The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Would Donovan Mitchell Win MVP If You Swapped Him With SGA? | Hour 2

Episode Date: May 14, 2026

"You're gonna go into battle against Nathan MacKinnon with Aho?" The gang dives into the reasons why James Harden, despite being an all-time great, is viewed so negatively by NBA fans. Is he the poster child for the NBA changing in a way that many people have not liked? What have we ever heard James Harden say other than Daryl Morey is a liar? Off of maybe the strangest livestream we've ever done last night, Mike tells us why this is the earliest in the playoffs he's known who will win the title in both the NBA and the NHL. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The 2026 Chevrolet Tracks is the stylish SUV for those on the move. And with the standard Chevy safety assist package, you have the backup to handle every turn with confidence. The 2026 tracks, start your build at Chevrolet.ca. This is the Dan Levator show with the Stugats podcast. Right now on the television Zaslo on first take, they are asking the question, are calves proving to be the tougher matchup for the NICS in the Eastern Conference?

finals. The thing that I wanted to ask you guys, if you've been listening to the show for a while, you've heard me say that Toronto, an otherwise good team, has exactly zero chance if it had faced the New York Knicks because of the matchup problems. Cleveland has been exposed the last few years. I don't get it, but they have more trouble with Mitchell Robinson. Their front line has more trouble with Mitchell Robinson than any team in the league. And he has rendered mobily useless a few times, and I think Jared Allen missed one of the series, but Cleveland pre-James Harden, no shot against the Knicks, zero percent shot, but James Harden changes things.

And the thing that I wanted to ask you guys, based on last night's game, okay, bit of a stunner, bit of a stunner, bit of a stutter for a couple of reasons. Detroit's Achilles' heel is offensive, and they are offensive on offense when they have four shot clock violations in the fourth quarter. Like they've got a big problem there that they don't quite have a James Harden. Cade Cunningham turns the ball over a lot, but they've got a lot of limitations. And there isn't a player who's cost himself more money this postseason than Jalen Dirk. Oh, wharf.

I mean, just dismantled in a way that's super weird for an All-Star. Like not a big-time player? I mean, just not an All-Star. Not proving to be an All-Star. Didn't play in the fourth or overtime. Well, they were plus 14 when he wasn't on the court. Last handful of games for Jalen Duren, 9, 5 rebounds, 4 assists, 8 points, 2 rebounds to assist. 11 points, 4 rebounds to assist.

How do you have 4 rebounds every game? 8 points, 10 rebounds, 1 assists. But this is what I'm telling you about what Mowbly and Allen can do to somebody like Duren. They can't do to the Knicks. Like they have serious issues on Mitchell Robinson, but James Harden and that trade is meant to be a difference maker. And the thing that I wanted to ask you guys and the audience, because I really am having trouble throughout the history of all sports, finding a perfect comp for what it is that I'm about to say, which is James Hardin is an all-time player. He is excellent in a way that cannot be

disputed. And yet, because he's representative of a time when some people have turned on basketball, and he represents some of the reasons that people have turned on basketball, playing for so many teams, questions about how much he cares, even though I'm telling you, you can't be an MVP of that league if you don't actually care. You're not going to be better than all of the world's best athletes not caring. There is no human being who's been born, who's not taking care of his craft,

who's not named Shaq, who can go into the league and just be better than everyone else while not caring. His style of play is also unlikable. So he also represents the advent of change in a league where you're like, I don't like how they're playing out here. Taking all these threes. I like it in the post. I like my basketball to be whatever it is that I remember.

So you end up with a player who's indisputably great, but is going to be diminished at every turn because people don't like what he represents. And there aren't a lot of players anywhere else in sports that are as good at what they do as James Hardin is at what he does. and are no one's favorite player? And furthermore, who's the team you associate him with? Is it, like, go ahead. Is it Houston?

I think it's Houston. Is it OKC? I think it's Houston. No, I think it's Houston. But you're right, it's good point because you could say, all right, Durant, Durant is bounced around and he doesn't really have a team, but there are plenty of people who, plenty of NBA fans who, Kevin Durant's their favorite player.

A lot of NBA fans who feel that way. I don't feel like there's, I don't feel like James Harden's, anyone's favorite play? Put it on the poll at Levitard show. Is James Hardin anyone's favorite player? He also has the label, and more than just about anybody going in sports right now, someone who's going to shrink in big moments. And last night could have been one of those moments. He missed three free throws. Like, at the end of that game, when it's being decided, he grabbed the rebound on one of them, which Detroit can't allow. But he took six free throws, missed three of them. He was trying to give them the game. Yeah, I was watching that game.

I'm like, are these teams ass? Yes. Is this just a bad East? That's a one seed from Detroit and watching them over these last few months. And I know they had the injury to Cape Cunningham, but now he's back. They seem to be really struggling. I'm not impressed with any of these teams.

I was watching that game. I'm like, these are both unsurious teams. That was the issue with Detroit. And I mean had talked about it a bunch. Like if you don't have a secondary player, if Duren can be what Duren was when he was on fire during the regular season, okay, great. You got a post presence that could really score.

But when he's out of the game, you do not have a player that can help Kate Cunningham get a shot off. I think it's, I don't think it's two teams are ass. I think it's two teams who are not good enough for this moment. You know, Detroit, Cade Cunningham has been phenomenal. Yes, the turnovers are bad. But he's doing everything by himself. But the turnovers are bad. James Harden had six of those last night.

That was not a good James Harden. They'll point out 30 points, but it was. inefficient. It was inefficient. And at the end, he did some things that could have very easily stained him. Yeah, that missed free throw provided, I mean, he got the rebound, right? If he doesn't get the rebound, who knows how that game unfolds? I got a comp. Now, he's done some winning, but also he plays in a sport that affords you multiple times a year to potentially win a trophy. But a lot of the things that play with James Hardin play to Namor. Flops. Doesn't take the game seriously. Can he actually be your best player on a championship team? This guy has so many

God-given gifts, but he seems like he likes playing poker and partying more than the actual game. I think Namor is a really good comp. Do you guys have many others? And what I'm asking for, basically, is somebody who is eternally excellent. Somebody who there is no dispute. You can try to knock him down because you don't like him? And you can certainly criticize that he hasn't won or say whatever you want about his big moments. But there is no disputing that James Hardin is an all-time scorer. And yet is so, if not disliked, not liked enough that he would be, A, nobody's favorite

player, B, continually diluted in regards to his excellence because people don't like all the things that I'm talking about, which he's a bit of a poster child for the last, I don't know, 10 years of the NBA where the game gets changed in a way that not everybody likes, and therefore they downgrade his excellence. I think I've got one guy who played for a lot of teams, all-time great, came off somewhat unlikable,

probably not anyone's favorite player, Terrell Owens. Terrell Owens is a good one, but when I point to like Ricky Henderson or Gets, Sheffield or Terrell Owens, I'm also having the added bonus of that's a personality type that whatever is objectionable. Hardin's not that. Like Hardin's all playing style and job choices, right? But it's not his personality that's bothering you. It's the way he's playing basketball if you do indeed not like him or drowngrade him.

But these other three guys that have bounced around a lot or their excellence gets diminished, you have no misunderstanding as to why it is they've bounced around. It's not, it's who they are as people, not as players. That's personality-wise, like, what have we ever heard James Hardin say outside of Daryl Moore as a liar? Yeah, but the thing that James Hardin, it is a great moment, but the thing that James Hardin also ushers in is the era of the Kardashians, the all of it. Like, the thing you associate with James Hardin is, oh man, he likes himself some stripper.

clubs. Like that's what the jersey in the rafters. That's what the personality is. That's right. Put James Hardin's jersey in the only one they'll be in. Wasn't T.L.

great in the Super Bowl he played in him? He was fantastic in the Super Bowl. That does eliminate him a little bit. He, for whatever reason, he is emblematic of this. And he's not a guy that doesn't, like, he plays. He doesn't do a lot of these maintenance programs that the other guys do. But he just forces his way out of teams. And everyone looks at him and realizes that there's more potential.

particularly on the defensive end too. He's as gifted an offensive two-guard as we've seen in that league. Like, seriously, Mount Rushmore talent at the two-guard position. Yeah, but I don't believe that there's more potential in James Harden. He's an MVP. He's reached his potential. Like, he's not- Zero championships with, like, Mount Rushmore Two-Gard capabilities.

And he's not going to win a championship. No, because you can feel it. It's just tangible. You should try harder. I feel like I've got a decent comp pre-broadcasting. and career, Charles Barkley. Yeah, I don't think, you guys are doing something here, though, with the winning of a championship or the lack of a winning of a championship that I'm not doing.

I'm putting that off to the side, whether Terrell Owens plays well in a Super Bowl or not, is something I'm putting over there. We can have a reasonable discussion about whether James Hardin deserves to be in sports, viewed as the number one choker that there is anywhere in sports, and that's one kind of conversation to have about him. him, but it's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the inability to be a favorite player. I'm talking about being representative of a time in basketball, which represents a shift that you're sort of the face of, which is what Mike is saying, which I find unfathomable, right?

Asking James Harden to try harder, I can feel you're not trying hard enough, and the guy wins MVP's makes it feel like you're saying the reason he wins MVP's because the sports been distorted. It's not because of how excellent he actually is. It's because we've changed so much that we're allowing the guy to take 15-3s a game. And I don't like that. And he becomes emblematic of this thing that I don't like. But Dan, that's the change that the NBA has seen most recently. Like, there was a long stretch of time where the NBA didn't change until that moment.

Right? Like, you talk about Charles Barkley, he was, was he anybody's favorite player? Yes. Oh, yeah. I bought his book. Okay, I'm from a young generation. definitely still loves Barclay. I would imagine Phoenix still loves Barclay. He was my favorite player growing up. Like, I don't know. Does Houston love Hardin still? I think in Houston. What makes

it hard with him is that he's traveled around so much and it usually doesn't end great. But when he was at Houston, there were a lot of people saying Hardin's my favorite player. He was very marketable. Hey, it's Greg Cody's inner monologue. You know, every friend group has that one person who's somehow better at summer than everybody else. Weekends, you'll never see me without a beer in my hand. Straight up, that time is Miller time. As soon as I finish the column, I'll say a little something. Head over to the garage.

Crack open, an ice-cold Miller light. And I'll stay there. For a good 90 minutes, listen to my own voice, watch back some videos, see some feedback of people loving me. Then I'll send a voice note to Yeti or something, and then... More, you know, about myself. More talking about myself.

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It does. You usually take the credit for it. But again, it's the Quervo effect. It's like that moment in a big game where everyone in the crowd just starts standing up, hooting and hollering. Keep it quervo. Keep it quervo, baby. The Cup is taking over the U.S. And only Draft King Sports has you fully covered.

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Ends June 28. Terms at DKNG.org slash audio. Don Lebertard. World R3. Stugats. We're going to get that off the ground. World Rar 3, colon, our group chat has a pretty good feeling about this one.

This is the Dan Levitar show with the Stugats. Well, when you guys, though, talk about, say, Charles Barkley or another example, Alan Iverson, James Hardin is a better basketball player than Alan Iverson, and yet will not be regarded as such because I believe people don't like a ton around him, But when you mention Iverson and Charles Barkley, or even Terrell Owens, really, there are plenty of people who like the guy who's rebellion. James Hardin's not that. No.

Like there are plenty of guys, there are plenty of people who like the polarizing guy just because he's the anarchist. Alan Iverson represents a time where a lot of people liked his style. The thing that James Hardin is doing is he's either causing indifference or anger, but he's not causing what Iverson and Barclay did, which is rallying a bunch of fans around. No, I want to embrace this guy, want to be associated with this guy, want to wear his jersey,

want to be about what this guy's style is away from basketball. That's why Namor, I think, is a perfect comp. It's because of the style of play, too. It's the flopping, and it's like, well, you hack the system. You take a bunch of threes, and you put your elbow out, trying to get to the line where you can have a 30-point game, and I look at your box score,

I'm like, this was a bad game. That's the stuff that a generation of basketball fans absolutely hates. And SGA, who's such an innocuous personality, it's falling on him. The playing style, much like Namor, bothers people. The style of play and the choking is number one for Hardin. But also, I think we're forgetting to mention, a huge part of what turns off the fan base is eventually at every spot except for Oklahoma City, he quits. like quitting is the thing that a sports fan hates more than anything. He quits when he's not happy.

That's way up there in the dislike. Again, emblematic of the time, though, correct? Like, guy who changes teams doesn't have an allegiance to any one place. You're never going to associate him with what Sedano was saying is Kobe's in L.A. And LeBron will never get to top him because he spent the entire time in L.A. Something we talked about yesterday, and it was too glancing for my liking, and I'd like to bring up again with you guys to see if we can have a different discussion around it, because we were talking about Donovan Mitchell and the idea of can you win a title if that's your best player? And the question I wanted to ask you guys, if I swap out Donovan Mitchell and SGA, is Mitchell winning the MVPs? Like if I just swap them out, if I trade them for each other, am I getting a championship team in?

OKC because SGA is somebody who style a lot of people also don't like, but he's not going to have some of the problems. Hardin has because he's associated with one team. That team really loves him. They've seen him grow up. He's won a championship there. There are no questions about his personality or how much he cares. But if I take Donovan Mitchell and I just swap it out and I just trade them for each other,

is Donovan Mitchell winning the MVP with the same usage rate that SGG? has at OKC. That's top of the heap. That's pretty tough. It's a good question. Should we put it on the poll? I was making the argument that if you put them on that Boston team and you swap out Tatum for Donovan Mitchell, I think Donovan Mitchell becomes an all-time legend. It's what made me think of it when we left the show because Boston also hacked the system for a year and made me wonder about some of these things.

Go ahead and put that on the poll as well, even though it's a super sportsy poll question. if I replaced SGA with Donovan Mitchell, is Donovan Mitchell now the champion MVP? Yes or no? I don't think he's the MVP. I think they're a worst team from a wins-loss perspective in the regular season, but I think in the playoffs, they're still leveled with where they are right now. Even though SGA is amazing in his own right,

what they've built around SGA will allow Donovan Mitchell to step in there, and all of a sudden, Chet is more important, J-dub is more important, their bench guys become more important, but it's really close. The reason I do it with Donovan Mitchell, though, I think if I ask you guys the same question on Jimmy Butler, you're not as eager to entertain it as a possibility as if I say it on Donovan Mitchell,

because Donovan Mitchell is a better scorer than Jimmy Butler. No, that was literally the example that I cited. Yes, I think he could have been good enough to win a championship as the best player on a team with that Miami team. And Miami swung out twice trying to get him. If you put him on that team with Bam and Jimmy Butler, then Bam doesn't have to be your second best guy. Jimmy doesn't have to be your best guy.

And Donovan very clearly is your best guy. And I think he would have been able to win a championship down here is probably a great regret of Pat Riley's. I think if you replaced Shayy Otis Alexander with Jimmy Butler on this Thunder team, like Butler from four or five years ago with the heat, I think Butler is potentially the MVP of the league. And they win the championship. The reason I bring up Jimmy Butler is because for a long time when he was an eight seed before he did

things in Miami. He's the one guy in the NBA that was getting hit a lot with the idea of, yeah, good player. Can't be top guy. But can't be the best player on your team if you want to be a champion. I don't know how many guys, give me the number that you guys think that I can put in front of you where just guys in the league that you can say, without question, if he's your best player, you can win a champion. Do you want to try and create this list? Because we gave it to Anthony Edwards, and I give it to Anthony Edwards, even though he has not done it. And what I'm holding against Donovan Mitchell, though, is that outside of last year, he's generally not going to be a top seed. But I can also say, man, Donovan Mitchell probably hasn't had as good a number two as the one that he has right now.

Like, isn't this the best number? And they've got similar skill sets. so they have to somewhat take turns every once in a while between Hardin and Donovan Mitchell on the usage rate. I mean, it's a hard thing when there are certain players that have already done it, and I still don't actually believe it. Like, Jalen Brown, we've seen them be the best player in an NBA finals and won a championship, right? But they ran into teams that lost their best player. Even in that finals, they lost Kyrie. Is he the best player on that team? I mean, he won the MVP.

I know, but Andre Goddala won a finals MVP. He's not the best player on that team. That's why I'm asking that. I mean, it's pretty close. You know me. I'm a hain' ass hater when it comes to Jason Tatum. I think it's probably like a dozen to 15 guys in the league. No way. You think there's less?

That's way less. A dozen to 15 guys is so many guys that could be the best player. No way. Yeah, I think it's probably at least a dozen guys. Let's see. Okay, we've got a no-way competition here. So you're saying that. No way. Let's see if you can name a dozen guys.

You throw them Tony's way and we will see. All right, you're ready? We will see. Tony, you've got to give him yes or no. I don't want elaborations. I want yeses and no. You shouldn't have to think too hard. Kate Cunningham.

No. This is already crazy. Jason Tatum. Yes. Jalen Brunson. Yes. Donovan Mitchell. No.

Tari's Maxi. No. Palo Boncaro. No. Yana Sanchez Ocumpo. Yes. Tari's Halliburton. No.

Sheikyodor Alexander. Yes. Victor Wanbanima. Yes. Nicola Yokic. Yes. Lukaj. Yes.

Anthony Edwards. Yes. It's going to be a lot more than 12, dude. Kevin Durant. No. Devin Booker No Kauai Leonard

No Steph Curry What? No one Kauai What do you mean He's won a bunch He's won a bunch You're talking about right now

He's not the best player On a team He won the best seasons Right now But that's past He's talking about right now He had a really good year He did he has best season ever

He had the best season ever If you plug him in on OKC right now I'm not asking you can the Clippers Why They win the championship Steph Curry Yes Zion Williamson

No. Cooper Flag. No. John Morant. No. How many we have to? John Morant. Like eight or nine? No one was keeping track.

Nobody, it seems like no one was... I started writing up... I don't have a pen. I stopped writing at the quiet answer. I got so mad. Roy, you're sorry about that. You're sorry about that. Tony can say I was talking.

I was trying to answer. You're sorry about that on I don't have a pen and that's the only way I can count. pins on the other side of desk. In Roy's defense, I have a pen and did not keep track. Leon Drysidal. In Roy's defense, also, he's really tired from last night and what I believe to be the strangest live stream we've ever done because of the teams involved. So there were two comebacks last night that I thought were fairly majestic, Colorado coming back against Minnesota, and Cleveland shouldn't have won that game last night. Like if more people cared about the Detroit Pistons,

they'd be slamming them for choking in that game and having things like four shot clock violations in the fourth quarter and their win probability when there were three minutes it left in that game. Their win probability was over 96%. What did you guys think about the end of regulation? Do you call either of those fouls at the end of regulation? No. The one that was obvious on Donovan Mitchell and the one that was obvious by Jared Allen.

I understand why they didn't call it. We were talking about it here before the show started. I'm like, man, that was even a frustration foul. Like, Alan is meant to do it. And Tony Brothers' explanation, because a pool to porter caught up with him after the game, Tony Brothers' explanation was bullshit. Yeah. That it was incidental contact.

No, it wasn't. I'm telling you what he said. But the broadcasters also framed it that way. That's not, if that game is on mute and you don't have the commentators couching it as like, well, like he tripped them up. That looked like a frustration foul. We just blew the game and Alan kind of lost his mind. So low IQ play from Jared Allen.

So lucky. Like that's a foul. I'm glad they didn't call it. That's a foul at any other time and any other basketball game being played. It's a foul. He got mad lucky and everyone just understood. No one wanted to make that call, but he should have been punished for that lapse in judgment.

Zebra's got to swallow the whistle there. And he did. And he did. I'm saying at that point, you cannot make it about you. I think also part of why. We're both going for the ball. I think also part of why I'm good with them not calling it, Detroit was up nine and didn't score in the final three minutes of the game. Like, get out of here with your foul.

Four 24-second violations crease. Your loose ball foul with no time remaining to go to the free throw line. Like, I'm over that. I appreciate you guys understanding the situation. I mean, could have used that kind of refereeing in the battle court final? You can't let it end on a double fault. Especially when it was that close. That has to be one of the more obscure ones we did.

We did like a mid-week high-lie stream. ended up being a, you know, a playoff preview, to be fair. Roy, you feel like you're hurt by me pointing out that it was a strange couple of teams to be playing in our live stream that we're covering live Colorado Avalanche and Minnesota Wild. You don't think that those are strange teams for us to be doing? Well, first of all, you got the best team in the league versus possibly the third best team in the league in a second round matchup in an elimination game. So there's that.

Who's who? It's a playoff game. I hate this playoff format. How dumb is the format? Because you know, you could make a solid argument. Carolina would probably protest. They played the seven and eight. Two of the top three teams remaining in the playoffs.

It's so dumb. And you can clip this if I'm wrong and I'll wear it. I've never been more certain at this stage of a playoff of who the two main champions are going to be. It's okay. See? the only thing that can stop them is Wembe, and it's going to be Colorado. Colorado is so much better than everybody else. Carolina?

They are so much better than everybody else. You're going to go into battle against Nathan McKinnon with Aho? Oh, I know. I cannot wait to watch Carolina lose that series. Aho. Supid Aho is what you just called. I don't know if you guys agree. It feels like this playoffs, though, in general, is just missing a little something.

It is. Right? Us. It's definitely us. Us. It's definitely ours. It's missing a little juice. Expedia.

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This is a different team. You're a Panther group chat, though. No, I think, no, but dude, you're so wrong on that. We've been terrified at this team forever. And I think there's a different energy where the Panthers, they want the lightning. Stugats. I want T-shirts made for this Panther run. What could be this Panther run?

Our Panther group chat, we're not afraid of the lightning. That's a tagline for World R3. This is the Dan Lebatar show with the Stugats. The basketball playoffs are missing a couple of different things, right? Last night's was a good game and it was a close game and an overtime game. There haven't been a ton of those. There has not been a ton of drama. Also hasn't been a ton of controversy or storylines.

And when you talk to me about what happened with the end of Jared Allen's night and Cleveland's night last night, do you guys realize that what you are doing there by saying, glad the referees didn't blow the whistle. One of the things you're doing is you're rescuing Jared Allen from an all-time dumb moment in Cleveland sports history. But what you're also doing is you're denying us what would have happened today, which is, if Jared Allen had been called for that foul,

no one would object to it being called a foul. Because it was so obviously a foul, it would have turned immediately into Jared Allen, you idiot. It would not have become another officiating story. Like maybe there would have been some people saying you don't call that in that spot, but it was obvious enough as a foul that people would not have been saying that wasn't a foul. They may have said you don't call that in that spot,

but there wouldn't have been anyone saying that's not a foul. So they let something go at the end of that game because of the situation in the stakes. And it's what I always want. I want an arbiter to use judgment. I don't want an arbiter to do letter of the rule. I could get AI to do letter of the rule. Jared Allen got bailed out there by the fact that in this one instance, Tony Brothers decided to not be Tony Brothers because of the game situation,

but only because of the game situation. It was only stakes in game situation because we're all agreeing, right? Absolutely a foul. What Jared Allen did there at any other time during the game when Thompson falls to the floor like that, that is called a foul. You want to hear J.B. Bickerstaff coach of the Pistons? Here he is after the game.

He foul to Sarr. It's bad. I mean, it's clear. He trips him when he's going for a loose ball, in the game situation. You know, that's tough. Thoughts? Like, just you guys are good with the referee deciding

that my job is to call fouls and, you know, apply the rules, and no one would disagree with the fact, the fact that that was a foul. I just, I don't think they deserve the call. They went scoreless, the final three minutes blew a nine. Wow, you're adding even more context to it. So it's not about the play. It's about the last three minutes of the game. It's fair.

It would have been one hell of a bailout for a team that choked it away. They didn't earn that call. And I do think that's part of the human judgment there. Yeah, they didn't earn it. But it, and even, even Jay Beale. kind of positioned it as a trip. I don't even think so. I think Jared Allen kind of forgot what moment it was there and just did a little frustration thing at the end. When you say are the Detroit Pistons the number one seat in the Eastern Conference ass when you say that it is absolutely

a byproduct of them trying to win in the modern age with a style that is for cavemen and dinosaurs because they're trying to do it with physicality and defense and four shot clock violations in the fourth quarter of a playoff game. It's just you are super constipated and your second All-Star is shrinking and can't be on the court at the end of the game because you're plus 16 when he's not on the court. It's like the opposite of the NHL regular season where last year you see a team like the Washington Capitals and you're like that style. Yeah, they're getting a lot of points in the regular season, but that's not a playoff style. And here in the regular season, they just are effort all the time. Max effort, a hard team to play. I don't want to play Detroit on the back end of a back-to-back.

Are you kidding me? And then when they get to the playoffs, their talent just doesn't match out. The Pistons are Cains Basketball. Like, they won a lot of regular season games and they lose in the second round. But Cain's Basketball can be Cain's Basketball if no one around you can shoot. It can't be Pistons Basketball when everyone's flying around in spaces, taking threes, and you're out there in a Studebaker. or throwing elbows like,

Ouga, trying four shot clocked by elections in the fourth quarter? I'll correct you. It was part of the strategy to hit the rim with Kane's basketball. They can't do that in Detroit. Let's talk for a second, though, about the changes in the sport

that make the Knicks a team that could score 81 points by the half against the Sixers, and the Pistons are still out here doing it with a playoff style from the 90s. Because do you know how disorienting it is for me to watch the Knicks? score 81 points and a half when I used to watch playoff basketball that didn't get that high in a game for the Knicks.

And it makes me wonder when I go back and look from this perspective, how was I tolerating Knicks Heat Basketball that was in the 70s? Oh, so good. No, but if I put that in front of you right now, you'd be saying what Mike is saying about Detroit and Cleveland are ass. Not me. He's saying they're ass. You've got basically, when they announced the starting line.

lineup ass, not All-Star, ass, ass, ass, because you got four shot clock violations in the fourth quarter of a playoff game where you just can't even get the shot off. What is that? It's the problem when they don't have a secondary score. Like last year, Malik Beasley hit 3003s with six men of the year and then got run out of the sport by Pablo Tori. You say that Tobias Harris isn't a secondary scorer, but he has been in that series. The guy was throwing up bricks last night.

One for seven in the fourth quarter. It was terrible. Look. Look like you out there. I think you'd go one for seven. That's actually a compliment for you. Why are you coming after me? I think you would hit one for seven.

Why didn't you say looked like Chris Cody in a red bathrobe out there? Like, why'd you come after me? Yeah. Because I'm 57? No, because you got Harry's shoulders. It'd be funny to see you in the jersey. Harry's serious. Harry shoulders.

Well, you know what's funny? I do. I do. I'm going to send you guys something right now. I don't need to see your shoulders. No, it's not my shoulders and I don't have Harry shoulders. But show Roy. I don't have Harry shoulders. You said you did a couple seconds ago.

No, what I said is that I have here something that I want to put on the screen very quickly because there was, I sent this to a mean the other day. There was a promo for the Celtics basketball game that had Bill Russell in it, and he was going up against an Atlanta Hawk who had hairy shoulders. And I'm like, and so I was just sending it to people, Hey, how did Bill Russell dominate this particular era? And they just showed some guy who had looked like he had wigs on both of his shoulders. Like, had so much hair on his shoulders that you had to downgrade how good a basketball player that actually was,

even though it wasn't a bad basketball player, just based on the amount of hair in his shoulders. Because it looked like the guys that Philip Seymour Hoffman was playing against when he went Rain Man and Ben Stiller got a smell. hairy, sweaty belly in his face that he had to lick. And I can't imagine how many times Ben Stiller had to do that scene unpleasantly, licking the hairy belly of a sweaty one-on-one player. What's going on in basketball? I've gone back to the NBA finals since 2019. And it's unlike any era that we've ever seen in this sport. Typically, when a team makes it to the NBA finals, they have staying power. They're going to be in the conversation for four years, five years at the very least. They're going to be a fixture in the playoffs. Outside of Boston and OKC, you've had some

teams completely fall off aim quickly. Now, I know there's player movement, and I know contextually there have been some injuries. But since 2019, we're talking Raptors, Warriors, Denver, Lakers, Pacers, Mavs, Bucks, Suns, Heat. What is happening in this sport? Is it because of the style of play that allows you to get really hot one season and you don't actually have staying power? Because all these teams can play this same style, and it's just a matter of a three-point contest? Let's think about this for a second, because I'm trying to think, when I think of the Nets of Vince Carter, right, they go, they visit for a year, but they get knocked off by the Spurs. The Spurs stick around for a while, but the Nets can only get there for a couple of seasons. I think it was pre-Vince Carter.

I think this era in the Eastern Conference stand, that's the exact same example that I use. I think the East is so ass, it reminds me of the years that the Nets kept going up against the Spurs. The funny thing about what you're saying, though, is I wouldn't have argued two years ago that the Celtics were asked. No, I put them in my list of two teams that have had staying power. And they just got bouncing the first round. Yeah, but what just happened to them was something that surprised me because I'm expecting the Celtics to be around for a while. And you're not wrong when you say, historically, that doesn't get knocked. off in the first round. Seeing Denver knocked off in the first round after winning a championship

to me was a celebration of how tough the West is, but that's not what I'm doing with the Celtics and the East. Well, yeah, for Boston, I mean, it also hurts that Jalen Brown clearly wants out. Like, that's, like, that's going to hurt their staying power. I mean, again, they're probably, they're on the metal stand. Gold standard type of saying power in this era since 2019, and they've even reshape their team. There are teams that have completely fallen off that have kept their stars, like the heat, like the suns, like the bucks. I think this has basically become a league where if you get hot or you go cold in the postseason from long distance, is that not good? That is history altering where before you had teams that if you had your guys under contract for four years,

you'd be there every year. You can't say that. I mean, seven months after making it to the finals, are destined for the number one pick in the league. It's crazy. It's seven straight years of a brand new champion. That's never happened in this league. What he's doing there, though, the thing that he's doing there that is, it's Milwaukee going from being that good to being awful. Indiana

going from being that good to being awful. Dallas going from being that good to being awful. But there's answers for all that, right? Yonis got hurt. They didn't have a good team around them. Halliburton Taurus Achilles were completely done. I understand. There's a lot of injuries in that list that throw off those guys from

context, explain Denver, right? I know there's... Great Western Conference. There's been player movement now for like 25 years in this sport and guys suffered through injuries. Look, when the Miami Heat lost their best player in Alonzo morning, they were still upset in the first round of the playoffs. They got to the playoffs. You're having teams become lottery teams now in the NBA. I think it's become a sport with a lot more variance in terms of all-time greatness. I'd also like to amend my list of yeses earlier. I want to throw Kauai back into the yes column after some stuff

and also Cade I want to throw back into the yes call. All right so we're closer to 15 is what we're doing. I don't know. Roy didn't keep count. Didn't have a pet. Didn't have a pet. Chris didn't keep count. It's the combination though Mike. It's the variances on the threes and also just a spectacular amount of injuries that make it so the players are broken because the sports a little bit

broken. Ass, ass! Hey y'all's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder what if, like what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what-if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.ca.

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