The Dating Detectives - Definitely Not Blackmail

Episode Date: June 19, 2023

Welcome back for Season 2 of The Dating Detectives! We hope you didn't miss us too much! In this episode Mackenzie and Hanna talk to two incredible women with similar dog-fish stories. Together they discuss their experience and bond over their shared trauma.  ***The following Program contains names, places and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following Program is provided for entertainment purposes only and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 for support.***See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following program contains names, places, and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only, and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7-233 for support. We're back. Hi, Mackenzie. Girl. Okay, so Mondays are usually like, for people, right? But today is a special Monday because we're finally back from our break.

Is everyone excited? I'm so excited. We're sorry about the break. I hope it was okay for everybody, but we have a really great episode today. We're just so excited to get back into it. Yeah, we are, we missed you, first of all. Second of all, thank you for hanging tight with us and connecting with us on our socials and just staying in touch with us. So just to make up for the break, we are bringing you a double whammy today because we have two women who are going to be on the show together telling parallel stories. And so we are, we, it's a wild ride. I did.

We loved the Audi episode with Mr. Audi Fuck Fast. Shout out to Fuck Fast fam. Not Mr. Audi. But shout out to the women that are there. Not sponsored by Audi. If you haven't listened, go back and listen.

But the women on that episode had developed a friendship after what they've been through. So we liked the idea of continuing that kind of community support with these stories. So we wanted two people who had been through something similar, but they don't know each other, to share their stories and see if they could, I don't know, come together and know that they're not alone. So that's what we got, y'all. Y'all? Oh, no. I'm bringing you to the Florida to the Los Angeles.

She said y'all. I love y'all. It's one of my favorite four-letter word. I would love to sound like McKenzie by the end of this. I'm going to work on my southern accent a little bit. You should hear me when I get angry. You're super hyped up and then the southern really comes out. So, okay, we need to get into it.

Are you ready to hear? Are you, I'm ready to go. I'm ready to go. Okay, guys, let's go. Let's go ahead. Let's get into it. Hey, Caroline. Hey there. Good morning.

Good morning. It's so nice to meet you. and we're so glad to have you on the podcast. The dating detectives are so excited to hear your story, but I don't know if it's excited in a good way. So we're grateful. We're grateful. We'll say that. Yeah. Thank you, Hannah. Okay, Caroline, take us away. Let's see what we got. So I had been working with John for a couple of years. He was my direct superior. And during our time that we worked together, everything was super professional. We all got along. I did. leave to pursue another adventure. I was given a great opportunity. And so when that opportunity had completed,

I was looking to start up on a new project and needed a letter of reference. So I called John, my past boss. Who better? Can I say, hey, listen, I'm looking for a new position. Could you write a letter of recommendation for me? He said, absolutely. So we get to talk in a little bit. And he tells me that he is going through a separation. And it was the saddest thing because his kids, and so we talked through it. And he said, you know, I remember when you went through your divorce, you made sure that for all that was going on with the adults, you kept it easy for the kids. I said, yeah, thank you. I appreciate you remembering that. And he said, I'd really like to make that happen for my kids as well. And I said, well, gosh, however I can I can help? I fixer. I want to fix everything. He said, can I call you back and talk more about the kids? If it comes down, absolutely, you call me anytime. So this starts, you know, we talk every week and every week and every few days. And we start building this relationship because he's a really fun, charismatic. person. So we decided that it would be good for us to meet. So I said, come on down to Charlotte where I lived. And he did and stayed in a hotel and we went out to dinner a couple of times. And I got to be honest, it really just clicked. And so time went by and I had a regimen with the kids every other

weekend with their dad. So he went to his attorney and got his custody for the during the separation change to the same weekends. So he does all this. Again, we're traveling fabulous places. He is kind. He is generous. We see each other every other weekend. In fact, at the point, we got an apartment together in D.C. Because it's kind of in between where we were. So you're living together, yes? No, because I still worked down in Charlotte and he still had his big time job where he lived. And so we would go every other weekend we were meeting in D.C. So you had an apartment together that you got to connect with, that you got to connect at whenever you could. Yeah. I could take an easy flight. He could take the train. And so we get this place in D.C.

There's lots of things that happened, but let's get down to why we're here. So we were looking for a new place in D.C. And we were looking online, my head over his shoulder. And he always kept his phone on his knee. But it was generally face down. Well, this time it just happened to be face up. And all of a sudden, I see a place. pop up and it says, good morning, MTL. You mean my true love? That's our statement. That was our thing. Good morning, MTF. And I stood up and I was like, you have to explain everything to me. He's like, I just have to go to the bathroom. I don't feel well. I bet you don't feel well. I hate that. So we run to the bathroom. Ten minutes later, hands me his phone. He says, you can look at everything. Oh, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for that conversation. Thank you. That's awesome.

He's like done a hard reset. Everything's gone. He went to the Apple store really quick and just got a new one. He called tech support. Like what? So wait. Okay. So hold on.

So everything's fine. And then how long- Oh, it's beautiful. How long had you guys been seeing each other up to that point? A year and a half? Okay. So a year and a half, everything's great. You're on the same custody schedule.

You guys are enjoying each other's company. And you fit very well into each other's lives, it sounds like. like it was almost the perfect thing you needed? It was, and I'll tell you that I am, because I'm a fixer and I've just been through this whole divorce gig, he would say, well, maybe it's time you meet my girls. Absolutely not. I should not meet those girls until you were fully divorced. I drew him a roadmap of how to get away with all this.

So in the interim, he had met my friends, my coworkers, he met my kids, my ex-husband. So all of this comes to a head, and he says, I'm really sorry. this is someone I used to work with. And I was just about to go see her. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay, so a year and a half year together, you're meeting up when you can on the weekends, when you have this apartment together.

And then you see on his phone, MTO, which is not a common statement. Like, that's not like, one, four, three on the beepers. You should be like, I love you. Do you remember that, Hannah? No, you're too young. But you, okay. So when we had a beeper,

you would type in like 143. That means I love you. I'm going to start sending you. you 143, McKenzie. Okay. And he says this is someone I used to work with. I was just going to go see her. No big deal.

Oh, no. I mean, he kind of copped to, this is somebody I used to have a relationship with, and we've been talking again. And I flew home immediately and was like, be done. About a week goes by, he gets back in touch, and he is gone into therapy because he knows what he has done is wrong.

And could I please forgive him and know that he's working with Dr. Phil and blank, don't even know. I did Google him and he was a psychiatrist. Well, fast forward, I decide fine. You're going to see doctor, whomever. And hopefully this will help you. We patched it up because he was seeking help. And so a little bit of time goes by and he was headed to this little tiny town with his kids. And I knew he was a Marriott guy. And so I decided to call. And I said, put me through to John's room, please. And ring, ring. And this woman's voice answers. And I said, could I please speak with John?

And she said, who is this? And I said, what? Could I please speak with John? She puts him on the phone. And I go, what in the world is going on? And he goes, you have the wrong number. Hangs up. I text, right?

I'm like, can't get those fingers going fast now. I'm like, what in the world is going on? He's like, I am here with my wife and family, and you're going to have to leave us alone. Wait, wait, hold on. I need a time. Before the hotel call, how long had it been since you guys connected? Oh, so this would have been just another two months. So two months after you found this MTL on his phone, that's when the hotel thing happened? Right. Oh, what? So let me break it down for you. Yes. He was cheating on his wife with me and was cheating on me with MTL.

So there was, okay, so I wasn't sure There was an actual MTL? I thought MTL was like his wife. He was saying, oh, it was just an ex. So there's three, so there's three women. Oh, boy, this is a triangle. Where does he have the time? Girl, I don't know.

So during the year and a half that you were with him before the MTL discovery, was there anything suspicious? Did anything, any red flags, anything like that? Like, it was just like all willy-nilly. Like everything is just fine. We're doing great. Nothing stood out.

I kid you not. Nothing stood out. When I think back on it, it's certainly a psychopathy of sorts because literally never caught in a lie. And there were so many lies. And I am not an unintelligent person. Obviously. No, this has nothing. Let's just make it clear for you and our listeners.

Like, this has nothing to do with intelligence. This is not your. fault. This is being bamboozled by someone has nothing to do with intelligence at all whatsoever. He took advantage of you. He's cheated on you. He's cheated on his wife. Like, oh my God. When you're in a situation like this, I'm like, look what I've done to a family. Oh, but I haven't, right? I'm better in that headspace now. But dear God, at the time, it was bone crushing. Do you have any relationship with his wife or like what happened when you, it blew up? She did eventually get in touch with me. And I said, I will have a phone call with you. I want to validate

things that may be question marks in your head. I want to be here in order to make you feel sane. But also, you want to protect yourself from you. You don't know her. And you never know. When we got on the phone, boy, did she have questions? You know, one time she said, he was, he was sitting in the den on a Friday afternoon. and he got a phone call and said, I have to go to London for work and walked out the door with a suitcase. What? She said, was he in London? No, he was not in London for the 4th of July weekend.

Oh my God. So when you called Marriott, like there was no suspicion at all? Or was there maybe a little bit? There was because, remember, this was after the whole MTF debacle. Right. And so I didn't take everything at face value. Well, you trusted your femme tuition to give him a call. So I'm glad that work out.

Thank you. And, you know, I think that there's a lot of stigma that comes with doing your own investigation. A lot of people will use that to say, oh, she looked into me. She tried to find me. She's a psycho. And can we just chalk that up to being incredibly smart? Like, hello, we are innately, like, investigative as women. And they have to be.

Can't we just give us a little bit of credit? Yes, like this is self-preservation. Like, of course. Is she like, oh, she's a little smarter than you? One more question. Do you know if he was really in therapy for the cheating? Or was that just a, was that was not real? Oh, no.

I didn't think so, but I was just, I had to be sure. I have more questions too, but I kind of want to wait until we hear the other story because I'm sure there will be overlap in these questions. Oh, probably. All right, Kelly, take it away. All right. So I was on a girl's trip with one of my best friends. We went to Dallas for a concert.

And while we were down there at a bar, we ran into these guys who worked on the pipeline. So they were traveling for work, but usually stayed in that area for long periods of time. So they had apartments and things like that down there and kind of moved their lives all around the country. but we met these group of guys. One of my friends was talking to one of them, and I was just kind of doing my own thing. The guy my friend was talking to, uh, introduced me to one of his friends. And then you could tell they were all kind of drunk and we had all been drinking all day. But he was really flirty with me.

And then he ended up giving me his number. And we texted a little bit. They left the bar, but we stayed. And then they invited us over to their apartment that was right. down the street. So we walked down there to wait for our Uber to go home and just hung out with them all night and had a good time. It was just kind of flirty, never really like crossing the line or doing anything. But we went back to our hotel and then the next morning, this guy texts me, good morning and it's like, hey, I want to take you to brunch. So I go to brunch with them.

We hang out the whole rest of the weekend. It was our first night. We still had like four days left. So we hung out the rest of the time, like just not really like kissing or anything like that. Just like holding hands and like being very like touchy-feely and flirting. I just got so. Mackenzie knows I'm a romantic and I like almost forgot where this story was going for a second because I was like a good morning, tax crunch. Like this sounds delightful. I would have been right with you, Kelly.

girl that like if you were trying to sleep with me the first night you meet me then it's just a total turn off so he was just like really pulling him a heartstrings i was like this guy is like actually really quiet and just kind of shy and like the good boy and that's what i never go for and i was like i'm getting a little bit older and want to settle down so really he was very appealing to me in that sense so And he also was a little bit older than me, which also was nice. I was like, oh, he's older, more mature. I was 27. And he was 32.

So I feel like he was going to be, yeah, definitely going to be. Big difference. Easy for the 34-year-olds to woo us. I'm right around there myself. This is a good. I'm going to take some notes because so far I would have fallen for this man. Continue. So we hung out the whole rest of the weekend.

and I left. We continued to talk. We did end up kissing by the end of the weekend on the last night. And that was pretty much it. We went our separate ways, but he was like, I really still want to keep talking to you. So we continued to talk for a couple more weeks,

a couple weeks into texting after I went back home. He was like, you should come down and visit again. and Dallas is fun. So I said, heck yeah, I'll definitely take a free place to stay. And he was like, I'll pay for your transportation to get here, like all of that stuff. So I'm like, okay. But I didn't feel comfortable going by myself because I had really only known him for like four days.

So I took my friend back with me. And we had a really great time again and just spent the whole weekend together, hanging out, and go back home. And actually, that time that I was there, he asked me to be his girlfriend at that point. We'd been talking at this point for a month and a half. And I'm like, okay, not really big into the long distance thing, but why not?

He's sweet. He's nice. He flew me down here. So I continued to go down there every other weekend. And then I went down there and stayed for a whole week with him and took my dog down there and just had like he was cooking me dinner it was just very like normal relationship wait can i clarify something really quick you said he has like this group of guys have apartments in dallas but he doesn't he's not based in dallas full time yeah okay so he's

coming yeah he lived in south carolina he was in dallas for work his work paid for his apartment and he was only there for like six months at a time and then he would travel to a different place for another job site. So I was going to visit him in Dallas. He was only there for like six months. And then he started making all these excuses like we were going to go to a concert in Dallas on Valentine's Day. And then like the week before he's like, oh, no, I have to go somewhere else. for work. And so just like a lot of like excuses kept coming up and I got a little suspicious. And I ended up looking up a phone number that I had from him online. And I found his first name, which was Joseph. But the last name that he had given me was different than the name that was on.

the phone number look up. So, yeah, so he, what? Like, you're just finding this on the Google

machine all willy-nilly? On Ben verified. So I paid for it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. But we love Ben verified. So,

been verified is actually kind of legit. So Ben verified is a public record, right? But a lot of people, it's public record all in one place. So although you can probably obtain that somewhere legally, like just all willy-nil-nilly.

Like, you don't have to be a piece. P.I. A licensed P.I. or whatever. But it really does for a very small charge. Like, you don't have to pay very much. And it'll give you the basics that you need to know to really start to dig into someone. And then if those inquisitions start to get a little bit bigger, then maybe invest in a P.I. But if you want to pay a couple dollars for Ben verified, I'm about that life. I'm no stranger to catfish or like anything like that. So I knew that he obviously was who he, or I assumed he was who he said he was because I met him in person. I didn't meet him online. I didn't have any reason not to believe

that. Yeah, everybody had. And I would also like to clarify, that's the difference between dogfish and catfish. That's why we coined the term dogfish because the catfish is like maybe they're not who they say they are. But this is really this person, like in person, this is who he says he is. But the information that he's given is all a lie. So it's totally like kind of backwards. Or maybe what he's doing in the week in between every other week is not what he's doing. Yeah. So I gave that last name a Google or a Facebook search. And sure enough, there he is on his Facebook with a picture.

No. With his picture. With his wife. And holding a sonogram picture. Yeah. Shut up. Yeah. Oh, my God.

So they're pregnant. What did you look back? on that you thought was weird. So looking back at it, he had given me a fake last name. He had told me that his last name was Phillips, and that was never his last name. So I tried to look back and think, like, okay, did I ever see anything with his last name on it? And I remember distinctly meeting one of his friends that he worked with, and we went to dinner. And as Joseph gets up to go to the bathroom, I'm sitting there with his friend.

And his friend says, so you and Joseph Phillips, huh? And so he said the other name, Joseph Phillips. Yeah. So he confirmed the last. So the friend was really in on it. So the friend was like covering up for him the whole time. Yeah. So then now looking back at the timeline of it, I met him.

the end of August. He got married September 8th. And then I went back down there September 20th. Oh my God. Wait, wait, wait, time out, off sides. Too many players on the field. So, okay, I have so, so many, okay, so hold on. He's at the job, right? I'm glad I can, I'm glad I can clearly express my feelings like the boy. Okay, so he's on this job site, right? And then he meets you and he's like, oh, I like this girl. And then like the next weekend he goes home and gets married. And then the next weekend he's back at the job site.

So he was like saying, so he was talking to me the whole entire time. Like he was sending me like inappropriate pictures on his bachelor rep or his bachelor party. Yes. With all of his little co-conspirators who are all probably with cheating too. of his friends are probably in a little... Did he text you on his wedding day? Yes. No, shut up!

This to me is so clear that this guy, like, got off on that power. He needed to feel like he could do anything and get away with anything. So what happened when you found out? Yeah, so I found out. Thanks for reeling it back in, Hannah, because I'm over here in low. No, I want all of it. But I just need to hear what, like, did we confront? Like, because this to me is the worst.

Yeah, so I did confront him. And he said that that picture was his ex-wife, which he had been married before. And I was like, so you're having a baby with your ex-wife? He was like, no. I was like, okay, so then it's your current wife. And he just kept saying, I know I effed up. I know I effed up. And I was just like, okay, so you said that you loved me.

And then he said, I did love you. Like, what? Oh, oh. And I'm like, pardon me. So what did you think was going to happen? He's like, I loved you until you started confronting me about this, you crazy girl. Yeah. You're the problem now.

He just kept saying, I effed up and I'm sorry. Actually, no, I don't even think he ever said. I'm sorry. That, yeah, no. So that was pretty much like the conversation. And then I told him that he needed to send me $1,000 or I was going to make sure that everybody and his family knew what a POS he was. What?

Wait, she said. Okay, she's like, you can't blackmail people. I'm like, honey, you're worth more. So she asked for more. She's kidding. She's totally kidding. Totally kidding. She's joking, you guys.

I had actually had like a whole like Christmas present thing that like I was going to send him. And I had like recently been on a trip, bought him stuff. And then just driving down like back and forth, I was like, I need you. So like reimburse me for all of those that money that I've paid. And yeah. So did, wait, did he pay you? He paid. Yes, he, he, I'm sorry.

I just want to clarify, she did not blackmail him. and he did not participate in blackmail. He reimbursed her for the money that she put out for his bullshit shenanigans. That is what that is. Go ahead. So he reimbursed me for the money. And I then messaged his wife on Facebook. So.

Good. She got that bag back. And then she does. Okay. So I messaged her on Facebook. She actually, unfortunately, I don't know if she ever read it. She never responded. And I didn't really go into D.E.

I just said, hey, you're, I'm really not trying to cause drama, but like, if I was you, then I would want to know. So I just told her that I met him out of town and we have been having a physical slash emotional affair for the last year. If you want receipts, I'll be happy to give them to you. I had everything ready to send her if she wanted it, but she never messaged me back. And I think that, you know if she read it? I don't know because we weren't friends on Facebook, so I couldn't see if she even read it or not. So I don't know if she ever found out or knows at all, but I'm just glad that that's not me. They're so married.

So if she did know, then I don't think she cared. Oh, man. Oh, my gosh. I was so sorry that happened to you. Okay, so we've heard your story now, Kelly. Thank you for sharing. So now Kelly and Caroline both have heard each other's stories. What are the similarities, the differences? What did you find that was connected to your story? Like what came up for you in hearing the other one's story? Yeah. So, so much of what Kelly was saying was resonating with me and bringing up

other. Boy, it's like, they must be a boy school they go to where they learn these tricks. I also, so Caroline, so the social media thing is something I wanted to ask about you, Caroline, too. Like, what is your social media presence? What was his social media presence? Yeah, no social media presence, only LinkedIn. And there was no social media presence. There was none. When we first had started talking, he did tell me he didn't have any social media or anything like that, which at the time, I was like, okay, he's 32. He's a little bit older than me. I feel like social media kind of like was peak when. That's like a hot thing to hear when we're dating now, I feel like when someone's like, oh, I'm not really into Instagram, especially in L.A., I'm like, what?

So you thought he didn't have social media, but then when you got his real name, sure enough, he was on Facebook. He just didn't have a fake Facebook. He didn't have a Finsta for his dogfish persona. Yeah. It's the funny thing because I don't want to be like, everyone has to be on social media and put their whole life out on display so that everyone knows that you're not cheating. But it's just having some kind of, I just think that it's becoming more and more important that we can verify people online. And it does make it harder to get away with this kind of stuff. So I'm not saying that every single person that doesn't use Facebook is cheating. But I don't know.

It's just like, it's a nice system of checks and balances. It's so uncommon in this day and age not to be on social media. So when someone says they're not on social media, that puts up a red flag in our brain like, wait, you're not? Like, that's weird. We'll make it a red flag. It's not an always, you're not always cheating if you're not on social media. But unfortunately, in the day and age, if you're not on social, you might have to, like, show some receipts. I remember when I was dating, when I first became a private investigator, I was dating.

And if, like, we didn't have the social media that we do now. But as soon as they heard that I was a PI, they were like, yeah, got to go. See ya. Like, they were out. And it was like, it was almost like weird. Like, they didn't want to be looked up. they didn't want and and that's fine like people can be private or whatever but also like it's it's it's just it's just not how it is anymore dude like it's just not sorry like you know trust but verify you know what I

mean trust but verify I love that were there any red flags that you saw in the other story that you related to in your story looking back I do I don't remember any like big red flags except one time I did grab his phone out of his hand and I was just like we were just playing around and like joking and I grabbed it to like look at the menu because he wouldn't let me look at the menu on his phone and he grabbed it like really quickly from me. And the only other thing was when we first started, the first phone number he gave me, he told me like a week later that he was getting rid of that phone because work paid for him to have a phone. and so he didn't need to pay for his own phone.

But I didn't really think anything of it at the time because he originally had given me his real, like his personal phone number. So the whole time after that week, we were just communicating on his work phone. Yeah. But wait, was the second phone? Like, did he go get a whole other second phone? No. His work really did give him a phone or like he had a work phone that they paid for.

So he was just communicating with me on his work. phone, but he had a separate phone as well. The telephone thing resounded with me because a very similar thing happened. I think maybe the heat was turning up a little bit further north than where I was, and so a new phone appeared. And so it was couched very similarly that I want to keep this other phone open for you and me and my kids. And the other one's going to be more work and outward facing.

I was like, okay. So Caroline, he, like, he went and got a specific phone, like a specific extra phone. Oh, my gosh. What are they getting out of this? I'm sure you both have thought about this a lot. I have. And I brought it down to dopamine. It's almost like a drug.

And he needed more pressure. He needed more, much higher stakes. and so when because it just wasn't enough. There wasn't enough hit, you know, almost getting caught, big hit. Boy, that felt good. And then you just go for the bigger hit and the bigger hit. That's interesting. You bring that up because the same thing happens with like, and if you're an expert in this,

please let me know if there's like the same thing with like shoplifters. Even people that have, they're like, why would you shoplift? Like you can afford it. And they're like, no, it's the rush. It's the rush of like, oh my gosh, am I going to get caught this time? What do you think, Kelly? Yeah, I think for him, it definitely. was like a narcissistic personality kind of trait for sure. I feel like he was just kind of insecure

and wanted the attention and wanted the validation from somebody else other than his wife. Attention and validation. Yeah. And I mean, honestly, he probably could have been doing this to plenty of other girls. I confident he was. Yeah. Yeah. So. Well, because you were far enough away. He could have been, he could have been meeting other girls all along. Well, I, wow. Can I, I just think it's important to say for people who have been through this and also for their kids. I think a lot of people probably find out about someone doing this to either them as the

partner, them as the spouse, them as the family. It's not about you. It's not that you are not enough. It's that nothing is enough. And it's so much. Because I feel like the initial thought as a wife of someone whose husband is doing this would just be like, you know, you would immediately blame yourself, think what did I do wrong? And it's so. I wasn't enough. It's so unfortunate because yeah, you putting it like there's a drug that they are just feeding off of this. It's not about any of you. And I hope that nobody feels that they're at fault or that they did something that caused this. I'm sure it's a long healing journey. It is a long healing journey. And from my personal experience, and, you know, I'm on the back nine of life.

But it's, I don't trust myself to make good decisions in that department. I have not dated since. And this has been years. And that's okay. It's okay. And it's, for me, the message is be cautious with your heart. Be cautious with yourself. because it is a shattering that I obviously cannot articulate.

Have you tried dating but couldn't bring yourself to trust anybody or have you just not wanted to go there at all? I think I've gone on. I've tried going out to dinner. I end up getting up in the middle paying for the whole entire bill and leaving. Really? Because you're just not ready to get hurt again. It's very triggering. It's painful. It's so painful. I wish I could say I'm hurt. It's not. I'm hurt. It's just I can't. dating is one thing. It's getting out of it or finding out something that I'm getting like the thinking about it now. And again, I'm not emotional about it. And I really wasn't emotional about it at the time. It was just a, if you look at it as a business decision, that was a poor business decision. And I decided to exit that business. Well, it's traumatizing a little bit. Yeah. 100%. There's always that anticipation of it. Oh, when's the other shoe going to drop? When's it going to happen? And then you're just like, you're like, oh, because it happened before. And can. And can, Telly, you're, you said you're scared to date now, right? Is that way? I actually, since then, got married and divorced.

No. I'm worried and divorced. Oh, no. What happened? We both, Caroline and I both jumped up and then went pout. That's some more juicy, juicy story if you want to hear. To your call. Yeah.

Molly, are we doing this now or do we need to do a part too? I know. I hope it wasn't another dogfish situation. So not exactly. We were together for three years. We were engaged for, we got engaged pretty quickly after we met. We just really clicked.

And then we ended up being engaged for over a year before we got married. When we got married, we were married for three months, I think. And then I found out that he was cheating on me with a girl that he worked. with. Yeah. And I found out, like, I found a picture on his computer of her in her underwear in the backseat of my car.

That's how I found out. That bitch wanted a backseat in my car? Oh, girl. You're in my Porsche? Yeah. Oh, no. I know. I know.

I know. Bad luck. But I found out I confronted him about it. he did try to, of course, say, nope, that was some girl that my friend was hooking up with, whatever. And I was like, no, that's not the, that's not how it works. So then, yeah, so then I, he finally admitted it. And he then came home and was like, I just don't want to be married anymore.

Like, excuse me. So like three months in, he's like, I don't want to be married anymore. And then he, I was like, okay, well, I was. I, because he got caught. Exactly. So I moved out. And honestly, I will tell you, though, it's been the best thing that's ever happened to me, ever. Ever. We are all about learning from these because it's everybody can listen to these stories.

And one just like feel less alone because that's one thing we've learned from having this podcast already is that what, no matter what the details of the story are, the camaraderie from people who have been fucked over. Israel. Yeah, talk about that. What are you doing now? What have you learned? What would you give advice to our listeners to? I will say that these people do not pick on wimps. I'm a strong-willed go-getter type A personality. I promise you they're not going for that little person that doesn't make a peep. They want to challenge. It's no fun to destroy. So yeah, absolutely, exactly. McKenzie. It is. And when you realize that it's like, wow, my superpower of confidence, my superpower of, you know, I have self-worth, plenty of it. And after everything settled out, I really just put my head down and went to work. I just, I didn't process it after having had that conversation, that painful conversation with

his wife and actually trying to come to terms and not be horrified with myself for what had happened. And so pulling that backward, you know, getting that all wrapped up and taking care of was what I worked on the most, is not having those feelings of guilt and shame that I did not earn. Because I'll take any shame. If I earn it, I will own it. But I didn't earn this. I didn't do that. Completely agree. I think that that was my biggest struggle when I did find out is how the heck did I not pick up on that or pick up on anything.

I wasn't upset at all about him. Like, I was out of that situation. I was glad I wasn't the wife. I was glad that I could block him and move on with my life. And I didn't have to stay with someone who had cheated on me with another girl. So me beating myself up about the, how could this happen to me? But I told myself, I'm just going to get a little sappy on you. But like I said, that was the best thing that has ever happened to me.

I've never loved myself more than I love myself now. And I've, hell yeah. But I've like made changes in my life like trying to be healthier, emotionally, physically, all of those things and just like really feeling my feelings and letting myself work through those. And honestly, like, it was a really shitty situation. I'm really sad that all of that, that all of my dating history is like that. But moving forward, I just know that I will never let myself be in that situation again. And I will always know my work and not put up with it.

I resonated when you just said that. I went through a pretty bad breakup like nine-ish months ago. And now looking at myself, I'm so grateful because it did push me to so much positive stuff for me. Like I started with me just like going to the, I don't know, I just was working out more because I was like, what else am I going to do? And also like when you go to hot Pilates, like no one can tell you're crying because everyone's sweating. You know, like I just was like, I'll just work out all the time. But then it just became, yeah, it's been a beautiful, anyone going through something bad. I know it feels like this is the end of the world, but it is an opportunity to like find so much love and pride in yourself.

Oh, I'm going to cry. But there's like you said, like there's a reason in a season when people are in your life and like when, when they're not there. Like, who else you're going to talk to? Like, you work on yourself. Like, start pouring into you instead of trying to find someone else to pour into. And actually, like, the whole entire situation kind of led me to, like, a passion because I have worked with, like, the special investigations unit at my job to, yeah.

And do you think this, did this lead you to that? Like, you were like, listen, I want to look into the people. A hundred percent. 100%. That's amazing. See it? Things happen for a reason, you guys. Honestly, anyone else who's listening that has that skill from whatever way that you got it,

I think we all get there in our own way. Man, that's so weirdly beautiful. I love it. And I love that it's turned into a passion. Like, it's an actual passion that you get to do every day. That's really cool. That's the best part. I'm going to call you.

Amazing. If McKenzie's asleep, I'm calling you. Thank you guys so much for being here. Oh, my gosh. It's been so good. talk to you guys. Thank you for sharing your story. I'm just, I'm kind of just blown away. Like, and the similarities, the parallels are really like just crazy to me. And I, there's, like you guys can't be the only ones. Like, if you're just two that have heard of the dating

detectives, there's got to be millions out there who have not that are still just floating around all really, nilly, just not like they're just existing. It blows my mind. But thank you guys so much. It's so nice to meet you. Just anything we didn't ask you or final thoughts about each other's situations or yours? What would you share with each other about your situations? Oh my gosh. Kelly just knocked it out of the park. I mean, I'm over here like a fish flopping on the beach. Stop that. But it's true, but she really was a hot fish. I'll have you know. She's a gorgeous fish. Girl. But no, I just, I have to say congratulations for not backing down and taking yourself seriously. It's super

encouraging to hear that. And I don't know. I'm super impressed. I just it's a horrific situation to find yourself in and really amazing. And I think Hannah said it best when she said trust

the verified. That is the golden rule. I said that you guys. It was me. Oh, sorry. It was McKenzie. Let's know that credit. That was a good one. Okay, so how are you feeling after that roller coaster? I mean, I did go on a roller coaster because there were moments where I was really excited by how they've grown from that. But I think it is easy to hear these stories and feel empowered, but also, like, it's such a bummer that this happens.

Yeah, it's a lot. But one thing that really stuck with me was when Caroline was talking about how this happens to very strong people. like strong people can be the victims also. They can be who these people go after. But being a strong person is also what helps you move forward and learn from it better. And then what Kelly said about working on yourself after something like that and just learning from it. And I think those are two really great points.

Our producer, Molly, just said the most perfect thing that having this information and hearing these stories shouldn't make you more scared to date, but less scared to date because of how you can take that lesson, take that. lesson, take those stories, take the community of other people who have been through maybe what you've been through. And like, I don't know. You just now are more aware. Yeah. Like you don't learn from the experiences of others and really just try to just keep that in the back of your mind when you're dating of the things that can go wrong. And I hate to say, I hate to say like don't trust anybody, but also trust but verify, just keep it close to your vest and just really, you know, kind of maybe

do a little bit of research if you have to. Maybe like a lot of research. Maybe a lot. It's fine. We need to get. Okay. I'm going to email. We need it been verified.

And be like, do you guys want to sponsor us? Because we will hype you like for real. I think it's, I think it's great to do. Also, so trust but verify. We're all obsessed with it. We want it on merch. We have more merch ideas. If you all have anything that you think we should put on merch, you should tell us.

We want like femtuition merch. We want dogfish. We want dating. Just stay, communicate with us. Let us know what you're wanting for merch because we want, we want to give back to you from the dating detectives. We also want hats. All right. We're just like little material girls.

We just want all of it. Well, it's fun, right? Anyways, if you have a story yourself that you want to share with us, email us at investigate at datingdetectivepod.com. And also be sure to stay in touch with us on Instagram. Dating detectives podcast. That's the Instagram. I just had to double check dating detectives podcast. Yeah, don't forget to share with a friend. And give us our review on wherever you listen to your podcast.

We would really appreciate it. We would love to grow dating detectives and really reach more women and just really encourage the growth in this community. In the dating community and just really anyone. This was a good one. I really love both of them a lot. If anybody wants to date them. and not screw them over. They're hot.

They deserve it. But you have to go through me first also. Oh, yeah. Of course. All right. Anything else, McKenzie? No, let's sign it off. Okay, well, see you next week.

Goodbye, my dating detective. Goodbye, my armchair, slew.