The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - The Big Suey: The League of Leagues (feat. Dave Dameshek)

Episode Date: August 22, 2025

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Welcome to the big suey, presented by Draft Kings. Why are you listening to this show? The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan Lebitard podcast. I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize for that. In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging. I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys? I've done it.

And now, here's the marching man to nowhere, fat face, and the habit. Pitch you a liar. Today's episode is presented by Draft Kings. Draft Kings, the crown is yours. We got football last night. We had a couple preseason games. We got a bunch of football tomorrow. Dolphins, home preseason game.

First and only home preseason game. Oh, my God, you're out there. When you were playing Hawk, when you were playing the preseason, did you ever look up and stands like, man, these suckers, they love football so much? Not a single time. Why are you here? It's the fourth, it's the third preseason game. Not one iota of a second did I ever look up and be like, man,

these are real life ball lovers up there. No, never. I was too focused on like trying not to be sent home to live with my mom. Preseason was always, I never had like the preseason where like, oh, this doesn't matter. It was the extra. Like you were in sweats and like a shirt. Do you never had those pre seasons? No, man.

I always like, even the moments where. where it was like, y'all, you're a veteran. I had to act like I didn't care, like I didn't know the lane for me to get cut and be sent home. So it was always a very important game. It was always 18 game seasons for your boy. It was every one of them.

So dolphins tomorrow, dolphins are host to the Jaguars, but we got a lot of games, all right. And this season, new, Metal Arc Media, Football America. And, of course, our pal is Dave Damashek. You got a new episode of Football America today. and then one season starts.

We're doing Mondays, and we're doing Fridays. We'll recap in the week of games. We're setting you up for the week of games. Dave, how you doing? Good to see you. I'm doing well. I got a belly full of Thai food and I'm ready to talk football. Let's jump into it, shall we?

I heard you guys talking about James Winston. Fun anecdote. A few years back at NFL honors on the red carpet, I used to give inconvenient gifts to guys as they would walk into honors to have to carry around a, you know, a 36-pack, a double-roll toilet paper and giant balloons and a cello and a chandelier and everything else. I once gave James a goldfish and a bowl and he loved it and he took it home. I'd love to get an update on how that goldfish is doing.

Just taking care of the goldfish in the bowl for the rest of the night? I can almost guarantee that that goldfish didn't make it out that weekend. You know, I've had a beta fish for like a year and a half. Really? Betafishes don't normally last that long. Me and my wife, like, we're expected it to go anytime now. Yeah. Yeah, but we're still doing it. Look at us. Good first fish for a little kid. Yeah, yeah.

That's a good job out of you there. Dave, can you remember a scenario like this with James Winston, number one overall pick? I mean, by all accounts, he was a bust. And yet it's still so popular everywhere he goes. I was trying to think if there's any comparison to it, and I really can't come up with one. I mean, here's a bad answer for you. But Todd Blackledge is now decades and decades later still broadcasting big-time football games. He was a gigantic bust for the chiefs in the draft that, of course, included Dan Marino, among others.

How you feeling about your Steelers? Last night, obviously, it beat the Panthers, who cares? And we haven't seen Aaron Rogers yet. How you feelin? Listen, you know, we've been over it. Preseason football is the OGAI. I mean, it's just all fake nonsense. None of it matters once the real thing gets going here.

I think the defense is going to dominate. I really do think that they're built to do. do that. I think it all comes down to the offensive line. Aaron Rogers is a first ballot Hall of Famer, obviously, but he's 41 also. And so he is not the Tom Brady and Peyton Manning and Drew Breeze have set a weird level of expectation for guys that depend upon athleticism. And Aaron Rogers is one of those guys. And his ability to move the way he did in his prime no longer exists. So if you're anticipating Aaron Rogers to be the positive. difference maker that gets the Steelers over the hump. I think you're being overly optimistic.

Has anything, yes, it's preseason football, of course, but has anything stood out to you as a bit of a surprise these first few weeks? I really do try to turn away because it is a month-long lie for your eyes what you see. What I do anticipate, though, is that the bears are going to be, you know, spoiler alert, like you mentioned, we have Jeff Schwartz on Football America today. We're going to seed both conferences one through seven. And I did not have the bears. That's the one thing I'll say. I don't have the bears in the mix. And I'm already sort of devil's damage checking that decision. I don't know if maybe I should have put Caleb in there. I am, I really do love the robbing Peter to pay Paul a fact of taking Ben Johnson away from the Lions and putting him on a division foe. I do think

that that could actually tilt that whole division. Hawk, did you care for Caleb Williams' performance in his debut last week? I think he's going to be really good. I think he looked good, man. I think the way he was making decisions, he seemed decisive. You can tell he was going through a process. Like, when I, like, judge a coach, I look at the players and I say, okay, can I find the thing that they're harping on? And when you watch that offense in those first couple of drives, like, he's making big throws down the middle. But watch the O line.

Watch how they, like, after the play is thrown, they're chasing the ball going to get set. There's a tempo to him. The receivers. The quarterback seems like he's in control. He doesn't seem like he's guessing. He's saying, okay, I'm making this decision. I'm making this play. on to the next. That comes from coaching. So yeah, I absolutely loved what I saw. He still had a couple of moments.

I remember, I think, on the, like, you know, off script through to a running back where he almost got him murdered on the field. But if he can continue to eliminate those, I saw a track where there was progress from what we saw a year ago, which means to me, the lions are going to have trouble without Ben Johnson early on. And how they kind of respond to that will determine, you know, what their ceiling looks like. I mean, impractically, too, by the way, fellas, you know, 40% of their offensive line is gone. That's bad for a team that is predicated on beating the crap out of teams. I mean, that's not a small matter to lose both coordinators. Really, the analog to me is to use a fancy word is the Philadelphia Eagles, who everybody is trying to mimic. If you don't have the superhero quarterback, you try and offset that, you know, by physical ball and all that.

And that's what the Lions have done and what that's what the Eagles have done in two. Super Bowls out of the last three. The Lions are a year or two behind where the Eagles are. Remember what happened to them in between those two Super Bowl runs, which was they lost both of their coordinators. And it wasn't like in week one, they immediately fell off a cliff. It was a gentle slide over the course of four months. I think that's what's going to happen to the Lions.

Dave, what do you make of Indianapolis right now? Anthony Richardson, I mean, he's got to be done in Indianapolis, right? I guess he's done. But, you know, you're talking about all these busts who then re-emermer. merge is halfway decent. And I guess that list starts with Jim Plunkett and you have Alex Smith this millennium. And so I don't think necessarily what is Anthony Richardson at this point? I'm going to guess 23 years old. I don't think you need to throw dirt on him just yet. I like the Colts though. I know that that's crazy. But I think Lou Anirumo didn't get enough buzz in Sinci because

it's not like it was a dominant defense on the other side for Joe Burrow and company to lean on. But it was good and it was relevant enough that they went to that one Super Bowl. It just about got to a second one, both going through Arrowhead. Now he goes over to Indy and I just invoked the Eagles. Vic Fangio's effect on the Eagles defense a year ago, I wouldn't be stunned if the Colts are sort of a poor man's version of that with Anirumo now taking over the defense. Plus Jonathan Taylor, they can beat you up a little bit running the ball in a relatively soft AFC South.

I like the Colts. Okay, I'm going to take a local spin here. right. I'm going to be very, I'm going to selfishly ask you about the dolphins, Dave. The dolphins, to me, I don't think there's a middle ground. I could see, you know what, maybe there could be like an 11-win team. Things go right. Offense gets back on track, big-time pass rush, or big-time cannon for hot mess team, like four wins. I don't think there's a middle ground there. What do you make of that? I think that there are teams every year that sort of fit that description. And yes, where it seems where McDaniel is in this experience

that the spiral effect could take over there. I completely agree. We talked about it, Zaz, previously. You know, the idea that the dolphins have no shot this year requires that you have amnesia from what happened two years ago. Last year, kind of with the whole, you know, and the fencing all again and Tyree Kill and Jalen Watt, all the injuries on the defense. once again, I think you just skip past what happened last year and instead focus on two years ago. The critical game in the McDaniel era, I don't want to get hyperbolic, but the critical game was that Monday night game against the Tennessee Titans. If they would have just held on in that game, they win the east that year, then they don't have to go to Arrowhead where it was minus 200 degrees

that night. And so they had no shot when they took the field for that one. Things feel very different. If they beat the Steelers, they probably host Pittsburgh in the wild card round with the division crown. They probably beat Pittsburgh in that one. And then we regard Mike McDaniel and two and all the rest of it very differently than we do right now. Of course, the reality is the reality. Hey, is Chris in there? I wanted to give him a shout out. I'm here.

Great idea. Don't do that. Or was it Billy. I forget who it was. Was talking about making trades and fantasy. Oh, Billy. I think here. I was in a league a couple.

a couple of years ago. I thought it was me. It was the league of leagues. And you could, it was a fantasy league. It was NFL. It was major league baseball and it was NBA. I'm going to throw it out here right now. Let's do a whole, let's do a whole network one of these.

And you can trade. And in fact, to inspire it, you guys in Miami, I'm, you know, I'm a Pittsburgh fan. I'm in L.A. But what if you had a general manager, not just for your one team in the city, but for all the teams in the city so that we could really open things up. Wouldn't it be nice if I could float the idea of maybe Paul Skeens to you guys? What's the city of Miami willing to give back to the city of Pittsburgh in exchange for the greatest asset in Major League Baseball right now? Okay, hold on a second, all right? Because there was a lot that you just threw out there.

You threw a lot. Hold on a second. Let's go back to the beginning there. You were in a league where it's multiple leagues that are in the league? Multiple sports. Multiple sports that are in in the league? Yes. League of leagues. And, and, yeah, it was, it was dynamite stuff. And the best part was the draft because you're kind of like, do I go Kevin Durant here? Or do I go, you know, showy a tonny?

And those sorts of debates. Or Jamar Chase. Yeah, that kind of stuff is, you know, that's the best stuff. And traded with this idea. Like a year ago, I had this idea of like trading teams. and cities and trading players like, all right, Kansas City, we'll send you Sandy Alcantara and whatever other players we have for the baseball team, but you send us back Patrick Mahomes.

Who's the GM? Inner City trades is what I called. Who's the GM? The South Florida would be Bill Zito for all the teams. We're not letting Riley ruin this one, this one, right? It's got to be Bill Zito. Not Chris Greer? No.

Well, I'm taking, I assume Hawk gets all of the state of Ohio. Is that right? I'm sorry, Hawk. I'm going to claim Western Pennsylvania. I know you would like. Yeah, you can have it. It's okay. Even though I am also from Western Pennsylvania.

I know, I know. But you wore that nice alouettes uniform, but more importantly, you wore both orange hats. You're right. As long as we established that I'm also from Western Pennsylvania along with you, went to the same high school as Jack Ham, who, I know you know who Jack Ham is. I don't know if everyone here knows who Jack Ham is. Is that John's brother? Yeah.

Yeah. People don't know who 59 is the hammer? They don't know who's a great. They don't know, Dave. One of the great OLBs in football history. You know what? They're not real ball-knowers like you, Dave. And speaking of John Hamm, weren't you in the John Ham Fantasy League

where you guys kicked the guy out on draft? I still am, and the draft is upcoming quickly. That's my favorite story. Everybody's on pins and needles right now. My favorite draft rule that I've ever heard is that when you guys tell that story, like no one knows who's going to be kicked out the day of the draft. Do you guys? We did it a couple weeks ago with Dave.

Oh, dang. Sorry, I don't have so much fun when your head's on the hawk. It's my head's on the chopping block, and I can assure you that it is not fun. It's not fun. I hope you. Sounds scary. In that seat. I once saw Jack Hamm, my sister, Amy and I saw Jack Ham at a Penguins game, and we said,

ooh, we got to go get his autograph. We were little kids, and we went over to him and said, hey, big fan, Mr. Hamm, can we get your autograph? And he said, sure thing. And they went like, and he went like, sorry, your pen doesn't work. And that was my Jack Hamm experience. that was my jack ham did he like try to shake the pen a little bit he's like it's not working you got you got to put the tip on your tongue maybe you try and get the ink going like that right free go no move i should have done that hey uh hey there he is that was 59 for the viewer hey uh nice eyes the rivalries the bands the upsets college football is back think you know the game put it to the test with draft king sports book and turn picks into big payouts new customers bet five dollars and get two hundred dollars in bonus bets instantly With live betting, rivalry week boosts, and more,

Draft King Sportsbook has everything you need to own your Saturday. Download the Draft King Sportsbook app and use code Dan. That's code Dan for new customers to get $200 in bonus bets instantly when you bet just five bucks. In partnership with Draft King's Sportsbook, The Crown is yours. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler. In New York, call 877-8-Hope-N-Y or text Hope-N-Y in 4-67-369. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling, call 888-78-9-777, or visit ccpg.org.

Please play responsibly on behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resorting Kansas. 21 and over, agent eligibility varies by jurisdiction, void in Ontario. Bonus bets expires seven days after issuance. Four additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkngng.com slash audio. Don Lebertard. Where the motherfucker roeze at? Bring his ass on here. Where's the motherfucker-o-eze?

Is a great question. Stugats. Running, huh? He running. today, huh? I'm ready. This is the Dan Levitar show with the Stoogads. Park, I start with you. This is a question that we're going to dip into a little bit. And in fact, I heard you guys on the show the other day talking about this. The idea of America's team. Now, of course, from a marketing perspective, the doubt

Alice Cowboys pounced on that decades ago after the Pittsburgh Steelers, Dan Rooney said, do you want to be America's team? I think it was an NFL, NFL Films concoction. And they said to the Roonies, do you want this? And he said, no, no, we're not America's team. We're Pittsburgh's team. That's right. That's what he said, black and gold over red, white, and blue.

All right. But, okay, the Cowboys had no dignity, and they embraced it. And so now they still claim it. But if we can have a new American Idol every year, think we can have a new America's team every year. I think we should vote on it every year. Hawk, I mean, are the Browns in the running for that? Would you float them as an option? I would float the Browns as an option. Now, look, I don't know how you would determine America's team on a year-to-year basis outside of the Super Bowl, right? That feels like the easiest way

to determine it. But if it's going to be a delineation between that and how we're determining who America's team is, I would say the Browns are in that running. Here would be my argument, Dave. Because what team gets talked about more consistently on a year-to-year basis with less on-field success? Like most teams in that size market with that lack of success never get talked about. But routinely, the Browns are a topic year in, year out, damn near weekend and week out. This is more of the guys they bring in though. Like they brought in Johnny Mansell. They Bring in Shed Durr Sanders. Oh, this is, I'm telling you.

You hear about the Sean Watson? Yeah, it's John Watson. They do it, of course, but still, it's still crazy. Even when they were losing, like, one in 15, zero and 16. I think you're right. It was continual, like, it's continual coverage. I benefit from me. Haslam likes the guy.

He likes the, you know, let's take a chance on this guy. And then it makes news. It's even before Haslam. I'm telling you. I think it's also, I would suggest, Hawk, why is that is because they are, they are generally pretty dreadful. Sincerely, they're usually so bad that they draft high, so they're relevant because you talk about them all spring.

Who are the Brown's going to take first overall? They have the third overall pick. They are always in the mix, so you're always buzzing. And then you have the lag of four months after they're drafted. How's this guy going to do? Is he going to erase the curse? Spoiler alert, he's not going to erase the curse. He did it.

Whoever you're talking about didn't do it. But by point, Dave, is there's other dreadful organizations and teams with the same level, if not more lack of success than the Browns over the last 20 years. But the story, the lore of like Cleveland being one of those like football towns, Paul Brown comes from there. He gets sent over to Cincinnati, starts a new franchise. They take their team and go to Baltimore. It's like people empathize with Cleveland so much that if they ever did become like perennially successful, everyone would be on that train. We have a breaking news here.

Mike, what are we got? We have a formal trade proposal from South Florida to Los Angeles to bring back LeBron James. Whoa, Dave. So not news at all. I'm in L.A., but I am not the ambassador. I am not the general manager for L.A. I know it's confusing. I am the general manager of the banks of the three.

Not right now. Right now you're running L.A. Okay. What do we have to get to get? Wait, if this is all about, like, your area and you're in L.A., why would you be the Pittsburgh GM? You're literally as far away from Pittsburgh. It sounds like Hawke wants Pittsburgh. Yeah, you want that sounds like, yeah.

I mean, you gave him Ohio without any. And Hogg trying to talk about how he's Mr. Cleveland and Mr. Pittsburgh while he sits in South Beach. I mean, what are we talking about, friend? Now, okay. You should flip a coin or something. Don't get me angry. He's trying to see, this is, he's trying to negotiate. Got a really good franchise.

All right. LeBron James. Okay. Let's throw in Austin Reeves, too. Okay. I like that. And Ricky Pooge from the L.A. Galaxy. I don't know that, fool.

Oh, he's really good. I think I've got the perfect answer for you. Four. Easy peasy. Four. Tyreek Hill. Sandy Alcantra. Wow.

Andrew Wiggins. That's a haul. Evan Rodriguez. We've given me up too much. And Manu. Oh, wow. So that's the cyclone. You guys don't know how good Ricky Pooge is.

Best back quarter in the league, Manu. This is very interesting because also the Evan Rodriguez departure clears up money for the Panthers, which is going to be needed when Matthew Kachuk comes off long-term IR. Dave, your thoughts. Evan Rodriguez, middle sixer, we can survive without him here on the Kings. We do not claim the ducks here. No one pays attention to the ducks in Southern California. So I'm going to make L.A.'s hockey team.

I don't want to play fast and loose with this very important game we're playing here and I am not going to claim Orange County teams here I like it you could go I love the deal it's a hall I think you're trying to overwhelm me with a bunch of names easy peasy Tua to the Rams is the answer because we don't know what's going to be with Stafford

you get the you got to throw someone else in if you're throwing two in there you got to throw someone else in do you understand how negotiating works do you want to replace Tyra he wants to yeah he wants to say LeBron for Tua straight up. Tua and Tyreek. Whoa, that's too much.

That's too much. That's too much. That's too much. That's too much for LeBron and Austin Reed. LeBron's 41. Wait, Miami does this, I think. To bring LeBron back. Of course they would.

You wouldn't purge the Tua contract? Obviously you would. I can't believe I'm already getting this angry about this. Wow. Tua for LeBron. Throw in Stafford. Throwing Safford. Okay.

Okay. All right. Deal. Fair's fairs fan. Okay. You get the over the hill game. I don't think Rams fans are going to be happy with me negotiating on their behalf. But yes, it does make sense to me.

We'll give you a rosier. So what Stavre had one more year? Stafford's got one more year? This is a good deal all. Sandy's going to be like the number four on the Dodgers. You get Rosier to make the cap work. Yeah, yeah, you got to take him. Do what you want with him, but you got to take Rozier.

All right. It sounds like we got something cooking there, Dave. Dave, I want to play something for you here. So I'm not sure if you're aware, but in Dallas, there's a contract situation going on right now. I heard about this. Yeah. Maka with Michael Parsons. And so Jerry Jones yesterday, Hock, I don't know if you heard this yet. So Jerry Jones appeared yesterday on Michael Irvin's, I think it's a YouTube channel, YouTube show. And Jerry Jones appeared on the show with Michael Irvin. And give this a listen here. This is Jerry explaining the details of what's

going on with Michael Parsons. When we wanted to send the details to the agent, the agent sold us to stick it up our ass. Oh, wait, wait, wait. Now, see, I was just so you're clear. Wait, wait, wait, wait, what do you mean? So, so we mean, because people are going to ask. Mike and I talk. Yeah, Mike and I talk. And then we were going to send it over to the agent. And we had our agreements on term, amount, guarantees, everything.

We were going to send it over to the agent. And the agent said, don't bother because we've got all that to negotiate. Well, I'd already negotiated. I'd already moved off my mark over several areas. And so the issue, very frankly, is we've had the negotiation in my mind. Hock, you want to go first as a former player. Jerry is saying that not just that like he threw a number at Micah. He's saying they negotiated him in the player, which is weird because the player has representation for a reason.

but they negotiated and then they sent over the terms to the agent who is David Moologeta and Jerry claims that Moologetta told him to stick it up his ass. Yeah, that's what the agent should have told him because that's, I mean, just being honest for a second, that's such bullshit. Like that is not how business works and that is not why Mika is paying his agent in the first place, right? Because now if you're going to negotiate the contract directly with him without telling his agent, you should also pay back the 3% that he's given to his agent on top of whatever it is.

add that 3% into the contract on a guaranteed basis in year one or whatever the hell it is. It's just a, it's a very old-school and archaic way of doing business, and it's not good business, it's bad business. And I think that's Jerry's problem, is that he's stuck in this era where it's almost a zero-sum game. Either I win or you win, or me showing my dominance in a deal is what makes me a good business person, as opposed to it being a deal that we both feel good about, so much so at the end of three years. we want to go back into business together and he alienates these star players and he drags it out

because he feels like he has to be the dominant one in the deal and the reality is he loses every damn deal he does because he waits to the last second in this hope of like well maybe they're going to approach this like it's still 1972

and David Mulligetta who I have no connection to don't know him personally except for he represents some of the biggest names in all the professional football obviously that's not going to fly with him because he's seasoned in this area. So that's Jerry's problem and that's why it is an issue.

And I hope they stick to their guns on it because most times when players do, Jerry loses the deal. And then not only does he lose the deal from a terms perspective, he also has a disgruntled player who then approaches the organization a lot differently because they don't want to reward them for what they've put in the first three or four years of that contract. Yeah, it feels like the Cowboys, because of Jair and company, now have a certain stink on them. And it then is bad for the organization going forward because, you know, this sort of modeling with a guy who is a franchise player who should be there locked up for the next decade or more. Now that bad experience, now other free agents, I assume, does that? I have a question about all that to get to the end of the story here, Hawk.

Very quickly, though, back to the GM hat, Paul Skeen's from Micah Parsons, Jason Robertson, C.D. Lamb and Dak Prescott. What a haul, right? Yeah, that's not bad. Got to make that deal, though. You still got to make that deal if you're Dallas, right? Don Lebatard. World Rar 3. Stugats. We're going to get that off the ground. World Rar 3, colon, our group chat has a pretty good feeling about this one. This is the Dan Lebatar show with the Stugats. Pittsburgh contingent should pump the brakes on making any deal until they hear the formal offer. Whoa. From Team Miami.

Oh, okay. Well, I mean, we're out there now. Listen, there's no, because we're in a negotiation doesn't mean. Who's the gym, though? Is it Hawker? Well, you can both weigh in on this. Pittsburgh, here's what we want. We want Sidney Crosby and we want Mike Tomlin.

We. We. We're not getting away. Here's the offer. You're going to want to hear this offer. We. For Messi. We have no interest.

What do you mean? The riverhounds become major leagues right away. Well, listen, I know that there would be no way that the plan would be allowed to land down near Miami with Roy there standing in the way. He would get out on the runway and not allow 87's plan to hit soil there in the sunshine state. So it's a non-starter. I like messy in what he does to the economy. in western Pennsylvania. Send Messi to Pittsburgh.

Isn't he 42? It doesn't matter. It's 39. It's the same deal that Miami signed with him. Like, hey, we just need you as a mascot for the city. It's not like you guys. It's not like these are young bucks. Mike Tomlin and Sidney Crosby,

they're at the end of their run over in Pittsburgh. You get messy and you become a major league soccer town for, you know, a couple years. This is huge for the river now. We'll throw in Otto Lopez. Somebody turn off, somebody turn off Mike's, Mike, Because, I mean, I'm not going to indulge this talk about dealing away 87, not in the twilight of his singular career. All right, you can keep him.

You can keep him. All right. We'll throw Spoe in, but he can do any sport you want because you guys don't have basketball. Hey, Pitt Panthers, you're getting an upgrade. Hey, but Hawk, jump to the end for the fans because I think this is the funny thing. There's always, I think it's human beings we understand. I think most of us will side with the proletariat over the bourgeoisie, even if it is. multi-millionaires in the proletariat that we're talking about here.

But as the football season is nigh, and now that we can see it out on the near horizon, fans start to turn and they worry about what their team is going to do once the thing kicks off here. Is Michael Parsons really going to skip games? Do you think it's conceivable that he doesn't he's not in uniform in week one because you know I think that it looks to me like he's not going to be in uniform yeah I don't think he will and I don't think he should be there's nothing to prove for Michael Parsons Michael Parsons can set out the entire season and somebody will pay him because we know exactly what he is as a player and there's we know he's not even close to reaching his full potential and that's the scary part about Michael Parsons because he's so

talented and he is still ascending as a player there's no value to him suiting up in week one and risking getting hurt again, especially for a team whose success so hinges upon him being who he is. Right? That's where the leverage point of Jerry Jones is like, you have none because there are players that are worse than Micah that have signed the highest paid player in the NFL absent of being a quarterback. And we know that's where Micah's trajectory is.

We know that as the contract he is going to sign what he deserves, and you should go out of your way to try to work this way out and not try to get a discount on that because the precedent has been set. But the leverage is, you say Jerry doesn't have any leverage. Mike is young, but look at a recent hold-out hold-in with Cam Hayward and now he's shown up at Steelers' camp and it seems like they're going to move forward there.

The leverage is your career is very limited, how many years you're getting to be out there. Cam Hayward has maybe one or two years left. Micah Parsons has a decade probably. But still, that is the inherent leverage you would think is like, you're really going to waste a season of your career, man? You're really going to sit out a prime year of your deal? And I think it's a little bit different.

You talk about 1972. The rhetoric was always Hawk. When you were playing, it was like, oh, a player misses a season, he'll never be the same again. If you sat out a season, you've got to be in football all the time or else you just lose something from it. I don't think that's true anymore. I think there are a number of examples of a guy sitting out years

and coming back and being fine and maybe even refreshed. So I think Micah Parsons could sit out the season. The leverage is, for what it matters, is that the America's alleged team's sizable fan base really villainizing, demonizing Michael Parsons for not showing up. That's what I'm getting at. Like this close to the season, people are like, Micah, you're ruining it.

This offense is the greatest, and we need you out there. and we could maybe make some hay in the NFC East, but you're not there and you're being selfish. And I think where it helps, Micah, is that selfish is the norm in Dallas. Like to go on a podcast and say crazy stuff is what you're used to with the Dallas Cowboys. It's different with Levyon Bell.

Pittsburgh isn't used to having bad headlines with their organization or people being disgruntled with the Roonies or anybody there. So it was like he turned his whole fan base who loved him because he was a part of their organization against, him because it was so against what they're used to. Dallas is different. Like, no one is going to cry for Jerry Jones because Michael Parsons takes them. The players, right? That's the difference. The thing that undid Levian Bell, the thing that ruined the situation. Levy and Bell had every intention of coming back to the team in week three or at latest week eight or nine. And I know a lot of the

stuff that was going on week to week in that situation. And he was got, what really made him raw was the team saying stuff guys in the locker room like well levy and should be here and all of that and that's what hurt his feelings i don't know if the cowboys players no absolutely not they're going to be like man i'm glad somebody did it yeah i went through the same thing i know exactly because cd understands uh zach martin understands dac prescott understands because he does this every year and it's like well micah has the most leverage out of all of them in my opinion right um so yeah i don't think he'll lose anything by losing games like as far as public perception or in the locker room.

Let me play the other side for a moment here. Jerry should not be negotiating with players without their representation. Obviously, like, it's a dirty move. He's trying to trick Michael Parsons if you're doing that. Like, I remember Bill Parcells pulled that one time. Was it what Ricky Williams maybe here in Miami? Parcells slid the, you know, napkin with an offer to Ricky. What are you doing?

You got to talk to his agents, you know? So it's a dirty move, and Jerry knows that. But Jerry's making it sound like he and Micah negotiate. that they talked about a bunch of different things. And that part to me is weird. Like, I can understand Jerry trying to make an offer, and Mike was like, yeah, that sounds good, talk to my agent. But Jerry is making it sound like they sat down and negotiated things.

And then he sent the paperwork to the agent who told him to stick it up his ass. And now Jerry refuses to talk to the agent because it's like he's essentially trying to son him, where it's like, no, this is already done. Because there was a comment on the screen up here. It's right there. Look, there's only three entities involved in the mic. a Parsons deal that really count. This is from Jerry Jones. Micah, me, and sitting out there by a mile back is that agent. So he's clearly, he clearly does not want to have any kind of business dealings

with this agent. What do you do now? Yeah, well, and then you're going to miss games. And it's, screw Jerry Jones. If I'm the agent, if I'm Micah, like that is not how business is done. It is predatory. And everybody understands this predatory. And again, this is 1970 where you can get that's kind of dumb shit off. Like you purposely are going into it that way. Michael Parsons is not an agent. He has not had enough life experience to negotiate the best deal he possibly can't, even if you thought it was a negotiation because the reason why I have an agent, the reason why I have a financial advisor, the reason why I have a realtor. And so I can just be like, yeah, that sounds good. Talk to them. Right? Like I'm getting rid of it. Otherwise, I wouldn't be paying them to do that

service in the first place. I'm off putting, I'm, I'm offloading it to a person who is an expert and I'm willing to pay what comes with that because I want to just focus on getting sex. Well, you know, Dan talked about this earlier in the week and, and I kind of sort of agree with him or at least float the question is Jerry Jones the face of the NFL. And, you know, you talk about leverage and is it more important for Jerry to maintain his spot, his perch? Or is it the reverse? Or is it the reverse of what I mentioned a second ago about Cam Hayward at the tail end of his career. Jerry Jones is at the tail end of his career, at least. I mean, how desperate is he to make this work?

Because if Micah Parsons is not playing for the Cowboys this year, they have no chance. I mean, I don't have to think they have much of a chance anyway. But, I mean, if you buy the idea that this team can do something that that ends with Michael Parsons sitting the season out. Dave, if we can move it along here, Travis Hunter, what do we make of him trying to play both sides of the football? I have a very hard time believing that he's going to be able to do that at the NFL level. I mean, listen, you and me, I'm not sure. I mean, I only spent eight years in the NFL and, you know, was fairly limited at that. Zaz. I can't remember

your time spent in pro football. But either way, we always, what gets in the way is people who throw up roadblocks. The cynics, the vapid cynics ruin a lot of stuff in society. And specifically with pro football, all we heard about for decades was like, well, you could never run the option in the NFL. I mean, you could never have a running quarterback and succeed in the NFL. The guys are too fast at that level. And then Michael Vic made the scene and any number of other guys made the scene. And then, oh, well, yeah, that's the way you should be, you should be trying to do things. And the thing that gets in the way now is like, well, you can't. How can you play both sides of the ball?

It's just not, it's not plausible to do that. And there is an example in Roy Green back. I don't know, I was talking to get deep dive hawk. Roy Green back in the 80s started out as a DB and he, and he was a good kick return or punt returner and then started catching passes wearing the number 25. And in a time when you didn't wear the 25 catch him. That's right. Yeah, that's another great example of that.

There are guys that, right, that's a more recent example that people can relate to, right? And Dionne Sanders and, right, you know, a lot of guys have done it. So I don't think it's as big an issue. And by the way, it's one thing if it's the Eagles or the Chiefs and it's like, this is all about getting to January and the best spot. If you're the Jacksonville Jaguars, you know, Travis Hunter, you use a big, you want the sideshow of Travis Hunter. you're an SEC country. It means less pro football down there. It just means less in SEC country.

Play Travis Hunter. Get some attention, right? That's got to have great value in Duval County, which isn't exactly a pro football hotbed. Hawk, my son walked into the kitchen the other day, my younger one, my 13-year-old, and he doesn't know much about Travis Hunter. He doesn't follow college football.

And he's like, why is he so good? I said, well, he's trying to play both sides of the ball. He's going to play offense and defense. And my son literally said, What? When's he going to rest? Yeah, that's a great question. He should be the head coach of the Jaguars. Here's how I view Travis Hunter's situation.

And I'm down here in South Florida for the listeners. I'm new to this place. I'm an in-plan. I came here about three years ago. And I am now entrenched in youth football here, 12, 11, 13-year-olds. So few percentage of them play both ways, which is different than how I grew up in Johnstown, Pennsylvania. If you're good, you stay on the field. Kick off, kick return, offense, defense.

You grab the waters, whatever is necessary. So it is very unique at the pro level where it's never been a both sides of the ball thing in the day and age of football where everybody is kind of specialized. For Travis Hunter, do I think he has the ability to play both sides of the ball? Absolutely. That's not the question. The question becomes, is he going to be the best receiver he possibly can be if he's playing corner? Is he going to be the best cornerback he possibly can be if he's playing wide receiver?

And I don't think that's humanly possible. Not because he doesn't have ability. It's just because if you are splitting those times and because you're putting more reps out there, you're putting more wear and tear on your body, you're doubling your percentages of possibly getting hurt, and your stamina and wind no matter how great a shape you are, is diminishing because you're putting more out

than what has ever been typical in the NFL. That means you're not going to have that same energy to devote to one thing. And for the Jaguars, The question becomes, okay, is 75% of Travis Hunter at receiver and 70% of him at cornerback better than 100% of the options that we have at both? And if that's the case, you plan both ways. But he will lose and himself, not lose, because if that's what he's okay, but he's okay with,

he won't be the best version of either one of those things by doing both. Not a bad thing, not a good thing. It's just a reality. Do you mean intellectually? I'm sorry, Zaz. Is it like, do you mean he can't, I'm not intellectually or? or attention or whatever. It's not the physical attrition.

It's both. It's both. Because, again, I can't run a go ball in the fourth quarter as fast as I can run it in the first quarter as a receiver. Now if I'm playing cornerback, maybe that time where I get a little slower in the fourth, now it becomes the third quarter. And maybe if I'm going against somebody who is a little faster

or has more juice or has more stamina at that point, it's a little harder for me to get open. And eventually it will catch up intellectually as well. you spend the whole week trying to gather as much information as you can to help yourself play as fast as you can on Sunday. So how are you splitting your meetings? Are you the kind of person like Tom Brady that's going to spend 24 hours? Tom Brady is the best ever, not just because of his physical gifts, because he was willing to do more than anybody else for the amount of time he had to be the best. And that's going to take from track. Yeah, but he sucked at receiver

to prove your point. You saw him get that one chance catching a pass in the Super Bowl and he And he blew it. So yeah, maybe going both ways isn't the best idea. Yeah, it's interesting to consider, too, his style of play and how that would impact things. He is kind of like Dion, right? He's a burner. He's not going to be banging around on either side. Even if he's a corner, he's not going to be a physical guy. He's not Rod Woodson over there, right? I mean, you can kind of, what you're talking about is go balls. You always hear that with Randy Moss, like, oh, I had to take play. plays off. Every play was me running 50-yard sprints. And so obviously I was a little gassed at some point during the game. But right? I mean, but he's not, at least he's not, he's not getting the crap beaten out of him playing on defense and then being asked to go play receiver, right? Football America. It's a little easier. New episode today. Dave Damacek, Monday and Friday every week during football season. Great job, Dave. Thanks, man. Thai food.