The Dating Detectives - The Talented Mr. Dogfish

Episode Date: July 20, 2026

This week, a chance pandemic match seems to turn into the perfect relationship. Over the course of several years, Emily builds a life with a charming, successful partner who appears to check every box, earning the trust of her friends, her family, and eventually her future. But as plans for the next chapter of their lives begin to take shape, small inconsistencies start to surface, forcing Emily to question everything she thought she knew. In this episode, she shares an unbelievable story about deception, trust, and the lasting impact of discovering that someone may not be who they claimed to be.Are you in the Chicago, Tampa, or Orlando area and want to come see us live?! Get your tickets at the links below:7/16 in Chicago: https://tickets.thedentheatre.com/event/dating-detectives-llpj8q?utm_source=performer&utm_medium=performerlink&utm_campaign=datingdetectives8/5 in Orlando: https://www.etix.com/ticket/p/48863575/the-dating-detectives-live-orlando-funny-bone-comedy-club-orlando8/6 in Tampa: https://www.etix.com/ticket/p/35010834/the-dating-detectives-live-tampa-funny-bone-comedy-club-tampaClick here to join our Patreon! For only $5 a month you will get 2 extra episodes a month, monthly virtual live events, and access to our community page. And now for $9 a month you can get all of that, plus ad free episodes!If you've been dogfished and want to share your story on the show, email [e-mail] or contact us through our website using this linkThis episode of The Dating Detectives is sponsored by Shopify. Sign up for a $1/month trial at shopify.com/datingdetectivesThis episode of The Dating Detectives is sponsored by BetterHelp. Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/TDD.This episode of The Dating Detectives is sponsored by SKIMS. Shop the Everyday Cotton collection and all your favorite bras and underwear at skims.com, and select The Dating Detectives in the podcast survey after checkout.***The following Program contains names, places and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following Program is provided for entertainment purposes only and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances.If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 for support.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following program contains names, places, and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only, and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-723 for support. Happy dating Detectaday. Happy dating Detent Sunday. We love you guys so much. We just had the best time in Chicago. Thank you for everybody that came to our live show.

Oh, my God. I'm on a high. Last week was insane, amazing. And let me just say, as always, I want to express my gratitude. But man, you guys really showed so much love and support. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for supporting our show and listening. Thank you to our Patreoners. just all of our sleuties and for listening to the show coming to the live show and we just

we're obsessed with you the next live shows are going to be in Orlando August 5th and Tampa August 6th so if it's anything like the Chicago show we're like ah it's amazing the tickets are selling and they're linked below so go get your tickets if you're in Florida and also adding to your gratitude thank you for sharing stories with us that you all see online Our guest today, Emily, well, I'll tell you more about her in a little bit, but she, somebody, you know, you guys sent her TikTok to us. And it's such a good story today and also very, I know we say it every time, but like a very valuable story that is important to hear. Well, it so is because the more we share these stories, the more we're using our voice as a weapon to fight back against these situations that happen that everybody, we don't, nobody wants to talk about it because they're so ashamed. And so we really appreciate when you guys come on and so vulnerably share what happened to you so that we can, again, use our voices as a weapon.

So just so courageous. So thank you for engaging with that conversation with other people and sharing the show. If you're in Patreon, thank you, thank you. We do $5 a month and you get two bonus episodes and all kinds of other stuff and access to stuff before everybody else. Or we just get to like chat with you more in depth. and then you get all of that plus add free listening if you do the $9 a month. So thank you, Patreon. Thank you live show, get audience.

Thank you future live show audience. And thank you listeners. Thank you, McKenzie. I'm like, I feel like I'm accepting an award. I want to thank the Academy. We're still reeling. We're just obsessed with you guys. Let's just be real.

We're totally obsessed with you. So thank you so much. And yeah, I think you, this week's guest, you're really going to, I mean, I just, I don't understand how these folks are I don't understand I know I'm still confused but let's give Emily the floor and just hold on to your seat hold on to your pants because I need everyone's reactions and comments please thanks yes thank you for being here Emily we're so glad to have you I don't know how glad we are but thank you for being here and sharing your story thank you for having me we're happy to meet you we'll we'll say that it's great to meet you

guys as well. Well, take it away. You have the floor. Okay, thank you. Yeah, so I met Leo during the pandemic, early 2020. I was actually visiting a friend in Chicago at the time and ended up quarantining with her because that's when the lockdown started. But just after that, I met Leo on a dating app and we agreed to meet up. It wasn't a big date or anything. We just went on his rooftop and had some drinks and A COVID date. A COVID date, exactly. What dating app? I always like to know.

Hinge. I was actually just getting out of another relationship at the time, but was excited to meet new people. Wasn't really expecting much to happen, but we hit it off immediately, had great conversation. He asked me a lot about myself and vice versa. He was a couple of years older than me, like four years older than me. but he was funny, smart, checked a lot of the boxes I was looking for in a boyfriend and was really fun to talk to. We talked a lot about travel and work and random interests. We both really liked reading and had a lot of commonalities that were easy to chat about. What does he do? He told me that

he worked in investment banking at a large bank. I was also going into finance at the time. So we bonded over that. But yeah, just seemed very nice, normal, no red flags immediately. So we kept in touch, saw each other a few more times while I was in Chicago for about two months quarantining. And then I eventually went back to New York peak summer of 2020. And that's when we were deciding, okay, are we going to make it official and be exclusively boyfriend and girlfriend? That would mean the long-distance relationship since he was still based in Chicago. So I remember talking to my friends when I first got back to New York about this guy, and I didn't know if I should immediately jump into this next relationship or stay single because I had just gotten out of another relationship. But then I was like, oh, no, this is a really great guy.

Seems dumb to not date him just because, I don't know, I want to have fun in New York. I don't know. So I... Yeah, why not pursue it? Yeah. So we agreed to do long distance. He came to New York, met a lot of my friends. I was actually moving apartments with one of my friends, and he came and helped us remove so much stuff,

which I thought was so kind of him. All of my friends really liked him. He was really funny and eventually made individual friendships with my friends as well. How often did you see each other? I want to say maybe twice a month for about a week at a time. I stayed in New York the whole pandemic pretty much, and his job was remote, so he would come come to New York for a week, then go back to Chicago for a week, and go back to New York. That's a lot. That's a lot. And then outside of that, we did some random road trips

around New York and Connecticut and stuff together, which was nice. It was a really pleasant way to spend the pandemic, to be honest. And so we were dating for about a year. Then I got a job offer in Boston summer of 2021. How far is that from New York? Boston from New York. Is that like a four-hour drive. A four-hour drive, okay. So I moved up to Boston for work, and then we continued long distance. He was starting to go back into his job having to not be fuller boat. Sometimes he needed to be on site. So when I met him, he was in investment banking, but leaving that role and going into more of a financial consulting firm. And this was back when consultants would spend Monday through Thursday at their client's site and then go home for the weekend kind of thing.

So he was doing a lot of travel on site to visit his clients for work. And then on the weekends, he would come to Boston a lot instead of back to Chicago. So he just continued kind of long distance, but still saw each other very regularly. With the long distancing, was there any trust issues, any communication issues, or did it work out pretty well? There was no concern there. Yeah, not really any concern. I think I had some trust issues from my past relationship, but he always made me feel really secure about things. I didn't have a reason to believe that he was doing anything that I didn't like.

It felt like one of the healthiest relationships I had ever been in, which was super refreshing. And we didn't have a lot of disagreements or arguments or anything. When we did, we had very healthy styles of communication to kind of work through them. So it was really great. And as mentioned, he was a couple of years older than me. So I was like, wow, maybe it's because he's had more relationships and he's more mature. And like, he just gets it. I don't know.

Whatever. We'll get into that later. Oh, boy. I know. We're like gassing him up right now. I'm like, why are you here? This is wonderful. This is not, uh, which just makes it that much more concerning. But anyway, so we continue long distance, do some trips together and stuff. He continues to meet my friends. I've met some of his friends, his family. And then it's time for me to renew my lease in Boston. But now we're talking about getting a place together. So I end up staying in the the same building, but I get a larger apartment and we decide to share the rent. He applies to the lease and everything. Everything goes well. Oh, nice. Yeah, it was great. He gave up his apartment in

Chicago and moved his stuff to Boston, but it was great. He moved in and it was nice to know that even though he was still traveling a lot for work now every time he would come back to Boston so that like sometimes back to Chicago. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, that was. So yeah, that was. was exciting. He made more money than me, which was not a surprise to me because he was older. So we agreed to share rent proportionate to our incomes. And yeah, that was super comfortable for me. And throughout our entire relationship, he always paid for dinners and drinks and most of our trips and things like that. I would pay for like his birthday dinner or get him something. But for the most part, he was paying for everything that we did. So we were in Boston.

And then about six months into our lease, he was talking about how he was really burnt out with his job, wanted to go to a different company or not have to travel so frequently, just do something else. Which I understood. I could see how stressed he had been doing all the trouble all the time. And I think a lot of people in finance hit a point where they're like, okay, I want to pivot into something not as intense. Yeah, yeah. So that was not really a surprise for me. He decided to take some time off of his job. to apply to other things and just kind of figure it out. And we talked about what that would mean for our finances, like him contributing to rent and everything. And so that's when we had a big discussion about finances

and how long he could actually not work before it becomes a concern. What else came up in the finance discussion? Was that like a full disclosure or kind of just what we need to talk about because of rent? Sort of. He showed me some of his accounts to make me feel more comfortable, But he's like, I cannot never work again, but I'm fine for a while.

And we can continue life as usual. So I was like, okay, yeah, as long as you're not messing up my rent situation, like, we're fine. That was like, you weren't combining anything or anything like that. Exactly. So he left his job December 2020 slash January, 2023, that he left his job and started applying to other things. And so he started the interview process for this hedge fund that was based in New York. Not a surprise. It seemed like a normal trajectory for someone of his experience. And so started the interview process. I remember him spending a whole weekend working on this case study

locked in our office area working on it. We would talk about it a little bit. And then he was going through the interview process. I could hear him on these interview calls. I remember the final interview that he was doing. I was in the living room. Basically, I could see the back of his computer, but then he was facing me. Yeah, exactly. And the call was an hour and a half long, but I was just sitting there and pretending not to completely use drop, but also I was excited. So I was like, of course. Kind of trying to like help him up, basically. Was he wearing headphones? Yeah, he was wearing headphones. but he was talking through one of the case studies that he had been working on. Another week later, he got the job offer.

And we were very excited, went out for drinks to celebrate, but the job didn't start until, this was, I want to say, like, April maybe of 2023. And his job didn't start until June or July. So how long was he out of work by that time? Three or four months or so. Before he got the job offer, so around that April time, we were starting to plan our summer travel, and we had gotten a house in the Hamptons in prior years and just like renting it for like a month or so, and we would have friends come.

So we were looking at houses to rent or thinking maybe we'll go to Europe for two weeks or something. So we were kind of like looking around at all of these plans of what we were. we would do. And then he was like, would it be okay if you book these things and then I'll repay you when I start my job? And part of it was kind of like, I was, it was in the phase of I was doing some travel for work and I loved being able to get the points for stuff that I didn't have to pay for. So I was like, yeah, we could put it on my, I'll get five X the points or whatever. Let's do it. And I felt comfortable with it because I had seen the job offer. We had been together for over two years. I trusted him. Nothing had ever really been that much of a red flag. So. And he's paid for

everything up until this point. Yeah, everything, but like most things. Most things. Yeah. So I was like happy happy to help. And so I did. I booked our Hampton's house. And one of my friends was actually going to stay with us for that month. So he sent me some money for a room in the house too. But I fronted the whole cost, basically. And then we had booked a week in Europe. He had sent me the hotel. He had my credit card. And so I would just give it to him.

He would book it. And then I would just see the charge. And I don't know, it was fine. But I wasn't part of making the reservations or anything. Because I was still working. He wasn't working. And I was like, that's your job for right now. It will be the travel player.

What was he doing when he wasn't working? What was he doing with his day? He was working out a lot. I don't really know. I was going to the office a lot, so I don't really know what he was doing during the day. But he wasn't at home like playing video games. Like he was keeping himself busy. No, he'd go grocery stop.

He'd go into cooking. He would do a lot of cooking for us, actually, which was nice. Oh, nice. Okay. So he was doing something. He was enjoying his sabbatical. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

I was kind of jealous, honestly. I was like, I hope I can take a sabbatical at some point. Yeah. Starting something new is not just hard. It's terrifying. I love the stuff. podcast and I love what it's inspired me to do. One of those things was a self-defense workshop. And when I started it, I kind of was like, is this stupid? Is anybody going to care that I'm

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Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at Shopify.com slash dating detectives. Go to Shopify.com slash dating detectives. That's Shopify.com slash dating detectives. So while we were in the Hamptons, it was June. His job had started. So he was commuting into New York City to go to the office. We shared locations for years prior to that. Sometimes I would check in to see how long it would be for him to get home and stuff like that.

He was always where I assumed he would be at their office. And then I started asking for repayment for things. And there would always be an excuse for why he can't repay me right now. Or like, can we just wait to like the signing bonus? It'll come in the first 30 days. So by the time that he had started his new job and I was talking about being repaid for everything, he was talking about how he just wanted to move some funds around and he would like CC me on email threads with a wealth manager at UBS. And I chimed in at one point about like when can we expect X amount or whatever. And I would receive an email back from this email saying a specific date that the funds should be good to go.

And I was like, okay, well, this is a real person as verified by the company website and LinkedIn. The email address wasn't sketchy. It was very corporate. Yeah, yeah. And so I was like, okay. And his job was focused on the Asia Pacific region. So they invited him to go to their Hong Kong office. And again, a lot of companies let you book travel on your own card and reimburse it, or you can use a company card.

But for people that want to get points, people prefer to book on their own card. and get reinfected. And so he was like, did you want to book this and we can get the points and like, obviously like that. I was going to go with him to. Oh, you were. Okay. I was going to go with him. I've never been. I really want to go. And his hotel would be paid for by the company. I would just have to pay for my flight. So I'm like, yeah, sure. I can book the flights, whatever. And then he was out of town. I think he was in Chicago visiting his family. And so basically while we had this house and Hamptons, we were also moving out of our apartment in Boston and going to put stuff in storage for the month before our apartment in New York started. So we were moving out of Boston.

I was organizing everything for the movers and I found a second phone in our closet. My butthole clenched. I was waiting for something. And at first, like, maybe it's just an old phone, whatever, but it wasn't dead. So I was like, okay. And I don't remember what the past code was. Then I started like, I was getting like really anxious like I don't know I had no idea like your gut knew something was out yeah like my stomach dropped and I tried a few passwords I was literally

shaking and I got into the phone you you discovered the password just guessing yeah I don't remember what it was I knew the password to his other phone I never really looked through it but I just knew it because I would change music while we're driving or whatever and

I started looking through it and there were all of these texts with so many people that I didn't know and it was very evident that he was cheating on me. It was women. Yeah. And so many of them. And cheating on me in the worst ways, like, when I'm at work, they would come to our apartment. Shut up!

For some reason, I almost felt like he wasn't even in the state, but I felt like I had such limited time to go through it. And I had to find everything. And then at a certain point, I was like, okay, no, I need to go through this deeply. figure out what's going on and I started taking videos. And some of the things I saw were just so hurtful. I was like, I can't even look at this anymore. But I just remember, I don't think I'd ever known what shock actually was until that

moment because I was realizing how much the person I have lived with for the better part of a year has been lying to my face every single day. I found one where I was sick and I had gone to bed early and he had some one. one come over and they hooked up in the stairwell of our building. I was like, what? Like, while I was, I was like, we would agree. Oh, but like, that doesn't sound fun. Okay, when did this start? Does it go all the way back? Back to, I found all the way back to like 2020, this is 2023. So back to like 2022. But I'm sure that it had gone on longer than that. He just wasn't living with me before then. And things

I saw on the phone didn't really align with him being at his job five days a week as per I thought. Like he would see girls in New York while I would assume he was at his office. And I'm like, surely you can't leave your new job in the middle of the day. Yeah. Like what are you doing? I'm checking an extended lunch break today. I'm like maybe he's like paid for a we work and just invited them over and that's his office. Like I'm imagining. So strange. But I also knew the company. I knew the office. I had picked him up from that office building before. And so part of me was like, do you even really have this job? But then I was like, that's crazy. We're going to Hong Kong next week. That's crazy. To the extent that you're comfortable, can you share anything else that stood out to you

that you saw in that moment? So I noticed that a lot of them he had met on seeking or I guess I was seeking arrangements at the time, which is a site that connects women and men and like. In relationship, right, ain't it? Or no? Yeah, in relationships, but usually when there's a man or woman that has a lot of money and someone else is like... Oh, like sugar daddy stuff. Yeah, it's very much so, like a sugar daddy dating site. So I would see, hey, this is blah blah, blah from seeking or whatever. So when I went to Safari and I went on seeking and all of his history came up and it was just like seeking, seeking, seeking, seeking, seeking, all linked to his profile and it was the same login. So I logged in. I saw his profile. I saw his messages with other people, and I was like, what? So he's paying all of these people? Yes, but not all of them, because also in the text, I see girls that are like, this check didn't clear, you owe me money, like, all this stuff.

But then I also saw on Apple Pay, there was like minus 500, minus 1,000, minus. So, like, he was paying some people. He had booked trips for other people to hotels or flights or whatever. Flight? He had flown people into Boston. and would get them a hotel. There were messages talking about me, which was disturbing. What did he say about you?

Just that I would be at work or like I'm out of town a certain weekend. Or when I was sick, he was like, oh, yeah, she went to bed early. So he was not hiding that he was in a relationship. Yeah, no. That makes me sad. That makes me really sad. Just thinking about the people that are like, whatever. And what was really disturbing also is it almost seemed like some people had a cheating kink.

Like, it was, like, they got off on the fact that his relationship. Yeah. Yeah, it was adding to the whole experience, which I was like, I don't know, to reach the road, I guess. So I was like, shaking. I was in shock. I couldn't even believe. He was out of town, but I called one of my friends. I was like, Leo was cheating on me.

And she was like, what? How do you know? And I told her, like, all the stuff that I found. Yeah, pretty much. Like, all the stuff that I found on the second phone. And she was like, oh, my God, what are you going to do? And we decided eventually I wasn't going to tell him yet. So when I decided not to bring it up to him immediately, it was really hard.

And I had so much rage inside me that I wanted to just scream at him, honestly. But there was so much going on in terms of I didn't know where I was going to live after this house ended. I didn't know really how to approach the conversation without him continuing to lie to me. And there's just no headway you can make in a conversation if someone's not going to admit to the truth. I also knew how much money he owed me and I really want to jeopardize that in case he did have the job and he could pay me back. Like I didn't want to stir up so much drama that like he, like almost. like when you find out something to me because I'm going through your phone yeah like well like you invaded my privacy so I just wanted things to remain status quo until I felt like I had my feet under me

and then I could handle that whole conversation but I didn't know how it would go I didn't know what the end result would be and I felt like once I brought it up I couldn't go back from it because my immediate thought was well I'm paying for so much of our life right now are you using all of your money to pay them? Are you using my money to pay them? Why are you ripping so many of them off to? Also, how long have you been cheating on me? All this stuff. So that's a lot. It was a lot. And I was just kind of like, I really can't handle all this right now. I just need to move. I need to figure out how to get out of this relationship. I did not sleep that night. I just kept looking through everything. And I didn't know what to do really. What do you do? Yeah. I didn't want to immediately.

immediately confront him about it because also I'd seen how much he had lied to me just from the text. And I had no idea. So I'm like, surely he's not just going to come clean. And I don't have it in me to have this whole fight right now. Yeah. I'll do it later. So did you talk to him? Did you have to like text him? Good night. Love you. Yeah. I just continued as normal. I didn't want to talk to him on the phone because I was like. Yeah, I would sob. But like I was going to let it. Yeah, exactly. So the movers came. They packed everything up. They brought ourselves to storage. We went back to the Hampton's house. So you're like in person with him.

I guess in my head I thought he was maybe traveling. So you're with him keeping it together as much as you can. Yes. So he came home after you found it. Yes. He was visiting Chicago while I was doing some packing. And then we met back up in New York kind of after that. What is that?

What is it like to see the love of your life and pretend like you don't know what they've been up to? It was really difficult. I definitely took a lot more space than usual. Like usually I would be working from the living room or kitchen and we'd be together, but instead I would stay in the room and work. There was just so much of our life that was intertwined. Like we hadn't signed a lease on an apartment in New York yet. So all of our stuff was in storage.

We had this house in the Hamptons, but I didn't really know where I was going after that. And we also had that trip to Hong Kong coming up in the next week. And my plan for this was I knew that I knew that I was, I knew that I didn't want to have a normal vacation with this person, but I was like, once we get to Hong Kong, maybe I'll get my own room. I'll figure it out. Wait, you were still going to go?

I was still going to go. I still had my, honestly, like, I kind of just wanted to go. And I figured, I didn't know. Before I dumped this asshole, he's taking me to Hong Kong or I'm taking this, whatever. Yeah, and at this point, I was like, I'll probably still be refunded from the company. I'll get my own hotel room. He would be working for most of the day anyway. I'd be alone and I just won't do dinners and stuff with him.

I don't know. I was like, I can still have a nice time in Hong Kong, even if it's not a romantic trip, whatever. Good for you. You're better than me. Well, we'll see. But so we have packed all of our stuff. We drive to JFK. We had a late night flight at like 10 p.m. or something.

So we park in the car and parking. We take our bags on the shuttle, get to the terminal, and it's time to check in. And he was always really good with like, Like, he's very type A and I'm not. So he would handle all of our travel stuff. We get to the check encounter and the lady's asking for the tickets. And he's not doing anything.

I'm just looking at him and I'm like, where the tickets? Like, let's go. And he just stares at me and says nothing. And I'm like, you don't have tickets to Hong Kong, do you? And again, nothing. And I didn't know what to do you. Like, I'm not going to cause a scene in the airport. So we just grabbed our back.

I just got back on the show and went back to the car and I'm like, what the fuck? Like, wait, and you even, he had a flight that you were trying to make. Like, he knew the actual flight. He just did not have the tickets. Wait, didn't the money come off your credit card? Yes, but to be honest, I wasn't looking that closely. Like, so where did the, where did the money go? I don't know.

I eventually did the full audit of my expenses during that time. Yeah. And I don't really know. It just said like American Airlines. And then it was like just no ticket. ever produced were produced from that? Yes. My theory is maybe he bought points with it or he used it for other flights with other girls or something. He used the flights for them. That's the thing. It's like if you have a lot of flights on your statement, I get confused even in my emails sometimes and I don't travel

a ton. It's like, which flight is which? And then especially, it's not like it's saying like to Hong Kong on your credit card statement. So if you bought another flight, you would see it. That's what I thought. And so we get back to the car he's silent I was yelling for a second and then I was like honestly he was like in some kind of coma so I was driving

and then eventually we got back to the city and I was like get out the car gets out of the car and then I was having a complete breakdown and I drove up to stage and got a hotel and just stayed there for like two days so he had no answers like he just said nothing

like he was just yeah there was no explanation there was nothing and so then I was upstate. But I'm sorry, I need a little more. So what are you exactly saying? In the car? Like, are you just like, what the fuck?

And he just says, like, what, what's happening? And I brought up the cheating and I was like, I know that she was. Yeah. So, like, that's huge. And he just said nothing. He just stared straight ahead. And I was like, can you tell us? If you remember, can you walk us through that?

Like, what did you say? So we were walking back. We were on the shuttles, getting back to the car and everything. And I was asking a bunch of questions. I was like, why didn't you book? the flights. Are you ever going to Hong Kong? What is happening with this job? Do you even cover Asia? Do you even work there? And then I was like, how much are you lying about? I know that you're cheating on me. Like, how long is that? Like nothing, but he was giving me nothing. He was kind of teary-eyed and just not

saying anything. And my blood was just boiling. I don't know. I didn't know what to do. I remember he was like, yeah. I remember he was walking to the driver's side. And I was like, no, I'm driving. and he said nothing, just walked around to the passenger side, got in. And just got misty-eyed. Aw, boo-hoo. Why would he let y'all get all the way to the airport, though? Like, he knew. Did he just think the thing would, like, magically appear?

Like, I have no idea. Did he think you bought them? No. I have no idea. Like, my theory is that he just is unable to tell the truth, and he would, like, take a lie literally as, I'm sure if we could have gotten to Hong Kong and waited outside of a hotel for a reservation that didn't exist, we would have done that, too.

So thankfully that is not bad. He literally let you go all the way to the ticket counter before saying all. So there's something I got to tell you. It was so embarrassing. I was like, why are we standing here in front of this airport ticket counter? I just don't understand. I don't understand. I don't understand.

To this day, I don't understand. And this was like three years ago. So you got to the ticket counter. He's looking like a dumb like what's called. going on? I don't know. He's looking like a cardboard cutout, just staring at you. His face that is permanently burned into my brain when we were at the airport and I was looking at him and he was just had this blank, almost guilty look on his face of like, I have, I've got nothing for us. And my blood was like, I had never been so mad in my life, honestly.

So after the airport, told him to get out of the car and I drove upstate to crash out alone for a few days and that's when I connected with one of the girls he was having an affair with, just trying to piece more things together and get more information, probably to my own detriment. Oh, tell us, tell us, tell us. What happened? How did you get a hold of the sugar baby? From her number on his phone and he owed her money. She had flown to Boston multiple times.

They had gone on other trips together. Did she know about you? Yes. and he owed her money. What was really crazy about that also is that the phone that I had, like the second phone that I found, that number she associated with his assistant. And so she would have group chats with him and the phone number that I had for him. And then this other phone, and he would pretend to be his own assistant named Amelie.

What? I was like, what? So weird. So weird. I'm like, well, I guess that's what he was doing all day. When he wasn't working, he was making up a whole fake world with his assistant, Amelie, and coordinating trips. And this girl was so confused.

And I was like, this is the situation. This is him, his real number. He also is pretending to be his own assistant. And I am the girlfriend who has just found out about it. She asked me if I could help her in this situation. Help her! being stranded and she was talking about how she feels really used from this whole thing and he's not responding to her anymore and she doesn't know what to do and I'm like, girl, I can't.

Like, I have nothing left to me right now. I'm just, I'm sorry, but you got to figure it out. I'm trying to figure it out too. Do you know how much money he, I guess, helped her get out in New York, but do we know how much money she was owed? I don't know exactly how much. I saw other messages with other girls where he owed one, two thousand, one, 500, but I'm not exactly sure how those played out either.

He owed me about 60,000 at the time. Dollars! Oh my God, Emily, I'm so sorry that happened to you. This is like major financial news. American dollars! Yes, sadly. And so a day went by and then we talked on the phone. and I was like, I really need to understand what's happening right now. Like, honestly, I feel like I blacked out for most of this conversation.

And that's when he finally admitted that he didn't have this job. He was like, yeah, I need to tell you that I actually don't work at so-and-so. And I asked him, I was like, so where were you going every day? I saw your location at their office. and he just kind of said, like, he would give me some things, but he didn't give me answers to everything. He didn't answer that question. Again, it was just silence. And I was like, are you ever going to tell me what is fully happening here?

And he was like, well, what do you want to know? And then I asked him again, and he was silent again. And I was like, okay, like, I don't understand. Okay, okay. So what, yeah, what did you get from him? Just that he didn't have the job. He didn't have the money to repay me. and that he had cheated on me, but it's not what I think.

And I'm like, what do you mean? It's not what I think. I found this other phone. And he was like, oh, but that's from so long ago. And I was like, no, it's not. You know, they have dates on text messages. And when he admitted to not having this job, he did tell me what his job was, which was he worked at this philanthropic organization to help them raise money.

This company was based in Cleveland. and I knew that for a while while he was having his consulting job, he was doing a lot of work in Cleveland. I had gone with him at one point just to hang out for a few days. But come to find out, his whole company there thought that he lived in Cleveland. But every time he would go, he would just pay for a hotel out of pocket to work there for the week. What? And this was when he was consulting, not when he got the hedge fund job?

This was the job. So he told me he worked in consulting. and that was the job he was burnt out of and wanted to quit. Come to find out that job never existed. He was working for this other organization who thought he lived in Cleveland, but he was actually just paying probably like $6,000 a month to go to this hotel every week and pretend that he lived there to work there Monday through Friday. Where he does have a home.

We were living in Boston together at the time. I'm so confused. He was still going to Cleveland. Wait, so what did he? So he never had. When you met him, the job he had never worked in finance, basically. Oh my God. Yeah.

He never worked in finance. He also told me that he had gone to Northwestern to get his MBA. That's a good thing. He doesn't have an MBA. Wow. Never went to business school. Did anything ever come up when you were with his family where you'd say like, oh, yeah, North, look, there's a Northwestern T-shirt.

Like, we're not really. We never really discussed work when we were all together. And looking back, and I'm like, how has that never really come up? But every time we talked about work, it would just be super casual. How's work going? Oh, it's good. It's stressful or like I'm traveling a lot.

I don't know. It's just very generic. Well, he might have been telling them that he had a finance job. Yeah, I don't know exactly what he told them. I don't know exactly what he told his friends. I have no idea. And I also realized this wealth manager wasn't real. He was impersonating this wealth manager.

How did he impersonate the, how do you do? Oh, my God. Yeah, get the email address like that. That's so wild. That's so wild. He did his research, though, because he was a real person as verified by online sources. I was emailing with someone who had the UBS bank email address, and it was a real person. I saw them on the company website, but it wasn't him that I was speaking to.

I wasn't actually speaking to him. And then that interview? When he interviewed for the job? Yeah, he was just like talking to someone or. Or himself. No, talking to himself for like hours on end. I don't know why he would dedicate an entire weekend to a case study that didn't exist. Or why you would commute four hours a day to get to Manhattan to go to a job you don't have.

Just mind-blying. That's a lot to follow through with this lie. Yes, agreed. Which is why every time I would have some kind of, I always just cracked it up to my anxiety because I was like, well, no one would go this far. to lie, but they do. So for three years he didn't ask for any money, and he is acting like he has a finance job and is paying for everything. Where do we think he got that money?

I have no idea. Oh, my God. I wonder. I'm wondering, like, was I the sugar baby to someone else's? Oh, my God. I have no idea. I have no idea. Because I did see his accounts at various points, and it had money.

And we did a lot of things together. that cost money and I wasn't paying for them. So he had money at some point for something. Yes, but the job that I found out that he had, there's no way that he could afford that off of what he was making. So I don't know where all of his fans came from. Yes. Oh, my gosh.

And then I also brought up, it seems like you owe a lot of other people money. He's like, that's all been sorted out. And I'm like, so did you cheat on me? paid them or did you cheat on me and never pay either way like it is if you're going to cheat on me at least pay them right you promised it but then whose money are you paying them with exactly and i'm like so why don't you have well presumably you have no money to repay me because you've used it all on paying them or not paying them or whatever and then eventually i was just like i can't i feel like i got the answers that i needed which were he's lied to me about so many things and he can't repay me and i'm

I was like, okay, I need to go. There's really nothing more to talk about. Like, the cheating honestly was like the least of my concern at this point. I was just like, I need to get an apartment. I need to like get all of my stuff out of my share. You got to figure out what you're going to do for your life. Yes, exactly. You guys, I have to tell you about my undies.

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Select podcast in the survey. And be sure to select our show in the drop-down menu that follows. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. The stigma of mental health gets in the way of people actually getting the support that they need. Even though we talk more now about mental health than we, have in the past. Asking for help can still feel really hard and actually BetterHelp's latest research confirms that. Better Helps 2026 state of stigma report surveyed 2,000 Americans and revealed that 85% of Americans believe that getting support is wise, but 74% say that society

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I really appreciate that they narrow down the therapist that they recommend based on the questionnaire that I fill out and then I can switch my therapist at any time as it's comfortable for me. Don't let stigma stand in the way of support. Start therapy with better help. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com slash TDD. That's better h-elp.com slash T-D-D. Then I remember I was staying with a friend for two weeks. thankfully, I was a disaster. I would not have survived this period without my friends. And are you still working at this Boston job? Are you trying to get a new job in New York? So I actually had just gotten a new job. Of course, to make it easier. Yes. I was fully remote, so I was going to be in New York. And I was just starting it like

June of that year or something. It was like the last part of our time in the Hamptons. And then for most of July, I was staying with a friend, kind of figuring all of this stuff out. I signed a lease in New York. And then I needed to get all of our stuff from storage. So I call the moving company and I'm like, hey, I need to deliver these items to New York. And they're like, well, we can't do that because we were actually never paid for moving you out of your Boston department. I'm like, what are you need? Because I specifically remember sending him much for the move.

And I'm like, well, where did that go? So then I had to pay for the move again and then pay for. everything to be moved to New York and I was like honestly I'm just moving all of his stuff too I'm just gonna take it and I'm gonna put it in storage and like sell this maybe I can get like some yeah not by like selling his bed selling his couch whatever

but he keeps calling me and texting me and he's like I need my stuff and he's like I don't know I guess he also was trying to get some of his stuff back at this time like I don't know how you were going to get it back but you also have to pay them again but then he was like talking about him needing his stuff back and I was like I just consider this me behind you out.

I just had to pay to move all of this stuff, go figure it out. And none of his outreach is about trying to get back together? Sort of. He would text me and be like, we really need to talk, all of this stuff. I'm like, no, there's really nothing more to talk about. He would call and FaceTime me all the time, and I wouldn't answer unless it was a specific logistical thing that I needed. But then he, and I don't know how he found out where I lived, but he would start

showing up outside of my apartment. I remember I was coming home from lunch or something one day with my friend and we see him sitting on the stoop of my apartment and I'm like, what? What are you doing here? And we didn't go. We kept walking down the other street and I was like, what is happening? What is happening? And then I finally went back and he was still there and I wouldn't let him into the building. It was just a huge mess. And then he was in Chicago and he had to go to the hospital for some reason he was sending me hospital photos and he was like, I feel so terrible. I really just need to talk to you. And I'm like, I don't care. I was like, I don't care. I don't believe that. For a second. I think he stubbed his toe and made a thing of it so he could send you sob story

pictures. It was insane. Like, is he telling any of your mutual friends anything about your breakup? No. So I told, I mean, it was really embarrassing. So my closest friends knew the details. And then I just told everyone else we broke up. I really, very appreciate it. If you don't continue to update him on my life and preferably you kind of cut ties. But I also had never been the person who was like, oh, we broke up and you can never speak to them again. But I was also like, this is a situation that I want everyone to be as far away from as possible. Well, at some point, it's like if he did this to you, he would do this to someone else.

Totally. And then I also never reached out to. his friends or anything, eventually months later, because my credit is now fucked for a lot of the better word, because I put all of this stuff on my card that I can't really afford on top of paying for my whole life. I remember actually I had gotten approved for an apartment and I felt so lucky because it was a week before I was about to get my next credit statement. It was right before my credit score took a pretty big hit because I wouldn't have paid back

this amount of money and I was like, thank God I got approved. but I still had good credit. So eventually a few months later, my friends were like, you need to reach out to his parents, ask them for money. So I worked up the nerve to send. I put him, his mom and his dad in a group chat. And you had already met them by this point, right? Didn't you say you met them?

Yeah, we'd gone on vacation with them. But they didn't really say anything. They didn't reply to the message. And then separately, he texted me. And he was like, my parents aren't going to be responsible for the situation. I'm like, okay, whatever. I was kind of shocked. I mean, I guess as a parent,

I wouldn't want to take on responsibility for my kids' mistakes. But also, I'd feel bad for the person that he hurt. Yeah. And I would probably want to help him. I knew that he was living with them. I don't know. I don't know.

I'd be like you go get a job and pay that girl back. Right? Yeah. I don't know. It's not like he's dumb. Like, it's not like he doesn't have the experience to get a job. job that pays well, right?

Like, he... Exactly. Educated, well-educated dude. Like, there's nothing stopping him. Yeah. He could be a model scout. There he go. Goodness gracious.

Okay, so you're not getting anything from him. No. And I tried to look down the paths of suing him, but unfortunately, I can't sue for legal expenses. But I'd been advised, depending on how long it drags out, it could rack up to...

It would cost you more money than anything. Yeah, about as much as he... owes me. Is there any, I guess we've talked about this a little bit in previous episodes. So even though you consented to giving him this money, he didn't use it for what he said he was going to. Which is a crime. Yes. And we had very basic contracts or whatever, but I did want it in writing that I would be repaid by a certain time. Oh my God. You had it in writing and he was like, yeah. Totally. No problem. Yeah. Yeah. So if anyone knows a program, bono attorney let me know. But yes, that's currently where we stand. I haven't been repaid.

Wait, when did this? When was the... This is 2023. In New York. So you're looking for a pro bono attorney in New York who's willing to take this on and help you... Or Chicago, I guess, because that's where he's based. I don't really know the jurisdiction that it would need to be in. I mean, it happened across Massachusetts, New York, and Illinois. So when you got into your new apartment, talk about trying to get back to yourself, financially and emotionally. Yeah. I definitely carried a lot of trust issues with me to every relationship, whether it was a friendship or dating. Now you're like everybody's lying because I trusted him and now everybody can just lie to all the green flags. You, it takes one person for you to see how easily people can

lie to your face. Yes. And that's what was so shocking. I was like, Like, I know people can lie, but I think the extent to which that he would take the lies, like, going all the way to the airport, pretending to be in an office all day. Like, I don't, was he just sharing locations from another device or would he literally just sit outside of an office for eight hours a day? I have no idea. Why do we, I mean, you said you're not, obviously, I get wanting to cut ties, but do we see anything on social media? LinkedIn. I have blocked him on everything. I would still get random texts in FaceTime from him all the way up until I didn't block him on text until

summer of last year and I would still get like random texts and FaceTime's that I never answered. I think part of me was just hoping that one day I'd get an Apple pay for like $10,000 if he'd start paying that. That would be nice. Yeah. What was he saying in these texts? You would just be like hi or hey or I'd look at my phone and see a missed FaceTime call. And then I started dating someone else. Yeah.

That's crazy. Crazy. I'm like, what do you even think I would respond to that? Like, oh, hey, fella. Good to see you. It's insane. I have no idea. So eventually I just blocked him completely, and I have no idea where he is or what he's

doing in his life or anything. Was there any point after you found this out that you looked back and you were like, oh, my God, that was a red flag. Because hindsight, it's always 2020. Kind of. I mean, there was one time where he was coming. coming home from a work trip and I was at the office and I left the office early to surprise him. I thought we could spend the afternoon together and let's hang out because we hadn't seen

each other all week. And he was so angry at me for coming home and not telling him. But that was because he had just flown someone in and he was planning to go meet them at the hotel per the text that I found. Oh my God. And I couldn't figure out like why he was so angry. Because you ruined his date with his sugar beans. Yes. Yes.

Oh my gosh. And if you are going to surprise him, he's like, like, how can I have girls over at random hours if I don't know when she's going to come in? Yeah, how can I cheat if you're going to come home early? That's stupid. Emily, how dare you? I know. And then there was another time, summer of 2021, I was on a work trip in New York, but we were going to the Hamptons with some friends. So he was going to meet us from Boston in the Hamptons, and I was going to travel there with my friends from the city. And he was running really

late. He said that he had some issues at the bank that he had to take care of and he ended up being like six hours late to the Hamptons. And I was like, what are you doing at the bank that takes so long to sort out? And he was talking about how he had the margin call on his investments, meaning like, he would like borrow against his stock portfolio, but it dropped in the markets. And so his low needed to be readjusted, whatever. I was like, I don't know. I was like, this is not my problem. And I don't really want to think about it. And we weren't combining finances at the time. And I was like, That's your issue. But your finance girl did what he was saying makes sense?

Like he, like you were like, oh, did he talk to talk? Yeah, he definitely did. And a lot of my friends also work in finance. One of them worked at a competing hedge fund.

And I remember them talking a lot about this new job that he was starting. He fit right in. Oh, my God. This is so bizarre. It's very, like, talented Mr. Ripley. He really fit the part. So he knew what he was talking about,

although he didn't go to school. for it. He still knew a lot about finance. Yes, except for, I remember while we were dating, I was applying for other jobs and stuff and a lot of what I needed to do for the interview processes were case studies and financial models and I would ask him for help with things. And I remember sometimes he would talk with me through these things and it wouldn't really make sense as to what I would do, but I just kind of trusted him because he had been working and banking far longer than I had and I was like, oh, that must be correct. And so I would kind of like, and you trust this guy. Yeah. Yeah. And so I don't even want to think about how many jobs I didn't get just because I was like,

oh, he must have been right. Oh my God. Wait, that's crazy. That's insane. Wow. So you're a couple years out and you did eventually want to share on TikTok the story. So how's that been? What got you to that point. For a while, I couldn't even talk about it without just feeling completely retramatized again. I didn't want to think about it. Even when I was looking into suing him, I couldn't really focus on it for more than 30 minutes without getting completely overwhelmed. By this point, I've gone through other relationships that I felt were like somewhat healing. I've had a long time to process and I don't feel as ashamed of it anymore. Yeah. It's like embarrassing. It's so embarrassing. It's so embarrassing because everyone's going to think, oh, that was stupid of you. But I'm like, honestly,

I hope in the future still that two, three years into a relationship with someone, I trust them enough to, I don't know. Well, that far into a relationship, that's a pretty good time. It's not like you're two weeks in and you're trusting him. This is someone that you've built a life with. Like, what the hell? Exactly. And people have brought up the point about AI now. Think about all of the other things he can face now because of this. And also, I don't know if he's, He's still doing the same thing of trying to date other people. Of course he is. Yes.

And then also the more that you talk about it, like maybe I will find someone who can help me figure the situation out or like, I don't know. I'm just so tired of carrying like all the consequences of this while like he's probably gotten none. So. He's just getting laid in stairwells. It's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Good for him.

Anybody in the comments ever say like, I think I know who this is? yes some people have i haven't like fully been able to verify it those groups on facebook are redating the same guy i've thought about posting in there and i would really like to like i had honestly to like completely dissociate from it even when i was talking about it on tictock i have an whole album on my phone still of like all the screenshots and stuff that i found at the time and I was going through it. And the whole airport thing, I forgot that happened until I found messages of me talking about that.

And I was like, oh, my God, I forgot about that. And I forgot about talking to this girl until I was going through it again. And I was like, wow, I really dissociated hard for like the last three years. Maybe that's why I'm okay now because even when I was going, looking at stuff again, I was like, wow. Yeah, that was insane. I think I just spent so much time trying to make me memories and forget about him and forget that all of that happened, even though the financial piece still affects me.

So that's the part that I remember most. But I think the multiple layers of the cheating and the lying and how far he took things. And all of that, I tried to just kind of sweep under the rug to have any sort of healthy relationship with friends, family, other boys, like, because I don't know, I just couldn't carry all of that with me. And like, I think part of what helped my healing journey is trying to remember that this, while it's not like an isolated incident, and people do lie and are insane, not everyone is like that and just trying to remain open to new experiences. Yeah. And if you can only do so much healing on your own, yeah, you need to have new experiences that reinforce that things are okay. You can have a

healthy relationship and not everyone lies. And so, So I feel like I spent a lot of time isolating myself. But until I have more relationships with people that were healthier and they didn't lie to me and they didn't scam me out of money, it's really hard. And I feel like everyone, a lot of people, especially after I shared on TikTok, we're like commenting like I would never be in a relationship again, blah, blah, blah. But you would have such a hard time, yeah. Yeah.

But it's so isolating. And the thing that helped me most to heal was to remain open and still careful and things. But that's so brave of you. be open to the new experiences because like you have to retrain yourself to know that this is in like you can. And also what are the chances that something like that happens again? Yeah, exactly. I'm like so technically I don't think it will happen again. Hopefully things crossed. Yeah. How has dating been if you want to tell us? Yeah. I well like you know, dating in New York is interesting in itself. But I've had situations

with people. I was in a relationship last year. That was pretty healthy. We're not together anymore. but it had nothing to be with him. He had a job and it was his job. Yes, that's another funny thing. He was also very kind of successful, more successful than most people, his age. And I remember my friends are like, okay, well, we have to, we have to verify this.

Like, we have to like really do it. Trust and all willy-nilly. Trust, but verify. Yes, exactly. So it's definitely been interesting. Like, I'm just, it's just so humiliating and disgusting and violating. and like I was so uncomfortable in my own skin and I even had like sometimes like I want to say it was almost like PTSD like even when I was like working or just going about my day I would see the

messages in my head again and flinched because I'm like oh like it's just I can't get it out of my head and I have a visceral reaction to seeing these things and I remember one time I was up run with my friends and I was like and I flinched and I was like no and they were like one What are you okay? I'm like, yeah, I'm just having flashbacks and all this stuff I saw on this phone. And that happened months randomly. Wow. It was exhausting.

I was like, why am I having like PTSD from like text messages? But it was just truly so vile. Like it impacted you too much. Yeah. I think he was also because like I trusted him so much. But then it's like you, you almost, I don't know if you're like most people, most people feel like they blame themselves because how did I, not see it? Why, how did, and then you feel stupid because now it's like I can't even trust myself to protect myself. Yes, totally. There is a long period of me not feeling like I didn't want to

make any kind of decision because I felt like I couldn't trust my own decisions. Yeah, I'm stupid. I can't make my own decisions. I made this big one and this was very bad and now you can't trust yourself. And if you can't trust yourself, who can you trust? It's a spiral. Yeah. It was really, really tough. And I think that's why I just tried so hard to forget about so many things because I didn't know how to really handle it. More should you have to know how to handle that? You're definitely not an idiot. And thank you for telling us the story because you are a very good example of somebody

who's not an idiot who protected themselves, who's a hardworking person. And it can happen to you too. Like it can happen to anyone. and it is very valuable to hear women like you share your story because you will make a lot of people feel less alone and theirs. So thank you for sharing on TikTok and then coming to talk to us. Yeah, thank you for having me.

Another comment I saw was like, I don't know, something about just like trusting people, but it's like no matter like how much you look into something, like someone who has staked their whole life on a lie, like they're lying for their life. They're always going to have a reason. They're always going to have an excuse. No matter how much you check,

they will have something that checks out until you get to the airport and realize there's no flight. And that's why we go to therapy, y'all, because we just have to learn to accept the maybe of life and that's tough. That's tough to do. Let's do it together. Yes.

Oh, my God. This guy. And it feels like there's no resolution. You still are out that money. You're still suffering the consequences of this. And that's the most frustrating part. Now I feel I have healed mostly from the emotional part of it, but it's still tangibly impacting my life. Like my credit is like a tangible sign.

Yeah. Yes. And I've had to pay for things that I didn't want to because like, why did I pay to move our stuff twice? And it's frustrating also all the things that I could have been doing. Yeah. This whole time had I not had this hanging over me and also knowing that I don't know, like, I don't know what he's doing. He was like living with his parents, but like, I assume he's gotten some kind of job in the last three years, and he's probably now has a new apartment and continuing

his life as if, like, he doesn't owe someone $7,000. So that's frustrating. Insane. I hope karma catches up. Me too. That's insane. I can't with this fella. I cannot. Like, where, I want to know where he is. I want to know what he's doing. I am moving to New York and I have a lot of friends in New York and we joke about like, oh, the finance bros, red flag, but it's like, at least most of them are actually finance bros. I know, right? I can't believe that someone went to the lengths of, well, first of all, why go so long? Just you spend all this time like not doing anything that we know of.

And then all of the sudden now you're a jackass and you're like, I don't. get it. I don't get this time. I don't understand any of it. I don't get it. Well, I can understand building a foundation with her. Like, I, you know, he, I think he could have feelings for her that are genuine in his way. I don't think they're like normal person feelings, but. And then, right? And then you get security out of sharing an apartment with her, which is like, okay, he locked that down. He's got his home base. He can live his high life. now. Like I understand the motivation as much as it is abysmal. But then, yeah, I think you were on to something when you said maybe he realized she found out because why else would it just blow up

randomly? Why else would he just stand there at that airport counter? Yeah. He was frozen. It was like he was frozen in fear. And I feel like there was no indication based on her story that she was going to be some kind of cash cow. Like, right. I just, I don't understand where he thought she was going to. It was like all of a sudden he just said, hey, can you put this on your credit? And little by little just started using her credit. I don't think she had a bunch of cash. No, she didn't have 60K in cash.

Of course. I think he was using her credit and ruining her credit, shall we say. It was a good warning sign to me because I am the person that's like, oh, put it on my card. I want the points. I want the points. And I've gotten more into that recently. and not that it's a bad thing,

but I just got to remember, you know, don't. But you're in your 30s now. We really, then you cannot pay back. As you become a grown-up, you start to see that the points are actually so much fun. They're so fun.

However, they're too fun when you can't actually pay the credit card back. And I think it's the same thing. You know, we always say, don't loan anybody money if you can't live without it coming back. Just be ready to give it to them. Let's think of credit cards the same way.

Yeah. It's a good reminder. I feel like a little bit of, I don't want to speak for Emily, but it seems like she was in shock. Like she couldn't confront it right away just because of the sheer shock of everything. Isn't that what it seems like to you? Like you're, you find this out, but there's been no red flags or any indication whatsoever that this person is a skis ball. And all of a sudden it slaps you in the face besides the fact that she hadn't been feeling very great.

She was feeling it was manifesting physically. But other than that, she didn't have any indication that this guy wasn't jerked. And I've been there in my way. I haven't been there, and I'm very grateful for that, but where you have so many other areas of your life that could be the source of your anxiety. So it's very easy to write off. So how do you say, like, oh, this is him for sure?

Like, you don't think that. She's like, I just got a new job. I'm moving. Of course I'm anxious. Yeah. Also, I'm glad that, like, she described blocking those memories, disassociating afterwards, almost lacking out in some of those conversations. Yes.

And I know it's hard to understand. And I have never experienced that. So we have to acknowledge that and just be like, I don't, I cannot speak to what she went through. And I also can't deny it at all because I think everyone handles it differently. Some people are like, you know, fight or fight or fight or flight or freeze. And some people are fight. Some people are a different one on a different day. And it's not anybody's fault the way they respond.

We're not wired to respond to this. Yeah. And it's a to forget or not to remember whatever is. it's a trauma response and I just for example, I have a little bit of a traumatic childhood and I don't remember much of it. And so I'm learning more about it as I get and my brain is allowing me to process those thoughts through therapy and everything. But I have totally disassociated from my childhood because of how traumatic it was for me. And I can only imagine someone like her going through this and I'm sure she was thinking about a future with this person. Like you're thinking of

your whole life and then all of a sudden it's ripped out from under you, I could totally see why she disassociated from it. Oh my God. And then I'm glad you like use the, or she, one of you said, it seemed like they had like cheating kink. Yeah, that's what she said that they had, and I think that's a real thing too. Okay. So we are obviously sex positive here, the dating detectives and we are not kink shaming, but I will happily kink shame if your kink hurts people. Yeah. Like that is the line. Because there's no consent. So kink is a thing, right? But it's safe, sane, and consensual.

When we talk about BDSM or kink or anything like that, the rule is safe, safe, sane, and consensual. But this person was, she was not consenting. So that takes away that part of the triangle that you need to have a, like, that takes that takes that away. I would also argue the sane part is not there, but I guess that's just me. Right? No, it's true. And so you take away safe, sane, and consensual and you no longer have a kink. you're just cheating.

Like, it's not okay. I've been thinking a lot about our episode with other Emily. Your last week and the week before. Yeah, we got a lot of Emmys. But how we talked about the way that her parent and then her dogfish was able to shape her experience because she was so young and groomed that experience. So say, like, oh, this, what is abuse, I can define as love to you. Yes.

And I think sex is very much. much that way for young people. Sure. Where the first experience you have could be with someone older that tells you, oh, you're shaming me if you're saying my cheating kink is bad. You know what I mean? So it's like, even though it seems kind of obvious at times, I think it's important to talk about how, yeah, anybody that's doing anything, safe, same consensual.

Yeah. And I love how she talked about healing. She's open to, yeah. Yeah. Healing happened when she maintained openness and kindness and desire to connect. Trust but verify. Google the crap out of every single person. And I don't even care if their LinkedIn is right now.

At this point, I imagine her going on a date and being like, if we're not going to your company holiday party and I'm not face to face with all of your coworkers, we're not doing it. Like, I would be in the office delivering lunch. But good for her because I was thinking the whole time, I'm like, man, I wish I was like her. because if you hurt me, I'm going to be closed off. Like, I'm like, well, I don't trust nobody ever again.

Never. Just don't, don't. And to this day, I refuse. Like, I don't trust nothing to nobody. And I'm 42 years old who's had some experiences. And I refuse. But she's very, she's very adamant about keeping her heart and her mind open.

And there's something to be good for that's, that deserves an applaud. Because it's not what are the chances that it happens again, which it could, obviously. but she's saying, no, I really still believe in this. And I think that's incredible. I love how you talked about how her trust in herself eroded after. And she validated that saying how hard it was to make big decisions afterwards.

Well, because if you can't even trust yourself, what a shitty feeling that is to know that you like she, okay, so this guy ruined her trust, right? Sure, it's his fault. It's not her fault. But she thinks in her head, now her head is like, God, I can't even. even trust myself to make these decisions. That's a horrible place to be in. And you're like, I can't even live my life. I can't even trust myself.

That is a shitty feeling. I get it. And I think a lot of us have been there. And that's where that feeling of stupidity comes in. Like, how could we let ourselves feel that way? And of course, it's never our fault. But we do feel like that we take the blame. And it can hold us back.

So the fact that she's just willing to stay open is just so incredible. I have something to learn from for sure. Absolutely. I mean, this is a tough one. She did not to say that we never want to make it seem like, oh, she did everything right. So, like, it's not that anybody in the past has ever done anything wrong. It's just that this guy really showed no signs.

Unless I'm curious, if anybody's been in a similar situation, I hope not, but are there parallels to your experience, behavior that you recognized before all hell broke loose that you've seen before, that we can learn from. I mean, I hate having to. But if you have had somebody that's been taking your credit card and spending it on seeking arrangements or similar financial fraud, sugar baby,

and just the funny, it's so funny how many sugar daddies are probably just deadbeat. Yeah, and to be fair, to be fair, nobody's kink shaming the whole sugar baby's sugar daddy. I don't shame sex work. Like sex work is work. Nobody's shaming. I don't, whatever. I don't, I don't shame it.

Safe, sane, and consensual. Well, it has to be legal too. But that's not. But you know what I mean? Like, I don't, I'm not going to shame anybody for it. Like, that's your life. Do whatever you got to do. Sex work is work.

I don't care. But there's a line that you draw and it's like, you hurt people. Yeah, you know about this other person and you're not, how safe is this? How safe is this with this? TDs. How safe is this with maybe a physical position that now she's going to be in? What liabilities do we have if she finds out and she confronts him? Is he going to get violent?

Like there's way too many, there's way too much liability. It's scary. It's so scary. But nobody thinks about that. We will pass on any messages to Emily. If you have experienced something or if her story spoke to you or you just want to send support, there's a comment section on Spotify, I know. Wherever you're listening might have one, but we're always on social media at Dating Detectives Podcast, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube shorts. We've been posting more YouTube shorts. Thank you very much.

I love that. I've been doing that. And if you have a story that you want to share with us, please be patient as we read them because we do get a lot, but we welcome your story. We would love to be an ear or a platform for you. Our email address is investigate at the dating detectivespodcast.com. And again, thank you so much for an incredible show in Chicago.

We cannot wait to see all of you who are. coming to Orlando and Tampa. I know there's going to be a couple that come to every single show because we have some diehards and you guys are insane and we love you. We love you. And if you have a story in Orlando or Tampa and you're like down to come on stage and share it with us. Yes.

You can send us an email at that address as well. Yay. Let's chat. If you've ever like needed to hear us in person be like, what? That's crazy. It's not your phone. Like this is your chance. And thanks again to Emily.

We will make sure to send your night. message. Our audience is so amazing. You guys always send the best messages, so thank you. And as always, trust your spend tuition. I hope that comes in your head too. Love you.