The Dating Detectives - The Prophecy: Part 2

Episode Date: December 2, 2024

In this shocking conclusion of a two-part series, Mackenzie and Hanna continue listening to Jubilee's story, whose journey takes listeners through the dangerous intersection of cult beliefs, prophetic manipulation, and emotional abuse. Jubilee begins by recounting her entry into the Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry, a religious community known for its belief in miracles and prophetic visions. Amid the indoctrination, she meets Ted, a charismatic fellow member whose grand romantic gestures and shared faith quickly draw her in. Their whirlwind romance takes a dramatic turn when a public prophecy declares Jubilee as "God’s gift" to Ted, cementing the belief that their union is divinely ordained, but everything is not what it seems. Click here to join our Patreon! For only $5 a month you will get 2 extra episodes a month, monthly virtual live events, and access to our community page! If you've been dogfished and want to share your story on the show, email [e-mail] or contact us through our website using this link This episode is sponsored by Miracle Made. Get your incredible, temperature maintaining, silver infused sheets for 40% off, PLUS a free three piece towel set, by going to trymiracle.com/TDD and using code TDD at checkout. This episode of The Dating Detectives is sponsored by DeleteMe. Get 20% off your DeleteMe plan when you go to join joindeleteme.com/tdd and use promo code TDD at checkout! This episode of The Dating Detectives is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/tdd today to get 10% off your first month. This episode of The Dating Detectives is sponsored by Quince. For free shipping on your order visit quince.com/TDD ***The following Program contains names, places and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following Program is provided for entertainment purposes only and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 for support. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following program contains names, places, and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-733 for support. Hello, dating detective sleuthies. Hello, my sleuthies. Hello, my little sleuthies. And your little husbands who listen from the other room and pretend that they didn't additionally want to listen, but then came in, too.

So many people say that it's so funny. I love it so much. Shout out to the dating detective's husbands. Thank you for being here. Yeah. Seriously. I'm excited to be here for this. I don't know if excited is the right word.

I know. We always, we're not excited, but we are. grateful to be able to platform these stories. Yes. There it is. Yeah, we're grateful for that opportunity. So we love you guys for sharing these stories, but gosh, sometimes they are so hard to hear, right? Yeah.

I mean, we were just, we'll get into part two. I know you're all like, get to part two, but we were just talking about how you all send us your stories as we ask. And we go through the DMs and, you know, some of them are so fun and empowering. And some of them are really sad and hard. And we're here for all of it. we're here for you. We are reading and hearing you, even if we don't have your story as a podcast episode. And I'm glad that this can be a place where people feel comfortable sharing that because we really, really care. Shall we recap part one of Jubilee's story so we can continue?

Hannah, give us a recap. Okay. If I forget anything, jump in. So Jubilee is a young, young girl, I mean, 1920, I think is when we started. And she was at a Christian school of supernatural ministry that had some, as you can imagine, supernatural beliefs, literal Bible interpretation. So they were really like, like, I think I made a joke about like, oh, is somebody going to walk on water? And she was like, no, like people thought they could. So it was that kind of school.

And there was a lot of prophecy and religious influence. in terms of who you can be with. Like, and people really wanted to find a partner. Spring, no, ring by spring, which a lot of you have said you connected with or have experienced. So then she went to another school as like an internship and met Ted. Fucking Ted.

Who was the church janitor and the charmer of the century, just love bomb galore. They get engaged, especially after a relationship. religious figure said at a big event that he had a prophecy that God was giving him Jubilee. Yeah. Like that was like she was a special gift. Yeah, because we're gifts. I mean, we are gifts, but like not objects. You know what I mean? But yeah, so then she had the whole community rooting for their relationship and she really wanted it to work as one does. And he was great. I mean, he was like all these signs that he was awesome. So they get together and it becomes slowly more and

more abusive, isolating. He's like... It's so heartbreaking. Yeah. He like really humiliates her and has some delusional belief. So where we left off is where he has told us that he wants to move to Atlanta to become a big shot, big time director and own Disney. And own Disney.

Own all, like literally own all of Disney. Okay, fella. And she said that in Atlanta, the abuse started to become a little less frequent, but a little more violent. And we will find out where it goes. So yes, trigger warnings, physical, emotional, and religious abuse, for sure. This is hard to hear just FYI. Yeah, but it is good to talk about.

As somebody, some of you definitely said, you notice a lot of the textbook signs of abusive relationships, which when you're 18 or 19, you're not as privy to usually. Right. Not that it's her fault, even if she was privy to them. because they're good at it. I think it's the more, and the more we talk about it, the more we make it obvious. So let's keep talking about it. Let's keep the conversation going. On one hand, our marriage was getting a little bit better because I do think he was feeling more fulfilled. You know, whereas in Texas, he was being abusive maybe every day. And in Atlanta, it was more spurts.

So he would be really good for a few weeks. And then there would be a big blow-up abusive incident. and when I was in Texas, the abuse was happening more often. But when I was in Atlanta, it was more spread out, but every abusive incident was bad. It was just a lot of highs and lows. Those years are some of the best years of my life, despite everything that I went through with him just because I made a lot of different friends. But it did add to a lot of tension between us because he didn't like that I was making friends outside of him, you know, the isolation.

of it all. He was afraid that I was going to turn liberal, which unfortunately for him, I did. No, no. But it was definitely a thing. When we were living in Atlanta, I had started seeing a rheumatologist, and they ended up deciding to do a sleep study on me, and they found that I was being, quote, unquote, disturbed 10 times an hour. So I was getting out of deep sleep 10 times an hour, and I was just not getting any good rest. So I would wake up in the morning and feel like I got hit by a bus and I was just constantly in pain. So after I did the sleeping study, they ended up putting me on a sleeping medication. That way I could try to get sleep at night. And it was such a saving grace for me. I noticed a huge difference after this. It finally felt like my body was able to rest. And these pills, I had to go to see my

doctor very often and it was something that they tracked. So if I lost them or if something happened to them, you know, I can't just get more easily. And Ted would at times try to use that against me. So there were a couple times where he during an argument would take my sleeping pills and he would run to the bathroom and try to flush my sleeping pills down the toilet. So there was one time where I tried to get them out of his hand. He's like trying to flush them down the toilet. And in my mind, he knew what he was doing, which would be if he flushes them down the toilet, I'm going to be in pain for the next month. And he knows that. He knows that that would directly cause me physical pain. So I had tried to get them out of his hand. And then he ended up saying, you, you like grabbed me. You know, and I'm like,

I grabbed the pills out of your hand because you were about to flush my medication, you know. But he had a way of just making me feel absolutely crazy. And that's just a direct way that he was constantly trying to make my fibromyalgia worse. One thing he would do is try to ruin things for me the night before. And this is the first scary, scary incident. I had been working on that stand-in set, and I'd been so excited to do that job. And that's one thing with Ted is whenever good things were happening in my life, there was always an abusive incident nearby. So I think I had gotten home really late because I'd been on set all day and then I had to work at six in the morning the next day.

And I don't remember what we were arguing about, but I was laying in bed and he ended up charging at me and he ended up strangling me maybe for, I know, maybe 10 seconds or something like that. And he ended up standing up and throwing himself on the floor and crying and saying that he felt like such a bad person. And I mean, at that point, I felt like what he had done could not be undone. I was very much reeling. But I think that that's the first time where I realized, oh, our dynamic is bad, you know, because I think that most people who have been in abusive relationships could probably relate to the idea of like the incident that happens when you realized, oh, this is

something different. This is not a normal relationship. Like, we have crossed some sort of boundary that you can't come back from. But to see him on the floor crying, there was this sense of me wanting to love him in a religious way. Love him like Jesus would love him. I see this broken man on the floor and I feel like it is my job to tell him that he is not such a bad guy. And in a way, I think that the church groomed me to be that way. Because when I was at Bethel, everybody has a different sector of ministry that they're interested in. You have people who are wanting to do children's ministry, youth ministry, people who want to live overseas. And when I was at Bethel, I had truly thought that it was my calling in life to love the unlovable.

So the worst of the worst people, the people who are committing. the worst crimes. I don't know where I got this idea, but in my mind, I had it that this was my job, that I was going to love people who don't deserve it. So when I found myself in this marriage to Ted, and he is abusing me, it almost felt like I needed to walk the walk. Like, here I am. I am in this situation where I am with someone who is truly in the wrong and truly unlovable. And this is my chance to prove that I believe in forgiveness, that I believe in grace. And I felt a heavy burden to do that and to love him through it. Because I just saw him as a child, to be honest. You know, he's on the floor crying and I was just like, oh, he's, he's so vulnerable. He's so sad. You know,

he feels so bad. And I really let myself go there mentally. So that night, we ended up, staying up really late, me telling him that it was okay. God, I'm so sorry. That must have been so scary. It was. You know, and I felt he did it and I was just so in shock. How long were you together at this point? At this point, we had been together maybe two or three years. So we had been in Atlanta for over a year at this point. So I ended up going to work the next day and I kept it together for the most part. But I think that that's the first time when I really thought, you know, I'm either going to have to get divorced or I'm really afraid that he is going to end up killing me. Oh my God. Because this is around the time that the Chris Watts situation happened.

Oh, Chris and Chanan Watts. Yes. There was a situation where this man killed his children and his wife and had strangled her. And it was so horrific. And I just remember laying in bed next to him. And he was asleep and I was on my phone reading the details of this story. And I remember people saying, we never thought that Chris Watts would ever do this. He seemed like such a good guy. And I just remembered thinking, if this happened to me and if he did end up killing me, there are so many red flags that I am ignoring. And I really felt like that could be me. That's when I started to hide knives and I started to be really scared that it could go further because obviously it feels like another level of abuse to go from somebody hitting you with a jacket to someone doing something

that violent. So in my mind, it felt like everything was on the table now. Nothing would be too far gone for him to do. And I was also just reading a lot of stories on Reddit. I would come across stories about Chris Watts and other really abusive situations. And it really got me in my head. And I would talk to him. I would tell him, like, I'm scared of you. I'm scared that you're going to kill me someday. And he would say, you need to stop reading so much stuff. You're stressing yourself out. You know, I almost like gaslit myself into being like, maybe I'm just on the internet too much. maybe I'm chronically online, you know, and maybe I am being dramatic. But that's when I started to get really scared. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. You guys, the holidays can be super,

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Again, that's try miracle.com slash TDD to treat yourself. Thank you Miracle Made for sponsoring this episode. So I was very much struggling with this idea of, well, God wanted me to be with him because this freaking prophecy and how much is it my responsibility? to show the love of Jesus and forgive him because that is another thing that he would throw in my face is he would do something very abusive and I would not be able to get over it. And I'd say, you know, I just don't really want you to touch me right now because I'm still stressed out about what happened. And he would say, well, you're not showing the love of Jesus. I hate that. Okay, so using that, okay. Yeah, it was a lot of religious abuse, a lot of, well, God says to forgive 77 times seven,

And I'm like, well, it does say that. So I guess maybe I should try to get past it. But that was just a very dark time where I ended up feeling really suicidal. Like I didn't know if I was going to be able to continue on with how things were. I hate that you felt that way. I'm so sorry. Thank you. It was hard, you know.

And I hadn't told my family because I was still trying to protect him. You know, my family, God bless them, they had no idea what was going on. They had seen him get mad maybe one time at a family function. But other than that, it was, he's such a good guy. He loves her so well. And I just didn't want to make the situation between him and my family worse because they loved him. But little did they know that he hated them. So I was like, well, if I go tell my family, then he won't play nice anymore.

He's not going to want to go see them anymore and it's just going to make my life harder. He knows that, too. He knows that. They know that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it was isolation 101. But during this time, something good did happen. I ended up, yeah, no, I ended up deciding that I wanted to nanny. So I had gotten on this sitter city website and I had applied to this job. And the lady said that she wanted me to come to the house for the interview. And I was a little nervous about. that because I'm like, you know, I don't want to go to someone's house. So I just Googled her name. I was like, okay, I'll just Google her name, make sure that no arrest records come up or anything like that. And all of a sudden, my computer is filled with a bunch of red carpet photos of this woman and her very famous husband. I was like, what is happening right now? So I wasn't sure if it was a scam, but also we are living in Atlanta where things are being shot all the time. And they did say

that they only needed a nanny for like four or five months. So I was like, I guess this is legit. So I end up going and it was them. And I ended up getting hired to be a nanny for their kids while they were filming. And it was just a very high highlight of my life. You know, I had so much fun. I love that. We were out there. We got invited to their Christmas cast party. It was so fun. And I'm like in this room with a bunch of famous people. I was, it was just such a, happy time. When I look back on 2019, it was the best and the worst year of my life, all wrapped into one. I, at the time, I was posting self-help stuff. I had, like, started a blog, and I was posting about, like, how to be happy because I had been able to help my fibromyalgia a lot. I had been reading a

lot of self-help books, and I had been meditating and doing yoga, and then I got this job working for the celebrities. So in my mind, things were going so good. And I felt like, every, that I could control in my life was going really well. But Ted was this factor that I could not control. So it felt like I did the best I could with what I had. But at the end of the day, I could just not control him or his moods or how he would treat me. And I think that that is why the abuse ramped up. And he even said as much, he said, I am afraid that you are going to thrive and you won't need me anymore because I feel that he knew that I was starting to be a whole person and that I was starting to be happy. And that really scared him because he knew I wouldn't need him. So it was a weird

time feeling like, I am so happy every time I was on set, every time I was with this family, I really liked myself. I liked my life. I would tell my family how much I loved Atlanta and how I didn't want to ever come back. And I think that that also led to me not wanting to leave because there was this part of me that didn't want to blow up my life. Because what? If I get divorced, I'm going to move back home to Texas and I have to restart everything. And I just wanted everything to stay the same. So there would be times where I would literally tell Ted, just promise me that you won't be abusive anymore and just promise me that you're not going to do anything bad ever again. And I swear I can get over it. Everything that you've done in the past, as long as you just don't do anything going

forward, I told him, I know myself and I know that I can forgive you and get past it. But it was just this factor that I had no control over. So while I was working for the actor, this was around December of 2019, I believe. There was a situation at Bethel. So at this time, I am not as connected to Bethel as I was. Ted was still all about Bethel. He still loved their teachings. He was super all about it. But I was starting to deconstruct some of the things that I thought. And a lot of that had to do with Ted. He would tell me that he, this is crazy, that he used to hope that he would come upon a car accident where someone has died so that he could go pray for dead people to be raised from the dead. And he would tell me that he wanted to crash funerals to raise people from the dead.

And I used to tell him, that is so insensitive, you know, like to show up to somebody's funeral and to go pray for them. And he would always tell me, well, if they're raised from the dead, don't you think that they would be happy? Don't you think that they want their loved one raised from the dead? And I was like, in theory, but it's not going to happen. So I was just starting to realize, that our belief system could be very painful and very insensitive. That was another thing that I was realizing. Having been on the other side of it, having fibromyalgia and chronic pain, and having these church members pray for me and be so insensitive and tell me, well, maybe you have some unforgiveness. Maybe that's why you're not being healed. And if you just had enough faith,

you wouldn't have fibromyalgia. You wouldn't be sick if you just believed that you didn't. So I was feeling very burned by this entire Bethel Cold Charismatic Circle. And this all really came to a head in December of 2019. So there was a situation where a worship leader's child, I think she was two years old, Olive, she ended up passing away in her sleep. And it was absolutely heartbreaking. And the first time I heard about it was because on my Facebook, all of a sudden I just saw all these posts and it was hashtag wake up olive and essentially the church was praying to raise this baby

from the dead and the parents were obviously supporting this because they were in deep grief and they wanted their child to be raised from the dead and nobody was telling them that this was just what was happening and trying to give them grief counseling or anything like that they really just fed this delusion. And this ended up going so viral to the point where BuzzFeed ended up writing an entire article on some crazy church out in California is trying to raise a two-year-old from the dead. And I think they ended up praying for six or seven days. And there was a 24-7 worship thing happening at Bethel where people were going and they were praying and people from all over the world were interceding that this baby would be raised from the dead. And I remember telling Ted

sitting in our living room, I said, you know, this is so sad and not okay. These parents are in denial and they need grief counseling and I'm just super against what is happening over there and I'm so embarrassed that I am even affiliated with this church. And he ended up coming at me and telling me that I was the reason that Olive was not going to be raised from the 10. Oh my God. He was like, Your lack of faith is why Olive is not going to be raised from the dead. And this was a huge fight between the two of us. So it was just the boiling point of our differing beliefs, us realizing, like, we do not believe the same things. And this is when something really crazy happened. So this job working for the celebrities, they ended up approaching me and saying

that they were going to go back to L.A. after this film was done rapping and that they wanted me and Ted to move to L.A. to be their full-time nanny. And in my mind, I'm like, this is best case scenario. He has been wanting to get his foot in the door. And the actor had even said, I will get Ted on sets. I will get him connections in the industry. If you guys move out to L.A., I can at least get him some production work, despite the fact that he was so underqualified. He had never worked on a set ever. It's so funny that he moved to Atlanta to do it and then like didn't do it. Like he didn't work on sales. Well, no, and he really didn't. And I used to tell him, you have to go to these networking functions. There was one thing that always happened on Monday where a bunch of people in the industry would go and network just at this bar and anybody could go. And I used to tell him, you should go. And he never went. Like it was this dream that he did nothing to pursue. Not one thing did he try to. to actually do anything to make it happen.

So I'm pitching this to Ted. They ended up writing me a whole proposal on how much money they would give and a relocation fee and all this. And Ted said that he didn't know if he wanted to do it. And I was so taken aback. Like, what do you mean? This has fallen into our lap.

We are so lucky. This is everything you've ever wanted. And he said, I'm afraid that if we move to L.A., you will thrive and you will not need me anymore. Okay. And that you will leave me. At least he's aware.

So self-aware. So self-aware about his awfulness. I mean, I was going to say he probably doesn't want to go because you're the one that was succeeding in getting the connection. Yeah. His accomplishment. I think that was a part of it. And just his pride didn't like that I was the connection to set it up for him.

So we decided that we were going to shelve the conversation. because I had a race coming up at Disney and my fibromyalgia had been getting better. So I had started running and I was going to run my first half marathon. That's incredible. Thank you. Especially with chronic illness. I mean, congratulations. Yes, thank you.

And I was like, I'm going to run through the pain and I was so proud of myself. It was this big thing that I had really worked for 10 months. And I was going to go run this half marathon at Disney World. with my cousin. So we decided that we were just going to shelve the conversation until after our vacation. The actor had agreed to give us time to think about it. We end up going to do this race. And this is the pinnacle of everything that I have been working towards. I really feel like this is a victory lap in my battling fibromyalgia. I still have pain, but I at least feel like I have worked my way through this. So we end up going on this trip with my cousin. And

my cousin Alan was going to run the race with me and Ted was just going to watch his young son. So it was the four of us on this trip and immediately the vibes are just off. The vibes are bad. And there was just some weird tension between Alan and Ted. And it was all on Ted's part, you know. And I think that there was just this weird like macho vibe going on. No matter what we wanted to do or anything we would suggest, we would say, hey, Ted, should we go ride this ride? Ted would be like, no, I don't want to do that. Let's ride something else. And he was being so combative

for no reason. So we did not know why he was in such a bad mood. But my cousin was picking up on it. And it was really the first time that my family was seeing this side of him. So here I am panicking, just trying to keep it all under wraps. Like, let's just have fun. So there was this new ride that everybody wanted to ride at Hollywood Studios. And we needed a special. ticket to be able to ride this ride. So it was one of those things where you have to wake up early in the morning and you have to get on the app in order to ride this ride because it was a brand new one. So Ted said that he was going to handle us getting these tickets. So he wakes up and then he ends up telling us that he wasn't able to get tickets for everybody. He was only able to get tickets for

himself. What? Just one ticket. What? He said they ran out. They ran out and he alone is the person. who can ride this ride and he said, sorry. Fine. Go. Leave us alone. Let us do our thing. And we're trying to be chill. So we're like, okay, we were such good sports about it. Honestly, we were like, have so much fun. So we end up sitting in the parking lot of Hollywood studios so that he can run in. And it still took over an hour, maybe an hour and a half. And we're sitting in this car just waiting for him to ride this ride. So he comes back in and he said it was a lot of fun. So later that night, I have

have my race in the morning. And these races start so early. They start at, I think, I had to wake up at 7.30. I think like 5.30. And you have to, I had to wake up at three in the morning for this day. Oh, my God. Because the race has to be practically finished by the time they open the parks. Oh, because it's Disney. Yeah, you're running through the parks. So, yeah, I'm like, I need to go to bed early. My plan was to try to fall asleep by like 7 p.m. because, you know, we're just. trying to sleep. And that night, I'm laying in bed, getting ready, and I tell him, you know, I'm so bummed that we weren't able to ride that ride. It sounded like so much fun. And he looks at me so serious and says, well, actually, you could have ridden it. I just chose not to get them for you

guys. And I'm like, what do you mean? What do you mean we could have written it? And he said, well, there was an option in the app to add everybody. And I just didn't add you. Ew! Yeah. What's your point, sir? Yeah, so this ensues a huge argument where I'm like, what do you mean? That's like so insane. We were sitting in the car and we thought that we couldn't ride it.

And I was asking him, like, please explain the thought process behind that. Like, why did you do this? And he just wouldn't answer any questions about this. So after arguing and getting nowhere for maybe like 30 minutes, I was like, okay, well, I just need to go to bed. We are not going to make up because he wasn't apologizing or anything. And he would not let me go to bed. He said, we cannot let the sun go down on our anger per the Bible. So we have to stay up and work on this. So he proceeded to fight with me till one in the morning. He would not let me go to bed. Ew. This is so abusive. Yeah, the sleep deprivation thing.

across the board. And yeah, and ruining events. Like abusers love to ruin events for you. And make it about them. Yeah. Yeah. So he starts threatening my cousin because I said, well, my cousin would protect me. I said, please don't hurt me because it was escalating so bad to where I thought maybe

he was going to attack me. And I said, well, my cousin's here. He would protect me. And my cousin was in the other room and had on white noise. So he was already asleep and didn't hear any of this. And Ted's like, well, I'll beat your cousin. up, you know, and it was just so terrible. So we end up going to bed at like one in the morning. I get two hours of sleep and I do run the half marathon and- Hell yeah. It was honestly the best.

Like this was such a traumatic week, but my cousin. Did you cry while you're running? I have had that experience too where you're just like so proud of yourself. Oh yeah. Like sobbing at the finish line just on cloud nine. And when we. we ended up getting to the finish line, Ted seemed happy for me at first. You know, he had been texting me during the race and telling me he was so proud of me. And he seemed happy at first, but by the time we got to the car, he was like overhearing about the race. It's been like 10 minutes. Okay, he's overhearing about the race. He doesn't want to hear about it because he feels left out. Yeah. That he did not run this race. Wow. This guy. An awful partner. Terrible.

So this just continued on for the rest of the trip. But on our last day of the trip, we decided that we were going to go to Animal Kingdom to eat at the Yak and Yeti restaurant. So I was so excited. I had done a bunch of research on the different places to go, like Disney Food Blog. I was very excited. Oh. And I decided to get the Kobe Beef Burger because at this time I wasn't a vegan. I like stopped being a vegan for a bit. I was like, I should clarify. No, I end up getting the Kobe Beef burger because it was recommended. And And my cousin ended up getting like the teaka masala. And then the food came.

And my cousin starts dropping hints. He says, oh my gosh, your burger looks so good. Jubei. It looks so yummy. Like we all have that friend who just wants your food. Like, wow. I am the one who wants everybody's food. Valid.

So I was like, would you like a bite of my burger? Because he was just dropping so many hints. So I didn't give him my burger for him to bite on. it or anything like that. I took a fork and a knife and I got a piece of my burger and I just gave it to my cousin. Now, this is where things take a turn because this set Ted off. He, all of a sudden, he is crossing his arms and looks really pissed, barely touching his food. He looks so angry. And I was like, what is going on? And making it obvious so that you know he's pouting. Yeah. Yes.

Like, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm. Like making all the noises. And me and my cousin, we're just like awkwardly trying to keep the conversation going and we're trying to pretend like everything is fine. But it continued like this, the entire rest of the meal. And at this point, I had no idea what was wrong. I didn't know if it was something in our conversation that had upset him. So we end up getting the bill and my cousin Allen goes to the bathroom. And the waiter had came and gave the bill. And he was so flowery to this waitress. He was like, thank you so much. much. The food was so good. It was like something flipped and all of a sudden he was so nice again. So when she left, I was a little sassy. I said, so you can be nice to the waitress, but you can't be nice to your wife because I'm like over it. I'm like, do it's up with this. Yeah. So he explodes on me and he tells in the middle of this restaurant tells me that I disrespected him as the man at the table by giving a bite of my burger to my cousin first and that I should have offered it to my husband because he is the man at the table. Okay, guy. And I was just like,

you have got to be kidding me because I had been trying to figure out why he was upset and that had not even crossed my mind. So we end up leaving the restaurant. We pay and my cousin's still in the bathroom and we are outside of the Yacan Yeti restaurant and he just starts screaming at me in the middle of Antelawo kingdom. And I kid you not, a crowd is forming around us. And I'm like, we are going to go viral on freaking TikTok or something because it was so cringy. And he just started telling me that he was going to strand me in Florida, that he was going to take my cards and throw them in the parking lot and that I would have no way to get home. Oh, my God.

Did anyone say anything? No. No, they did not. And in fact, my cousin came out and, you know, my cousin was like, I'll just let you guys talk. And he kind of went away. So I was just there with Ted. And eventually things calmed down a bit. Like we parted for maybe 10 minutes and then we came back together.

And in my mind, I was just like, I am going to just try to put a bandied on the situation because I was so embarrassed. I don't like to fight in front of people. In my mind, this is like Michael and Jan from the office dinner party. I do what you're talking about. I'm like, I do not fight in public. I just thought it was so horrible. And I think that this was the first time when I realized that I couldn't keep that this a secret anymore. It in a very public way had blown up in my face and I had a family member witness it. So I really had. to address it in some way. Tis the season. If you're giving gifts right now, you got to go check out Quince before you check anywhere else.

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join DeleteMe.com slash TDD and use promo code TDD at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is go to join deleteme.com slash TDD and enter code TDD at checkout. That's join delete me.com slash TDD code Td. We ended up going home to Atlanta. So that was a half day at the parks. And then we end up flying home and I knew that I was going to need to talk to him about this the next day because at this point I'm realizing that I don't know that I'm ever going to be able to have kids with him because knowing that he yelled at me in front of a two-year-old. I finally realized wait, he obviously has no self-control at all. And I ended up bringing up these concerns to him. So it's the next morning and I'm telling him, I am really concerned that you were able to yell at me in front of a child. And I just want to know,

would you ever yell at me in front of our children? And he ended up saying, if you deserved it. So that is when I said, well, then I won't be having kids with you because I knew that I would never put a child through that. No. I love you for that. I know. But that must have been really scary because I'm scared right now. Yeah, it was. And he, I said, you know, I won't have kids with you then. And then he ended up charging at me. And he strangled me for the last time. And it was a lot worse than the first time after I couldn't swallow without pain for like 10 days. It was very scary. And oh my God. He ended up stopping. And then I said, please leave. And he's like, well, I'll just call the call. cops on myself. He's acting like a victim again. And I said, just, I said, I'm going to turn myself in.

Oh, I hate it. And he used to say stuff like that. Well, I'll just call the cops on myself. And I was like, can you just leave? Just go get the grocery that we need. And I will talk to you later. I really need time alone. And I'm scared of you right now. So he ended up leaving. And this is the first time that I really realized that I just didn't feel like I could call anybody in my life. I didn't feel like I could call anybody in my family because I knew once you say something like that, nobody is going to let you stay with them, you know, or they're not going to support it and they're not going to probably play nice with them. So I ended up calling the domestic violence hotline. And I think the reason I thought about them is, I don't know. I think maybe I

red chicken soup for the soul growing up. And I remember they would add the hotlines in there. And at the time, I was like, well, maybe that would be a good way to go because I can talk to somebody who has no idea who I am. It will not directly affect my life. And I can kind of just like shout it to the void. And it completely changed my life. I cry every time I talk about it. Because I was just alone in Atlanta and I ended up calling and I got through to this lady and it wasn't even like the most life-changing conversation. Like she was just, she was just there for me. And I was sitting in my kitchen looking at the walkway to make sure that he wasn't going to walk up because I knew he'd be so mad if he knew that I called him. Yeah. And I told her what happened. And I know it sounds so

stupid, but I genuinely still did not know if I was in an abusive relationship because everything felt so counterbalanced with the good things that he would do for me. And it wasn't always scary. Like, we're still watching TV shows together. We're still going on dates. We're still having good time. So I was just very confused because I felt like abuse had to look like a specific thing. I thought that abuse looked like black eyes and a bunch of bruises. And to that point, I had to had not had bruises, really, or anything like that, although he had, well, that's not true. There was one time that he body slammed me. That was bad. But I mean, it was, you know, just times where it would be very good and then it would be very bad. So I'm on the phone with her and I'm telling her,

you know, I don't know if I'm in an abusive relationship. And she said, well, can I take you through a list of questions and you just tell me yes or no to these questions? So she ended up reading me like 14 or 15 questions. And a lot of them were like, has he ever put his hands on you? Has he ever called you this name? Have you ever felt fearful? And has he ever withheld money from you? And at the end, she ended up telling me that I had said yes to, I think, like, 11 or 12 of the 13 or 14 questions.

Wow. And for me personally, that's what I needed. I needed data in my face to be like, this is the question. questionnaire and this is what the results say and what you are experiencing is abuse and it's like getting a diagnosis yeah and i started to defend him i said you know but he's not bad all the time and i remember her telling me well if he was that all the time he knows you would never stay and that really hit me it made me realize how much of this is just a show to keep me here and i wish that I could talk to that domestic violence hotline person because I ended up hanging up on her

because he ended up walking up the path. And I said, I have to go. He's coming back. And I hung up on her. And I wish that I could tell her what a difference she made. And, you know, I have shared a lot about my story on TikTok and stuff. And it's been really cool and healing to see comments from people who work for these hotlines. And they were saying, I love hearing your story because I worked with these hotlines for years and I genuinely never know if I'm doing anything for any of these people. Wow. Yeah, you don't think they're not like staying with your case. Yeah. Yeah, they can't follow you. It's anonymous. So they have no way to know if they made an impact, you know? And that lady, I was probably just one of many, many calls she took that day. But she completely changed my life.

And she was great about not telling me that I had to do anything. And I think that that's something that's really important is. Yeah, can I, is it okay? I don't know how much you're willing to share, but I would love to know when you called, if you're comfortable with it, what you said or what you shared and how she responded that made you feel comfortable. I think that she, she didn't try to tell me what to do. She was just telling me that it was dangerous that he had put his hands around my throat, like obviously. To kind of solidify your feeling. Like a validation. Valia. That, validation that it was serious. And one thing, and I don't think I've ever shared this before, but I had had a lot of shame

in this relationship. And there was a time where I think it was the year that I left, there was a time where he was being so abusive and he ended up making fun of people in my family who had been sexually abused. He was a terrible person. So he would say, you're just like, you're just a victim. like everybody else in your family and he would like mock our abuse. And during that time, I ended up, this is the only time I ever did anything in our entire marriage. I got up and I pushed

him. And that is when he picked me up and then he body slammed me. And, you know, now that I've educated myself, I know that he was trying to get a rise out of me. But at the time, I felt so much shame because he ended up telling me, if we ever got divorced, I would tell everybody that you're abusive to. I would tell everybody that you're- Because now he can use it against you. Yeah. And you can now look at when he does things like that and he can twist it on you and be like, well, we're the same, but you're not. Yes. And that's what he would do. He would be like, well, you're just as bad as me because of that one time. And I also felt emotionally blackmailed because I felt like he would go slander my name to everybody if we ever got divorced.

And one thing that the domestic violence lady, it was so powerful. You know, I told her about that. I said, well, I'm not perfect. There was this one time. And I said, but he says that he would tell everybody. And she told me, you don't know how common that is. She said, so many women call me and tell me that they've done one thing and they think that they're as bad as these men, you know? And I think hearing her not judge me was one of the

biggest things that she did for me, that it was a very common response and a very common thing that abusers try to get you to do. That way they can use it against you. So yeah, I think her just telling me that I didn't have to do anything, that she was just there to listen and provide education. The more there just someone's there to listen is the most important thing. Not telling you, oh, you need to get out or what to do, like you said. So I think that's great for you sharing that. Thank you so much. Of course. And I also just love that your story's going to inspire other people to make that call. Thank you. I love the domestic bounce holland. I talk about them all the time because, I mean, what I love to is it wasn't, not that there's anything wrong with

having an emotionally charged beautiful conversation, but it wasn't even all that. Like, honestly, Like we didn't hang up the phone being best friends or like feeling anything like that. It was just, she was exactly what I needed at that time and she was there for me, you know. And I end up calling my mom and they all had the perfect reaction, which this is just, I got lucky because none of them knew how to respond or the right ways to respond, but they just did it naturally. And they all told me that I just needed to come home for a little bit. They said, maybe you can come home, just get some space for a while. If you guys want to go to counseling later, you can always do that. But the first step is to come home. And. Wow. So they weren't like

leave him immediately. And I think had they been like leave him immediately, I would have gotten really defensive because when you're married, especially in these religious circles, it's so like you're supposed to be team your marriage. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We are on an island. And I really felt like I owed him protection of his image. And I think the thing, too, is a lot of people, they're like, well, why didn't you say something sooner? That's such a common question. Like, why did these women not say anything sooner? The truth is, I wasn't going to say anything until I was ready to leave. Thank you. That's exactly. Because then it tarnishes their image. And then y'all are going to judge me for staying with him. If I wanted our marriage to work, I felt like I really had to

protect him and make it easy for everyone to love him. The night that he had strangled me for the first time, I did tell him that if he ever did that again, that I would leave him. And I wish that I had stuck to that. I didn't, obviously. I did leave the second time that he strangled me. But there were other times where he, one time we were at Disney and he almost broke my finger. And there were other times where he was physically abusive. But in my mind, I felt like if you didn't leave when he strangled you, you can't leave when he sprains your finger. Like, you can't do that. It felt like I couldn't leave for anything less extreme. So in a way, when he strangled me the second time, I felt a little relieved because it felt like, okay, now's my opportunity. Now I can leave.

So I ended up telling him that I was going to go back home. And thankfully, he let me, he definitely thought that we were still going to be together. He thought that it was a short-term separation. But he was just happy that I didn't call the cops on him because I think he did know a felony, you know, and he could get in some serious trouble for that. So he was just happy that I didn't call the police. And he said that I could go. and he ended up dropping me off at the airport.

I think it was the next day. Wow. I ended up kissing him goodbye. And I remember when I kissed him, it wasn't like this romantic thing. I genuinely remember thinking, I'm probably never going to see you again. And this is a goodbye to this phase of my life.

Like I'm most likely not coming back. And I ended up filing for divorce a while after. This all happened right before COVID. So I left at the end of January. I came back. I told him that I wanted a divorce over the phone. And he ended up, you know, sobbing, trying to get me to change my mind. And when I told him like, hey, I'm really, I'm not changing my mind. He immediately stopped crying. So I think he was just laying it on. Yeah, he sure was. Actor. So I came back like two days before COVID hit, filed for two. divorce and I was able to get divorced over Zoom. And, you know, I, I just, for COVID for that. I can't even imagine. Yeah, I lucked out with the timing so much and I just feel so thankful. And you know, maybe God's plan did. No, I don't know. No, maybe. I still find

myself over spiritualizing everything. I mean, it's, it's, I get why it was so easy to do that throughout the whole thing because it is so easy because you want to believe good things and you want to believe that he's looking out for you and you don't want to believe that this is part of it. Can I ask a question? How do you feel about religion now as a whole? Has what he has done kind of turned you away? Or are you like, no, this is still my experience and he is still my experience? My relationship with religion is very different, but it's, it was already kind of going

that way when I was in my relationship with him. I do still consider myself to be a Christian. And I credit a lot of that to my now husband. I am actually remarried. And I love it. Yeah, I ended up meeting my husband very shortly after. And we dated for two years and then he proposed. So we have been together four and a half years now.

And one thing that he has been huge on is that he has really saved my relationship with God in a lot of ways. because being able to be with somebody who he has no religious trauma. He is Catholic. He didn't believe any of the crazy things. He was not in this culty sector. And he's very much the type of person who's like, well, I love God and God loves other people. And that's it. You know, like his faith is super basic. And I needed that. I needed something uncomplicated. So honestly, I hate talking about theology. I'm not interested. I don't, not interested in being in ministry, not interested in any of that. And being able to be with my husband, he's like such a liberal man feminist and seeing that he loves God and that that's okay, you know, that he can be. And you take the good of that.

Yeah. He just loves people in a real way. And I think that that's how I've been able to maintain my relationship with God is just. just by keeping it like very basic and simple. But when I did leave, I think talking with him about everything that had happened was the first time I realized that I had been in a cult. Because talking with him, his name's Bran, you know, Brandon, but talking with Bran and just telling him like everything that I went through, all of these crazy things that Bethel believed in, believing you can live forever and raising people from the dead and all of that. It sounded so crazy coming out of my mouth. And it was the first time that I realized, like,

wait, I'm insane. Like, or wait, the culture that I have been a part of for so long is very interesting and it's not the norm. I'm imagining you going back and forth on like the differences in your services and whatnot. And he's like, yeah, nope, that's actually not every Christian. No, and like Bethel, they would do like these things called fire tunnels where people are on the floor and they're like manifesting in the spirit. Like it was weird, you know, and it was a very strange experience. And going to his Catholic Mass has been very healing because it's so simple and it's so chill and I really enjoy it. And I think just saying all of those things out loud,

I started to realize that this was not real, like the cult that I was involved in. And that leads me to when I ended up getting on my phone and I started to Google this profit. So I... The original profit that said, do you believe... Okay, so what happened was? So the OG profit had been so highly respected, but I was still trying to rationalize, like, how do I rationalize that with my experience of,

I married someone who literally almost killed me, and it was supposedly God's woe. So I Google him, and a bunch of articles come up on how he is a con artist. Of course. Who gets all of his information off of the internet and Facebook. And looking back, I 100% know that my relationship with Ted was public on Facebook. The fact that I worked at tomato pie cafe was also on Facebook. and that there was nothing special at all about anything that he said. And there are so many stories of people saying, like, there was one woman.

She said that she had gotten called out and he was like, I see that you have four children. But she actually had five. And one of them just wasn't on her Facebook. Oh, my God. Yeah. That's hilarious. Like, she realized there's no trace of my one child on my Facebook, but he was so sure that I had four children. and he's been called out by even Bethel. Apparently Bethel no longer associates with him and a lot of other people in these ministry circles, they have called him out for being a con artist. And he still has over 200,000 followers on Instagram. Like people really love this guy. And I was like, oh my gosh, I just had so much of my public stuff on Facebook. I didn't realize. So I think the first time I realized that is when I was just, I finally realized that none of this was God.

will ever, that this was all just a con and I unfortunately fell for it because he just had such a stamp of approval from everybody in the circle that I had no reason to second guess him at the time. But obviously it just is absolutely crazy. When I looked up the prophet and realized that he was a con artist and I was finally seeing so many stories that sounded like mine, I didn't feel angry until later. I think that that came later. My initial reaction was relief because to that point, I still thought that this prophecy was real. And I remember my therapist, she was amazing because she's having to work with me where I am in this very culty mindset and I'm still trying to figure out what I believe. And I remember telling her about this prophecy and, you know, saying that it was God's will and I don't know how to leave when this was God's will.

And she said the perfect thing to me. She said, well, maybe it was God's will, but he messed it up. And maybe it was God's will that you guys were supposed to be together, but we all have free will and he destroyed it. You know, so I had been in that mindset where I was rationalizing, okay, he just messed it up. And there's nothing I can do about that. But when I realized that he was a con artist, I felt so very. relieved that it was not real because then I knew that I was 100% okay to get divorced. Like there was no even little thought in the back of my head that I thought that I owed him

my forgiveness or I owed him being married to him, you know? And I did feel angry afterwards. And I think that that's something that I'm still working through. Like as I actually, I don't even know if I've really gotten to anger yet fully. You know, like I've told the story and I've talked about it. And I don't know if I've even grasped how actually terrible that is. Because I think coming outside of the cult, I just have realized how messed up a lot of these systems are. And I've just had so many other things to work through first. But it is crazy how he pretty much single-handedly could have been responsible for me dying. And I'm sure he has a lot of trauma on his hands, basically. off of these prophetic words that he gives. There was a girl, after I've done a couple of podcasts, one girl reached out to me and she wanted to talk to me because her friend is also involved with a culty church and involved in these prophetic spaces and her friend is in an abusive marriage.

And she said that a bunch of people started giving her prophetic words saying that her and her husband needed to move to such and such state. But it's, it's something that they had already said they wanted to do. They've said, they've always said, oh, we really want to go there. So all of these church members are trying to support them and say, well, God showed me a picture of you being in the state and that you guys are going to bring so much hope to this state. And her friend now feels like she cannot get divorced because she has received so many prophetic words that her and her husband are going to bring change in this area. And it's like, even if you think it's harmless,

even if you think you're just affirming what somebody is already decided, you have no idea what is going on behind closed doors. And people take those prophecies very seriously. Like I have had people ask me, what do I think about prophecy now? Do I think that God speaks to people? And I don't know. All I know is I hate it. You know, I don't think anyone should ever do it.

because I just think that there's too much harm to be done in that space. So where my life has been is, you know, I am remarried. I'm back out living here with family. Love that for you. Yeah. You live near family still. Okay, good. Yeah, near family.

And I've also just been posting a lot about domestic violence and doing that sort of work online. And post-divorce, my thoughts on Ted had just been that he would. an angry man who could not control his emotions. I was not thinking, yeah, like I wasn't thinking he is this crazy, horrible, insane con artist or anything like that. I'm just thinking he, you know, was a man who couldn't control his emotions and I'm thankful that I walked out alive. Well, I ended up finding out because I did some podcasts and was posting some stuff and I started to really look back on my relationship with Ted during this time just because I had been talking about it. So it was like front of

mind. And I thought about how he had dated that girl Sarah. Yes. Sarah from the coffee shop. From the coffee shop who I had met. So he had always told me, which red flag guys, he had always told me that she was absolutely insane. He said, Sarah. Red flag, they called their ex crazy. I did not know that that was a red flag at the time. I mean, I was young. Yeah, you were like 19, right? Yeah, like 20s. So at the time, I was just like, oh, that's a bummer. And he said, well, she was totally crazy. And she had told me during an argument that I was a coward who would never amount to anything. And at the time, I was like, wow, what a terrible thing to say to somebody. You know, so my opinion of Sarah was not that high. I did not think that she was great. So I had never

reached out to her. But after having read books on domestic violence and stuff like that, I was like, I really wonder what Sarah's side of this story might be. And she had ended up friending me a couple years ago on Facebook. She never said anything, but she had been liking some of my posts with my husband. So I was like, okay, well, she's open to knowing me. So maybe I should reach out. So after like a glass of wine, I decided to reach out. Why not? I was like liquid courage. I said, hi, I was just wondering if you would be interested in telling me your side of the story with Ted just because I've always been curious.

And she was like, I would love to talk about that. I would love to tell you what happened. What did she say? Okay. This is where it gets crazy. She says, we're a kids crazy. Yeah, what are you talking? I need a move for Sandy.

We're going to go on a roller coaster. No. She told me that they had actually been dating up until December. So remember how I said that they had broke up during the summer? No, they had been dating that entire year. And she actually said, she said, I don't actually know if we were dating him at the same time. She said, I think maybe we were, she said, best case scenario, he broke up with me to get with you. So she said that when I came to town and when I had moved there from Bethel, he would always ditch her to come and talk to me.

So at the church, whenever I would walk in the door, she said he would leave my side to go talk to you. And I don't remember that. But I mean, I believe her because he did come and talk to me. And apparently he was just extremely disrespectful to. her and really was not being a good boyfriend. Yeah. Now, she told me that the month before we got together, he was house sitting for a family friend and was watching their dog and that he had invited Sarah over to hang out with him while they were house sitting. Now, I know this to be true because I remember returning the key. Like, he had housed out for these people a few times,

so I know exactly what family she is talking about. And she told me that while she was over there, in the middle of their conversation, completely out of the blue, he attacked her, jumped her to the ground. Oh my God. And tried to sexually assault her in this house.

And she said that she was able to get away and get to the bathroom. And then he eventually calmed down and she came out. And after this happened, she went straight to the church leadership the next day, and she told him, you know, Ted attacked me, and this is what he did. So she tells them what he has done, and they did not believe her. No! No! Yeah. That's heartbreaking. I wish I was surprised. Yeah, right? And essentially, they just believed him because he was such a prized person in this ministry. And a man. And a man. And a man. and they demoted her in the ministry.

She was kind of getting to a higher place of the leadership, and they ended up demoting her. And not only that, but like... People want to ask why women don't come forward? I know. This is why. Yeah. And they did not warn me, which is absolutely insane.

Like, looking back on it, I am so furious. And this is all fresh information for me. I mean, I just found this out probably in September. the fact that they knew that he had these assault allegations against him, and nobody thought to say anything to the 20-year-old who is trying to date. It is so disgusting. And she has just been carrying this for a very long time and was very ready to tell her story. To the point where when I had gone on, I went on a couple podcasts this year,

and she said that on one of my podcasts, she sent it to the church leadership this year. And she said, look, I was not crazy. This is what he ended up doing to Jubilee. And some of the leadership did write her back and apologized. They said that they were sorry and that they were blinded by Ted. But some of them have still left her on red and have never given her an apology for not believing her. Oh, my God. So that also explains why all of her stuff was at the house was because they,

were together up until she probably didn't want to go get it yeah and then it's terrible she said that once we started dating this is so gross he would go around and tell everybody that i was his disney princess jasmine oh my god makes me want to throw up so he was going around and saying that i was like his disney princess gift from god which is sick this next part is when i realized that i never knew him at all. So remember, he had said that he had waited to have sex until he got married and that he was very pure. He was big on his purity all about that. To this day, I don't know if he was a virgin. I really don't know. But what I do know is Sarah told me that he was hitting up the strip clubs multiple times a week out in Pennsylvania to the point where she said that he had a favorite

stripper named Delilah that he would go visit multiple times a week. While he was with both of you? Yes. Delilah. Okay. How did she find that out? He ended up admitting it to her. Yeah, while they were dating. And he was like, yeah, I go there. And she, yeah, it was just insane. She was like trying to, I think she was trying to be cool. She was like, oh, maybe I should go with you or something. And he was like, you wouldn't like it. So, I mean, I had a, in my mind that he was some dude who really cared about his purity. And little did I know that he was taking all of this money that he was getting from his parents and like giving it to freaking Delilah

over there. Well, good for Delilah. McKenzie's face right now is amazing. She looks like she is smelling the worst fart you can imagine. Disgusting. Disgusting. What a liar. So he's just honestly, such a con. Because I'm like, he was not at all who he presented him. himself to be. I thought I was getting someone so different at the time. And looking back on our marriage, there are a couple of red flags that I ignored because I really thought that he was this pure guy. Like, in my mind, he waited 30 years to have sex. Like, why would he ever cheat on me? Because he would always tell me, too, that I was out of his league. So in my mind, I'm like, well, why would he cheat on me? He seems like he's obsessed with me. He seems like he loves me. But I will say that he

sometimes would not go to work. There was one time where he was a substitute teacher here in Texas, and there was a time where I caught him lying about going to work. So he would get all dressed up as if he was going to go be a substitute teacher, and I ended up catching him in a lie that he didn't go. He left the house for like nine hours, pretended to work, and then came home. Where did he go? Probably to a strip club. Probably. How did you find out? It was because on his online login on his laptop, you could see where they're picking up their shifts. And I saw that he didn't have a shift that day. And when I asked him, he was like, oh, yeah, I didn't go. So yeah, to this day, I do not know what he was doing. And I don't know how often he was doing that. And when that happened, what, what, like, how did you feel about moving past it? I just started looking more at the online thing because I really didn't trust him. And I really didn't trust him. And, what, what, what, what, like, how did you feel about moving past it? I. I was, I just started looking more at. I. I just started looking more at. I. I. I was. I was. I him, you know, but the thing, too, with this religious abuse, it's like, well, I apologized and I said I was sorry, so you need to forgive me. You know, so he would say, you know, it's really not my business

to check anymore. He resented the fact that I kind of monitored his work when it came to the substitute teaching. But I tried to just shove it to the side and move past it. Yeah. And when we were living in Atlanta. He was working as an Uber driver. And there was one day when he ended up coming home. And I think he was in the shower at the time. And I looked at his phone. And this was not something where we weren't allowed to look at each other's phones. It was, it was very common. You don't got to, you don't got to explain. Yeah, you don't have to defend yourself. We did it. We did what we did. I don't take it back. I'm like, some people hate that, but I was, it was just a thing. We had each other's passwords. And I saw that he got a text from this girl Crystal, and she was like, hi, this is Crystal from earlier.

So I ended up asking him, like, who is this girl? Because in our marriage, we didn't really talk to the opposite sex. We had strict boundaries. You weren't even allowed to have dinner with your dad. Yeah, literally. So, I mean, I was like, who is this Crystal girl? But also in my mind, I'm like, he would never cheat on me. He acts like he's so obsessed with me. But I wanted to know who she was. and he said that there was a girl that he had driven earlier that day through Uber and that she had lived in our apartment complex and that she had said, you just seem like such a safe, good person. And I hate using the Uber app because the Uber app, you know, you never know who you're going to get. No. I was wondering if I could give you my number and you could be my

personal Uber driver, that way you don't have to pay the Uber fees either. Ew. I can't think of a woman in my life that would ever do that. I would ever be like, you seem like a nice guy. Can I just get your number and trust you? You can be my driver. No. No. Yeah. So that was his explanation for that. And I I don't know. I thought it sounded fishy, but I really still thought he was like this good Christian guy who had saved himself for marriage. And I just could not fathom a world where he would cheat on me. And I mean, when he would go to Uber, I don't even know if he was Ubering. I didn't really see the app. I know that he had a profile. I knew enough for that. But all those hours where he was off Ubering, I mean, I don't know how many of those hours he was actually working or if he could

have been going and doing other things or cheating on me. I have no idea. There was also one day, This was crazy. There was one day when we were living in Atlanta when he ended up coming home and I found scratches on his back. Scratches. Oh my God. And guys, I was so innocent. I, it definitely raised red flags, but I was like he would never. Like, he's such a good person. He would never cheat on me. And I asked him where he got them from and he said that he had no idea. Like he had no idea where they had from. What? Scratches. I don't know. I know. I know. Backwards into a treat. No, literally. He didn't even try. He was like maybe my back was itchy and I scratched it.

That's literally what he said. I guess. He's completely symmetrical, but it's fine. Yeah, it's fine. So, yeah, now that I know all this stuff about Sarah that he was frequenting strip clubs and obviously that he has no moral compass because he tried to attack her. I don't know who he is. I do not know if he was cheating on me the entire time we were living in Atlanta.

I don't know if his entire religious facade is completely fake. Like, does he believe the things that he's saying? Or I don't know. So this leads me to, in September, I found out all of this. And I decided that I was going to go on TikTok and I was going to do a series called, Did I Marry a Psychopath? And I end up doing like, I was like, I'm going to have. series. Quick series. I did a 50 part series or something. Oh yeah. Where I just like broke down a bunch of

stuff. And as I'm doing this series, I ended up getting a DM from someone named Daisy. And it gets crazy. Okay. So Daisy is someone actually that I know and I have known since 2015. What do you mean? And Daisy actually did my hair on my wedding day to Tad. Oh, wow. So she wasn't from like Hogwarts school. She was. No, she knew him from his hometown. Oh.

So what happened was these were the family friends, okay, that he had known just growing up and they had traveled to come to the wedding. And he had told me, because remember, I was. planning this wedding from out of state. And I was trying to find a makeup artist and a hairstylist, and he said, I have a friend named Daisy and she can do your hair for the wedding. So I literally got ready for my wedding day to Ted at Daisy's house. Now, I did not remain in contact with anybody from that time, really. Like when we ended up getting divorced, I had unfriended a lot of people from the cult because a lot of them just were not very supportive or, I don't know, I just didn't feel

safe around them anymore. So I had unfriended Daisy and a bunch of those people who I knew through Ted. Now, Daisy during this last year, so 2024, she had found my TikTok and she had been watching my videos for a while. And I had seen that she'd been watching my videos and she'd even liked some of them that were against Ted. And that surprised me because I thought that they were still friends. What's going on with that? So Daisy reaches out to me and she said, hey, if you are open to it, here's my number. I have so much to tell you. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I had just gotten out of therapy, right? So my hands are shaking and I immediately just called her. And she answered and she was like, I have so much to tell you about what has been going on since you guys got divorced.

Oh, good. Okay, so it's like the update. It's not that she was doing anything on your wedding. It's both. Okay. No, never mind. Not about the wedding, but here's what happened. Okay, she ends up telling me that he had moved back to their home state after we got

divorced. And I was under the impression that he was going to tell everybody what he did. And this was because we had mutual friends in Atlanta and he had actually gone. and he had actually gone to them and cried to them and said, you know, I did this to Jubilee and I hope she takes me back. And he had seemed very sorry, which made it hard to leave him because I was fully convinced that he was trying to take responsibility for his actions, but that I just wasn't willing to risk my life. So Daisy tells me that he moved back to their home state and he went around and told everybody that I was a narcissist who abused him. and that he only ever acted in self-defense against me. Oh my God. Yeah. And she said, you know, I didn't really like fully believe him.

I thought maybe he was being dramatic because I know that you always seemed so sweet when I met you. But that is what he said about you. And that's what everybody in our home state thinks. They think that you were the reason that you guys got divorced. And I was so taken aback by that because he followed through. He followed through on what he said he was going to do, which he said that he was going to tell everybody that it was me. So they ended up just hanging out more and more because you have to remember, they have been family friends since I think 2007. She has known him a very long time because Ted used to go to her dad's church.

Okay. Got it. So they also have the church ties. Yes, church ties. And there's another couple that she's related to. So he's kind of friends of this entire large family. And they were all just trying to be nice to him when he came back. Because obviously he got divorced and he's sad. So he starts volunteering at their church. And this is when tragedy really strikes for Daisy. And I feel so bad for everything that she has had to go through because in 2020, her dad, the pastor, ended up passing away from COVID. And then her brother-in-law and law ended up passing away from cancer. And then her husband, who she had been with since she was a teenager and had five kids with, ended up passing away from cancer. Oh my God. And this all happened

in a year or a year and a half. And she was in such a low place. Like imagine losing the three big men in your life. That's unreal. And, you know, I was so heartbroken for her. And I was so heartbroken for her when her husband, Chris, passed away because, you know, they were just like such a perfect couple. And Chris had actually been in our wedding. He was a groomsman in the wedding. So Ted was really good friends with the husband. So after these family members pass away, she's obviously going through a very hard time. And I do want to say real quick, remember, Ted is 10 years older than me. Daisy is roughly 10 years older than Ted. Okay? Oh, wow. So she is 20 years older than me. She was more of a mother figure to me when I knew her. Yeah. And she's just going through this very hard time after these losses. And Ted

swoops in and tries to love bomb her. But he ends up swooping in and he starts taking care of her for pretty much an entire year. He starts doing her laundry, her dishes, doing her grocery shopping. And he was tucking her in at night and praying over her before bed and was just acting like a total night and shining armor. And she was not really into him, but she decided to give him a chance because she was just in a very dark place. And in her mind, she was thinking, I've already had the one true love of my life, but maybe I could have a companion with Ted. So she ends up agreeing to see how things will go because he professed his love to her. And he started promising her the world.

He was like, I'm going to take you on a European vacation. I'm going to take care of you. And she told him, okay, let's just see how things go. I'm open to dating. So after a year of being on his best behavior, literally like the week that she agrees to give him a chance, he turns abusive. And imagine how evil you have.

to be like this woman has lost so many people in her life and he proceeds to torment her for a year which by the way just so everybody knows they both are okay with me telling this story i i asked them both and they were like yes tell it so there was a situation where they were in her house and he ended up screaming at her and then he shattered this lamp that she loved and shattered it on her floor. He started telling her that she was a narcissist. He started calling her a whore. And she said that there was a time where he came to her work and threw a chair in the middle of her work. Yeah. And hearing her story, I think that he's gotten worse because Ted was pretty able to keep it just between the two of us. But it feels like something is just super off and that he has like really

let these tendencies get the best of him. I mean, he sounds like more panicked in a way. Like he's lost a lot at this point because of this behavior. And it's almost like that makes him even more controlling or holding on tighter. Yeah. So he's just, it's been ramp, it had been ramping up a lot. And finally, she said that he would look like a different person when this would happen. Like there would be a different look in his eyes during this time.

and she was going back and forth on if she was going to continue talking to him. And she kept telling me on the phone, I was so stupid. But I think when you're in such a dark place, everything's confusing. I can't really imagine having lost so many people, like the just fog that you were in. Yeah. That's why he went for her. Yeah. So there was one final situation, which I feel.

like it is her version of the Disney World Burger story because it is equally ridiculous. And so there was a situation where she was going to go with her daughter and her grandchild on a business trip to South Carolina. Now, Ted said, that's so crazy. I'm also going to South Carolina that weekend. And he said, so while I'm there, we should hang out. So she agrees. She's like, okay, I guess we'll hang out while we're in South Carolina since we're going to be across the country at the same time. So there was a time where she is with her grandchild who was two years old and they decided that they were going to go to this outdoor shopping center. And when they got there, he said, okay, why don't you go inside the Starbucks and I just have to use the restroom real quick? And then we can get a drink and then we'll

walk around. She's like, okay, sounds great. So she goes into the Starbucks and she's sitting there forever. and it takes him so long to come to the Starbucks. And she has no idea what's going on to the point where she's like looking at the watch, like what has happened, where has he gone? You fall in? Literally, to the stage, she has no idea what he was doing. But when he came into the Starbucks, he said, let's go. And he looked really pissed and really angry.

And she had had no idea what's going on. So she said, wait, I thought you said that we were going to get a drink. and he lost it on her in the middle of this Starbucks. He started screaming at her. He called her the C word in the middle of this Starbucks in front of her two-year-old grandchild. Ha! Yeah. And she has no idea why he's mad.

All she said was, I thought we were going to get a drink because she has been waiting there this entire time to get this drink. And he is just exploding on her in the middle. of this Starbucks. So she's like, okay, I just need to get to the car. I need to get back to the So she grabs her grandchild and she starts walking to the car. But she is dependent on him because this is his rental car. She doesn't, she doesn't have a car. And the rental car has her grandchild's car seat. And she's like, I can't call an Uber because I don't have anything to put my grandchild in. So she just walks to the car and she's like, if I can just get back to the hotel. So he unlocks the door and right as she is about to open the door, he locks it and he says,

Find your own way home to her. And I remember that he used to do stuff like this to me too. I had actually forgotten until she told me the story, but he would do stuff like that, like lock it at the last second kind of as like an F you. Like you humiliate you. Yes. So he's just screaming at her outside of this car and all of a sudden like a woman walks up. And I think that she was actually going to defend Daisy. Finally, someone stepping into help.

And he ended up unlocking the car because he didn't want to talk to this lady. So he's like, get in. So she gets in the car and she's trying to put her grandchild in the car seat. So she's in the back and he sits down and he takes the rearview mirror and he pushes it down so that he isn't able to look at her in the mirror. And he says, I can't even look at you. You're so effing disgusting. Ew. And she still has no idea what's going on.

So at this point, he ends up flipping the mirror back up. And she said that she ended up looking at him. And she said, I feel really bad for Jubilee. And he did not like that, obviously. That would cut him deep. Because at this point, she realized everything that you said is probably not true. And you were the one who was abusive to her. Yep.

And she was able to get back to the hotel, but pretty much after that, they haven't spoken. And I think just hearing all of this from Sarah and hearing this from Daisy, I have finally realized that I just did not ever know this guy. I cannot believe that I ended up marrying someone so crazy. And I don't know what's going on with him. And she did tell me that there was a situation where she was over at Ted's house because remember Ted is still living. with his dad. Right. And he ended up exploding on Daisy in front of his dad. So now I know that his parents are aware of how he is. And the dad ended up following Daisy out of the house because, you know, Ted's screaming and she's like, I need to get out of here. So she starts walking to the car.

And Ted's dad followed her. And he said, I'm so sorry, Daisy. He's always been this way. And we have no idea what is wrong. Oh my God. And I have a lot of complicated feelings. I've had a lot of people ask me, you know, what do you think about Ted's parents now? Because when I left, I just, I still loved them. I still viewed them as second parents to me. But knowing now that they knew his entire life that there was something really wrong and that he had these problems and that nobody warned me, it is very hard to. I imagine. Oh, my God. And it's hard because I think it's, a way they're victims of him too. Sure.

Yes, they should have protected me, but there was even, when I ended up leaving, Ted, I ended up having a phone call with his mom. And she cried on the phone and she begged me to stay with him. Yeah. And it was very... Really? She did. And it was...

Did you tell her? Yes. Even every... Oh, my God. I said, what do you want me to do? He strangled me. I don't want to die. And she was like, please, please.

Maybe he can... get help and it's it's hard because I know that's infuriating like I can only imagine that everybody listening is like eff that and awesome like 100% absolutely that was so inappropriate I just think his mom was such an emotional person like she couldn't help herself like in a way she just didn't want to lose me and it's sad you know I feel yeah I feel bad but finding out all of this stuff I have realized that I never really knew anything about him and there is is a lot of frustration at the church. The fact that this fake prophet con artist guy conned me into marrying him and then the church just completely failed Sarah that they didn't believe her

and that they let all of this slip through the cracks. Like it is so dangerous what they did, all of them. So dangerous. Yeah. You know, and they're lucky that all three of us are alive and okay, you know, because they really failed all of us in a way. But yes, that is the crazy story. I cannot. Oh, my God. Oh, Jubilee. It was a lot. So I've been sharing a lot because I think for me, I did not know the signs to look for. I didn't know what I was experiencing. How question? They don't teach you that stuff. I know they don't. And I wish little plug here, everybody should read the book. Why does he do that by letting me? D. Bancroft. It's so good. We started a book club. You should read it. It's called Why Did He Do That? Or why does he do that? Why does he do that? It's a great resource for domestic violence. I read it when I left Ted. And I think it's called, Why Does He Do That Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men? And it's written by a man who used to do group

therapy with abusers. Oh my gosh. I'm looking it up. And it's very well regarded in domestic violence circles. They tell pretty much all survivors to read it because it really helps you make sense of what you went through. I think it is the number one reason why I was able to leave and not go back because once I read it, it was so transparent. I was like, wow, he is textbook abusive. And he basically says after working with abusive men, he noticed all of these thought patterns like, why do men do these things? and the manipulation tactics that they use. So that's really when I finally realized, like, oh, the sleep deprivation, that was a tactic. Him trying to bait me into putting my hands on him. That was a tactic. And it all made so much sense. So I really wish that they made girls read that in high school.

I think it would be so valuable because a lot of people, they just don't know what they are going through until they see other people share their stories or they read it. I'm so grateful for you sharing your story. And I say this every time, but the story that you tell is going to impact someone else who says, oh my gosh, that's me. And they're going to have that sense of community that's going to help them. Someone is going to be impacted positively. I'm just, I'm really grateful for you sharing. Like it's so brave of you. Yeah. That's my whole goal. I've really just been trying to do that. And it's been so humbling. I get lots of messages from people. And I've been able to. Good. Get people to call the domestic violence hotline and, you know, it. And shout out to the domestic violence hotline workers who don't get closure or perhaps you were just there for someone.

Like, you, Jubilee has made it perfectly clear that you changed her life. And that's really amazing. So thank you for what you do. Yeah. It's such a thankless job because you don't get to see the follow up. You don't get the warm fuzzies of seeing the difference that you make. But they definitely do. Like, I've talked to so many people who have been affected by it.

So. Thank you so so much. I'm so grateful for you. Oh, my gosh. I can't even imagine. And I'm so happy that you're remarried. Yes, he's the best. It's a happy ending.

He's the best. I post about him all the time. I make corny montage videos. We're all going to go stock and fall. I mean, sleuth. I'm not allowed to say that. Instagram sluice. Yes.

Oh, my gosh. No, I'm just so proud of you, too. Thank you. You're amazing. Thank you so so much. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate you guys so much. That's so much to swallow, right? So much. I'm so glad she's okay. You guys, first of all, Jubilee told her story, right? Like, she was here to tell her story, and I'm glad that she used her voice and told her story. Like, good on her. She's made it like a part of her platform. Yeah, yeah. Tell, like, say it loud. Talk about it loud because the more we talk about it, the more. the more people learn about it, the more educated way are, the more aware. It's all awareness, right? Yeah, there's a lot to talk about. So dogfish debrief. Ugh, this guy. Let's get into it. Fucking Ted.

Fucking Ted. That's his new legal name. Where do you want to start? I want to talk about how this guy made every happy experience that she had about him, and took all of the joy away from every experience and made it miserable for her and made it all about him. God, I mean, it seems, I know we say narcissists all the time, but that's like so narcissistic. Yeah. And, yes, textbook. Just awful. Like the whole running thing, I mean, he just couldn't stand anything not being in his control, it seems like.

He was, it's almost like he was jealous of her and wanted, like, he couldn't stand if she was better than him. Jealous of her or also if she was doing too well, she wouldn't need him. Right. Yeah. That's a control thing. Yeah. Okay. So if you notice somebody repeatedly ruining your birthdays, your graduations, your happy moments.

Every happy moment. Then that's more than a red flag. That's a flag on fire. Let's tell somebody. And telling somebody is hard as we heard. So she was the National Domestic Violence Hotline was like, I mean, I never, I never thought about how the people on that hotline don't really get resolution. As a private investigator, I work cases and there's, I mean, 99% of my case, I don't get

closed wrong. Like, I don't know what happens. And that's so hard. And that's so hard. But imagine being a worker at a hotline where these people are calling you and they're talking, this is like life or death a lot of times, maybe. And you don't know. And it's like, whatever happened to that person and you don't know, did you help them?

Did you not? What was the outcome? And that must be really hard. And so kudos to the National Domestic Violence Hotline. I just can't imagine, you all doing the Lord's work. I really hope if any of those people are listening or anyone who's ever volunteered for any kind of hotline, let this story be some solace that you've made a difference. Because she just needed somebody to validate that what she was going through is bad.

Nobody thinks it's as bad as it is in the moment and even after the fact. How many people have come on and told us horrible things that have happened to them and said, but it wasn't that bad. Yeah. But I know people have been through worse. Like it's so. And I do it too. Like I, I mean, I've talked to you about things that have happened to me.

And I'm like, I can't even call them. Like I don't feel comfortable calling myself like a survivor of sexual assault because it feels. It's hard to say those words. It's hard. Yeah. And you need other people to be like, hey, this did happen to you. your feelings are valid or your numbness is a defense. Yes.

And that's exactly why I like when people like Jubilee and our other guests share their stories, someone else can say, oh my gosh, she went through the same thing I did. This is absolutely abuse or whatever. And it'll actually spark that conversation and bring it to light that what you went through is valid. And it is something that needs to be discussed. That's why I think it's so important to continue to share our stories. Totally.

And we've talked about how we don't tell our mother. when somebody's shitty to us until we're ready to cut them loose. Because as soon as you tell your mom, at least in both of our cases, it's like, all right, they're done. Like, there's no going back from that. She talked a lot about that where she didn't want to tell people in her life because she wasn't ready to leave. She didn't want them to think badly of him, of her, if she stayed.

And then in a way, she kind of asked herself along with his isolation because of that. And I mean, we talk about how to be a friend of somebody going through a relationship like this. But I think it's, I don't know. Like, how do we make ourselves available to people without them feeling like we would be upset? Yeah, we've learned that you can't make them feel stupid. Like, oh, how could you be in a relationship? This is obviously a bad idea. Like, to them it's not.

And the thing also with the public humiliation, like the, like Ted, humiliated her in public and embarrassed her to make her feel little. Like he wanted to make her feel small. And so those things really take a toll on your psyche. They wear down your confidence in yourself when someone humiliates you like that and you're afraid to say anything. He would embarrass her. Like, it was awful. And then, okay, this is another topic. The sleep deprivation and then like taking advantage of her disability and blushing her sleeping pills down the total. toilet. That's physical abuse, no doubt. Like, that's, I, I'm like, livid. It is never someone else's decision when it comes to our body and our medication and what we're doing, like, medically. And it's

hard for me to talk on because I don't know anything about anything medical, right? But I do know when you're struggling to sleep and you need sleep meds or you have fibromyalgia and you're, this is your only way to escape pain. That is a huge, like, they could never lay a hand on you. That That is so abusive, so manipulative. It's disgusting. I don't know why I'm so sick to my stomach over that. Like that... Oh, I...

Well, because it's like going a... You're affecting this whole person's body without laying a hand on them. Well, you just put it great where it's like they don't have the right to make any decision about you and your health. And they not only did that, but also did so in a way that primes you for more abuse because sleep deprivation is a... tactic. Yes. And then hurts you. I mean, it's just he should go to jail. Well, sleep deprivation also, like, I don't know if you guys have ever, for someone to manipulate you into not sleeping, that takes a toll, number one, mentally, but number two, physically, your body wants to sleep, right? So imagine the, the torment that your body goes through when you

can't sleep when your body wants to. Like, I don't know if you ever thought about that, but. Have I thought about it? I mean, I've never fortunately been in a position where a partner was depriving my sleep. But I do think back to college where I had the least about of sleep and the worst health in my life. And I was sat all the time. I mean, I had a good effect. It affects you. But like, I thought, you know, I looked back and a couple years later, I was like, oh, you were just tired all the time. Like, that's why your face was puffy. Like, girl, chill. But it makes you not yourself. I also didn't like how he always said, you have to forgive me in the name of Jesus. Oh, bless it. That religious abuse is so, like you,

ugh, that's so hard too, because I grew up a Christian girl. Like, I'm Southern Baptist, right? My mom is a pastor. Like, we, I grew up in the church. So I understand. But to manipulate someone into submission by using that religious stance by saying, oh, like, you know, this is what you're not forgiving me. That's really not Christian of you. That's awful. This is totally religious manipulation, religious abuse. I don't like it. It's not nice at all. We've gotten some one specifically DM that I feel like touches on this in a good way. What does it say? Okay. I'm going to share not the name or like word for word, but the basics of a DM we got from someone who was so kind, who had recently left a space that was similar to what Jubilee described. And the episode was, you know, this was just the part one. But it was hard for them to hear. But they felt it was important pushing a marriage. and the beliefs that were just like very manipulative.

And now they left that church three years ago and then is now trying to go to church again because religion is a huge, beautiful part of their life, but they feel really on edge in religious spaces. And it broke my heart because I think, I mean, we both in different religions have beautiful relationships to those communities. But it's such an easy way to pray on unmet needs

if you have that. And I don't know, I don't know how you protect yourself or find peace in communities like that after you've been through this. But I know it's possible. So as someone who grew up in the church, I have my own relationship with God. That is, I don't push it on anybody. It was pushed on me by not my parents, but some other family members. And it was, I, it got to the point where I was like, stop pushing it on me. Like, you know, it was very frustrating. It's personal. And yeah, it is very personal. And for me, it kind of taught me that my relationship with God is mine and mine alone. Where it starts to get a little iffy for me is when we talk about like raising folks from the dead, for instance. Sure. Like they're there's, they think they're helping people. And to,

to speak on it is to say, well, your way of thinking is wrong. I'm in no position to do that at all. Like, yeah. But I do think that using that manipulation with someone who clearly doesn't have those same feelings and you're trying to push that on them, then it becomes abusive, in my opinion, and manipulative. I think that's a- You got to follow your gut on that one, though. It's fair. And also, like, values at the end of the day are what are important. And if, if a religious community is looking at a person who is a good person and practicing a value-filled life, but they don't believe exactly what you do or they're not making the same

choices that you're making and you that's bad to you that to me is the red flag it's like anytime you are like you said forcing people to do things because that's just what you're supposed to do yeah whether it's religious or otherwise it's dangerous because you lose your sense of self and i so i went to a wedding and i'm not going to say what religious wedding it was because all religions have different stuff and i mean i can speak on judaism because i'm Jewish and like Jews, we've got our stuff. Like, there's some sexism going on there that makes me frustrated. Like, all religions have good and bad.

But I was very uncomfortable with something that was said in this service that was very much about, like, you guys are going to wrong each other. You guys are going to make mistakes. You're going to get on each other's nerves. But those weren't the words. It was like, you are going to basically, he basically was like, you're going to really want to leave. And they're going to, you're going to come to your friends. and he looked at the bridesmaids and he looked at the groomsmen and he was like, and they're going to come to you and they're going to say, this person did X, Y, Z.

And you have to say, you witnessed their marriage today, you stay in it. You stay in that marriage. And I was sitting in the back like, girl, you come to me if he does something because I'm going to tell you the truth. And I'm going to tell you whether or not you have to stay in that marriage. And it made me sad that it was like, I understand the beauty of it. I understand the commitment to the hard times. And I love that. but there's a line.

I don't like the idea that like, no matter what they do, you made a commitment. No, this is not. That unconditional love, quote unquote, type of thought process, like, I love my son unconditionally. There's nothing he could do anything at all that would make me stop loving him. In a relationship where I have a choice, like whether or not I'm going to love you, like, if you fuck around, you're going to find out. Like, do you know what I mean? Yep.

Yeah. You know what it comes back to? Trust your goddamn femtuition. Trust your femtuition. And if anybody's using your belief system in a way that doesn't align with that, which I know it's hard. And no blame if you take a while to get there. But like, that's off. So yes, religious abuse is real. And we're just to make it extra clear, like we both have a lot of love for certain parts of religion and religious communities.

And we'd love to hear your experience good and bad. with navigating this because I think everybody can relate to it. It just gets sticky with religion because everybody's opinions are so different and we don't want to take the stance of like, like, this is the only way that's right. There's the only way that's wrong. Like, I know I'm, I'm not going to use my podcast to preach. I'm just not. This is not a place for it.

Well, we preach trusting your femme tuition. That's our, that's our message. Amen, sister. Amen, sister. That's our message. That's our missionary mission. Honestly, I think, hey, I like to think that that aligns with all of the religion. Although actually I go back to my sexism.

But people are really tied closely to their religion. And so to use that against someone is absolutely horrible. No. No. Oh, I have one other thing that I wanted to bring up. The bystander situation. One at Disney when she was like being berated in front of a crowd and nobody did anything, which makes me really sad.

And it made me think about how I can move through the world in a way that is more helpful. And I think I've talked about this before because obviously you don't want to like put yourself in danger or you don't always know the whole situation. But one thing I have heard people do and I've tried to do at like clubs and stuff, you know, like party situations. Just going up to somebody that looks like they're having a thing, usually a woman and being like, hey, girl, come here. Oh my God. It's good to see you or something like that. And then just being like, hey, do you know this guy? Do you feel safe?

like getting that kind of quick conversation because they might be like, yeah, I do. I'm fine. But it's still like de-escalates a little bit if something was going on. I'm not speaking. Especially if that, if the person that you think could be dangerous, they kind of get taken off. Like they know, now they see that someone's noticed and they're like, oh, crap, I better. Do you say something or do you not is the whole thing? And so then it goes back to, first of all, see something, say something, right? Like, I would rather. I would say something. I would rather say something and it be nothing than not say something and have missed an opportunity to save someone's life, right? So then it becomes tricky. What's your personality? If you're someone who's very timid and shy, you're probably not going to

say something, right? Me, I'll be like, yo, bro, what's going on? Or whatever. But then it's like, at what point is that dangerous? At what point is what you say going to put that person in danger? So it becomes really tricky. I would love to talk to someone who knows, I guess, tactical verbal techniques that you could use to like, you know, help some intervention. Yeah. That would be really kind of interesting, I think. I think that's a great idea. If you're just a bystander to what looks like an altercation of some kind. Do you say something? And what are the options, too? Because I'm sure for a shy person, maybe the option is call an employee that works there. You know what I mean? Like, maybe there are other good things that people can do that are not like getting up in his face.

I don't know. That's a good question. Let's put it out to the sleuthies. I'm just grateful that Thank you, Jubilee, for sharing your story. And you guys, please email us your stories also. We want to be a voice for you. You use our podcast as a voice, as a platform to say what you're scared to say. Share it with others who can learn from it and benefit from your experience. Our email address is investigate at the dating detectives podcast.com. You're welcome. Round of applause. Round of applause. Hannah's looking at me like she's so proud. And I'm so, I'm like she's like a proud mama. The girl. She's a proud mama. So, yeah, email us your stories. Yeah. And like we said at the beginning, Patreon is $5 a month.

And we do extra episodes. We do live streams. We started a book club. And I will tell you the book we're reading this month, which is called It's Not You by Dr. Romney de Rassula, who's a narcissist expert. I'm starting it. And I'm already thinking a lot about this episode. What's the rest of the title?

Okay, I'll look at it. It's not you. Healing from, wait, identifying and healing from narcissistic people. Okay. So, and this is, you said this is the one where they, where it's actually focused on the, the victim as opposed to the perpetrator, the narcissist, whatever. Like we're talking about the actual person who dealt with it. She obviously talks about what narcissism is and stuff, but she's a lot less interested in understanding narcissists and a lot more interested in understanding the effect they have. on survivors. She was like, as a therapist, there's a lot of teaching on how to be a therapist for narcissists, but she's like, there's not a lot of teaching on how to be a therapist for people in relationships with narcissists. So we're into that. We like that. Thank you. I like it. So send us your stories. We want to hear from you. Join the book club. Join the

Patreon. It's $5 a month. And as always, trust your friend to mission. Bye, everybody.