relatability on top of sadness to the idea of like, I don't know what to do. Can someone help me? And then someone filling that vacuum with here is a here is a literal book of things to do. I get where it starts. But what it what it does and this is like both obvious and also I think the key to so much of the internet now is that you become convicted in terms of why your approach should work. And it turns the person you're trying to win over into somebody who is definitionally two-dimensional. Like one of the, I wonder if you guys have even encountered this in the wild, right?

So like one of the things that PUA's as they are called, what they stress is a neg. Sarah, how would you explain a neg for people who aren't familiar with the vocabulary here? So, negging is actually this thing that I've seen in the wild and occasionally it works on some people, which is kind of wild and unfortunate because I'd like to say mystery is completely full of sh**, but this kind of like has some vibes that are useful. This is why this is interesting. This whole conversation is that there's some stuff in here that is in fact worthwhile. Right.

And with nagging, what I think the end result is that it infers some sort of confidence that someone has that might not actually be there because only the most confident among us would be willing to say something mean to a beautiful woman instead of just being a pushover who's completely adoring. Right? would be willing to say something mean to a beautiful woman instead of just being a push over who's completely adoring, right? So they would say something like, hey, Charlotte, that's interesting t-shirt. I think my mom has it, but you're still somehow still like pulling it off, right? So it's like kind of mean, like, oh, I don't really want to be wearing what your mom wears, but I look good. It's this weird sort of like, I'm kind of negating you, negging. I'm finding something negative to say about you,

but it's not full on like, hey, you look like. So what's interesting to me about this is I feel like these guys are taking little kernels of normal things and just putting them on steroids and growing them into like the biggest ears of corn that nobody wants. Like teasing someone is a great way to build a connection with them. Like it's charisma, it's actually called flirting.

Where you're like, oh my God, like did my mom give you that shirt? And like, you know, and so, but these guys are taking it, calling it something new, making it seem like the man is more in control and he's doing it to someone instead of it being a banter back and forth that the woman is also having agency in. Yes, so that power dynamic, the control is like the underlying truth of this,

which is that they're typically, when it comes to a pathetic feeling guy and a woman he's interested in, a power imbalance in his head, right? Like, how can I possibly be enough for this person such that they are attracted to me? And so people are using negs like and a basic neg Is also like you got something right here and they're like pointing to their nose and they make the woman think that there's like a booger In her nose, so immediately she's like insecure about that, right? So that's Charlotte is a guest at the psychological That this guy's being running. Yeah, I've been. And then look, I just looked up like sample necks and it's like, hey, do you know if there's a zoo

in Central Park? I get the feeling you spent a lot of time at the zoo. What? That's just a sample that I looked up. Why? I would love to spend time at the zoo. I get the feeling you spent a lot of time in the library. Okay, thank you.

Yeah, I'm brilliant. This is not working so far what I do next all right when surrounded by HB's the top babes You know open the set Keno escalate and then some of the wingman. All right Cortez Wait, wait, are you did you say keto escalate Keno escalate Does that mean like kinetic chain? I believe likeescalate. The f*** does that mean? Like kinetic chain, I believe. Like, this is, why am I explaining this? Yeah, why do you know all this, Pablo?

You are supposed to touch somebody in such a way that creates a physical rapport. Also just a part of flirting if it's going well. Also my worst nightmare. Like I remember going on dates where there would be an attempt to immediately put a hand on top of my hand on the table or otherwise. And I would just move away and then I would eventually have to say, just so you know, like I'm not really comfortable touching people right when I get to know them. Like I just want to get to know someone more because I like, I want to, I want to say that like living in LA, especially in the early

2000s. Oh man the number of of guys I met that were running this playbook and it was it was very hard to Describe because I couldn't just say they're like reading the pickup artists But it was a feeling I had that they had a checklist of what to do and if it didn't work It was the woman's problem for wanting a bad guy or not liking a nice person or not respecting that they're a good catch. But none of it was organic

or felt like just a confident guy hanging out. It was always like the same exact thing, like nagging shows of like value, like literally talking about their money or saying, I wanna take you to go shopping for clothes. Yeah they're an AMOG. They're an alpha male of the group. Right talking about their alphaness. They're not an AFC an average frustrated chump. Oh my god you know too many of these. They better be written down in front of you. They are definitely not

memorized by me. Honestly Pablo do you you wanna know the female version of this? It literally was like, try not to be too confident, use baby talk, especially in your 20s. Men are intimidated by women who are like partners and equals, so they want to date someone that they feel more manly around. So it's like, I'm so stupid. Can you help me with this? Like you have like, I'm so stupid. Can you help me with this?

Like, you have to. I'm not lying. I had to in my 20s, like, just start acting like a dumbass who needed help with s*** on my first dates, just to give them, like, a second of thinking that they might be in charge ever. And once they were interested, then I could go back to my normal self. But I literally had to- It's a hard pivot, Sarah. Oh my God, you guys, the amount of integrity I lost

in my, like pride in myself when I just gave up and I started being like, no, I don't know. I'm like, what? Just started acting like a dumb because otherwise I didn't get any dates. And it worked. It worked every time. I went on a date, my early twenties. I got there. It was like an internet date and I was immediately like, I cannot be here.

He was not like this guy. Basically he was like very quiet. I'm sure he was nice, but you know, when you just show up and you see someone and you're not even like, even like not even what he looked like the vibe I was just like I can't sit here. We like order beers and sitting there just boring feel like I like my skull is you know, dropping through my body. And I was like I have to I'll be right back and I went outside and I called my roommate at the time my best friend, my Hillary, who we talked about it before, just going to bring

her up every time the three of us are together and I, Hillary, who we talked about on here before, just gonna bring her up every time the three of us are together. And I was like, I cannot be here. And she was like, oh, I'm sorry. She's like, oh, also our dishwasher broke. And I was like, say no more. And I went back inside and I was like, I'm so sorry. I have to go.

And he was like, oh, is everything okay? I was like, you know, my dishwasher broke and there are just suds everywhere Oh and then I left good one and I think about him and I feel a little bad because you radicalized him And now he's running exactly. Yeah, he's running. This is the Alfa douche guy. Wait that dude has a sun necklace and is wearing giant goggles. Oh My god, and it's my fault be Keno escalating more right now. So,