The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - The Consequential Countdown: Lions, Lamar, and the 49ers' Path Home

Episode Date: December 26, 2025

Lions out. Lamar on the brink. Ben Johnson in the drivers seat. And if the 49ers run the table, they'll play home games the rest of the way. Yes, it's that time in the football season where every little game matters a ton. Top seeds to top draft picks. Jonathan Zaslow joins Dave Dameshek on this episode of Football America! They go through the most consequential games of the upcoming weekend. Everything is in play. (Photo by Zach Bolinger/AP) Rundown: -Christmas Complaints -Lamar on the brink -DK's mistake -Top Games of the week AUDIO Football America! is available wherever you listen to podcasts. Leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/football-america/id1831757512 Follow us: Dave Dameshek: https://x.com/dameshek Jonathan Zaslow: https://x.com/ZaslowShow Host: Dave Dameshek Guests: Jonathan Zaslow Team: Gino Fuentes, Mike Fuentes Director: Danny Benitez Senior Producers: Gino Fuentes, Mike Fuentes Executive Producer: Bradley Campbell Arizona Cardinals, Atlanta Falcons, Baltimore Ravens, Buffalo Bills, Carolina Panthers, Chicago Bears, Cincinnati Bengals, Cleveland Browns, Dallas Cowboys, Denver Broncos, Detroit Lions, Green Bay Packers, Houston Texans, Indianapolis Colts, Jacksonville Jaguars, Kansas City Chiefs, Las Vegas Raiders, Los Angeles Chargers, Los Angeles Rams, Miami Dolphins, Minnesota Vikings, New England Patriots, New Orleans Saints, New York Giants, New York Jets, Philadelphia Eagles, Pittsburgh Steelers, San Francisco 49ers, Seattle Seahawks, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Tennessee Titans, Washington Commanders Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Thank you. Hi and hello and happy holidays, my fellow football Americans. Welcome to NFL Week 17. Welcome to round two of the college football playoff. Welcome to Football America. We're presented as ever by our pals over there at Draft Kings. Draft Kings, the crown is your every Christmas belatedly. There's nothing worse, though, than somebody who wishes you Merry Christmas

or any evident holiday as soon as the holiday has come and gone. And it's still happy holidays time because we still have the New Year's celebration. But there's nothing worse than seeing a commercial for Christmas the day after Christmas. We're 364 days away from it. I don't want to get Scroogey right out of the gate, though. We have to get you right for NFL Week 17 at minimum. If we have time, we'll talk about round two. The U in Ohio State is the first one up in round two of the college football.

football playoff. Travis Kelsey's career appears to be nearing an end. Bo Nix and those Denver Broncos just getting started. So too is Caleb Williams and Drake May, and we have to talk about all of those cats. Lamar Jackson may or may not be out there. It's tracking that he is not going to be out there in Lambo on Saturday night. Critical for the AFC North, D.K. Metcalf, we know is not going to be out there in Cleveland on Sunday. We'll see how relevant that is based on what happens in that game between the Packers and Ravens, much hash to be settled. We have Jonathan Zaslo on the way. As a matter of fact, I think he's showing up as we speak here very quickly. Happy holidays to you, Gino Fuentes. I like the spirit of it, fella. You're boozing

already, as you should be here on the day after Christmas. Good for you. What are you drinking, friend? Bailey's and coffee. Okay, okay. I should get me one of them. I should have I should be bending the elbow along with you. There's Soup Campbell up there. Where are you? The Pacific Northwest somewhere, right, Portland? Yeah, we're in the coast range of Oregon right now. You've been listening to him, I hope, the last 2448 hours.

He has not taken off a second for the holidays, it seems. Jonathan Zaslow's show 2.0 is rolling. You know him, obviously, on The Levitard show and all over ESPN. That's what he was doing. I think you just left doing that. to join us here. It's Jonathan Zaslo. What's the poop fella? How are you? Hello, Dave. I'm good. Merry Christmas. Happy holidays to everyone. Good to see you guys. I'm glad to hang out and talk some football. It's a pleasure. You know, the Super Bowl kicks off in, I don't know what,

like six weeks, seven weeks from now. And then everybody always does the thing when they refer to the Academy Awards. They're like, this is the Super Bowl of movies. But I think Christmas is the Super Bowl of society, right? So it's like there's a letdown today because We just, society just had its whole Super Bowl celebration. Mine was pretty good. I hope yours was too, Zaz. You were working for most of it. Yeah, I mean, you don't really honor in your home the Christmas holiday, do you? We don't honor the Christmas holiday. It does not get any honor in the Zasloon mansion. We celebrate eight crazy nights of Hanukkah. And as a result, since we don't honor the Christmas holiday, I have to pay that Jewish tax. The Jewish taxes, I had to work five hours on

Christmas last night on ESPN radio. I have to cover for all my Christmas celebrating brethren and co-workers. That's called the Jewish tax. So we were celebrating Christmas on the network last night. Did you eat well? Did I eat well? Did you do Chinese food? I mean, talk about the Jewish tradition on Christmas. That is it. Yeah, I had I had falafel. All right. You know what falafel is? That is not that is not a normal Christmas meal, but we had some great falafel in the Zaslo Mansion fridge, and I decided you know what, let's get after it. So we had falafel and pita. You put some that Zizi sauce on it. That's a great meal. All right. We have a lot of games we have to dig in on Zaz week 17 critical ones at that. A lot of people are lamenting that there aren't some great races at the bottom chunk

of both conferences to see who can sneak in for that seven seed. More important, though, is who gets the one seed, and those races are active and ongoing, and so we're going to make our picks there. I want to tell you this, mine was a pretty magical Christmas. We went, and on the 22nd, we went, because the weather allowed for it out here in Southern California, we went and rode the coasters at six flags, and look who I found on the bench sitting next to me. We were waiting, the little ones were doing some kitty rides, and we were just hanging out on the bench, and look who came along and sat next to me. it's it's jesus is that jesus it's lego jesus it's lego jesus now well i don't know i think so one in

the i'm pretty sure it's that jesus here's the here's the question i have for you you guys right out of the gate he sat there he was sitting there and i was like i guess he should come with me was it wrong for me to to take him off the the amusement park bench or was that theft Ho, ho, ho. Hi, and hello, my fellow football Americans, we have officially arrived at the holiday season, and you know what that means. It's Dave saying, ho, ho. Also, family food and football. The holidays aren't about stuffy get-togethers, dinner parties or work parties you have to be at. They're about those unexpected side quests and spending time with the ones you love. And if you're lucky enough, doing so at a bowl game. I'm going to the Rose Bowl this year to watch my Indiana Hoosiers. Tiss Miller Time. Tiss, always a great indicator that it's the holiday season. Miller is the original light beer. It's the taste you can depend on and has been trusted by beer lovers everywhere for 50 years thanks to its clean, finish, simple ingredients, and iconic golden color.

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can pick up some miller light pretty much anywhere they sell beer tis miller time see tis and please always remember to celebrate responsibly miller brewing company milwaukee wisconsin Tiss 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. Hi and hello, my fellow football American. Jural pal Dave here. Let me tell you, when my first daughter was born, everything changed, and it was doubly so when my son came around. Then I had a third kid.

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Ride the upside in partnership with Draft King's Pick-6. the crown is yours no answers someone that left for you to take that's how I take it that was the only that was just the first of my celebrity sightings around Christmas

I also was out shopping a couple of days ago and saw in the same mall at the same time within the span of like 90 seconds I saw Breck and Meyer the skateboarder kid from Clueless and then I saw lead singer of Kiss Paul Stanley. Really?

Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. And then on Christmas Eve, I saw out and about doing some shopping, John C. Riley, which is the best sighting, Jonathan Zazelah? Well, I mean, it's definitely, no offense, Breck and Meyer. It's not Breck and Meyer.

Okay. I don't know if I would recognize Breck and Meyer these days. John C. Riley is a pretty good one. I think I go John C. Riley. I told him, listen, it's the holidays. I'm not one to get. in the way of celebrities when they're out and about in the wild. But I did make an exception. And I said, you're the best, man. I said, you're the best. Merry Christmas to you. That's it.

I didn't think that was a violation of his time too much. But I do think that the people who are expressing hate towards Christmas, people are like, I'm sick of it all. These are the same people who hate the Beatles. Like, if you don't like the Beatles, then you just don't like, you know, like then you don't like music because the Beatles did all kinds of things. If you don't Christmas, then you don't like anything because you can do whatever you want. It's the holiday after all, right? You know what? Let me tell you something that bothers me around Christmas time, all right? We as a society have gotten all caught up in the whole, no, no, no, not Merry Christmas, happy holidays. You want to be inclusive to everyone, right? I'm a Jewish person. I don't celebrate

Christmas. I never have celebrated Christmas. If I'm out and about and you say Merry Christmas to me, I say thank you. Merry Christmas right back. What's wrong with telling me, Mary? You don't know what holiday I celebrate. The majority of people celebrate Christmas. And it literally is it's the thought that counts. Okay. You're not aware that I don't celebrate Christmas.

You're still wishing me to have a, it means have a great holiday. You say Merry Christmas me. I'm going to say, thank you so much. Merry Christmas right back. I don't need you to say happy holidays. There's nothing wrong with telling us. everybody out there on Christmas, Christmas Eve, whatever. There's nothing wrong with wishing people a Merry Christmas. Of course not. But now that we have moved past Christmas and now New Year's is all

that stands between us and, well, not us because now that I'm in Southern California, it's not so dire. But I used to always say winter was great until January 2nd, then darkness, you know, emotionally, not just physically when you look up early. But now it's happy holidays, because Christmas is in the rearview mirror. So now we've got to go happy holidays for the next few days here. What I do have to say before it gets away from us here, I don't love the rolling discussion. I find it a little tired at this point of is diehard a Christmas movie. I was past that by the end of the aughts, I think, in this 21st century.

more vexing to me remains though to be Dave the hypocrite here people want to talk about is diehard a Christmas movie by the way obviously it is about as Christmas running through it so obviously that's settled hash so too is this but I have to belly ache about it once again we threw on Zaz you have the little ones at home did did you watch Santa Claus is coming to town when they were when they were still little you know that's the origin story of Santa with the red beard and everything. That stuff's not appointment television again because Christmas doesn't get honored in the Zaslo Mansion, but we've seen all of that stuff, you know, like Christmas story, of course, what a movie. So they, it's not any kind of tradition, but yeah, we've seen all the,

the Santa Claus, all the Christmas stuff, sure. Well, that's good. That's a good movie. What's a bad one is Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer, which starts out with the birth of Rudolph and his red nose. And I've always gone in on Donor, his father, because like they're, you know, Rudolph is born in the cave and immediately like, well, we'll call him Rudolph, says Donner, they declare. And then his nose turns bright and Donner panics immediately. The baby has been born like 41 seconds ago and immediately like, oh no, oh, no, what are we going to do? Santa can't see this red nose. And what I realized is the crime of Donner is that he's a cuck. He's pathetic, but really it's about Santa who is clear.

a jerk of a boss you know like uh and then sure enough santa shadows the door like this this special intimate moment for the by the boss man showing up i have to check out this this new reindeer to see if his nose turns red he's like well he'll never fly in my sleigh not what that knows and then he launches into a song about himself then he like i am old chris cringle i'm the king of jingle like what hey we're trying to celebrate the the birth of our first child fats? What are you doing? And denouncing him. And then, is it any wonder that all the other kids wouldn't let him play their reindeer games? Not after the big guy, what was belly aching about him a minute into his life? Of course, the children are in Santa. And now the whole story plays out,

and now it's a bad night out on Christmas night. And now what are we going to do? I just wish Rudolph would have said, screw. You shouldn't, you shouldn't amount off to me when you did. But what's done is done. how Christmas is canceled for everybody. So Donner moves down in the rankings, and Santa is number one on the biggest jerk of Christmas, 2025, how say you's asked. I mean, you put up a legitimate argument there, you know, but Hans Gruber, I mean, number one, Hans Gruber,

number one, worst guy on Christmas. I mean, come on, you know. Get me my detonators and find me my time. Plain. I mean, that's it. And he tricked. He tricked John McLean, all right, when they were upstairs together and then told his guys to shoot the glass. So John McLean's got to walk on the glass on the shards of glass. And of course, he shot Takagi in the head and also killed Ellis. I mean, Ellis was just trying to have a great Christmas party. I don't think I don't let Ellis off the hook. Don't let Alice off the hook. A little bit of yayo under the nose when John McLean arrived. All right. He's just trying to. have a good time. But I hear you. You don't want to let Ellis off the hook. I get it. Why is Takagi so cool? Here's a good question. Why is Takagi so cool with Ellis, though? Like, I mean, Takagi's running the ship here. And his right-hand man is a Cokehead. And like,

because McLean says to him, you missed the spot. Takagi's standing right there. He hears the thing. Takagi doesn't care. You're cool with this? That this is, this is the face. Because clearly, that's how Ellis perceives himself. He is the face of Takagi tech, industries, whatever. By the way, next time you watch it, which I guess won't be until next Christmas time, everybody within the sound

of my voice, take note, Takagi is an arch, I assume he was the architect of the facility that was under construction that he and Hans Gruber look at just minutes before Takagi takes one in the head.

When they're looking at, looking at it, the people who built SoFi stole the design of Takagi. Look at the, look at it. It is exactly Sofi Stadium. Take away the name Sofi, call it Takagi Dome. Wow, I will check that out. By the way, Gino, what a hat you're wearing today. Look at that hat.

That's a beautiful looking hat. I'm a company man, says. Excellent. But first things first, Lamar Jackson, like I said, doubtful for Saturday night. Now some soap opera drama now making the pages in Baltimore and beyond. Lamar and John Harbaugh tracking towards a divorce. There's some whispers. Now loud, now people just saying it out loud, Lamar isn't trying hard enough.

He spends too much time playing video games late into the night. The Ravens are changing practice schedules to accommodate Lamar. they're scheduling them later in the afternoon. Like we've talked about here on the show, it does feel to me that Lamar is in need of that Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, mid-career adjustment to his style of play. The results are in. He is a spectacular talent. The Ravens are generally pretty good so long as he's in the lineup.

The issue, number one is he's not in the lineup as consistently as he needs to be. And obviously, they're not making the Super Bowl this year. They still have a chance, though. And we don't know they've won the AFC North. It only seems like they're going to. And we were talking just before we got going here about Trevor Lawrence. All the doubters, they've got out the window now. Trevor Lawrence has arrived.

See, everybody, take it back. Has he? It's only week 17 in the regular season. He's got to deliver come January for this to be a full turnaround. So what do you think? think about, first of all, I guess issue number one is Lamar Jackson. He's not going to be out there on Saturday night. And then D.K. Metcalf is not going to be out there on Sunday for the Steelers. I'm throwing a lot at you here. I guess let's jump right to the end here with the

DK Metcalf thing, because I think that's maybe the biggest story going right now is fan rights versus player rights or, you know, touching a touch in a fan. The fan held a press conference on Friday morning saying, I said nothing racist, which is, I mean, pathetic that the guy showed up in a suit and with his hat on backwards and all of that. But that was what D.K. Metcalf led with was like, well, he was racial slurs. And apparently there's no evidence of that happening. So where do you come down on the two games suspension and all the rest of it? Well, we'll start with D.K., right? So there's, there's no reason D.K. should have been in that situation because it's not like it's not like the NBA where you're on the bench

and you got the fan right behind you saying something and it's all right there and it's all happening in real time. You're D.K. Metcalf, you're a player on an NFL sideline. You have to make a real effort to go over and have an interaction with a fan who is sitting in the stands even if they're in the front row. There's no reason for D.K. Metcalf to be anywhere near the fan, especially once he hears that the fan is saying stupid stuff.

Like, go, hey, the NBA player loves telling security and kicking fans out of the building. Like, D.K., if this guy is actually saying the things that you're saying, he's saying, and if he's been accused of stalking you in the past when you were in Seattle, hey, go tell the security. They'll get rid of him immediately. There's no reason that he needed to be anywhere near that fan. So I think D.K. got lucky that it was just two games. Heck, if there were four games left in the season, maybe he would have gotten four games instead of two games, you know? So I think he's lucky that he got just the two games. Well, here's the other things as the part that people are

skipping right past is the Steelers got lucky because had the onfield refs seen that in real time, they would have tossed DK Metcalf. You can't be touching fans during the game. He would have gotten yanked right there. I think for the people arguing two games is too severe, which I agree with. It's too many. But I think it's sort of the opposite of the Jalen Carter thing that started this season when he spit on, who did he spit on Dak Prescott? Man. Sheesh. Boy, long time ago, since the football season started. But yes, Jalen Carter, they said, like, time served. You know, he got kicked out of that game,

so that's kind of like suspending him for a game. And I think that that's why D.K. Metcalf got two games, not one, because they should have kicked them out, and they understand that, that they missed it in real time. And in that case, if they had, I think the Steelers maybe lose that game as tight as it was against the Lions. And now we're having very different conversations

about Detroit and Pittsburgh right now. So I think on that level, at least, the Steelers dodged a bullet to not have D.K. Metcalfe yanked out. But the other element of it, too, is the whole premise of the reason the Steelers had to get away from George Pickens was because he wasn't behaving himself in-game and otherwise. I mean, if this does lead to, I mean, listen, if, you know, Snoop Huntley and company losing Lambo, it's all moot. But if the Ravens win that game, and then the Steelers have the all-time, like, you cannot lose to the Cleveland Browns. In this spot, you just absolutely can't

lose this game. But now we have, we don't have the only wide receiver on a pro football team who actually receives passes available to you. If you lose that game, and now you go to week 18 against the Ravens without D.K. Matcalfe once again. And now you lose to Baltimore. What's the difference between George Pickens and D.K. Metcalfe, selfish behavior, right? I'm not to say they're going to cut him or anything like that, but isn't it kind of Robin Peter to pay Paul ultimately? No, that would be quite the story where you get rid of George Pickens because you're afraid of his behavior and you bring aboard a guy

who, if the scenario that you just laid out, plays out that way, cost you your season while George Pickens, you know, by all intents and purposes, has been perfectly well-behaved with the Dallas-Callel. this year. As far as the fan in Detroit. Well, reasonably well behaved. I mean, he's had a couple of little dust-ups. But yeah, he's had a couple of little things going on. Yeah, he had to, he had a, he had a thing where he had to have a conversation with Brian Schottenheimer afterwards because he was a little out of bounds. But listen, obviously, diva wide receivers are not a new thing in pro football. So, and by the way, the other element of it is that Mike Tomlin's whole thing

is he deals with ne'er-do-wells better than anybody else, but somehow he couldn't deal with George Pickens. Very strange. And as far as the fan goes, I don't know how the fan hasn't been banned. I really don't. Whether he said a racial slur

or, you know, whatever he... Whatever you said, there's no reason for you to be wearing a stupid blue wig. I'm stunned that he has not been banned. It's such loser behavior. Again, I don't care what he said. I don't get the idea of going to a sporting event and you're going to have a back and forth,

just because you have great seats and you're going to have back and forth with a player, I'd be so embarrassed. I'd be so ashamed to be caught on television having some type of back and forth with a professional athlete. I'm a grown man. I don't know how this fan has not been banned.

It is such loser behavior. I hate it. Zaz, that is a perfect comment, though. Just have the professional athlete just pull a Westbrook. I mean, he gets fans kicked out for saying something as anodyne as a man. West Brick. It's like, just have a guy, hey, this guy's been following me.

It's kind of creepy. Can we just get this guy out of here? It was really... Let the security guards completely remove them. And then I would be remiss. I would be remiss if right now I don't say, remember to like and subscribe to Football America on all socials and Football America YouTube. Sub Camel. And by the way, let me also add how worthless

the security guards were there. There were two security guards in their red security guards shirts watching the whole thing unfold doing absolutely nothing. There was also a police officer She was standing right there as well doing nothing. There's an altercation with a player, a high profile player, and a fan and a police officer is just watching it doing nothing.

You're the guy in between. Yeah. So worthless. The people who are apologizing for D.K. Metcalf are saying their lead argument is like he didn't hit him that hard. He didn't really catch him. First of all, he grabs this civilian who's a complete pain in the ass and an embarrassment. as a grown-up, you know, I completely agree with all that. But, okay, what are you doing in the middle of a game that your team really needs to win, D.K. Metcalf, and you're grabbing a fan in the stands and pulling them down towards you,

and then in one month, so you pull them towards you, and then you try to give him the right, which is an interesting move. That's a good street fight move, come to think of it. Pull the guy towards you and then let go and then return, give him back exchange. Well, that's a hockey fight move. Yeah, right. You give them the jab with the hand that you're holding on to the jersey. Yeah. Yeah. But it's okay, so he misses him a little bit. And because he doesn't knock his, turn his lights out, the crime is a little more forgivable. How about this? Don't attempt assault on a player in a game that your team really needs to have.

Either way, if this week eight team game in Pittsburgh has high stakes, namely the AFC North on the line for both sides, I kind of feel like second place, but not third place, second place in this case, you're fired. John Harbaugh, people are talking about is, I mean, it sounds like people are ready to run him out of Charmed City. But if the Steelers, it's hard to conceive of and the Steelers aren't going to fire him, however you, whatever terminology you apply, like they decided to part ways or they didn't pick up his contract beyond 2026. And so he's decided to leave the Steelers, whatever. If the Steelers lose to the Browns and then lose to the Ravens, I think that is not just in play. I think that is what's going to end up happening. I just hope that it's a

moot point, like I say. Should we start picking some games here now? Yes. All right, let's do it. One more question, though, for you. I contradict myself before we start doing that, doing our picks here. It's the thing I talk about endlessly. The math does not allow for Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen and Joe Burrow to all win Lombardy trophies. Do you think first question as far as that goes, Travis Kelsey, I think has one more game left and then it's on to podcasting and marriage and all the rest of it. Do you think Patrick Mahomes is done winning Lombardis? Does he get one more in his career?

It's funny you bring that up. So it's, yeah, I talked about this. And I think there's a better chance of him not winning again. then winning. So, yeah, I think my answer is I don't think he's going to win again. And it's just, it's why the whole, you know, he's on his way to catch him, Brady, seven, seven.

We talk about seven, you know? Like, he's already won three Super Bowls, which is an incredible amount of Super Bowls. Brady's one of one, man. You know, like I keep hearing this, oh, you know, he got the ACL injury now. Remember Brady got the ACL? And then he went to his second,

of fame career of his of his career it's like yeah that that's one guy ever it's not happening again the way brady went about i i don't think mohomes wins again i don't it's interesting because there's something about the eye test that that endured through all of the lombardy's tom brady one which is it doesn't add up because he's never he was never the most dynamic player on the field and it felt like belichick had a big hand in it and all of that and then he watches off belichick and does it in one season, goes down to Tampa, vanquishes Aaron Rogers. But I think we want to be witness in the moment to be, every generation thinks their guys the best player, right? Everybody always wants that. And that is true right now. And so if Patrick Mahomes wins that

Super Bowl in February, he would be held up right now as the greatest of all time. And I also think if somehow Aaron Rogers ran the table, I don't think he's going to, but if he did and won the Super Bowl somehow. He would then ascend in the rankings to like the second or third best quarterback in the history of people as well. We're desperate to apply those stakes to everyone's career. The issue is, I mean, Fat Phil Rivers is sort of, he's a great story right now, but he's also a harbinger for all these guys in their prime right now, which is, all of you guys are not getting Lombardi trophies. Marino, you talk about one of one, and there was Fran Tarkington and Jim Kelly, but somehow Dan Marino is by far in a way the singular figure of like, boy, sad,

sad thing for all of his greatness, he never got that one Lombardi. Guess what? That's going to be true for Lamar Jackson and or Josh Allen and or Joe Burrow. Do you think C.J. Stroud's never getting one? Brock Purdy, Trevor Lawrence. What about if Matthew Stafford does it? That's one less Lombardi, then all those names I just ran off for you have available to them. It's going to be really weird, bottom line, in about a decade from now, how many of these guys, you say, oh, you got to give them a gold jacket. Are we still going to be singing that song if these guys don't get Lombardy's? I think that is the cut line for how many, everybody can't make the Hall of Fame. So that is going to be the applied standard. Is it not? It's not going to be based on

their statistics ultimately. I think it's completely reasonable. what you're saying. It is interesting, though, because a lot of the quarterbacks that we've lost over the last few years, meaning Los Angeles died, but the ones that aren't playing anymore, you know, they all did, the great quarterbacks were not playing more. They all did win Super Bowls, right? Where it's Brady and it's both Manning's, and it's Rothless Burger, and it's soon to be Flacco, you know, like these guys, they're Breeze, these guys' careers ended, but they all won.

Rivers now came back. He was one of them who didn't win, but he came back. he's not going to win still. So it feels like Rivers is the only one of that group of this past generation that did not win anything. But I think you're right. It's too many guys out here that need to win a Super Bowl that just aren't going to be playing long enough to make sure, or at least not be in their prime long enough to make sure that they wind up retiring with a Super Bowl. And even just Jackson, Allen Burrow, my guess would be at least two of those.

those three and their careers without a Super Bowl win. It's wild. And the guy we also didn't mention yet is Justin Herbert. He's another character who I think people sort of said, well, eventually he'll get one. The math does not math out for all these guys. Right. Well, right, exactly. I mean, and the guy's most likely to get to the Super Bowl this year.

I stand by it. We'll see if I'm right in about a month from now. Caleb Williams, Bo Nix, and Drake May are. the most likely in their second seasons to get to the Super Bowl based on 21st century history. Here's one more thing for you. My longstanding idea that now I've heard dozens and dozens and dozens of people say but as far as I know, I'm the first person to offer up this idea, which is the loser bowl. Let's replace the Pro Bowl.

Nobody cares about that. In fact, we have a loser bowl available here in NFL Week 17. it's the Giants versus the Raiders, both with two wins. Whoever loses this game wins in all likelihood the first overall draft pick. In springtime, why don't we do this every year? Why don't we just have the two worst teams play each other? And the winner gets the first overall pick in the draft. When do they play it?

Wildcard weekend? Yeah. Well, no, no, no. We play it. I appreciate you taking this seriously enough to try and pin me down on some answers here. We could do it Wild Card Weekend, but Wild Card Weekend. But Wild Card Weekend, we've now updated that. That is going to be punctuated going forward if you missed it, Zaz,

by the number one seed going to the podium and announcing, as soon as the final wildcard game wraps and announcing, we choose for the divisional round. Our opponent will be Jacksonville or San Francisco or whoever you choose. That's going to jazz that up quite a bit. I think it's the week in between the championship games and the Super Bowl. That's when the Pro Bowl is played, and instead, now we're going to have a loser bowl. And of course, the loser bowl, it's the winner of the loser bowl gets the number one pick, right?

That's right. That's right. And we have the worst band, the worst marching band in the country every year gets to play it. And who's the halftime show? Cree. It's like Nickelback or Creed or the halftime show. They do a supergroup. Yeah, they supergroup it, something like that.

They play it out on a burnt out junior high field. like they deserve. This is going to be a great idea once we get it. In the meantime, we'll have to make do with Raiders and Giants. But let's jump in now, shall we, to these week 17 games. And Eagles, Bills will start there. It is the NFL countdown, the most consequential games, who's going to win them? And by how much Eagles Bills, home team Buffalo, laying a point and a half, 43 and a half, is the total. Zaz. How do you think this one plays out? Yeah, I'm not trusting the Eagles right about now. The bills still have a lot to play for.

Yes, they're still alive for the division, but they really want to jump from six to five in the AFC wild card because that's a major difference. It's a difference between playing potentially at Jacksonville or potentially playing at Pittsburgh. So the bills desperately want to wind up jumping up to a number five. The Eagles have a ton to play for as well still. But I just don't trust this Eagles team right now on the road in this spot.

I like Buffalo minus a point and a half. I'm going the exact opposite of you. I'm going Philly, 31, 27, to be exact about it. The Eagles have somehow, with the rolling football conversation that we're a part of and love to perpetuate, somehow in this long NFL season, the reigning champs have slipped through the cracks and everybody is ignoring them. They are a viable candidate to get to the Super Bowl once again. again this year. Take a look at the NFC. They are going to have a tough putt to get there because

obviously, almost certainly they're going to have to win three games, you know, two road games to get there and all of that. But I do think against this Bill's defense, there's a chance to get further right with Jalen Hertz and company. And I do think, I disagree with you that I don't like this Eagles team right now. I do think there are hints that they're starting to turn it around ever so slightly. And the bills are just completely suspended into a space that they otherwise would not occupy were it not for their superhero quarterback. He's got a bum foot. That all adds up to Philadelphia winning this one for me. And what your larger point is, it's fascinating that the five seat, whoever that is, is going to be favored in Pittsburgh or Baltimore, right? I mean,

whoever that is. Chargers, Bills, Texans, maybe the Jags, probably not, but whoever that is, is going to be the favorite team playing the AFC North Champ. I would imagine Buffalo would be favored by a touchdown in that game. Wow. I can see them favored by six points. I mean, that stands to reason given the hammering they put on the Steelers, but again, that's not settled hash yet. Speaking of which, Steelers at their ancient, that rival, whatever word you want to apply here hammer v nail uh typically browns plus three at the time of this recording which is a slap in the face to the steelers that they're only catching three against chadour

company 34 and a half is your total again this is a pro football game everybody uh 34 and a half is your total how say use ass it's you know with such a low total you would like to take the points all right it means not going to be a ton of points scored so you don't you don't want to bet on there being a lot of separation. But man, like, I have to trust that the Steelers come through in this big spot. You're at the Browns. I understand the Browns have a great defense. Miles Garrity is still chasing the sack record.

I have to believe Pittsburgh does what needs to be done. I'll take the Steelers minus three on the road. Well, this one is fraught if you're looking to put something down on it right now. I mean, I would encourage you to wait out the Saturday night game in Lambo, and we'll give you our pick on that one in a second here. But if the Packers take care of Baltimore for the Steelers, then it's likely Mason Rudolph under center. And that means Miles Garrett breaking the sack record

against the guy he tried to murder in front of a nation. Oh, yes. Assault. Yeah. I mean, he swung a helmet at him. And people want to talk about like, you're getting a little histrionic, Dave. If that helmet had hit that guy in a bare head, like, I mean, maybe not dead, whatever. Like, if his, the NFL dodged such a bullet on that. Yeah.

Imagine if you, if Miles Garrett, one of the biggest stars in the league just cracked open a quarterback's head for a. His head would have been cracked open. I know this is grim stuff the day after Christmas, but that's what Miles Garrett did. But imagine the completion of that circle. Somehow that's not just to serve. That's a great storyline. I'm rooting for that now, Dave. Not the head being cracked open part, but Miles Garrett trying to.

get the record against Mason Rudolph. I'm into that storyline. Yes, I hope Mason Rudolph has enough dignity to if Miles Garrett gets close to him to take off Miles Garrett's helmet and hit him in the head with it, then that would complete the circle. Tough game to pick in the here and now, if it does come down to it with all the marbles, because the one thing Pittsburgh does not want is to have to beat Baltimore again in a must win to win the division. I mean, it's not exactly, I talk about the curse of supposed to Zaz that when you're the team that's supposed to win, that applies extra pressure to you. Without the D.K. Metcalf, I don't even know that you would rightly say, well, the Steelers obviously are they're obviously supposed to win this game. I don't know.

I mean, they don't have wide receivers who catch passes besides D.K. Medcaf. And like we say, he's not going to be on the field there. So let's just hope if you're, rooting for black and gold in week 17 that the packers take care of business that's the main event for you jaggs colts fatville rivers and company underdogs plus six and a half 48 and a half against the rising jacksonville jaguars how say use ass i've watched every snap of the colts the last two weeks i i love this philip river story i love watching him out there old man rivers trying as hard as to throw the ball down the field just duck after duck.

I think the Colts, I think this is a live home dog. I do. I know that's, it could be shocking to people. I think Philip Rivers, I think he could pull out a win, not just covering here. So give me the Colts plus six at home. Boy, yeah, it would sort of be justice served cold, revenge. Remember when Carson Wentz and the Colts were about to win the division, all they had to do or get into the playoffs at minimum was just go down and beat the bum,

Jags. It was an afterthought of a game. And then the Jags actually did knock off. Carson Wentz and the Colts and knocked them out of the postseason. In a way, at least, this would knock the Jags out of it, but it would end any chance that they have of getting the number one seat or getting the division crown. Or I guess that would put the Texans in the driver's seat at minimum to get that and a significant difference in the path to get to the Super Bowl at that point. hear you, man. The Colts on the money line are intriguing. The Jags have had very little resistance, it feels like. Even beating the Broncos, which is the one game I thought they were going to drop, I said six weeks ago, if nobody's paying attention, Jacksonville has the breeziest path to the division title, to a division title of any of the contenders. And they've made me look smart there. Even going out to Denver last week, who told you that one, Gino? Did I tell you that? I saw you on social media, by the way, Gino. saying like, no one saw this coming.

On this very show, I told you the Jags were going to beat the Broncos, man. Yeah, I mean, but you weren't serious. Come on. Between us. I think this is an upset special. Zaz and I both give this one our stamp of approval. Colts at home, Fat Phil Rivers. It is funny, too, that he's this fat old man and his natural throwing motion is just so fundamentally wonky

that it's perfect. It makes them look extra old out there. I love it. Yeah, it's great, except that it's embarrassing Danny quarterback in his prime. Like, this guy is a viable option? What does that make me? I should be, I'm red in the face is what I am. Seahawks, Panthers, Panthers plus seven,

your frontrunner in the mighty NFC South against the frontrunner in all the NFC right now at the time of this recording. Panthers at home plus 7, 42 and a half is your total. Zaz, how say you? Huge game for both these teams. The Panthers, if the Buccaneers lose their game, which is the Dolphins, the Panthers, they clinch the NFC South this weekend. And this way, they don't have to care about a matchup in week 18

at the Buccaneers for the division. The Seahawks, on the other hand, number one, obviously, the NFC is totally in play. I like the Seahawks here. I think the line at 7 makes sense to me. I know the Panthers are going to be a trendy pick, plus seven at home. I like the Seahawks, though.

I've got a question, a follow-up question for you that I think is important, maybe a higher-end, bigger philosophical question. We talk about the Panthers, we talk about the Jaguars, and I'm curious to know

there are things, we have big cats, but why aren't there any big dogs? Yeah, there's no like pit bulls, you know? There's no team named the pit bulls or... Well, you know, there are,

You're right, because we have lions and we have tigers and even variations of tigers. We even go deep enough in Bengal tigers. It's not enough to just be a garden variety tiger. I think it's because I think there are certain beasts on the planet Earth that are too loathsome to name your team after. Like you couldn't be the Detroit tapeworms. Like that would be people, nobody would get behind that, you know? And there's certain bugs. Like, you couldn't be the most.

mosquitoes, like people wouldn't, people wouldn't cheer for you if you were that. I don't think you could be the Dobermans. I think people, people are scared of them. You certainly couldn't be the German Shepherds, right? Could it be the Rottweilers? The big dogs are not as lovable as their cat brethren. Is that a sufficient answer for you? I think so. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good question. That's a very good question. Underrated. What other kind of dogs are there that are super big? What are those ones that look like a horse they're so big you know the great danes yeah oh great dames marmaduke it's like marmaduke's not scary yeah we can't we got we only got we only got seven seven seven seven minutes 30 seconds we got get these game picks going all right i say seahawks i say as i've said all season long if you like a team

to win straight up then you like them up to seven and uh the seahawks are minus seven so i'm taking the seahawks here bears niners harkins for an old man like me matchups back in the 80s and January. The Niners in this one, laying three, 52 and a half. Two feel good stories. And I said the Eagles are somehow flying under the radar. So too are the 49ers. That's who you got here. I think the Niners are going to finish first in the NFC. That happens if they win their final two games because next week they host Seattle, which would mean that literally the Super Bowl goes through San Francisco. They would have home field advantage throughout the entire postseason and the Super Bowl. I don't think that has ever happened before. You've had Tampa.

I win a home Super Bowl. They had to play on the road, though. You've had the Rams play a home Super Bowl. I believe they had to play on the road as well. San Francisco has an opportunity to have every postseason game, including the Super Bowl, at home. They look as good, especially offensively, as anyone right now. I think the Bears are a really good team, but I don't think they're good enough to go on the road and win this game on Sunday night. I like San Francisco laying the three. Yeah, I like San Francisco as well. I mean, was there a cooler move all season, I mean, this millennium, then throwing that deep shot that Caleb Williams did an OT and before the ball hit its peak in the air, he had his hands in his pockets. I thought

that was pretty cool stuff. For a guy who's taking a lot of slings and arrows for the painted fingernails and crying after games and everything, I think that offsets everything to this point in his career. I'm a big fan of Caleb Williams. I'm not surprised that, like I understand. I understand, understand he doesn't he's not exactly yet what people think he's going to be but it says a lot to me in a game like last week where he's not so great the first three quarters but then the fourth quarter makes all the plays makes all the big throws that means something to me i'd rather see that out of a young quarterback you know just his second year than a quarterback who plays really well in the first three quarters in year number two and then can't do anything very in the

fourth quarter so i like what i see yeah and on the other side of things again you know the Niners slept on, I announced that I was, I was off of the Niners as my NFC representative in Super Bowl 60 when Nick Bosa got hurt. And then Fred Warner got hurt on top of it. And I thought, well, that's it for that team. How far can they really take this thing? And Bob Salas still somehow has that defense, you know, keeping its head above water. And as you say, Kyle Shanahan once again proving that he can make everyone this side of Trey Lance work. I wonder what it means for Mack Jones in 26 if he has some people trying to figure out how to get him onto their roster. I mean, and Sam Darnold, same thing, coming at, learning at the Nia KOC last year and Danny

Dimes until he got hurt, man, you get around these QB whisperers. I think, again, like we've talked about previously Zaz, this year, I think that there's a case to be made that the coach is more important than the guy at the trigger. Look at Ben Johnson, what he's done for Caleb Williams in year two there. Ravens, Packers, Packers laying four and a half on the Lamar Jackson doubtful news, 40 and a half is your total on this one. Jordan Love practicing, but we don't know if he's going to be out there. Malik Willis did look pretty good last week, though.

How say you on this one? Yeah, believe it or not, I think the Ravens wind up keeping this game close, even if it's Snoop Huntley. I'm not in love with the Packers right now. I think the Ravens can keep this game close. I don't like them winning it, but again, the total is just 39.5, so you're probably getting a low scoring game here. So I like having the points in my back pocket.

Give me the Ravens plus four and a half. I think the Ravens, the big story was coming off of Sunday night football was why didn't they continue to ride Derek Henry in a game that they would have won had they just continued to ride Derek Henry. I think they do not make that mistake again here. What we saw from the Packers last week and, you know, I guess they can survive without Micah Parsons. That doesn't mean that that's the end of the story here.

They are without their critical defense of peace now. going forward. I think the Ravens go in there and get this one and force the Steelers hand at least to win in Cleveland and maybe take it back to the banks of the Three Rivers for week 18. Next up, Texans Chargers. Another huge one in the AFC Zaz Chargers. Laying a point and a half, 39 and a half is your total. I think this will be one of those rare sofi games in which there are more fans of the Chargers than the Road Team here. I don't know how many Texans fans exist out in the wild or certainly in L.A. Either way, I'll say you on this one. I like the Texans. Even though it's just a point and a half, I like the Texans to win this

game. Chargers' offensive line, a little bit beat up here. This should be a defensive battle, should be a low-scoring game here. Texans are obviously surging of late. I like Houston in this spot. Give me the points. I think the Texans are perhaps, if it's not the Jags, the Texans might be the best team in the AFC. This is the mistake a lot of people keep making. And I hear people, I think it's the talking heads that perpetuate this in the rolling football discussion, which is like, Josh Allen's got to win the Super Bowl this year, right? If Lamar's not going to be there and Patrick Mahomes, this is it. That headline, that storyline has consumed all of the oxygen and it ignores how good the Broncos are

and how good the Patriots are and how good the Texans are. I think the Texans, as I say, are playing the best. of anybody in the AFC, their obstacle is going to be having to win three road games unless the Jags stumble somewhere along the way. I think the Texans go in there and take care of this team. That pass rush against a debilitated offensive line, as good a job as Harbaugh and Company have done in getting around the lack of those two tackles getting injured. I think it catches up with them against this mighty pass rush from the Texans. Texans win this one straight up And with only a minute to go, Zaz, we don't have to bother with the Rams and Falcons.

I think the Rams are going to win that one, right? We're not going to debate that, are we? We're not going to debate that. Okay. So they're going to win that one. And instead, let's talk about Tom Brady. Your thoughts on Tom Brady, because this is another storyline that is in front of me all the time, whether I care about it or not, spoiler alert.

I don't care about it at all. Tom Brady is getting better as a broadcaster. Yeah. I'll say you. Yeah, I think he is. Great. Yeah, he should. He does it every week.

He should get better every year. Yeah, hold on a second. Are there people out there who think that when you've never done something before, that maybe a year or two later, after doing it every single week, you'll be better at the thing you've never done when you first started it? Is that like what we're talking? Yes, of course. Of course he's gotten better.

And he's going to probably wind up being pretty good. So yeah, I'm with you there, man. He's fine. Yeah. You started him at the time. top of the mountain and he got exposed, but yes, he's getting a little bit better. One last thing, Zaz, is we do, when you were eating falafel, we do our tradition on Christmas Eve is breakfast for dinner. You can only have breakfast for dinner for the rest of your life or dinner

for breakfast. Which one are you choosing? Oh, breakfast for dinner. Come on. Yeah, like I can't wake up in the morning and have steak and potatoes. Like that's, that's too heavy first thing in the morning. But French toast, pancakes, bagels in the evening, you could stay. taught me I love bagels and locks. I'll have that for dinner, no problem. Delicious, a delicious effort from you, Jonathan Zaslo, Zaslo Show 2.0, Dan Lebitard show, ESPN Radio, getting your right for college football and beyond. Gino Fuentes, drunk. Look at him. You can barely keep his head up there. He's hammered. Soup Campbell, going to go make himself some super. I don't know what. Thanks for joining us here. Remember, subscribe on YouTube and wherever you find your podcast. We appreciate it.

on the other side of NFL week 17 to try and make some sense of it for you and get you right for round two of the college football playoff. Until then, thanks so much and happy holidays. Not Merry Christmas anymore, but Merry Christmas for yesterday to Zaslow's earlier point. We'll talk to you soon. Until then, thanks so much, my fellow football Americans. It's been a thin slice of heaven. You know, I'm going to be.