The Dating Detectives - The Stalker: Part 1

Episode Date: January 27, 2025

Happy Monday, Sleuthies! In this two part episode, Mackenzie and Hanna delve into a harrowing story that left them both shaken—and they’re pretty sure you’ll feel the same. January is Stalking Awareness Month, and today’s guest, Carrie, shares the terrifying reality of her experience with a dogfish who wouldn’t take no for an answer.After meeting Jack on a dating app, what started as mild interest turned into a nightmare of manipulation, harassment, and stalking. Carrie’s raw, emotional journey reveals the lengths some people will go to exert control and the gaps in the legal system that fail to protect victims of stalking.From unsettling red flags on a first date to technology hacks, home intrusions, and relentless harassment, this episode explores the chilling escalation of Jack’s behavior. Carrie’s story highlights the need for more awareness, education, and legal reform to protect stalking victims before it’s too late.Click here to join our Patreon! For only $5 a month you will get 2 extra episodes a month, monthly virtual live events, and access to our community page!If you've been dogfished and want to share your story on the show, email [e-mail] or contact us through our website using this linkThis episode of The Dating Detectives is sponsored by Dipsea. For listeners of the show, Dipsea is offering an extended 30 day free trial when you go to DipseaStories.com/ TDDThis episode is sponsored by Miracle Made. Get your incredible, temperature maintaining, silver infused sheets for 40% off, PLUS a free three piece towel set, by going to trymiracle.com/TDD and using code TDD at checkout.***The following Program contains names, places and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following Program is provided for entertainment purposes only and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances.If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 for support.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following program contains names, places, and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-723 for support. Hello. Hi, happy Monday. Hello. Y'all, I don't know where I am, what my name is, what day it is. I'm just like, what's going on. Do you know that it is January?

Just in case you weren't sure what month you're in, it is January. I don't even know what year I'm in. Well, do you know what January is? Stocking Awareness Month? A plus. Yes, it is. Thank you. See, you got something.

You're here. You're good. You're good, girl. We have a tale for you today. And I feel like this hit home for me a lot. Like I was fit to be tied hearing this story. And I'm excited for you guys to hear it. I hate saying excited.

The reason that I say excited is because I get like amped up and I feel like you're going to be just as you're going to be just as pissed as I think we both are about it. So it's it's a lot. And I wonder how many of you have gone through the same thing. I bet it's more than we realize. Well, that's a huge thing that it isn't two-parter. we're going to talk a lot at the end of the second part about many aspects of the story, but definitely stalking. I mean, you know, we started this show.

Obviously, we came up with the word dogfish. That's like an extension of catfish where you just never know who you're going on a date with. And a lot of times these stories, you take years to figure out or to find out that you're dating a dogfish. Yeah, like you could be in deep, deep relationship with this person. That's what you find out. And sometimes it's only two dates. Yep. This is a little bit of a different one. But it's so important because just like you said, McKenzie, we don't really talk about stalking enough. And it seems like it's happening way more than people know. Yeah. There's, and then there's, I feel like the stigma behind stalking has a lot to do with our lack of knowledge and lack of education of what constitutes stalking. So when I want you guys. to listen really closely to our guest today and just, I want you to pick up on any red flags that you hear and take note of them. And I want to hear what you guys think about what were red flags to you and her story. So, yeah, our guest is awesome. Carrie. And at the end of the second part,

we'll make sure we share ways that you can donate or help this cause, which we're still kind of figuring out. We haven't been able to do that in the past. But we're going to share that with you because, like you said, McKenzie, I think people are going to want to get involved. Yeah, absolutely. We can't let this happen. No, and especially because January is talking awareness month, like I feel like it's an appropriate time to contribute to the cause and help these people get the help our guests get the help that they need.

And especially when it's something that's ongoing and there's no end in sight. And they need help. They need resources. This story is like a horror story. So just get ready, guys. Seriously, hold on to your pants. Also, real quick, last night, we had our dating detectives book club. So if you're not part of the Patreon, it's only $5 a month. You can join us on Patreon. You get two bonus episodes a month. And we do

book club. So we read a really cool book. And then we come together and talk about it. We also just get together for other things. You have early access to merch. And so it's really amazing. And we're so grateful for all of you who popped on and who read this insane. It was actually a little bit of a book. Little Secrets was the name of it. If you missed it, you should go, you should go read it. It'll take you like half a day. It's so quick. Join us on Patreon. We'll link that in the show notes. And I think we should get into it. What do you think? I'm ready as it all ever be. Carrie, take us away. Let's, let's hear from Carrie. Okay, Carrie, we are, I'm excited to hear your story. I always say, why do I always say I'm excited? I'm excited. I'm probably not excited to hear this story. But will you

please share your story? Take it. We're grateful that you're here. How about that? There we go. I am super grateful to be here. And thank you so much because it's been a long road. But I'm excited to get to this point because it's still continuing on. But you know. This is ongoing situation? Oh yes. Oh yes. It has not stopped. Oh, boy. That's why I was excited that McKenzie, that you're a private investigator because I was hoping that maybe you would give me some tips and tricks and things because I have considered getting a private investigator. I want to hear your story. And then I can tell you like what what I think might be best. So this whole story began back in the spring of 2022. I decided after basically six years of kind of not dating, not doing not being in that

world because I, the last guy I dated was in 2016. He was part of my church and thought he was a good guy until one day he grabbed me in a bad way. And I was like, yeah, no, not doing that. Wait, first time he grabbed you bad and you were like, I'm out. Yes. Oh, good. Okay. Well, because I have divorced and I had been married and I was in a domestic violent situation. So you knew right away you were like not going there, not doing that. I'm so sorry. You went through that. Yeah, I'm so sorry. So after that, I decided and I had started a single mom's ministry with my one church. And so it was, it was so awesome. It really, I felt like, again, I was in a situation where I was like, I don't understand why.

I'm in the situation. I mean, I do because I left my husband who was abusive, and I'm proud of myself now for doing that. Back then, it was a very scary road. It's hard to leave. It is hard to leave, especially as a Christian when the church doesn't promote that. And they don't want to really deal with real issues a lot of times. And I love the church. I love Jesus. I'm all the things. But, you know, it just, there's just, things need to change. I'll just put it that way. We've had other people like you. And I love when it's people who are like, I've found a way to still stay connected to that community and that faith without, while still being able to hold it accountable. Yes. It's like so important. It's so important. It's so important. So I had started the single moms ministry. I was starting a conference for single moms. And like I said, that guy grabbed me in a weird way. And especially because he was a church guy, you know, just didn't expect that kind of behavior. But. You know, my ex-husband, he was supposed to be a church guy too. So, you know, it doesn't matter these, like you guys, I love you say, how you say dogfish. I love that term. You know, there's a lot of them out there, even in church. And so they're everywhere. All, all everywhere. All over, yes. And so,

so after my first single mom's event, I met another girl and she was, she was dating a guy and then found out that he was married. And so we're both these disillusioned girls and we're like, you know, let's just do a year. Let's just start a coven. Yes. And so we started a year sabbatical. I should date each other. Good for you.

And basically, we just encouraged each other that whole year. And so I decided to jump back into the dating situation. And I was like, I really was hopeful. And I just thought, man, this is going to be my time. going to meet my person and it all just took a very big turn. Oh, boy. So how old were you at this point and you said you'd been to divorce? Oh, gosh.

I was going to say. Let me see. So I am 51 now. So 5049, 48 maybe, something like that. How old are your kids? I just have one son who is 20. He just turned 21. So here we are in the spring of 2020 to decide to jump in.

I use Facebook dating because I wasn't going to pay for an app. And I thought, if anything, they always say like people who are getting together are sometimes seven degrees away from your sphere. And so I thought, well, if I use Facebook dating, maybe a friend of a friend, you know, somebody, that kind of thing. And so it's, you know, it's your sphere. And oftentimes you can see who people's friends are, that kind of thing. Yes. So I wasn't actively dating, but I was on there. You know, you start talking to people. and you interact with some, you meet some. So that was the spring of 2022. Then I got busy. For me, it's always been like I've dated on and off on different apps through the years. And I get, I go on, I do it. And then I'm like, okay, I'm bored with this. Like, let me just focus on me. Yeah, yeah, totally. That's so real. Yeah. And so honestly, to go back to 2016 at that point, I decided to just focus on my son. And I'm so glad that I did because four years later in 2020, he decided to live with his dad. And so it opened up my life tremendously. And I ended up moving to a different area and to a different job and all the things. And so it was great because we still had a relationship,

but he was able to be with his dad. And I didn't want to stop him from being with his dad because people were like, you're going to save your relationship with him because you're allowing him to go and see what his dad is for himself. And I know how his dad is. You know, but he, needed to, he needs to experience that for himself and boys need their dads at that age. And so, so like I said, so in 2022, here I am. I'm by myself. I'm in a new area. And so I was like, okay, new area, new men, new opportunities. So it was excited. Like I said, I felt like it was going to be my time. And this is going to be, I was going to find a fresh star or something like that. So I jumped in online because it is honestly, online is a great tool to meet people.

It's a great means. That's what we're doing. Not so people do. It's a great. It is a great. That's where everybody is. Yeah. And you met your husband, right? On an app, I met my boyfriend on Bumble. Yeah. It can work. It can totally work. And I have met so many nice guys. They just weren't for me. They weren't. They weren't what I was looking for. I was them looking for me. whatever. You guys, if I've told you once, I've told you a thousand times your nighttime bedroom temperature has a huge impact on your sleep quality. Ask my husband, he knows. My husband is such a hot sleeper and I'm such a cold sleep. And so sometimes it makes it difficult to be comfortable

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upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made. Go to try miracle.com slash TDD and use code TDD to claim your free three piece towel set and save over 40% off. Again, that's try miracle.com slash TDD to treat yourself. Thank you Miracle Made for sponsoring this episode. So anyway, we get on Facebook dating. I get this message from Jack. So I meet Jack and it's okay. I'm not like sold on this guy, but I'm also.

you know, not meeting a lot of guys at that point. So kind of, you know, not a choice more of a lack of options. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. I like that. Check this guy out. He's, he's all right, I guess. There's nobody else really going on. Right. Exactly. And obviously, we connected for some reason because we kept throughout that year, we would disconnect and then we'd reconnect and then we'd reconnected. And so- never met in person yet. Had never met in person until June of 2022. I was going ATV riding and my friend knew it was one of my wishes that I wanted. So one weekend I was scheduled to ATV ride and the next weekend I was going skydiving. What?

Good for you, adventurous. So I know. I have that streak in me. So I was planning. I had every intention to go skydiving. But that ATV weekend I ended up flipping the ATV over, broke my leg and ended up in the hospital and it just happened to be in the area where he lived. And so, yes. Oh, my gosh. So he wanted a first, I think I reached out to him because I was like, oh my gosh, I'm in this hospital and it's near him.

And so he wanted to come by come see me. And it would have been our first meeting. I was like, yeah, no. It's not going to work out. No thanks. I am like a hot mess. So no thank you. Yeah, that's like the worst like absolutely not. Exactly. Exactly. So I, you know, but I appreciated him, his kindness of wanting to be there for me. But at that point, that's what reconnected us. But then once I got home from being in the hospital, having surgery, and then July, I was still healing. August, I was still healing. But I would say probably the beginning of August, I was like, you know, let me just see who else is out there and just kind of start talking to some people. So I met a really, really nice guy. And we started talking and we started dating for about a month. But then by the end of that, you know, we were just kind of heading in different directions. And so we decided to just say goodbye. Mutually.

Yes, mutually. But what's interesting is while I was talking to that guy and kind of pseudo dating him, this other guy, Jack, he shows up and he's friend request me. And I guess because on Facebook app, you don't have to friend request people. and they do sort of protect you a little bit. But it's probably easier to find people, though, too, on Facebook. And so he friend requested me and I'm like, oh, there's that guy. And so I was like, oh, except his friend request.

And then he pops into my messages and I said to him, I'm like, I don't want to talk to you because I'm focusing on this guy. And because for me, I'm just, you know, I just feel like that makes it fair for this one guy that I'm talking to. Yeah, sure, of course. You know, make that clear to the other guy. So you're not leading in communication. Yeah. So he respected that and he backed off. But as soon as things were over with that guy, this guy, Jack, he comes right back around. And I was like, oh, there's that guy again. So I was like, okay. So this is probably around September. And we start talking and we start just having deeper conversations. And of course, for me, God is extremely important. and having that foundation. And so I was very concerned. I was like, you know, just want to kind of

feel you out, see where you're at, you know, do you read the Bible? Do you pray? Do you do these things that like I want someone to be doing? And so he was like all about the book of revelation and the Bible and he's talking about God and having all these conversations. I'm like, okay. So we finally get to the point where he starts talking more about being in a relationship and I'm like, whoa. I'm like, I'm like, I don't become, go into a relationship with anybody, first of all, who I haven't met. So through September, we start talking more and more. And it wasn't like it was every day, but you figure there's four weeks in September. And so by the end of September, when he starts talking about being in a relationship, I'm like, okay, whoa, like you, we have to meet. And I said, and I can't drive at this

point because I can drive, but I can only drive short distances. And so he was more than happy to come to my location because he had dated a girl and was engaged to a girl who was in my same area. So I thought, how long ago? About 10 years, 11 years ago. Okay. Oh, okay. Okay. So it wasn't like yesterday. No, no. And I'll allow it. Yeah. And they dated for about three and a half years, I believe it was. And so, so we decided to meet on October 1st of 2022. And, and, And as most first dates go and first meetings go, it was good. And I did all the right things. I met him in public. I told my best friend where I was. I didn't tell him where I lived. I hadn't given him much, you know, in my life. And so, so like I said, but it was a, it was a nice first meeting. He was very much a gentleman. He was very kind. He was very understanding. Was he, were you like attracted to him, paint a picture a little bit? Okay, so that's the thing. I like that start. Yeah. So that's the thing. His pictures on Facebook were he was, looked to be a good looking man. I remember we met at the mall and I remember seeing him in a distance because, you know, you're trying to find each other and, you know, kind of see who this person is. And I'm just like, oh, I was like, okay. I was like, he looks different than his pictures. Did he lie or did he just choose like the best picture?

I think he chose his best pictures ever and he had he looked a little bit like he had gained some weight and different things. You know, his hair was a little bit more thin maybe. But people don't understand that there is someone out there looking for someone just like you and you trying to be someone else and trying to find a wrong people. It don't make sense. Such a good point. Yes. Yes. So, yes. So first impressions were interesting because I was like, okay, you know, but I tried to make the best of every situation. And I'm like, okay, he might not be what I want. But we had some, I don't even say chemistry, but we had, we could have conversation. So I'm like, okay, I can do this.

It's fine. We'll talk. We'll see. Yeah, we'll talk. So we went out to dinner. You know, we just kind of, we walked around the mall for a little bit. And then we went to a restaurant and drove separately. We had a nice time.

And he paid and he was a gentleman. Like I said, it was really a nice time. And otherwise, I would not have met him a second time. And so through that week, though, there were things that were happening that were a little off. He started sending me pictures of like engagement rings and I was like, why are you sending me? Within weeks? Within that week from the first meeting to the second meeting. And I was like, what are you doing? I was like, I'm not really sure what this is, but I know it was a mind game, you know? And so, and then he goes,

oh, I just accidentally sent that to you or something like that. You know what I mean? But I was like, okay, we'll see about, because we had already planned to meet the next Saturday. And so I was like, we'll see how this goes. And I even said to him, I said, well, you know, the first date's always surreal. So you really have to give it another shot. And he's like, well, what do you mean? And I said, well, because the first one is, you're, it is. It's just very surreal. It is. It's awkward. It's just kind of, you're feeling each other out for, you know, do I want to continue this? But we had good conversations throughout the week. And so I just thought, well, I'll just leave it. go and let it be what it is. So that Saturday, remember, my leg was still healing. And so again,

he texted me and he was like, so do you want me pick you up at her house or what do you want to do? And there was a slight moment that I thought, oh, maybe I'll just have him pick me up. Because again, my leg is broken. It would be easier, all the things. And I was like, no, let's just meet out the mall again and just go from there. And so we did that. That day, though, it was like, I just want to say like the universe was giving me all kinds of clues of things that were just going bad and south. And I was like, but, you know, it was I was committed. I'm a person of my word. So I was like, I'm not going to cancel on this guy. He's driving two hours to come see me. And so he gets there. And as he's driving to meet me, he's, he calls me. And his temper is kind of rising a little bit because there's traffic. His temper. Oh, red flag. We learned that from Dr. Romney. She said that's a sign of narcissism. Continue.

Oh, well, that is very interesting. Isn't it? Yes. Well, hold on. It's normal for people to, like, get a little temper in the, like, my husband is the easiest going guy ever. Traffic pisses him off. That's true.

But you're here on the show, so it's safe to say. It can be. It's not a deal breaker. It's a red flag. Red flags are just things that make you lift your eyebrows. They're not like immediate bolts. Okay, so let's hear more. So the traffic thing started happening. First of all, he was supposed to come at one time, and then he was late, and he got sidetracked, and he had all the stuff to do. And I don't really know what he was doing, and I don't really care. But I just was like, okay, but now he's on his way. And now he's calling me. He's in traffic. That's not far from where we're meeting, but he's, like stuck in this really bad traffic. And so, you know, just felt like, again, it signed from the universe. So he finally reaches the mall. And,

we had decided to go to a park and he was going to drive me this time. And so I was like, okay, that would be nice because I can't, you know, it's hard for me to drive. And so we go to this park and- So he picked you up at your place? He did. He not my place. No. We met at the mall. Okay. I got it. Okay. Safe time. So that, so you still wanted me, which is so smart. Yes. Yes. So we go to this park and it's around the area where I guess he used to know this area. And it wasn't, it was maybe 20, 25 minutes from where we were. And so walked around, we were just, again, having conversations. But it was different this time. I don't know how to explain it. But before we met, I had said something to him about, oh, I'm so excited because Steve Harvey has these 10 questions that you should ask on a first date. Oh, that's fine. I've seen those. So I said to this guy, I want to talk about these questions and thought he'd be excited too. But he was like, well, what question? You know, and he starts questioning me. I know. And I was just like, why, like, why is he acting weird about these questions? And so I just thought, well, whatever, we'll work that out. And so now we're

at this park. And then we get back in his vehicle and we decide, okay, we're hungry. Let's go out to dinner. So at dinner, we're sitting there. And I said to him, oh, I was like, let's talk about these questions that I have. And he didn't look thrilled. And I was like, but things were just, like I said, his attitude was weird. I was feeling weird. So I didn't know if it was me or if it was him. You know what I mean? Just weird guy. Yeah. You're like what's going. Like I said, there were just all kinds of weird things happening. But to keep the conversation going, I thought, well, let me ask you one of these questions. And so I asked him a question. And it was basically like a preference question. It wasn't, I don't know how to explain it. Like sweet or savory. Like that kind of like not too deep. Yes,

Yes, exactly. And so he's sitting there and he like couldn't answer the question. And I looked at him, I'm like, just tell me what you think or what you're feeling or what you decide or you know what I mean. And it just was weird that he couldn't. But I realized even in that moment, I felt like I think I was really getting the vibe. I was like, I think he's trying to figure out what I would want to hear. And that's what he was doing. And so like I said, so then things. from there kind of got even a little bit more off. And so we get back into his vehicle. We're just sitting there. And he finally brings up the whole thing about God. And he says to me, he goes, well, what your expectations of what you want in a man with in relationship with the Lord is totally unrealistic. And I was like, well, unrealistic if you want him to be your man apparently. Right. It's like, exactly. Then find someone else, I guess. Yeah. Right. Okay. Bye. That's what I said to him. I said, well, if that's how you feel, I said, this is over. And so he starts crying and he starts saying, I'm done with women and, you know, I've been hurt so much. And I mean, I know. I know. So then I'm sitting there and I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm thinking like, what is going to happen now? And I'm thinking like, dumb move being in his car and all this stuff. Because I had no idea. And honestly, I'd been out of the dating scene for a while. But,

What I used to do was if I didn't like a guy and it just was not my cup of tea, I decided that I would wait until I was home and I was safe and then I would tell them things are off. I think a lot of women have gone to that point because you just don't know. They're so unpredictable. Trust me, this is proof. So that is the one thing that I just was like, you know, I had no idea. And so then he starts, well, can we be friends and this and that? And so I was like, you know, I'm like, sure. You know, I think that.

But if you say no, you think, what if he does something to me? Exactly. And we're not quite back at our car, my car yet. So you think about that, that I just had to kind of, I don't want to say I was playing a game, but I was just kind of like, okay, I need to figure out the situation. And I didn't feel unsafe, honestly, at that point. I just thought, wow, that's a crazy reaction. for us just meeting the second time.

Right. But thinking back to him, sending the pictures of the engagement ring, and, you know, he'd send me these different love songs and these different things. And so I was thinking, well, I guess he had his hopes up high for some reason. And so, and I'm thinking, dude, you don't even know me. So I don't know how you can be already attached. Do you know what I mean? Other than that, this is not a good attachment.

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Visit dipsystories.com slash T-D-D. Anyway, so he finally sort of calms down. It was a very quiet ride on the way back to my car. I'm trying to think. So I finally, I don't even know. I just kind of was like, okay, well, I don't know what to say, but I'm, you know, I got out of his vehicle. Now I'm in my car. And I thought, you know what, I better sit in my car. And it was October at the time. So it was a little chilly. So we needed, I wanted my car to warm up. And I wanted him to drive away before me driving away. And so the way he drove away was like a bat out of hell. I'm telling you, it was the craziest thing. And I'm like, thank you, Jesus, that at least he didn't drive like that when I was in his vehicle, that he's now doing that because I don't know if he thought, well, he really can't manipulate me or he really can't maneuver me. And honestly, like, you could totally tell that was

manipulation with his crying. Yeah. Oh, 100%. You know, and because of what I've been through with my ex-husband and, you know, just in the dating scene, you get, you get familiar with, unfortunately, the narcissist behavior. And so, you know, so I started to see it. And so that night, I'm sitting in my car, five minutes later, he calls my cell phone and he's still crying and he's going to get gas and he's on the phone and he just wants to talk. And at this point, I felt kind of kind of bad for him because I thought he's got a two-hour drive. He's all upset. So let me just stay on the phone with him. So that was, I don't even remember the time exactly, but I remember. around 1130, I was like, I have to go because I am going to church tomorrow. I have to go

pick up a friend. And so I have to go. And so at this point, I was just feeling like he's just going to keep going on and on and on about this stuff. And there's no point. And now he's home. So I feel good about saying goodbye. So said goodbye all through that night and into the next morning, which I told him I was going to church, which he knew I was a church girl, because of course, now I'm unrealistic at my expectations. Right. To him. So how do you not know this?

Yeah. You know, or you forget it so easily. Goodness. So he keeps texting me and I don't remember if he tried to call me even in the middle of the night. But when I'm home, I shut my phone off and I'm just like that. And so he was trying to call me, text me. And what's he saying in these texts? Just like, I'm so sorry or I miss you or.

Yes. His one voicemail was he had said, Carrie, I know why you don't, you know, you're freaking out and, you know, you don't want me in your life because I, you know, I told you that I just wanted you to be mine forever. And he had said some things that I think he had texted me and I was like, this feels really off. And so, yeah. So, you know, and I just, that literally gave me like that feeling in my belly that I'm like, yeah, something is not. Femtuation. Femtuition. Femtuation. I love that phrase. Trust your phone tuition.

Yes. And so, so yeah, I was like, yeah, that did bother me. But he left this voicemail, which is very important for what comes soon. And so left me this and he was very apologetic. And he was just like, you know, I'm so sorry I didn't act myself. And can you please, you know, just talk with me. And so this is all while I'm at church, you know, I'm not seeing his time. text messages, my phones away. And so finally get home. And I just kind of had it at that point where I was

like, you know what? I said, you need to stop. I said, if I want to talk to you, I will contact you, but you need to stop. Okay, good. So you know, clear communication. Yes. And I tried to be very nice about it. But at this point, I was like realizing I need to be firm with this guy because he's not getting it. And so at that point, he then continues to text me and he continues to. After you said do not text me? Yes. And I mean, and it got longer and longer text. And it was almost like he just felt like he had to say all this stuff. So now he's trying to convince you to not okay. Yes. Exactly. And so he wouldn't stop. And so we, I finally, I think this, this went all Sunday and then into Monday. And Monday. And morning, I finally said to him again, I said, I'm going to block you if you can't stop. And so at that point,

I had already blocked him on Facebook because something was feeling uneasy. And so apparently he then said, he started to get mean at that point. And he was just like, did you block me on Facebook? And he was going on and all these things. And so I ended up, I think I tried to call him and just to try to talk. And at that point, his voice was completely different and he was just very rude and mean. And so I knew, again, something was off. So I just thought, okay, dude, you just made it really easy for me to block you. And so I blocked his phone number at that point. So that was October 8th. And so all the way going back, going through October on October 26th, so to back up a little bit, I have a, I have three brothers and then I have one that passed away of cancer in 2001.

Gosh. Sorry. Yeah. It's really sad. I mean, he was only 27 at the time. Oh, too young. Yes. So October 26th is actually my brother's birthday.

And so the one who passed away. Wow. And so that is the only reason why I remember this day. And so he ends up leaving me a voicemail. And granted, at this time, I had already blocked. him on Facebook and blocked him on my phone. So I'm getting ready with a friend of mine. We're at my place and she's a co-worker of mine and we're headed to an event and she's sitting on my couch and I'm in my recliner and she's on her phone kind of looking at stuff and probably from her husband

and things. And so I'm on the recliner and I'm sitting there and I'm like, oh, I'm like, I have a voicemail. And I thought, this is kind of weird because I thought I would, I thought I would notice it and my phone. But if you're not a contact in my phone, you don't get through my phone. And so, you know, anybody who's spam or whatever. So somehow this number got through and to leave me a voicemail while it was him. And so he says, let me see, he says all this is like in quotes. All I'm going to say is one thing. Big mistake. Big mistake for messing with me and getting my account disabled, paybacks a bitch. And believe me, you'll get it. And so you can imagine my heart, at that point because I'm thinking, what in the world? And so end up going to this event,

but I didn't know what to do at that point because I'm sure people will be like, but why didn't you call the police at that point? And I just, when you're in these situations, you just, I'm not always the quickest thinker. And I'm thinking, I'm going to go to this event that we're supposed to go to, but I couldn't, I really couldn't focus on it. I couldn't. And it was like a church, church type event. So, you know, so it was one of those things. So obviously I shared it with my friend right away and I said listen to those voicemail. And so she was like, that's really weird. And I said, I know. And I wasn't sure should I just ignore it? Should I, you know, I honestly was just kind of like, well, maybe I should just ignore it. And that's what I would have done. I think. I think it would be like, you know what? Maybe we'll just see why escalate if it's not going to. Yes, that's exactly what I had thought. And so, so went to this event, came back home. And I just remember a feeling. really uneasy being at my house then, and especially because I'm by myself. And so,

but I just thought, okay, just go with it. You know, we'll, we'll just see what happens and pray that nothing happens. And so, so the next day, I was at work and I sent the message to, I was working at a church at that point, and I sent this to some of the pastors, and they're like, oh my gosh, they encouraged me to then. I felt like I needed to call the police at that point, because I I just was getting a feeling. And so ended up calling the police, talking to an officer. So at that point, always call the police, even if it's just to tell them what's going on, even if there's no actual law that's been broken yet.

And that's something I want to make clear. Always call the cop. I don't care how little it is. Is it just for like the record? Just for the record. Because what's going to happen is these little bitty things are going to happen. And then something huge is going to happen. And then you're going to be like, okay, now I need to call the cops.

They're going to say, well, why didn't you call the cops before? We could have prevented this. And then it's like, well, we can't do anything to arrest him because there was no history of what. Do you know what I mean? So it's always called the cops, even if it's something stupid. And just like, well, I call you off 47 times. Do you know what I mean? And it's so hard because you feel stupid, but we have to not care.

I'm not saying call 911, but like you can call the non-emergency line and say like, hey, this is going on. I call the sheriff's office, let them know, I want to make a report of this. Nobody needs to come out. I'm not requesting a deputy. I'm not using the county's resources or whatever. I know that this is really small, but always, or even if you still feel too silly to call the cops, write it down in a journal, keep something that's like pen and paper, this date, this time,

this happened. That's your receipt. That's your bill of sale for that transaction. And that will show you're keeping a journal. So when it goes to court or when it goes to the cops, you can say, well, this happened, this happened, this happened. Well, why didn't you call the cops? Well, there was no real law being broken, but I wanted to keep track of this.

And that, you can hold that up. Help to, hopefully. That is good advice. And even if you get some cops that are not the friendliest, who cares. They still got to take that report. Exactly. Exactly. And so, because I've run into a lot of different things.

I'm glad that you brought that up because it is so important that you tell somebody. Tell somebody, write it down, write it in your journal, email it to yourself, whatever. Keep record of it. Yes. Exactly. I'm sorry. I'm sorry to interrupt. No, I'm glad.

I'm glad because that that is the whole purpose of telling the story is that hopefully people will do what I didn't feel sure to do because when this is first happening to you, you don't know what you don't know. You don't know what you don't know, absolutely. And I'm much more aware today than I was back then. I was very oblivious back then. And we walk around looking at our phones and doing all these things. Nobody's paying attention. I'm a PI. I watch people not pay attention. They're not, nobody's paying attention. Exactly. And, but some creepy people are. Yep. The ones who you need to be scared of are... Exactly, exactly.

So at that point with this voicemail, I ended up reporting it to the police. The police officer tells me, well, I'm going to call him and see what I can find out because it's a he said, she said situation at this point. Wait, so they're going to call the guy. They're going to call. They're going to call Jack. And so... Hmm. So she calls me back.

I don't know. in a matter of maybe 10, 15 minutes. And she says, so I talked to him. He said that his accounts are fine. Nothing's wrong with them. And that he has broken things off with you and that he has not contacted you in three weeks. And so I was like, well, that's interesting because I want to call the police on myself to tell them because he broke it off with me. And you literally have evidence.

But okay, buddy. Exactly. So, I don't know. I just find that very amusing because I'm thinking, you just lied about everything in your voicemail. Through that, then ended up blocking him. So the police officer says to me, I told him not to contact you. And so I said, okay, great, fine. Well, I keep receiving then in the back of my phone. Remember, because I need spam calls, that kind of thing. Still coming to my phone, but they're not ringing my phone. So there's tons of calls that I'm seeing now. I'm like, what? And they're different numbers?

They're all different numbers, but their area code is the same as this area code that this guy's phone was from. And so the police officer says to me, she's like, well, why don't you look at your texts and do screenshots and send them to us? So I was like, I'm not going to sit there on my iPhone and screenshot my iPhone. So I went on to eye message. So get this. I don't know if you know this. Maybe you do. I did not know this until this happened.

But remember, I blocked him on my iPhone. But when you go on IMessage, IMessage has all of these texts that happened after I blocked him that I'm not seeing but are coming up in IMessage. I had no idea that was a thing that could happen. What? Like if I blocked somebody on my phone, they could, their messages.

Because I know when you block somebody, it's not like they're really blocked. They just like go to a little folder and somewhere in your phone. or something. Oh, so you went in and found messages that you never saw because he was blocked? They popped up like on her computer. Oh. Oh. Yes. Yes. So when I test this. You totally should because I was like, I'm not going to screenshot little shots on my iPhone. So I was like, I'm going to go on the computer. That's how I found this because when I brought it up on the computer, soon as I blocked him, I mean, he starts calling me, you're a lunatic. You can't. You can't.

can't sing. You're ugly. You're this. You're that. And then in one of the things, he must have got really angry because he said, he texted, I hope you die, bitch. And so, yeah. So at that point, I reported that to the police officer, had screenshoted every single message where she sees the beforehand where he's trying to win me back all the way through. Now he is getting angry. And just, I mean, really like so much like my ex-husband, actually. I'm so familiar. It is. It is for real.

Do you feel like that made you more emotional about it or more like getaway? Like let's just get rid of. You know what I mean? Like having it bring up your past, I feel like it could go a lot of different ways with what it triggers. Some of it was that I was like, gosh, man, am I like attracting this stuff to myself? But 2020, I did my work. And so I met the guy two times. shut it down as soon as I knew something was off and most people go away. And so I knew in my mind

that this guy didn't go away. So this is this is some kind of situation. I just didn't know. Most people can take a hint. Yeah. Yeah. It was like no, he took it as a challenge. Exactly. Exactly. So at that point, I then talked to another officer and sent the messages I called them. And so he says, this is now a second officer. He says, I'm going to call him and talk to him. He calls Jack, and he tells him the same story. My accounts are fine. I haven't talked to her in a few weeks, and I broke things off with her. Same exact story. And so this second officer, which the first officer was a woman, the second officer was a man. And so he tells me what happened. And so I said, okay, that's fine. So over the weekend, you can imagine my head is racing because I'm thinking,

again, am I safe? You know, I didn't know. And again, I'm living by myself, so I don't know what to expect. So by Monday morning, the police officer called me and she said, we are going to charge him with two misdemeanor harassment charges. She said, let me, yes, yes. So she said to me, let me call him and then I'll give you a call back when I was expecting five or 10 minutes at the most that, you know, she's going to tell him and have this conversation. She calls me back probably about 40 minutes later and she goes, wow, that was a range of emotions. So she proceeds to tell me that it went from her telling him that you lied to us and kind of going back to their conversations and saying, we are now going to charge you because you did

these things. And he finally admitted it that he did lie to them. And he did these things and did the voicemail. But then he went from, oh my gosh, please don't charge me. Would you please consider that we can have a three-way call and I can apologize? And she's like, no, she's like, you're being charged. What are you 10? You're not going to write an apology letter and do detention. Can you imagine if they were like, yeah, the woman you harassed. Let's get her on the phone. Exactly. That's crazy. So I guess so he wouldn't be charged. I don't know. So he's trying to work her. So the officer obviously did not fall for that. She charged him with two misdemeanor harassment charges. That was that morning, probably mid-morning. So going out of work that day, I'm pretty much one of the last people to be leaving my building. And I get into my car. And so I'm at a church and we had a daycare. And so it wasn't unfamiliar to have cars in the parking lot or coming in and out, that kind of thing. But there was a car that was parked like my car. car was parked pretty much in front of the doors. And then there was a car that was a black car kind of

in a distance. So I see this car. And I'm already on edge because I'm thinking, you know, because again, Femtuation is kicking in. And I'm like looking at this car. So I get in my car. This car starts itself up. And then there is a parking lot on the other side of like a through street, like where the parking lot was. there was the entrance of the church, a street that goes by, and then there's another parking lot. So it's very close to each other. So I'm in my car now, see this car now, start itself up, pull through the through street on the other parking lot right in front of me, like to make it clear that they wanted me to see them. And unfortunately, again, I'm not thinking, oh, get the license plate, take a picture. No, you're not saying it's gay live. Yeah. So I'm seeing this. And it's like,

a minute long maybe, but it's like slow motion in some ways. And so this car pulls up right in front of me, then pulls around, drives away exactly like this guy the second time I cut things off with him. And I'm like, oh, my word, I'm pretty sure that was him. So I immediately called the police at that point. And I talked to this officer and I told her, I said, this guy, I'm sure he's following me. I said that he now, because he didn't know where I lived or where I worked, according to what I knew, because I had never shared that with him. So the fact that he showed up at, you know, I believe that it was him. They will say, well, you don't really know if it was him. I'm like, who else would it be? Yeah. You're promising payback. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon, but it does take it.

Exactly. Exactly. So the police officer was like, man, she's like, he called me like four times. So I was hoping he'd leave you alone. And I'm thinking, I'm like, he's talking. Now he's apparently calling her and just trying to convince her maybe to not charge him. I don't know what he was calling her about, but it just got weird from that point. I see. So at that point, I decided that I was going to go stay with a friend because I thought that feels safer to me. I don't feel safe in my home now.

Oh, 100%. That was a good choice. That sounds so sweet. Yeah. So I went and stayed with a friend. after that, I can't even describe what happened in my life. I will. It just, it makes me emotional. Oh, bless. I'm so sorry. I mean, this is like, I just can't imagine the fear, like the constant looking over your shoulder, even at this point, let alone wherever you're about to go. Yeah, yeah. And so, yeah, it just makes me emotional because I think, because it's not over. And so.

And that's where, again, just praying and hoping that someone out there can help me to stop this madness. You know what I mean? So sorry. I just need to. Don't apologize. No, take your time. I'm like gearing up. Like, I'm like putting bullets in the gun.

Like I'm like, how can we help? No, because like I said, I want to share my story. But it's very raw and real at times. I mean, for the most part, I'm at the point where I'm just. like, man, I'm just so over this already. You know what I mean? But when sometimes when you're talking about it, it just can bring up emotions. So the next things that start happening is my accounts start being broken too. My phone starts being hacked. Like your social media accounts? Yeah, my social media. My, my regular business accounts, my Gmail accounts, my, my phone. Are they doing

anything? How do you know this is happening? Yeah, how do you know they're breaking it? Like, what are they doing? So I will change a password and the minute I change the password, it's not working. Things like that. So they're not like spending money or messaging people. It's almost like a controlled thing. It's totally a control thing. My phone was doing all the things that you would expect a hacked phone to do. It was losing power.

It was literally I could watch apps on my phone. And the one night I actually was getting, I had surgery that day. to get the screws out of my ankle. And I had, at that point, I had Wi-Fi and I had security cameras. And both were being shut down and messed with. And so when I'm literally this night that, the night of the day that I had surgery, I'm in my recliner and I'm just resting. And I had a fog light that was also a security camera.

and I was looking on my phone and I literally see my app shutting my lights off. And they had been programmed to be on from like seven and seven at night until, you know, the next morning. Okay. So that means that somebody has remotely hacked your phone and they are controlling your phone screen from another device. Correct. Correct. And so that happened.

And then at that same time when I was looking at my phone, my phone literally I see it starting to call out to a phone number. And it's calling. And I'm literally, I have it in my hand, and I'm just looking at it. And my phone is now calling a number. So that starts happening. And after this stuff started happening, like I said, I did get Wi-Fi. I got security cameras because I didn't have them. And so all of that kept getting shut down. So now I'm calling the internet carrier. They're telling me, we have never seen anything like this before. And I'm thinking, I'm sure you haven't. I never have. My security cameras, they were being shut down. And so honestly, I finally got rid of them because I thought, well, is it better to have someone break into your house with security cameras and shutting them down?

Or is it better to just not know? So I chose to shut them down because I was spending literally hundreds and hundreds of hours calling vendors to fix things, calling to fix my account. Nobody knew how to fix it. No one knew how to fix it. It's so novel still. Yes. The technology. Yeah.

And your phone did you want to get, like what did you think about using your phone? So I decided to completely wipe out my phone factory reset. The phone thought that was going to work. Nope. Got hacked into after the factory reset. So there must have been something deeper into the phone. To this day, So I am now on my third phone. And the second phone that was bought was through the church that I worked for. It wasn't even in my name. It wasn't in my account. And that phone got hacked into when you were signing into new, like when you bought a new phone, for instance, was it an Apple phone?

It was. Okay. And did you use this same Apple idea? Or did you create a new one every time? I created a completely new one and completely. And still being hacked. Yes. At that point. it just continued with my accounts. It was mainly virtual at that point. And then, and I don't remember the exact timing of this, but it wasn't too far after that. I came home from church one day and came into my bedroom and my one pillow has a decoration on the front of it, but on the back, it's plain. Oh, God. And I'm a very, because I live by myself and I'm just very systematic, that kind of thing. And so I came into my bedroom and I'm pretty organized and very neat and tidy. And so I saw

my pillow and I'm like, was I that tired that I didn't like, I'm like looking at my pillow and I'm thinking, that is so weird. I'm thinking I must have been really tired or something. And that night, I remember sitting in my bed because I pretty much take my pillows off and line them up next to me. and, you know, it just brings me, feels comfortable. It's a ritual. Yeah, yeah. And so I line them up. And then when I make my bed, I line them back, you know, the way that they're supposed to be.

And so I was sitting in my bed and I was looking at my pillow and I just remember thinking, did I do that? Was I like, you're questioning yourself. What did it do? Was it backwards? It was backwards, yes. And so the plane side was faced so I could see it. and the decorative side was backwards. And so I'm seeing this and I'm kind of, I was like, I just questioned it.

And then by the next day, I thought exactly what you said before, I had decided to call the police because I said, this is just weird to me because I don't do that. And my friends who know me, they will tell you that I am very much in its place kind of person. And that ended up being the first of many times that he broke into my home. I just can't believe there's like a whole another half to this story. It literally does feel like a scary movie. Like this is the kind of stuff that filmmakers put in movies to add suspense. Like he's like this mess.

I'm just not ready for part two. I need the break. So let's talk about how the laws are not, the laws are not catching up to technology. The laws are, the criminals are a couple steps ahead. And I feel like the laws need to catch up. we need more insight into like the brain of a stalker.

Like what are they thinking? What do they ultimately want? And so I feel like more education and more task forces specifically for stalking because that's what leads to the danger and the violence because a lot of times stalking is escalated. Yes. And even if it's not escalated, when there's not proof of, violence or evidence really of like I will get to it. We'll get through this whole dogfish debrief really extensively at the end of part two. But I just feel like these victims have to like

wait until something bad happens. And then they get support that they need. And that is so scary to be like, wait, so do I just have to sit in my house until I have proof that he broke in? Right. Or do I? And that's what's hard is showing the proof. And it's not on. a local law enforcement level. You can't really blame anybody. Like law enforcement can only do what they can do, right? But at the same time, it's like the laws that need to catch up. It's the laws. Yeah, it's the legislation. It's the laws. It's on all these different levels. We really need to focus on educating our, because you can't, like, when you just call the cops and say, hey, come help me. There's nothing they can do if they can't prove somebody broke. Like they are on a local level, right? So we need more in-depth education and training and a focus. on these certain crimes that it's kind of, it's a gray area. Like, no one knows how to handle it, you know, because it's hard to prove. So it's, it's, that creates the danger. I mean, that's also why it's so important to hear from people like Carrie directly. Because they're the

people that, I mean, I wish that they were not in that position, but they're the ones that we need to listen to. Like, whenever a law directly affects a person, I always am wondering why that person isn't in the decision-making room. Like, that feels so important to me. And I, I hope that her story reaches people. Because they're the ones of the experience. They're the ones who could say like, hey, this was my experience. Maybe we could try this or at least give their input, something. Right.

It's like, what do you need? So, yeah, so part two next week. I do want everybody's thoughts and whatever's come up for you so far. Let us know. You can go ahead and send your support to Carrie too. Like if you want to, like we want to hear what your thoughts are on the episode. So far, obviously, there's still, y'all, there's so much. I love her.

Right. Bless her heart. And she's, I just feel like this is why it's so important to talk about these things. And this is why I'm so glad that we're able to offer a platform and, you know, give someone a voice when they might not otherwise have it. So I just appreciate you guys listening and supporting them in that way. Thanks, everybody. We were assuring her that our audience just is always so supportive. You guys really are. We love you so much. It's shocking, really, because this is a world where people victim blame, like, crazy. And to have such compassion and understanding, even when you guys don't relate to a scenario or whatever the story is, I'm just always blown away by the compassion.

And even if one person sneaks through and says something poopy, we just block them. Bye. But it's like barely anyone. It's the sense of community. I talk about it every single time. You guys hear me. I'm talking about the sense of community that you create for basically. anyone who wants to tell their story or needs to tell their story or doesn't have an outlet or

resources or support. And we can just be that for them. So thank you guys for being here and for listening to the show and listen next week for the second half. Yeah. Not to be annoying with a seamless transition, but it is a seamless segue and a Patreon. I don't want to just sell, sell, sell you guys. But we are really grateful for the Patreoners. It's only $5 a month. And part of why it's so special is because of the community. Like everybody's always in the chat, asking for advice, asking, telling funny stories about bad dates. Like, it's just a great group of people that relate to you.

Because if you're listening to us, you probably have similar values in terms of what we accept among people. We are not big dogfish fans. And it's just a nice group of them. I really love everybody. So just know that if we take time to respond to comments or emails, we are always trying to get to them. But Molly, shout out to Molly, producer Molly, gets a lot of emails.

She's legit. I don't know. She never sleeps. It's fine. No, for real. Do you want to say the email where people can send their stories to Ms. Molly? Yes, I will. The email is investigate at the datingdetectivespodcast.com. Send us your story and tell us what your experience is.

And we would love to be a voice for you or a platform. And you never know who you're going. to impact with your story. You never know who needs to hear it. You never know who needs to feel less alone. So just just yeah, pop in, tell us your story. And we would, we would love to hear from you. So thank you guys for listening to the show. And as always, trust your foundation.