The Dating Detectives - The BYU Bandit: Part 1

Episode Date: August 24, 2026

In Part One of this two-part story, Mackenzie and Hanna sit down with Courtney, whose journey from devout Mormon missionary to queer student at BYU leads her into an underground LGBTQ+ community, and into the orbit of its charismatic, chaotic leader. What begins as a story about coming out, leaving the church, and finding the people who finally make her feel understood quickly becomes a tangled web of love bombing, ex-fiancées, blurred boundaries, suspicious stories, and a relationship Courtney can never quite seem to escape. As Courtney and her friends turn their fight for acceptance into a movement, and begin raising money for a queer resource center, the stakes get much bigger, and the red flags become harder to ignore. Buckle up, Sleuthies, because this one is only getting started.Click here to join our Patreon! For only $5 a month you will get 2 extra episodes a month, monthly virtual live events, and access to our community page. And now for $9 a month you can get all of that, plus ad free episodes!If you've been dogfished and want to share your story on the show, email [e-mail] or contact us through our website using this linkThis episode of The Dating Detectives is sponsored by Monarch. Get 50% off your first year of Monarch Core at monarch.com with code DATING. This episode of The Dating Detectives is sponsored by SKIMS. Shop SKIMS Cotton and our favorite pieces at skims.com, and after you place your order, select Podcast in the survey and choose The Dating Detectives from the dropdown menu. This episode of The Dating Detectives is sponsored by Ladder. Visit ladder.fit/datingdetectives for a free 7-day trial with no credit card required and $10 off your first month if you join. This episode of The Dating Detectives is sponsored by We-Vibe. Visit wevibe.com and use code DATINGDETECTIVES at checkout for 20% off your first order. This episode of The Dating Detectives is sponsored by Coyuchi. Visit coyuchi.com/detectives for 15% off your first purchase. Some exclusions apply. ***The following Program contains names, places and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following Program is provided for entertainment purposes only and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances.If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 for support.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following program contains names, places, and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-723 for support. Happy dating detectives Monday. It's actually Monday this time. Yes, last week we had a snafu, and now we're back. And thank you for understanding, and we love all of you and all of our guests. And we have quite a story this week and next week, because guess what?

It's a two-part of her. Baby. I'm really impressed with our audience. You guys know how grateful we are for you, and we just appreciate all of your support for the show and our Patreoners and everybody who comes to the live shows. that's amazing, but also the way you support it, you showed support to the guest who decided not to share her story. I just want to say thank you for that because sometimes it puts a kink in our plans

and then things don't go the way it's supposed to. But just to support her knowing that maybe she just wasn't ready. And I just wanted to say thank you. All of you guys sent a lot of really nice messages supporting her. So thank you. Yes. And obviously this is a show, but the goal for everybody, Benzie and me and Molly and everyone behind the scenes is always.

just to like amplify your voices. So that's what it's about. And I also want to thank you for spreading the word because our guest today, Courtney, posted about her story and people in the comments said, you got to go on the dating detectives. So thank you for doing that because this is definitely an important story, definite trigger warnings.

There's religious trauma and some talk of suicide and physical abuse, but it's also a queer story and talks a lot about queerness in the way that it works into her. early relationships. And I unfortunately think it will resonate with a lot of people. And I am very interested to hear what people think, especially if they've grown up in the church or in any kind of religion that has really, you know, kept them small.

Which so many people have. I think so many people are going to relate to this for sure. Yeah. And we also like, disclaimer, love everybody. If you don't hurt people, we don't, we're not mad about it. So if you're religious and it's not hurting anybody, we're not here to just like, blanket statement criticize the Mormon church. But it's her experience.

We're not trying to villainize an entire group of people. Everybody's different, but a lot of people have this experience, and it's important we talk about it. Absolutely. Should we get into it? Let's meet our guest. Yeah. Courtney, thank you so much for being here.

We're so glad that you're here and that you're allowing us to be an ear and a platform for you. Will you please share your story with us? Yes, of course. Thank you for having me. Oh my gosh, of course. So I'll start with me. I grew up very, very, very religious. I grew up in the Mormon church, which seems to be a pretty popular topic these days. There are a lot of people, especially women with stories about the church. I'm 31 now. So in the 2010s, when I was a teenager, the church was still very unknown. A lot of kids in my school would call me Amish because they didn't know the difference. So a lot of people just didn't know about it in the way that they do now. So I was seen as a little more of an outsider. But I grew up in North Carolina where the church is not super big. And I'm also an only child. So the church was my only way of socializing with people.

And every summer I was doing girls camp and all of that. So that was my entire community. That was a part of my entire life. So I ended up going on a mission for the church. And I went to Argentina for 18. months. So whenever I came back, I had already done a year in school in North Carolina. And so I just went back to the same school. And I started a job at Chipotle and I met a girl. And it was almost instantaneous that I knew that I liked her in more than a friend way. Like, I was very attracted to her.

How did that feel for your little Mormon inner child? Oh, it really threw a wrench in my Mormon plans. I was like, oh no, this is not, like it's good, but it's not good. I knew I was in for something. So it was very easy in the beginning. We just started, this is someone different, by the way. This is just my very first girlfriend that I had. We just started seeing each other every single day. We were working together and we fell very easily into each other's lives. But I started to panic because of the way that I grew up. And I felt like I was going to have to choose between God or loving this girl. And, That was really hard. So naturally, I didn't communicate with her at all. And I just decided, let's move across the country and go to BYU, Idaho. Brigham Young University. Yes. It's like a very Mormon university.

And you can go there for cheap because tithing from the church members provides a subsidized education for you. So it was only about five grand a semester. And I got a lot of Pell Grant. So it was basically free. if you remember. Nice, okay. And these are, this is legit, accredited colleges? Yeah, yes and no.

Tea. Yeah. They are. I mean, they are. Like, there definitely are, but I know that there's a lot of very conservative rules about, like, drinking. And I guess a lot of colleges have, like, dry campuses. But I feel like it's more than that, right?

It's, like, very baked into the culture. Mm-hmm. Well, and, like, we'll get into later, there is an honor code there as well. So people can turn you. you in for breaking any of the school's rules, which are based around being Mormon. So drinking, smoking, premarital sex, any of that, your roommate could turn you in or just someone who sees something can turn you in. It's very surveillance-stated, you know, like teaching you to

like tell on your neighbor kind of thing. Yeah, and that feels like... Tad old telling. Oh, man, my college roommate has done some damage. They know everything, don't think. I'd be in jail. Yeah. Well, that's a scary thing at your age, too. At 18, I feel like you just really are living in this eggshell fear kind of environment. Yeah. I also, I was 21 at the time, actually, because you can go on a mission when you're 19. So whenever I had gotten back, it was pretty quick, like, it was a quick turnaround of me

starting to date this girl and then getting accepted to BYU, Idaho. And I was just panicking. So I was like, I need to get in there as soon as I can. So you did date this girl. I did, yes. Okay. So you guys- No, we were like fully in a relationship and whatnot.

Okay. Yes. I had only come out to a few people in my life at that point, but I was like, I don't know how far we can ride this, you know? So I'm going to school. It makes me sad too, thinking back to it. But it was all part of my journey and I see now that everything worked out the way it needed to, I guess. Fun fact, when I was in college for score and seven years ago, I thought credit cards were magical money.

And then I would just like swipe, swipe, swipe, swipe, because we didn't have tap back then. But anyways, I would swipe and then I'd get the bill and be like, uh, whoopsie. And then I'd be like, well, I can't pay it. What am I going to do? And then it just went to my credit. And my credit was shot for the longest time. Now there are more things available to us that help us rewrite the story of our finances, just like Monarch.

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And this has such a wide range of styles. It's comfortable for every size. And it has a wide color range. And it's just like really comfortable. Like all of the clothes too, I'm going on a flight later and I will be wearing my like like, it's called the, what is it, cotton jersey straight leg pant.

Woo, comfy, comfy. I love those. Shop Skims Cotton and all of our favorite pieces at skims.com. After you place your o'clock, be sure to let them know that we sent you. Just select podcast in the survey and select our show in the drop-down menu that follows. Once I moved to BYU, Idaho, I was attending this college. And my plan at the time was, I'm going to find a man, some man that I can deal with that's Mormon. And I can just continue on my path and not have to worry about any of this friction that I'm experiencing.

and I went through the whole repentance process with my bishop at church. Oh, man. He told me that. Yeah. It's basically just psychological torture and shame. Yeah, well, you tell, I was raised Jewish, so tell me what that entails, if you don't mind. Yeah, absolutely. There's so much.

Mormonism is so complex. The repentance process, you go to your bishop, who would be like a preacher or the leader of the congregation in your church. and it's always a man and you tell them your sins it's kind of like catholic confessional except for they give you a prescription basically after of like a spiritual prescription of things to do to get back into good graces with god and usually with sexual sins so homosexuality is categorized under a sexual sin regardless of if there is sexual contact so there's a sacrament that goes around every Sunday with the bread and water and it's supposed to represent the body and blood of Christ, you can't take that for a while. So some bishops will tell you that for a whole

year, you can't take the sacrament. So everybody in the congregation's nosy. Like everybody sees what's going on. And when you pass it, people are like, oh, like she did something bad. You know what I mean? It's kind of like a public. Shame. Shame. Oh my gosh. So that's one of them. And then there's a temple that you go to. So there's like regular everyday church and then there's a temple. Those are like the big beautiful buildings that there's a ton of them in Utah. They've got them sprinkled throughout the states, but that's where you go to do like, I guess more complex work within the Mormon church. So I got my, what's called your endowment before you go on your mission. And that's when you get a special underwear. People call it. And you go through all the

ceremonies. But you can't go in there for a whole year as well. So you get a card. This sounds so wild. You get a card that has a barcode on the back of it, and it's like your membership card, and you scan it when you go into the temple. And if your bishop has decided that you're not worthy to go to the temple, they can deactivate it so you can't get it in. They design it so that you're so, you're kind of like a self-driving car by the time that you're 21 is how I view it in my head. Because the shame and guilt is already built in up here. And like the God that they teach you about, Heavenly Father. is already up here judging you all the time. So by the time I went to college, it was like, yes, I was meeting with my bishop and we were going through this repentance process,

but the voice in my head was the one causing contention for me. It was like, you can't be with this woman because you're giving up God and your family and your friends. And now my school, because you have to be, well, you don't have to be an active member to go to BYU, Idaho, but you still have to follow all the rules. And your housing is, is you have to be in BYU approved housing, or you have to get a special exception to live with a family member. That's the only time that you don't have to live in BYU housing

when you go to school there. And they do that so that if you break the honor code and you get kicked out, this happened to one of my friends, you lose your housing, and then you don't get a refund at all for your semester. So a lot is writing on you being worthy to go there. So this is where we're at.

You know, I'm kind of back and forth with this girl. I'm going through the repentance process. I'm feeling very torn. Okay. We're torn between God and dating a woman. Classic. So another thing BYU does is they pair your apartment. If you, well, you're going to live with all women if you go to BYU.

So they pair your female apartment with a male apartment in the same complex. And you guys are supposed to meet up once a week to do an activity together. and this is to encourage you to date people. And we were paired with an entirely gay apartment, all gay men, like flamed game. What? Really? I hate to laugh. It's not funny because it's like really messed up, but it's...

No, but it was funny. We joked that God put us together, so God loves the gay. Yeah, you were meant to find each other. Yeah. Because I mean, I'm already doing this thing with this girl. I'm like struggling with my sexuality, struggling with same-sex attraction as what they call it. And then my roommates, I had talked to them at the time. They were all also questioning their sexuality.

And we all just kind of had big conversations about it. So whenever we got paired with the gay apartment with the guys, we were like, okay, let's make something happen here. And so when they came over for our activity at our apartment, it was around June. And I just went, so do you guys have any plans for pride next month? or just to kind of like fish and see what they were all just like oh my god they were like are we safe or does you know yeah well you have to play that game at v yu because you never know where your ops are and so one of them was like yeah we're going to salt like city pride what are you guys doing and so that opened the door for all of us to be like okay you guys are cool we're cool let's hang out let's be

friends and then they tell me about a queer group at biu idao but it's not affiliated with the school it's just a group of queer students and non-students who get together every week so i'm like there are more of you here this is crazy lead me to your people like take me there you know so i start going to a couple of meetings with my roommates. And the president of this club is the one that is, well, I don't want to call her the star of the show, but. No, she's the villain. Yes.

So she's president at the time that I joined this club. She is also engaged. President of Underground Queer BYU club, which is like badass. Yeah. Unfortunately, it was at the time. That was the poll, though. You know, it's somebody that has some power, some influence, and they're kind of ruffling some feathers a little bit.

So you're like, okay, I'm a little inspired by that. But you said engaged? She was engaged to someone, yes. So as I enter this club with my roommates, we started hanging out with one of the members from this queer group who told me about the president. And me and the president had not, spoken directly yet. So my roommates and I had gone to a couple of these meetings. And the format would be

we'd meet up at, I think it was like some kind of shelter maybe. There was some building in town that we would meet up in. It was like a business that let us meet there after hours. And we would have an informative queer night. So we would do queer trivia. It was really, really fun. And then the next week, we would do alternating weeks. The next week, somebody would be in charge of an activity. So it was kind of Mormon coded still. Yeah, it was within the queer room. I kind of assumed you guys were just partying. No, that was after hours.

Okay. It's still very like communal educational. That's sweet. Yes. And the president also hosted parties about sexual awareness too and had somebody come talk about like condoms and toys and they did HIV testing one time. So it was very, you know, helpful.

Like it seemed really cool. So yes. whenever I started joining this group, there was one person that I was talking to. They were telling me about the president, like what the deal was with everyone. And I was on a hike with this person, and they told me that the president had said,

she was worried I was coming to take her throne. That was a direct quote. Had not had a conversation with this girl yet. But I was like, take your throne. Like, are we in middle school on the playground? What does that mean? Is this Game of Thrones? Are you the Queen of England?

Apparently so. I mean, thank you. Yeah, she really thought you had it in you. I guess. So I think something was like threatened by me, maybe. I genuinely do not know. We had never really chatted. And so that was my first introduction to her.

And my first impression of her was that she seemed like she had her shit together. You know, she's the leader of this group. Like I said, she was hosting these parties and these weekly events were really fun and that she was engaged. So I was like, okay, she's an adult. Like, you know, she's doing her thing. So I had actually reached out to her first. I had gotten her number from that person that I went on the hike with because I had heard some other things. And I was like, hey, I've been involved in some drama before.

I don't want us to miscommunicate with each other. let's just hang out because I'd really love to talk to you and get to know you. I don't want any bad feelings, basically, was the idea. Nice. That was the beginning of a very long journey. That was the beginning of bad feelings. That's what I get for communicating. No good deed, no good deed.

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I don't know what to do so then I don't feel confident about my workout. But that's why I'm grateful for ladder. I'm so with you. And even when I do feel like I know a little bit more about what's going on in the gym, I just don't want to think about it. I don't want to be counting. I don't want to be thinking about what muscle groups and ladder makes it so easy. So the way this works, it's not a content library.

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appealed to me because I was still figuring my sexuality out. And I wanted to be that sure. So I was like, maybe I could, you know, learn something from her or siphon some of that confidence. So I text her and I meet up with her at her apartment. And we just kind of were getting to know each other. And I had told her about the girl that I was going back and forth with because she seemed like somebody I could talk to about that and maybe had some good advice for me on how to survive in that town with a girlfriend that was long distance and figuring out my relationship with God.

So I opened up to her about that. and she revealed to me that her and her fiance were very off and on and kind of toxic. Yeah. Oh. And like I'm going to be off and on when you're engaged. Yeah. Right? I was just, I was like, aren't they?

Yeah. That feels pretty on. Yeah. I think they were engaged three separate times. They broke it off officially that many times. It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure three is the number. It was significant. It was more.

the norm. And they would have these big fights because both of them, so the president's name is Riley and then Taylor is the fiance. I was like, we need to give her name because you can't just keep keep being like, so the president and I. The president. Who is this? Okay, great. Riley. No, fiance is who? Taylor. Taylor. Okay. So Riley and Taylor were quite toxic together. And from what I knew about Taylor, Taylor was, they both played into each other's toxicity. I'll say that. They were both very kind of toxic in the same direction at this time. They would pick fights with each other and they would make them kind of public. So we're all hanging out with this gay group

and they would be going through something and you could tell. And then Taylor wouldn't come to a lot of the meetings. So her and Riley were together when I met them, but then Riley revealed to me that they were not super secure in the way that I had originally assumed. And at, at, that point, we had done a capture the flag game activity. And I think they were still technically engaged at this point, but I do remember being put in jail in the game. And Riley almost intentionally got put in jail so that they would be with me in there. And the fiance is just kind of running around, like side-eyeing us the whole time. So I feel like I kind of got forced into a situation where I was like, I'm still talking to a girl back home and still figuring my stuff

out. I don't want to be put in the middle of your relationship. No. So I might be like used to like stir up some jealousy. Exactly. Yes. So that was kind of the vibe I was getting. And then of course after we had hung out, I was on an off period with my girlfriend at the time. She was like, we have to promise not to get back together with our exes. Because I guess that was also an off. period for her. And I was like, I won't if you won't, you know, just as a little joke. So we're kind of both off and on in this little in between place in our relationships. We weren't super close friends. It got bromantic, like it moved up from Platonic fairly quickly with her, because right after that meeting and the capture the flag moment, Taylor got a job outside of town. So she was about an hour

and a half out of town. And Riley and I started hanging out a lot and feelings developed very quickly as they did with the first girl. But I almost felt more into the connection with Riley than I did the first girl. And it felt like something clicked for me. And I was like, oh, this is how it's supposed to feel. Like maybe I'm feeling this a little more strongly. Like something will happen and you'd be like, oh, this is how, like, just like I was in love. Yeah, but you didn't realize. No, you weren't. No.

I very much was not. So, I mean, we could definitely call it cheating on my end because I was not very honest and forthcoming about hanging out with this new person and feelings developing so quickly. So I will totally own that. And it was just a really messy time. Because, again, I'm still going to school and still figuring out my. relationship with God. And contact between me and Taylor, the fiancé, was very, very minimal. So we were not friends. We didn't really talk. Again, she didn't really come to the queer events

that we had every week. So all I knew about her was what I was being told from Riley. And that's very important. So one thing that Riley really loved to do is take girls on drives at night. and she would take me for drives around the outskirts of Rexburg because it's just desert everywhere. And there was one night, like being with her felt really chaotic, but in a very fun way. She seemed like someone who crazy things just happened to all the time, and she was always on the ride of her life,

and you wanted to be a part of it. Like she made it seem like... I don't know what every day is going to be. That's so fun. Yes. And now that would terrify. Like I would run the other way immediately. Red flag.

Yeah, yeah. But at the time, I'm like, excitement. You know, this is all new to me. I want to lean into being gay. I think I'm going to leave the church. So I'm slowly leaning toward making some big changes in my life. When you say she liked to take girls on drives, did you know that at the time that it was plural girls?

No. Or was it like a, okay, got it. I did not know. That is something that will come. later, but she definitely had a playbook. I'll say that. So there was one night, actually, where we went on a drive and we spun off the road a little bit.

I guess it was wet, and we got stuck in some farmers' crops in the middle of a field. And I had to call my very Mormon friends, because they were the only ones with a truck to come get us out. And I remember she turned to me, she's so dramatic. She turned to me, and she was like, are you ready for everyone to know about us? And I was like, what does that mean? Like, we had you guys like, you know, had you done anything yet? We had kissed already.

So I guess the first time that we kissed, we were just hanging out around people in the group. And she pulled me around a corner and kissed me. So it was very private, a very quick moment. And that's when I was like, okay, I need to cut things off with that person back home that I was seeing. I need to cut things off with her. And clearly this girl is ready to move forward with me. So maybe let's see what's there. And so that's why we were going on the drives together and spending so much time.

And things really blew up with the girl back home because she had become kind of friends with my roommates. And she was texting all of them because she could sense something was up. So I was feeling pressure from not communicating with her and the guilt. So that kind of made me lean in way more to things with Riley because I'm like, well, if I'm going to act this way, it better be for something. You know, I better make it worth it. Yeah. I think everybody just collectively nodded their heads. Yeah.

It seems kind of college-can-in event. Yes, I fear. It was all just a part of the journey, unfortunately. So yes, we're hanging out. We're going on drives late at night. I'm feeling like we're getting way closer. Within the first six days, she tells me that she loves me. Oh, okay.

And in that moment, I remember feeling like I did not feel the same because it had been less than a week. But I did say it back just because, you know, people pleasing and maybe I did love her. And you feel awkward if you don't say it. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So I did say it back. I didn't really mean it at the time, but it is what it is.

So yeah, I knew that it was moving very, very quickly. But again, I felt like all of these things that were. happening, it would make it worth it because we'd be together. You know, I'm hopeful, sue me. I have a hopeful big heart that wants to love people, you know? Totally. That's most of us. We get that. And also it feels good when someone tells you they love you, even if it's love bombing, you're like, oh my God, she's obsessed with me. Like, she couldn't even keep it in. Absolutely. Yeah, I'm like, of course you would love me after six days. Like, yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. You have good taste.

Exactly. Yes. So the chaos really comes in when Riley gets evicted from her apartment this summer. So all of this is happening over a summer. I want to say it was end of July, beginning of August, when all of this is going on, the drives, the kissing, the I love you. It's progressing very quickly. And Riley had a habit of making very snap decisions that were not financially sound as well. So she just adopted two more dogs. She already had a dog. So she has three dogs in an apartment. And it is no exaggeration to say that there were, there was shit and piss everywhere all over the floor of this apartment. It was cruel, honestly, and it was hard to watch. But I had just met this girl. I'm not her girlfriend.

So am I supposed to step in and do wifie things? But you just want to help, you know? So I did help clean her apartment a few times. And I didn't know this until later, but Taylor was also coming back into. town and doing laundry for her and cleaning the apartment and she wasn't telling me obviously because we're not together technically but there's a lot of flip-flopping throughout the story and taylor is still living outside of town but she's coming back every single weekend because she still has friends in town that go to school and she's using that time to also

hang out with riley so they're pretty much hanging out every weekend as well while she's starting this new relationship with me. And I'm thinking they've broken things off for good and they're on good enough terms that this is cool with everyone. Because we were around each other a few times and nothing happened. Like the three of us were around each other with the other people from the queer group. And it was chill. So I just assumed, you know.

So she gets evicted from her apartment because she fell behind on rent and because she trashed the place. She used to throw knives into the wall, too. Like, it was a game she made. She would hand someone to butcher knife when they came into her apartment and they would throw it like above her hallway and try to stick it into the wall. That's not dangerous at all? Yeah, renting.

Capital R renting. There goes your security deposit. That's so funny. But that's just some of the reckless stuff that she would do and she'd encourage other people to do it. She was crazy. She was fun. She was living really free, you know. And she's not still in school.

She's older or is she still in school? So that is actually really important. I'm glad you asked me that. She got expelled from BYU for being gay. Yeah. I mean, she's pretty obviously gay. It seems like she's not hiding it. So.

Blow in my mind. Yeah. Okay. So by that point, she's evicted and no school. And she didn't have her job by that point. And Taylor had moved out. Taylor did have a job. So no more apartment for her.

her and during this summer she tells me that she's staying in a tent at the local park. She has a car as well. Yeah. She tells me she's staying in a tent. Like that's where she's living. And I should also mention with the two other dogs, all of her dogs ended up going to one of our friends. She had to give them away because she obviously couldn't take care of them. Right. So all three of them were given to three separate people in our group because we were like, somebody needs to take these dogs and take care of them. And they're living happy, healthy lives now. Very convenient timing that when her fiancee, ex-fiance,

moved out, all of a sudden she didn't pay rent anymore. Exactly. Seems to be a trend in her life. But I digress. So she tells me she's living in a tent and also tells me that she's going back and forth between Taylor's new place and Rexburg. I realize now in retrospect that she's, probably was just staying with Taylor the whole time because I wasn't checking up on anything.

I wasn't fact checking because I had no reason in my mind to not trust her at that point. And I was thinking, you know, this girl loves me. Again, has told me she loves me. And she's texting me telling me she loves me. And she's also saying, I'm over at Taylor's, but it's not because I want to be. So something she continues to do throughout our relationship is says that she's manipulated into being with Taylor by Taylor. And she's painting this picture that Taylor is saying some magic words to keep her coming back, even though she really wants to be with me. That's the story she's giving me.

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That's C-O-Y-U-C-H-I dot com slash detectives. Some exclusions apply. She makes it clear that she's actually going to choose Taylor. And this turnaround is within a couple of weeks, mind you. this is not even that much time has passed. Still the summer. And she tells me she's going to pick Taylor, but she doesn't want to. And I'm like, don't say that.

If you're going to choose her, just choose her, go on with your life, we'll just call this what it was. Right. And at that point, I was like, okay, you do your thing.

You be with Taylor. I don't need to see you in town anymore. You guys can just be together. And then Riley comes back. And Riley has a problem with boundaries. So I, had, like I said, already told her if you're going to choose this other girl, stick with it. And we were not talking. But then she started texting me, Riley did, and said, I'm in your room where are you at?

Because in Rexburg, nobody locked their doors because it was a relatively safe town. Not when she was there, though. And she would just walk in to my house and sit on my bed. Oh. I think I was in the complex as gym at the time. And I was like, you're in my room. What do you mean? And I go down to my apartment and sure enough, was in my apartment and she tells me that she has C-O-P-D. This girl is maybe 22 or 23 at the time. Oh. And that she has a year to live. Wait, what C-O-P-D? I'm just going to let you. It's like a lung disease. Yeah, it's like a, if you think of like people that smoke a lot and they have the, it's the, what is it called chronic, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease? It's like cigarette smoke and air pollution is basically those are like the main causes.

Dr. Fultz over here. Okay. So a year to live. Mm-hmm. And the first thing I said to her, I should have just trusted my gut. Everybody says that. But my first initial reaction was,

why don't you talk to your girlfriend about that? Because that's who you're with, is it not? Yeah. Yeah. Why are you sitting on my bed? I was like, you chose to not be with me. Why, you know, I'm sorry that you only have a year to live, but also I'm not your girlfriend.

So did you believe her, like that she actually was that sick? You did. Okay. I did. And when I told my friends about it. Why would someone lie about that? Right. Like, and again, I have no reason to not trust you at this point.

You haven't blatantly done anything to break my trust that I know of. I just thought it was maybe a messy little summer that we were having. And then she comes back with this. And I'm like, okay. So I tell my friends that she has COPD and they give me the biggest side eye. ever. They're like, girl, there's no way that she's lying. And I would rather err on the side of believing someone when they're telling me that than to be someone that's like, you're not actually dying and then be wrong. You know what I'm saying? What kind of asshole are you? Right. And again,

that's manipulation. I was about to say that's a manipulation tactic because they know how are you supposed you're an asshole if you just say, no, uh-huh. Exactly. So I was kind of backed into a corner with that one. And I was just trying to be supportive because, again, I just want to be there for people. This world has enough evil in it. I just want to be kind when I can. So this was around Thanksgiving of that year. So this summer was kind of like she flip-flop. She went back to the ex-fiance.

They're back together. And as far as I know, she's still with Taylor, whatever. We reconnected around Thanksgiving break. So she still had one dog at this point in time. and she, I realize now that she just needed somebody to take care of him when she went back home to Colorado, but she kind of left him with me and all of my friends hated this dog. It was a pug. I don't know how you guys feel about pugs, but my friends hated this dog.

Pugs, it's not their fault that they can't breathe. It's not. They can't breathe. And they're really loud about it. No, I mean, I don't hate them, but I am like, dang, you guys can't breathe. Yeah. It's very unfortunate. They're like, I'm like, are you guys okay?

Yes, it's scary. I've been a, I've dog sat a puck before and I was like, I can't look away. Exactly. For babies. Okay, so you're watching this little smushy dog. Yes. So I'm taking, I'm carting this pug around. She kind of puts this dog on me while she goes home.

And she, she kind of presents it as like, I'm done with Taylor. I really actually love you. and I really need somebody to watch this dog. So we're like... Oh my gosh. And I also want to say, you guys already know this, but like when you look back at some decisions that you made, you don't even understand how somebody talked you into it sometimes.

You're like, to me now would have said hell no. Yeah. But the me back then, clearly was feeling something different. And you have to honor that. It's so much easier said than done also when someone's coming to you and says, I'm sick and I was evicted and I'm in a toxic relationship and my poor baby, I don't want to take them on the plane because they can't, you know, what, you're not like, McKenzie, you said, what are you going to be the asshole? You could, you're, you almost volunteer to help. Yeah. So yeah, Thanksgiving is when we reconnect. The dog thing happens. And I was getting text messages still that were like, I'm so in love with you. Like she really kicked it into high gear after Thanksgiving because she had me on the whole. hook at that point. And we became official December of that year. So that next month, maybe a couple weeks later, we became official. And everyone in our community knew her and I were together.

We were very public. And it was great. It was great. We dated from December to March. So this is December of 2019 to March of 2020. Significant for many reasons. Before we get into March of 2020, where are you in terms of school and being out and comfort around religion at this point? Oh, that's a great question. So by that point, I had already decided that I was leaving the church. There was actually a moment that I had where I was kind of testing God in a way, which they definitely tell you not to do for a reason. And I had drank with some of my friends the night before, which was a big no-no.

It was a Saturday night. And the next day at church, I was like, you know, if I feel really guilty, if the spirit tells me that that was a bad thing to do, then I will repent and I will lean into this. I'll like really be a member again. And I go to church and I felt absolutely no guilt at all. I felt perfectly fine. And it was a really good moment for me because it wasn't super significant in the way that I felt anything big. But I was just like, okay, this is my answer. And I'm going to move forward with that. And it gave me a lot of peace, actually. So that was really awesome. And that was kind of where I was at with my spiritual journey at that time. I had made up my mind I was going to leave. And with the BYU schools, it's really hard to transfer out of them before you've gotten some kind of degree, associates or bachelors,

because a lot of the classes they have are not recognized by other universities. Yes. Yes. Oh no. And that really sucks. So the best way for anybody listening as well, the best way, if you are stuck in that situation, to get out is to get your associates and then transfer with your associates somewhere else. Oh. Because another university will accept the associates and then you can just pick up and go from there. So hot tip. So that was my plan. But during that time with our relationship, I was fully focused on this relationship with Riley. And as far as I knew, Taylor was also from California. So when Taylor was not living an hour or so away from Rexburg, she was back home in California, and I would not hear anything about her or from her. So we never were in contact during any of these moments.

I will also say this is a little messy because that's just the nature of things. Sometimes when Riley and Taylor were first together, Taylor did cheat on her on Riley with another person from the queer group. that person comes back into the story as my roommate. Hey. Because we all met from the queer group. So the next semester we're like, you guys are cool. Let's live together.

So I'm dating Riley and my roommate has like kissed Taylor. Who is the ex-fiance of your girlfriend. Got it. Yes. I mean, it's a friend group, a young queer friend group. It's common. Yes. So there was definitely drama there, and Riley didn't really want me to be friends with that roommate,

but we really clicked, and I still love them down. But we were together from December to March, and things were so perfect. Like, we went to go visit her family pretty early on. I think it was in December. She actually took me home. And something that Riley would do is she would figure out what it was that, you really wanted or needed in a relationship, and she would give it to the next person and not to you. So, for example, with Taylor, she never took Taylor to meet her family, and they were together

for quite some time, and we're engaged off and on, mind you. And she immediately took me home to her family. And I know now that she probably did that as a way to, like, rub it in her face, you know? So she would do things like that intentionally. Was her family Mormon? Yes. Okay. Oh, okay. And she also, I was really blonde at the time. And she would tell me that her sisters were going to make fun of me.

Her sisters are like, I think there are maybe like five, six years older than us. And she was like, they might make fun of you because you're blonde. And I was like, what does that mean? Like why? So I'm over here preparing to like confront these sisters and be made fun of by them. and it ended up being really chill. Everybody was very nice, very sweet, very welcoming. They were fine with her being gay.

And we're sitting at the table and Riley had gotten up to do something. And I turned and I was like, you know, I was really nervous to meet you guys because Riley told me that you guys didn't like blonde girls. And her sister was like, Riley, why would you say that? That's a lie. That's not even true. And so that moment was really odd because I was like, why would you go out of your way to make me nervous to meet your family?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, that's what it was. She was trying to make you... Everything had to have like a touch of drama with it. You know, you couldn't just do anything normal with her. Everything had to be something big. A little bit more dramatic. Yes, exactly. Around that time, too, she was living with me and my roommates. And my roommates hated it because of how back and forth she had been with me over the summer. And because of how messy it had gotten, they were like, we don't feel good about. her living with us and I was such I was such an asshole about it I was like well she's going to live with us because she needs help right now and she doesn't have a place and doesn't have a job you know like I was really sticking up for her and my friends did not want that to happen but I digress she was living with us during that time so it's like March 2020 at this point the relationship has been going great March 2020 is really when the excitement comes in because there was, in the honor code, they changed the language around homosexuality. And what happened is at all the BYU schools, they changed it to say something like,

you can be queer and you can act on it within these boundaries. But having sex is still a no-no. And so a lot of students took that as, oh, I can have a. girlfriend and I can kiss my girlfriend and we can hold hands, but we just have to be chased. That was kind of the vibe that everybody got from it. And people started posting, yeah, and it was a really big deal. People started posting pictures of them kissing in front of the Brigham Young statue in Provo. And people were posting their relationships that they had been hiding because they were scared they were going to get kicked out of school. And it was a really big thing.

And BYU, Idaho is much smaller than BYU Provo. Like, we didn't even have a sports team at all. Like, nothing, very, very, very tiny. But people there were also like, okay, I guess I can be gay now, you know? And the church, I want to say it was within the week, sent everyone an email and was like, hey, by the way, you still can't be gay. You can't kiss. You can't act on it at all.

So they completely backtracked. And it really upset a lot of people. and it started this protest at all BYU schools where the students were like, why would you make it sneaky like that? Because now we've just exposed ourselves and now we don't know if we're going to get kicked out of school because you guys have screenshots. I wonder if that's, was the intention? Do you think that would have been like something they wanted?

People would come out so they could then. It would not surprise me in the slightest. Or they didn't realize, maybe they didn't realize how many people were gay. or paid attention to the honor code in that way. Like maybe they just thought we weren't paying attention enough. But when you're in that position, like you're kind of a minority at the school and you're trying to stay undercover,

that's something you're going to pay attention to, you know? Of course. And just to kind of reiterate the situation with being gay and the honor code, they would come after you for anything that you do. So me and Riley also had to be very character. with posting our relationship. We would post things together, but we had to be like sneaky about it, like something that could leave something open to the imagination, kind of.

Not like outright saying, this is my girlfriend. Yes. And that also makes it so easy to cheat because if you don't post them on social media, that's a way to be private about it, but she has such a good excuse to be like, obviously I can't post you. Uh-huh. Just a thought. Yeah, no, you're right on track. All right.

Keep on. Yes. So they changed the language in the honor code, and we start these protests. So her being the president of this queer club, I was vice president, too. And so me and Riley had coordinated protests. And it started out with maybe eight or nine of us standing in front of campus with our little signs. And then we started spreading the word on Twitter. and people started retweeting it like crazy.

Well, I say like crazy, but back then it was a lot. It was really an amazing thing to be a part of, truly. Like, I still feel so lucky and blessed to be a part of it. It ended up being, I think, 300 plus people that joined us because there's a really big, it sounds like an oxymoron a bit, but a progressive Mormon community in Utah. Like a lot of mothers of queer students or kids are like, this is not right.

I still want to follow God. but I think that God also loves his gay children. So we need to make room for them. Yeah, we have listeners that, and I know we'll say it in the intro and whatnot, but we're not obviously making blanket statements about every single Mormon or every single religious person. So it's nice that you're like, part of your story is the group of people in the church. Yeah.

Like, no, this can change. Yes. And they were crucial because they really build the bridge between the church and anyone who feels victimized by the church. They are the last line of defense. And I think they're really important. Although the church is not a part of my life anymore actively, I do still really honor and appreciate the work that they do and did for us

because we really couldn't have done it without them. So yeah, that was really amazing and special. So we had big speakers and we were playing, You Need to Calm Down by Taylor Swift, and we were all putting together playlists, and we were dancing in the streets. And we didn't really expect anything to change per se, but we just wanted the campus to know that we were there and that there were so many of us that still wanted to be a part of the church or the school or the community in some way. And you're going to recognize us and you're going to see that we are here and we're not going away.

So that was basically the idea behind it because we figured the church was never going to change its stance on gay people. And that was a big misconception about the protests. People were like, why would you even go to BYU if you're gay? Why would you even be here? Because it's cheap. Because it's easy. Or, God forbid, someone wants to try to be a part of the church but can't deny themselves for the rest of their lives like me. So there's definitely a lot of nuance there.

But yes, around March of 2020 is when the protests happened. And Riley was also trying to spearhead a lot of this. So Riley had a habit of taking charge. which I really appreciated because she had been in a position of power in the queer group and had been around in town longer than I have and knew more people than I did. So I just kind of let her take the reins on that. And she had connections with people like these mothers of queer kids. She was connected with all those little groups.

And that was really crucial to getting more people at the protests and later starting a GoFundMe because we wanted to open a queer resource center. in Rexburg. So it was not going to be affiliated with the IU, Idaho for obvious reasons, but we wanted to have our queer meetings there every week. We wanted to have a gender-affirming closet, and we wanted to provide therapy for people. And we really needed the funds, and we needed people in the community to come together for us. Yeah. So we announced that we were going to open the center. I came up with the name. I called it Marsha's Place for Marsha P. Johnson, because I thought That was very special and cute.

Things were really looking up at that point. You know, we started the GoFundMe and pretty quickly we got about $7,000 within the first week or so. And we had to keep raising our goal on there because we were collecting money so fast. Like people really, really wanted to be a part of this. The tragic thing is that the lockdown happened the day after our third protest, our biggest one. So we still wanted to move forward with the plans. for the center because that was still a really big goal of ours.

So we kind of had to go underground a little during that time. And something that was happening is Riley was getting a lot of recognition. And Riley was being really cagey about me or the other president meeting with people and having interviews. And she was setting up interviews with the local newspaper and was talking to reporters and photographers and videographers, but was not including the rest of us in that plan. And we had kind of created a little council, again, very Mormon-coted, but we had created a little council of gay people who really wanted to make something happen. And I can't remember what I was in charge of,

but everybody had their job. But she very much was not filling us in on a lot of that. And then, like I said, Riley is still living with me at this time. But things are really starting. to go to her head after these protests because she gained a lot of followers on Twitter, a lot of followers on Instagram, and she was kind of posturing herself as the BYU Idaho person, like the BYU Idaho queer person, because she had also spearheaded protests in the past against the honor code before she got expelled. So she had already kind of made a name for herself, whatever. During that time, Taylor comes back from California and comes back into town. And Riley is living with me. I'm getting ready to graduate with my associates. March. Lockdown. Taylor

moves back into town. Just reiterating because it's about to get confusing again. Okay. Okay. I got my notepad out. Taylor starts dating my roommate. The one that she had hooked up with when she was To engage to Riley. Okay. And Riley and I are dating. So as I'm roommates with this girl, we are both dating exes. Oh. And like I said, Riley's living with me, so there's, you know, they're crossing paths in our apartment.

So we're playing with fire, all of us. Like, you know, this is not a clean cut situation by any means. And she's gaining recognition, so she's getting cocky, too. And they start posting TikToks together. So Taylor. Riley? Yes. The exes.

Okay. While we're both in very clear relationships with these people, like the people in our community know that we are official, both of these couples. Taylor gained a following later on because she is a dancer and she's really good at dancing. And I think she got like 20,000 followers or something. But before that, I think she was only at 10K at this point. Either way, she's got a bit of clout online, and Riley loves that. So they start posting videos together and making jokes about how coronavirus tore them apart and then brought them back together.

And then Riley's telling me that, again, if somebody came to me and acted like this in a relationship now, I'd be like, pack your bags, you're gone. But at the time, she was telling me, well, I'm being manipulated into this relationship again. and she wants us to get back together and it's only a joke. Like the videos are just a joke. I just want you to know I'm still with you. I still love you. By the time that her birthday,

that Riley's birthday comes around in early April, they are together. Oh! What do you mean? How did that happen? Yeah. My roommate comes to me one day and shows me a TikTok that they had made together

and was like, have you seen this? And it was so, guys, It was so cringy. It was so bad. I can't even believe I let that hurt my feelings for a second thinking about it now. But it was Taylor pushing Riley against a wall by her neck or something and them like getting really close together. It was so gross. Wait.

And is your roommate like what the heck is going on? Yeah. My roommate was completely blindsided by it. But Riley had already told me that they were going to make some TikToks together. I just had not seen them yet. but my roommate comes to me and is like, have you seen this? And I said, no, that's a little weird. Why are they doing that?

And then they both Riley and Taylor reveal to me and my roommate that they are in fact going to get together again. So they did they like sit you down and we're like, hey, we have something to tell you. Not together. But they definitely discussed it with each other, definitely after cheating as well. They discussed it with each other and then had separate conversations with us. So where's Riley going to live now? I keep going. Sorry, I have a lot. No, that's a great question.

So Taylor has now moved back for another semester of school. So that is where Riley goes. Also, around her birthday, she still was being a little unclear with me about her and Taylor being official. And she was telling me in private. So her birthday is April 5th. So this is very, very early in April. She tells me that I'm not allowed to post anything publicly for her birthday

or acknowledge her in any way on her birthday. And I know now it's because she didn't want Taylor to see anything and see that we were still in contact or still flirty with each other. So by her birthday, she's very clear that her and Taylor are together. But right before that, she's like, you can't post anything with me. I don't even think I'm going to spend my birthday with you. She spent her birthday with Taylor and this other best friend that she had who also had feelings for her. And she had said to me, I know she has feelings for me, but it's like kind of sad.

Like she would talk down on this girl who really wanted to be her friend and was also discovering her sexuality. So she would catch people when they're like vulnerable and figuring things out about themselves because she was this cool person who was so comfortable. and her sexuality, so you were drawn to it in a way. And I've also noticed she really loves to have three people at all times. She likes to have a girlfriend, someone on the side, and then a friend that she's kind of flirty with. She knows she could have. Yes. So yeah, that was kind of the deal. Like she was hanging out with the ex and this friend for her birthday instead of me. And I remember I had posted something on Twitter that was like, happy birthday. Like I did it anyway. And she retweeted everyone but me. And then when I brought it up, because I went through, I was like, I'm going to see

if I'm the only person and I was. And when I confronted her about it, she made me feel so dumb and silly. And I felt dumb and silly because I'm a 20 year old woman over here like, why do you not retweet me? You know, like she puts you in this position where you kind of are having to beg. And that was very not cool. And then she talked to another friend of ours and said that I didn't do anything for her birthday and was complaining about how bad of a person I was. Yeah. at the same time. So I was like, okay, cool, cool. And I told her, I was like, I would love to do something for your birthday, but you're not hanging out with me right now. So I spent her birthday feeling really guilty and it was just not a fun time. And she was out with her girl, with her ex-girlfriend and this other girl having a great time. She told you she was getting back with her ex-girlfriend and you were feeling guilty. Like, she really knew how she really had a way situation. Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, all of those pieces are are in place now. So Riley and Taylor are back together. Again, I move into my own apartment because I have graduated. I have my associates. I have a full-time job in town.

And when I was moving into my apartment, somehow, somehow, Riley convinced me to let her stay on my couch because she needed a place to live. I don't remember right now where Taylor was at the moment. I think she had a place, but I think she had roommates that would tell on her for being gay. So Riley was like, I can stay with you, right? And she had a way of making me say yes. So I... Well, the reason she can't stay with her girlfriend is because some people in the apartment

are going to be homophobic about it. That's going to make you feel like, oh, I feel bad for you. Exactly. And I'm thinking, you know, things are platonic between us again. Like obviously you really burned me and hurt my feelings, but I'm still a kind person and I don't want to leave you out in the cold. So, yes, you can stay on my couch, but there have to be boundaries, you know. That was kind of the premise of it.

While this is happening to, so this is leading into summer of 2020, Marsha's place, we're still collecting money for it, and we got to $10,000. We reached our goal of that. Wow. We were really getting a lot of momentum. We were getting everything together. It was really exciting. It's so cool.

Yeah, it was really cool to be a part of. We had gotten the $10,000 and Riley signed the lease for Marcia's, and we were going to launch it in January of 2021. That was supposed to be the opening date. And it's right now summer of 2020. So we've got some months before we're supposed to open that. You're like bracing yourself. So yeah, we got the money pretty quickly.

The money actually would go to my account first because she did not have a card of her own and she would use my debit card. And then once she got her own debit card, I just transferred all of the money. As soon as it would hit my account, I'd send it straight to her. And then we eventually got it to go straight to her without me involved at all. So in theory, $10,000 has been sent her way to. to sign the lease, pay the rent, keep the water on, like all of that for Marsha's place. Oh my gosh. Literally. Can you, $10,000, first of all, that's a lot of money.

I don't trust where that's going. Does everybody have their pens and paper out? Because I've had to take notes in this story. And next week it gets even more jumbly. And that's the way it goes with some of these. Some of these just get so frustrating and you start to wonder like from the beginning of the story, I'm going, okay, is this financial? Is this just someone who's? Yeah, is it financial? Is it cheating? What is it? And a lot of times as soon as they say something like, oh, I sent the money for this or we had a lease and I'm like, oh, no. But we'll hear the rest of it next week. But man. Yes. We will do a thorough dogfish debrief at the end of part two. So if you have thoughts, questions. comments, things you want us to discuss, you can comment them on socials. We are everywhere at Dating Detectives Podcast or some of the platforms like Spotify has a comment section. So you can leave questions, comments there or our favorite place to discuss, Patreon, of course. Yes. And also,

if you leave comments on the Spotify or anywhere, like wherever you can give us a five-star review, we would greatly appreciate that. Yeah, right. Your comments and those stars, really help us to grow as a platform and as a show. So we really appreciate when you guys do that. It means a lot to us. And if you want to join the Patreon, we'll put the link in the show notes. It's just $5 a month for bonus episodes. And then the $9 is the girlfriend experience. All you can listen, no ads. No ads. Yeah. So join us there. And if you have a story you want to submit to us, please email us, investigate at the Dating Detectives Podcasts. Courtney is a great guest and this is a wild story.

So come back on Monday. We need to process this together. And as always, trust your FIFTUATION.