The Dating Detectives - The Group Chat

Episode Date: July 22, 2024

Holly was a pre med student at UC Berkley when she met fellow student, Leo, on Hinge. Everything was going great, until she got added to the group chat... Click here to join our Patreon! For only $5 a month you will get 2 extra episodes a month, monthly virtual live events, and access to our community page! If you've been dogfished and want to share your story on the show, email [e-mail] or contact us through our website using this link Earn points by paying rent right now when you go to join bilt.com/TDD This episode of The Dating Detectives is sponsored by Prose. Take your FREE in- depth hair consultation and get 50% off your first subscription order by going to prose.com/tdd This episode is sponsored by Miracle Made. Get your incredible, temperature maintaining, silver infused sheets for 40% off, PLUS a free three piece towel set, by going to trymiracle.com/TDD and using code TDD at checkout. This episode of The Dating Detectives is sponsored by DeleteMe. Get 20% off your DeleteMe plan when you go to join deleteme.com/TDD and use promo code TDD at checkout! ***The following Program contains names, places and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following Program is provided for entertainment purposes only and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 for support See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following program contains names, places, and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only, and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-723 for support. Happy Monday, happy Monday. Hey, everybody.

Hi, Hannah. We are excited for this episode because it's a really great guest. Well, I shouldn't, I'm on every single episode. I'm like, it's a really great guest and a really great story. Because it always is. What do you, I mean, what do you want us to say? What do you want us to say? This one's stupid this week.

This episode's dumb. Like, it's always just good, right here? I think they get better and better because I like to think we get better. Oh, as I was about to say, we get better and better. I just drop my microphone. So knock on wood there. Let's leave that in. That's real.

Like this is real life, people. I'm excited for you guys to meet our guest. And when you hear the story, y'all, it's a ride. It's a doozy. Yeah. So many times I was like, no way, but that's always. And I know you guys love these stories. We do have a little bit of news.

We're taking only one week off for a little summer break. because we all need a break and that's important. So next week we're not airing a new episode, but we are going to air a rerun of one of another, another favorite, another great episode. You know how it is. Yeah, there's an episode that was wildly popular that a lot of people were blown away by.

So we're going to replay it and thank you guys for your support and also giving us the time to like, what are you all doing for summer break? Like summer is almost like school starts on August 12th for us. And so summer's almost over And so we're like We gotta take at least a break At least one week

I'll take a week off Yeah But let us know If you do want a new episode next week We will be dropping one on the Patreon Which is just $5 a month For a little bit more dating detectives And it's really nice there

Yes And thank you to all of our Patreoners Who are already subscribed And let's get into it, shall we? Let's bring our guest on And wait to you guys hear this So come follow along with us Okay

Hey, Polly, take us on your journey. All right. Well, story starts January 2021. So we're like middle of COVID. I'm in college. So I'm at UC Berkeley. And obviously, at this time, you're not going to bars or anything or like not, there's not a good way to meet people.

So dating apps. Well, even now. Yeah, no, literally. That's the best way. You don't have to deal with it until you're ready. So dating apps. And I went on hinge because I think I was looking for more of a serious relationship. But I'm also somebody like I'm very sexual, you know, like hookups are fine.

I don't know. I was like ready for anything. But definitely looking for like more of a relationship kind of thing. Scrolling. See a guy with super, super nice abs and a really cute dog. Oh, the dog. My husband got me with his freaking dog and I didn't even like dogs. It's the dog. It's the dog. I'm like, animals are a good sign. So, you know, like swipe right. And I don't know how long it took us to start talking, but we started chatting slowly and like asking each other questions about each other. And I was doing premed stuff. And he was in med school at UC Berkeley. And so the chat was pretty good. And he seemed like a really, really cool person. And so we planned a date.

How long were you talking before you planned your first date? Just a few days. Okay. So we planned a date and for this date I ordered food from the Thai food place across the street for my apartment. So I went across the street, I ordered the food, got the food, brought it back. And then he came over and we're eating, chatting. And honestly, you know, like in a date when things sort of have to, like, get going or

like maybe it's awkward at first, that didn't really happen. We got along like a house on fire, you know what I'm saying? Like, we didn't really have to try. And so what I learned about him from our first date was he told me that he had done his undergrad at Princeton. He was at UC Berkeley for medical school. And, you know, as someone that was pre-med at the time, I was like, oh, my God, that's awesome. We're going to have a lot to talk about, but also that's really attractive because he's like very smart. Yeah, of course.

And yeah, and hot. Listen, hot helps, but hot and smart, hello. Yes, exactly. And so I also found out he said he was 23. At that time, I was 19. And he was just like wonderful to talk to. We were really just chatting it up, learning a lot about each other. But my apartment, we were sort of in the common area.

So eventually I was like, it had been maybe like an hour and a half or something. And I was like, I'm going to let my roommates live in the apartment. Why don't we go over to my room? And so we just kept talking on my bed and the conversation was really flowing. So, I mean, at that point, we probably talked for like two and a half hours. So now we're sort of like getting deeper. And around that time, we're all of like the Black Lives Matter protests and everything. and he was actually black.

And so I asked him, I said, have you had any experience personally with racism? And he was like, yes, I have. So he told me this story about how he was dating this girl. And she took him to her grandparents' house to meet all of her family and her parents and everything. and after the dinner and everything, apparently a necklace or something had gone missing. And so they had accused him of taking it and basically called the police

and the police searched where he was living and they didn't find anything. But he explained that he had said over and over that he hadn't done anything, but she hadn't really trusted him. And so from that, he expressed how, important trust is for him, which is also why he doesn't like people going through his phone.

It's just uncomfortable for him. And to have a girlfriend that wants to go through your phone is a red flag for him. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. Sure. Yeah. So he explained all of that. And we also got into a deep conversation about my first sort of relationship that had ended that August and how I really, really love this guy. But I had felt sort of, like especially during COVID, like a burden. Later I learned that he had only stayed with me because my dad had gotten cancer. And so he felt bad for me. And so essentially I was doing the whole relationship and I was coming from a place of I want to feel loved.

And so already like connecting with this guy like this and, you know, like being able to share that with him, like we were actually getting pretty deep and meaningful. Yeah. And so, you know, like after a few hours of talking, we were like, Okay, so I think you're awesome. He's like, I think you're totally amazing. It's like, okay, so we're gonna do a second date. And he was like, absolutely. And then we kiss. And then dot, dot, dot, we're in my bed. We're kissing. Best sex of my life. Okay. Oh, good for you. Okay. And so I was like, this is great. And I'm like, I told you, I'm a very sexual person. That's important to me. It's not like a really big deal to me to have sex on the first date. I was sort of like whatever happens, happens, and great. And it was awesome, and it was a great date, and it was great sex.

And then I invited him to sleep over, but he said, I have to get back to the dog. Got to let the dog out. It's like, fair enough. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. And so he goes back home. A few days later, second date.

And before the second date, we're texting a lot, right? but he's in med school. So he expresses this to me, he's like, up front, I'm super, super busy. And my mom's a doctor, and I understand the med school thing and just being so busy. And so I was like, I totally get that. Don't worry about it. And this actually works out really well because I'm also super busy with school. And so I think that, like, that is completely fun.

So second day, he picks up burgers. brings the food over to my place. And I just want to say, I was sort of expecting him to offer to pay for part of the Thai food, like the first time or like split it. It's like I had picked it up, but he didn't, which is like, neither here nor there. Like, I'm a feminist. That's fine. But, you know, like I was expecting to go. So it would have been nice if he kind of did the wallet pool or something. Yeah. And given you a chance to say, no, no, I got it. Yeah, exactly. But he didn't do any of that. But like, he ended up picking up the food the next time. Okay. So that's fair.

Yeah. It was whatever. And so same, you know, we're eating at the tabletop. My best friend comes out and she's talking to him. He offers her like some fries and like they, they're like chatting for a little bit, which makes me happy because she is like my judge of character. And so her liking him is very important. Yeah, totally. The best friend, you got to get best friend approval 100% of the time. Exactly. And so they were chatting for a bit, which was, it was great to me. And also because, like, she was also pre-med. And so we all had a bunch to talk about. And that was really great. And again, this date is awesome. And it's just going super, super well. So he went to Princeton. And so did my dad. Very prestigious. Okay. Yeah. So, like, for his undergrad. And my dad went to Princeton also for his undergrad. And so there's like sort of, yeah. And so there's colleges at Princeton that like you're a part of. And my dad's been talking about Princeton my whole life. And so I was like, my dad was part of this college.

What college were you in? And he's like, oh, hold on one second. I need to text my friend really quick. No, shut up, shut up. And so I'm like, okay. And then I'm like, are you looking up the colleges in Princeton? Like, LOL, just jokingly. And he's like, no, no, no, no.

I'm just texting my friend one second. And so he's on his phone. And I like try to look over and he's like, and then he puts the phone down. He's like, I was in this college. I was like, oh, I don't know that one. I don't really know the colleges other than what my dad was in. But cool. That's awesome.

I was just going to see if you're in the same one. That was sort of weird. But I have no reason not to believe him. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So kind of like was a little seed that was planted, but you were like, I'm not watering that. It's all given the benefit of the doubt again.

Okay. Exactly, exactly. And he had set the bar. First state, like, trust is super important. So, like, I'm trusting. I'm trusting. I'm trusting. Like, I'm good. So. And if it's important for him that you trust him, then it's probably, then he's probably someone that you can trust too. So, okay. Exactly. Exactly. And so this state also goes sort of like this first one. We talk a ton and like we get on super well and it's super easy. We have great sex. He has to go home, back to the dog again to let the dog out. And I'm like, oh my gosh, next time, bring the dog over here. And then you can stay over and we can let the dog out here. And he's like, that's a great idea. So texting, chatting after this date, same kind of thing, planning the next date. So date three, he brings the dog over.

And the dog is so freaking cute. Oh, my God. I love that dog. And I mean, like, the guy's name is Leo. Leo's giving me, like, all of these affirmations and, like, telling me how beautiful I am and, like, how smart. And really giving me what I didn't really get in, like, my last relationship. Like, I needed that affirmation and, like, that attention. Yep.

And the attentiveness. And I needed to feel appreciated. So that was awesome. I think I'm pretty sure that date three, he did. did end up going home, even though I tried to convince him to stay. I was like, the dog's here. Like, you should just say, and he's like, no, I have to get up like really, really early to go to the hospital. I'm like, sorry. But I'm going to go home tonight. So I was like, dang, well, that sucks. But okay. So I think this is probably two weeks in. So like the second weekend, I have plans with my

friends. Like, this is all whirlwind. I got to tell you the vans, like, it all happened very quickly. Listen, we're here for it, Holly. Do your thing, girl. And so this second weekend, we have all of my friends over and we're all hanging out. And Leo comes over too. And so he gets to meet all of my friends. And he also brings the dog. And it was just wonderful.

Like he's super, super personable, which I love. And I love how he was very confident talking to my friends. And they all really got along super well with him. And actually that time when he came over with the dog and we were all hanging out, he was like, well, I got to take out the dog to the grassy area to go pee. And I was like, okay, let's go take him out. And so we're like sort of out in this like little grassy area by my apartment. And it's raining.

And like the dog is sniffing around. And it's sort of like that movie moment where you just look over at each other. And it's like singing in the rain moment. This sounds like a rom-com. Yes. We like kissed in the rain. Little moments like that are they those are the ones you're just like you can't let go Oh, like you need a little bit.

It's like when we have kids, I'm going to tell my kids about this moment. You know, it's like, you know, it's that stuff that you're like, I'm literally in a movie right now. This is literally a love story. We're so freaking cute. This is awesome. Another thing that had happened during that Friends thing, when all my friends were over and he was there, was he kept getting on his phone,

and I saw that he was texting this girl, and I looked at his phone and it said, Izzy. And I was like, oh, like, who's that? And he was like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry. Like, I'm dealing with all this drama because this person is, like, having drama with this person because they did it.

He tells me, like, this really, really intricate story. I'm like, dang, like, that's crazy. I'm like, all right, cool. Like, you take care of that, you do you, whatever. So, like, that's a small thing, but it will come up later. Anyway. Oh, boy. So that time, that day, like, with the outside thing and when the friends were over,

I actually got him to stay over. Oh, okay. With the dog? With the dog. Okay. And this was on what date? This was on, this would have been date four, but date four was like with the friends. Okay, okay.

So the dog's there, and so he sleeps over. But then he wakes up at 5 a.m. 5 a.m. I know. I'm like, why are you awake? And he like, gets dressed. So it's 5 a.m. And he waits up on like, what are you doing?

And he gets dressed like super, super quick. And he's like, oh my gosh, like I have to go. Like I forgot. I had something. I was like, oh, my God. At 5 a.m. Okay. Literally.

He gets up and leaves. And I was like, that was weird, right? He didn't say that he needed. to leave at 5 a.m. But apparently he had something he forgot about. And so he's texting me later. He's like, oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry. I forgot that I had this hospital thing and I had to leave super quick.

And here's the other thing. It was a Saturday to a Sunday. Like, Saturday was the night that he had slept over. And it was Sunday morning that happened. He had a what? He had a medical school thing. At Sunday morning at 5 a.m.? Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, who knows. Who knows. But he gets up at 5 a.m. At this point, like after the 5 a.m. thing, after the Princeton thing, I'm getting a little bit nervous. I'm like, should I get onto him about this? But like, I really, really like this guy. I don't want to scare him away. And he already said, I need someone to trust me. So you're afraid to make him think you don't trust him. Exactly. But I'm getting little butterflies. Like, oh, my gosh, what if I'm getting those in? instincts. Yeah, the fem tuition, but we don't want to call it because then he'll think I don't trust him. Exactly. And so there's some weird stuff. He had also, I think on date two or three, I had actually, like, so I'm pre-bent. So I had already taken a physiology course. And at one point, he had texted me like, oh my gosh, we get to observe a new orthorac surgery today. I'm like, oh my God, that's amazing. And he's like, yeah, the heart looks so cool. Oh.

Oh, no. It's like, isn't a new orthorics a collapse lung? Oh, no. Yes, it is. And he's like, oh, no, it was like multiple things. Even I know that. Well, I know that. Fromology, whatever, yeah.

Yes. Okay. So he's, he looked at the Google machine did not give him the right answer. Yeah. And so he's like, oh, no, it was like multiple things. But we did get to see the horror. I was like, oh, got it. That's awesome.

I'm like he's trying when I try to talk to him about med school stuff I'm like tell me I'm like trying to like pull this information out of thing because like I'm interested like this is cool to me I'm not giving me any of that he's not giving me details right so that's another like fem tuition thing like that's sort of weird but like maybe he's just busy yeah whatever yeah he's a med student I have no reason not to trust him at this point and like he's a great guy and we're like getting along with super well. And at this point, I really, really like him. He's doing everything right. He's like giving me that attention, giving me those affirmations. We're really talking deeply, talking seriously. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I am so like this guy. And Valentine's Day is coming up. And that was week three, Valentine's Day is coming up. And so I'm like, what are we going to do? do for Valentine's Day. Yeah, like he'd take me on a date. He literally, he's like, I'm so sorry, I have to do hospital stuff on Valentine's Day. Would you be okay with doing the day before? And I was like, oh, that sucks. Oh, no.

Like, oh, that sucks. But yeah, no, I totally get it. Like, you have to do what you got to do. Oh, no. I'm happy to do the day before. I don't like it. So at this point, all of these kind of little things. Is it starting to walk like a duck and quack like a duck like a duck and is it started to be like a duck in your head? Well, here's the thing. It's like I'm 19 and I don't have dating detectives. I've never ever experienced like I've only had maybe two boyfriends at this point. So you're genuinely just believing what he's telling you. Exactly. Like I don't know any better. Yeah. Yeah. You're naive at that age. You're young. Exactly. I have no reason not to just go along with it because I'm like, why would he lie? Yeah, it doesn't, it wouldn't make sense to lie.

It wouldn't make any sense. Not to you, yeah. How old is he again? He was how much older than you? He's 23. He said he's 23. Okay, so he's 19-20-0. I had to use my fingers just now. So four years. He's four years older than you. Okay. Yes. He's a good age difference. Yeah, but it's fine. It's whatever. I'm like, he's a medical school hot. Yeah. So Valentine's Day is coming out. He wants to do something day day before. And I got to tell you, I'm a hopeless romantic. And I also, yes, yes. Hannah, I'm with you there. I was like, e, like Valentine's Day. I love Valentine's Day. I've always love Valentine's Day. Yeah. Love Valentine's Day. Love a gesture. But he had a hospital thing, so it's fine. He had a hospital thing. But what I did is I actually picked up craft paper,

and I made these. I took a piece of paper. I took a piece of paper. and I sort of scrunchly folded it and I put a heart at the end and I hung it from the ceiling. So I have 50 of these hearts hanging from the ceiling. It was mostly for Leo, but my friends enjoyed it. My roommates really liked it was like cute little decorations. I love stuff like that. That's cute. It was really fun.

I'm very crafty. So like that, it was just very fun for me. And he really liked it. And we took a picture under it. It was very cute. So he picks me. up and we go and he's like I was thinking we could go to this nice little nature area and when like we could go get my dog I was like great let's that sounds awesome so we go pick up his dog

yes I'm like hell yeah let's do it and we go pick up the dog this is the first time I've seen his house because I keep asking to go over but he says that his roommate is immunocompromptomers. And so he won't let anyone into their house. And I was like, oh my gosh, what if I just snuck in the window or something? And he's like, no, no, no. And during this time of COVID, that's a great excuse. And you're the medical students. So you're like, okay, I appreciate that. Okay. Exactly. And I really wanted to see his house, mostly because, like, at this point, he's met all my friends. I don't know anyone in his life. I haven't met any of his friends. I have met his dog. Like, that's about it. And I'm like, that's a red flag. If you don't meet their friends, that's a red flag. But you

are still kind of early in. So it's like, what do you do? We're only like three weeks in, right? And so we drive to his house. And he parks, I see his house. He's like, that's my house. And he parks around the corner. What? That's so weird. Yeah. From his house? From his house? And I'm like, why'd you park over here? I was like, I don't know. I just felt like it. I was like, okay. So you drove by. And he said, yep, that's my house and we're going to park way down here. And then you did? And then what did you do after you parked? So we parked and he's like, okay, I'm going to go get the dog.

And I was like, can I come? And he was like, no, roommate. I was like, got it. So he goes to get the dog. And we're just around the corner. He's gone for like 20 minutes. Oh my God. That's enough time for a quickie.

I know. Like he's gone for 20 minutes. And he comes back with the dog. And I was like, all right, you're ready? Like, let's go. I was like, I don't know what took him so fucking long. but whatever. It's Valentine's Day.

Let's go have a good time. Yeah. So we drive out to this park and the dog is running around and it's really cute. And we're just walking around this area and it's really, really pretty. And it's Valentine's Day. And he pulls out a poem that he wrote for me. And that poem, I don't know. I don't remember what the poem said because it has long since been thrown in the trash.

but I think it was something like I found my person and I feel so lucky to have found you and to have you in my life. And like, I'm crying. Because you thought it was sweet. That's the nicest thing anyone has done for me ever. You know? And it was just like another movie moment. That is totally a movie moment.

It was just so sweet and so adorable. And I just felt so lucky and I was just really, really great. And actually, during that date, we finally, after he read me that point, I was like, do you want to be my boyfriend? And he was like, yes. Oh, you asked him? Oh, so you asked each other? Yes.

That's cute. Okay. It was very cute. And I was like, oh, my God, you're my boyfriend. This is so exciting. All those love movies that you watch growing up and everything that's in those movies is happening to me. I'm getting read the poem. Like I'm totally following for this talk guy.

You are the princess and the fairy tale. Literally. And I'm so incredibly into him and he's so attentive. He's an incredible listener. He's kind. He gets a long role with my friends. He, he himself is just incredible.

He's so wonderful. And so the fom tuition that I'm getting or the small red flags that are making me nervous, it's easy to overlook them. The sweet stuff overrides it. Exactly. because I'm wearing the rose-colored glasses. I'm so into him. How do your friends feel so far?

Like you're telling them, obviously keeping them up to day on your relationship. Have they had anything to say about it up to this point? At this point, my best friend's like, oh my gosh, he's awesome. I think he's hilarious. So he won everyone over. Okay. Exactly.

She's like, he's so funny. I've had him over a few times and they're like making jokes at each other and messing with each other. I'm like, that's so great. They're going to be friends and that's so important to me. me. Yeah. And it's wonderful. So that's where I am at this point. After Valentine's Day, I actually see him a lot less. He said that he was put on this different rotation. So he's at this other hospital that's a lot farther away. And so he's just been really, really busy. He apologizes

because he hasn't been able to talk to me as much. And I'm like, I'm totally get it. Don't even worry, but if you find even a moment, like when you're driving home from work to just come over and give me a kiss, that would be amazing. Yeah, that's really sweet. So there was this one time he was like, I need to go grocery shopping today. Like, it's not really like a day and it's not really that fun. But do you want to come? And I was like, yeah, I want to come. I just like want to spend time with you. Yeah, I like to, even if you're going somewhere like the grocery store, I'm like, let's just go together. It's, let's just go together. I'm like, I'm your girlfriend now. Like, let's just do shit together. It doesn't have to be, for me, it never has to be like something super formal.

Like, it can just be fun. And one of the, I, I'm all about a grocery store date. Agreed. Like, it doesn't have to be a super planned date. Yeah. We can just hang out. So I go with him and it's really nice and we listen to music in the car and we just go shop for stuff. It was just a nice day.

And he's like, I'm sorry we can't, like, do anything fun. And I'm like, I just like spending time with you. Like, that's not all that I need. Yeah. Exactly. And then he dropped me off. It was actually the last time that I saw him. Well, I had to wait, what?

Yeah, that was actually the last time I ever saw him. Ever, ever, ever, ever. Ever, ever, ever. Ever, ever, to this day. Say more words. So that was Wednesday, right. So Valentine's Day, I think maybe it was Sunday. So we celebrated Saturday.

That was Wednesday. A few days after that. I'm sitting in the kitchen. I have some friends over. Best friend knows him. Another friend knows him. There's some other people there. We're all standing in the kitchen, just hanging out.

I look at my phone. I go completely, completely white. What happened? Shock face. So I got this text. And actually, I'm going to read you the text, a picture of it. I'm going to need you do it much faster than you're doing. I'm dying.

The text says, oh, God. Okay, here it is. So the text says, hi, my name is Sophie, and I've been dating Leo for three years. Three years! We lived together for the past year and a half. He never let me look at his phone, and this is why. So obviously, we are no longer together. My advice to you all is to stay as far away from him as possible.

You all! This isn't a group chat. Okay, that's, I was wondering. With 14 other people. What? 14? Good grief. So I'm 15.

Yeah. Oh, my God. And so. But basically she sent us a screenshot of his phone. And she told us that he had left his phone open and walked away from it at one point. And she had basically, I'm guessing that she had been suspicious. And so she grabbed it, ran into the bathroom and took a screenshot of his text, like his message app, and sent us a picture of it. And if you look at it, it's just like girl after girl after girl after girl after girl.

And there's so many that he organized them by how he met them. So if it's a bumble, there's a bumblebee next to their name. And if it's Tinder, there's a fire emoji next to their name. And if it's hinged, then there's a rose emoji next to their name. Oh my God. Are you serious? I'm serious. I will say that there's three pinned conversations and I'm one of them.

She's proud of herself She loved you the most probably It's fine It's fine It's fine But whatever Oh my God So I'm standing there

And I just go completely white And my friends are like Are you okay And so I give them my phone And I show them this text And you're like Oh my God Like everyone is like slackjod

Because you would have never guess They all met him And they were like He seemed like such a normal nice person. So when I got this text, I felt absolutely in shock. But in another way, I honestly, like the fomtuition had been in like the back of my mind. And so it all came forward. And I was like, oh my God. I honestly couldn't believe it because like I had chosen to overlook those things and like to trust him. But they never went away. They were.

still in the back of your mind. And so when that happened, you were like, oh, it don't make sense now. Yeah. So that was part of it. But then it just felt so achy, gross, like, disgusting. And I honestly, I did feel, like, silly. I'm like, I'm a college student. Like, I'm really, really smart. And I, like, do you feel like you bell for this? Oh, man. So did you reply? Did they reply? Did any Bell's reply? Did she say this? What happened next? next we actually all started talking in the group chat and so some of them were like he did this for me did he do this for you and the other girls are like no he said this so some of them he had told them like different schools so some of them he told harvard some of that like for undergrad he some of them

he told Yale some of them he told this some of them he told that but he didn't do his homework yet yes obviously I'm like he told me Princeton and And then it clicked. I was like, yes, he was looking up the school because he didn't actually go there. Oh, my God. So the girlfriend basically reveals all the lights. She's like, he did not go to any of those places. He is not in met school.

Everything that he has told you guys is not true. Oh, my God. First off, he's on parole. He's on parole. For larceny. Oh, girl. So, and that's, and that's, the question, that story that he told me about the necklace, is it true? Maybe he actually stole it.

And so at that point, the girls are like, check y'all stuff. Like, make sure that you have everything. Make sure nothing's missing. Did you check your stuff? Was your stuff missing? No. Everything was there. It was okay. Praise God. Oh, my God. I know. And then the girlfriend's like, he was wearing a toupee also. Like, he's actually bald. Oh! I didn't know. idea. He always wore his hat. And then I'm thinking, I'm like, he wore his hat during set. Oh my God. That's what? I know. And so he didn't do any of that stuff. He's living with her. Not she's living with him. He's living with her. He's living with her. So she works. The dog is

hers. Oh my. Shut up. The dog is hers. And he doesn't work. This is essentially dating 15 people is his job. Like, that is what you does all day. You need that much time for that many people. Good grief. Oh, my God. Yeah. And some of them are like, oh, my God, I had plans with him like this Friday.

And so I had to call my mom and tell her this guy that I had already told her about who I had told her all of these amazing things that he'd been doing. Like, I had to tell her he actually was not who he said he was. That was really, it was a very uncomfortable conversation. It was just so icky gross. I felt really, really stupid. And like it was comforting, I guess, having the group chat where we could all sort of reveal kind of what had happened.

Oh, also, he wasn't 23. He was 26. Ew! Oh, my God! Yeah, just like everything. And I mean, I looked him up. You can look anyone that's been arrested up online. So I looked him up.

And I found it. Like, I found his headshot. Wait, he, so he, gave you his real name also too? No. He gave me part of his name. Oh. So the other girlfriend, the real girlfriend, gave you his information? Full name. Yeah. So he had only given half of his last name. So apparently sometimes he goes by like half versus full. And I actually completely forgot to tell you about the tagging post thing. Oh yeah. Okay. Social media. So social media. I had trying to post the picture of us from Valentine's Day.

Yeah. After Valentine's Day. And I couldn't tag him. Like it says this person does not allow tags? No, it just like, it wouldn't do anything. Like, it wouldn't let me pull up his thing. And so what I think had happened, well, I think he just turned it off, like in his settings. Yeah, okay.

Because this was right after Valentine's Day that I tried to do this. And I was like, hey, I think that your tags are off. Can you turn them on so I can post us? and he was like, oh, I don't know what's up with that. Like, it hasn't been working. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay.

Facebook is broken. But then I tried looking in his tagged photos, and it looked like he hadn't been tagged for like two years. Oh, my God. No. Right? So like nothing is updated either. Just remind me, how long has it been since your first date to now?

Like three and a half, four weeks. I know. So this is like, like, middle end of January, to middle end of February. Like, literally just January, mid-January, mid-February. Right, because it was like February 14th for Valentine's Day. And then, so then like a few days after that. So you had to tell your mom, which that sucks when you have to tell your mom.

Because when you tell your mom, then like, that's kind of big. And it's real. Yeah. It's real. And it was, I felt like so gross. Yeah. Like, itchy that this guy had tricked me, you know, I just felt so nasty. And like, all of my friends already met this guy.

And right? And so, like, now people are like, whatever happened to Leo? Like, and then you have to explain it all over again. Can I, how far back did his, like, when the girlfriend sent the group text of the messages, how far back did these messages go? Was it the whole two years that his tags weren't working? I don't even know. Well, in the screenshot that she sent us, there was like a 506 p.m., 4.42 p.m., 4.8 p.m., 3.43 p.m.

So it's all very recent. It's not even. Wait, minutes that he's like texting these other girls that she's finding on his phone. Yeah, she found his phone unlocked and said, I'm taking it at the bathroom and took it. Then what do you do? What happens next? After I received those texts, I texted him. And I said, was any of this real?

And he was like, Holly, it was all real. Like, my feelings for you are real. Everything that I said was real. That poem was real. and I'm so happy to answer any questions that you have. I have no questions. Never talk to me ever again. Do not try to contact me ever.

You are blocked forever. And then that was the end of it. Good for you. So my question is, because I've done this too, like you want to know, was any of this real? How would either answer, like, was any of it real yes or no, how would that have impacted you either way? I think I just wanted to know.

if what it sort of was for him, like, what was the point of doing this? Yeah, because you have so many. Like, was any, like, yeah, okay, that makes sense. And, like, I mean, I sort of came the conclusion, like, clearly he's a psychological liar. Yeah. Because I feel like there are tells from normal people if you lie about this stuff. And, like, there were no tells. Yeah, he's good at this.

Except the small little femptuation buttons that were pushed earlier. Exactly. Like, the accidental thing. that like maybe he didn't know about. Yeah. And like my friends didn't know, like they were as shocked as I was because of just how normal he seemed.

I don't know. I felt stupid and just like weird. And I think the word icky that you used was not only great, but also interesting because, yeah, you get so intimate with somebody and then it's just like you want to rinse them off. Especially if you've had sex with them. It's like, who else are you having? That's disgusting. Well, maybe that's why he was so good at sex because he was doing a lot of.

Oh, he had so much practice. Speaking of that, one of the girls in the group chat texted that she had chlamydia. Did you get tested right away? Well, so my mom's a doctor and I was actually going home a few days after this all happened. And so as soon as I got back, I went to her office. I tested negative. Oh my God. I'm glad it was just one of them. Well, that we know of, but I'm glad it was just one of them.

That sucks that it was any of them. We need to, we've talked about it before. I don't know what the laws are around it, but it certainly doesn't seem consensual to not. I guess he can. Isn't there a law to disclose, but unless he didn't know, if he didn't know, if he didn't know, then I guess. There's no way he knew.

I mean, he could have known. But like, when you sleep with that many women, you just never know. And it's not illegal. to sleep without many women. It's just shitty when you don't. Yeah. Exactly. So now you're tested, you're negative. And then what happens then? How do you move on? Like, do you do? So what I ended up doing is ask my friend who loved doing TikToks to help me make a TikTok like a minute video just putting everything in there so that if somebody was like, what happened to Leo, I could just be like, look at this. And like I wouldn't have to rehash it. Wow. This is the new generation. You are,

representative of, which is so smart to be like, why should I have to keep telling the story again when I can make content of my drama? And not only that, like, I wanted to just rid myself of anything. I should probably tell you what happens. Here's the crazy. Okay, so. Here's the crazy. Y'all are going to be shocked. Okay, so this is why this is all coming up years later because I actually didn't know about y'all's podcast. I was told about it. After this happened, I make the time. I make the TikTok and because of that, I can, I can delete everything off my phone. I do a total white because it's just so gross like you can think about or see or anything like that. And so I have the TikTok. That's the only information that I have anymore. And that's it. So a few months ago.

Oh, no. Oh, bless it. So right. This is 2021. Here we are three years later. Here we are. Three years later. So Hanukkah, I now have a amazing boyfriend. He's absolutely wonderful. We were best friends for three years before we started dating. And now we've been dating for, we're almost at three years now. Okay. Yay. I love it. More romance. Yes. So, I'm at his house for Hanukkah and at his parents' house and his sisters are over. And we ate and I'm in the kitchen helping his mom put everything away and my boyfriend and his sister and his dad are sitting in the dining room just like chatting. And I hear his sister, his sister, Becca, she says, yeah, like, she keeps dating him and like he's completely just like lying to her. And we all know that he's lying to her. He's like

a psychological liar. And we just don't know what to do or how to help her. Who? Who? Who? So I hear this from the kitchen. I go in and I'm like, what is his name? She's, goes, Leo. And you flip the table. Oh my gosh. Literally. So years later, he's doing the exact same thing. He's praying on women.

Wait, what's this girl's story? Is she like? Who's this? Yeah, she friends with the sister? Do we now get to know what he's doing? So she wanted to tell her story? No, I like, well, here's the thing. So I send my boyfriend's sister, Becca.

I send her the TikTok. like send it to the friend send everything like she needs to know everything immediately yeah yeah and so becca sends to all that information to her and i sort of let it settle for like a week or something and then i text becca again and i'm like so what happened and becca's like i don't really know what's happening at this point like they're still together i think and what like she's trying to forgive him she just is so in love with him like she wants to move on and actually a few weeks ago when I told Molly this story. Molly was like, what about now?

So I texted Becca a week ago. They're still dating. Well, you know him. I'm curious what you think he said to her to convince her. You know, like, my ex is crazy. Well, yeah, that's the classic. But do you, like, what was the poem he wrote, you know? You know, I honestly, I think that he also got her with all the nice stuff that he says and that he does.

But I feel like he was probably like, this is who I was then. And I'm trying to change and I'm trying to be better. From what Becca said that, like, the girlfriend is dealing with, it doesn't sound like anything has changed. It sounds like this guy needs psychological health. Very much, though. And I don't. Jesus, good grief.

When people show you who they are, believe them. Yeah, when people show you their true color, Believe him the first time. I mean, we're saying. I don't believe that people are incapable of change, and I don't wish him to have a horrible life. I wish him to be better, and I wish him to have a happy life.

I truly believe that he has issues. Well, I'm curious, yeah, like, why people lie. There's so many different reasons. And we're constantly talking about it because it's sometimes hard to understand. I wonder if he's insecure, which just feels like a very surface level reason, because this is, we're all insecure.

We don't all lie about going to medical school. Well, he's needy as hell to have 15 freaking girlfriends on the hook. When does it cross over from being filling a void to being sociopathic? I honestly feel that he prays on the insecure and on the people that are in need of that kind of affirmation. I do believe that that's why she's so unwilling to let him go. Of course. And I feel for her with that. I hope that like, I hope, I mean, people listening to this podcast, like, I hope that they learned

value themselves enough to not let this shit stand. You know what I'm saying? I hope that she does that. Yeah. Like, she's not, she can leave at any time and she's not at fault. Like, this is very, they're very good at what they do. As soon as you said that, Holly, it, I immediately thought of unmet needs because we talk about it all the time. Predators pray on unmet needs. So in the beginning, you said he was telling me all these

nice things and you said that you didn't really get a lot of attention in your last relationship and you needed to feel appreciated and he filled those needs, those unmet needs. And for a lot of people, that's what it is. And they know how to nurture those unmet needs in a way that gets you to really trust them and love them because that's what they do. They pray on unmet needs. And it's so crazy. how that just applies in every single story. It's so crazy. Yeah. I want to look this guy up. Like we should see, we should see what's going on now. I want to know more about this guy. Like if he has a charge for larceny, I wonder what else he has. I wonder what, I don't know what we can find now. So we, I think we should investigate him.

I cannot wait to find. I need to know what he's doing. I'm guessing he's not a doctor. Well, I'm a- I said he didn't serve with a butter knife. He's going to do a neuromone, pneumoth, thorax and take out somebody's elbow or something. Oh, my goodness. He's going to take out somebody's kidney and replace it with like a Lego brick. Okay, let's, we, I'm going to look this guy up. So we're going to, so let's take a break.

Give me a chance to do some research on this guy. And then we're going to come back together and as soon as I find out what I can because I'm dying now. Oh, my God. I'm so excited to hear. I'm not going to lie to you guys. Like, oh, my God, I'm really interested. Okay, so welcome back. Well, it's still the same episode, right?

Same episode for you. It's been a week for us. Okay. Okay. So thank you, Holly, for giving me the time to look this guy up because I was dying to know more. So first of all, this Leo fella, there's some doozies. So he was charged and served time for a larceny charge.

which is, that's the one you already know about. So larceny is basically just theft of someone's personal property. It's, it's, and larceny can also be, like, finding $100 on the ground and putting it your pocket without trying to find the proper owner. Like, larceny is just, it's just basic theft, okay? That's good to know. I did not know that. Yeah.

I'm like, let me go put this back. No, just kidding. Yeah. So the larceny charge. He has charges for false pretenses, which that tracks. So he was sentenced in, 2019 on charges of false pretenses. And this charge means that he obtained a title to the victim's property like a house

or a car through misrepresentation with the intent to defraud. So this is different from larceny by trickery in that he obtains the title, not just the possession of the property. Does that make sense? So like basically he lied about who he was or like lied about something. Yeah, yeah. So it's basically like, misrepresenting yourself to get something from someone.

In this case, it was, it was the actual title to whatever the item was, whatever it is, like their house car or whatever. I also want to mention that when we talk about these false pretenses, a lot of our guests have shared stories where they're, the person that they're dating or that they're talking to has also used false pretenses to get something from them. And a lot of times that is, this is personal stuff, right? So, like, larceny is the theft of someone's personal property. It's not like from a store.

Yeah. So not like, no, larceny is not from, it's personal property. And then in this case, with the false pretenses, I don't know exactly what he stole. I don't, I don't really want to go too much into detail because for anonymity and just to keep it as anonymous as possible. But for the sake of the podcast, I do not know exactly what he stole, whatever the property was. but he did use the intent he had was to defraud. So the title that he got, let's say for a car, let's say he got the title to a car,

he kept the car, he kept the title. And now he can use that title to resell the car or pretend he's someone else or something else. That's, that's so he stole. He basically, yes, he basically stole the car. Yeah. Right. It's still,

so that's where the trickery comes in is just straight up lying. And that's, it reminds me of the, the farmer's only episode where she had amnesia, she fell and bonked her head. And then this fella basically said one thing to get a whole bunch of money from her and he got her to sign over some stuff and property. And we hear it in the dating,

all over the dating detectives. And this is a dogfish. This is dogfish behavior. He has a 2017 charge of using a computer to defraud a victim, which, listen, in my experience and in my opinion, if you have a charge of using a computer to defraud a victim, even one charge,

it's never just one. That's just one that they found. Do you know what I mean? Like I feel like, like very rarely is someone found like that's, and how do you prove that, right? So if they, if he was on one time,

this happened a lot and then he finally got caught in my opinion. And then he has a felony drug possession charge from 2015. Like this guy, bad news bears 100%. And the charges totally, they totally track with what he did to you and how he lied to you and he misrepresented himself. Like he's been misrepresenting himself all through Princeton.

Oh yes. His Princeton days. Yeah, that's, does any of that surprise you, Holly? No, not at all. It all completely tracks because it's like, he lied about everything. So it's not like that's the first time that he's done that.

Can we send this to the girl that he's dating? Is that allowed? I got it from my boyfriend's sister. So I'm assuming that if Becca has it, that everything is shared with, like, the friend. Because she sent her the TikTok that I had made about the whole thing. So, like, I think she has all the information. I think she's either choosing to ignore it or trusting him.

I don't know. We've also on one of the Patreon, We talk to someone about how you support someone who's in a relationship that's good. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I'm talking about? Like it's an abusive relationship, but when someone is lying to you and you're in a relationship, sometimes you can't just be like, hey, they're bad for you. Get out of their relationship because they'll want to shut you down. And so sometimes you just have to say, hey, this is the information I want to share with you. And if they accept it, then we as a support system have to be just a supportive community for them when

they're ready to see it. And sometimes that means going through it, just like you, whenever you had the Femtuation, but you were like, oh, this is really nice. And whenever you were ready to see it, which was when that text came. And you could have chosen when she sent that text to be like, no, this is, I'm just going to stick with him. And that could have been your choice. So you never know. People handle things different. It's great timing for you. Yeah. It happened like only four weeks over. If she's in love with this person in a year or even a couple months in, I mean, you told us how you felt. You felt gross.

You felt stupid. You felt icky, which you did not deserve to feel and you weren't any of those things. But then multiply that. And like the girlfriend of three years. Oh, it's three years. Yeah, it's three years. Well, that was the girlfriend. The girl who sex tests.

Yes, yes, yes. And there's so many girlfriends to keep up with at this point. Too many. It's ridiculous. I know. I'm like, I honestly thought about asking Becca for her information, but I'm honestly just terrified

of him ever speaking to me ever again. No, I don't blame you. I feel like if I did contact her and I did talk to her about it, that he would come after me or be like, why are you telling her this? And like, you can't set yourself on fire to keep others warm.

You know what I mean? You can say, hey, I'm really concerned for this and here's why, but then it's not, then you got to just look out for number one. Your safety. I joined the, are we dating the same person? And by the way, that was very difficult to get into, I will say, first off, it took a while. Because, like, there's all these, like, qualifications.

You have to, like, go through all the list. And, like, it was a whole thing. But I got into the, are we dating the same guy Facebook group for the area? And I posted the TikTok. And I was, like, watch out for this guy. If you know anyone. Did anybody respond? Dating this guy.

No. People were just like, this is. crazy. And then somebody commented, you should send this to the dating detectives. Oh, no. Oh, my God. And then you were like, okay, I'm on it? Or were you like, who the hell's the day be today? I was like, who the hell is the dating detectives? And then I found your podcast. And then I texted it to the, I DMed it to the Facebook DM. Do you find, do you find any similarities between your story and some of the others that you were like, oh my gosh? Dogfish is a turn. I was like, I didn't know that this happened to so many people that just helped, like, that everyone just gets completely tricked because it's not catfishing.

It's not like they don't look like who they say they are like. Exactly. It's so different. Yeah. And it's manipulative like crazy. We came up with dogfish because we were like, what do we call these scammers? I think it's really cool that that person told you about us because I think by talking about it more, it creates that sense of community. that has shown and proven to be so necessary for people who are going through these experiences

just to know that you're not alone going through it. So I'm so grateful. Do you know who shared? Will you connect with them? I don't know who shared it, but I can find it. Yeah, see who shared. And tell them that like I'm on the pocket. I can say it to them. And then tell her, we're shouting her out. We don't have to shout her out by name, but thank you. The more awareness we bring to it, the less it might happen. Because these are people's hearts. and this is trauma for people. Like this is lifelong trauma. People are affected by this for a long time.

I mean, that was the first time that I had been tricked like that. And so before that, I was, I would say it was a very trusting person. Even when Molly contacted me back on the Facebook, I was like, she was like, can I, like, you could send your number, like your email. I was like, why don't you email me and then I'll send my number. Because now you've won't, because now you have that experience. of being hurt. Did you, so the current guy that you're with, whenever you started dating this new fellow, was there a lack of trust there? How did you go from being totally hurt and like basically

freaking side swiped? Like, you'd no idea what was going on with this other fellow, Leo. How did you get with this guy and start trusting him? I will say that after the Leo experience, I did not go on to another dating app. It was sworn off for me. That was the end of that. but my boyfriend, we had actually been really, really good friends since I had gotten to college since my freshman year. And so this was somebody I already knew. Kind of already trusted. Yeah. And actually, when he asked me out, I said no.

I was like, my friend. Like, gross. No. I'm ruin this. I know. And then like, he was friend zoned. I was like, okay, let's go on a date. best date I've ever had in my life.

I mean, like, it's a date with your best friend. And it definitely, like, transitioned from the friendship to the love kind of thing. It doesn't suck that you already kind of knew him. You got another rom-com. Like, this is a different genre of rom-com. And I like this one better. Yeah. That's so old.

Like, let's move past that because I love this. Have you been able to let the Leo thing go and move on from it? Or does it still have a place where you're just kind of mad? Or are you just like, me, it happened. He's stupid. I'm done. Goodbye. Like, I'm happy now.

I think at this point, when I talk about it, it still sort of aches me. So, like, when I told my mom, like, I just, yesterday, I told my mom I was going to be on this podcast because bringing it up to her, anything about that hold situation is really uncomfortable. And, like, even when I told Molly about it afterwards, I was. was like tearing up because like it was a really hard thing and honestly my brain totally totally I forgot that it happens sometimes because it was just so unreal my brain totally compartmentalize it's almost like there's no way that happened literally well and because of that a lot I was actually with my best friend when I had talked to Molly and before I called Molly

I went over the story with her and she was like, no, this happened and this happened. I was like, oh my God, like I didn't really remember that. You brought you take it out of your head because you don't want to remember it. Well, shout out to Dr. Mama Holly

because she raised a good one and it's cool what you're doing. Where are you at on your schooling journey now? I'm at master's degree actually. I'm doing music. I'm not doing the pre-med thing anymore. No way, really? That's so cool.

What do you want to do with music? I want to be an orchestral musician. What do you play? I play French horn. That's amazing. I'm actually at like one of the best like music festivals in the world right now. It's kind of cool. That's amazing.

Well, shout out to your mama because she did good and you're beautiful and amazing. And I'm so proud of you. And I hope that she is too. I think it's really brave of you to share your story. And sometimes stories like this can be embarrassing because we feel like, oh, so stupid. I feel like that's so common, but also I just feel like when you talk about it out loud, you never know how you can be helping someone else in a similar situation. So thank you so, so much for sharing your story. I think it's... Take your power back. Yep. Yep. Thank you guys so

much for having. I'm glad you're happy with this new fella. You'll have to see. No, some picks, please. Okay. I will. Could you imagine being in a freaking group chat with 15 other women that your man is cheating on you with. I would be shocked. I would die. I am grateful and I know this is not to diminish her experience at all, but we talked about at the end like it could have been like so much worse. Like she's so lucky that somehow she was contacted at this point because it could have gone on a lot longer. Oh man. That one girl was, what? I'm glad that it's two years two years dating him. No. No, not the, not our guest, the other girlfriend. Oh yeah. She was with him a long time. Was it two, three years? One of the 15 girls.

One of the 15. And she was the owner of the dog that he was like, oh, this is my dog. And like, it was her dog. That's so rude. Like, don't use my dog. Like, ew, first of all, don't cheat on me. We absolutely need to discuss the dog because the dog makes you trust a person. Like, when you meet somebody with a dog.

Yeah. It's like, oh, I love your dog. And it's like, make some dog. They're safe. I think you said before we got recording, you were like, it's like a man with a baby. Like there's just something about it where you're like, oh, I have to like them. Yeah, it shows a softer side. Like it's just like a, could you have to care for a baby or a dog.

And so that shows a nurturing side of a man that it's kind of nice to see. And it kind of softens them a little bit, I think. So he must have known that because he used the dog as a prop. It's so messed up. And oh my gosh, if I was the girlfriend, yeah, if I found out that he not only was shooting on me, but also telling people and using my dog, Yeah. The betrayal.

And you made a good point about if you say, oh, I can't spend the night because of the dog, I need to get home to the dog, that would be an excuse that someone could use. Like, I can't, I got to get home to the dog. Like, sorry. I feel like eventually I would be like, okay, call a wag walker. Like, use roper for one night. Like, I'm worth it. It's kind of like, yeah, it's like the idea of when you're in your early dating stages.

And it's like, you're not saying you have to make them pay for something every time. But at the beginning, it's a gesture. And it's the same way about dog or invite me over. There you go. You don't even have to pay for a dog walker. Yeah. I'll come babysit your dog. Let's go take care of your dog together.

Like, let's do that. But no, I don't know. I guess the overall takeaway is there is something about being secretive about your home. And of course, early on safety, you don't have to invite anyone over until you feel comfortable. But at some point, it does become a red flag if they're like, I don't want you to come over ever. I don't know where I live. Yeah. And so he used.

the dog. I also think that, and tell me if I'm wrong, but I also think that he used racism to trick her into trusting him when they had the conversation about he was like, oh, because I'm black, because she mentioned he was black and that he used that as a way to say like, my last girlfriend didn't trust me and it like, oh, yeah, no, you're so right. I mean, he took a very real trauma and used it to hide his phone essentially and say like, I have trauma with trust. And it was we're obviously two white women so we can't add to this conversation as much as many other people

who have experienced work. But I would love to hear from our black audience. What are your thoughts here? Like do you think that this is something that he really leaned into? And do you think that that, do you think that he used his race to kind of trick her into trusting him? I think that it's maybe a little bit of a manipulative tactic to say,

oh, it's because I'm black. And if you don't trust me, it's, you know what I mean? Like I just, I feel like it's, he kind of, to use that against her maybe? I don't know. Well, it's just so icky to me because that is what it seems like to me and that's twisted. Yeah, but I'd love to hear a different perspective from someone who actually is a member of the black community that can say what your perspective is and what your thoughts are. So I'd love to hear from you. And I just, I don't know, just in general when you say,

well, my ex didn't trust me. And so trust is a big thing for me. And so she mentions that he expressed his concern with that and she didn't want to, she didn't want to. Yeah, she wanted to respect the integrity of his, and let him know, like, I've heard you what you said about being, trust being important to you. So I'm going to trust you. And so it helped him to hide his phone. It's an interesting thing looking at, everybody has baggage. And sometimes somebody might say, oh, I have big trust issues and don't want anyone looking at my conversations. You could be a partner that comes to it with your own issues that it does help you to verify seeing those things, obviously not in a sneaky way, but in a communicative way. And it's like,

you have to have that conversation about whether your needs align, whether you're willing to work through them and make adjustments, not necessarily even sacrifices, just like come together. And everybody has a version of that. And this is an obviously, it's an extreme case. But I just think, yeah, there's a lot to this conversation. So winging. I like the part too when we were talking about red flags. Like, did you see any red flags? And she's like, no, I was 19. I didn't have the dating detectives. So like these are red flags that she didn't see because she was young. But I also feel like with the dating detectives, maybe we can help bring. Next time you're dating someone, maybe you can think about some of these red flags. Because you're like, I heard it on the dating detectives. Yeah,

we're not telling you not to fall in love. We're just telling you to trust. But they're Trust but verify. Speaking of verifying is lying about his schooling, I was going to ask you about how to verify that. Like how do you verify where someone went to college? So listen, typically for colleges, there's going to be a list of alumni, right? On the school's website or the Google machine is a strong machine,

you guys. Like if you go deep enough into the Google machine, you are going to find someone's history at their school. I want to see. I'm doing it to myself. I'm Googling Hannah. Anderson, Boston University. You can also verify jobs sometimes.

That's a little bit more tricky just because there's privacy involved and like employment stuff. But you still can like if they don't have a LinkedIn, that's not abnormal. But usually anybody who's ever looked for a job and they're a grown up usually has a LinkedIn. But it's, I think it's, did you find yourself, Hannah? I did. I found myself through like some activity stuff.

And then like I'm trying to find if there's like. like an official list, but like, yeah, no, I definitely, if anyone wants to check, I day, I went there. Especially if they had like high, high, like high achievement, thank you. Like high or sports and things like that. They're going to be recognized even more. So you're going to, you're likely going to find them. And a lot of people don't realize that. All you got to do is Google the school and you can find the alumni on a lot of the things. And I think that, it's a great way to verify people, but it's also a great way to kind of like,

I don't know, I hate to say like people use it, people can use it for mean. Like they can use it for not nice, but. Yeah, don't do that. Yeah, but you can use it for your safety. To like verify what someone's saying. I think it's good. And also like if I think there's a possibility

that somebody is harder to find, that doesn't automatically mean that they're lying, but it's like if you can't find them, it is red flag. And that's not a deal break. but put the little sirens on or the antenna up. But if it's the only red flag, then I wouldn't worry about it too crazy much. But if there's that and other red flags and if there's more than one red flag,

then it's time to start being a little concerned. But if it's just something where like you can't find them on the Google machine, that's not necessarily like a big deal. But if you get a text with 15 other girls in a group chat, That's 15 red flags right there. Could you imagine? Could you imagine? I want to know.

Listen, if any of you guys listened to this story and you're like, oh my gosh, that was me. I was part of that group chat. I want to hear me. Do you know anybody that was part of this group chat? Like all of a sudden, you're thrown into a group chat with these other people and you're like literally what's going on? I feel like every response to that is valid.

I think my personal response would be like I'd be up all night talking to these girls just wanting every single detail. Every single detail. What's the, we say, we said this before. It's like the real house. It's like, receipts, timelines, photos, da, do, do that. Like, I would want everything. I would want all the details too.

Even the hurtful ones. I would want it all. I know. She said she's removed herself, which I totally understand because she's kind of moving on. But if any of you, like McKenzie said, think you were in the group chat. Yeah. What did you experience? 15.

That's a full-time freaking job. this guy was a walking red flag or he was 15 walking red flag and that's all who they A dog walking red flag. A dog walking red flag. I am so happy to see that she seems like she has grown from it and is so great. Like she's so cool and smart and I like her a lot. And I hate that that happened to her, but it always happens to great people. That's what we're learning here. Well, I was hopeless at 19.

She was far beyond me. I would have been like, oh, you have to keep your dog. there? I don't know. I'll just build a dog house in my place and you can come live here. I was right? Just move your dog in. It's fine. But yeah, I want to hear from you if you think that you know this guy or you think that you've had an experience with this fella. I want to hear your story too. So you'll have to let us know. I hope that somebody else who experienced this guy like hears this and was like, oh my gosh, I was in that group chat because I want to hear their perspective also. It's crazy. You should tell them the email so they can email us. Oh yeah. So if you, if you're

you have any stories that you want to share with us, you can send us an email, and Hannah's going to give you that email. Our email, investigate at the datingdetectorspodcast.com. Thank you. You say it so eloquently. I just love the way you say it, and you like, oh, I get a little nervous. I'm going to say it wrong. Anyway, you can also just DM us at dating detectives podcast on Facebook, on TikTok, on Instagram, all the places. And hit us up on Patreon as well. It's $5 a month. And next week, reminder, we will. We'll be taking a break, but we're coming back right after, and there'll be a new one on Patreon next week. Yes.

And then, yeah, and then we'll all be fine. You'll be fine. It's fine. Everything, this one was a doozy. I got it. We're going to, I'm going to keep, I'm going to keep updated with her and see if like she hears anything from anyone. That's crazy. But thank you guys so much for listening.

We love you so much. And as always, trust your trust your friend.