The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - The Big Suey: This Is War

Episode Date: November 26, 2025

"Shedeur Sanders is the most important black man in America since Barack Obama." It's time to talk about some notoriously GREAT guys: Justin Tucker and Deshaun Watson. Then, Kendrick Perkins has a strong take on Shedeur Sanders, and Mike goes to war on behalf of North Texas and BYU. No, just kidding, it's UM again. Lol, could you imagine? Mike? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The tequila. That invented tequila. Broximo.com. Please drink responsibly. Quervo. Hey, Chris here. Black Friday game day is coming to prime and it'll be an epic day of live sports.

Black Friday football is at the center of it with the Chicago Bears taking on the Philadelphia Eagles at 3 p.m. Eastern. That's followed by the final night of the Emirates Cup NBA group play and a doubleheader starting with the Bucks and Knicks at 7 p.m. And the Mavericks and Lakers at 10 p.m. What a nightcap game that is. But the whole day starts with the return of the cap.

Capital One Skins game as four elite PGA golfers face off with $4 million on the line. Black Friday Game Day tees off with Capital One Skins game at 9 a.m. Eastern before the Big Bears Eagles game at 3 p.m. And it culminates with a double dose of Emirates NBA Cup action featuring Bucks at 7 p.m. and Mavs Lakers at 10 p.m. only on Prime. When you fly in Emirates business class and you're picked up by your private, luxury, chauffeur-driven car, you'll see that your vacation isn't really over until your flight is over. Fly Emirates. Fly better.

Welcome to the big suey, presented by Draft Kings. Why are you listening to this show? The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan Lebitard podcast. I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize for that. In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging. I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries if they're just there. That hasn't to you guys? I've done it. And now, here's the marching man to nowhere, fat face, and the habitual liar. There's a Jack White concert tomorrow at halftime of a football game on Thanksgiving. I'd buy tickets to the Jack White concert and be pleasantly surprised to see Packers Lions breakout around it. But I'd want tickets to that. I'd also want tickets. They're talking about Chiefs

Cowboys potentially being the highest rated regular season game of all time. In middle of that, post-Malone concert. Those are hard to get tickets, folks. I want you to take the guesswork out of buying NFL tickets with GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account, and use code Dan for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply, swipe, tap, ticket, go. Did we then agree that, by consensus, that today is the most mailing it in day of the year in the American work labor economy? I'm working two jobs today, pal. Yeah, Mike's getting Miami into the college football playoff.

Just ask him. Three jobs. I got a full day today. I thought you were going to introduce, I'm not talking about whether you have a full day or not. I'm talking about the effort level of a mean yesterday, given that what this week is, where his weekend observations, he goes, he gives us three observations. He didn't have anything. He doesn't deserve to be paid for that. That was bad. It was real bad. It's just not, it's so not trying that it deserves to be publicly punished because.

Like I said, Jess will be here next hour and she has brought it, F1 minute and an internet minute. Oh, I can't do it with the spider behind me. Yeah, we've got a lot of that going on. This is not a fake fear of Zaslow. Don't do this to him on the internet. Do not do this to him on his social media accounts. People have been very kind so far. Like someone sent me a Donovan Mitchell picture.

That's, you know, that's... Any sweater whip? That's cheeky. Yes. And then, yes, you also had John Sally made an appearance. I have a couple of different things, though, that I wish to get to. I believe it's pretty rare in sports, but I believe that there are certain things where we all have the same reaction.

and I believe all of us had the same reaction to Brandon Cook to the Bills, which is like, oh. Cooks. Cooks, excuse me. Brandon Cooks to the bills. Thanksgiving, we'll allow it. Brandon cooked. So we didn't have the same reaction. So, okay, so we don't have the same reaction.

I feel like he's good. He's on a different team every year. Well, but I believe he's just fast. Used to be fast when you get old, but not fast. No, he's so fast. Those fast guys, those straight line speed guys, they find a way to hang on in the league for a very long time. And he's had a remarkable career. I feel like that's putting it a little strong.

He's had a remarkable career. He was a first round draft pick. He lived up to expectations. Everywhere he goes, he produces when he's healthy. He's won championships, I believe. And yet, he has played for like a dozen teams. He's on a different team every year. It's wild.

Put it on the poll at Lebitard show. Brandon Cook's remarkable career, yes or no. That wasn't even one of my football topics today because Justin Tucker getting a tryout from the Saints was interesting. Why would they do that? Oh, just to put a finger in the air and test the air on, is Justin Tucker welcome back by society or not? We're not going to lead here. But why would the saints, like, why do the saints care?

Because he's clearly a saint. The franchise that allegedly helped cover up with the Catholic Church and they gave them PR tips on the side. So, Mike, it sounded like this particular subject matter was weighty enough that perhaps you should get all of your facts correct on, and it's a bad scandal, and it's a bad underreported scandal on what happened with the saints, the church, and how the saints provided for the church, allegedly, cover in ways that is super distasteful for the kinds of crimes that Justin Tucker is involved in. But I wanted to get to Dylan Gabriel being cleared and not starting. So the Browns won a game, and that's leadership. Just, we won one time, we're going to keep, we're going to stay with this. This

is the quarterback killing franchise that has Deshawn Watson as a veteran on the sidelines counseling, new winner Shador Sanders, the first time a Brown starter has started at quarterback in the last 17 tries with his first game and actually won the game. I don't agree with that. I think this should have, and maybe it was, the plan at the start of the season. Like, wouldn't it have made sense give Dylan Gabriel a bunch of games? They're not going to do any winning, and then give Shadur Sanders a bunch of games. I thought that before the season, what was made clear to all of us is that Dylan Gabriel would do about what he would do because Shador Sanders wasn't any

kind of ready, and then the moment that Dylan Gabriel is cleared, I would have assumed that most people were expecting him to have played well enough to get that job back. I think most people were expecting Shador Sanders to lose. We were told that that was going to look incompetent on Sunday, and what looked incompetent is just the general status of Tom Brady's Raiders. I don't think there has been a season in NFL history that has gone more according to a predictable

plan than what's happened with the Cleveland Browns. Flacco in there for a couple games and a little spark, but then, you know, pushed out. Gabriel comes in whatever, and then Shador comes in late in the season, all while Miles Garrett potentially earns a sack record. Well, that defense is obviously

good without question, and if you think that Max Cosby and the Raiders are good at defense. No, that defense, in Cleveland is actually the one that is good. And so by merely being something close to mediocre as a quarterback for that team. I mean, yeah, but it's, yes, their skill position guys are no good. They're not an interesting team.

This is the only interesting thing about them. The fact that the Browns are being talked about, I just can't believe the last 10 years of the Browns. I know the last 30 years of the Browns have been ridiculous laughing stock stop. But the last 10 years to have, like Johnny Mansell is in that list. of quarterbacks that I just gave you 17 first time starters at quarterback hadn't won a game. For that defense to be championship good, championship good, the lions would kill to have what the Browns have on defense. For that defense to be championship good and the franchise

to be so broken in so many ways that this is where we are with the story of the Cleveland Browns from Baker Mayfield and O'Dell Beckham and a season of expectations, we get to, Chador starts because he's famous and people will talk about him? Like that the last part of this season, the only thing that's interesting about the Browns, the only thing, the only thing

is, is Chador Sanders going to win games 20 to 17? It's like a train wreck. They can't take your eyes off. Everyone knew this was going to happen. You knew the Deshawn Watson thing wasn't going to work out.

In part because of who he was at the time, what we had seen recently, but also because of that franchise. I don't think we can say that. You just knew Cleveland going all in on a move like that, guaranteeing the entire contract. You just knew it wasn't going to work out. Mike. I did, because I was a Cleveland Browns fan for most of my life.

I understand that you've been scarred your whole life. Man, please don't forget what Deshawn Watson was as a quarterback before they got him. He got that. Yeah, but don't forget what he was like prior to the Cleveland Brown's getting up. He was bad for a while, Dan, before he got traded. No, he had the one year where we

wasn't that great at the end with Houston and then obviously what it was like two years in between. You guys are doing revisionist history. He got that guaranteed money at a time that no one thought that quarterbacks could be good and he was one of the six or seven best of them. That was by the reason he got that money is because more than one team was willing to give it to him. Let's agree to disagree. I think that there was plenty of skepticism around like what is Deshaun Watson going to look like because the last time we saw him out there. He wasn't that great and he's been away from football for a year. You say this but this was the team that was up 21-0-0-1-0 on the Chiefs with Sean Watson and quarterback back when we thought before

C.J. Stroud. Yeah, he was good. That was going to be the offense. That was going to be the offense that, look, I believe this is fair to say. I believe that this has as much to do with the Browns as anything that is responsible for DeJohn Watson's failure. Folks, want to have some skin in the game? Put your money and award-winning bourbon where your mouth is. Whether you enjoy sipping it straight or mixing it in a cocktail. The true pros know Larsonie raises the stakes in flavor with every pore. With multiple awards between the two, Larsonie Small Batch and Barrelproof are no strangers to the winner's circle.

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Hey, everyone. It's Jeremy here, and I want to talk to you about Black Friday Game Day, because Black Friday Game Day is coming to crime with an epic day of live sports. Black Friday football is back with the Chicago Bears taking on the Philadelphia Eagles at 3 p.m. Eastern. That's followed by an Emirates NBA Cup double header. Bups Knicks at 7 p.m. and Mavs Lakers at 10 p.m. And the whole day starts with the Capital One Skins game as four elite PGA golfers meet with $4 million on the line. Black Friday Game Day, the Capital One Skins game at 9 a.m., Bears Eagles NFL action at 3 p.m. And the final night of Emirates NBA Cup group play with Bucks at 7 and Mavs Lakers at 10.

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Football. Football. Football. Football. Football. Football. Football. Stugats.

Football. Football. Football. Football. Football. Football. Football. Football.

Football. This is the Dan Lebatars show with the Stugats. That contract is one of the epic disasters in the history of giving money in sports, especially in a salary cap sport. That quarterback was good to great, good to great. And everything that he did to himself there, I believe has ruined him every bit as much as going to Cleveland place that will ruin all quarterbacks. I believe that his life, whatever it's been away from the huddle for the last five years, has enough public shame in it that I believe it wrecked this man as a quarterback. That's fair to say. He also made a decision.

He's like, I'm not going to run as much. And then what ended up happening was he started getting sacked at a crazy clip behind a solid offensive line because he was holding all. to the ball too long because he decided Cleveland's going to be a great place for me to reshape my career. And they moved him out of there and Joe Flacco got him into the playoffs. Statue-esque Joe Flacco, who everybody wrote off, got them into the playoffs. He was the problem. I watched a lot of Brown's tape there. Yeah, he held the ball too long. Because we talked about it all the time. Like, what is this? He held the ball too much. I believe. I believe Deshawn Watson's decision making was short-circuited at life. I believe that whatever that is, he held. He sucked up. I believe that

is to bring upon yourself, look, Mike, the thing that we knew about Deshaun Watson before that is just that he grew up in one of Warwick Dunn's homes, that he's one of the great success stories in sports coming through Clemson, becoming a champion, being a model pillar ready to be a quarterback who would be a face and voice for a team, and that's the scandal that I believe everything around Deshaun Watson's short circuit. I remember Davos said that drafting Deshaun Watson is the equivalent of drafting Michael Jordan. If you pass on this guy, you're passing on Michael Jordan, and for like a season and a half, Dabba was right. His last year in Houston in 2020, 4,800 yards, 33 touchdowns,

7 picks, quarterback rating of 1-12. He had a really good season. They were just 4 and 12. But then after that, you look at what he did in last year as Cleveland, 7 touchdowns, 5 picks, 7 touchdowns, 4 picks, 5 touchdowns 3 picks. I don't believe there's been a story like it in the history of that sport. Not one like that, where it's like, oh, that was going to be great at quarterback. and, ooh, uh, and every choice he made after that swallowed him in a way. Man, can you imagine having that, just everywhere you go publicly, everyone's looking at you and they're like, you're a deviant. You're used to be this thing.

You're a rock star. Are you trying to get me to feel bad for him? No, no, I'm just telling you that that's what's happened at a position I've never seen happen before. It happens all the time. It's happening to the same franchise in Houston. Maybe we should ask Justin Tucker. Yeah, it's happening to just after.

It's happening to C.J. Stroud. Do you not remember Kyler Murray's first season? It happens in the league now. It does. It happened to Baker Mayfield. It happened to Sam Darnold. They were lucky enough to dig themselves out of it. Not this way, though, is what Dan said.

5,000 yards, 33, and 7 is you're going to be a star for 10 years. Tua led to league in passing. He was elite. But it's happening a hell of a lot more in the league these days. Fine. Moving on to a couple of other subjects I wanted to get to. Do you believe that L. Duncan, and I want everyone to make this assessment for themselves.

Elle Doggenkin, we are thrilled for her, really happy. She's going to Netflix. She's a star. She's obviously a star. She's been a star for a long time. Big enough to leave ESPN and go to Netflix to be the face of their coverage. Do you think she's leaving ESPN because what Kendrick Perkins had to say? And of all the shocking things that Kendrick Perkins has had to say, you guys tell me where exactly this ranks on the list of things.

when you think about, look at you smiling before I even get started here. I love this clip so much. I mean, this was a few weeks ago, right? This is a few weeks ago, and Elle, you know, they're doing their coverage. They're talking NBA on Sports Center, right? And Elle's obviously hosting, and she's got Kendrick Perkins on, and they're doing the split screen, and he's, like, sitting there giving real analysis for, like, four, five, six minutes or what have you.

And then finally, we get to a place where, you know, like, it's time to say goodbye, right? it's time to say goodbye to Perk and you know Park's got a light in the mood a little bit What did he say? No, I don't think you want to know what he had to say because on Perks Perk's list of things

as a public order Chris Cody's looking for the sound but he's been too busy just being lazy with Thanksgiving sound so he told me before the segment started I'll have this perk sound for you and now he's looking for it because he's been eating too much turkey and how many curses has he's thrown out there back there with you guys as we've been

filibustering? You told me to go to Perk, did you not? Perk on Shador. Yeah. What he said, Dan, really quick, if I may add, he said, why do you need an ibuprofoam and you can have a perk? Which was a bar.

It was a bar. But what did Perk have to say about Shador Sanders? Shadoor Sanders is the most powerful black man since 2009. You know what happened in 2009?

That's when President Obama got elected in office. You said you were sitting there watching the game in your house, and what you did? You ran with the TV. God damn, right. Right? What was you doing, DB?

Oh, cheering. I was cheering. You was cheering like a motherfucker. When Shedua Sanders is on the field, and when I say powerful, powerful, because it's two sides of it, right? Think about it. Okay, you got the black community.

He's bringing the whole black community together. I ain't ran across one black person that didn't say one bad thing about should do it. We won't even. And guess what? Not one, because he has the balance. He has the balance of that I'm arrogant, but I'm humble too. Yeah.

He's having fun with this shit. And on top of that, y'all want me to say, it ain't, y'all want me to fear and I ain't going to happen. Yeah, he's talking to shit. I love that, he's the most powerful black man in sports. No other, no other, matter of fact, black man. He's the most powerful player in sports. I mean.

We're going to talk to Jamel Hill. about everything happening around Shador Sanders, because it is interesting to watch. It really is interesting to watch. And the rallying around Shador Sanders because he represents, well, you tried to break his father when his father came through. We really liked Dion Sanders, who's, you know,

you saw what happened around Colorado last year and what the party was around Colorado, and now college football will spit out Dion Sanders because he will not be able to do the things that he did in elevating his son and Travis Hunter to the top of that sport. And so now there's an emotional rallying around these people, the Sanders family,

of you will not break arrogance. You will not crush our star. What are you laughing about, Zaslo? Just laugh. Like, here's my problem with these podcasts, with the players like Kendrick Perkinson. I don't think it was his podcast. He's laughing because it was the most ridiculous thing

he'd ever heard in his life. My problem is, there's multiple other people in that room with Kendrick Perkins. And it's just nothing but agreeing with the statement that he's the most popular, the most powerful black man since Obama. That's former athlete podcast. I know, that's what I'm saying. There's not one person. Let me think on that for a second. You want to walk this one back a little bit?

I'm glad we're talking to Jamel because I don't know that we have the room to answer this question. No, I'm curious to see if she acknowledges if this is a thing or not. the symbol for black excellence is something the Dion Sanders family has been carrying around through sports and hardship for a long time. It feels like Dion is more powerful than his son is, right? Well, he got two. Look, he got...

Man. So you disagree that Chedora Sanders is the most powerful person in sports. I think he's not even the most powerful person in his own family. On Fox 1, you can stream your favorite live sports so you're there for the biggest moments as they happen. For me, I cannot deal with spoilers,

so I need to see it live, especially on college football Saturdays and NFL Sundays. With Fox 1, you get it all. NASCAR, the MLB postseason, edge of your seat plays, jaw-dropping moments, and that rush like you're right there in the action. Sports are meant to be watched live, and you can do that with Fox 1. Fox 1, we live for live, streaming now. Don Lebertard. I think I would have been on his side.

I would have looked at you like, what did you say? I'm telling you, me and my friend, the rest of the world, way home, all we kept saying was, I ain't cheating. Stugats. I think he got your ass. I think he got your ass. I got his ass. Chris, Chris won this one for sure. Not pathetic. It was great. This is the Dan Levitar show with the Stugats. Okay, this is one of the things I didn't want to get here with this, but the pull of Dion Sanders as a representative for defiant athletic excellence that will not bow in face of anything, for his son to now come through the league and on a whole assortment of people making comparisons, no lie, I've heard it too much over the last 10 years, of Chador being held back in some way because of what the league or how the league did Kaepernick. Like, you can see a whole bunch of things in the shadow. When Kaepernick happens that way, you can find conspiracy in a number of different ways if you have all of your race biases.

And you can find that Shador Sanders is being wronged by a league who doesn't want black excellence to succeed. So he becomes a symbol and an avatar for something him and his dad. Yeah, no, he definitely became a symbol. The president of the United States was saying, what are teams doing? The guy's on the board. Go ahead and draft him. He took a victory lap over the weekend over Sheter's performance. You should, given his take.

He's just modern-day Tebow is what I'm saying. He, just like you like to say, FSU is the equivalent of what's happening with religious evangelicals, Christian evangelicals. You realize that Shador Sanders is modern-day Tebow? Just something to talk about because he's super famous, super hugely famous. He represents a cause, and I think we're out of our depth on it, and so we'll talk to Jamel. But I should probably acknowledge what you said about FSU and evangelical Christians. Yeah, what was that? So you remember when FSU got shut out of the CFP, and it was unfair.

Of course I do. Like, they won't let you forget it. Nor should they. Something happened that. Not just the trajectory of FSU, Arrow pointed down ever since then, but they got weird. They're very strange online. And it was a traumatic event. I get it.

And so privately, I liken it to, like, when evangelical Christians saw a black president. And then the country just kind of went in the direction that it did. That was something that forever changed FSU fans. and now they're just stuck in this really strange, culty place where they think every conversation's about them, but it isn't. No one really thinks about them. They think they move the needle. No one cares.

But they are the center of every conversation around college football that exists. Lane Kiffin, no, let's talk about FSU. And I understand I follow a fair amount of FSU media and, in part, they're doing their job. There's a lot of it, too, incidentally. FSU, the following that this program has for 20 years of finishing in the top five makes it one of the, like, they want to believe they're one of the powers in the sport because they have been. They do. I saw Bud Elliott, who is a great follow.

It does good work. And as someone that also is like a propagandist for his program, I'm down with it. I get it. Bud put out a video in which he's like, this, bringing Mike Norville back sends a message to the Big Ten in SEC. hey come get us and ACC pay us more what? Dude you got like two ACC wins in the last

three years. This is crazy the Big Ten? No one's thinking about you right now if anyone's seeing that it's not even a headline given everything that's in the coaching carousel like you have to remind people no FSU made a formal decision to bring Mike Norvell back. Why? Well

they're flat broke paled palo like that's what it is and they know that where they stack up with all the available jobs is they're not going to get a good guy to fill that role this season because they're a bit of a joke right now and it's going to take them some years digging themselves out of this and we mentioned this yesterday go back to when they got shut out and we were over there pounding the table they should be in there the regular season should matter it's a theme that has been consistent with me anyways but i told you this is a house of cards okay the the seminals were 13 and 0 two years ago okay and the collapse shouldn't go to 2 and 10

the season after that, but I do understand the history of the place, and when you consider culty campus communities, Zaslow visits them every weekend. Culty campus communities. Do you understand how FSU comes by generationally

as the rulers of the ACC, a weak ACC, but no one question what was at the top of it? FSU knows that for 20 straight years, top five, at the end of the season. They think they are the SEC. They think that they deserve to be treated with their history

as one of the greats in college football because that's Alabama before Alabama without the titles. It's 20 straight years of top fives. They think they're one of the big programs and they got left behind in two years, left behind in two years. Which is odd. Granted, Miami hasn't been 13 and 0 good. Miami hasn't won an ACC championship

with its backup quarterback good. Miami's been to the ACC Championship once, but I watched what happened with them, and they've gone a little nutty, and not just by a little. And I'm like, man, if Miami gets shut out of this CFP, for the love of God, I can't become that. Because that's embarrassing. To think that you're the central focus of the college football world when you're an absolute joke. No one cares. No one cares about Florida State University. You have to make people care. You made them care two years ago. after you in the dust. You were trailing behind and you thought you were smarter than everybody else despite every single warning that your opposition laid out in front of you. And you kept

thinking that your way was a right way. And now they're rationalizing this move is thinking it's a right way too. And I'm just a little bit sad because I don't hate FSU. I respect them as a rival. I love the game. And they've just gone crazy like an old aunt that just went on Facebook and started doom scrolling and made it to her identity. It's crazy what's happened with them. You know Steve Spurrier has more ACC championships than the University of Miami? You know, Steve Spurrier never beat the University of Miami as a player or coach.

It's cool. That is like UM Tourette's you have. Disarmed his ass real quick, isn't it? He's down the propaganda list. He's got to go halfway down. I see your tweets too, pal. I see your tweets too, pal. You want to invoke a guy that is a career loser against Miami? Cool.

You didn't even let the stat sit. That's why I'm a minister of war. Steve Spurrier. Notice he didn't say defense, Dan. He said war. That's offense. This is war. He had a bar earlier to Washusen, by the way, which was unreal.

Yeah, it's a famous quote about war. It was great. I've been Googling famous quotes about war. Well, speaking of which, thank you, because I have this disagreement off air with Stephen A. Smith about right and left and right and wrong. And I want to talk to Stephen A a little more before I discuss some of the things publicly. No, and I'm not happy with him for a number. number of different reasons. So like, that have to do, Mike Ryan tried to protect, I guess me for, I thought it would be least insulting to stay that Stephen A. Smith is a useful tool.

No, Mike jumped right in. No, but I try to protect you because you were, you were taking, you were taking some of that responsibility off of his shoulders and you were speaking for Stephen A. And it just wasn't right. And Stephen A has come out publicly and kind of co-signed what I said, which is like, you don't speak for me. We don't agree. I'm not a victim. I'm not being used. Right. He's not being used and he knows what he's doing allegedly, right? Right up until you do that to Jasmine Crock and then have to apologize. And then you don't know what you're doing, right?

Because you apologize. So you didn't know what you were doing on how it is you got used as a useful tool there or you did know. But I want to talk to him more about this privately before I have a public fight. I don't think these things, I don't think I talked about it well a few weeks ago when these fights become instead of Trump's on McAfee. It's, oh, look, Beatle and Carrie Cheney. champion and Stephen A. are fighting over here. Or instead of, you know, again, Trump's on McAfee. It's not political, but it becomes us fighting with each other in public, the minorities fighting with each other in public. I'd like to talk to him a little bit about

this particular thing before I talk about it more publicly, and I will at some point, because I don't actually want to ruin a relationship or a friendship over something that gets said here that I haven't said to him, because he does me the courtesy. Whenever he's critical of me. He does me the courtesy of telling me it's coming. And so he tries to talk it out with me and I want to talk to him about it before I go any further. But I regret how I talked about that Beatles

stuff. Because it's just then the black woman gets trampled at the bottom of that and it's Trump on McAfee. Like, I don't want to lose quite that way publicly. Now is a good time to remember where tequila's story truly began. In 1795, Cuervo invented

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