The Dating Detectives - Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde: Part 2

Episode Date: August 21, 2023

Mackenzie and Hanna hear Rachel's side of the story! Instagram & Tik Tok - @DatingDetectivesPodcast Facebook - The Dating Detectives Podcast Mackenzie's Socials - @Freedom_Barbie Hanna's Socials - @HannaAndergram   ***The following Program contains names, places and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following Program is provided for entertainment purposes only and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 for support.*** See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following program contains names, places, and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only, and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7-233 for support. Hello, Gapna. Hello, Poppet.

I wasn't ready. I wasn't ready. We were talking about when I was in L.A. We were talking about we're going to go into the studio and like just speaking completely English accents. And then our producer would be like, what the hell is going on? And like just not explain anything. I'm kind of disappointed we didn't do it. Well, maybe we'll pick another accent in some random point.

Yeah, don't ask me to do Australian. I sound like an Irish pirate. Like, you can ask my husband, my accents are bad. Okay, now I'm absolutely making you do Australian. That British wasn't bad. I know. It's pretty decent, but it's weird sometimes. So, okay, anyway, I'm dying to get into it. Part two from last week. Are you ready for it? Like, we, oh my gosh, I can't even. If you haven't listened to Part one, go listen to it before you listen to this. We'll give you a little, like, a quick

recap, but you should go listen. Honestly, my mom, I know she's biased, but she called me after. She was like, this was my favorite one so far. She was like, this was crazy. I was like, it was crazy for us, too. So just to recap from last week, so we met Sandy, who was telling her about her endeavors with this fellow, right? Well, then Hannah and I were surprised with the appearance of Rachel, who is another lady that was in the story. And we didn't know that she was like there. And then she popped into the podcast because our producer thinks it's fun to do things like that. And so Molly's like getting a kick out of it. And me and Hannah are like, what?

Wait, Rachel's here? So we left off with Rachel showing up. And just so you guys know, I know that sometimes it can get really confusing with all the voices. But Sandy is going to still, she's going to stay on with us. And so if you hear a lot of voices at one time, we'll try to make it as easy as possible. So just try to keep up. She just jumps in with some more information, which is so fun to have both sides of the story. Because not to spoil, but the episode is titled Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

So you might be able to guess this man was fooling some folks as he went. Shall we chat with Rachel and get into the rest of the story? Let's do it. Good afternoon, ladies. I'm Rachel. Wait, hi. Wait, guys, Molly did not tell us. Wait, I'm so, oh, my God.

Hi. I have a question. So are y'all okay now? Like, are you okay to be in the same, like, the, well, not the same room. but like the same. Oh yeah. She came to my birthday party like a month after I met her. I had 12 of my closest girlfriends and sisters. She came for the weekend. Oh my God. Crazy great. He has good taste in women. That's all we can say that we agree on. That is the one thing that these assholes have in common. A lot of them have the best women. So true. Thanks for having me. My story doesn't run in a straight

trajectory like Sandy's where it was love and roses and unicorns and stuff. Mine was pretty volatile from the start. I was just out of a 30-year marriage. And so I was dating for the first time. I was 55 and I'm like, God, who's going to want to date an old broad, you know? So I went on match. And like the next morning I had like a ton of hits and then I went on Zeus. And it was like, wow, because I realized what I was really seeking at that moment was like validation. admiration, because, you know, when you're married so long, kind of that stuff kind of goes away. So I guess I was starving for attention, male attention. So I was having the time in my life. I mean, I was dating like a crazy woman. I don't even know how I did it. And so I met Jeff in

2018 in July. And I had made it clear to him and others, you know, that I wasn't really looking for a relationship. I just got out of a 30-year marriage, you know, and he didn't like it, but I didn't really even care because I thought I was being really clear and really honest. So we start dating for a couple months. Wait, did he do the love bomb thing like Sandy? It was totally love bombing. Flowers, I mean, he was always coming by my house unannounced and leaving flowers and notes and on my porch, right? And then he started just showing up in my backyard because I had like a fire pit. And I would just be out there having a drink talking to girlfriends, you know, and he would just like creep up on me from like out of nowhere.

That's why Stalker Jeff, right? Because it was so creepy. And I told him, please, you can't do that. And then he actually took a picture. So he was in my backyard while I was asleep because my bedroom, you know, had a slide glass door. And he took a picture of me and my cat asleep on the bed and sent it to me. Oh, my God. Ew. And then actually, even in August of 2018, I was dating this other guy, and he was at my house. And I found out later, Jeff was appearing in my living room window watching me like make out with another guy. He didn't let himself be known. He was just lurking. And the reason I know that is he called me later that night, Stalker Jeff. And he's like, I watched. I'm like, you watched me. Oh, my. That's.

So, violating. I would, I would be so, 100% creeped out. I know. And then the next morning, I will never forget this.

I was never so terrified, honestly, in my life. He was yelling for like three hours the night that he called me when he told me he was looking. And I mean, it's like foaming

at the mouth mad. And I finally hung up because I couldn't take it anymore. And in the morning when I was going to work, I remember thinking and calling my best friend and saying, if I,

If I die or if something happens to me, Jeff did it. Jeff is responsible. Wait, can I get a quick, just clarify the timeline. So what you've been dating for how long when this happens? A month. A month. And this is when? I started in July and then in August he was peering through my living room window.

Did it scare you? Did you feel scared? I was really scared. I have to say, I was truly really scared. But then you'd think that would be it, right? oh no we get back together three days later like I was a nitty okay I was a total no don't say no because don't say that don't say that because it's everybody knows what it's like to really feel something for someone and then be like no that crazy thing didn't really just like it's no big deal

the charisma that these types of people have is alluring it sounds like even yeah you talking about the way he communicated with your family and everything he just knew how to charm and get what wanted. So I mean, I am curious if there's anything that you could think, like, maybe it was just like, the sex was great. Like, was there anything that you were just able to overlook it? I did have fun with, because I was in a crazy stage. It's hard to, it's almost embarrassing. That's why it's hard to explain why I would stay for four years. Even my friends are like, that nobody ever met Jeff, ever. He would not meet any of my friends. I couldn't meet any of his family. I didn't have access to Facebook. He wouldn't let me all. He wouldn't let me all. He would

let me on there, you know. I mean, there were so many red flags. What do you mean, let you? Right. I mean, he didn't, no, sorry, he didn't let me be his friend on Facebook. Oh, yeah. He was serious? Yeah. But I guess at this point, you're saying I'm not looking for a serious relationship. Right. So in the beginning when I was dating Jeff, I didn't want a relationship. And he knew that, but he didn't like that, but it was okay. Then he gave me an ultimatum a few months in, saying, you know, you have to just see me exclusively get off all their dating sites or I can't pursue you. And so I said, okay. You know what? I'm going to give this a shot. So I dropped off all the dating sites and stuff. So then, you know, he's always, you know, saying about the future and I could finally meet his family once. So that never happened.

Like he was always gone. Like he was always every weekend, pretty much. He was come to find out with Sandy. And I mean, he was always just thinking I was just thinking I was. cheating on him when I wasn't. And then we'd break up. And then two days later, it was always two days. He'd call me back or text me back and or pop by or and we'd then be back again, sometimes exclusive, sometimes not toward the end. On again off again, kind of playing that.

It was all willy nilly. It was all willy-nilly. Some months would go by and it was like wonderful, you know. But those were very few and far. between. It was normally, see each other twice, fight, and then see each other again. I mean, it was really unhealthy. It was this really ridiculous relationship. But I think I was trying to convince him that I was a good person. Like, I wasn't cheating and doing all these horrible things. So I kept thinking, well, no, I'm not that girl. So I kept trying to prove that I was like,

worthy. We did go to some swinger parties, you know, and I'd never done that before. And it was, it was fun. The people are nice. I mean, I was ready for anything at that time. We are very open-minded here at the dating detectives. We love, go, go off. Yeah, it was totally something I'd never even thought about. I do love that he went to Sandy and was like, Rachel wanted to do these swingers parties. She was so, like, I was so not into it. And meanwhile, he's the one. He's the one. He's the one who is. He'd been in it for years already. So, Sandy, you never saw a side of him that was like kinky or a little bit more, like, adventurous with sex? No.

Never, never, never. Sandy and I had such opposite relationships with this guy. Like, he was a kinky, really fun in bed. He was, like, only missionary style with her. It was like Madonna whore. I like to think of it. I she was the you know sweet sweet majonna image you know

and I was the one he could you know go crazy with or whatever so we just we couldn't have had different experiences with the same guy Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Kink totally I never saw really a very sweet side we had this crazy relationship of just him accusing me of stuff me just never being good enough he just always found ways to belittle me

and stuff. And so I kept putting up with it. Then I'd break up with him. And then always through like text or long, long, laborious texts. And then we'd get back together every time. And then I keep going, this is so dysfunctional. Why do I keep doing this? Because he was making you want to prove yourself.

I did want to prove myself. He made you feel like you needed to and that he could get away with that treatment because he was telling you that you deserved it because you weren't good enough. Bingo. Exactly. It's such a real thing. Thank you for succinctly saying that because that's exactly what it was. So then I finally just had had enough almost a year later and wrote the letter. I said, we were so dysfunctional and unhealthy together. I'm glad you are hesitant to go forward.

I think we both sense danger and we just keep trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I don't like who I am when I'm with you. Wish we met at a different time in my, I said, recovery, meaning because I was crazy dating. But we can't change that. I know in my core that I will not ever be the woman you are proud of, excited to have friends and family meet, et cetera. I have never been in a position where my guy isn't as proud as a peacock to introduce me. However, I understand I have not acted as stellar as I should have. I own that totally.

Sometimes you just can't go back in time. Timing is everything and timing for us sucks. I so wish it could be different, but it absolutely cannot be. We both deserve more than what we have become together. I will always be sad that you never wanted to meet my family and friends and vice versa. I do love you and will miss you horribly. I can't even say maybe we can meet up in three years and start again. There's so much damage and lack of trust that would follow us forever.

I believe it's time to release each other so that we can pursue our well-deserved happiness. I'm so sorry that that doesn't include us. Thank you, Jeff, for everything. I wish for you only good things. There is no coming back from this. Love Rachel. You're a really beautiful writer. Can I just say?

Thank you. Well, it's funny because you would think that's not a letter from somebody who just dated somebody twice. Yeah. No, not at all. But he could totally spin that and be like, see, she's crazy. We only dated twice and she sent me this whole letter. Like, I could see how you believe that story. You could twist that around.

But then you'd think that would be it, right? Oh, no, we get back together three days later. And then he told me he was moving to the Pacific Northwest because his kids were in that area. and so he was looking for homes up there. But he told me he'd been looking at homes only for like two months. But after talking to Sandy, found out they were looking at homes like a year before that, you know, just a big fat liar. And what's funny too is when he was moving to be of Sandy,

I helped him pack from the house he was living in before he moved, right? But he wouldn't let me mark any boxes, like with dishes or whatever. he was a freak about me not because I didn't realize but then Sandy would say hey this is chick's writing like who helped you know handwriting is this and so when he moved he lived with me for like five days before he made the final move and of course Sandy didn't know this at all you know he was like oh I love you know like then when he drove away it's like well you know we're going to see each other in like a month or whatever. So then when he moved and he came to visit one weekend and he was here for like a day and he had to always fly in and out of this certain airport where his dad's hometown is, which I thought

odd. I mean, if you're coming to my hometown, I have an airport right here. Why do you have to go through your dad? Anyway. Yeah. So he came and go see his dad or was he using that as a cover? Well, he went to see his dad and then flew to see me and then flew. back through his dad's hometown so that Sandy could pick him up at the airport up there and not see that he flew in from anywhere but the hometown. Oh, I wonder if his head hurt from, like, that's a lot of planning. Like, that's a lot of logistics. It is. And he always had diarrhea. Always. He always had stomach issues. And then after I met Sandy, we're like, no wonder he was always had diarrhea. He's taking your phone to the bathroom.

And trying, I mean, keeping all this straight is like impossible. No wonder he was a mess. No, that's, oh my God. Or I wouldn't mention it. Boys poop so much faster when they don't have their phone in the bathroom. So true. So when he came to visit, he was just here for a day, like 24 hours. And again, I knew nothing about Sandy.

She knew nothing about me. And then he would call all the time when he was out on long walks. at 10 o'clock at night because he never had cell service. And I just assumed the house where he bought, maybe it's down a country road. I don't know. So I would argue like, get some boosters for the Wi-Fi. There are things you can do, you know, and he gave me a long song and dance about that. Love being one with nature and disconnect.

Yeah, he never had self-service at his father's house. But see, this all makes sense because he was either meeting Sandy wherever he was going, so he couldn't be on the phone. So he would just stand on and have cell service. I was going to ask how often you communicated if you were texting a lot, talking a lot, like all the time, especially the first year that he had moved. One surprising night, I guess he had a few bars. So he called me from the barn and we had phone sex.

Sandy was in the house. I did not know this, but it's like, despicable. I mean, he was still saying there's like a future for us, you know. and then I get a text from him that said, going forward, please don't contact me again. I'm in a relationship and I'm very happy. So I'm like, huh, all right. So I didn't contact him. Then he's incessantly emailing and, you know, I need to talk to you.

So finally he got a hold of me. And he goes, okay, I just have something to tell you. Like, hey, call me. I need to talk to you. I've had a girlfriend for the last four years. years and we moved in together in our new home. And I just want to know, will you know, will you be discreet? Because I gave her your number. Will you be discreet in what you tell her? Because I told her we only dated twice. And I'm like, yeah. And then we are dead.

Wait, you said, yeah, like you agreed? No, I was in such shock, you guys. I mean, I don't even know. I don't think I said yes or no. I think I was just like blown. away. So then the night after he asked me to be discreet, I woke up at like four in the morning. I could not see if I was so angry. I was so angry. So I wrote this and I sent it to him. It said, can I read, can I say a bad word? By all means. She got receipts, y'all. She's got a stack of receipt. She's going through her receipt. Go ahead, Rachel. Okay. I said, you fuck her. Do not ever, ever, ever call me or contact me again. You can only hope your girlfriend doesn't call me or email me as I will not be able to hold my tongue. Why would I want another woman to go through the

shit show with you? Although after four years, sounds like she's had enough because I knew she had left. I said, you are diabolical, a narcissist to the extreme, a shitty man for person. How do you live with yourself cloaked in Christianity and sanctimoniousness? And the nerve of you calling me to ask if I would cover you for four years. Oh my God, it doesn't get sicker than that. You're a sick fuck. Drop the mic. Oh my God. Can we put that on a T-shirt? I want the whole hat on a T-shirt. Oh, my God. But good for you for like, obviously you had feelings for this guy. And like, it's hard. Like, when you have feelings for someone, when you care about them, it's hard to like call them out and be someone who stands up against it. And so that must have, that must have taken a lot from you knowing it was probably breaking your heart to say that, but you knew it was the right thing to do. Oh, no. I was done by then because I hadn't met Sandy yet. But. I knew he had said she has my number and stuff.

So I was waiting for her to call. And then we met that first night. And I even asked her before I told her all the dirty details, you know, lots of people want to give it a second try once they leave, you know, almost marriage, right? So I just thought maybe if she's going to go back, I don't want to tell her everything because that will like be bad. But she's so strong. Sandy is the strongest woman I've ever made. that she never responded to him after all of these times of him.

She just went dark and did her attorney thing and got moved. And I mean, he didn't know what to do. Rachel, did you, whenever you were telling Sandy all the things and when you guys were sharing notes and stuff, was there ever a point where you were like, oh, I don't want to tell you this because I know, like, was there anything you withheld knowing that it would hurt her? No, I always told her everything. And I've told her that you're not going to like that. I even sent her dickpicks of him.

Wow. Well, because we need to visualize. Like, we need to see visual proof. I think that's a lot of times what, like when I get hired, it's because they know what's happening. But we need visual proof. So that probably, like, even though it's hurtful, it's also helpful to have that visual proof. You can't deny it once you've seen it, kind of, you know? Right.

And I did ask her each time, like, because I had to talk about swinging. Because I had to, he was trying to say, I started. And I just wanted to know, I mean, I went. But anyway, but yeah, I mean, I know Sandy had to be hard to hear a lot of stuff I told you. But I knew I have once you're in, you got to go all. I mean, why only tell her half, you know, give her half the info? Absolutely. Sandy, was it, how difficult was it for you?

I mean, obviously it was hard, but what was it like for you? Were you already done at that point or like where were you at that in that moment? Oh, my God. It was those six hours. that we met together. It was heartbreaking. I mean, it was unbelievable. And, you know, because we, Rachel played me a voicemail

of when we were driving to the Pacific Northwest. He was in a U-Haul. I was in a car behind him. He's leaving her a voicemail saying, oh, the brakes on my truck aren't doing well. Okay, sweetie, you know, big kiss. I'll call you later. and we're going to our new home.

Oh my God. The nerve. And then also when we started looking through her pictures, she would show me pictures of like he and my brother and nephews golfing in Maui. Or he and my brother and sister a lot at a football game. And I was like, wait, he sent you these pictures, but I wasn't in him. So it was really the truth. He was really golfing in Maui, but he would send with his friends.

Wow. And then I would show Rachel my picture of us golfing. So it was, I mean, it was, it was heartbreaking. I mean, because we had, I thought, truly like a hallmark life. And then we did find out later that Jeff used to always. watch Hallmark movies. And the same with when he was with Rachel. He'd watch Homemark movies. And I'm like, what? I had never seen a Hallmark movie until we started dating. I'm like, what guy does that? Then we sort of figured out that he would do it so he would know

how to love bomb, what to say. He was learning. He was using it as a Discovery Channel Learning Opportunity. Oh my God. And because Narcissus is typically don't know how to show empathy or when is it proper to cry. Like, we all just know that stuff. So it's like they mirror whatever's happening like on a movie or they mirror your reactions so that they get it right because they don't have those real feelings. And when he would cry, he would be like this with the shoulders. No tears.

He would just like bounce up and down with the shoulders. She's doing this animated. Like, you know how with the cartoon when someone cries their shoulders to go up and down real fast? Like they're doing a little jazz number. And there's no tears. His shoulders are just to bouncing. He's like turning around with eye drops coming back. Like, Oh my goodness. But that Hallmark thing is wild to me and makes sense. Insane, dude. Come on. Because after I had moved out, the TV cable company was in my name. So I was trying to get my name off. You know, so I could go into my account. So it would show all. all the recordings, you know, his list of recording. So it was like baseball games or football

game and probably at least 20 Hallmark movies recorded in the middle of summer. It was just weird. That is weird. Are you serious? Okay. If you love Hallmark movies, we're not saying you're a narcissist because I love a good Hallmark movie time and place. But not to, I don't want a Hallmark movie life. They're, they're like little snow globes with big dialogue. He used it as a guide. He used the Hallmark movies as a guide to deceive women. That's insane to me. Right. And I mean, we found out he even lied about the dog. Like my dog, he said was the neighbor's dog. What? What did he say, what did he lie about the dog? She has two dogs. And when I went to her house the first time, I recognized both dogs because Jeff had sent, you know, pictures of them, but he would always call them his neighbor's names dogs. Oh, that's Tom's dog. Tom's dog. So when I went to Sandy's house, there are those two dogs. I'm like, wait, that's Tom's dog. I'm like, no, I've had her for 14 years.

That's a beautiful lady. Oh, my God. He lied about everything. What was the point? after you guys how long after you guys connected how long did it take you to kind of get over that you know what I mean like there's like okay I'm kind of past that it doesn't hurt so much anymore and then there's like okay I can move on now like how what did that look like Sandy go first so it's been a year so it was a year in June that I moved out of course I had to go you know months with Jeff because we sold the house and to deal with that and getting a ready to sell. And he even told our real estate agent, he said, oh, he goes, I never thought Sandy would move out. I thought we would live off her husband's pension for the rest of our lives. What the? What? What? Jeff, we do not like you, stalker Jeff. Yeah, because Jeff wasn't working. He got laid off during COVID. Yeah. So, yeah, he said that.

was like, oh my gosh. So you were his meal ticket and then he had his fun time. The time that we met. So I met Rachel down at her house. So we discovered that about six months prior to moving, he said, Sandy, what's in your pot of money? He would always call it my pot of money. Well, he asked Rachel what was in her portfolio. So he was trying to judge which one of us had more money. which chick had more money. Oh. I never told him. I never told him what was in mind because we weren't at that stage, you know?

What? Yeah. He was trying to figure out which chick had more assets or money. He wanted a sugar mama. Yeah. He wanted to. He had to go back to work, unfortunately, because Sandy was no longer there. Exactly.

So it's now been a little over a year. Rachel, I are great friends, but it seemed like, like every time we would talk, we would discover something new, a new lie, a new story. Doing this podcast, we had talked about it. I think this is going to be really good for us to have this episode be aired. So other people, other women, be like, hey, maybe this is a red flag. You know, the new guy on dating won't plug his phone into the car. or he won't let me meet his kids or, you know, anything like that.

Or he won't post the photos on Facebook. Right. He won't be my friend on Facebook. There's a list. We can make a real good list. Wait, I want to hear Rachel how you're doing. And then I need to hear more about your friendship. I think I had had a year when they had moved to kind of, not, I mean, get over real.

I realize in my little head that, yes, Yes, he would text and email and we'd talk on the phone. But I had already sort of started to drift away, like mentally. So I don't mean, and again, I never had that perfect relationship. So I think for Sandy, this was devastating. I mean, this all came out of the blue for her. I had four years of volatility. So it was nothing new.

This was all brand new to her. And she had like given up her. I mean, you're going to be with this guy forever. I mean, so my, my journey. journey started four years ago just during all the rocky, horrible relationship part. And then obviously the end when I found out about Sandy and everything. But I think I had an easier time of it because I'd been letting go, like we didn't have that picture perfect life. Hallmark movie. So you both becoming friends. I want to hear from the day that you met and had that six-hour

conversation. What happened from there? Well, I wasn't sure like what she drank and I knew this was probably going to be a drinking evening. So I bought like six different kinds of alcohol and stuff because I didn't know what she drank. I don't know her, you know. You were prepared. You're such a girl, like you're a girl's girl. We sat outside and we just went straight to it. I mean, we had nothing in common yet except for that. So we just started comparing our task. And and apologizing to each other because we didn't know about each other and looking at pictures and just being stunned all the time. And then we met many, many more times after that.

And we talked on the phone for hours all the time. So, I mean, I really got to know her as a person then, too, not just this episode, you know. And I love her. She's totally awesome. And he's an idiot for leaving her, really. I mean, that was the stupidest thing. Idiot. So where are we now?

Where are you guys now? How are you doing? Sandy, I see your, Sandy is like, I'm not really sure. Sandy, how are you now? Where are you with like dating? What are your thoughts now? And so I haven't dated. I mean, I think now, you know, if I met somebody, the trust level, it's going to be tough. So, but I, I don't know. We talked about this a lot at one point where it's like there's two sides of having experience. like this where it does make your trust obviously harder to earn, but in another way, you're also equipped with this knowledge now, where you maybe know yourself a little better, know these things more. And also when you find the partner that's willing to kind of work through those

things with you, it almost like becomes an even more beautiful relationship. I'm always trying to find the good and this bad situations because so many people do come out with, I don't know, a bestie or a support system. I'm not dating. I'm not on any websites anymore, you know, or anything. I'm just kind of, I'm just having a ball, just being with my dog and, you know, visiting friends and traveling and stuff. My trust level is still there, which is crazy.

I'm a slow learner, apparently. I mean, when I think about it, it pisses me off a lot, you know, that I was so duped. And I was sharing with Sandy, like, I'm almost embarrassed to go on this podcast because people are going, what woman in a right, any self-respecting woman would put up with this kind of thing? And I have no explanation other than I was out of my head for a year and a, or for the first two years. But that's how I think that that, I'm glad that you brought that up, Rachel, because a lot of women do feel that way. How could I be so stupid? And we're here to like create a space where like, you are not stupid. This happens to everyone of every intelligence level. It has nothing to do with you being stupid.

It is not your fault. This is someone that that took advantage of you, lied to you. That is his fault. That is not your fault. It doesn't make you any less of an amazing woman. And I think that that's so important to know. And I'm so incredibly proud of you for coming on and telling your story, even though you feel it was a little embarrassing. Because I think it can empower so many other women to know that it's not their fault. When someone's a complete freaking dogfish, like, dude would live in two lives. As you move forward in dating or if you want to say something to anyone else who's been through what you've been through, maybe somebody who's having to meet a woman that, you know, was in a scenario with someone they were dating. I'm curious if you have any like words of wisdom or thoughts to share with our listeners. Well, listen to your red, when all the red flags were going off from the very beginning and I kept just pushing them away. I didn't even know what a narcissist was until I went on that. Kora, I plugged in a question symptoms of or whatever. And it took me right to the narcissism page.

And it was so helpful because it's all people just like me who are figuring this out. It's fascinating that Kora is really, it was a lifesaver because I. You found a community and validate everything you were not sure about. Yeah, it was really. Yeah, absolutely, a validation. And that's how Sandy found me too was on it. When she Googled my name, it popped up. up to my Quora account, which I've since changed. I didn't know that was public knowledge,

you know, because there were some pretty raunchy stuff in there. Yeah. Sorry, you're doing, you're doing an important work for somebody who probably had the same raunchy question. Right. And I feel that Rachel has saved me. Wow. That's a very strong statement. And you know what's really sweet? Sandy's sister and her niece, the one that did the deep dive, I got to meet them. And of course, I was a little nervous because they know the whole backstory of the swinging and they know all the details, right? And I'm like, they're going to judge me. They were so lovely. And her sister wrote me a long card, you know, saying thank you for, you know, being truthful. I mean, instead of being mad at me or anything, they, they just opened up with loving arms. It was, and my friends and family as well to Sandy.

It was lovely. Because, you know, you do kind of feel like a, you know, what are they going to think of this crazy woman, but Well, of course you think that. But it's so good that now you guys have each other as a support system. So it's like you're not alone. And it's kind of cool that you guys have a, like you have a friendship now, right? And you guys are connecting and, you know, staying close. That's so important to really build those female bonds.

And now you kind of know, like trust your femme tuition. Totally. Definitely. And Sandy, do you have any like of the, I don't know, not necessarily advice. Just thoughts for other listeners or people going through the same kind of thing. I would say if you're starting to date somebody, really watch out for that love bombing right away within the first couple weeks. If they're like, oh, my God, we're meant to be together. You're perfect.

And I'd say just really take your time when you meet somebody and get to know them before jumping in too hard. I feel like we've both been through like a betrayal trauma. And I mean, I think it's a real thing. But things are getting better. Feel stronger. Oh, yeah. We'll never, ever happen again. Well, we're learning a lot about betrayal trauma on this podcast.

But we got to meet and we have, you know, again, we'll be friends for life. So, I mean, something good came out. You guys have to keep us update. on your dating and what your experience is going forward. And I just hope that this isn't something that scorns you so much and, you know, hurts your heart so much that you can't move forward in a happy relationship and really deserve to. Thank you.

I appreciate that. Thanks for having us. Thank you for being here. We'll talk to you guys later. Bye. Okay. Bye, bye, ladies. I loved that.

I mean, I loved their friendship. That was insane. We always say this, but where do people have the time? Like, how does someone live completely to different personalities? It wasn't even just two different lives. It was two completely different personalities. Like, he treated them both completely different from one another. I'm so blown away.

Like, I can't even pinpoint what was worse. Like, it was like he was this loving, kind, compassionate man, right? with Sandy, but then with Rachel, he was totally unhinged, like out of control, like, psycho. I don't know. I know. I love Rachel. I'm so grateful that Rachel came on. And Rachel's like attitude and point of view is so refreshing and them together.

I mean, that's the main takeaway for me is just the way that they went into the aftermath of this, where they like fully led with love. Like there's, there was so much acceptance for the two of them. Yeah. And each lady had a little bit of a different look. They had a little bit of a different demeanor. Like you could tell one was more outgoing and one was a little bit more quiet. These ladies were really opposite in so many ways.

But just the fact that despite their differences, they could come together. And instead of, you know, going at one another, they really came together to connect and help one another get through the situation that they were both just a part of. Yeah, I think one similarity, they might have outward differences, but their value of kindness and respect toward one another and also just, you know, they even had a lot of kindness and respect toward him throughout the relationship. Like he obviously picks, this comes up every time. The women that this happens to, the people that this happens to, not just women, are usually very strong, intelligent people who are kind and unfortunately it can happen to anybody so a constant reminder i know we're a broken record

but it does not mean you're like not enough if somebody does this to you it means that you you stepped in some shit in the dating department and so that we can all step in shit sometimes yeah and he did it for years how do you do that for years and years i can't even it's that's wild to me do you think he had other people well i wondered that i but how would he have freaking time, but I don't know. I mean, it's not impossible considering who we talk to and like the stuff that we hear. We're trying to know what you guys thought of the episode and we want to hear from you. So make sure that you let us know on our Instagram or send us an email, whatever you've got to do. But we want to know what you thought of Rachel and Sandy's story. And if you had,

if you have a story that's similar that you want to share with us, just email it to us at investigate at datingdetectivepod.com. And we want to hear from you. And make sure you follow us on the Instagram dating detectives podcast. Also, we are always looking for any story, but especially stories that are not the traditional straight man cheating because there's a lot of bad people out there and it's not just the men. And yes, statistically it comes up a lot. There are female dogfish as well. And they're from all walks of life. And we want to let you know if you are a man and this has happened to you or something similar, we can totally anonymize you, but we want to kind of create a place where you can come and share things like that.

Highlight of the episode, Rachel's letter. Yes. To Jeff. Absolutely sensational. I need to, I want to memorize it and perform it as a monologue. I loved it. No notes. Stunning. Stunning prose. Stunning pros. She's a great writer. I know. She should, they should write a book. they could write a little book about this, a romance novel. It could be a friendship romance novel, you know? Oh, here we go. You guys, Hannah's obsessed with anybody that becomes best friends or anybody that kisses, Hannah loves it.

So that's her thing. So if you have those stories like, we love those too. It's great. Well, I guess I'll go read a romance novel or something and let you go on with your Monday. And everyone, we love you so much. Thank you so much for listening. you for the support. And give us five stars. Yeah, and share our podcast with a friend. Share our Instagram with a friend. We really, really appreciate your support so much. Thank you guys.

We love you. We'll have a good day. Bye. Until next time. Bye-bye.