The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - The Most Apocalyptic Ending In Football History | Hour 3 (feat. Amin Elhassan)

Episode Date: September 21, 2026

" I remember when this show used to be a proper radio show." We're goin' rapid fire through Dan's Top 10 but have to pause before his final Observation to get to some OTHER Observations. That's right, Amin is here to run us through his Weekend Observations, including a tough day for Aaron Rodgers, a coach who belongs in The Odyssey, and Marvin Tarantino. Then, finally... Dan's No. 1 (-8) Football Observation. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

My favorite part of the football season is the confidence everybody has before it kickoff. Zaslo already knows how the game is going to end. Tony has studied every possible matchup and Chris Cody is convinced his fantasy team is unbeatable. Then the game starts, everything immediately goes off the rails and suddenly nobody remembers making any of those predictions. That's why a legendary game day starts with an ice cold Miller light. Whether I'm at a tailgate, watching with friends, or settling in for a full Saturday of college football. Miller Light is the beer I can depend on. It's crisp, refreshing, and has a clean finish that hits perfectly during a hot South Florida game day.

Miller Light is the original light beer with great taste, and beer lovers have trusted it for more than 50 years. Make game day legendary. Go to Miller Lite.com slash Dan to find delivery options near you, or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. Game time is Miller Time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 96 caps. calories in 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. You are listening to the Dan Levitar show, in partnership with the Drafkin Sports app,

now live in all 50 states. John Talty is a better journalist and reporter than Pablo Torre. He has a story now that is bigger than any that Pablo Torre has ever done. He is the journalistic get to get today because he is the person who has reported that Lane Kiffin, when he was at Alabama would walk into bars and hit on women with the fake name of Joey Freshwater. And I wanted to talk to him about this because I find this story to be wonderful and amazing. He's got a book out. It's called Lane Being Lane, the story of Lane Kiffin, College Football's Agent of Chaos. It's coming out September 15th. He's also written a best-selling book

on Nick Saban, and he's a college sports reporter for CBS Sports. So thank you for joining us, John. I've got a number of different questions about your book and the excerpt in Vanity Fair. But my first question is, tell me how you got the information about Joey Freshwater. Yeah. So it starts really. So I covered Alabama for years for this website called AL.com. And so I was there for the Elaine Kiffran era in Tuscaloosa. And so there were stories that I had heard way back then. And even at the time, we had kind of joked about this idea of writing a story called the Ballad of Joey Freshwater. And And what was tough is that nobody wanted to put their name on it, right? And of course, sometimes we have to use anonymous sources.

But I wanted at least somebody to say, yes, he actually has used that name. Yes, there's a reason why this is kind of bubbled up on message boards and things like that. So I had always had it kind of as something, a little bit of a white whale, frankly, to try to get to the bottom of this. And, you know, writing a book about that guy gave me an opportunity to. And so, you know, talk to people who were there at that time, talk to people who were, you know, worked at that bar. There's one bar in particular called Ennis Free that he frequented and tried to, you know, get to the bottom of it.

And, you know, as you mentioned, it was in a Vanity Fair excerpt. It's in the book. And there's a lot more to it. But to me, it's just, I mean, it's just so Lane Kiffin, right? It's just a hilarious name. And just the idea of Lane Kiffin, who at the time was one of the most famous people in the state of Alabama, even just as an offensive coordinator,

that he would try to actually tell people his name is Joey Freshwater. It's just perfectly Lane Kiffin. When you say there's a lot more to it, what more is there to it? Well, this is actually not in the book because someone told me this after I had to turn in the book. So take it with a grain of salt. But someone did tell me that the Joey Freshwater nickname originates from Lane Kiffin had a roommate or friend in college who had that as their name on a fake ID way back in the day. And evidently, Lane thought it was a hilarious name. It was like, I'm going to use that one day.

So that was the story that I got after the book. So I didn't make it into the book. But just the general behavior, I think, in Tustalusa is really what I was getting at there. Just him, you know, going out and about. Like, it's something that you heard stories about, but I think sometimes you don't know the full extent of it until you write a book. And you realize that there are stories like this back in Oakland, in Tennessee, Oxford, kind of everywhere he's been, there's some sort of off-the-field shenanigans, I guess you can put it, that have followed him. And I think the totality of it almost surprised me a little bit. Did Lane have a drinking problem or a fun problem?

I think you could argue both. But certainly he has spoken publicly about the drinking problem. We detail in the book, you know, some of the steps that he took to try to, you know, get around it. But I will tell you, Dan, that, you know, from talking to people who have known him for years, friends, all these different people, they would argue the fun and, you know, the chasing of women. and things like that could be his greater issue relative to the drinking stuff. But, you know, he's a guy who I think binds being, you know, safe and stable, kind of boring. Like he likes to chase.

He likes to kind of go after things. And, you know, sometimes that was, you know, through drinking. And other times it's, you know, through chasing people. But he's someone that that's just kind of a core dynamic, I think, to who he is. How much did Saban hate him? Well, it's funny, Dan, they play nice on game day now, right? If you are only seeing how they are together on college day, you would think they're like best friends. But when they work together, it was not like that at all.

And you have two people that are just vastly different personalities, as you know, Dan. And the way I kind of describe it is that you've got Nick Sabin, who with the process, you know, very, this is the way that we do things. It's worked. We're going to keep doing it. And then you have Wayne Kiffin, who, especially when he got to Alabama, it's almost like a toddler where he's just asking, why, why, why, why are we doing this? Why can't we do it my way? Why is that happening? And, you know, that deeply frustrated Savin at that time. And so I think they realized that there was value in the working relationship.

Those guys won a national championship together. You know, he was able to have success with Blake Sims and Jake Coker and J.1 Hertz as quarterback. So Wayne was able to help them evolve the offense. But, I mean, it was very obvious to everyone who worked there that they did not get along. Pretty much every practice, there was some scene where Nick was yelling at Lane. Lane was rolling his eyes, which made Saban even more mad. And then, I mean, listen, the best way to put it is there's been one guy in the history of the sport who's been fired in between the national semifinal and the national championship. And that's Lane Kiffin.

And I think that speaks to just how frustrated Nick Saban was by the end of I just need to get out of the Wayne Kiffin business. What do you think Lane will like least about your book? I think some of it's already out there. I could tell you, at least from what I've heard through the grapevine, did not enjoy the Vanity Fair excerpt, not shocked. And I can just tell you, like, you know, we had discussions about whether he was going to participate in this book. And some of that is included in the book. Ultimately, you know, didn't sit down with me, but I talked to a lot of people around him.

But I do know everything that we are basically talking about on this interview are the things that he is most sensitive about and most concerned about. And I think part of the reason why Dan is that he's done a lot of work. And let's be real, the people around him have done a lot of work to try to rehabilitate his reputation, to try to rehabilitate his image. And a lot of people have bought it. He's been selling this idea of being a more evolved, wiser, better version of himself. And I think there's truth to that. But there's also a lot of bodies that have been left along the way.

A lot of skeletons in that cause. This is Lane rehabbing his image. That's what you just said. That's right. Right now we're in the middle of Lane rehabbing his image. His attempts to, I would argue, is not going super well at this moment. But Dan, go back a little bit. Think about, and I don't blame anybody who participated.

I think Ryan McGee is a great guy. But, I mean, the documentary that they did on E60 a year ago, all of the stuff that he was talking about, about I needed Oxford more than Oxford needed me, even just, again, think about how college game day handled that interview with him over the weekend. You would have no idea that there's a lot of controversy surrounding this guy. So he's got people in his corner that are very powerful that are pushing this narrative as hard as they can. But other people, maybe like you and me, can see through some of that

and realize that there's a lot more to it than just this idea that because Link Giffin's 51 and sober, that he is evolved and changed in a lot of ways. What's your favorite detail in the book? I think there's a lot of them. But like personally for me, when I wanted to write this book, I wanted to understand him better and what made him tick. And we can look at the end results of everywhere he leaves, it ends horribly, right? But I want to know what's driving that. And so for me personally, the stuff about his childhood, high school, college, that informed a lot of how I view Lane Kiffin, the relationship between his mom and his dad.

Like, I wanted that stuff I've never seen written about anywhere. And I think when you read that stuff and, you know, him idolizing his dad, some of the strained relationship between him and his mom. I'm like, I think it helps you understand who Lane Kiffin is better. So, I mean, that stuff's not as juicy as a Vanity Fair excerpt. But to me, if you're trying to understand who is Lane Kiffin, that helps me understand it. And it helped me understand why he does what he does, why he's chasing things, why he can never really just be happy in one place.

That's the stuff that I think I'm most proud of. Why do you think Lane Kiffin would have any interest at all in image rehabilitation? Isn't his lucrative lane, so to speak, as college football's renegade? Because deep down, he doesn't really want to be that. And so I'll tell you guys right now, like, he's kind of embracing this idea of being the villain. But he doesn't want to be the villain. He still thinks he is the hero. And he always thinks, if I can just win enough, one day I'll be the hero.

And big to understand Lane, and again, talking to a lot of people who have known him over the years, like, in this current situation, he's going to feel like he's the victim rather than the instigator. He's going to feel like people are attacking him rather than I stepped in. And that's why this is all happening. So he does not see himself deep down as the villain. He might say publicly he's the villain. Certainly it's a great motivational tactic with a team of young college guys. Like everyone hates us. It's us against the world.

We've seen coaches do that for years now. And he's smart enough to use that. But does he want to be the villain? No, he doesn't. He doesn't deep down want to be the heel. He wants to be the hero of the story. And so he's smart enough to catch it out right now. But he thinks if I can win a national championship at LSU one day, everyone's going to love me again.

And whether that happens, we'll see. But that's what he wants and that's what he believes can happen. My favorite part of the football season is the confidence everybody has before kickoff. Zazlo already knows how the game is going to end. Tony has studied every possible matchup and Chris Cody is convinced his fantasy team is unbeatable. Then the game starts, everything immediately goes off the rails. And suddenly nobody remembers. making any of those predictions. That's why a legendary game day starts with an ice-cold Miller

Light, whether I'm at a tailgate, watching with friends, or settling in for a full Saturday of college football. Miller Light is the beer I can depend on. It's crisp, refreshing, and has a clean finish that hits perfectly during a hot South Florida game day. Miller Light is the original light beer with great taste, and beer lovers have trusted it for more than 50 years. Make Game Day legendary. Go to millerlight.com slash Dan to find delivery options near you, or you can pick up some Miller light pretty much anywhere they sell beer. Game time

is Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. Hey, it's Roy, and I want to talk to you about blinds. I had one set of blinds that drove me crazy. Every single morning, one little gap with letting a laser beam of sunlight that hit

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You are an infant. You have nobody to me. I literally put together a freaking stage for your toenail. Nobody. I am your career right now, pal. Look at me. No. I am your career.

No. Great Corey. You have messed with me, David. And now you're messing with me. And I'm more dangerous, pal. This is the DeLyther show. I do think that if he wins at LSU, the narrative will change. And it'll be looked at it as, like, cool things that he does.

But if he doesn't want to be the villain, as he considered not speaking. Because on college game day, he's telling Pat McAfee, we're the most hated guys. We're the most hated guys and everything that he said during that broadcast, even stuff that was taped at halftime, leans into being the villain. In fact, the SEC is now exploring having a vote on kicking LSU out of the SEC, citing what he said off Mike about pro players. So maybe he should stop projecting being the villain if he doesn't want to be. The alternative title for this book was he just can't help himself.

To your point, Mike. And I'll give you a great example. I had this meeting with Lane Kiffin. and his agent, Jimmy Sexton, who people believe is, you know, one of if not the most powerful person in college force, you know, talking about this book and whether he'd participate or not. And I mean, it was just a very bizarre meeting in every way. And afterwards, you know, Jimmy and I were just kind of making small talk. I was like, that was weird, man. Like what happened there?

And Jimmy was like, yeah, we had a plan. And Lane basically immediately went off script. So that's the thing. Like, he's got very smart people around him. And yet he just can't help himself. He's going to do what he wants to do. So that thing that you mentioned, Mike, like, you can. to see, and I can just see the wheels turning in his head, like, I've got this great joke.

I probably shouldn't say it, but I really want to say it. So he says it, and they get to put in a lawsuit. Like, that's just perfectly Lane Kiffin in every way, where he just can't help himself from saying the joke, and then it ends up getting in trouble. We're talking to John Talti, who previously wrote the Wall Street Journal bestselling book on Nick Sabin. This book on Lane Kiffin comes out September 15th, which coincidentally happens to be when they play a game against Ole Miss. And we've been talking about SEC, the meeting that's going to

take place this coming week with the presidents of member conference teams. What is your view? You plan for this book to be released on September 15th. I assume only because there was a game between Ole Miss and LSU. Now you've got the perfect storm of publicity. Tell me about that. It's been wild. That's for sure. Yeah, we did target that date for a reason. And, you know, it led to me having to write this book as kind of a sprint, I mean, to try to get it done to be able to hit that date. But even I could not have predicted that the SEC would sue Lane Kiffin before my book came out. Like that's like even of all the wild things that Lane Kiffin might do, I did not imagine that as one of the scenarios. And so, you know, we've got some important things happening.

I'm here in Birmingham. We've got court court hearing today in Birmingham. The SEC's federal suit against Lane Kiffin and LSU. The first hearing of that is today. Thursday, there'll be that discussion around the idea of, do we have the power and do we want to kick LSU out of the conference? I think the odds of that happening have decreased, certainly since LSU, you kind of laid down at Sword and said, we're not going to roster those players. But I do think that there are potential penalties still to come for LSU, assuming this hearing goes the way the SEC wants. And so we'll see what that might look like for Wayne Kiffin and LSU moving forward.

But it is honestly unbelievable, guys. I was like, this was already, I think, going to be in some ways the game of the season. There's so much hurt feelings and emotion built into this Ole Miss LSU game. And Wayne Kiffin's returned to Oxford for the first time without even adding everything that's happened over the last three weeks. So it's going to be an absolute circus. And I don't know if you guys have been to Oxford before, but like that town is not big enough to handle what is about to come its way here in about a week and a half. How many people did you talk to for your book? How long did you spend on your book?

Yeah, I think it ended up being 125 plus. I mean, it might be 130 or something like that. I forget the exact number. But I know it's at least 125 plus. And so it's interesting, Dan, the way that I answered that question is like, in some ways, I've been working on it for years. And I have because I wrote two previous books, one on Nick Saban, one called The Price, which was about kind of the impact of NIL on coaches and people like that.

And Wayne Kiffin was a part of both of those books. And Elaine Kiffin's stuff is like what people resonated with the most. So I've been kind of having stuff put off to the side, working on a Lane Kiffin book for a couple of years now, you know, pitched my book editor more than a year ago on it. And he was like, I don't know if it's ready yet. I don't know if people want the Link Kiffin book quite yet. And then with the way that he left, Ole Miss, going to LSU, that's when it's like, okay, it's time for Link Kippen. So really, I mean, January, February through July was just all in on trying to get this thing finished

and do as much reporting as I can to be able to have it out, you know, for you guys here in September. It's coming out on an audiobook? Yep, audiobook, E, Kindle, all that stuff. I read the shit out of this book with my ears. Are you reading it? It's not me. They got somebody else to do it. Yeah, I don't know.

They always say, like, you have the first route of refusal, but I always think they don't actually want you to do it. I guess, you know, maybe one day they'll let me do it. Most surprising thing in your book that isn't the family-related stuff you just mentioned. I think the thing that I did not know that I think is very interesting is that we, We think about how he left Tennessee and famously go into USC. People are burning mattresses and this whole thing. It's a big part of, I think, honestly, Lane Kiffin's kind of whole story.

What I did not know, I've never seen reported anywhere else that's in the book is that Tennessee was actually building a case to potentially fire Lane Kiffin with cause. So we always think about again, oh, what could have been if he had stayed at Tennessee? They could have won big. They were already building a case with cause to potentially fire Lane Kiffin at Tennessee, which has never been. been reported before. And it's because of honestly some off-field behavior. There was a story in the book in which a prominent Tennessee booster saw Lane Kiffin out at a bar with another university employee, which led to an investigation. There was NCAA violations that were starting to happen. There was some drinking stuff they were looking into. So there was a lot happening there.

So I always, again, my little brother went to Tennessee. There's always that, oh, man, what could have happened of Lane Kiffin at state? And I think what's so interesting is that he might not have had a choice to stay ultimately if that investigation and some of that stuff that they were looking into proved to be worthy enough to fire him. The Vanity Fair excerpt quotes Nick Saban is saying some form of keep him away from the sorority girls. What can you tell us that's relevant about the womanizing? I think as one friend of his told me, I think it defines him like nothing else. And this person told me it's his Achilles seal. Now, Link Kiffin would, of course, push back on that.

His representatives did push back on that narrative in the book. And so I want to make sure for all legal reasons to note that. But this is something that you go back to Oakland Raiders, Tennessee, Alabama, FAU, Ole Miss, everywhere he's been, it has come up in some capacity. And what I can tell you is I was talking to one athletic director who was involved in hiring with Link Kiffin. And this person said, like, you got to choose what you're okay with. Some guys are jerks. Some guys cheat on their wives. Some guys are alcoholics.

Some guys abused drugs. All that really matters is if you can win. And so with Wayne Kiffin, you had to accept that this carruising and womanizing thing was part of the deal. And you either accepted that and we're okay with that as long as he won or you weren't. And there's a reason why Wayne Kiffin's not going to get certain jobs. There's a reason why he is toxic to some programs. And others don't care and they're fine with it. And he has won enough to continue to get those kind of opportunities.

So it's a big part of his story. He would say that that's not true. But you go to enough college talents. It's not hard to find people who have Wayne Kiffin's stories, whether at bars or other things that he was doing. And it's the piece of the puzzle, Dan, that I think if he can ever fully figure out, he could be a national championship winning coach. But I think it's the thing that people feel like is potentially holding him back.

because when it comes to call and plays on Saturdays, there's no one better. I mean, he is truly an offensive savant, but he's got all this other stuff kind of swirling around him that sometimes makes you question, like, is he fully locked in? Is he doing what he needs to be to be the best coach in college football? Last question. You mentioned that the meeting with him and Sexton was bizarre. Why? How? Yeah.

I mean, I think it's everything that we're talking about right now is some of the stuff that I think was part of that, you know, discussion. It's also just, you know, you got Lane Kiffin, you got Jimmy Sexton. We're at this tiny little table in Sandest in Florida, it's the SEC Spring meetings. We're off to the corner, but you know, people are walking by, like, what is going on there between you guys? And, you know, I think a lot of the meeting, like, y'all kind of keep between us. But the one thing that I just remember sitting down and Lane says to me, it's like, I promise you this isn't an ambush.

And I was like, sure it feels like an ambush. Like, what are we doing here? You guys got me in this tiny little table. you're surrounding me and you're just pressing me on what's in the book and what am I going to do and how am I going to handle all these different situations. So, you know, Lane is, again, he's very, very, very conscious of his image. That might sound crazy, given what the opinion of Lane Kiffin might be nationwide. But he cares a lot about how he's portrayed. And anything that represents any sort of negative portrayal, he takes incredibly personally and gets very upset about.

And so Vanity Fair, this book in general, I can tell you guys, like, he's been hammering people that I talk to for this book, asking them, what did you tell John? Why did you talk to him? All these different things, because he's very concerned about what's in this book. John Talty has done an excellent job here with the reporting. The Vanity Fair article gives you the condensed version. But if you want the whole thing, the new book on Lane Kiffin is coming out September 15th. It is called Lane Being Lane, the story of Lane Kiffin, college football's agent of chaos, though the ballad of Joey Fred's. Westwater would have been a better title.

Would have sold less books because people wouldn't have known that it was about Lane, but a better title. Thank you, John. Appreciate the time. Appreciate the information. Thanks, guys. Appreciate it. Tony,

you know that moment at a party or at tailgate where everything just sort of clicks? I know it well. It's usually when I show up. Everybody goes crazy. Yeah, you usually take all the credit for it. But it's because Tony usually walks in with Quarev. Walking like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Quervo is a thing that turns hanging out into this is the night. It has that effect. on people. It does. You usually take the credit for it, but again, it's the Cuervo effect. It's like that moment in a big game where everyone in the crowd just starts standing up, hooting and hollering. Keep it quervo.

Keep it quervo, baby. Ah, folks, listen up. You wouldn't want an offense alignment to play wide receiver, would you? No, you wouldn't. You need the right person. You need the right equipment for the job. That applies to football, and it definitely applies below the waist. That's where the long

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Find Manscape and the lawnmower lineup today at Target and CVS. Dan Levitar. Can't wait for 39. Yeah, I can't either. 40 comes first. Do you know what 40 is yet? Not yet. What are we doing?

Greg, did you just laugh? Did you just laugh out loud at something Lewis said in your ear? Greg, Cody. Yes. I couldn't help it. It was funny. Thanks, Lewis. Gagging the goose.

Of course. Choking the frog. I mean, there's a million of them. Of course. Half of them would sound dirty if we keep doing it. This is the Dan Levitar show. We've got to go to the bucket here for the first time this season in a little bit. We've got to get to a gearhead segment as well.

But I just wanted to celebrate for a moment that beginning tonight with the NFL season, Greg Cody begins his 36th season of making picks with the upset bird. His 36th season of NFL prognostications. He's got, look at it. Look at the smile on his face. Look at how happy he is to think about reuniting with the upset bird for yet another year. Oh, boy. It's half my life, literally. And I began in 1991.

And it wasn't that common back then. I'm not saying I was anywhere near the first to do it, but back in 1991. Were you? It wasn't that common. You were the first one to make predictions. Not Nostradamus. You were before him. No.

But it wasn't that common for... Certainly the first with a cartoon bird. That's true. Can we say that about a lot of things just based off how long you be one of the first? Yeah, probably. A lot of things. Yeah, right? Dog of the week?

Probably the first with a dog of the week. Yes, that's true. Although we retired the dog of the week a few years ago. What? What? What? Yeah, we no longer have a dog. What?

What? What? What? I'll mention the worst game of the week and it very well maybe. Is this a woke thing? Miami and Big. No. No from the editor?

It's just, I have three categories now. The Dolphins game, the game of the week, and the upset of the week. Bring back the dog of the week. You know what? I might, just because you ask. Bring it back, Jack. I'm like a dog with a bone on this one. I will.

I'm going to bring it back. Sell a sponsorship. Okay, you got one? Ethical. Too thin. So Greg Cody is going into his 36 season picking games, and his son is going into his first season of a new game show that he'd like to debut, which is,

Awesome or child abuse? That's right. It's a staple of mine around here. Is it an acapella? All right. So what we have here? We have a family who has a kid. And they decided that this kid, I don't know, if it's not bungee jumping,

what's the thing when you jump off a cliff and you're not going straight down but you end up on like a giant? No, that's bungee jumping. No, but bungee jumping is just like straight down. Base jumping? Maybe base jumping. You end up regardless of what it's actually called. This kid, it's a family. they have him on the edge of a cliff, he's tied up, and you watch this video and you see this kid,

and you tell me whether he's enjoying himself? Well, before we do this, though, explain to the audio audience exactly how this is different from bungee jumping or base jumping. He's tied to something, and they're just pushing a what, a seven-year-old or a six-year-old blonde kid off of a cliff? I imagine that bungee jumping is you're on some sort of bridge, and you jump straight down, and then it's just like a bungee cord. And now this is more of like a Grand Canyon looking thing where he's going to jump off of the cliff and instead of going straight down,

he'll go like as if he's on like the world. Chris, what's he attached to the kid? A bungee. That's right. Okay, whatever, dude. I don't think this is actually called bungee jumping. I don't know what it's called, but it's on a Grand Canyon type. Well, you think it might be called child abuse.

Well, that's what I want you guys to decide here. So let's watch. But does the game show have music? Like game shows have music. They've got some imaging. If you want to start and have a 36-year run like your father. Well, let's talk this one out. We usually take a bit for a walk, and if it's successful, then we get the music on the back end.

Well, it's just if it is child abuse, having goofy music underneath is not great. But we're asking the question. It's just a question. It's got a charm. I feel like sometimes it might be very clear. All right. So the part that's a little unsettling to me here is there's going to be a countdown. And it's like, all right, here we go.

Whatever his name is. Come here, Johnny. And as they get him, they kind of walk him to the edge of the cliff. Do you think they asked him first if he wants to do it? Like, hey, we're doing this. That's the confusing part, is that he doesn't. seem too terrified. He also doesn't seem too excited. He's kind of like a neutral, so it's hard to really read him here. I want you to pay attention here. I want to get David's question here.

Before we watch the video, why maybe for this kid, the action is the juice. I don't love including a credit of where we're getting the video and then saying child abuse. So I'm very hesitant. It's still, again, it's a question. I have feedback for the game. It's too long. Well, there's no, there's no music. There's no title. He doesn't know the name of the sport. And if we rule one way or another, we're opening ourselves up to an accusation. Well, we don't know how we're going to rule. Clear on the ground rules. This is when we watch the video and then we come back and we all guess, was it child

abuse or awesome? You ready? Yeah. Okay, let's do it. Ready? Five, four, three, two, one. Oh, my. Oh, my God.

Now the kid is just like swinging. That's a second Wiley Coyote reference. That's crazy. That is absolutely insane. If I got to be 18 years old and I saw that I did this as a kid, I would not want to be with my parents anymore. It's bungee jumping, by the way. Totally.

Two markers. Okay. That was like, there's a lot of swinging there. Whereas the bungee jump, I imagine the bungee jump is a straight down thing and you're just kind of bouncing up and down. I'm going to say it's child abuse, but not for the reason that you think. It's because of the dovet. That is horrifying.

All of what it is that you guys just showed me as I am not much of a thrill seeker. I'm not big on adventure. This child is braver than I am or would ever be. And he did just jump. Like that kid was not afraid of that. But there's also a slight because they don't want a situation where he goes too close to the edge and he's like trickling down. So there is a bit of a just for his safety, a push right at the end.

So he gets away from the mountain. You think safety was a priority. I think that they are essentially trying to keep him safe by giving him a little shove at the end. You know what, safer? Not pushing him off a cliff. Zagaki. So what are we voting here? Greg, let's go around the room.

Awesome or child abuse? I think it's in between. I think it's reckless. But I'm just glad you're nothing. I'm just glad your bit didn't involve me. I'm just glad your bit didn't involve me because when you first said the premise, I was worried that I was going to be involved in that. Well, there were a few times I had to run from you as a kid.

Okay. It's a different game, Greg. You can't say reckless. That's a totally different... Because it's not the game. The game is awesome. Awesome or child abuse. Let's put it this way.

I would never do that. I would never do that. Again, not the game. Can we say the game again, Chris, please? What are the options? It's awesome or child abuse. Greg. That's too happy.

Nonviolent child abuse. It's no fun playing with him. I do think that the syllable count is nice for us chanting it together. Awesome or child abuse. Get some nice music underneath that. You're right, Dan, that's something. Let's see what we've got there.

I think we've got something there. Get some happy music. And the moment that we get to, it's child abuse is when the game ends, doesn't last 36 years, ends on the spot. It's over. It doesn't have any. Yeah, right.

That's correct. But so far, we're good. So far, one time in, we're good. It's got to be awesome every time. All we know, that kid was, like, sobbing as soon as he pushed off. No, no, he jumped off of his own accord. Like, he was happy to do it. He looked a little scared as anybody would.

He was trying to get away from the dubstep. Yeah, but he jumped and he chose that. I mean, if you're ever... Can't you make a decision like that at four? If you're ever out of things to discuss when it comes to this game, just any time Miami wins a football game, and Michael Irving's doing that thing, we can't ask it. We've got a gearhead that we have to get to here,

and we're going to go to the bucket and pick our fate here. And I am told that we are going to abide by a whole lot of costume wearing this season. And so the punishments are real. The sponsorship's going to be real. I'm told that this is... Jeremy's laying the hammer down. Jeremy is the commissioner, which doesn't bode well for much of anything in terms of, you know, iron fist. His email was so adorable.

He's like, God, this year it's going to be super serious. We were better last year. He's a personable fella. There's going to be real punishments if you don't do it. I don't know. It's going to be better. I mean, we did get rid of that one guy. What do you have for Gearhead, Mike, because you're wearing your Richard Gear hat,

and we've put some more pieces on it, some pieces have fallen off it, but the gearhead remains strong and features the hood ornament of Richard Gear. So, Dan, we're in the chase, which is NASCAR's version of the playoffs, and Christopher Bell's been the bridesmaid all season long. He finally gets a win, but that is not the talking point from this race. Carson Hosevar, who's kind of got a little bit of a growing Dale Earnhardt type reputation. Young hot shot that does a lot of things, that rub drivers the wrong way, almost quite literally. He spun Brad Kozlowski out, and it's a crazy sport like that because you can just at any moment decide,

I'm going to wreck this guy. And Carson Hosevar does that a lot. Now, I'm going to cue up some sound from Denny Hamlin because Denny Hamlin was really funny on his podcast. One of the great podcasts out there, super honest, super engaging. He's like, I'm not going to say anything about Carson. Hosevar because I'm not going to give him what he wants. But then he gives a quote about their team and it's

exactly what Carson Hosevar wants. Here's a clip. I'll talk about Svire. Well, I do wonder like... There's no adults in the room, clearly in that building. No adults. That's my opinion. Because how can you honestly think that that's what's best

for your company? If you're running a serious organization. I think they're unsirious. That's a great sound. Anything else? Yeah. Keep in mind, he prefaced that by saying, I'm not going to give Carson Hosevar what he wants and address him. But then he just takes out the entire team, a team in which Carson Hosevar is the crown jewel of. Carson Hosevar, by the way, sold like a quarter million dollars worth of merch after he spun Brad Kislauski out. He's one of the more popular up-and-coming racers out there because of his style, because he reminds people of a bygone era.

He had a statement after Denny Hamlin's comments, and man, NASCAR is good with a drama this season. So many people are out there going to discredit you for being a fan of us, us be inspired. They're going to call you dumb, fake fans, and worse. NASCAR doesn't have to be that serious. We race for the fans, even the ones that hate us, regardless if we're an unsurious organization. That's a bad typo at the end, the way that he spelled unsurious at the end. Oh, unerseous. Carson, I mean, this is why people like Carson Hosevar, and Carson Hosevar has become...

Because he's a bad speller? Yeah, well, it's just because he's the common man, you know? Common man can't spell. Yeah, he's going to wreck you, and then he's going to make a typo about it. And he's become hugely popular, so popular, in fact, that if you even resemble Carson Hosevar in an NASCAR race, people will flag you down and want to talk to you about Carson Hosevar, which is what happened to my buddy, College Mike. Now, college, Mike, this was night two at Daytona.

And, you know, it's been a thing in NASCAR races. He does bear a slight resemblance to Carson Hosevar. they're both white and tallish and blonde. And so like the first night we were at this bar, lovely people called the pit stop. They were like, hey, it's Hosevar and college Mike's like, yeah, yeah, whatever, I'll have a couple beers. And so night two, after the race, Carson Hosevar wrecks out,

ruins the race for a lot of people that had action on it, just had a blue attire. And so they keep the bit going. Hey, Carson, what's up, man? He's like, you know I'm not Carson. That doesn't matter. Here, have some beers. But then what happened was people started coming up to college Mike,

and the bartenders who know that this is not Carson Hosevar insisted that it was. And at a certain point, college Mike decides, all right, F it, I'll just go with it. And about two dozen people come up to College Mike at a NASCAR race, whilst College Mike is wearing a Denny Hamlin T-shirt, okay? He's wearing the Carson Hosebar hat, but he's wearing another driver's t-shirt. They are convinced he is Carson Hosevar. Dan, I saw a woman come up to him, say, my daughter loves you. She wakes her up at 12.30 a.m.

Face him's college mic's like, yeah, well, tough race, blew out of tire. And he's just going on with this. He signed cowboy hats. How would he signed NASCAR? Well, we were, we were. He did have our social team around him. So, like, I could see why people are like, oh, this guy's got people recording them. Especially when the bartenders are like, that's Carson Hosevar.

One of the ladies, like, is that really what, is that really Carson Hosebar? I'm like, that's what they're saying. And so he's like signing with permanent marker people's like real cowboy hats. He's ruining his hat. But he doesn't know what Carson Hosevar's signature looks like. So he just, well, I mean, it doesn't look like Carson Hosevar can spell all that great, but he's just scribbling an autograph. Chicken scratch on this guy's cowboy.

This guy takes his hat and he Googles Carson Hosevar's signature. And, of course, it looks nothing like Carson Hosebar's signature. The guy comes up to college, Mike, rips his hat off and goes, hey, you're not Carson Hosebar. I'm like, time to go, and we all leave. Wasn't he wearing like a Denny Hamlin shirt? He was wearing a Denny Hamlin shirt. Okay, I'm going to have to do this again to Chris for the second time. Yeah, it's a C-Morton-Also shirt.

Minor penalty, two minutes four, not listening to the show. There's a lot going on. Yeah, so that was this edition of Gearhead. The Chase is already so great. Gearhead is presented by Cuervo for every lap. Keep it fun. Keep it Cuervo. Please show yourself out.

So we have something to get to here with Zaslo's feuding with Cam Newton. Is that fair to say, Zaz? I don't know if I would say feuding, but I hate him. All right, we'll get to that in a second. Oh, unerousiest.