The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - The Big Suey: Yell University

Episode Date: June 28, 2023

The crew continues their conversation on Damian Lillard and the Heat while breaking down how the Celtics moves this season have impacted their future. Do teams make moves simply to improve or specifically to beat the teams they couldn't the year before? Then, David gets concerned he may not know what his daughter was studying in school, Dan and Stugotz discuss the Mets struggles, and we look back fondly at the smoking habits of former Marlins managers. Plus, is ESPN officially giving up on audio? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're listening to Giraffe King's Network. Welcome to the big suite, presented by Giraffe King. Why are you listening to this show? The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan Levitard podcast. I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize for that. In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging. I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries

that if they're just there, that hasn't happened to you guys. I've done it. And now, here's the marching man to nowhere, that face and the habitual liar. We mentioned that Damien Lillard is turning 33, which might be surprising for some. I think it might be more of a byproduct of people not watching him in the post season.

Surprise by how young he is. I think it seems like he's been around forever. Yeah, but he's fresh face. But I do think now is a time in his career to make this move. Quite honestly, I think the time to make this move was probably two years ago. Recently, more injuries are sacking up on the player. He does play a game that I think will age well. Would you agree with that? I mean, like

how many years of excellence do you think Damien Lillard has left? I mean, we have a comp and Steph Curry who's a slightly older than him and he's as dominant as he's ever been. I think Damien Little absolutely is a guy who can do all of those things. I mean, he's got a little bit more explosive going to the rim. He's got a more of a first step off of pure athleticism than it is off of misdirection of sight of hand and then Curry does. But again, there's a drop off.

It's going to be a very gradual. I want to. Cool. So he's he's got a 12. The best player he's ever played with is probably the Marcus Aldridge. Yeah. Right. So Bams better than the Marcus Aldridge, I think. Jimmy Butler is better than the Marcus Aldridge. So this is the best situation he ever gets into. He did go to a Western conference finals with CJ McCullum as his running mate. He's a really good player. And you say he's got an age with grace. That's a player that you make this aggressive move for.

Everything is in front of him. If he walks into this situation, an A.C. that made the Eastern conference finals, keep in mind, like for the second consecutive off season, we'd like what Boston has done. And they're the competitors within the conference, Middleton, we'll be on his way out. I'm, by the way, I'm 50, 50 on what Boston has done.

Because they don't, because they lost, Mark is smart and they don't have like someone to kick some ass and save them. And they're gonna lose Grant Williams too. In this, they need, they need that dog in them. Yep. And they don't have a dog on them. Yeah, but they lost a dog, they added a better player. Well said. They added a better player though.

He and a dog though. Sometimes they added size. You need clubhouse. I don't know what this I like can't. I'm sort of heartbroken thing about rooting for the Celtics without Marcus smart on them. I'm like I'm like, I don't'm like that's a part I don't like it's like with with Celtic Fands are like I see it's Thomas is going on like relax. Can I tell you the heat fan perspective on them losing market when they win when they win the finals next year you can play this back to me. This is all for content. Okay. It's not break the fourth wall here. Here's my heat fan perspective on them losing Marcus smart. I don't like it. I like Marcus smart thinking that he was the best player on the court. I like Marcus smart being inefficient from outside. I liked it when he would go for the yellow. Let me end this game right now when it would always clank

off the back of the backboard. I liked having Marcus smart out there because I think he was an overrated defender. I know he was great for his size. I know he's great for his size, but I didn't think he was the best defenderender on their team. If you like Marcus Smart, you're gonna love Przengus then. He's gonna be perfect for you on Boston because he's not, he to me, the Celtics did not get better. Exchanging it.

I mean, from a he-per-spector. Offensively, they did. He had a good year. Everything that I say with regards to other teams, my team is through this fan prism, right? He had trouble with size. They did. And they've added size with Prz other teams. My team is through this fan prism, right? He had trouble with size. They did. And they've added size with poor Zengus.

And Boston had very shrieky shooting from the outside at the when it became crunch time. They didn't have people that they could trust. They felt the Golanari absence in that series against Miami. I think poor Zengus is a consistent shooter, consistent enough, any size. I think itosengus is a consistent shooter, consistent enough, any as size. I think it plays into what some of Miami's weaknesses are, that being said, if Miami adds Damien Lillard,

I think Miami's favorites in the conference, I really do. You can't imagine that the Celtics were making that trade based on trying to get past the heat, right? I don't, that seems. Somewhat? That's not really. That's just, this is a team that's given the header. That's all.

Wait, this is a team.'s given that or that's all i wait at this is a team one more one one of you one might argue they made the trade to get past everyone well i that's a fair argument but every trade i mean you guys had a great rivalry when you were with the phoenix sons with uh... with the san Antonio spurs did you ever make any acquisition specifically to get over that spurs hump yet has been a chiciloneo specifically to get over that spurs hump. Yeah, his name is Shaquille O'Neal. Precisely. The spurs were destroying us up front on the glass and in the post.

And so we went out and we got shack and what ended up happening was we were great defensive rebounding and they couldn't score on us in the post. But then they just pick and roll us to death and that's the rides of Tony Parker and Manu Genobli. And so we traded one set of problems for another. Did you not think about that before the trade? Yeah, we did, but there were other mitigating circumstances. So the point is... The owner wanted him.

Like? That's not a mitigating circumstance. That's the only circumstance. It was an owner to owner deal. So that's it. So those things happen, but in terms of when you're building your team, it is a big mistake to build a team to beat one other team because you're not trying to be one other team. I don't think the Celtics did that. I think the Celtics saw an opportunity to just become a better team. And they took that opportunity.

That may not work, but they didn't do it because they want to get past the heat. I mean, no, they did it to what a championship. They lost to them in seven games. Like, if it were to get past the heat, like it wouldn't be because, oh, we lost in seven games to this. It's like in a baseball team, it would be if the Marlins are looking up at the Braves right now in the East and at the deadline,

you've got Bruce Sherman and Kimming saying, hey, let's make this trade because we got to find a way to get the brave. Actually, that happens. That happens in Major League Baseball all the time. You see moves to beat out competition to talent all the time. Oh, the Braves are in on this talent. And this could be if they get that player there further off in the distance. So I actually think you see that a lot. That's a very different than what I'm saying. Yeah. That's when you, that's on waiver claims when you're trying to block. You're doing all sorts of

Paul and type stuff. Yeah, but it's derivative of what we're talking about. We'll get stuff off season where we'll want to get, make sure that we have lefty relievers because the AST had a bunch of good lefty hitters. We want to make sure we have some lefty relievers. It happens, it happens more to you than you would think because you would, you would sack your bullpen around your division competition. But I'm talking about when you are making stuff when you're making up your team.

Like when you were going up against a lefty heavy fillies, you guys had a fair amount of lefty arms to combat them. But we went into a season once without one lefty in the bullpen because we had righties who could get lefties out. Just figured it out along the way. Right. That was a weird season. But that was a pretty that was a pretty big outlier. But it but it happens there was not it there was

not a good enough lefty. The righty schools were where you're like you can't write with your left hand. Everybody's got to be right handed here. You force because they're going to for the lefty desk. Remember how weird those things were. I'm only familiar with people forcing their kids to be lefties. I've seen that before. I would never do that because you're more, we've covered this, but you're more inclined. You're more likely to die.

No, but a lefty athlete is 100%. A lefty athlete in some sports is way more valuable. Like in LaCrosse, if you are a natural lefty, you're gonna get recruited. It's much easier to make it to one of the top schools as a lefty than as a righty. There's something very funny to me though about having your three-year-old and you're like you're going to be left handed like assuming they're going to be good enough at sports for that to matter like okay. Every parent thinks that a kid is

going to be good enough at sports to matter. It's the strangest thing. Nobody has a kid and says you're going to be the best nonfiction writer this world has ever seen. Speak for yourself, David. That is that. Listen, my kids are smart, but it never occurred to me. You're gonna be a forensic psychologist, honey. No. Is your kid a forensic psychologist?

About to be. Wow. That's pretty cool. Is that me like Dana Rikorps' is or something? No. Even what's Cremones? It's no. No.

Bones? Did I get it wrong? You know Rickety Cricket from it's always any is married to bones. Really? What was the last episode of bone? I don't know. 2011. Maybe 2013. Sorry. Maybe 2013. On TNT every day. Every day. Who's in bones? Emily is no additional sister Emily. Yeah, yeah. 500 days is pretty much. Rickety Crickets, what are the hercissor? The ortho psychologist are ones who do criminal profiling. That's what at least what I thought.

No, forensic means it's like after the fact, right? Like they're no forensic accounting. What I was told by her, but now I'm slightly concerned. A bit of bone-study bone. A tuition check. Well, it was bones' name bones. bone study but now I'm slightly concerned. The bone study bone. The tuition checks have been known. It was bone's name bones. So maybe you just don't understand what it is. You're going to understand.

I'm picturing David Borean. This is the God State University. That's the, is the deployment crayon? Would the S's backwards? You are impugning the, this is not the Northwestern. This is the Yale Is Yale spelled white ELL It is he are a D.O. That's what the present was for

I'm trying to spell that up PRA 18 a Prado huh instead of a Prado Prado Prado Can now. Zing Rolex I am almost positive. Can we check WebMD forensic psychology is Is when you all with a pitiate? I believe you're really right now because you have no idea What is your daughter is doing because I'm accused of being a bad father to begin with? I'm on and I'm on it forensic I'm on it. Forensic psychology is a special theme professional psychology characterized by activities primarily intended to provide professional psychological expertise within the judicial and legal systems.

It's like JK Simmons in law and order, right? Like they bring a lot of it. It's on the have like a family. That in the year. Can we take a minute? I have a tear in my eye. I know what my daughter is doing. I don't think you realize how mature that is.

Well, my parents definitely couldn't tell you what I'm doing. So can you tell us what you're doing? No, I'm here. Nebulous. Nebulous. You mean it? I work in a nebulous project. Do you wait? Does your kid consume your content? Absolutely not. It's too got to do your kids consume your content. No, not really. I'm terrified because my kids are getting to the age where they can find things. And I'm like, I don't want to. They're not looking for you.

Please, I'm the internet. I hope not. I mean, on social media, they follow the show. No, no, I'm talking about watching either clips or listening to the show or why. We send clips out. So occasionally, you know, they'll see me smoking a heater in the garage. And it's like, you know, I do without that.

So it come up in. I have a special deal with my kids. I don't know if you do with yours, mine are older than both of yours. My deal is that if they're discussed in any of the shows I do, I give them a heads up. But otherwise, oh, yeah. So like this, I'm going to have to, to I'm gonna have to call my daughter and say Listen just so you know someone's gonna try to say that you didn't know what a friend is like We got real in your head there David. This is terrible

I had it right and I got concerned and I needed Wikipedia to make sure I got it right But you got it right. Yeah, but you know, no, no, that was from the American Psychological Association's website. That's even, but now I'm a winner. There it is. I described it perfectly, which worries me because that's how she described it to me. I'm wondering if that's where she got it from. Again, Yale University. That would be a huge concern.

That's the scam of the year. If you're writing tuition checks and the kid is not actually going to the school, but that's like getting an advance on your life. Parents, friends, welcome to the graduation of the class of 2023. I didn't go. I didn't go to the Northwestern graduation of my other daughter because it was COVID. It's possible. I never saw it diploma. Oh, wow.

I have never seen a child graduate. David's questioning everything. You're kidding me. This is a nightmare. I need my own graduation now, and I got to call my kids. Hello. Someone, listen. I need your help.

I'm in Barcelona, and the creatures are everywhere. If you listen to the rice, look at the rice. Listen to what you hear. You're going to break your eyes. Sí, en Barcelona. Y las criaturas están por todas partes. A veces... Al raíz, ¡blook! ¡Araíz! Escuchéis lo que escuchéis. Tapados los ojos. La calle vamos todos a ciedas. Pero lo más aterradores no saberen que confiar. Uy de las personas que os piden que mireis.

Si queréis seguir convido. Dan Levatore. Estreno en Netflix el 14 de julio. Te atreves a ver. Defending champs, she's, I'm gonna go. Go suddenly penalty blocks. What happened there? Excellent. Good, Nico. This is the Dan Lebatar show with a stugat. We talked about how last weekend the Reds and the Marlin had buzz, momentum, and crowds, crowds to see Cincinnati and the Marlins with energy around their team when they've been the teams trying to compete on the cheaper level of the scale. And the reason I bring it up, Stu Gotts, is because we have not talked enough baseball around here in general, but what we specifically haven't talked nearly enough about is the total and unsurprising implosion of your New

York Metz. We have not mocked you because you are so excited about your owner winning press conferences and spilling money all over the place. And there is not a bigger disaster outside of Oakland in baseball than what is happening with the Metets, where they are spending all the money in the world and everybody in New York hates that team because they went and got Verlander, they went and got Shurjer, they went and did the easy name thing and haven't learned even from previous Mets regimes that have books written about

them the worst money ever spent or whatever it was that was written about the eighty six minutes are not the eighty six minutes the what was it that's good money eighty six that's what a world's here is the worst team money by was like late eighties it was david cahn it was the meds have already done this story where you get all the players in your state it's in barricade there's sixteen back in the at all east there's seven out of the third wild card spot money How many back in the Marlins? It's more general than that. We don't have modern standings right in front of us at this minute.

It's close to that. The Marlins are six and a half back in the NLE's and they're a really good team. And in fact, I heard in WFAN over the weekend that everyone was blasting. They were actually praising you for getting rid of young Carlos Dayton. No, I'm being serious. But back to the Mets for a second, you cannot blame the owner, okay? Because what they did do, Dan,

and it was the right move to do it, was they gave up on Jacob DeGrom. But you cannot blame the owner that Max Scherzer is no longer Max Scherzer. And you can't blame the owner that Justin Verlander is off to a bad start and got hurt when he hasn't gotten hurt in a couple of years. And so I'm fine with Steve Cohen.

I like that he's our owner. I like that he's willing to spend money. He'll spend it on show, hey, O'Tonnie next year. I'm okay with it. Like this is a bad year, baseball's a funny sport. I just have to eat it. That's it. Mike Ryan, you are looking around the room as if

and Mr. Verlander missed all of 2020. He missed all of 2020. Virlanders all often heard. I don't know what you're talking about. Virlander hasn't been hurting a while. Like he may have missed that one year, but that's the only miss that entire season. Mike was four years ago. He didn't miss a start the last two years. It was not for they offered to grow him 120 over four over three. Excuse me. Just see enough. That worked out for the meds, the Grom leaving. Everybody knew he wasn't going to be healthy. But it's not, but they didn't realize Texas was going to go in the way they did.

Texas always does this. The meds, they did it with A-Rod. Yeah, well they've done it with Cliffly. They've spent big money. They're huge, huge free agent spenders and it doesn't ever really work out for them. Oh no, but it's working out this year, Ben. They're good, but even Texas, then it is for the men's. But even the free agent acquisitions,

the money that they've spent, like they're not good because of those. They're good, they're a good team. It's working out for them, but like the free agent market has not been kind historically to the Texas Ranger. This year they brought in a Volody, they last year with Simeon and Seager.

You traded for Evolody and an Evolody that last year with Simeon and Seeger you traded for Evolody and I love dude Evolody's guys ever Evolody's career is fascinating to me because he gets better with it. He came to the Marlins throwing a hundred miles an hour and wasn't any good and he was he spent some time bouncing around a little bit but clearly has figured some things out because now he throws a hundred miles an hour and everybody has trouble hitting him. My three at the last four years, Verland, there has made at least 28 starts. He had the one year where he's at, but for the most part he's been healthy, and so they gave up the grommessentially for Justin Verland.

How does one suddenly figure out how to throw a hundred miles per hour? It's weird. Sub-sus-is. Oh, wait a minute, but he threw a hundred when he was getting knocked around with the Marlin. Avalde was a kid throwing a hundred. And he still throws a hundred. Did you guys gas up Josh Beckett's radar gun in the NLDS because Josh Beckett turned, hit triple digits a couple of times in the NLDS that Sunday, Matt and A and it defied logic.

We definitely played with the radar gun. No, that's not true. However, the best example of it is that we lowered it for Brad Penny because Brad Penny was a picture of we had part of the World Series. And what he did in his delivery is he would throw the ball and on his follow through, he would be turning around to look at the radar gun. And all he cared about back then, it was 96 97.

That was amazing. Forget the 101 102. So we would change the radar gun and he would come off and he'd be so pissed off. He's like, that was not 93. Brad, it does not matter. It doesn't matter. Just get people out. Stop looking at the radar gun. You know what's funny about that story? One of the great quotes of my sports lifetime is Brad penning on the Yankee Stadium World Series field. And he's like, he's saying

to me, they don't want me to throw 99 anymore. They don't want me to throw 99 every pitch anymore. So I'm not gonna do it. I'm gonna throw 100 and f***ing want that. That's it. But you didn't lower job packets. But you didn't raise up Josh Beckett to make it seem like he was throwing fast enough. No, he admitted to that. He admitted to that.

All I'm saying is that we definitely played with the radar because you control it. It's not like it went. It got inputted if that makes sense. I don't know. I remember the Fox broadcasts and that was the game that started to come back against the Cubs and the NLCS. Everyone being like, whoa, how was he touching 101?

And then someone that had washed Josh Beckett, I thought he just, he's gone mad. He's tapped into something special, which if you watch that postseason, was true in terms of stuff, but 101 miles per hour from Josh Beckett. Do you remember the app that you're talking about? You may be talking about the one against Sammy Sosa.

Yeah. Critical app at, we had to get the game because we were facing at that time, Zambrano and then Pryor and Wood. And the Zambrano game was at home. Beckett's going and we have to get that win, of course, because we had our bags packed. We were going.

We had our bags packed. For game five, we actually packed not just to go to Chicago, but we packed to go to New York or Boston. So we told all the players, failure suitcase were going on a week road trip. And so Josh liked to feel good about it and we felt he had the talent to be okay with it and not obsess over it the way Brad did. The idea that you would fudge all Marlon's numbers so that no one can tell what the truth is about anything.

It's like every number in the history of the franchise, I have no idea what they're not. Yeah, I'd rather that know this information seriously. Like I want to believe Josh Beckett was able to do that You can't fudge wins losses or rings true one of the things though that has happened. I don't know. Let's ask he ass rows in The sport in general rob manford regrets that guy. Yeah, that's that case has been closed now I was still a little stunned even understanding that everyone now throws a hundred and one every single person throws a hundred and one mile an hour sinker. Everybody in the sport. I was watching an LSU baseball game the other day and a picture through 40 pitches over a hundred miles.

So LSU is a testament like it may not be the case in pro baseball. It'll be curious. We may see some more parody though in pro baseball now that the rule changes have happened and you don't necessarily have to outslug these teams with big budget. But in college baseball, with a very limited sample, money does seem to buy you a lot. I have been confused by a number of different things. The Marlins, I don't think still without a pitch out all season. The sport has changed so much that every time a team has runners on second and third i'm like they're gonna be with no outs we lost the pitch out there are gonna be three

strikeouts in a row here because it's just so all or nothing that all second and third doesn't even represent a rally anymore you want all three of those runs by hitting a home run and so some of the stuff i'm watching is confusing to me but what's not confusing to me is that the meds should know better, Stugat, then spending all of your money recklessly on whoever the free agents of the moment are, that plan rarely works. Dude, they had 100 plus wins last year. They made it to the post season. Like sometimes it doesn't work out because it's a funny sport. You remember first and second, no out, little bun,

get your second and third with one out, little sack fly. Those were the good old days. Marlon's the Marlon's just still doing that. It's the best. It was the best. Wampire lead off, single stolen base or Luis. Can see over. Yeah, amazing.

It drives me. But it might be JP and Castillo one of the same time. Oh my god. Zero Marlins. For the rest of my life, I remember the documentary on the World Series after the Marlins won it in 2003. And one of the features is Juan Pierre standing at home played at Yankee Stadium rolling baseballs down the third baseline to see how the lip works because you knew he was going

to lay down a bunch. Cut to lays how the book. Because you knew he was going to lay down a bunch. Cut to lays down a bunch. Louis Castillo single. He goes first to third sacrifice fly for Pudge. Oh God. It's a big stadium fans hadn't even sat down and they were still so we talked about a

pregame. They were so high from Aaron Boone hitting that home run. And we're talking 20 years ago, but this is current because Boone is still the manager. Last time he made them happy. Last time I made who happy? Yankee's back there.

It's one of Homer men's stuff, too, by the way. And so at the end of the day, we knew that getting Game 1 was going to be important, and we wanted to get started. We would keep track of how many times do the line up during a game would both Pierre and Castillo not be on base. And there would be games upon games where it did not happen where one of the two would get on each time they would be up. Billy, Mike, please as a stupe long time observers of the Stugots.

Him bored and different about one of his teams spending all the money in the world and shitting the bed means he doesn't care about it. He hasn't been watching yet. He doesn't care. It's the concert circle. He doesn't care about anything happening with the match. It's been the three-year concert circuit, the three-year fair well tour. Remember, he couldn't pick out Francisco Lee Dore.

That's right. Out of a line-up. We actually know it is true. No, it is true. It is somehow true. Juan died here. It is true. Did he ever die?

No, he was shown a photo of Francisco Lendorne as, who is this? Yeah. And he had no idea. But did he have the blonde hair? Yes, there's no hat. Everybody knows that. It was obvious that it was Lendor.

You know, one of the highest paid players on his favorite team, the shortstop, he's staring at it and has no idea and what I'm telling you and what Billy is not yet confirmed. Stugat is fundamentally brain-fried. Like it's happened. He has mushroomed his way through whatever it is in his brain, loves even his own teams. Well, the brain on drugs, famous commercial.

It's actually played itself out in real life. His friend. So we got Lendor, huh? I think the thing is he can focus, to God's when he's focused on one thing, we'll focus the majority of his attention on that one thing. Right now it's the dead.

Exactly, he's not paying attention to the metric. He will get mad about the meds if you give him two months, he will work himself into that anger. It's just not there yet. How many times have your brain, as your brain been focused on paying taxes? Ooh, it's been a while. Let me think. I can get you some write-offs if you want. Well, I mean, David and my shirt showed me this trick earlier this week. I mean, one of our really put my mind to it. So God's is going to buy a team so he doesn't have to pay tax.

Don Le tard. Off handed to me and Chris before he started playing. He's like, seems like that Tony guy gets triggered pretty easily. And I left the hardest out loud of ever left in my life. Still got started pretty easily. That's easy. That's so easy. I'm trying to.

I'm trying to. It's crazy. It's crazy. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, That's crazy. Take it off. Oh, I'm running. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. No, you know what I've realized? No, you're so. Love putting their athletic insecurities on me.

Don't project that shit on me. You suck. Not my problem. Chris Cody leaves a game early. Oh, let's support Chris Cody. Whatever the f***. Billy does. Let's support that.

My mind has got a buffalo. Oh, let's go to Buffalo. Let me help you. What the f*** are you doing? You're totally proved that you weren't in all on hand. Thank you. My guy has got a buffalo almost got a buffalo Tony you totally proved that you weren't in all on him. Thank you Show with this to got Five four three two one five four three two one five four three two one 5 4 3 2 1 5 4 3 2 1 5 4 3 2 1 Everyone's ready? Yep.

5 4 3 2 1. I look at the... Yes sir. I love that you did the vocal exercises. And what came out of your throat was just a huge ass frog. For someone that haven't seen a lot, that's the first time it's actually quite like, so I was like, what came out of your throat was just a huge ass frog. For someone that that happens to a lot, that's the first time it's actually quite gone down like that. That I just witnessed something for the first time in the history of the 19 years we've been doing this together.

I think you should run all of that and we should continue five, four, three, two, one. Mike, I was remiss last week because I was happy when you left because you've been an agitating nightmare for months now, but you left on a day, not unlike today, where I am talking to people in Tony and Jeremy and Billy's not emotional about these things. And for some reason, Roy wasn't either. When news came down from ESPN radio that their morning show was being ended, Max Callerman,

Keeshan Johnson and Jay Williams, a show that got no traction that was replacing something that had been in that time slot for 20 years, at a place that used to matter when it came to putting together radio lineups, whether it was Colin Cowherd, Scott Van Pelt, Tony Cornheiser, before them. I remember sitting on Lincoln Road, I don't know, must have been 15 years ago, talking to an original ESPN radio executive who cared deeply about radio and to see what ESPN radio has become in the last 15 years as a dinosaur has died in front of us unable to keep up with changing times, changing platforms, changing audiences. I was made sad in a way that made me want to reminisce about what sports radio used to be,

and no one wanted to do it with me. No one was nostalgic or interested in the roots that birthed a cruddy morning show that didn't have chemistry, that didn't last very long, that was sort of the last tendrils of, here's ESPN radio, trying to throw some names together to have a lineup national audience. It's hard to make this work nationally, but it's basically ESPN radio giving up on radio is what it symbolizes.

Yeah, I think to a degree they've punted on audio. I mean, when we were there, you'd describe DSPN radio as like a rounding error. And I think the financials do kind of inform their approach to content on the audio side of things. Sadly, I think it also directs their decisions when it comes to quality control. I understand how it happened, too,

because ESPN radio became a force when they decided to just throw two people together and see if it worked with Mike and Mike and it worked historically well and that kind of informed every single one of their content decisions with a few exceptions, you know, Colin Coward was a radio guy before they they they brought him up to the big leagues and historically with syndicated sports talk shows, that was how you did things. You'd work out, if you were on ensemble show, you'd work out your chemistry, you'd work out your bit as local, you'd put years into it, and then you'd graduate up the ranks, and your show would take off. And ESPN for the reasons that I laid out,

and also because oftentimes, the headshot collar at the audio division would be someone that they just had to advance because it's a big company Disney and you have to show growth and you have to ascend up the ladder. Oftentimes, or in my time there, some of the headshot collars in the audio division didn't have much background in that specific field.

It was a place that they generally put people, they didn't know where to put. And so whether they knew radio or not, they were overseeing radio with very little expertise as to what comes into what is content people want to consume. The person I was talking to on Lincoln Road 15 years ago had a lifetime of training in what radio was. Everyone who followed him was not that.

Yeah, there were a lot of, don't get me wrong, there were a lot of people that had decades worth of experience in audio, but the main decision shot collar was someone that didn't have an audio background. And I think the proof is in the pudding in that in terms of podcasts, they've seemingly punted on podcasts. I mean, S.B.N.

As they just signed Pat McAfee also, like obviously that's like a streaming play, a YouTube play as well, but it's the biggest, if not one of the biggest sports radio show in the country. Right. They're going to get the downloads that way. Well, he's more of like a video property, but he's a huge, he is a huge podcast and this is what ESPN's done. This is what Disney typically does.

They had with us a major digital audio property, a major, a major digital audio property that was one before ESPN came into the fold and they didn't necessarily nurture it, and they had no problem jettisoning it with all of its intellectual property and its RSS feed. And then what ends up happening is rather than develop these strategies,

they go on and overspend or or spend, I don't think they're overspending on Pat McAfee. In fact, compared to his previous deal, they actually got a bargain on Pat McAfee. But that's a great thing about having Disney as your parent company. They'll just buy their way back into being industry leaders.

And now they become industry leaders on video streaming to the tune of $90 million. That's what it costs instead of developing these talents. They've essentially punted on podcasts and audio. And that's an embarrassment for ESPN when you consider the lead that they had just as a brand. They could develop star after star after star, but ultimately the person called in the shot didn't really understand podcasts. We were very frustrated that we were pointing

to our digital audio numbers and we were working with a company that was still trying to squeeze every cent out of terrestrial radio. When it comes to audio, ESPN has been behind the times for quite a while. I think they've acknowledged that through some things that they've done. This is very inside baseball, but the way that they operate from podcasts now

and how they sell it, they've kind of outsourced it. So they kind of threw their hands up in the air saying, yeah, we admit that we were wrong here. You look back and your time of ESPN and you say that you left because of they weren't treating you or the digital strength that you had. I thought my impression as your friend but also as someone in the business, I thought that you had a disagreement over what your freedom actually was. There are dozens of reasons I can give you for us feeling like we weren't on the same page with building the same thing that they were building.

And what's come to fruition is if we'd still been there right now, we would be the casualty in their radio lineup because they don't care about radio anymore. It's not something that they're going to go all cheap on radio, they're gonna go pat McAfee on video. He's a hybrid brand. He works in the podcast space. They will grow what he has, but they're not they are not going to put out a radio lineup. That that medium's dead for a lot of people, not the older people and not people who you still need because I've said these numbers before. The majority

of listeners to sports content are still not in podcasts, but it's obvious that that's where the future is. To have this entity punt on both forms of that future, both ESPN radio, which they could have kept alive just by pouring resources into it, by virtue of the name, or everything that they're doing in podcasts, they could be growing because Disney is a monster.

And if they invest in those places, they will obviously birth a bunch of things that are great content and that have a lot of follow-in. But they went into free agency. Well, several years late, because keep in mind, they had Pat McAfee in their sable. And rather than develop him, he built his name independent of them and it is causing them 10 times more than it could have possibly. So while I hear your point on Pat McAfee, Pat McAfee, while it's a successful signing in that he's hugely talented and he's an industry leader in digital video, is actually highlighting

their failings as this place that can actually develop talent. ESPN radio for far too long, both with the talent that they put together. And the morning show that's in question had a million obstacles. Number one, they had to find their chemistry on the air. They had Zubin's health issues. They had the pandemic. There's a million reasons why that show failed. And there were people that said it was going to fail from the outset. Oh, but they were just throwing people together.

But that's what I'm getting at is ESPN radio has largely been for several decades at place where they justify salaries for talents and for management types because they make so much money. And it doesn't really matter if they have background in that specific space or not. I have talked to enough people, David, in the entertainment industry, who are always stupified by TV executives or executives at large who don't actually know what they're doing because nobody knows

how to make a hit thing. A lot of people try and fail, but in this industry, which isn't the smartest of industries, it's not the big budget, thespian industries. Just throw a couple of people on the radio, give them microphones, and see if it will work. The idea that TV executives or radio executives know how to do that is largely overstated, but they often think they know how to do that and are hell-bent on proving to you that they know how to do that, even though it's not actually a skill.

The television industry is populated, but that ESPN is a production company. ESPN is run by producers, it's not run by talent, it's run by middle management. But the people who put your show together were not even associating with you. They bought our show too. Our show came in, sat there, and then left after eight years. They weren't doing anything for it.

They just sat there and watched it. They weren't helping us make that show. They bought it. They used it, and then they let it go. It sounds a little familiar to me as I'm thinking about metal arc. How are you gonna stop that from happening with something like nothing personal, where you leased it, you're not paying attention to it.

You're not doing anything to grow it, make it better. And then, you're part of the growing right now. And then after a year and a half, it's just gonna go again. Yeah, so what? It's quantifiable that your appearance just on our show, both weekly, prior to your appearance on metal arc and prior to your signing with metal arc was positive to your metrics

and the best way to grow a podcast property is to appear on larger podcast properties because we do things like mention, check out David on nothing personal with David Samson then our audience gravitates to you. But what are you doing to grow yours then? What are we doing to grow ours? We try when you're a juggernaut,

like the one that we've created. What we try to do is concentrate on quality control. We've moved in a brand new studios, we've improved our video. There's plenty of room for growth on the digital video. I think for as much foresight as we had in digital audio and that's well reported and on, we probably were too consumed with that's well reported on we probably were

too consumed with that in the pandemic to really concentrate on digital video and we like guys like pat McAfee and other shows lapis in digital video and now we're playing a bit of catch up. When you're playing catch up just make sure you make the right decisions both with talent and allocation of resources. Well I think the talent is threatening us. Well I think are you saying that you're not a good talent to hire in this respect?

Because you are certainly part of that plan. I would say that when it comes to ESPN radio, they often do this because again, I see how the pool got tainted by just having astronomical success with special talents like Mike Greenberg and my Goliath Jr. But as Goliath Senior, I'm sorry, my Goliath Senior. Whatever, both talented. success with a special talents like Mike Greenberg and my colleague Jr. But my

I'm sorry my colleagues in your balance. They're both and they let go to two like they lost him to free agency. So I think if you look at they let go Joe is funny. Yeah. If you look at their history who's behind these throwing talents together and yeah, J will and Max Callerman and Kishon, they're going to be the face of the failure. The show didn't work. You can give excuses, but ultimately the show didn't work. And when it goes aggregated and it goes on the headlines, they wear that failure. But the people actually deciding to throw these talents together. Time in, you okay? He's been coughing all week. Yeah, time in and time out.

He's here only to appear on a juggernaut so that he can boost the numbers of nothing personal. And then leave. And become a free agent in 18 months. I would say though, that the people that are largely responsible for these decisions, let's just throw together, throw these people together see if it works. And you have these failings, which is an abysmal failing.

When it comes to how badly they've screwed the pooch and when it comes to digital audio, even when they had a property like us and it do enough with it. There is usually one person or two people that are the main decision makers on that. And while we enter more layoffs over at ESPN, while more talent gets embarrassed, while more good people get laid off at ESPN. It is disheartening to see some of those that are really behind some of these failed decisions failed shows continue to accrue more power.