The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - The Bill Belichick Snub: Why Everyone is Defending the GOAT | Plus: Super Bowl Rematch with Gregg Rosenthal

Episode Date: January 29, 2026

It's time for a rematch! Dave Dameshek talks with the NFL's Gregg Rosenthal about the New England Patriots vs Seattle Seahawks Super Bowl. Rosenthal even gives us his pick. Spoiler: he chose with his heart. Then they get to the snub heard round the world. And why the most surprising part is everyone going to bat for Bill Belichick. It's truly a strange stretch of news and the whole gang is here to cover it on this episode of Football America! (Photo by Bill Wippert/via AP) AUDIO Football America! is available wherever you listen to podcasts. Leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/football-america/id1831757512 Follow us: Dave Dameshek: https://x.com/dameshek Gregg Rosenthal: https://x.com/greggrosenthal Host: Dave Dameshek Guests: Gregg Rosenthal Team: Gino Fuentes, Mike Fuentes Director: Danny Benitez Senior Producers: Gino Fuentes, Mike Fuentes Executive Producer: Soup Campbell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Okay, I'm just going to come clean. I didn't vote for Bill Belichick to get a gold jacket. Mostly because I don't have a vote, but I want to make sure tough guys like Jimmy Johnson don't call me a coward. Yes, if you missed it, Jimmy Johnson, coach, husband, spokesman for wiener growth pill extends, and now Empath is mad. Big mad.

Bill Belichick didn't get into the Hall of Fame. Fine, sure, we need an investigation of what happened here in an overhaul of the process. But can everybody settle down a little bit? I get it right-wing pundit slash hot taker who doesn't watch much football. and others think this is a disgrace. And yeah, somebody who loves the yardstick history provides, I'm of course interested in the hall.

Self-serious and pious as it is. And as I've said a million times, you're either a Hall of Fame or you aren't. We don't need a 15-year lag to reassess the situation. Excess inventory at one position or because some senior player's window is expiring shouldn't be factors. I'll tell you what, from here on out,

I'm just going to make a list and we'll go off of that. Or we can just stick with this biased and vindictive. process. T.O. is a top three or so receiver of the Super Bowl era, and he had to wait because he did sit-ups and some other hooey and applesauce. You got to understand. Ken loves the little bit of nuance. The Hall of Fame plus standard of not just getting in, but doing it on the first ballot. Ooh, you're extra great now. Or famous? Yes, even in the Hall of Fame, there are clicks, and yes, it's very dumb. Same goes for the Baseball Hall of Fame, not having the homerunner Hit King. Voters are being petty with the weight of some authority.

that has no transferable power outside this one little environment. They're lunch ladies. All that said, I do love Bob Kraft and Tom Brady leading the course for Belichick, the martyr. Who's done more to diminish him than those two? Kraft says Belichick's the best coach of all time. Then why'd you fire him? You fired the best coach ever.

Do I have that right? And Brady says if Belichick's not a first ballot Hall of Famer, there's really no coach that should ever be a first ballot hall of famer. Okay, but again, Tom, this kind of suggests you think Belichael Belichick is the greatest coach of all time, which you actively disproved when you showed him up by moving to Tampa and winning a title nine minutes later. Obviously, the coach who's won more Lombardis than anyone, including Lombardi needs to be in the hall, and I'm quite sure he will be soon. But Brady's time in Tampa, plus Belichick's Cleveland years, plus whatever's going on with him and Jordan at UNC, all say the same thing. The emperor's got no clothes.

No, wait, it's worse than that. He's not nude. He's got that ratty sweatshirt on, which by the by is a good metaphor for what his head coaching run is. Staying permanently sure, but iconic. Without Brady, though, that sweatshirt is just something that's been around a long time with lots of holes in it. And now, as people in Chapel Hill can attest that sweatshirt barely even counts as clothes. Can somebody please put a gold jacket on that man and end this melodrama and whatever materials left send over to Jimmy Johnson to dry his tears? Sheesh! Let's start the show.

Yes, hi and hello, my fellow football. Americans and welcome to Football America. We're presented as ever by our pals over at Draft Kings. Draft Kings, the crown is yours and we are now maybe 11 seconds closer to Super Bowl 60 than we were when that intro music played in the meantime. This is episode 47, the football player who wore that number best in pro football history. Mel Blunt, obviously, of the Pittsburgh Steelers. Also shout out to John Lynch, who has a gold jacket himself. Also, if you're an old man like me, you may remember Glenn Blackwood. He played for the Miami Dolphins alongside his brother, Kyle, back in the 80s.

How many guys are like that now in the NFL? I guess there are a few instances of brothers, but on the same team and in the same position. They were the two safeties for the killer bees back then for Don Chula. And then Andre Kirolenko, aka AK-47 from the Utah Jazz. Any that I'm forgetting there, fellas? Gino and Mike, Mike and Gino Fouentes? Kiko Alonzo comes to memory, although not really relevant. I didn't tell you Kiko Alonso before we started for you to just come in and swoop him away.

It's the only guy I had. You know, perfect for the Miami Dolphins. Kiko Alonzo. Yeah, half Cuban, half Colombian guy somehow ended up at Oregon, and now Gino just comes in and swoop it. So, you know, you're funny. You talk about brothers being good teammates. Not happening right now, Dave. No, indeed.

No indeed. Powerful message, poignant. Mel Blunt, speaking of old man stuff, in case you don't know, I talk. about the most, the biggest inflection points of the Super Bowl era. Maybe the biggest this side of free agency is in 1978. The Mel Blunt rule is put in because Mel Blunt, six foot four of them and all of that was too physical for NFL pass catchers. They couldn't get around him, so they had to make a rule that you could only handle the pass catchers so much. And that freed up, that liberated the receivers and the passing game really opened up.

And as a side note, as a Steelers fan, I should point out, people thought, well, that's the end of this would be Steelers dynasty because they're a ground and pound team that leans on its defense. And then Terry Bradshaw on 78 goes out and wins the MVP, slinging the ball all over the place to Stallworth and Swan and all the rest of them. There you have it. Hey, subscribe, would you? We appreciate you doing so on YouTube. The Football America page is thriving. Make it thrive a little bit more. With your participation, we love the comments that you put in there.

like to bounce off of my fellow football Americans, answer their questions, and so on, and also do so wherever you find your audio podcasts. Right now, we have some other stuff to talk about Mike Gino, Sue Campbell, and me have to figure out here in advance of our trip up to Santa Clara, California. I'll be there to start next week, Super Bowl 60 Week, San Francisco, Santa Clara, all the rest of it. But first, let's get into this Super Bowl a little bit, shall we? If you haven't heard. It's the Seahawks and the Patriots and one of the great voices on pro football analytically and otherwise. It's our pal Greg Rosenthal. Let's talk to him right now, shall we? All right, let's get to it. It's the main event. I'm thrilled to be yapping with this fellow

because he's been one of the more prominent Patriots fans in my life for, what, 15 years or so. He's the host of NFL Daily. Also, back 40s and free agents with our other pal, Daniel Jeremiah, It's the boss, Greg Rosenthal. Look at him glowing. He had to wait three or four years from Brady to Drake May. How are you, fella? What was it? It was eight years, right?

Seven years. But that day, I tried to be a gutless Patriots fan and almost dropped them. It's never going to get any better than Belichick and Brady, you know, when he left. But when Drake May was drafted, I believed. I was actually surprised how long it took a lot of people covering the Patriots to realized Drake May was the truth. I knew it last year with Gerard Mayo. Even Gerard Mayo couldn't put the stink on him. 2020 hindsight now. This is not that. You in the moment felt good about I always like that as philosophically, you know, when it was Peyton or Ryan Leaf and all of that.

I always have said I'd like to be have the second pick because now this avails you of any sort of blame or fingerpoint. Like what did you want me to do? The only guy who is who was left was that one. That's what the Patriots basically fell into with Drake May, right? I love Drake May as a prospect. Nate Tice, I think was the first one talking about saying, well, actually, I kind of think Drake May going into his last year at UNC was 1A and Caleb was 1B. And I'm like, oh, who's this guy? So I started watching him. He's with Josh Downs there at UNC. And it's like, this is my guy. I'm going to root for this guy. I love watching him wherever he lands. And when the Patriots and Bill Belichick beat Sean Payton, Russell Wilson,

I believe in the Broncos on Christmas Eve that dropped themselves from the two to the three pick. I thought we lost them because at that point it was expected he would be one, two, then they get him at number three. And I was convinced. And I think he was much better as a rookie than people realize. Like he was already like obviously going to be one of the guys, I think, as a rookie. Just the team was terrible. All right.

You know, we could dive into MVP talk and all of that. And maybe we'll have time for that. by the way, that draft class already, if Drake May wins, enters itself collectively into the conversation of best QB class of all time, right? I mean, you have to stack it up year over year, but yes. I mean, you're in good shape at minimum. It's the best start any draft class has ever had. I know Marino was ridiculous the first couple of years,

but to have Caleb one game away from the conference championship to have Bo Nix having made it and maybe would be in the Super Bowl. if he had stayed healthy and then what jane daniels did yet nothing nothing tops that right jaden daniels is an afterthought already which is which is weird um okay we both care about our history and we both like playing what if that's a great what if you just uh you just floated there what would the patriots look like if they had jane daniels from the from the jump starting in 2024 um all right last things first we've already yapped for too many minutes for this to be the first thing we talk about, but still, final score, Super Bowl 60. We got to get you on the record.

Oh, this is the first time I've had to do this. I'll go 27, 26, Boragallis with a field goal at the buzzer, the Miami product, yeah. Let me tell you this. You look positively dapper, swell in that, in that natty sweater that you're wearing there. I got to tell you this from a fashion standpoint, the uniformant frowns on Super Bowl 60, if the Patriots are going to really end up wearing that white getup that they wore in Denver and prior. It's a very unattractive. And then I think the Seahawks are going to go all Navy. This is the biggest distance in a uniform matchup of what the reality is going to be versus what's available in the closet.

If you would have gone Seahawks throwbacks against Patriot, that might stand as, I don't want to get hyperbolic, the best uniform matchup in Super Bowl history. I totally agree. largely because I think the Seahawks throwbacks are my number one pick. I would take those over literally any. I think the Patriots wearing those whites are the best that they can do. I've never liked the flying Elvis. In general, I'd have never loved their uniforms. I think that's the best they can do, so I support them.

All right. I want to talk about this, that, and the other with you. But just a little X&O analysis from somebody who's really good at doing it, what scares you about the Seahawks as they match up against the Patriots? where can they expose or take advantage of something with New England? Well, I think they're the best team in the NFL. I thought them and the Rams were the two best teams all season. And so in general, I just think that they're a better team.

But up front especially, if you think you're at a starting point when the Patriots have the ball, that there's almost no scenario where the Patriots' offensive line is going to match up well. Like the Seahawks, as good as they are getting pressure, they're even better at like short-yarded situation. stopping them like Leonard Williams, Byron Murphy, those two kind of create possibilities for everyone on the outside. And I've been worried about Will Campbell all season and Jared Wilson and the offensive line. And the fact that we're coming into the Super Bowl with Drake May playing his worst football

of the year, I'm happy it'll be better weather. But like that could just be a mismatch up front. And then does he get a little skittish, which he's been in the playoffs? I will say this. it's almost third rail kind of stuff when people go like, he's got surprising athleticism, and we know that that's code for he's white when people do that stuff, but sort of the inverse of Lamar Jackson.

Like, okay, he could run, but let's see him throw the ball. The opposite is true of Drake May, in my opinion. In fact, he puts the game away with his legs. Why are we not celebrating that? That counts as good quarterback play. I absolutely did in the moment. And I think you're right. The fact that he got through this game and I think did what he was coached to do.

Watching that game back, though, there were some open receivers where I kept like, he was not pulling the trigger, which was not the Drake May that I saw all year, who was playing really fast and loose. And it just reminds me a little bit of how he started his career where you could almost see that he was, he was maybe a little tight in these spots. So I just want him to be the free, freakish athlete that he is. and kind of trust what he sees. And hopefully McDaniels can scheme some guys open because on the outside, like when they have the ball,

it looks like a mismatch against this secondary. But McDaniels has got two weeks. He's been in this spot before. And I think they should be able to figure some things out. By the way, just before we got going here, I asked you, you said something about, well, I thought that may deserve more MVP consideration or something to that effect. I think he should be the MVP and maybe Stafford gets it. But as a reminder, I don't care what they're too scared.

or their NFL teams. They weren't playing, you know, Big West teams at any point during the NFL season. When did it stop mattering that you're in first place versus what Matthew Stafford was, which was third place? And end of conversation. Their stats are approximate, so that's that. That's what I've been holding on to is that the history of quarterbacks winning MVP is non-existent if they're not like a top three seed in their conference. And the stats are not close if you get into really the dorky stuff. The success rate, the EPA per play, the stuff under pressure. Oh, yeah, just like the Hall of Fame voters are deep diving who they're giving their votes to for gold jackets.

Yes, I'm just applying the standard that's available to the one that those guys are applying here. We're not, we don't need the advanced metrics because the voters are not applying them. That's fair. And to me, the biggest difference, not just that the record and the seating, was the legs. I mean, that's like, if everything else is close, you have one of the most valuable rushers in the league at quarterback. His success rate, like, in terms of his scrambles.

He literally scrambled more than every quarterback in the NFL this year. Maybe he doesn't want to do that his entire career, but it was incredibly important for their team this year. And, like, that's, you have none of that with Stafford. And so that, to me, is the biggest difference. One more thing, side-by-side comparison. One guy was throwing the ball to Pooka Naku and the who in Devante Adams, the other guy was throwing it to old Stefan Diggs and Hunter Henry.

I mean, what were you talking about? Those aren't comparable either. All right, listen, I touched on the Hall of Fame, the scandal of our times. This is what everybody is so empathetic about, is poor Bill Belichick? Question for you, is Bill Belichick rooting for the Patriots to win this Super Bowl or lose? Oh, he's ruined against him. I mean, why Kraft and Brady both stepped up and vouched at all. Oh, he's the greatest head coach of all time. Of course, we got to give him a gold jacket. Well, because one of the reasons Bill Belchick didn't make the Hall of Fame in his mind could be that Robert Kraft isn't helping him out. And I wouldn't. You're G.D. right. Of course that's the case. Bob Kraft's having it both ways. I love to dare the ones stepping up to talk about this. You fired him. If he's the greatest coach of all time, how do you make sense of that? Well, firing was fine.

I think it was more producing a documentary extremely slanted to try to make your Hall of Fame case look better and make Bill Belichick look worse. And look, look, I think the immaturity of their relationship and how they can't share the glory reflects poorly on both of them. Like, you would like to think if you're Robert Kraft's age or Bill Belichick's age, you would have learned something, like, through your life about, like, what really matters. And, like, they haven't learned that. They're just petty and wanting all the credit for themselves, which bothers me as a Patriots fan.

But it always bothered me when people would talk about, like, Kraft, Belichick, and Brady. And it's like, oh, the three guys that really brought them the Super Bowl and who deserves the most crap? I'm like, why is Kraft in this conversation? It is, he contributed. but he is nowhere near the other two guys and the fact that he I assume is going to get in this year ahead of Belichick will bother me but it would be delicious and interesting if neither one of them got in well I mean we'll find out I have beliaked about the residents of Mount Pius who control who gets into these halls of fame and of course they're petty themselves just like crafted

And Belichick are, you know, they did this to T.O. They do it to Barry Bonds. They do it to Roger Clemens. They did it to Pete Rose. And the thing that is vexing, one of the things is the idea of inventory, a surplus of inventory at a certain position or an age group. Like, well, Elsie Greenwood. We got to like, is he a Hall of Famer now? What happened between his retirement 25 years ago and now? It really is. is Bab Streisand territory, like, uh, well, things so simple then, or has time rewritten every line. The evidence hasn't changed. You've changed somehow what I think you've shaved off the rough edges, um, of reality and now kissed him, some of these guys into the Hall of Fame, whether or not they deserve it. It's weird. We're just going to move on in the conversation without recognizing the, the pipes that you just displayed. Were those, Pipes. Of a song, I don't even know, I have to admit.

Maybe that's our... You don't know the way we were? The way we were. It's pretty good. Thank you. Thank you, Greg. So that means Tom Brady's rooting for the Patriots? Probably not.

I'd like to... I bet he'll say different. I mean, yeah, he'll say different. It just won't feel as, you know, like, I'm the only one who's ever gotten the Patriots. a Super Bowl special for him deep in his heart. But I hope that's not the case. I hope he can embrace Drake May in a way that former Patriots quarterback great Cam Newton has really not done during this year. I thought that was, that's shameful. By the way, Cam Newton just

burying Drake May all season long after Drake May said he's his hero. But Brady, yeah, I think he'll be room for the CX. Of course, of course. That's got to be the case, no matter what he says publicly. And by the way, when was the Super Bowl in Houston? Whatever year that was, I had an early morning interview scheduled with the quarterback of that team at the time. And he showed up and we were yapping about this and that. And I said, you don't want your alma mater's current QB. He won the national championship a month ago, but you don't want him to win a second one now, right? And the guy who I was talking to, his name was Deshaun Watson, he's like, why, why wouldn't I want Trevor Lawrence to win another one? And I said, well, then that makes Trevor Lawrence the greatest quarterback in Clemson history, right?

And, you know, that's, you know, you have an ego, right? And he kind of chuckled and we continued to converse. An hour later, I was informed by our bosses that Deshaun had called in to complain that that was an out-of-bounce question. that was really cool. Which shows you you did hit on something, right? Because if you actually were cool about Trevor Lawrence getting that second title, you would take it as a fun joke. You know what I mean?

You wouldn't call back an hour later. I think different people are wired differently. You may be painting with a broad brush. I think there are Tom Brady spots or Deshawn Watson spot who would be rooting for that team and the next guy. But the sense I get is Tom Brady is not that guy. People like Maurice Jones Drew, well, I can't just put this on him. The lamest thing is when guys say, like, oh, I think the stirs the drink is Trevi and Henderson or whatever or something like that.

And I mean like, you know I got to stand up for my running backs. Why? Why do you have to do that? Jeff Schwartz on the show all the time. You know I got to stand up for my old lineman. Why do you have to? You don't have to. Now, we get it. That's some weird fraternity you think you're a part of. Anyhow, um, let's, uh, we'll see if we have time for anything else, but I do have to get you on the record on this,

because I know you and Daniel Jeremiah actually are, are investigating this on the show that you do in this window, um, in the never-ending NFL calendar. Which QB or QBs are plausible options do you think for Mike McCarthy's Pittsburgh Steelers in 2026. I know Aaron Rogers' name has been floated, and Mike McCarthy says, who wouldn't want him back? Well, Dave wouldn't want him back. It makes no sense to bring a 43-year-old man whose presence announces we have no intention of making a Super Bowl run this year. That's a weird announcement to make in springtime. How say you? Well, I think he's coming back as long as he wants the job. If he wants the job, I don't know if he wants it, though. I think, I think he wants it. Why wouldn't he want it? I was convinced all season. I was like everyone was

talking about him possibly retire. Like, why would he retire? There will be a job available for him. You think he's just going to walk away as long as it doesn't go horribly wrong, which, you know, the playoff game did, I think he'll want to go back. And the fact that they're like, hey, we're going to be tough guys this year. We need an answer within a month. We can't wait longer that.

Well, it just shows you like they're going to do it as long as he wants to come back. And I don't think that's a good idea. But I also don't really have a lot of faith that they would do much better in free agency. Okay, well, I want an answer to that question, but of course, at least Aaron Rogers surely understands. He has a memory that dates back a month ago that will remind him that when big guys are chasing him, he doesn't like it, and he really stinks, and he could walk away now, maybe not into the sunset that you see in movies, but he kind of restored who he is in the NFL. Why would you push it at this point, the 43? I don't think it. Well, anyway, you, you're just, you, Your thoughts on who the other options, if not Rogers, would make some sense that are plausible. Malik Willis is the prize, which is a wild place to be. But if they wanted to, I think that would be an attractive spot for him. I actually think, you know, maybe that could rejuvenate Mike McCarthy a little.

Like, I could see that. Kyler Murray is going to be available potentially in a low-cost trade. I don't know if I see like the fit there, but you could do worse. I think that's better than Aaron Rogers. Then you get into the morass where it's like, oh, would you want to trade for Eagles backup Tanner McKee? He's kind of interesting. Like there's not a lot of like top shelf options.

Kirk Cousin is going to be out there. Daniel Jones, I assume, is going back to Indianapolis. So then you're looking at. So you do think Kirk is, you think it's done. They don't hold him to have a little competition in springtime. establish who the Falcons guys is. I think there's a chance that he could go back there, but the way Stefansky sounded at the first press conference, and then they restructured his contract to make it easy for them to cut him, I think they're probably cutting or trading

Kirk Cousins, yeah. I mean, that makes sense to me, but okay, for all of, you know, everybody has to lead with their dim cynicism, and we've been over it where Mike McCarthy is concerned that this is a retread. Obviously, he's a QB coach. Mike Tomlin was the opposite of that. what's the reality as far as you can tell about Mike McCarthy in the Year of the Lord 2026 as a capable, if nothing else, developer of QBs? Because you say Tanner McKee is a throwaway joke and I don't think that's the answer. No, it wasn't a throwaway joke. I kind of like Tanner McKee. Well, you know, the jokes that you've heard are like, well, he had Aaron Rogers and he worked

with Brett Far. You know, we had good quarterback. And Dak is a good quarterback. He did get some of the best out of each of those guys. but more importantly, where the Steelers who don't really have a QB at this point are concerned, he's done some real good work. Some Ham and Eggers have at minimum deliver the best version of themselves with Mike McCarthy. How say you? That's true.

And I think his attention to detail and like the professionalism of the offense, like he brings all that. And a lot of his strengths are similar, I think, to Mike Tomlin strengths, which is like organization and everyone, you know, on the same page in the building. like he can run a team. He's the face of the franchise. So I think he can take over for Tomlin. I don't think they're in a rebuilding situation.

And you're probably not going to be losing much, maybe even get something. But you're probably ending back up in the same spot. It worried me a little bit, Dave, about how surprised he seemed to be there. And that it was kind of like, I can't believe this is happening. And the main thing the Steelers say was like,

we can't believe he was available. Someone with this resume. It's like, well, he was available for the other 10 teams. no one else is considering him. And the fact that like last time, what did you learn when you took a year off? He's like, well, you know, I got my PFF Ultimate account. And I studied all around the league and I did all this different stuff. And then this time he's like, well, I watched a lot of volleyball of my kids.

And Aaron Rogers in 2025. I don't know, look pretty good to me. He was, he did have a, like he got a little emotional saying that it was too short at the time that he spent with his family. And I was just thinking, I don't know, third time around, to me, coaching is a young man's job a little bit. There's a reason I think most people have won their Super Bowl. Yeah. He's not an 87-year-old man. I mean, he's a, and the thing that people want to work their way around.

I can't imagine. But then it's 62 having the same juice that I have. But the restorative quality is that it's in Pittsburgh. And the people who want to work their way around. that you know they are provincial the Pittsburgh Steelers it's a great story and a reminder again I know he keeps saying it but I'm gonna say it one more time at least maybe I'll say it three times on this show and then next week I'll carry it over again and I'll tell everybody up in Santa Clara the same thing but as a

reminder they went to Art Rooney Pete Roselle did and said hey America's team you know the Cowboys have a certain shine and the Steelers do too and worth considering, you know, maybe the Steelers make sense as America's team. And Art Rooney said, no, no, no, we don't want any of that crap. We're Pittsburgh's team and that's good enough for us. I mean, yes, this is great news. This is fun and it's not the idea that it is not a change at all, obviously in football terms. He's a quarterback coach and that's the difference. But maintaining the importance or making a statement that we get at Pittsburgh, by putting in a Pittsburgh is great stuff,

and you're not going to hear me bad mouth that. Now, last thing before you go, very quickly, win-place show. The thing that I guess gets under my skin about the Belichick conversation is the assertion repeatedly or insinuation at minimum that Belichick is the greatest coach of all time. I mean, what about, did we forget about the Cleveland years? Did we forget about Tom Brady leaving and immediately winning a Super Bowl without him?

What else do we? The UNC experience? Who are? Oh, come on. Don't know. Come on me. Now, more importantly, go ahead. You can put him number one if you want to.

Win play show, the three best quarter, three best head coaches of the Super Bowl era. Go. The Super Bowl era? Yes. Okay. Because then you don't count like Paul Brown. Who Belichick always says is the best one. Stop.

about Paul Brown. Well, I think it's, I do think it's Belichick one. Okay. I think it's Andy Reid, too. Wow. It's probably Shula three. Sorry, Shula. Shula.

Oh, I'm telling our pal handsome Hank, you said that. Even he knows that Don Shula is the reason Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl. Yeah, but here's the thing. This is why I don't hold anything that happened post-Bradie against Belichick. You only have so long of a prime. I mean, 25 years. Like, he started his prime as maybe the best defensive coordinator of all time with the Giants. Like one of them, one of the best defensive minds.

That was 40 years ago. So, like, the prime ends. I think, which is why I'm a little worried about McCarthy. So I'm counting Belichick's prime as, you know, through 18. And Don Shula had a hell of a prime when he was in his prime. Okay, but I mean, not even the best coach of the 70s. Obviously, it's the Emperor Chasnoll. rings that's that he built the team what are we talking about he obviously wins the 70s over landry

and don schoole and john madden and people like that andy reed is a great shout i do have to say a couple more names for you to consider before you go one is um joe gibbs the only guy of all the people who he's the only cat people oh who who didn't see who who succeeded without hall of fame without a Hall of Fame quarterback. Joe Gibbs, that's who, three times over. Mark Rippin, Joe Thaisman and Doug Williams, that's who he, who steered his teams three times to Lombardy's. Here's the thing. Here's the thing with Belichick that always gets me when people bring up, you know, that he never did without Brady.

He didn't have a Hall of Fame Super Bowls. He had a quarterback that, like, eventually became a Hall of Fame quarterback, but was, you know, for the first one, maybe the 20th, you know, 15th, the 20th best quarterback. in the league and his defense won that Super Bowl, like, period. And then for 0-3-04, was not a top-five quarterback during those seasons. Peaking late, I would say, in 0-4 was kind of when he started to really become Brady. So to me, he won those Super Bowls without like a Hall of Fame quarter, not to mention what he did with the Giants.

His greatest move, it was, or among his greatest calls were when Drew Bledsoe gets them past the Steelers than Brady did in that title game was, everybody will say, so it's so, right? And Belichick go, no, no, we're going with Tom Brady. Also, Willie McGuinness. There's he'll tell you. Tom Brady's the answer to that question. But it does bring us full circle and a reset button back to a new Patriots area here

because Tom Brady was, in fact, the real deal. He was the real deal on his rookie deal, just like Drake May. So this little window that is now open for the Patriots should stay open. for at least the next three or five years. Thanks for the time either way. Forties and free agents, NFL Daily, all the rest of it. The great Greg Rosenthal, everybody. Thank you, Dave.

You're the best. There we go. Greg Rosenthal. Good stuff, I thought. What was your favorite part, Gino and Mike and Gino Fuences? Well, I took a note here and it says, my note is as follows. Verbatim right here.

I haven't written down right here. You can't really see it on an old schedule we have here. It says Dave is just like that. How old the memory? wait, you have to write it down? Yeah, I didn't want to forget. I know that like we had to like a lot of things going on. Yeah, it's always sucked my whole life.

You can't even talk shit to me about that. I agree with that. It's terrible. Whatever happened just happened three minutes ago. You can't remember it? Yeah, one more time. Okay, go ahead. Dave is just like Dan.

He asked Greg for his top three. Then he doesn't agree with him. Then argues to try to make Greg's choice his. Ultimately, Greg just caves him. I met him halfway on Andy Reed. What are you talking about? He was like, Don Shula, you know, the guy with the most wins in pro football history. Went to two Super Bowls.

No, no, no, no, no. It's got to be this guy. Right away, it became clear. This is a Chuck Null question. This is what he wanted. He just wanted to talk about it. I don't have to genuflect to somebody because they happen 30 or 40 years ago, as a lot of people do. What Dave wanted was his top three to be said and then somehow turned Greg into another top three for him.

So that way he really gets a top six, but it just appears that it's Greg's top three also. Okay. I'm not going to bring up, Noel. and I've done the Shula thing already. But, you know, I'm not the first person to point out. Don Shula's drafts around Dan Marino are the reason why Dan Marino never went back to a Super Bowl after his sophomore season. But Belichick, am I being too harsh on Bill here? Do you think he's the greatest coach of all time, given what we know about the entirety of his career,

not just the time he spent with Tom Brady? Yes, I do think. I mean, I'm not a Patriots fan, obviously. I'm a Dolphins fan, but the man won eight Super Bowls as a coach at some level. You want six as a head coat. I mean, all of those graphics have been at the bottom of every screen you've seen over the past week. I mean, how did he didn't get voted into the Hall of Fame on the first track? And if I deep dive any coach, I'm going to find some stinker years.

There's no way you're like the wide receiver coach of Cali Paul Tech or whatever. And you don't have some years that are stinkers. It's just the way it goes. Callie Paul. I made it up. Totally fictional, Callie Paul Tech. No, Calie Paul. She was really good on the Yukon Huskies.

it was their 04 title run. But yeah, I mean, it's not even so much for me about the Cleveland stuff and certainly not the UNC stuff. They're up on Mount Pius. This is a revelation to anybody that these guys are acting like human beings and exposing their own flaws. You know, same applies for the baseball Hall of Fame. Ultimately, this is cutting your nose to spite your face if you want the hall to thrive, If you're a voter, then not having the hit king in there.

Imagine you're a dad and your kid likes baseball. And he says, can we go to the Hall of Fame? And then you take him to the Hall of Fame. And he says, where's the guy who has the most home runs of all time? Well, he's not in here. He didn't make it. Like what? Okay.

Well, then who the most hits at least? No, he's also not in here. Like, okay. Roger Clemens isn't in there. What are we doing? Then why do you go to the Hall of Fame? What are you there to regard the people who behave themselves or told a line that the voters wanted you to vote? The Hall of Fame is now lesser because Bill Billichick's not in it until he gets in the Hall of Fame.

That's right. And same goes for Terrell Owens and a lot of those cats. But also, you know, it's murky. The Jimmy Johnsons and Stephen A's and Dan Orlovskys and everybody who's really just out of. This is the issue of our time. Nothing else to complain about in our society, but Bill Belichick getting a high hat or delayed by one year. Human beings, you know, the same people who say,

well, it's part of the game. You know, the human air, the players and the referees, which I also laugh at the idea that the referees, we have video evidence. There's no excuse for them not to be 100% correct at this point. But if we're going to say human error with the referees, than human error with the voters. It's an imperfect approach.

And I disagree with Bill Belichick not getting in on the first ballot. I push back on the notion that he's the greatest of all time. And I also am not going to get histrionic about him being delayed by a year because there's some reasons why you could get up on Mount Pius. I know Bill Cowher and a lot of other people say now, oh, the whole videotaping thing that was completely overblown. There are still some people who are relevant to pro football who say it is an issue and it should have been allowed. And if this is a penalty for that and deflate gate and whatever else, so be it.

It's not the end of the world. Everybody's settled down. Bill Belichick and everybody who gets into the Hall of Fame has been genuflected to for the last 25 or 40 years. Are we sure we definitely need to Gild the Lilly and celebrate these guys some more? There's no one else in society that deserves a backslap. No, the people who've been celebrated and are multi-millionaires and have been celebrated as such for the last, like I say, three or four decades, let's celebrate them a little bit more. And if we don't get a chance to, I'm going to be mad! It's a little silly.

In 1999, Andy Reid went 5 and 11 as the Eagles had told. In 2005, he went 6 and 10. 2007 he went 8 and 8, 9, 6 and 1 in 2008. Let's see how many of those stinkers he had. Everybody has stinkers is what I'm getting at. Oh, and then his final year, he went 4 and 12 before he got fired. It is noteworthy, and Gino points it out.

That's absolutely right that if you do it in different football situations, I think you deserve, you know, I think that adds to the resume in a way that Belichick can't. He can't say, well, look at what I did. I know it wasn't just New England. It was also, it was also what? Working under Bill Parcells? My era was so successful that I didn't leave. I don't think that's an argument against anybody.

I was doing so well I didn't just leave. Andy Reid deserves the credit for taking two separate teams in the Super Bowl, even though one of those teams, you know, only one of those teams won. But the same is the case with Don Shulow who took the Colts to numerous NFL NFL championships. Or was it AFL? No, AFL championships, right? No.

Not numerous. But yeah, yeah, I take your point. They lost it. Don't get, don't lose your point down in the weeds there. Exactly. But then he took the dolphins to the Super Bowl and they won to, you know. Well, that was the thing with him, as a matter of fact, is there was getting to be, if you go back and read up on the era, the thing was that Don Chula was kind of the Atlanta Braves of the 90s at some point. Like, is this guy like, he's real good, but is he ever going to get over the hump? It was a little Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen for a head coach and pro football. Boy, his teams are always great and he always gets them real close. But are they ever going to win one? Finally, they did 14 to 7 thanks to no thanks I guess to Garrow

your premium in the left-handed. He went to six total Super Bowls, right? That's my math. He went to the five with the dolphins. Six total? And one with-well, he wins 17, loses 19, so that's two. Then he wins the two with the seven and eight with the dolphin. So that's four. He loses. Yeah, right. So he loses.

Right. That's right. That's exactly right. Yeah, six. Six he loses 24 to three. Yes, go ahead, Mike. No, no, no. I'm just, I remember me and you had talked about, I think I talked about on Last Football America, how the Dolphins don't get enough crap for being such a bad team. All of this was ancient history.

Yeah, yeah. But he just reminded me when he said it that the Dolphins had won two Super Bowls, I found out this week that that Dolphins Super Bowl team, the 72 perfect season, was actually the team that in all of NFL history, their opponents had the lowest winning percentage of all time. Oh, yeah. Yeah, by a wide distance. So another thing that, because Dolphins,

fans love to say that, oh, well, the perfect season, you know, all this stuff. That way less impressive now that I see that stat, at least to me. Well, I'll defend it to some extent. It's an undefeated season. No one's ever done it. Obviously, it's something to hold up. I did see Nick Wright, though, on Levitard earlier this week, saying that the dolphins are merely representative of your little corner, your little region of Football

America, which is to say, soft. that the turquoise and the orange and the style of play all adds up to them being recognizable to the residents. I've always laughed at the notion that good defense. People always say, like, this, Steelers defense or this, whatever, it really suits the blue-collar vibes of the fan base and everything else, as though Dolphins fans wouldn't enjoy a dominant defense. They'd be like, I can't relate to this.

This makes no sense to me. Get it out of here. That's silly. But also, Nick Wright knows enough history to remember Larry Zonka and that Nick Bonacani and the no-name defense was the highlight. It certainly wasn't Bob Greasy. They talked about a ground and pound team. They were plenty physical.

So I don't exactly get that. But I do agree with your point, Mike, that the dolphins have sort of slipped through the cracks, sort of like the chiefs were until Patrick Mahon. homes happened. I used to kind of quietly feel a little bit bad about them because they are one of the tent pole franchises the chiefs are and always have been. But it was weird that, you know, people would say, oh, the chiefs aren't one of the embarrassing franchises. They're not one of the teams that would be terrible to root for. But yeah, they would be because you're steeped in important history, but you haven't won a Super Bowl since Super Bowl four. You haven't been to a

Super Bowl in, you know, 50 years or whatever until they finally got over the hump. The dolphins are getting close to that now. You know, we always talk about now the Cowboys haven't been to a Super Bowl since 1994, which is pathetic. But the Dolphins have been worse for them. And again, a tent pole franchise because of the Shula years combined with Dan Marino's deeds. Yeah, I'm trying to figure out, like, what's going to be, I guess if they finish this year

with no quarterback or if they go into it with Quinn Ewers, because obviously I don't see Tula, like reinventing himself. So I figure if you start getting a couple top five picks, that's the thing. They always like to meander around. They find a way, you know, you know this. They find a way to be, you know, nine and eight, an eight and nine, you know, seven and ten. You're right in the middle there. Just bad enough to get a mid-round pick, I mean, just good enough to get a mid-round pick, just bad enough, you know, right there.

Because that's the worst kind of thing. You're going through it too, Dave, with the Pittsburgh Steelers. You never have a top draft pick. You're always like, oh, let's try to find a gem mid-first round because for some reason we think eight and eight's okay. We're right there. Yeah, but my team at least makes the playoffs most of the time. Yeah, well, you got the Browns and you got, and you got a burrow-brom-en distinction is that.

I were in the same spot. I'm agreeing. If you were in your division, you wouldn't even sniff the playoffs. If you'd be blowing you guys out every year, you wouldn't even know. You're right. Yeah. You're right.

I can't argue that. My division, my division has Lamar Jackson. Not the same thing. Not the same. Clearly. But Lamar has more MVP's, you know. Yeah. Oh, you know.

By the way, one last thing on one last thing about the 72 dolphins. that is a funny little quirk in NFL history. You're right about their overall schedule. I also submit what if style, what the if. If the Steelers, if the amygdala reception doesn't happen, the title game, the AFC title game is in Miami. Why was it then in Pittsburgh? The dolphins were undefeated.

because back then they used to rotate home field advantage among the division winners, which is super weird. But it was warm in Pittsburgh for the AFC title game, and so that suited the dolphins a little bit, but not too warm. Had the game been in Miami, it was warm and a fast track, which wouldn't have suited their ground and pound against the high-flying Oakland Raiders with Snake Stabler and Cliff Branch. I submit that the Raiders would have gone to the Super Bowl against Washington. year and would have ended the undefeated season for the Dolphins had the immaculate reception hadn't happened. But that's a weird little quirk in history. Anyway, bring us up to speed on modern times and the coaching carousel as it now stands Gina Fuentes. Well, I've got, sometimes the coaching carousel makes you laugh. And there are three teams in particular this time around, which are just

having, we just just had some of the funniest storylines you can imagine. Which one of these is the funniest to you guys? Bill's ownership emotionally fires McDermott after a playoff. loss and says they need a coaching change. The owner then throws the coaching staff under the bus in a press conference and promotes his faulty GM to president. Then turns around, goes

back to the coaching staff that he just put down and threw under the bus and hires and promotes, I should say, the highest ranking part of the coaching staff to head coach. So that's number one. That's the bills. So you're just laying these out for us and we have to say which is funniest? Which is the funniest one that we think is the funniest?

Because that one I thought was hilarious. Then you got Aaron Glenn, who finishes the season, three and 14, I think it was. He had only fired one coach during the season. It was Wilkes, the defensive coordinator, where three weeks left to go. But then goes and watches film to analyze the season, comes back three weeks later, appalled. Decides, I'm going to fire eight more coaches, including every position of coach on defense and their assistant coaches. And then fires the offensive coordinator, the quarterback's coach, and I believe the – who am I missing? There's one more offensive coach, and now all of the top tier coaches are taken off the market

because, as we know, the coaching carousel started three weeks ago. So that's, you know, the Jets being the Jets. And then finally, this one might be the funniest one. Brown's ownership interviews a number of candidates to be their new head coach after firing Kevin Stafansky. The one condition to all of these coaches, though, they want to keep Schwartz on as defensive coordinator, which ends up costing them a bunch of head coaches, a bunch of coaches drop out of the running. They then hire Greg Roman to be their new. head coach and Jim Schwartz upset that he didn't get promoted ends up saying I want out I should

have been the head coach and so they don't even get to keep Jim Schwartz almost perfect Todd Monkin not Greg Roman but I'm picking up what you're laying down I'm not going from yeah I do love that the Browns move is to hire the I mean that I talk about the incest of the AFC North all the time I mean the the Ravens are in fact the Cleveland Browns dressed in purple and playing in Charm City. I don't know what that team actually is up in Cleveland, but it ain't the Browns. They moved 25 years ago away from you guys. And the Browns, after flailing about, hired the, not the head coach even, the coordinator of the Ravens to be their head coach. And that chases off Jim Schwartz, who somehow that message didn't break through. Hey, what we want is to keep Jim

Schwartz is our DC. While Jim Schwartz says, if you do that, I'm leaving. And then they do it. And now surprise that Jim Shores wants to leave. Why don't they talk to each other? That's what makes it the funniest thing. It's just like you constantly hear about, oh, dysfunction in Cleveland. There was a report that came out that Monkin who was actually shit talking the front office saying what a mess it was when you would see other coaches before the game. Then they hire that guy. Then the guy says, well, I wasn't going to be here.

If you don't maybe head coach, then he ends up leaving. You don't talk. Yeah, like send a text. Just talk to each other. Yeah, get on a zoomer. You know, like somehow how did not know that this is a thing? You could have let him walk. and then early hired other guys.

They would have brought their guy. Either way, you got Miles Garrett. He's doing all the work anyway. You know, what's the difference? Well, it's funny to say that because the thing that strikes me and has with Todd Munkin, and I've said it in past conversations, there are a lot of people who really spend a lot of time

on the X's and O's and they'll tell you that Munkin is doing some clever stuff. But, man, this one has that stink of, boy, the situation was awfully good and awfully hard to screw up in Baltimore. When you start out with Lamar Jackson, Mark Andrews is a real good tight end. I've fallen off a little bit, but when Monkin arrives three years ago. And you have Derek Henry behind him. The last couple of years, and didn't equal much playoff success, obviously some nice, gaudy numbers in stretches, but not consistently.

Again, even though you had Lamar Jackson, this is the guy you're sure. He has no, there's not a ton of evidence. His stop before that was in college, Munkin. So, I mean, like you say, it's the Browns being the Browns. The Jets are a funny bunch. It seems like they're kind of, Woody feels like a victim of his own past failures, that he can't, he's already, he's aware now that people have turned him into a punchline. And Aaron Glenn, based on what we saw, just one season in, should kind of,

mean that he gets fired, but they are now aware it's a bad look at how we just keep cycling through coaches, so we better stick with this guy. But this was the time to get out from under Aaron Glenn. But then he goes and fires everyone. Right. Right. Well, yeah, exactly. And then the other one, like we talked about, the unforced error of Pagula doing this and now unnecessarily making the bills seem a lot less attractive. But what it amounts to is, if you just pull back and look at the final result. This is entirely about maybe the guy who they said was sitting in on some of those interviews, Josh Allen, maybe just said to Bagula like, it's over with McDermott. I don't like him. Because that is kind of, if you look at it, that's what it amounts to, right?

Everybody's there. Joe Brady, so it wasn't like, we got to move on from this era. No, no, we're going to keep the offensive coordinator. Just get the guy who's allegedly the defensive whiz, who's the head coach and hasn't gotten us to the Super Bowl yet, despite having a superhero quarterback, right? That's the math. It has to be because everything else stayed the same. Okay, so bottom line is, with all due respect to you, Jets and Bills,

the Browns remain our funniest team in pro football. All right, I like talking. Everybody's talking about the Seahawks and Patriots, all the halves, and that was good times with Greg Rosenthal to do that, and like I say, we'll be talking plenty of Patriots and Seahawks. On the other side of the weekend, when I'll be

in Santa Clara, California, bouncing off the players and coaches. To start, the week and we'll be on media row and all the rest of it looking forward to doing all of that and we'll also make sure we keep an eye on the have-not teams the browns and jets included and all the other teams that didn't make it to super bowl 60 until the other side of the weekend our first one without football it hurts but we're here for you thanks so much my fellow football americans it's been a thin slice of heaven