The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - The Sorsby Saga (feat. Albert Breer)

Episode Date: May 29, 2026

Sports Illustrated’s Albert Breer joins the show to break down the Brendan Sorsby saga! Did Curt Cignetti know this was coming? Breer shares exclusive insight on NFL teams targeting Sorsby for the supplemental draft, why the NCAA is making him a "sacrificial lamb," and how an NFL agreement might just bring him straight to the banks of the Three Rivers. Ok, we made that last one up. But save us from the 43-year-old man who can't handle a pass rush! AUDIO Football America! is available wherever you listen to podcasts. Leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/football-america/id1831757512 Follow us: Dave Dameshek: https://x.com/dameshek Gino Fuentes: https://x.com/Gino_Fuentes Mike Fuentes: https://x.com/mikefountains Ethan Budowsky: https://x.com/ethanbudowsky Host: Dave Dameshek Team: Gino Fuentes, Mike Fuentes, Ethan Bedowsky Director: Danny Benitez Senior Producers: Gino Fuentes, Mike Fuentes Executive Producer: Soup Campbell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What the hell is going on? I thought after Memorial Day and up until August, nothing was supposed to happen in football. O Contrere, we have our pal from Sports Illustrated, Bert Breer coming up in just a second to fill us in on everything, including Jackson Dart, Brendan Sorsby, the State of the Steelers, all the rest of it. Plus, there's basketball, there's hockey. Let's get into it. Let's start the show. Yes, hi and hello, my fellow football Americans. Welcome to Football America, presented as ever by Draft King. Draft Kings the crown is yours and like I said Bert Breer in just a second want to talk about the Knickerbockers they're in the finals who they're going to play TBD Stanley Cup final poor people in Buffalo oh those poor souls up there in the meantime it's episode 66 let's do it the episode

as we do with every episode we honor the player in football nay sports history who wore it 66, Gene O'Fuentes. Welcome back after a week away. How are you? And tell us who is that person? Well, we got some Steelers here. We got Alan Fanica. Okay, wrong answer.

We got Ray Nishki. How do you say that? There's like five consonants in a row. Nitchie. Nitchie. Ray Nitchie. Five-time NFL champion. Ethan had one that sort of...

Yeah, from baseball day. Ray Nitchie, 66. Bald-headed guy. He also was in, you know, the movie with Bert Reynolds, a mean machine. They remade it with Adam Sagan. Longest yard is the name of the movie. Longest yard. Sheesh. There's a baseball one too, right? I didn't remember the name of the movie, but I know the name of the guy who plays middle linebacker who Bert Reynolds throws the football into and his balls two plays in a row. And his name is Ray Nitchke. Dave, we've got some really good ones

from baseball too. We've got Don Zimmer famously thrown to the ground by Pedro Martinez. And of course, how can we not remember Yasil Pueg? That's the only one. answer, right? He's the guy who wore 66, the best in sports. He used to live a couple of blocks away from me, but that's not the correct answer. I think that's the only one I can think of it. That's the only one I can think of anything else. Let's move on. Let me name for you the individual who has meant more to his franchise than any other human being has ever meant to any other franchise. It's Mario Lemieux, obviously. Number 66, the greatest hockey player in the history of people.

Good news there, too, for the Pittsburgh Penguins. Gino Malkin inks a year-long deal. So he's back. Remarkable stuff. We're so cynical as sports fans these days. But I think we can all take a minute to say, man, especially in free agency or any other time, really, that there's not one guy who's going to make it 21 years with one franchise,

but three, Gino Malkin and Sidney Crosby and Chris Lattang teammates where we're in the same uniform for more than two decades, remarkable stuff. But like I've said before, you need to look no further than the headlines to realize that most people are too cynical to acknowledge greatness. We're watching Showy Atani, and I say greatest in the history of people. Showy Atani is in fact that in Major League Baseball. Do we agree on that? Is that hyperbolic, or is that settled at this point? On Wednesday night, six scoreless eight, not scoreless innings, but six

innings he gets the win as the pitcher. Seven strikeouts, plus he hit a home run. Why isn't this what we're talking about, about 80% of the time we're talking about sports right now. This is the, the lore of baseball is pretty, pretty heavy from Babe Ruth to Willie Mays and Barry Bonds and all that. None holds a candle to this cat, right? This might be his most impressive year for me, just because he, I turn around and he's got the lowest ERA in baseball after having a 50 and 50 season. It's under one. It's, it's crazy. It's unbelievable. I didn't even realize it. Dave, I'll be honest, haven't tuned in baseball quite yet. Still waiting for the hockey.

playoffs to be over. But once I do turn into baseball, wow, you're telling me, Shohei Otani has an ERA under one. What the hell are we talking about here? It's kind of like basketball doesn't start until after the All-Star break, because that's when that's when football's over. Yeah, then, oh, Super Bowl's over. What, basketball's been going on? That's crazy. Yeah, I guess in another week or two, if he can continue this level, both on the hump and at the dish, then maybe basketball and hockey fans will start paying a little bit more attention. I want to talk about the Knickerbockers and the meaning of that in New York and to the sports world at large. And Jackson Dart is making noise up there as well.

But first, I want to dig in on all the NFL news. And there is a surprising amount of it with one of the best in the business. Our old pal from NFL Network, here comes Bird Breer. This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the. the rhythm of ad sales, using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations,

more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify. This episode is brought to you by FIFA World Cup, launch edition on Netflix. It's a fast, fluid game where your phone is the controller and your TV is the stadium. You just launch it on your TV, scan the QR code with your phone, and boom, you're shooting and passing in seconds. Plus, it's included in your Netflix membership with zero extra costs. Go to the Games tab and play FIFA World Cup launch edition now, only on Netflix. Right now, for a limited time, everyone's part of the Buick team, even you. Buick's employee pricing for you event is on now.

Get a purchase credit of up to $3,168 on a 2026 Buick Envision. Surround yourself with signature Buick refinement from an available massaging driver's seat to an expansive panoramic moonroof and a stunning ultra-wide 30-inch diagonal screen. Don't miss Buick's employee pricing for you event. Visit buick.com.ca for more details. My name is Peter Parker, but I'm also Spider-Man. This July. You're faced with a threat.

I can be anyone. The world may have forgotten Peter Parker. I'm just a neighbor, friendly neighbor. But he hasn't forgotten them. Sometimes Spider-Man has to do the hard thing. That's my responsibility. Talk to Banner? I didn't know you could get that big.

Spider-Man, brand-new day in theaters July 31st. I'm the most disorganized person on the planet. It takes a lot of guts to say that. Takes a lot of guts to say that. And that's why we're bringing him back. he is the bear of the crown jewel of Sports Illustrated's NFL kingdom the ruler of Monday morning QB, the best pal of Connor or his producer is one Kent Brown from Wilmerdink PA. That's right.

And he is an Ohio state guy trying to figure out where his buck guys go and Kurt Signetti's Big Ten Empire. It's our old pal from the NFL network, Bert Ney Albert Breer. What's happening, fella? How you been? Well, enjoy that while you can because I don't know how much longer it's going to be Kurt Signetti's Big Ten, but right now it certainly is. Hey, Bert, first things first. You and I started at the NFL. I'm pretty sure it was the same year we did. And you were doing a remote and I was at home base. And I referred to you. They said, let's get it out to New England to Foxborough where Albert Breer is standing by. And I said, hey, Bert, what's happening? And when the segment ended, everybody went crazy. Like, how dare you insult Albert like that? And I said, I'm trying to do him a solid.

I think Bert Breer sounds like a mid-century gum shoe or something. It's Bert Breer over here. Are you okay with it years later? Were you offended at the time? I first called you. No, that's what my childhood friends call me. Sure. I thought you knew that.

I thought you had some inside sources on that. Like, that's what my childhood friends call me. So my thing is I just never correct anybody. So some people call me Bert. Other people call me Albert. I'm fine either way. I just, I don't know. I hear people get offended when you refer to them the wrong way.

Like, I love Matthew Stafford, but I heard Kelly Stafford got offended by people calling Matthew Stafford, Matt. Like, I just never have. Like, I don't, I really, like, don't correct people. So maybe I should. I don't know. I'm clear of any confusion on that. I just think it sounds cooler, like I say. I just think this helps you.

You could appear in a Billy Wilder movie if you play your cards right. Yeah, I mean, I've told, I told Rich Eisen, like, you know, Rich Eisen, you're doing well. Dick Eisen, even cooler, though. I like that. Yeah, that sounds like sort of like old school, like 1930s radio announcer. Like the guy who called, the guy who called, like, you know, Babe Bruce Games could definitely be his knees. Everybody, don't you know? Here it comes, everybody.

Bert Breer. everybody's an ace reporter he's covering the flake gate um yes i want to show you the the respect you deserve as somebody who stood out there in that sweltering heat during the scandal of our times uh deflate gate and all of that but now let's move on to a more recent one you're talking about it in your most recent pages which you can find um wherever you find uh bert breers great work sports illustrated digitally and otherwise brendon sorsby we're not talking about fernando mendoza you've It sounds like you're familiar with the season. He just that.

Yeah, he had a nice year. Another IU guy, though. Brendan Sorsby went on and wore the red and black and a couple other places as well. Now it sounds like... Is that the one Tignetti ditched then? Didn't he ditch? I think so. I think so.

Maybe he knew the trouble was coming. Well, I mean, you did kind of indicate on the side that Coach SIG, right. Let's see if he, if his empire can exist beyond. Fernando, I think the early returns indicate that they probably have a chance of surviving this and bridging the gap. We'll see about that. But Brendan Soresby was a near-do well, apparently, putting some bank down, although it's a little bit of the Pete Rose's manager of his team, at least as long as you're not betting against your team. That's the real problem. But either way, how big an issue is this? Let's say, okay, supplemental draft, he's available to you. You really

like him as a football player. How many teams will it be all 32 that say we can't have a guy that's engaging in gambling on the games that he's playing in? So it's a non-starter for us. No, I think there's going to be a bunch that'll consider him. And obviously, a lot of it's relative to your own quarterback position and who you have at that spot. But I think this is as high end a quarterback prospect that's entered the supplemental draft, probably since the 80s. You know, you had Steve Walsh in 89. I remember the Steve Walsh experience, and a lot of people forget that Jimmy Johnson,

at least sort of kind of hinted that he liked Steve Walsh better than Troy Eggman in the moment. Yep, that's right. And then Bernie Cozhar before that, of course, in 84 when he steered himself to Cleveland. And so, you know, I think it's interesting because I've talked to people that I think, you know, if you heard their names, you'd really respect, Dave, that view him as a potential top five pick in the 27 draft who think that he's up there with

Arch Manning and C.J. Carr and Dante Moore, among the guys that are going to be competing to go at the highest end of that draft. And, you know, so I think what's in front of teams now, if you can get past the gambling issue, is, you know, an opportunity. Again, if he doesn't get his injunction on Monday in Lubbock, you know, we'll see how that goes. But if he doesn't get his injunction, probably declares the supplemental draft. And then the opportunity in front of these teams is maybe I can take care of my quarterback situation now. You know, maybe I can take a guy that would be up there with an Archmanning, with Adonte Moore, with a CJ car in 2027, get him in my building early and start working with him now. And maybe I don't even have to spend a first

round pick to do it. So I think a lot of it's going to be relative, like how you, how you, how you see him versus the other guys. And, you know, I can tell you for a fact, teams are already digging in on him and studying him and preparing for the contingency that he does wind up becoming available in the supplemental draft. Now, the gambling issue is another piece of it. And that, that I think, you know, a lot of that's going to come down to how the league rules on this. There is the Terrell prior precedent from 2011. And I think a lot of people forget that the NCAA actually suspended him first, and the NFL was matching that suspension. So it was a six-game suspension from the NCAA. The NFL didn't want to provide safe harbor for guys who are in situations like Terrell's.

So they match the suspension. You can't really match a banishment, you know? So, you know, I think the first piece of this, of course, is the NFL accepting him into the supplemental draft. If he doesn't get that injunction, and then the next piece would be okay, is the NFL just going to let him in? Or is the NFL going to make him? him serve some sort of suspension going to well as far as that goes sorry to sorry to interrupt you but do you get a sense that maybe the league considers brendan soresby where he is sort of a great

sacrificial lamb to send a message to all future um players who the answer into this situation yeah the answer i think is to at least some degree yes because the nc a c a is treating this as a precedent setter which is why they're fighting the way they are. You know, this is, I mean, look, like, we've seen horrible things happen in sports, right? Things that, from a human perspective, are much worse than this. But betting on your own team is sort of a cardinal sin in sports. And it really calls the entire construct of the sport into question.

And so it becomes an as existential thing for the big sports leagues and the NCAA. So the NCAA has set the precedent here. We're not going to allow this in our organization, in our schools. We will not allow this. So they drew that line in the sand. And we'll see how the court's rule going forward. The NFL is in an interesting spot here because this didn't happen under their watch. And so how do they handle it?

And that's where you need to pay attention to who Brendan Sores be hired. It's Jeffrey Kessler, who's like a boogeyman for the pro sports leagues. You know, he has represented the big unions in almost every sport and strikes and lockouts. And so does the NFL want to get into some sort of legal fight with Jeffrey Kessler? And I think what Jeffrey Kessler's argument here would be, well, it didn't happen under your watch. And the NFL, you're a trade association. It is up to your companies to determine whether or not this guy is employable. And once he is in your trade association, then you can punish him for things that happen while he's in the trade association, but you can't do it before that.

So it's a fascinating case. And my guess would be that Soresby's camp will probably work to come to some sort of resolution with the NFL before you get to any of that. So at least everybody knows the landscape going forward. super interesting stuff as we have fernando mendoza and kirk cousins landing in sin city and brendon soresby going we'll see somewhere else in pro football but i would tell you this on that like think about this though like not to cut you off dave but like the jets the dolphins the cardinals the browns all those teams for the most part kept their powder dry and not taking a quarterback all that high like the cardinals took carson back in the third round the jets took click kid club digging in the fourth round

But for the most part, those teams kept their powder dry on drafting a quarterback high in 2027. So I think those teams all become teams to watch when it comes to Bradford-B. Well, yeah, those are not high-end teams. If I followed the list, you just said. There's another team that probably should be QB desperate that plays on the banks to the Three Rivers. We'll get to them on the other side of that Ohio, Pennsylvania border, though. Some intrigue around Miles Garrett. I thought it was weird that you said a week ago that Todd Munkin,

and Miles Garrett have never met each other? I mean, it's may, man. What gives here? Is that something that we should be shrugging off as fans? Or are you struck by the face of the team, not having met the new coach who's been around for four months? I wouldn't shrug it. I wouldn't shrug it off. I mean, I can think you just judge them on their actions.

Like, they had a roster bonus or an option bonus that was, like, to be executed in March, and they moved that back to September. Now, that doesn't really affect the payment of the $29 million much. It just affects the Brown's ability to trade the contract. Because if they execute that option bonus with the deferred payments in March, they can't undo that. That money's gone. But if it's pushed to September, now they can still trade that chunk of the contract

along with the rest of it. So there's that piece of it. There's the June 1st date, which is a big one coming up on Monday. and look, like I think from a timeline perspective, if you look at where the Browns are, they've tried to get a lot younger in the wake of the Travis Hunter trade last year. And they did a good job of putting together a rookie kit class last year to serve as a foundation of that with guys like Carson Swessinger and Mason Graham and Harold Fanon and Quinn-Shon-Judkins. And, you know, this year they come back and they add Spencer Fanon and Casey Concepcion and Denzel Boston.

And so my question would be, do the timelines match up? Do the timelines of those guys match up with the timeline of Miles Garrett, who's going to turn 31 at the end of this year? And if you say to yourself, well, maybe their quarterback isn't on the roster yet in Cleveland, right? The real quarterback of the future isn't on the roster. Well, that means maybe you're not a real contender until 27 or 28 when Garrett's going to be 32 or 33. And now if you try to trade them then, the value. isn't close to the same as it would be right now.

So whether it happens next week in a month before the trade deadline, I think this is going to be something we're all going to be following. And I do think that there are a lot of teams that would be interested in acquiring him. And I do think the Browns could still get a pretty massive return, which I think would supercharge the – it's hard to replace Miles Garrett. Don't get me wrong. But, you know, having a couple more first-round picks, maybe a young player. coming in would help to really, you know, put a jetpack on that youth movement they've got going.

Well, I mean, just imagine. I mean, it's not hard to tick off the teams that feel real close, but lack primarily above all other needs, probably a difference-making guy on the edge there, bills and ravens. That's an easy list to go through right at the top there. Yeah, I mean, the bears have been looking for a guy opposite Montez-Swatt. To me, the Rams are really interesting. Yeah. I mean, they just drafted, they just drafted Ty Simpson in the first round, which means they don't need to worry as much about where we're going to get our quarterback in 27 or 28 to eventually replace Matthew Stafford. I think those picks become more movable for them now.

And they could give you a young edge rusher back because they've got a couple of those, you know. The Eagles are always in these things. Their cap situation is a little tighter, so I'm not sure about them quite as much. but there are definitely teams there that I think would be in the mix. And again, like, I would look at it this way, Dave. Like, if you're a Cleveland and you can get, say, two ones in a young player form, whatever that is, right? What's that going to look like in two years if you try to trade him two years from now?

You know? And I just think of, like, Coil Mack, like, what he was traded for when he was traded from the Raiders to the Bears and then how much less? less it was when it was the bears to the chargers. You know, what Stefan Diggs was traded for when he went from the Vikings to the Bichens and how much less it was when it was from the bills to the Vikings or from the bills to the Texans. Like I think those are the things that you have to consider when you're looking at something like this and you're considering what the Brown strategy might be. Well, listen, what you also describe a more recent example that should maybe spook the Browns

about what happens in two or three years is the Pittsburgh Steelers and the deal they made with T.J. Watt. 13, 14 months or so ago, I was saying that whether it sounds disloyal or whatever, the Steelers really like the one uniform thing, me as a Pittsburgh dork, also loves that the legends, its greatest legends, spend their entire careers wearing only black and gold. And that's not just in football. I love that with all the guys, but it was unwise to ink T.J. Watt, and there are at least rumors that they're open to trading him. I think that that's probably a non-starter based on exactly what you're describing because he is 32. He is what Miles Gare, I mean, they're not the same player, but you're picking up when I'm laying

down. He is, in fact, unmovable, correct? I think he'd be hard to move. Yeah. I mean, like I, and I think the world is huge J. Watt as a player. I know there were teams. I know there were teams that like by the end of last year felt like Alex Highsmith was more of a of an issue for them when they're game planning against the.

Steelers defense than Watt was, just sort of what it was by the end of the year last year, you know? And I think that that's, it's an interesting strategy the Steelers have taken because to me, the hire of Mike McCarthy was ownership saying we do not want to sink to the bottom of the week. We do not want to go through a rebuild. I think most of us on the outside looked at it. And, you know, you see some of the older pieces, Jalen Ramsey, Cam Hayward, T.J. Watt. even D.K. Metcalf's got a lot of mileage for a guy who's going to be 29 years old. And you look at it and you say, okay, like, this is probably the time with Mike Tomlin gone to rip the Band-Aid off and go and hire a young coach like you always have, whether that be like, you know, a Chris Shula or Aniziro, Evereaux, whoever it is, like bringing in a young coach that would sort of fit the mold of what you've always had there. and instead they turn around and they hire a guy who, and I love Mike McCarthy,

but did you know that on his first day of work, he became the oldest coach in Steelers history? Isn't that incredible? On his very first day of work. And I think a lot of Mike McCarthy as a coach, but that's the reality of it. It was a let's win now. And then you see their actions, right? They got older. They signed Jamel Dean, who's almost 30 to play corner.

They signed Michael Pittman, who I think is going into his eighth year to play receiver. They signed a running back in Rico Dattle, who's going into his eighth year. And so, like, I, you know, you could see the wheels turning on Aaron Rogers coming back, but also, you know, with guys like T.J. Watt, you know, you can feel the reluctance to let go of that core. And, you know, I thought last year it was going to be the last swing. And that's why I thought it was such a, I thought it was a really good idea to bring in Rogers. Because if you're going to take the last swing, like swing hard. you know, but it seems like they, you know, that last swing is now becoming the second to last swing with these guys.

Well, it's silly and they continue to go into the, you know, it's not trying to, as I always say, fuel the jet at 30,000 feet that I resent. In fact, I support that, especially in a year-to-year league, the idea that you should take a season off. First of all, look at the teams that have intentionally tanked entire seasons. Did it work out for those teams? No, largely it has it. But beyond that, yes, year to year. My misread, or based on what you're saying is, was and remains, McCarthy is there, even though he's older than the other QB whisperers out there.

He's a guy, you know, a quarter century into developing quarterbacks and getting the best version of those guys. It makes sense to me to bring him in to develop one of the young guys or a few of the young guys. The Rogers thing is where it gets sideways to me, and I'm disappointed that they're kind of, you know, there's some, there's a sentiment going around that this is ownership saying we're not taking a season off. And that's we're the ones who want Aaron Rogers in there to sort of grease the skids instead of doing the, as you say, pull the Band-Aid off and sort of start a kind of soft start a new era with one of the young guys. The problem is that they let all those options come and go. And, you know, you're an Ohio state guy.

I think most football fans know that at this point. that Bert Breer is a diehard with the Buckeyes. So you know Will Howard on a couple of levels here. I think the thing that Steelers fans need to understand is, Will Howard might work out, Drew Aller might work out, but both of them are big long shots. Mike McCarthy might be able to develop one or both of them, but it's highly unlikely the swings to take.

You say swing big on Rogers. No 40-plus guy besides Tom Brady has ever gotten to a Super Bowl. So I think it's sort of delusional to think that that guy is going to be the to offset 60 years of Super Bowl era history. But I also think, you know, taking swings on Jackson Dart, who's in the news, if you haven't heard. But, you know, there were a number, you know, Kyler Murray and Malie Willis and otherwise, could have been options for the Steelers.

Instead, they leaned in here. Do you think, to me, you look at the Rams who are legit Super Bowl contenders. They have the reigning MVP, and then underneath him, they're developing Ty Simpson. Pretty sorry version of that going on in Pittsburgh. You have a 43-year-old man who doesn't like a pass rush, and these long-shot guys that people are looking to, like maybe Will Howard can develop. Do you buy that on any level bouncing off of McCarthy and otherwise? Well, I mean, part of the way this all worked out, I will say that you want to get a look at Will Howard. You know, it doesn't mean he's going to become anything.

But, like, I do know that part of the setting of the date, that he was going to show up in the first day of OTAs was Mike McCarthy wanted to run basically like a 100 level of his offense to the players, you know, early on and wanted to get a good look at Will Howard and see, you know, where the team stood at the position. They drafted Drew Aller in the third round. So, like, I think the hope would be that Will Howard beats out Mason Rudolph

and then your depth chart is Rogers Howard. But there's no way, but they can't let Mason, Rudolph. I mean, again, not what you and I think. I'm talking about what their mindset is. Then do you carry four? Then do you carry four? Because like then, allers on the team. Aller was a third round pick. They're not cutting Alar. So, definitely not cutting Aller. That's right. And they're not going to cut Mason Rudolph. If they think of themselves the way they operate and again, we're in a new area here with Mike McCarthy, but still given, you know, the stealer way as much as that is the thing in

26. I don't buy that if they perceive themselves to be viable Super Bowl contenders that they are going to risk the season with Will Howard. So would you keep four? No, I think that they have to say goodbye to Will Howard. Yeah. And that could be. And look, like, you're right. I mean, everybody points back to Tom Brady going 199th or Russell Wilson going the third round. Like those are extreme outliers. Like the last four quarterback standing last year were you know, Drake May, who's the third pick in the draft, Bo Nix, who was the 12th pick in the draft, Matthew Stafford, who was the first pick in the draft, and Sam Darnold, who was the third pick in the draft, you know? So even the reclamation project in there, right? Sam Darnold

went third overall. Like, at that position, the way that position is analyzed, guys just don't slip through the cracks the way they used to at all, you know? The way it's developed, the way guys can transfer around, all the different, like, safety net, that there are here and there for guys who might slip through the cracks at some point. Like, it's become harder and harder to find a really good one outside of the first round. So I would agree with that. But I don't mind the approach of throwing darts at the dartboard. You know what I mean?

I think you just have to keep taking swings. I disagree with what you just said as a matter of fact. Brock Purdy is, you know, Mr. Relevant. I don't think Brock, but I also always say you have to put the asterisk next to it. Brock Purdy doesn't work in any football situation. He's with Kyle Shanahan. And so if you buy that broad logic, then if you, then Mike McCarthy should be able to get the best version of someone viable out there. The issue is, is there any, are any of those four guys in Pittsburgh, real guy, a difference making guys? And my answer is probably no. Yeah. And that's why, I mean,

again, like, you know, it's, it's interesting. Like Russell Wilson in Seattle is a third round pick, right? How many people do you hear talking about how? the Seahawks traded for Charlie Whitehurst or signed Matt Flynn. The Seahawks threw a lot of darts at the dartboard. They brought back Matt Hasselbeck for a year. They had Tavares Jackson there. They swung and swung and swung, and swung, and then in the third year, they hit. So I don't mind the idea of continuing to swing at the position.

I think that that's, you know, worst-case scenario, especially with the guy who's not a first round pick, because the guy becomes a long-term backup for you, and you wind up saving a few million dollars a year because you have the guy in a rookie contract. Okay, two more real quick for you, and then you go. You mentioned the Browns. A year ago, again, people were making fun of them.

They took Dylan, Gabriel, and Shadour, and they already have Watson and Flats. They're taking swings. It's the quarterback league. Until you solve that, you're not a real contender, so I credit them. But in the here and now, does money play in Cleveland this year? Is it Watson?

I think, yeah, I think my guess would be Watson starts the season. And you will probably see Shador get extended time to as they figure out where they're going at the position. Because barring them taking Brendan Sourtsby in the supplemental draft, this is obviously going to be a pretty big decision point for everyone in that building after this year. whether you have one in-house, who you're going to take if you don't in the 27 draft, which I think everybody expects to be pretty good at the position. So here's the thing with Watson. I mean, to me, it's much easier to go from Watson to Sanders whenever you need to do that, then it would be to go from Sanders back to Watson, right?

So I think that's number one. Number two, Todd Munkin has made, like, offenses work with tons of different quarterbacks. If you want to go back into his history, you'll find David Garard in Jacksonville. You'll find Brandon Whedon at Oklahoma State. You'll find James Winston and Ryan Fitzpatrick in Tampa. You'll find Stetson Bennett at Georgia. You'll find Lamar Jackson with the Ravens. So he's made it work for a lot of different types of quarterbacks.

And, you know, I think with Watson, what would be worse than just, wasting the three first round picks and $230 million would be not giving them a chance this year and seeing him go ball out somewhere else. So if I'm the Browns, like, I want to find out. If there's something there, I want to find out. And maybe it takes me four games or six games or eight games to find out. But I at least want to have a final answer given all that time and all of that money that's been spent on him. Your investment in him is still much greater than your investment in Shador Sanders or Dylan Gabriel is. And so I think, you know, the first thing you do is you endeavor to get an answer on

if there's anything there with Watson. And then you maybe get a look at Sanders. I think you probably are where you are with Gabriel, which I think Dylan Gabriel's got a chance to play in the league for a long time, but he's probably a career backup. So, you know, you, I think get try to, you're going to try to get as complete an idea of what you have a quarterback going into 27 as you possibly can. Oh, man. I see, to me, it's my, the rolling discussion that I think I lean into more than any other where pro football is concerned. And it is the guy at the trigger and then the guy coaching him up and the difference that that has made in pro football this millennium. You know, Kyle Shanahan,

more valuable to the Niners than Brock Purdy is. And as we've now seen Ben Johnson more valuable to the Lions than Dan Campbell is or Jared Gough to that point. Who coached Matt Flynn again when he was in Green Bay? Oh, yes, it was Mike McCarthy, which brings me back to my last question here. I believe in McCarthy is the better coach for right now, for this team, for this roster, and for developing the next quarterback who they get, whether it's Soresby or they draft them next year or otherwise. The thing that I stumbled across last week all of a sudden was the realization, oh, wait, Mike Tomlin's gone, and I always call him the greatest floor raiser in the sport, should we not just be assuming that the Steelers meet their usual level of, you know,

nine wins or whatever? Is that somehow in jeopardy because of this change? I definitely like McCarthy better than Tomlin, given that Tomlin felt outmoded. But I also think he, like I say, made sure that they, you know, they never had a losing season either. So I did this blind test with people. And I had four coaches and McCarthy was one of them. And his record, his career record, over nearly two decades was remarkably similar to the others three coaches. Do you know the other three coaches were? Tell me. Huh?

I want you to tell me. I would guess Harbaugh. Harbaugh. Tomlin? Yep. Right? Who else is relatively consistent? You got two of the three.

Shanny? Sean Peyton. Ah. So, I mean, I think sometimes optics play into this. Obviously, there's a lot of like the bad. and forth with him and Rogers back at the end of Green Bay. And like, I think sometimes Mike, Mike can come off. Mike's a really smart guy who sometimes, who doesn't, who can I come off as kind of folksy, you know, and like, David is that Picksburg accent. And not, but, but he is done down

to earth. I mean, like, I, I think you'd surprise people if you told him, and this just happened. he just won 12 games three years in a row in Dallas. Like I think most people would be surprised if you told them he did that. You know what I mean? Yeah, you're right. And it's a perception thing. You know what I mean? Like most people don't perceive him that way.

Like if John Harbaugh came in and won 12 games three years in a row in Dallas, they'd be like, my God, what a great job he has done. And I don't know why it is. Maybe it's anti-Yenzer. I don't know. Maybe you should look into that, Dave. I've looked into it, Bert, and it's well covered. Hollywood, I don't know why, hates Pittsburgh PA, the city of Champaigns.

Maybe it resents it for all of our success, all of our titles all over the place. But the facts are the facts. Black Sunday is a terrorist attack on Super Bowl 10 featuring the Pittsburgh Steelers. In Heaven Can Wait, the Rams win in overtime. Warren Beatty installs himself as the quarterback, and it's a ghost. He's a ghost. He jumps into the body of the Randall. Long story.

Who do they beat in that Super Bowl? Bowl. The Pittsburgh Steelers, in overtime, like I say, in a sudden death, terrorist attack at the Stanley Cup final. Who's playing in it? The Pittsburgh Penguins, the natural bird. You remember the football field, they call it Gotham. That's Pittsburgh, man. That whole thing. When Heinz Ward runs for the touchdown, that that's Pittsburgh. And in the natural, when Hobbs hits a home run, who does he do it against? The Pittsburgh Pirates. And while he takes his glorious run around the basis and he's celebrating with his teammates, dangerous shards of glass are falling on Pittsburgh Pirates outfielders. What's what's the what gets here? I didn't realize this level of persecution

was underway. Like, thank you for educating me. Hey, that's what you need to investigate Bert Breer. I don't know if you heard Dan Levitard said last week, sports journalism is dead. I don't want you to go into a five-minute thing here for your sake. But you're one of the people who legitimately is towing that line. How does that hit you? given the world in which we live into realities and all that, it feels. Yeah, I mean, thanks for saying that. I'd say it's an interesting question. Because I know, because by the way, I do need to say, the reason I know how seriously you take it,

I went to Indiana University School of Journalism and all of that, and I remember being struck by man. The people, this is borderline religious, the importance of journalism in our society. And I remember being struck by that when you and I were in a New Orleans bar for that Super Bowl. And I remember you going into great detail about the meaning of you coming up in Dallas and the influence that the guys learning at their knee and what that meant to you and all of that. So I sincerely know that you take it dead seriously. Yeah. So, I mean, like I grew up reading, like the Boston Globe that I grew up reading was like an all-star team, you know.

And so Will McDonnell was the guy that I looked up to the most. But you can go down the list of the guys that were there. I mean, Peter Gammons, Bob Ryan, Dan Shaughnessy. Sure. When I was in high school, Mike. Bob Ryan's getting a little bit too crazy with the Bill Russell is the greatest of all times. But, okay. It's a little.

But yeah, I mean, like I think. You couldn't check Shaq, Bill Russell. I think it's, I think on it, like, there's, look, like, I think, you know, it's our job to kind of create a record of everything that's, going on. And, you know, I've always viewed my job is to have an idea of what's happening inside the league with all 32 teams and, and be able to, you know, deliver the best information I can and as many mediums as I can. And I think, like, one thing for all of us now is meeting the audience where they're at, you know, and so whether that's on social media, whether that's

through video, whether that's through podcasting or writing, there's ways to do it. You know what I mean? Like, there's lots of ways to do it. You know, I think Pablo Torre is a great example of that. Like, what he is doing is journalism, you know? And I think most people listening to it probably wouldn't identify it as that, but it's journalism at its root, you know? So, you know, I think that that's sort of where I'm at on that. Like, I've been fortunate to work at some places that I, I mean, the Boston Globe, the Dallas Morning News, we were together at NFL Network, Sports Illustrated now that have great legacies. But, I mean, it's not my job to do the job the way that guys in the 50s and 60s would have done it. There are still fundamentals that I think we all should adhere to that they adhere to.

And the important stuff, how you gather information, your ethics, all that's the same, you know. But how you deliver, it's much different. And so I've got to do the job differently than those guys did. I tell you this, like, one of the most useful things for me was when I left NFL network and went to SI, I sort of challenged myself to pay attention to what I'm consuming. Because I think a lot of times people in our business, what they want to do and what they're actually consuming are two completely different things. And that helped. And the other thing that helped me was having good. I think that is such a great point, man, that it seems so obvious that I think a lot of people get away from.

Right. Right. You know, in comedy writing, they say, write what you know. Right, right. And then I think the other thing is, like, it's, I just take a look at your kids and how they're consuming stuff. I mean, the way I did this was the way a lot of kids my age did it was I go to the end of the driveway and pick up the paper and read the sports page cover to cover.

You know what I mean? Like, how many kids are doing that now? Zero. You know, so. Oh, Wednesdays were the biggest day for me coming home from school because I knew Sports Illustrated was waiting in the mailbox for it. I love to see who was on the cover. It was mine on Thursday.

And I would devour that thing, you know? Like, and they just, they, they don't consume it the same way. So just pay attention because, you know, I've gotten 11, 9, and 6 year old now. And they're going to be in the core audience before you know it, you know? Like, so I think that's like the important thing is like the fundamentals are still the same. It's just how you deliver the content is what's always changing and what you need to keep up with. I got to say, man, you struck me from the first time before I ever met you face to face watching you do stuff. You always had an old school presence, and that's why

Bert Breer really did seem to suit you. But you have over the last 20 years transitioned pretty neatly in a tough environment. Things have changed so wildly that you now have landed clean on the other side, like I say, with our pal Kent Brown and Matt Verderam and Connor Orr and all the other greats over there. Ken Brown was a good pull. I didn't know you and Kent. knew each other, but it makes sense. Oh, yeah, dude, they're from Wilmerding. You go over to Johnny's and tell him,

Kent Brown's mom sent you down there for the pork chops with the peppers, the cherry peppers on the side. Wait, say it again, what's the name of the place? It's Johnny's in Wilmerding. Johnys and Wilmardin, okay. Yeah, get over there. Yeah, the Ken Brown. Pork chops from Johnny's in Wilmorton.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, dude. No, you're doing great work. Keep up the great work. And we appreciate the time and best wishes. maybe we can connect in season and check in on the Buckeyes in the conference that now belongs to the Hoosie. Of course. And I don't have a date in front of me, but maybe we can circle that date on the calendar when the Buckeyes are in Bloomington and do something right around then. You know what? If you want to meet me at the 50 and settle all hash right there, we can do it.

Half time, pregame, I don't care, whenever you want it. 10 paces in turn, right? That's right. That's right. I was just talking fisticuffs. but if you want to have some gunplay, I'm open to all options here. In the meantime, like I say, keep up the great work, Bert Breer. Thanks, Dave.

Appreciate you having me. Whether life serves you an ace or an unexpected backhand, the high-protein yogurt, Oikos Pro, is there to feed your strength and help you turn every challenge into a smash. Oikos Pro helps build strong muscles and support muscle recovery with high-protein and contains no added sugar,

because true strength isn't about being able to take the hits. It's about being able to take the hits. to bounce back. OICOS Pro. Feed your strength. Visit OICOS.CA for more details. When you're a mid-sized business, you need every competitive advantage you can get. Like an AI solution that works for you, not against you. SAP Grow is built with AI embedded at its core, working across every system, and it's ready to go from day one so you can hit the ground running. Bring it with SAP Grow, AI Cloud ERP for any size business. This episode is brought to you by L'Oreal Group.

Beauty is a powerful force that moves us. That's why L'Oreal Group has built a business that is inclusive at its heart with 100% of its brands, championing diversity. With 25,000 professional opportunities for people under 30 worldwide and 54% of leading positions held by women, diversity is a strength that helps L'Oreal Group create the best beauty products for all people. Visit laurel.com to learn more. Hey, y'all's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair.

Ever order furniture online and wonder what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.com. Wayfair, every style, every home.

There he goes. What stood out to you? A lot of good info there. What about the Brendan Sorsby thing? Let's say it does work out that he is eligible in a couple of weeks here, boy, all of a sudden an interesting name to consider, eh, Mike Fuentes? Yeah, me and Gino were actually talking when you were talking to Albert about, like,

what the supplemental draft is because it's always something you're here about. Did I just make it clear he's Bert? Well, Albert, look, my dad's name was Albert, so I'm going to call him Albert. Albert the Allier. I don't think I called my dad Bert once in his life. Gino, did it? That's more like something for his friends. I don't think I ever called him anything but dad?

Yeah, I think I called him Al. But do you think he's a Bert or an Albert? He seems like a Bert. Breer. I can go with the Bert. Is Bert always Albert? Like, is Bert Reynolds, Albert Reynolds? No, when I think Bert, I think of like Bert and Ernie.

So I think it's almost like insult. Yeah, same one, Bert. Yeah, because that's like a... I think if you're Bert, B-U-R-T, I think that's it. I don't think you're Albert or anything. I think you're just Bert. Well, anyway, supplemental... Burnt Reynolds was Burton.

Burton Leon Reynolds Jr. See, now you could be messing up Albert Breer because what if people think his name is Burton? What if his name is Burton Breer? That's terrible. Although it rhymes. Go ahead. Explain.

Go ahead. Tell everybody about the supplemental. The supplemental draft. So it's something you always hear about. And you know that like Ethan, young Ethan, he thought, hey, you just lose a pick. But the way it's actually done is it's actually three separate lotteries, Dave. It's a team with six or fewer wins in Tier 1, the rest of non-playout teams in Tier 2, and then the 14 playoff teams in Tier 3.

So what it actually is is three separate lotteries to determine a draft order. So then you think, okay, well, now we're just making picks. No, it's a blind pick. You have to submit the name and the round you. would take the player and then if you get out bid by another team, that team gets the pick and then as we know that they lose that pick in the upcoming draft, the next draft. So we were thinking, you know. Let's do every draft that way.

Yeah. I agree with you. No, that does seem like a lot of fun, dude. That seems like a grand old time. So we were thinking, you know, it's funny that you were talking about this because me and Gina were talking off Mike. We're like, man, Cardinals, Jets, and Dolphins, ABN, the same exact three teams plus the Browns that Bert Breer had said.

I mean, I guess even the Steelers too. That was my next thing. Dave's eventually going to put the Steelers in that, which it all makes sense. And then Gino is like, yeah, and then Gino's like, well, you can't really give anything more than a second, right? Well, I mean, the smart thing would not to be

to give up anything more than a third, because then you can get a compensatory pick, you know, you can maybe make up for it in some way. But all these teams already have kind of a, you know, they kind of have some skin in the game in terms of a quarterback. You've got Carson Beck. They spent a third round pick on him. I mean, even Pittsburgh spent a third round pick on Drew Aller.

I should know this. I'm embarrassed to ask this. question, but I'm going to do it for the good of the football-loven public. What round pick did the Browns have to give up for Bernie Kosar? I think that if, you know, that's why I started with the question to Bert about the issue, you know, the gambling question and if that's just going to, you know, be a non-starter for teams. Because if you like him as a football player, if you think he is on par with Arch Manning, then what's in the way of using your first round pick? I'll tell you right now. of the future, eight months or 10 months before anybody else takes a swing at a QB.

If the Browns did what they did with Deshawn Watson, then this should be no problem. With the history he had. I've said it before, I'll say it again. I think, you know, if you think you're going to wind up with a top three overall pick, maybe that changes. But that's it, because a lot of these teams are in real dire straits. The Jets are probably going to finish up there. The Cardinals might be the worst team in the league. The Dolphins might be the worst team in the league.

I mean, Bert and I both just said it. You got to take swings. You got to keep taking swings. This counts is taking a swing at a high-end talent unless you think, well, we can't have him. He's a nairdue well. He bet on his team, and we don't want to bring that into our building. Well, the Browns took a big swing in the 1985 supplemental draft day. They gave up their first and third round in 1985 in their first and sixth round to the bills. To get the first-round pick in the supplemental draft.

Two first-round picks, a third-round pick and a six-round pick. So they made a bunch of trades just to get the number one pick. in the supplemental draft. And then I'm assuming they had to give up competition. It was to land Bernie Kozar. That's all. Yeah. Yeah, that's crazy. All right. I want to, listen, we have a lot to talk about. Now we're already out of time. Why? Because Dave doesn't shut his yap.

But as quickly as we can. I think this Knickerbockers thing reminds me of, I mean, I get it. It's the capital of the world, NYC. But it also takes on this thing. And I'm reminded of because I guess New York has maybe been out of the limelight in terms of its teams playing for a championship of late and so I've forgotten this feeling but New Yorkers have a way of making it seem like nothing matters unless it's in New York and that's and that that Amin al-Hasson declares that a title in New York is worth 100 anywhere else is a little bit of hyperbole. No I don't I don't know about that Dave I think he's right I think he's right but I'll tell you right now okay they they perpetuated that way yeah New York has a bigger influence on the rest of America than the

rest of us can see. Especially, but I'm allowed to be resentful of that. Especially in basketball. The Rangers winning the 94 Stanley Cup was not, what's that? Go ahead. No, especially in basketball when it comes to New York. Like, they're known as like basketball town, like basketball USA. New York, New York would move.

The Earth would literally move in New York if the Knicks won a title. We've seen the Giants win two titles in recent memory. And there were celebrations, sure. And when the Yankees won the title, there were celebrations, sure. but nothing would match the Knicks, especially since it's been since the 70s, since they actually brought home a title. So, yeah, this would be a mean-sitted on the show on Thursday.

Like, the city will burn to the ground, and they will not know, they will have nothing left. What a tribute to their heroes. We're going to burn the city down. I love the reflected powers that you become above the law for one night, at least, if your team wins the title. Weird. amidst all this Knickerbocker celebration is also the Jackson Dart stuff.

He introduced the president of the United States at a rally earlier in the week and is catching a lot of flack and a lot of praise for doing it. Before I jump in, let me say, I love free speech. It lets people tell on themselves. It's great. And I'm not saying Jackson Dart is doing that, but he is telling you where he stands on all of this. And you might remember a decade ago, like we talked about, Colin Kaepernick got himself into trouble. for taking a knee. And then Malcolm Jenkins of the Philadelphia Eagles built on that and raised a fist in support of what Kaepernick was doing. And he caught a lot of flack in Philadelphia.

And then his teammate Chris Long went over the next game and put his arm around Malcolm Jenkins. I asked Chris Long about that. Take a listen to his answer. Everybody's heart was in the right place, man. You know, just trying to be decent. And that's why some of the praise I got was a little uncomfortable for me because, like, I'm just being decent. And I do think like, as you fast forward eight, 10 years later, we are less decent than we've ever been as a country. And, you know, I got two takes landing pretty well this week. I think one of them is that Tua wasn't a starting quarterback.

And the other was that, you know, I didn't want to go to the White House to meet that individual twice. And I feel like a lot of people owe me apologies. for some of the criticisms and the messages I got because it really transcended politics. It is about decency. It's about patriotism. And I don't feel very patriotic right now. I don't think a lot of people do. By the way, that's not to say that Chris Long definitely agrees with Malcolm Jenkins on everything

that Malcolm Jenkins didn't. In fact, I never asked Chris Long, do you agree with him? Like I say, he transcended politics as much as that's politics. And he was merely decent. And maybe that's the place we need to get to. The idea that you're not allowed to use your voice, you know, as a celebrity, and that's what you are if you're the starting quarterback of the New York Giants, is you can have some influence on things.

To say that has no place in sports betrays the relationship that high-end athletes have had in American society for at least a century now, do you fellows know that Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig campaigned, for the Democratic presidential candidate, Al Smith in 1928, Will Chamberlain campaigned with Dick Nixon. You know who else campaigned with Dick Nixon back in 1960? Jackie Robinson. Jackie Robinson, then eight years later, campaigned against Dick Nixon when he figured out

who Dick Nixon was. But again, the point is that free speech is free, kind of, but it does have consequences to it. You know, Colin Kaepernick can tell you about that. Muhammad Ali can tell you about that. Bill Russell can explain it to you as well. I just think that maybe Jackson Dart doesn't, in our world in which all the movies now have multiverses, I think real life now, we live in a multiverse. I think there are, in fact, two realities for us. I don't think it ever entered Jackson's dart, Jackson Dart's mind or Abdul Carter's mind

to say like, wait, people think that way? I had no idea. I thought everybody would be on my side. Yeah, Dave, so I'm 41 years old now when people ask me, hey, you know, like, who are you as a person? Right? And I'm like, I didn't even realize who I think I was, so I was probably in my early 30s.

So I think we expect way too much of a 23-year-old kid who, let's face, has probably been handed everything to him since he was 15 years old, told he's the best at what he's doing, his whole life. He's a millionaire. You see his woman, he has not dealt with a whole lot of friction. Exactly. The biggest, probably the most sandpaper he's ever confronted in the last 15 years. I don't know if you're a first round pick in the NFL, Jackson.

We're just expecting way too much out of a 23-year-old, just turned 23 years old three months ago. Probably expecting way too much from that guy. Well, what I think it really comes back to is we can list off. I can say, well, here's why from the other side of things, here's why Donald Trump is problematic. or from the other other side, here's why I thought Joe Biden was problematic and go back and forth on all that. I think when you go at Jackson Dart and he should be made aware of the consequences and, you know, be asked why, did you come to this, did you arrive at your support of the president because of the poly side courses you took while you were at Ole Miss? Or is it just one of those things like religion that you accepted in your household, that your parents were aligned?

politically or philosophically or religiously in a certain way, and you followed suit. Because I bet you that that's the answer to all of this. He probably has not spent a ton of time considering that. And I think that's what Dan Lebitard and other people have gotten at this week is you should consider it. And if you're going to use your platform, you should at least be able to explain yourself. But I am all for standing up and using your voice for whatever you want to. You just need to understand, especially in the world we live in now. Not everybody's going to embrace it, right?

I think that's that. We've said it all. I don't know if I made any sense there. I'm trying to make sense of this divided reality in which we live. But I do appreciate Bert Breer for joining us for a little conversation. Amidst all that's going on here, enjoy your NBA finals, enjoy your Stanley Cup final. Prayers up to the people, Buffalo. Next century?

I don't know. Hope it'll be better for you. Until then. Thanks so much, my fellow football Americans. It's been a thin slice. I have...