The Dating Detectives - Mackenzie Undercover: The Curious Case of the Perfect Alibi

Episode Date: March 16, 2026

On this week’s Dating Detectives, Mackenzie and Hanna are joined by Talia Koren, host of the podcast Dating Intentionally, for a Mackenzie Undercover story that turns into a conversation about intuition, insecurity, red flags, and what it really means to date with purpose. As Mackenzie investigates a man’s growing suspicion that his much younger girlfriend is hiding something, the episode unfolds into an insightful look at trust, cheating, and the difference between anxiety and real intuition. Talia brings practical, no-nonsense dating advice to balance out the chaos, making this episode equal parts wild undercover case and genuinely helpful dating conversation. Want more of Talia? Listen to her podcast by searching Dating Intentionally on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow Talia on Instagram at @dating.intentionallyClick here to join our Patreon! For only $5 a month you will get 2 extra episodes a month, monthly virtual live events, and access to our community page. And now for $9 a month you can get all of that, plus ad free episodes!If you've been dogfished and want to share your story on the show, email [e-mail] or contact us through our website using this linkTake control of your data today. Get 20% off your DeleteMe plan by visiting joindeleteme.com/datingdetectives and using the promo code TDD at checkout. This episode is sponsored by Wayfair. Refresh your home for less. Shop back-to-routine deals by visiting Wayfair.com.***The following Program contains names, places and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following Program is provided for entertainment purposes only and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances.If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 for support.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following program contains names, places, and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-733 for support. Happy Dating Detectives Monday. It's a national holiday every week.

Happy Dating Detectives Monday. Woo-hoo. We have an exciting episode. It's McKenzie undercover, but we're joined with an amazing guest. Her name is Talia Corrin, and she's the host of the podcast Dating Intentionally, which I really love that word intentionally. We don't talk about that or not. No, for real.

Especially with apps, it feels like a game on your phone. Like you can just sit on the toilet and smoke. That's not intentional, everyone. but dating intentionally is a dating podcast, obviously a lot of great advice. She gives such great advice on this episode. Very practical advice. We love it. We think you'll all love it too.

And all the information on her show will be in the show notes. But today she joined us for one of your McKenzie undercover stories and gave her thoughts on all the crazy. Yeah. And I love getting other people's thoughts too because usually they're like, wait, what? And it's usually pretty rad. Oh, yeah. And it was nice to get her dating advice because, you know, we're not technically like a dating advice show.

It comes up, but mostly we're like a safety advice in love and self-love show. But she was like coming in with the tough love dating advice sometimes, which I appreciate it. Yes, for sure. So let's take it away on a McKinsey undercover and let's see what Talia thinks. Hello, hello. Hi, Talia. I'm so glad you're here. We have a guest today.

Thank you guys for having me. Thank you. I was just saying how excited I am that you're here because you give such good dating advice and I could use some and I think other people will too. But we said it a little bit. You're the host of dating intentionally podcast, which I saw why you started it. I think it's so cute. You were like, before I met my husband, I was dating and I was having so much fun. But everybody else said they hated dating. So I wanted to figure out a way to help them have fun too. I love that. That's right. I am so excited. to hear whatever story you have today because I've just been binging your show nonstop. And I wanted to share at front. Like when I was, I met over 50 people on dating apps and I don't really have a dogfish story that I know of. It's very possible that I was, but I cut things off so early that I just did it. Maybe I just didn't, yeah, like I didn't run into that. Well, that's the goal. I mean, I'm excited to talk to you.

We'll go through. We're doing McKenzie undercover, obviously. So as we go through, please jump in. with your thoughts on the relationships that come up, if there are any, you know, red flags or just things that we can learn from. For sure. Hannah's so excited. I can see her face and she's like, yes, go. So I do a lot of insurance fraud cases, by the way. That's actually how I got started was an insurance fraud, which is like, you know, oh, my neck and my back. And then you hire an attorney. They try to get you millions of billions of dollars or whatever. And so I've worked for the last 20 years very closely with insurance claims adjusters and attorneys. And so these are people that I just just having my Rolodex now that you've worked, you've worked hundreds of cases for these folks,

and they just, they know you, they request you to work their cases. They just become professional friends, right? There's an attorney that I had done work for, who was the attorney for a major insurance company. And he reached out to me personally and asked if I would help him on a domestic case for him. And I was concerned about conflict of interest because I've done work for him professionally, but it wasn't for him. It was for the company. And so he was representing the company. And so we decided this is something we could work together on. We'd never work together personally. So it would be fine. So we call this a domestic case, which is something where it's personal. So those can be child custody. They can be cheating cases, missing family members,

stuff like that, is something that's domestic. So he asked me if I would help him. And he says that he has a girlfriend. It's a longtime girlfriend. She is in her 30s. He is in his 30s. He is in his 50s. So he's significantly older than her. And they've been together for about two years. They live together. And so he knows her pretty well. And when he, as soon as he reached out to me, like, I trust this guy. He has good instincts. He's an attorney. He's a smart fella. So I knew that if this guy's calling me, there's something up. And so I'm like, for sure something's going on. I'm just going to help him out. So he says he thinks his girlfriend is cheating on him because she's doing the thing that is the typical standard complaints that I get from someone who thinks their spouse is cheating.

Hannah, what are they? Hiding their phone on a lot of time, would that be? Like, he doesn't know where she's going? Yeah. So he's saying she's being real secretive with her phone. The intimacy isn't there as much. She's pulling away. She seems distant, a little standoffish, like total red flags.

Talia, what do you think about if you're, in a relationship and you call a PI on your partner? I mean, I'm curious, like, did he talk to her about it at all before bringing someone in? Like, did he mention, like, hey, I've noticed even hiding your phone or like something up? Like, I just like, I feel like there's a step there of calling it out. So I'm wondering if he. Yeah, is this the last step or the first step? Yeah, I don't think that this isn't the first step.

So that's actually a good question. So here's where, like as soon as I decided to take him on as a client, I asked him the same thing. Have you talked to her? Is there just a suspicion or what? He says, well, I don't want to talk to her about it because I don't want her to feel insecure. We've had conversations about our past relationships where there have been trust concerns. And so if nothing's going on, I don't want to risk mentioning something. And so I'd rather just find out ahead of time without asking her so that she doesn't. feel like I don't trust her, which has been her issue in the past. Interesting. Yeah. So that's dynamic. Yeah. Already lots of red flags on both sides. At this point, I'm like, okay, he's much older. She's younger. She's gorgeous. I mean, model gorgeous. But this guy, he makes a lot of money. He's an attorney, you know, so I imagine that has maybe a little bit to do with it. Maybe I'm just

being a jerk and assuming incorrectly. But she's a 10. And he, I think he knows it. So I think he was feeling little insecure. That was my gut feeling at first. But I was like, I understood why, like, obviously communication is key. But he was like, because she had that issue in the past, he didn't want to create problems that there wasn't any. He just wanted to find out first. And so I kind of understood that. Okay. But I was like, just because someone has had issues in the past doesn't mean you can't ever touch those. Like, right. She would need to know that just because, like, her past issues don't really have anything to do with her current relationship. Right. at all. So yeah. That's true. But I also love that McKenzie's employed. So if he called you,

that's okay. Right. So get your bag, girl. Job security, job security. So typical standard complaint, she's being distant, whatever, and he does not want to talk to her about it. So on Tuesday night, she goes to a girl's night and they go to one of the girls' houses or they go to a restaurant and they might have a little wine. And she does this every week. But he was like, for some reason, I just think that's not what she's doing. And he knows better than to try and do it himself. Like never follow anyone by yourself.

That's illegal. That's called stalking or harassment. You can get a lot of trouble. So he knows if he wants to find out, like this is a way to do it legally. And he has the money, I think. So whatever, pay API. Let's see what happens. So I do a surveillance on the days that he thinks she's going to be.

be somewhere that she says she's not. So I let him call the shots. He's the client. I said, you can do this one of two ways. You can let me choose the surveillance days and do something totally random and just see if there's a random thing. But usually with the domestic case, the partner knows, like they say they're going to be doing this on this date. I want to see what they're doing during that time. So obviously, we do one of the surveillance is on the Tuesday. And I follow her from work. She goes home. She changes. And he's still at work. So he's, not there. She goes to the girlfriend's house and she's there with the other two ladies. I can't go inside the house obviously to see who else is there, but there's the other two ladies. They walk

each other out. Car, you know, hey girl, bye girl, love you. Kissy, kisses, whatever. And so she leaves and goes back home and she's, she's home by like midnight and then he's home by that time. So I do surveillance on four different days and she's doing everything she says she's doing. We did a surveillance on two of the girls' nights and then two other dinners or events that she had with other people or whatever work stuff. And he said, these are the times that you should go. And so I did surveillance and I was like, everything's on the up and up, man. And during this time, she's still being really secretive. He just doesn't feel right. He knows that something is wrong. But I'm doing these surveillance and I'm like, dude, based on the information you're giving me,

based on these times that you feel the most suspicious, nothing's happening. Like she went to the Jim. Nothing's out of order. As a matter of fact, more than one of the times that she went out with the girlfriends, they ended up changing their plans. But then once she came home, she told him, oh, we, we were going to so-and-so's house, but we ended up going here and they'd, you know, nothing fishy. Yeah. Like, he thinks he caught her in the act and he didn't. While you're surveilling her, this might not, you might not have access to this, but like, are you picking up anything about her personality? Do they seem like they'd be a good couple based on what you know of her? or are you not able to kind of?

No, you can really see her. So you know how people change? Like, I could see her around her girlfriends and she was really like laughing and giddy and silly and all of these things. But then one day she had met up with her mom for something and she's very like low key. They just met up at the post office to do something.

And so you can kind of tell like how people are, you know, you can tell she's when she's with her girlfriend, she's a little bit more let loose, which most of us are. But other than that, unless they show something super crazy, you know what I mean? but there's no so there's no like personality indication that anything's off in your mind at that point. Not really, but that's a good question because there are sometimes when I'm doing a surveillance and my spidey sense is just tingling and I'm like she's doing the thing that people do when they do

this or whatever. And so you can kind of like pick up on it and the way that people move, the way they talk, the way they act. It's really interesting, especially after 20 years just like watching people. So that can be something that you pick up on. But for her it was just she wasn't like, I was just a little bit bored with it. And it was just like, I don't think like, this is, this is fine. I feel like that's such a compliment. But isn't this like good news for your guy? Yeah, right.

Like, and obviously, this isn't 24-7 surveillance. So there could be things happening outside of my surveillance period that we don't know. But for the most part, she's not doing anything that he thinks is wackadoo, right? So him and I decide together that perhaps there's literally just nothing going on. And I try to not put my opinion into things. I'm just Paul Blart. Okay, mall cop document report. So I'm like, listen, you decide what you want.

But based on the surveillance that I did, this is literally what happened. He's like, well, what do you think? And I'm like, I think that everything that I documented shows that she's doing what she says she's doing. Maybe she's planning a surprise party for you. Right. Minds your business. That's my glass half full brain. And so he pays me for four days.

That's 32 hours of surveillance, right? And surveillance is like $100, $150 an hour, sometimes even more. Okay. So this guy's paid a good chunk of change. And so you want to find them results because people feel happy when they assume something. And then they're like, aha, gotcha. Like they love those gotcha moments. But when they've paid all that money and there's no results, they kind of feel like an asshole, right?

They feel like, well, that's stupid. Yeah. So what would you, what are your thoughts on their relationship at this point? like Talia, what would you, if he was your friend? So, okay, my thought, like I don't, I like a just, I think I know, I think I don't know where this is going. But right now, I'm like, okay, maybe she's chatting with someone on her phone. It's not that she's going to see anyone. Maybe there's a just a messaging relationship or that kind of infidelity going on.

Or something completely unrelated to dating. And it's like something else, you know, she's hiding on her phone that she's doing. Like an addiction to a game. I don't know. Yes. No, that happens too. Porn addiction, gambling addiction. Right.

Like, all of that stuff. But the whole living together and not being able to just talk about everything is the biggest red flag so far to me. Yes. No, I 100% agree. But so he's like, all right, I'll just keep an eye on it. And I guess I'll just check myself and just try to chalk it up to me being insecure. And then he's admitting to me because of their age gap.

He's like, she's a beautiful woman. She's younger than me. And so maybe I'm just feeling insecure. and I'm not getting a lot of validation that I need. So this is probably just that. So he's putting it on himself and taking accountability for maybe just feeling insecure, feeling some type of way. And so my spidey senses are like, he's probably right because now I'm going with his

gut, like what his feeling is. And I'm like, if he's feeling like that's what it is, then maybe that. So then my spidey senses were not tingling. But again, he couldn't explain why she was being so secretive and hiding her phone and just standoffish and weird. So he says he's just going to get a grip. He said, I'm going to work on myself and my confidence and maybe that'll help. And, you know, it just seems like everything is fine, I guess. So he's going to give her the benefit of the doubt.

So he's never going to tell her. He said, I'm not going to tell her that I was checking up on her. And literally just said it's got to be my insecurities. And that would be embarrassing to me to show her how insecure I am because that would be a turnoff for her. So all these things. He's got a lot to work on. He does. But said with love, said with love. But that's like sometimes that happens. You get an insecurity. or you get an insecure thought and you're like, let me follow up on this. And sometimes it's nothing. And I do the same thing.

Like that's happened to me too. And I think it's hard for people to admit that they're feeling insecure, especially men that I've worked with. The men really struggle with that. A lot of women that I work with, they're happy to admit they were just feeling jealous or whatever. And so I think that's interesting that as a man, he was willing to say I'm just feeling super insecure.

True. Most men, a lot of men, will act like I'm lying to them or I didn't do a good enough job. or I failed in catching their partner in the act because I'm not a good investigator. A lot of men will chalk it up to that. They'll be like, well, you just didn't find her because of this. Like, you're just not good enough and whatever. And they'll blame me. And I get that because you're spending money and not getting any results.

Like, I'd be pissed too, but not at me. Like, sorry. Like, you know what I mean? Right. Part of the job. Sometimes you don't catch up. That's wild. I don't know what to tell you.

Yeah. You guys, can we talk about Wayfair? Hannah, I know you love Wayfair. I'm sitting in my Wayfair chair. right now. I needed a very specific chair because I'm staying at my mom's for a couple months. I wanted to record this podcast without getting back pain. And I needed it to like fit in a corner and kind of swivel around, but I didn't want it to look cheap. There's so many options. That's where my vanity chair came from. They're so comfortable. I love them. And it's pink. And they have

different colors and styles of everything. Wayfair is a great way to refresh your space and make your home or office work better for you. And it doesn't matter what your aesthetic is, mid-century, modern, farmhouse, contemporary, eclectic, or Barbie. They've got Barbie, baby. They really do, whether it's organization or home projects, kids spaces, or, again, work from home, which is what I know about. Wayfair makes it simple to narrow down exactly what works for you and your style and your budget.

Yeah, any budget you want. It's all great quality. And they have installation and assembly services available for a truly seamless experience. And there's thousands of five-star reviews that help you shop with confidence. So if you're someone like me who I need to know what everyone else thought, that's really great. So you can find furniture, decor, and essentials that fit your unique style and budget. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home.

That's Wayfair, W-A-I-F-A-I-R dot com. Wayfair, every style, every home. But he was very self-aware, who's willing to look inward and consider maybe she wasn't just cheating. but I want to add that he has had a history of being cheated on by past partners. So I could see how if you're constantly getting cheated on, you think everyone's cheating on you. And so that contributes to your insecurity. And this is his girlfriend, not his wife.

So maybe it's that too. But he said they've been talking about marriage. And he's, he's, he's, solve everything. Right. He's scared to take that step because if there's ever a potential for her cheating and they're married and then he has to give away everything he's worked for. And so now he's thinking,

maybe it's because I haven't moved forward with any marriage situations that maybe she's cheating on me. So he just has a lot going on that he needs to work out. Okay. So we decide let's hang up the surveillance. We'll call it a day. But I said, let me know if we need to re-adress this like we can. I'm happy to help.

So I don't hear from him for a couple of months and where I'm just, you know, mine and somebody else's business. and I get a call from him. It's been like four or five months. And at this point, he's feeling super dumb. But he said, and he tells me, he's like, I feel really stupid. But now it's the opposite. She's acting super clingy.

She's oversharing. She's more emotional, overly willing to share what she's doing, where she's going. He said, now. Wait, Tanya. Why are you nodding so profusely? This was earlier when we were talking about, like, signs. Like, Hannah, you were saying signs that she could be cheating. this is actually the sign I was looking for of like sometimes when people are hiding something,

they are going to overcompensate and shower the other person with love to cover it up. So this is a sign I was looking for. Yes. And it's not love. It's actually guilt that they're feeling. And so they're like you said, they're overcompensating. But the problem is now he's already done a surveillance and didn't catch her doing anything and actually discovered the things that he thought were weird weren't actually weird.

And so now he feels silly for calling me a. again, but he's losing his mind over this because he knows. He said she's doing too much. And as an attorney, I know people, I talk to people, I deal with people, and it just feels like she's trying too hard. Extremely attentive to him, constant check-ins, unexpected affection, more intimacy and constantly seeking reassurance, all this stuff. And he said she would, she started coming home from every event. She would like sit on his lap and love on him. And she never did that before. So now he's the opposite, Spidey Tingles, okay? And the one thing that he did notice while she got more affectionate, the one note, the one change that he noticed was on her phone, the text settings where,

you know how when you get a text on iPhone, probably Android 2? And it'll show up on the top of the screen, but it'll show the first few words of the text. Like, hey, I'm going to and you, you have to click into it to re, but to click into it, have to unlock the phone, whatever. he said that he noticed that her settings changed that it no longer shows the summary of the text. It just shows, hey, you have a text message. And so the settings have changed. So now if a text message comes in, it just says text message. It doesn't say who is from.

It doesn't show a summary or anything. And he said, so that doesn't appear on the lock screen anymore. And it doesn't say from who or whatever. So obviously he can't tell who the message is from. And he can't prove anything from that. But he did notice that she changed it because before, like I said, would come across and show a little bit of the text. And he, it was just something.

His man tuition. That's another thing. His man tuition. And I think that's stuff you just notice sometimes. So it wasn't super suspicious to him because whatever he couldn't tell from what the text said. He couldn't tell who it was from anybody, if it was from anybody bad or so he just didn't think anything of it.

He's like, well, she's being overly everything else. This is the only thing she's changed. And he already feels dumb from the first surveillance, not catching her. And so he's dumbing down at, like he's making everything seem more. less now. So he decides he wants me to do more surveillance on her. Check on her on her girl's night out. Just try to find anything she's doing that's off. So I ask him, I always ask what's your budget? What do you want to plan for? What do you want to do? And he says, let's do another three days of surveillance. I want to see what she's doing on a girl's night just to make sure,

like just something's something again is off. She has an event on this day. I want to go check, whatever. So he wants me to go do the girls night. Girls night was totally on the other. up and up, they go to a movie, her and her two little girlfriends, and everything seems perfectly normal, nothing to report. The movie was dumb. Like, I was bored to tears. Like, I just wanted to sit in the theater. Yeah, I wanted to go in and make sure they weren't meeting fellas there. Like, I don't know. That would be a great place to have a sneaky little dark room. You can meet your little boyfriend inside the theater. No one has to know. It's fine. But nothing. So, you know, her tastes in movies is bad. Okay. Oh, my God. I can't even remember the movie, but I was like,

How, wake me up when it's over. Like, it was awful. But I will say that they did have wine in their purse, and I really thought that was awesome. Like, I was like, good for y'all. Good for them. They're doing it, right? Anyway, so they go to the movies, nothing.

She goes home after the second day of surveillance. She says that she has an event at some charity organization, right? And he says, listen, she's never wanted to do anything with charity a day in her life. He's like, listen. she's not a good person. This is really weird that she wants to do charity. Charity is just something she's never been a part of.

Like she's never shown interest. And she was, she's going to take her whole Saturday, which she normally goes shopping or gets a pedicure. And she's going to give up a whole Saturday to go do this charity event. And he said, must be wrong.

Something's off. Like, there's no way. And I do surveillance on her. So she gets there. And I go into this charity event, place and I'm seeing what she's doing in the silent auctions and she is working her tail off the whole day. She talks to anybody who walks up. She's not on her phone. She's, she is working this charity event. Like she is volunteering her time and that's what she does the whole day. And I document

it. There's nothing weird, nothing funny, suspicious, awkward, off different. It was just, it was fine. Like she was just doing the charity. She was doing volunteer work. And so then she goes home to him and that he's she gets home and he's home his cars and driver her cars in the driveway they're both there and she was literally just giving her volunteer time to this organization right i document her all day i literally there was nothing i watched her work all day long so he's insistent that i do surveillance on her after work and on the weekends and just any time to like see what she's doing and i reminds me if you know the meme that's like men will do literally anything before going to therapy That's what I've been thinking this whole time.

That's what I've been thinking this whole time. It's like specifically couples therapy, he'll spend this much money on a P.I. before just having a conversation. Not even couples therapy, but just having a conversation. Right. Like you don't pay money.

All of this could have been avoided. Like you could. Like why would you even want to stay in a relationship where you are constantly like, she's not there. She's lying to me. She's lying to me. Like there's just,

that's not a good. It's been, how long has it been since he first called you? Six months. Yeah. Yep. That's a long time to feel that anxious. And he's obviously feeling insecure the whole time. But I trust this guy because I'm like, I've worked with him for so long. But here's the thing. This guy keeps telling me I want you to do surveillance on this time, this time. Listen, fella, I've been a PI for 20 years. Okay. You going to have to let me do this job at some point. Okay. You can tell me when to go and what to do and all this stuff. And that's fine. It's your money. I ain't your mama do whatever you want. But at some point, I recommend, I say, listen, I'm going to need you to back off. Give me. the case and just trust me. And he's like, well, your Southern comes out. Girl, my Southern came out. I said, honey, listen, you got to just sit down and just let me do what I'm going to do. He said, well, what are you going to do? And I said, I'm going to do

surveillance on her at her work. I want to see what she does from morning to night, the whole day. Because if you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got. And so far, we ain't got nothing. So we're going to change it up. Okay. So I said, I'm going to do surveillance on her at work. He says, no, you're not. She's not doing anything at work. Don't be silly. And so I'm like, all right, listen, if nothing happens at work, this surveillance is on me. This day of surveillance is on me. Oh. I said, I bet you dollars to donuts. I'm going to get some information. And I'm going to find out. So you going to have to let me take the reins on this, buddy. So just got to give it up. He's like, all right, I trust you. I said, we've been working together a long time. I've saved you millions of

dollars in your little company from these surveillance. It's like, you got to trust me. I want to see who she's talking to, what she does, where does she go? Where does she go for lunch? What does she do? I said, I've worked a bazillion million cases for you. Like, just trust me. You know, I know my stuff. He says, okay. I trust you. He's a lawyer. So, of course, he doesn't trust anyone. But I'm like, dude, you called me. Let me do my job. Can you tell us what she does for work? Yeah. So she works at a 9 to 5 job at like, let's just call it an electrical type company. Just 9 to 5 office job in a little industrial area. Like nothing. crazy. Delete me makes it easy, quick, and safe to remove your personal data online at a time when

surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable. I think I've gotten like four texts in the past 24 hours that are scam texts, McKenzie. I feel like it's worse than ever. They're popping up everywhere for everyone. And the problem is people are falling for these scams and it's putting them at risk. Why are they getting my information? Like how come, it's so easy for them to find me. So let's talk about data brokers. Data brokers make a profit off of your data. So data brokers basically scour the internet

and collect your public information from public records and compile it and then charge somebody to find it. So your data, as we know, is a commodity. And anyone on the web can buy your private details from these data brokers. And again, this can lead to identity theft, fishing attempts, harassment, but you can protect your privacy with delete.

me. And the New York Times wirecutter named Delete Me their top pick for data removal services. What Delete Me does is they find the information that that's on the internet that you don't want out there and they eliminate it from the internet. Privacy is so important. And that's where Delete Me comes in. You get a subscription. They send you a monthly report of what they found, what they eliminated, and they keep you up to date. And for me, I use it and it makes me feel a little bit safer. Yeah, it's a great first step to protecting yourself. Take control of your data. Keep your private life private by signing up for Delete Me.

Now at a special discount for our listeners. Get 20% off your DeleteMe plan when you go to join deleteme.com slash dating detectives and use promo code TDD at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is go to joinDeletMe.com slash dating detectives and enter code TDD at checkout. That's JoinDeletMe.com slash dating detectives code TdDTECT. So I follow her to work from the house that morning. She gets to work and pulls into the parking lot and she parks the car, just normal.

I can see that she's fixing her lipstick. I can see that she's sitting in the car just like gathering her stuff. Like, you know, it's almost 9 o'clock. She's got to go inside in a few minutes. Well, there is other cars pulling in and people are going inside. This one particular car pulls in and a guy gets out of the car and then she gets out of the car and they start walking. in and I'm like, same time or is this a coincidence or is the same time? This is the same time. And I knew it. I was like, take that tag number. So I write down his tag number and I pull up so I

can drive by to videotape them walking inside together. And I want to zoom in on the guy's face so I can see if I can identify him. So what made you think they weren't just like coworkers? No, there's a, there's a spidey, you get tingles up your spine and you can feel it. It's just this weird. No, I get it. It's the same way that any time, I feel like any of my exes, like if they're, had a thing with a girl, like a friend or something, I just always knew. You just know. Before I had the info, I just always knew a little bit. I just, you just know. And this ain't my first rodeo. I said, I, that's this guy is something. Like, there's something going on with this fella. And so I take his tag number. They walk into the building. I videotape and I zoom in on his

face because he turns to the side. He holds the door for her. She goes in. And so now I have his tag number. So I go on the machine real quick. And I find his name. find his address and I'm doing all the research and I'm looking on his social media and I'm finding him sure enough confirm that it's the same guy driving so now I know the driver of a car is the guy that walked her in and on his social media like he's married he's got kids you know whatever so I'm like okay McKenzie slow down turbo let's not assume nothing we don't assume nothing ever so I'm like I want to sit here during lunch time so now like my guts are rumbling like I've got like I am anxiety because I'm like they are doing something at lunch watch I said just watch

and I knew it. And I said, I'm not about to give away this surveillance for free. No, ma'am. And so I'm sitting there all day and I'm crushing candy and I'm doing my makeup until lunchtime. And sure enough, they come out at lunchtime and they weren't holding hands or kissing or nothing because there were, but my spidey senses making my spine tingling my butt hole was puckered. It was a whole big thing. So at lunchtime, I was like, this man's, man tuition is about to be proven right. Right here come lunchtime and sure as the day is long, they come out together, a whole bunch of people come out, they're taking their cars and they're going to the Taco Bell or the gas station up the road for lunch. They're coming out smoking cigarettes, whatever. These two, they walk across

the parking lot into, there's like a wooded area where there's like a picnic table where you can sit or whatever. And it's like a, it's just like a like in the, like a shaded seat area, whatever. Well, they... I'm imagining, why am I imagining like twilight when they like walk off into the woods? Me too. I'm like imagining like a dense wood, but it's like a park, right? Or like... Yeah, it's like a, it's just like a parking lot and the areas that aren't paved as grass and trees.

And there's a picnic table there. Like it's, it's an industrial area. And so where they built it was just... He's not like leading her into the forest. So they go and they go to this picnic table and I'm like, here we go. Now I couldn't see very well because the picnic table is behind all these trees, but I could see enough. And now I can see that he's, and now I can see that he's, He's sitting on the table with his feet on the bench and she's facing him.

She's got her hands on his knees. And I'm like, that's not correct. And so I knew right then I was like, this is it. This is our moment. This is our big, our big moment. So where are you? Are you still in your car or do you get out? I'm still in my car.

And by this point, when they started walking over that way, I had to move my car because I couldn't see because I was close to the building and there was like a row of cars and then another row of cars and then the trees. And so I had to move my car. And so all these cars are moving around. It's lunchtime. So I move my car. I get in a position where I could see through.

And sure enough, I zoom into those woods. And you can see, like, there's trees covering them. So there's little pockets of, like, not leaves and not limbs and not branches. So there's little pockets of visuals where you can see. And so I'm zooming into them. So at one point I got, like, you couldn't see her face, but you could see her from, like, her armpit down to, like, her hip. And you can see that she's, like, rubbing his leg.

And so then I'm, like, catching different snippets of them. And by this point, I'm like, they're feeling each other up on a picnic table. And they're away from the building, not facing any windows at this point. So nobody could really see them. So they're kind of hidden. And nobody's out there. And so they are just like out here all willy-nilly in front of God, neighbor. And trees, you know, having little feelies.

And I couldn't tell if they were kissing until a stiff wind comes by. And the trees go, whoosh. And you see them. And I'm like, no way. because their faces were covered and like you couldn't see all they could see were like those little pockets oh my god and so the literally the lord said hold on let me help you out and then whoosh and so the trees move and you just see that they're neck and and kissing and i'm like oh man he was right and i felt so bad because i didn't believe him at first but then i knew it i was like if she's not

doing anything outside of work then there's something going on at work like something there's he's feeling something and so i trusted that right bummer i know and so And I was like, I was not ready to give away. I was like, I'm going to have to do like, I'm going to have to give away the surveillance, but I was right. And I knew it. I was like, I knew it. You were like, I'm happy, but I'm also not happy.

Yeah. Like, this is a bummer. Because you feel bad. And like, that's the worst thing to tell somebody. So anyways, they're neck in. Wait, one thing. You do feel bad, but there is like a, there's a weirdly good feeling about being right about those things.

And that's an interesting, it comes up all the time with guests. Like when, when. Well, especially if you have had anxiety about it for so long. Yeah. Yes. It sucks that you have to get an answer in this way, but it's like nice. It's like your anxiety was right. Sometimes your anxiety isn't right.

Yeah. And sometimes it could be the most devastating news ever. But as soon as you get that confirmation, there's a relief. There's something that happens. It's just like, thank God. Like you're competitive and you're like, yes, I knew it. Or I'm not crazy. Yeah.

Yes, exactly. I'm not crazy. I wasn't imagining this. This is for real. And so, Anyways, the lunch break is happening and people are driving in and out of the parking lot. They've left the workplace to go to Taco Bell or McDonald's or the gas station or wherever. Now people are coming back and they're starting to cut.

There's a lot of traffic going on in the parking lot. Well, they decide they're going to go over to his car and get in it. So this has happened. I cannot tell you how many times, a ton of times. They get into his car and they're doing whatever they do, which I can't see in the car because it's Florida. Everybody got their windows tenant. but they get in the car and then they get out of the car close to time to going back to work and they're fixing their pants and their skirts and they're fixing their hair and all this

stuff getting out of the car and she well so she gets out of his car she fixes herself and starts walking towards his car he gets out of his car and starts fixing himself she gets into her car fixes herself more because her windows were less tinted i could see what she was doing put on her lipstick again fixing herself and then he walks in and then she walks in and then she walks in them. They didn't walk in together this time. Like, that's not a stealthy guys. Yeah, very stealthy. So it turns out. I disagree. I think this is not a stealthy at all. No, 100. Exactly. I'm like, I'm surprised that like how I'm not stealthy this. Not stealthy at all. No one saw us. Okay. Like, hello, we can see you. Getting out of the one car. And I would like to point out that

these cars were parked up against the building where all the windows of the building were anybody could have seen. Maybe they just know who works at those desks and they don't care. I don't know. Well, I feel like that's such good office gossip. Like if the office kind of is suspecting. Oh, they got in the car together. That just gets them through the day. Well, here's the kicker. My client has been so insecure about everything. And he's like, this got to be like the age, the age thing. She's very beautiful. She's much younger than me. Maybe she is with me for my money. So I presented this information to him and I told him, I said, fella, you were right and I was right. Did you call him? Did you do it in person? Yeah. So I, after they went back inside, I call him and I tell him what I saw and I took pictures on my phone from my camera. I was just like showing him what I had seen or whatever. And that one five, that one five seconds when the wind blew and it like spread all the leaves apart and I could see them kissing. That was the only image, the only visualized.

got of them kissing. Other than that, it was just her hands on him, which is telling also. But so I shared that with him and I said, you were right. And I'm so sorry. And normally I'll let you know, I would not just call somebody and tell them that. Like, I would wait until the surveillance is over, get them in a public place because now I don't, like, I'm still at this place. Like, I don't want him to call her and then they call the cops. I mean, whatever. Or he shows up there. Or he shows up there. Right. So I normally don't. But I know this guy, trust this guy. He's a professional. I've worked with him for a lot of years. So I just went ahead and called him. So I share this with him. And when I showed him, like I sent him in the pictures while

I'm on the phone with him and I said, this is, you know, what I saw or whatever. And I think the worst part is he said, I knew it. I'm too old for her. The guy, the guy at her work was 22 years old. He's like, I knew that I was too old. And now she's with, she's with a child. She went from one extreme to the other. So this young guy, he was good looking. He has tattoos. He's very buff. He drives a cool car. Like, whatever. And she's in her mid-30s with this 22-year-old and she's got this 55-year-old. I am 30. I don't even want to have a conversation with a 22-year-old. No, definitely not. But imagine, imagine that is your biggest insecurity just to find out that your girl is cheating on you with a 22-year-old in his car, like your teenagers. And so, he was like, I knew it. He had that feeling of like, I just knew it. But also he was devastated. And it broke my heart for him. But I will say that the next thing that he said was, thank God, I never married her. So it's kind of like a way. Like I think for him it was like an answer. He was like, thank God I never talked about marriage. Because this is what I'm, you know, I'm glad for this. I think it's, this was just a classic

case of needing to see it because I think he knew the whole time. obviously he kept pushing to find evidence. Yeah. There's a reason he was putting off getting married. It's just so interesting that sometimes we really do need to see it. I mean, what do they say? Like the body knows before the brain does sometimes. And your body will physically manifest like a stomach ache or whatever.

And you're like, what's going on? And then you really, yeah, we talked about that. I think the first time with Jenna Jean was in our Jenna Jean episode, Hannah. Yeah, she like was sick with this person. She was getting physically ill and didn't understand why. And then she was like, oh, my body is time. That's what the intuition is and we don't realize that like in our brains. Is this intuition or am I crazy?

It's literally our body recognizing patterns before our brains catch up. Yes. Is what it is. That's why it works is because you do know more than you think you do. And that's what that's the science of intuition. It's interesting. But I will say that I reached out to him because this was several years ago. Yes, I need to know.

I reached out to him and I said, hey, because he's told me he listens to the podcast, like whatever. And I said, I want to share your story on the podcast. Obviously some details have been changed to keep his anonymity, but I did say that I wanted to share it and he said it was okay. And since that time, he is married. He does have a young son with his wife and he feels so confident. They're in a great marriage. And on social media, everything's great, all this stuff. But this 22 year old kid was also married and had a baby with his wife on social media. I told him who the other guy was. And he, he did not want to have to explain who he was. So he talked to my subject, the woman, and basically said, you're done. I'm done with you.

Get out. Like I do not. He was insecure, but he had the gall to say, hey, get out. I'm not going to deal with this. And so she ended up. I bet she threw a fit. Yeah, 100% because that's for cash cow, right?

And so not only that, but now she's with this guy who is married with a child. and now she can't be with him either. And so as far as I know, like, I don't know if she ever told the other guy, like, hey, you've been busted or whatever. But my client is holding on to the information that this guy was with his girlfriend. And I imagine that's like he can kind of do whatever he wants with that. Like we have video proof, right?

Yeah. Oh, wow. That's kind of crazy. I mean, I'm glad we have a happy ending for your client. Like, I'm glad he's married. I just want to know, though. Do you know how old is wife is? His current wife is in her 30s also.

She's late. Wait, they met when she was 39. He threw her 40th birthday party. And that's the night she got pregnant. They got married shortly after that. And they've been together. All the info. Yeah.

Okay. That's awesome. Because like I was thinking like this guy cannot date 20 years younger if he is this insecure and this keeps coming up whether there, you know, there is infidelity or not. Yeah. Like if you're that insecure for him. Like, you need to, it's okay to date, like, women who were in their late 30s, early 40s and over. Like, it's fine. Yeah. And he seen, I'll be honest. Like, he seems really happy and he's not heartbroken anymore.

Obviously, again, this was years ago. But it does make me happy that he, he, he, I guess, like, the whole thing was he felt so stupid. But at the end of the day, he trusted his man tuition. I think he just knew. We didn't catch her with everything. but at the end of the day, I was like, listen, this is our Hail Mary. Let's do surveillance on her at work. And sure enough, as a workplace romance. And that's one of the most common infidelity is workplace romances. Well, that's something that I wanted to call out because your client was like, oh, work. Why would you do to work?

Like, obviously, bro. That's where it's happening. Yeah. And she works for this like, this is an electrical company. There's not a lot of women who work here. So I imagine for this other fellows, like not a choice is more, probably of a lot of lack of option. You know what I'm saying? Like, whatever. I guess also it's just if there is one place where you're like, I am 100% sure that's not where stuff is going down. That is an indicator to think

about it more. I feel for him. And I feel like as much as we were saying, just have a conversation with her. Don't keep paying for a PI to find this stuff. It's like, I hope now in his relationship and all the any relationships he had before this marriage, it's like you have to go through sometimes the relationship where you went through the phone and you shouldn't have. You called the P.I. You did find, like, you do have to go through the spirals in order to learn how to be more secure in relationships, unfortunately. So I get it.

I just feel bad that he spent so much money to find out something he deep down already knew. Well, also, ironically enough, before he got into the position he's in now, he actually did family law. And so I think it was smart. Like, you know what private investors. can offer. He went about it the legal way. He went about it the right way, whatever his man tuition was saying. But I think for him to acknowledge that he, he was insecure and, you know, he did feel insecure about it. But also his, his man tuition was just screaming at him. And I think

that's important to know. Like he, he just knew it. But it's just to kind of get kicked in the nuts with you, you know, you're insecure about being older. And then she's with someone much younger. That must have been really hard. But honestly, I mean, she downgraded because she's babysitting now if she's with that guy. So like, right? There's no, like there's, he on his social media, he still shows the wife and kids. So I think she got Godspeed, honey. Yeah. That sounds not fun to me. But she moved out almost immediately after he, he found out. And also to point out, you're this professional man. And we talk about this all the time on the podcast. People are like, oh my God, how could I be so stupid? No, you're not stupid.

Like people do like, you know what I mean? You're not stupid just because, oh, I'm an attorney. I should have known better. Like I should have known. No, that's not a thing. This comes up with dating too. A lot of my clients would be like, I've been in situations before. Why am I doing this?

I've been in this before. And it's because our feelings get in the way. Our feelings are very powerful. We're so human. And our desires are very powerful. So it's like, yeah, like even if you know better, you don't, the feelings get in the way. Yeah, absolutely. Can we go back to talking about.

about like the anxiety being right sometimes. Yeah. Because he was deeper in the relationship, but I feel like this comes up early in dating too, where especially now, I know people that listen to our show, it's hard to walk away and trust anyone. Like how can we differentiate between anxiety

that's not serving us and good intuition voices? Like how do we know if someone actually likes us or if they're love bombing us? How do we trust that we're, you know, how do we trust our femme tuition as we say? if you have thoughts on that. So I do, and I think McKenzie like this answer, I always say focus on the facts. Like, really zoom out and look at their behavior.

Are they showing up in an appropriate way for how long you've known each other? So like on the love bombing front, that would be like, right. So like if you only known each other for three weeks and they're already saying things like, I've never met anyone like you, that's a huge red flag. You can't say that after knowing someone for three weeks. Even though it feels really nice to hear, that's in the love bombing territory. But if they're saying something like, I'm enjoying getting to know you, I'm looking forward to our next date, that's fine. So I think just really looking at the facts of like how often are they getting back to me within 24 hours? Cool. Are they answering my questions thoughtfully? Are they showing up present on dates? Like those are the things we're looking for. Like, okay, no, they're here. They're in it. They like me. And I am enjoying that behavior too. So I always like to just ground myself in reality to differentiate between my intuition and anxiety.

My therapist literally always says that. So I know that you're both really good. She's always like, Hannah, like, actually, she'll ask me for evidence when I'm like, this person hates me. She's like, okay, do you have evidence of that? And I'm like, I don't like that question. But see, for me, like, if you say, do you have evidence and I'm like, no, it's because I, I've done so many cases where it turns out that I, it was something.

I just didn't find anything at that time. And so it's like, do you have evidence? No, not yet. not yet. Well, I think in this case, we just talked about the evidence before he worked with you was her secrecy and the weird behavior. Yeah. And the other route he could have taken would have just been talking to her versus hiring you. But like, ultimately he was right because that was the fact.

She was acting weird. People might argue, okay, you have a conversation with her. Hey, I'm feeling weird about this. Is this happening? Like, never is she going to be like, yeah, I'm cheating on you. Do you know what I mean? How do you have a conversation without trying to pull answers out of them? Okay.

So someone who isn't cheating on you will, and if they're a good partner, they're going to be meeting you with compassion. They'll be curious. They'll be like, well, how can I actually make you feel more reassured? They're going to show up. If there's something up, they're going to be defensive. They're going to double down. Like, no, you're crazy. There's something wrong.

What are you talking about? I'm not acting weird. You're acting. They're going to be like that if they really are hiding something. And I think also with phones, I do think there, I don't think anyone should ever be snooping or looking at their partner's phone without for their permission. But I do think if there's a if there's a history of cheating, if there's something that, like, I think it's okay to show each other your phones. Like, here, take a look. I have nothing to hide. Here you go. My husband and I know each other's pass codes. We don't openly go on each other's phones. But we have each other's location. Like, we have nothing to hide. I'm so with you. And I'm so like open. I have nothing to hide. And I'm, it's weird to me when somebody wants to keep. I mean, I have to be careful, though, because sometimes somebody's like, oh, I don't like social media. I'm. private and I'm like red flag but it's like not always. That's fine. My husband like I think he yeah like he

didn't have any social media. I think he posted for the first time in five years that we got married. Like that was like his first post. You're going to post. That's a good one. That's like nine. That's fine. And I get that. Like I definitely understand there are a lot of people that are private people. But yeah, navigating that in the dating world. I think you just have to trust your gut. Like when you feel like something's off, you have to go with that. Yeah. A hundred. The other thing about trust in dating is I think everyone starts with an A, right? And you can take away points based on what their actions are. Like, it's not like, like, that's one way. That's how I approach building trust. Like, I'm not, I'm going to trust you until you give me a reason not to. And I'm not going to trust you with my life. Like, I'm not like going to overshare and trust you the way I trust my best friend that I know forever. Just a little bit. Just enough. I'm not going to. An appropriate amount for how long I've known you. And then from there, it's like, okay, I'm going to see how you act and decide if I can keep trusting you. That's how it builds.

I'm someone who I just and I think it's because of my job. But like and because of I've been hurt a lot. And so me, I'm like, I'm not trusting you at all until you show me I could like you need to work for. And that's, I guess that's not healthy. But it's I just can't help it. I don't know how to change that. It's a balance.

Like you give them a little bit. You give them a little bit to work with. Like it's like if it's like a rope, you're giving them like a little bit of rope. And then that can get longer and longer as. You get to know them, but you can't give them nothing because then it'll never build. Like, if you have all your walls up. So it's why I have no friends. You know, it can be small.

That's cool, please. In early days, you could be like asking them for a favor. If they say they're going to text you at 8 o'clock, seeing if they do. And, okay, they follow it through in their word. That's another point towards trusting them kind of thing. All of this requires a lot of confidence in yourself, and that's a constant. Oh, yes. You have to have a lot of security and confidence.

in yourself 100%. Yeah. How do we build that in your opinion? Big question. But like, how do we not seek validation through dating? Well, I think, yeah, obviously that there's a lot of different pieces of work. One, of course, is a self-care and validation. Self-respect is a big one. Just treating yourself with the basic respect that you would want from other people is I think I work on that too. I'm like, am I respecting myself in this moment? So that's one area. The other area is just actively looking for signs that people are good, right? Like, if you're always looking for signs that people are bad and going to hurt you, you're going to find those signs. So it's like confirmation bias again. So even with your friends and family can start there of like, oh, people are showing up for me.

People are kind to me in my life. And I think the more of that kind of security you build, the less it matters when someone doesn't show you that. It's like, no, you don't, you don't deserve to be here. You don't deserve to be in this crowd. You don't deserve access to me. I'm out. Yeah. Because when you focus, don't deserve access to me, that's a big statement. Yeah. And when you focus on- I said to all my clients, like, if they're not showing up, they lose the privilege of dating you if they didn't follow through, you know.

And I think it's important to recognize that it is a privilege to date you. And if you're not feeling that, it's okay to take a break from dating. I know we feel pressure, especially as women, to like get it done. but I am such a fan of... I did not take any breaks, but yet. Well, I mean, yeah, well, let's talk about that. Like, how can you build confidence while you're dating? Do you have to take a break, do you think?

Okay, so my approach to building confidence while dating was truly in the beginning. I wasn't dating for a relationship. I was dating to build experience. So I just didn't give any Fs about anything. I was like, you know what? I don't care where this goes. I'm experimenting. I'm learning.

You know what I call that? What? I call it like dating. you're on vacation where it's like, I might not see this person again. It's just, I'm just doing this to enjoy myself. I'm going to be nice, obviously. I'm not like using them. But I, I, you're respectful. You show up and you just tell people, you know, you can say I'm not looking for anything serious right now. And that means that the dates don't go, you don't dates one for more than like two or three times, which is why I probably didn't run into any of these issues that you guys cover on the show because I was

dating in that way of like this connection is going to last maybe up to five dates. I wasn't ready for a relationship. I wasn't ready. I knew that. I knew I wasn't ready because I wasn't ready to deal with someone's flaws. I was like, I don't want to deal with your flaws. I love that. That is so empowering.

Polly, you're coming to me. You're arriving in my life at a really good time. Oh my gosh. I was so glad. I just want to see you find someone who you're excited about, who treats you right. And like, that's the, that's what gets them into your life. That's what allows them into your life is if they treat you really well and you are excited to be with them.

And, you know, it should be easy in the beginning. If you're full of anxiety and even if you're an anxious person, if you're like, some people are like, oh, I lean anxious, so I'm always going to feel anxious. That's not true. Some people actually won't trigger your anxiety as much. And those are the people we should focus on. Problem is people aren't usually attracted to those people.

That's another story. Oh, my God. That's so true. Do you have anything else you want to tell the people about where they can find you or what they should do? they search for love. Yes. You are always welcome to slide into my DMs on Instagram at dating. Intentionally. And you can listen to my podcast. Dating intentionally, it's everywhere. It's a must. It's a must. Thank you so much. Thank you guys. Especially to balance us out.

Like you listen to a horror story and then you go listen to dating intentionally. Yes. And I can't wait to have you guys on with love. That's going to be fun. I can't wait.