The Dating Detectives - The Trauma Bond

Episode Date: August 19, 2026

This week on The Dating Detectives, Mackenzie and Hanna sit down with Lauren, whose relationship with a charming, attentive man slowly transformed into a terrifying cycle of manipulation, abuse, apologies, and increasingly desperate attempts to leave. Lauren opens up about the trauma bond that kept pulling her back, the shame and confusion that can make leaving feel impossible, and what happened when the situation escalated far beyond a toxic relationship—eventually drawing the attention of the FBI and leading to a federal witness tampering case. Click here to join our Patreon! For only $5 a month you will get 2 extra episodes a month, monthly virtual live events, and access to our community page. And now for $9 a month you can get all of that, plus ad free episodes!If you've been dogfished and want to share your story on the show, email [e-mail] or contact us through our website using this linkThis episode is sponsored by We-Vibe. Visit wevibe.com and use code DATINGDETECTIVES at checkout for 20% off your first order.This episode of is sponsored by ZBiotics. Get 15% off at zbiotics.com/tdd with code TDDThis episode is sponsored by Shopify. Sign up for your free trial period at shopify.com/datingdetectives.This episode is sponsored by OSEA. Get 10% off your first order sitewide with code DATINGDETECTIVES at oseamalibu.com.***The following Program contains names, places and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following Program is provided for entertainment purposes only and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances.If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 for support.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following program contains names, places, and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only, and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-723 for support. Happy dating detectives Wednesday. Thank you for your patience. Again, we want to support all of our guests and let them tell their stories in the way that's comfortable for them. So when someone backs out, I think that's, I think that we should respect that. So thank you for being here with us and understanding.

But we do have a new episode for you today. And this one's going to, this one's, I think, I think many people are going to be nodding their heads just like I was the whole time. This is a tough one. This is not that any of them aren't, but this one, our guest, Lauren, is very vulnerable sharing one of those classic cycles of abuse. There's some physical abuse for sure. There's a lot of emotional abuse of manipulation. And he is awful. I mean, yeah, this is one of those cases where people on the outside probably can't even fat.

I mean, I know for a fact. We can't fathom what it's like until we're in it. And I think that's why it's so important to. hear someone tell it in their own words. Yes, I agree. Yeah. It's really important that we just continued, meet them where they're at,

and until you're in it, you don't know what you would do. And so it's interesting when we hear these stories, and it's like, gosh, why don't you leave? Well, like, there's just no... There's more to it than that. There's more to it. It's more nuanced than that.

Yeah, so our guest is Lauren and share all of your support with in the comments anywhere on Spotify, you can comment or at Dating Detectives podcast on socials or on Patreon. Thank you if you have subscribed to our Patreon. It's $5 a month for extra episodes. But yeah, that's kind of our housekeeping. And Lauren is fantastic.

And we can't wait to introduce you to her. And it's a tough one. So hopefully you can't relate. But if you have, you're not alone. Yeah. So thank you again. Let's get into it. Let's let Lauren tell her story.

Hi, Lauren. We're so glad to have you here. Thank you so much for coming to share your story. We'd love to give you the floor so you can take us away. Awesome. Thank you for having me. Of course. Of course.

So when I first met Jake, we met through Instagram. We added each other just on Instagram. We followed each other for a little bit. And he started off just like if I post with a selfie of myself or something, he would respond to that. Like fire emoji. Yes, yeah, or like a rose emoji or something like that. And then we started chatting back and forth just as friends for a couple of months, I would say.

And he didn't have like mutuals or did he? On Instagram? No, there were no mutuals between us. So it kind of just started chatting back and forth, normal conversations. And then he asked what I was doing one day after work and asked if I wanted to go meet up and grab tacos. And I was like, sure, I love tacos. We can go do that.

So we met up at this small taco spot. And it went good. Conversation went good. I thought he was a good looking guy. He had a good personality. He was funny, charming. And then we hung out the following week. And it just kind of started off as just a hookup.

We weren't really expecting it to get into a serious relationship. They were just kind of like a casual thing for a while. So that was going on for a good couple months. And then it turns into a relationship because any girl that continuously does this, I'm kind of like, all right, like, what are we? Where do we stand type of situation? Let's put a little bit of a label on it. Let's see where we're going.

Right. I end up turning into a relationship and then taking me out on dates, started traveling together, starts buying me, nice gifts. He was very caring. Like if I have a bad day at work or if I was fighting with a family member, I would always vent to him and he was always there for me. He was always very supportive and always had my back. I just felt like I was being heard and supported.

Like if I was going through something or having a bad day, he would try to do things to make it better. You know, surprise me with flowers or bring me over ice cream or something like that. You know, he would always grow. grab the door for me. Like, he would never let me grab a door handle. Very thoughtful. We enjoyed being together.

We started, like, spending a lot more time together. And then I found out that I was pregnant. So this was, like, right in the beginning. So this is, like, six months in? Oh, my gosh. Yes. Okay. Yes.

I definitely wasn't excited just because it was so soon into this relationship, and it wasn't planned or anything like that. And I called to tell him while he was at work, I was like, we need to figure out what we're going to do about the situation. He was like, I'm not ready to have any kids right now. And I was like, you know, neither am I. And then I think not even a week later, I ended up having a miscarriage. Oh, I'm so sorry. That is the worst thing to go through.

I'm so sorry. I definitely was upset, but I do feel like that made our connection a little bit stronger to you after going through that. After the miscarriage happened, he was always checking up on me. He was very supportive asking if I was okay, if I needed anything. So I do feel like that kind of brought us closer together as well. I feel like a lot of the people listening to us are very busy women working, family responsibilities, everybody needing something from you. So it's very hard to get together with your friends. But as you know, having your community of friends is one of the best ways to defend against a dogfish. So I really want you to prioritize that. However, I have started to realize that when I have

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Start your free trial at Shopify.com slash dating detectives. Shopify.com slash dating detectives. So the first red flag came when we went on a trip with him and my friends. About six months in to the relationship. And that's when one of my girlfriends pulled me aside when we were all out that night. And she was like, look, I'm kind of getting a little bit of PTSD. He kind of reminds me of my ex-boyfriend by the way that he's starting to act. He was drinking and I guess certain things that he was saying, like the way that he was talking. And I think it was just like, she said to me, it felt like an intuition or like a gut feeling. And he wasn't with us.

He was downstairs grabbing us another drink. And when he walked up, he was like, what are you all talking about? And she kind of just started acting weird towards him getting an attitude. And he got upset because he just felt like her and I started acting weird. and that's just what he does. He just goes into defense mode every time he starts to drink and blames everybody but himself.

Like everyone else around him is the problem. Of course. Duh. Yeah, of course. So he storms away and her and I were like, well, what should we do? Because we all got an Airbnb together. We were six hours away from home.

So he stormed away from us. So we're walking behind him and he's yelling stuff at us. Like just talking, just talking, shit to us pretty much and we were just like okay let's Uber maybe because we had been drinking so we were like let's Uber to the Airbnb grab our stuff and then we'll go stay

at our friend's house because we already called her and she was like y'all just come stay with us so he disappears we don't even know where he went and he calls me like maybe 35 45 minutes after the fact and is crying

like you abandoned me in a city where I don't know anybody my phone died Oh, wow. So now it's your fault. Girl, he was a year younger than me, so he was 29 at the time. But still a grown-ass man. A grown-ass man, yeah, crying like a child.

So after that had happened, I guess he had gotten back to the Airbnb. So he was able to charge his phone and stuff like that. Like, he was able to find his way back. Then the next day, he called me again in tears. like, I'm going to go back home. And I did feel a little bit guilty. So I went back to the Airbnb and he was crying the whole entire time. Made me feel bad.

So I apologized and I explained the situation. But it still was my fault at the end. And it's so easy to believe them when they, like when they make us feel bad, we're like, yeah, I guess I could see how that's my fault. I'm really, and we're the ones apologizing. Yes, that's exactly. Yeah, that's pretty much how it went. And that was our last night.

there. So we all went to dinner and then we went out and my friend that, you know, didn't really care for her. And she didn't really speak to him the rest of the trip. And then the whole drive back, me and him got another argument. So he literally sat in the back of my car and she drove us home. And he did not say a word to us the whole way back home. And it was like a six hour drive. man and are you just feeling so guilty coming out of that honestly at this point was embarrassed like that morning I felt bad and then as the rest of the weekend proceeded and just the way he was acting just being dramatic and not getting along with my friends I'm like is this somebody I really want to be with because I want you to get along with my friends but after we didn't even really really talk that whole situation out it was just kind of like all right I'm sorry let's just move on from it there was really like no sit down communication from it I did kind of right off. And then we were good for a little bit. And then this was fast forward to Christmas time. So I invite him to come home with me for Christmas to meet my family because my mom had said that they wanted to meet him. So bring him home for Christmas. He was only here for like two days.

He was on his best behavior. Everything went well. But I don't think my family really had a good feeling about him. I mean, it went fine, but I feel like deep down, they just didn't have a good feeling about him, and they didn't say anything to me right then and there about it. Get back from that trip, and not even a week or two later, go and have dinner. You get back, he was staying with me at my apartment,

and lying in bed trying to find a movie to watch, and I put on this movie, and he immediately gets pissed off that I put this movie on, because the guy in the movie was good-looking, and he, like, yeah. Stop it. You stop it right now. Shut up. You're joking.

You're joking. I have not heard that. Swear to God, through the biggest fit about it. So then he ends up falling asleep, and I couldn't fall asleep. She was like, I'm just going to go sleep on my couch. I just can't sleep that good. So then I get up to use the bathroom, and he heard me and woke up and started throwing a fit because I wasn't sleeping in the bed.

I was sleeping on the couch. And I'm like, I can't sleep. Yeah, I was like, honestly, like, I can't sleep. I was like, maybe you should just go home. It was like three in the morning at this point. I was like, I don't really feel comfortable enough in my own apartment to sleep because you're getting mad about everything. And he gets up, starts screaming. And he throws me against my wall.

Like, by my neck. Yeah, by my neck, screaming in my face. And I immediately was like, you need to get out of my house. I'm about to call the cops. And he's like, I'm not fucking leaving. I'm about to bash your TV and fuck up your whole apartment. Talking about wrecking my apartment. Like literally, it's like 3 o'clock in the morning at this point.

So then I grab my phone and I'm calling the cops. And he's still standing right in front of me. And they were like, we're on the way. So he ends up leaving. And the cops get there. And they don't really do much besides go to the magistrate. And I'm like, it's 4 o'clock in the morning. Like, I'm going to drive.

all the way the magistrate and tell them all this for them to probably not even do anything. Well, at least they can write a report or something. Like, at least there's that. But yeah, it's not helpful in the moment. Yeah, well, I eventually go and do it. I do it the next morning. But the magistrate basically looked at me and was like, you don't have enough proof. Ew.

So, yeah, that happened. I feel like the next day is when it kind of hit me because this happened at like three o'clock in the morning. so I was pretty much half asleep. But the next day, having that situation, rethinking it, I was just kind of like, is this really the person that he says and acted the way that he was in the beginning? I feel like I was dating two different people because he would have a really sweet side and then he would have a really angry and aggressive side of him too. So after the incidents, things just started to become more toxic.

and that's when I decided that it was best that we break up. We were arguing back and forth on the phone and I was like, I just can't do this anymore. It's just getting too toxic. I think it's best that we go our separate ways. And he didn't really like that answer too much. So that's when he would start popping up at my house unexpected. And I had this little ring doorbell outside of my apartment.

So, well, it wasn't even like a ring doorbell. It was like, I don't know, it was part of the apartment complex. It was really loud. So he would come up and just stand there and hold a button in. Are you choking? Oh, my God. I swear. One night he was doing it every hour until 11 o'clock at night.

And I didn't even answer the door. I was like, I'm just like not even entertaining this right now. So then the next day I get up, I go to work, and I get home. And when I tell you this doorbell is so loud, I lived on the third floor. So I was literally going up the first set of stairs and I heard it. That's how loud it was. So I get there and he shoved something in there to where the doorbell had it pushed in to where it was going off all day. What a...

Oh, my God. So I called... This is when I called my apartment complex. I told him what was going on. I'm like, is there a way you can disable this? Because this has been going on for a few nights now. and it's to the point where he literally shoved something in there and I was going off all day. So they came and disconnected it.

From this point forward, we were in this on again, off again pattern. We would break up. He would harass me and then I would take him back. He would abuse me. Then I would break up with him again. And then he would harass me again. And it was just a never-ending cycle. I felt like he would not let me leave.

Like I felt like I was trapped. So if I didn't go back, it was threatening me. and I felt like I couldn't be like, hey, this isn't going to work. I want to break up with you. Like he just would not let me break up with him. So I really did feel like I was stuck and I was trapped. And at this point, too, I was in love with him, but I feel like I couldn't really be in a relationship with him just from the past experiences that have happened. Oh, that's so intense.

Because you're like, I'm so bonded to this person in any moments where you're like, I still want, like, I'm a human. I want connection. Yeah. Exactly. And when you love somebody, it is hard to leave a relationship, especially when we were kind of deep into it at this point, almost a year in. And fast forward, it was St. Patrick's Day weekend. I had met his family like a month prior to that. And then a couple weeks later, they do some big thing for St. Patrick's Day at a fishing pier. They do a parade, and then everybody goes to fishing pier afterwards. So I had worked that whole entire day, so they all were already drinking because there was the parade and stuff like that. And then they went to the pier. And he was texting me the whole time, like, oh, you need to come here when you get off.

I've been talking you up to everybody. All my family friends want to meet you. So I don't know, I just like was exhausted. So I really didn't feel like going. So I was like, I don't know. I'm kind of exhausted. I'm probably going to pass. I'm coming.

And he got really mad at me. And he was like, if you don't come, I'm going to break up. you. Oh, a beg pardon, fella? Yeah. I'm not keeping you. It's like, okay. So I was like, I'll come for a little bit. So I get there. I'm nice to everybody. I say hello. And he immediately gets mad at me within a minute of me being there because he thought I had an attitude. So. Hi Lord. So then he was like, let's go upstairs. It had two stories. So we walked up there and it was just him and I, and then he walks over and says, hey to somebody. So I'm just sitting there on my phone.

And then his friend walks up to me that I had met previous to this. So he comes up and he gives me a hug. And he was like, hey, Lauren, how are you? I was good to see you. So Jake saw that. And he was storming at me and headbutted me right in the face, right in the forehead. What? in front of this guy?

Well, he pretty much walked away after he said hey to me, and I guess he saw it from his side eye, so he was already somewhere on the other side of the pier, and he basically charged at me and headbutted me right in the floor. Head-budded you? That's... So are you... I'm, like, in shock.

Yeah, I basically, at this point, I was too stunned to speak, and I think once again, I went in a fight or flight, So I feel like when I get in that situation, I feel like I'm having like an out of body experience. I didn't even look around to see if anybody saw it. Because I feel like if they did, somebody would have said something by now and nobody said anything. And where we were, I was leaning on the ledge of the pier. And he put his arms around me and was like, I'm about to fucking push you off this pier. So then I started kind of walking away and he cuts me off and he tries elbow me in the mouth.

and I'm like, what are you doing? I'm just trying to leave. I don't understand what the issue is. So we walked down the stairs and his sister's friend was like, oh, where are you guys going? And he like screams. He's like, I'm about to fucking break up with this bitch. So I just look away and I'm like, oh, my God, this is just so embarrassing.

So we're like walking out from the pier and I just stop. And I'm like, where are you going? And he's like, I'm coming with you. And I'm like, you're not coming with me. You literally just headbutted me and then like, What do you mean you're coming with me? You want to die? Yeah, I'm just like, I don't really feel comfortable with you even getting in my car right now

or even being around you. I literally just want to go home. You attacked me. Yeah. So then he starts screaming at me. And these two girls and their parents are walking by and they were like, are you okay? And I'm like, honestly, no.

And they were like, do you want to walk you to your car? Because I guess they heard him and saw him screaming in my face. So he starts following us And I'm like honestly he's probably gonna follow us all the way to my car If you could maybe just try to get him away from me maybe That would be great And he's like he starts talking shit to them

Calling them names And they were like You need to go away You need to leave And he was like no I'm going with her So then he charges ahead of us And gets to my truck before I get there And he's blocking the driver's side door

So I couldn't even get in my car And I'm like, you literally need to go away. So then the father... Are you scared? Like, how scared are you in this moment? I was scared. I was shaking. I had a huge well on my forehead.

Like, I literally didn't know what to do. Like, I wanted to just get out of there at this point. Yeah. Oh, my God. And like, I already struggled with anxiety too. So my anxiety was through the roof. So I just feel like I, you know, I was having an out of body experience, truly.

And I just want to get out of there. And so I finally... was able to get in my car because him and the father started going at it. So they were like, we're going to call the cops. We'll handle this. We just want you to get out of here and go somewhere safe. So I did that. And as I'm pulling out, he starts pushing the father, getting in an altercation with him.

So then I go to my best friend's house. So her and her husband saw my huge wall on my forehead. So I'm explaining what was going on with that. And they were like, you need to leave him, like, getting two out of, you know, just two out of hand. It's toxic. he's not going to change. So then I went home for the rest of the weekend

and we actually didn't talk for like a day or two. And then I get back in town and he reaches back out. And he's like, I hate myself. I'm so sorry. I was really drunk. I barely remember any of this. Well, then he basically, I explained to him what had happened. He was like, I didn't headbut you.

And I was like, okay. You're right. I imagined it. Gaslight. Yeah. So then the gaslighting started. He basically said that the pier was shaking and that he bumped into my head. It was just an accident.

It was an accident. And I told him, I was like, I was sober. I experienced this so I know what happened. So I pretty much took him back after that. What made you decide, like, was it because of the apology? I think he was so good with his words and his apology. that I don't know, I just fell for it every time. And it's so hard to explain when you're in a relationship like this

why you keep going back. And I started doing therapy during all of this too because I wanted to know why I kept going back and I just, I didn't feel happy. I was starting to get depressed. I was just high anxiety all the time. And I felt like it was changing me as a person. It's just not who I am. So I wanted to go just to try to get some help.

And she basically broke it down for me too and told me it was a trauma bond. She pretty much was just like it's almost like an addiction, which I thought about it. And I was like, I don't have an addictive personality. But when it came to this, it feels like an addiction. She really broke it down for me. And it's crazy. It really is because at this point, I felt like I didn't want to be with him, but I couldn't leave him in a sense. Did you trust yourself more after therapy or what was your takeaway?

No. I mean, I did, but I still kept doing it. Yeah. And obviously being in therapy, she was trying to break it down for me and explain me why I need to leave this relationship and why I shouldn't be in it. But I would leave the therapy sessions and call him and still go hang out with him. So I knew the problem, but I still wasn't helping myself to get out of it. Were you little by little starting to apply what you?

learned in therapy and keeping it in the back of your head as you continue to see him? Yeah, and especially every time we would get in an argument or something, that's when I would kind of start to like be like, oh, that makes sense, like what I learned in therapy. Yes, and that's when I was trying to tell him to. I was just like, you know, this is toxic. I think we just need to go our separate ways. I'm not happy anymore. The way that he was acting was starting to scare me.

and then that's when he would just constantly call me. And I blocked him, so he downloaded an app where you can just like make up different phone numbers. And he would use the phone. App, you guys. Someone can put in your mom's phone number and it will ring through to your phone as if your mom is calling you.

They can put any number they want and you'll think that it's someone you know. You can literally make up your own phone number, which I didn't even know these even existed, honestly. So he would, start doing that at like 8 o'clock in the morning and it would happen by the hour to like 10 o'clock at night. So every time we call, I would block that number and then a different number would come through. I would between 100 and 200 miss calls a day. Oh my God. That's a lot. Well, that's harassment

now. Yeah. I guess can you prove that it's him? Right, because it's a bunch of different phone numbers. And then he would make up different Instagram accounts because obviously I blocked him on all social media. So he was sending me messages like, I'm going to contact your friends and family. And then you're like, no, don't do that. Okay, fine. I'll talk to you. That's what he's wanting. Exactly. Exactly. So that's when I feel like that's what always would kind of pull me back into because at this point, too, I wasn't telling anybody that I was communicating with him or seeing him again. Yes. So I feel like he was trying to scare me by threatening me and being like, oh, I'm going to reach out and tell your friends and family that you're seeing me again. And we're hanging.

hanging out again. How he put it, that he was in telling him everything that I was doing, I guess, to try to pin my family against me or make my family mad at me. That would put me in a panic, so I would start talking to him again. And then I think this was like May or June. And he kept calling and calling. And my parents owned a business. And he knew the business that they don't. No stop. Yeah. So. I'm working while he's calling me and calling me and I obviously don't answer. And then my dad calls me

and he's like, what is going on between you two? Mind you, they didn't really know any of the stuff that was going on. I didn't tell them any of this. But I feel like he was so good at manipulating that I was scared that he was going to manipulate them or tell them some story to try to pin them against me. And I was like, I think it's just time to say my truth.

And also I just really needed the support I really think I was ready to get out of that relationship, but I needed help because I obviously couldn't do it on my own. So I broke down and told him everything that was going on. And my parents were like, you need to come home and we need to file a restraining order. And this just needs to be done. So I got a restraining order on him. And was that process pretty straightforward? Well, yeah.

So I went through like hotline and they helped me get the restraining order and supported me through the way and stuff like that. So the judge granted the protective order for a year. And then I ended up while I was still commuting up there for work, I would get Airbnb or get a hotel or something. So a couple months into doing that commute, that's when he started reaching back out to me again. Like illegally? Yeah. And I didn't do anything about it. How long was your restraining order for?

A year. And how long into it? Did he start reaching out? Like, not even two to three months. And McKenzie, you know more about this. Like, it's true that, so what? If you engage, like if Lauren responds, does that hurt your case if you, you know,

bring to their attention that he's breaking breaking this restraining order? If you respond and you start re-engaging, they're going to say, listen, if you're going to talk to him anyways, why is there a restraining order? Unless you're saying something like, stay away from me. I'm calling the cops. Don't engage because then it just looks like, why? But I imagine you're, like you said, there were mixed emotions around this.

Yeah. We went a good couple months, like no contact. So obviously, that's when I kind of started to miss him a little bit. Yes. So I started engaging in the conversation when he called me. I answered. I picked up, we chatted, and we started seeing each other when I was commuting up there for work. And what was he like when you saw him again for the first time?

Oh, it's fine. Back to how it was when we first started dating. It just like kind of brought me back a little bit. Yeah, and also it's like maybe you solved it. Like maybe this was what he needed in order to be what you needed. Right. I totally get it. And I also didn't even bring up the you engaging with him to share.

anything other than that it's like hard for you moving forward if he does something again now. Yeah. It just is like a top system. And I was also in the back of my head too because I'm like, okay. And I was scared. I was like, am I going to get in trouble if I'm engaging with him when there's a protective order? What if he does something more serious?

And I do need to like reach out to the cops. They probably won't do anything because I started engaging with him again with a protective order in place. I think that's one of the things that our system continuously does. doesn't catch up to is the cycle. It's like they think, oh, he hit you one time, leave. And if you don't, then what's wrong with you? Right.

It's so much more complicated than that. Yes. Right. Right. So he's bad. And you're probably already thinking like, what's wrong with me? Oh, I was. I was.

I literally was like, what is wrong with me? After I would hang out with him and I was getting help to try to get out of this, I would question myself and be like, what am I doing? but I also felt like I couldn't control myself at the same time to leave it. It really did kind of feel like it was like an out-of-body experience. It's not like we saw each other very often because it was just when I was up there commuting for work. So everything was fine. We got along for a good while.

Because he put on a show probably. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Putting on a show. But I fell for it. And I ended up moving back, got a new apartment. He knew where the new apartment was because he helped me move in. He helped me build all my furniture, help me set up my apartment.

So the first like month or two in the living back up there again, like I said, everything was fine. And then that's when he would start getting frustrated because I wouldn't post him on social media. Okay. Yeah. Would you probably, had you told anyone you were back together yet? No. Nobody knew. Yeah.

Nobody knew. And I think that's what was making him mad, too, that I didn't tell my family. My friends didn't know. So every time we hung out, I didn't want to bring him around my friends because I was being secretive about it. So I think that was just making him mad. So the fighting was happening again. And I was just, I was exhausted.

I wasn't happy at all. I was scared. I wasn't sleeping good. It was hard for me to get up and go to work and act like I'm those. happy, bubbly person. And before I officially ended things, I was kind of ignoring him for days prior before the big breakup. And I didn't even want to do it in person because I was scared of him at this point. So I did it through a text. He just wrote in this long text message. And I was just like, I'm not happy with you. I'm not in love with you anymore. I was really honest with him. And he still didn't

take no for an answer. That's when he was like, no one's ever going to love you the way that I love you. No one's ever going to put up with you the way that I put up with you. Basically trying to convince me he's the only one. So then blocked him. And that's when the different phone numbers, the calling nonstop. And then I was getting text messages like, I'm sitting in your apartment complex parking lot. I'm going to sit out here all night.

Yeah. I'm waiting for this. And then he thought that I was just like seeing other men. So he was like, any guy that I see come out there, I'm going to. beat their ass like just like starts like sending threats so then I went home that weekend I just needed to get away and he was still blocked but I was still continuously getting phone calls and stuff and he had left me 30 something voicemails that were like two to three minutes long so I started listening to some of them and he was basically like I'm going to fucking murder you and your whole

entire family. Oh my God. Mm-hmm. And then another one, he was acting like he was talking to my dad, but he was leaving the voicemail on my phone. So he was like, I'm going to

fucking murder your daughter and face 25 years and I don't give a phone. And then left another voicemail. Basically just kept saying that he was going to murder me and my family. And then leading voicemail threatening to assault my dad. what did you do?

He is literally like he is saying like come get me here's the evidence like he is he didn't care yeah I feel like at this point he felt like he had that's when you know they crazy erratic yeah what did you do at this point I was just like I'm like I'm just done

and I was home so I let my mom listen to it and she was like when you go back up there in two days they didn't even want me going back at this point and I was like I have to work like I was just being stubborn and she was like you have got to go to the magistrate and show them this this is pure evidence now you guys know my stance on self-care equals self-love and that includes your daily body care

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date and stuff is. So I just took it upon myself because I didn't hear anything for a good while. So I looked it up and the charges got dropped because the court date had already happened a week prior. And me never contacted you? Me and my mom both never got letters to get subpoenaed to go. Are you serious? Yeah, so we started connecting the dots, and we were like, well, both of his brothers are cops in that area. So we were thinking that it's just weird that the two letters didn't go to two different addresses. Something just was not connecting. It was weird.

So we were considered no shows at court, and obviously when you don't show up, like, they just complete. completely dropped the charges. Do we know why you didn't get letters? Well, yeah, that down the road ends up getting investigated why that was happening. So at that point, my mom was just like, I'm over this. I just feel like he's kind of getting away with everything.

At this point, I feel like I was kind of getting let down. This was just getting exhausting. And I was like, I really do need to take action and do something about this because I don't want to end up dead or I don't want this to happen to. Yes, exactly. Another woman. So then my mom reaches out to the FBI in the area, and they wanted to start investigating it. So we had a meeting with them and told them everything, like, what was going on, how we never got letters and stuff like that.

So they started investigating the police department where his brothers were working at. Good. And they listened to all the voicemails. And so this is like a year-long investigation. So this is going on for a year, almost a year. And he's still harassing you this whole time? So he would stop for a little bit and then it would start up again. And then he would show up to my apartment.

He would try to break into my apartment. Oh, my God, Lauren. Mm-hmm. I tried breaking into my apartment. He destructed my truck. keyed it. So that was a whole list of stuff that they were investigating. And then what are you doing day to day? Sorry, I just am like, are you going to work? Honestly, I was living my normal life and I was still dealing with this on the side. Like, I was so stressed out, but like I still showed up to work. I did my

job. I mean, you're a baddie. You must have been like just destroyed inside and still showing up every day. Yeah, I was. And right after that had happened while he was blocked, I got my, I grabbed my iPad because people told me when somebody text you and they're blocked, it comes from their actual number still and goes through to your iPad. So he was texting from his actual number, trying to text my phone, but I wasn't getting it on my phone. I was going through to my iPad. So now I actually had actual real evidence coming from his cell phone. So this was more murder threats. he was threatening to slit my throat and watching me bleed out. He was going to murder any guy that he saw me with.

He was going to murder the guy that I marry. And then he was sending videos driving to my apartment complex and being in my apartment complex just sitting there. This is horrifying. Yeah. So I was like, okay, now I have legit evidence coming from his actual cell phone number. So basically the FBI has been investigating for, September, October, it'll be exactly a year that they've been investigating this.

So through all the harassment and stuff, once they've been involved, I would tell them about it, but they couldn't get him arrested right then and there because they didn't have all the investigation finished. And then when I was getting the death threats, I had told them that and they said that I needed to go to the magistrate and take out charges because that would automatically be a felony and he would get picked up. immediately. So I went to the magistrate again, and I showed them all of this, had them re-listened to the voice, and I was like, I'm feared for my life right now. Is there something that you can do? I'm scared he is going to actually do something.

It's just getting worse. So this magistrate was like, this is a felony. We are going to send a warrant out immediately, go to the police department and file charges. So I did all that, and it took three to four days for him to still get picked up. still getting phone calls. So then I reached out to the federal agency and I was like, is there anything that you can do to help him get picked up? I'm still getting harassed.

And they said that he was going to get picked up. So we thought he was hiding because they couldn't get a hold of him anywhere. That's so crazy. Yeah. And that weekend, I was going up to Boston with some girlfriends for a girl's trip. And I was still getting phone calls from different phone numbers while I was. was there. And so, mm-hmm. And at this point, the federal agency, he would call me all the time. If there was any new evidence or anything like that. And so I told him, I was like, look, I'm out of

town, but I will be home in a few days. I'm honestly scared if he's still out roaming the streets. If you guys can get him into custody, I would greatly appreciate it. Yeah, please. Please. For the love of God. Because it's like, she's threatened to murder you have so many times. It's not only like, this can wait the weekend. Right. Why do they, why does this have to. Oh. It's like a literal evidence coming from his actual cell phone number at this point. So he was like, I will get in touch with a deputy that I know in the town that he lives in. So he got in touch with him and like within 45 minutes he was picked up and taken into custody.

Thank God. Praise. So I was just like, thank God. I can enjoy the rest of my trip and I can go home and know that I will be safe. So a month later, I was on vacation with my family and he was still in custody and I get a random text from a phone number that says Jake's grandmother is dying. If you can please take it upon yourself to forgive him, that would be great if you can contact his lawyer or his sister. And I didn't answer. I was like, I'm not answering this.

Like, he obviously got somebody to text me and send me that. Mind you, his grandmother was not dying and she didn't pass away. This guy's got some damn nerve. I'm going to tell you that right now. Seriously. Oh, my God. And then reached out to FBI agent, told him that. So he had about two to three bond hearings, and they all got denied.

and he tried to contact me while he was in jail. He tried to call me. And I found out because it literally said this inmate, so-and-so was calling from this facility. And I guess it left the voicemail because it went straight to voicemail when he tried to call. And he left his name and everything. So he's been in jail since last November.

So I got a phone call from. the feds a couple months ago saying that they are now charging him with witness tampering charge. And you could face up to 20 years for doing that? Because he tried to get me arrested. And I had asked them, do you know what he tried to get me arrested for? And they said that they couldn't go into detail about it yet. And then about a month later, he had a court date to plead guilty because he ended up accepting the plea deal for the witness tampering charge.

And then right after he pled guilty, I saw a bunch of articles get released. And that's how I found out what he was trying to get me arrested for was for DUI charges on two different occasions. That's when I realized that he probably called one of his cop brothers to try and set me up. I guess for a DUI, but I don't really drink and I don't drink and drive. So I don't know how he thought that else can happen. Yeah, did he want them to like just create this situation or? I'm assuming because he gave them my address.

He knew my license plate number. He gave them the make and model of my car. and they denied it. They were like, we're not doing this. And then a month later, he tried to go through another family member and do it again. And they denied it.

And when they're trying to arrest you, is it like the brother, like his sibling directly? Well, I was trying to figure out, I'm like, are you just going to like knock on my door and like you can't,

I mean, you can't really arrest me for DY unless I'm in the act? So I'm like, how did you think that that was going to work? Weird. So weird. So it wasn't forever.

everything. It was just for that. Yeah. And that's what I said. I was like, the threats are more important. Like, I would think that's more time in jail than tampering with a witness. And they were like, well, we're going to play all the voicemails and read all the text messages at the hearing. And he's going to plead guilty saying the reason why that he did tamper with a witness was because of all the threats. The threats led up to this is what they were saying. Okay. So hopefully it factors into the sentence.

Yes, yes. And then the sentencing is November 19th. So. Coming up. Yeah. So that will decide for how many years. All of them. Give him all of them. He cannot be trusted in public. No, like at all. No. But yeah, after seeing all those, I mean, there was like 10 articles about this on Google. I was like, why is this even online? And I think it just kind of. threw me for a loop too because that's how I found out what I was getting arrested for. It was a DUI and I found out through. You're like, what? I found out through an article, but like the attorneys didn't tell me. Are you nervous about what will happen to him? Like, does he scare you at all?

Yes, he definitely does scare me and I am anxious because I do have to go to the sentencing. I have to read the victim impact letter, which I'm nervous about. it, but I also want him and his family and, you know, everybody in that courtroom to hear what he put me through and what I dealt with over the years. I'm praying that he gets the maximum sentencing because I feel like whenever he does get released, I'm already planning to move somewhere super far away and change my phone number, which I should have done, because everyone's told me to, like, change my phone number and stuff too. But again, like I said, that's a lot of work. You have a business. You have a life. Like, it's so unfair how much you have to do. Yeah. Because of this person. Exactly. And I've already moved twice. And then I moved home for good this past April. But I still am commuting to a different state because I do run a business up there too. So I where I started my business, where my home was, where I did feel comfortable once before. I had to pass. I. I had to be a business. I was. I was where I had to pay. And I. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was where I did.

all that up and completely change my life because of the situation, just so heal and make me feel at ease and feel safe. And since this past February, I've been seeing a trauma therapist because I got diagnosed with PTSD. I had severe trauma. I was having nightmares and stuff like that. So I worked with her weekly for months. And actually after doing the work and stuff, I actually sat back and I'm like, I can't believe I put up with this and dealt with this for so many years. So what do you remember about the person you were before all this that's changed? I don't know. I feel like when I was in that relationship, I was a complete out-of-body experience.

I don't feel like I even knew who I was. And I'm still healing to this day. It's not easy. I haven't dated since. I'm scared to date, honestly, because trying to. trust like somebody again it's it's hard so i'm so sorry you had to go through all of that i just i hope that if other people meet him or someone like him stories like yours can help them see that eventually there is hope but we're so afraid that we're not going to find anything else ever i think

yeah yeah yeah and there is a whole another life outside of something like this i feel like if i can do it anybody can do it. Hmm. So. Well, I was going to ask you, yeah, is there anything we didn't ask or anything that you wanted to make sure you got to share from coming on this show? I did write down, because it did ask what advice you would give other people. So I did say, always trust your gut, don't ignore the red flags, even when you do love somebody.

You don't have to wait until things become dangerous to leave. Huge. And if you've gone back to somebody who hurt you, don't shame yourself for it. I've done it too. And I have learned that healing isn't about blaming yourself. It's about understanding what happened, getting the support, and finding the strength to choose yourself. And also, we learned the most from making those mistakes. So give yourself grace.

We're not built to handle this. Like, you're not supposed to come into the world knowing how to navigate a relationship like this. Exactly. And it is hard for outsiders looking in to. understand it too because I mean a lot of my friends have never been in situations like this so they thought it was super easy for me to just leave and move on until you're in it and I'm gone through it I don't think someone from the outside looking in will ever understand it so they won't they absolutely won't and the first half of this I was really upset and I did feel bad but the more time I've had to

heal and do the inner work and like working with a therapist I'm like I shouldn't feel guilty for this. This is not at all. Yeah, he put me through this and he needs to pay for the consequences. So. Oh, I don't want. There's no reason we should feel ashamed for something somebody else does to us. So that's a lot. I definitely want to talk about trauma bonding. Obviously, it's come up before. Absolutely. Let's start there. Because if if people want to listen to the beginning of this debrief and then sign off because they're done with the story, they need to get. they need to come away with this. So trauma bonding is misunderstood. And I think a lot of people assume that it's just when you go through something bad together,

you're bonded and that's a trauma bond. But that's not what that actually means. It's really about the attachment that a victim feels towards their abuser. So this is exactly what she went through. Obviously, she shared that her therapist helped her see that. But it's so much more complicated. than just like, oh, yeah, like we're bonded because of this shared experience. It's like, right.

It's really deep. There's a good article. It's on Recovery Unplugged. I'm just going to read a piece of it about the impact. Okay. So it says this emotional oscillation fosters confusion, dependency, and misguided hope in victims and keeps them emotionally tethered to their abusers, even at the risk of ongoing harm and escalatory behavior.

And then, yes, this is often. often a pattern in romantic relationships, but it can develop in any dynamic where one person has significant control or power over another. So parent-child relationship, work environments, friendships. It's that abuser manipulating the victim's emotions, creating a toxic dependency that is difficult, seemingly in the moment, impossible to break.

So when you look at it like that, I mean, I think his power came from making her feel dependent on him, offering her everything she wanted in the, the moments that were good. And then also being scary. Like a lot of this dynamic was her fearing for what he would do if she didn't appease him. And that makes her lose control in a relationship. Like even with the order of protection, when they contact you, if you don't respond,

you're like, oh, my God, then I'm going to make them mad. And then what are they going to do? So it's the fear of what's going to happen if you don't give them what they want. Like that there's a lot. It also just makes you break down. And it's so severe that it becomes hard to leave, even in the moments of when you know what's going on. Like you're just so attached.

It obviously messes with your brain, like the dopamine it gives you. And then the cycle of, you talked about it where it's like that abuser is the person that gives you relief. Like that messes with your brain. Yes. And even when her therapist and her family and friends were able to help her wrap her head around the fact that there was a word. for this. This is not because she is weak or stupid. It's because she's trauma bonded and being

psychologically manipulated. She still didn't leave right away because it's not that easy. No. And it isn't for anybody. I liked the phrase in that article, the misguided hope that you get when you're in a relationship with them. And I think we see this with everybody where they, a lot of, we've had a lot of guess that I feel like Lauren did this a little bit too. You get so clouded that you just kind of downplay the severity of what happened to you. And I'm not saying that as a criticism. It's a response to that trauma. Like you rationalize in the moment, especially what's happening so that you don't have to accept it.

And it's not a conscious thing. It's a very human thing. So without therapy and without her mom really intervening, I completely understand why it became the cycle. And also, oh yeah, when she said it felt like an addiction. Yes. That was huge. That makes sense.

And it totally tracks because you want to stop the drugs. You know they're not good for you. You want to stop drinking. You know it's not good for you. But it's the one thing that also gives you comfort or it's the one thing that, you know, you just can't stop. That's what addiction is. And so it's the same thing with relationships.

And I guess we don't think about it like that enough. Well, also I feel like if you're comparing this to something like a drug addiction, and people don't even know why they're doing it. Like they don't even have the understanding that like, oh, this is going to make me feel good. It's almost just like all of a sudden your body is autopilot and you're out of control. And she kept saying it was out of body.

Like I do see how your body just starts moving in ways that are immediately protective, like trying to make you feel a little better and safer in that moment. And your brain's not part of it. Like your brain's kind of checked out. Yeah. Yep. Oh, man. It's crazy, right?

And then how do we treat people going through that? We blame the drug addict for being a drug addict. And obviously, they can be held accountable for the behavior, but we can still recognize that it's really hard to break that cycle. How did you feel about the stuff with her going to the magistrate and her mom going to the FBI? Oh, I got things to say about that. Y'all, let me tell you, I have been told my entire. life you are too loud you are too much okay but i always tell everybody do you want to know they're like

oh you you always just get what you want you always got to get you know why i get what i want because i ask for it over and over because i'm too much because i'm loud and i'm too much and so when she says well we're at the local police and they're not helping let's go to the fbi i the squeaky wheel gets the grease baby you keep saying it over and over and over just like our guests that keep coming on and sharing their stories over and over and what do we hear from our listeners they say say, oh my gosh, I keep hearing this. I didn't realize this was a thing. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

You keep talking about it. You use your voice as a weapon. You say it again and again and again. And eventually someone going to get tired of hearing it and they're going to do something about it just to get you off their back. But the squeaky wheel gives the grease done. It's so much easier to help somebody else and it is to help ourselves. I think about the source.

I like love helping my friends with their resumes. But whenever I sit down to do my own resume, I'm like, I don't have any experience and I don't even know how to speak English. Like I can't. You know what I mean? I don't know what I'm going on. So I think it's like I think it's important to talk about how her mom was the one that did this because obviously as a mom, she's going to do anything for her kid. She doesn't care if she's dramatic.

I think it would be a lot harder for us to reach out to authorities in that capacity for ourselves. And I hope this story kind of makes us remember that we can do that for ourselves because not everybody has a support system that can do it for them. And I'm so glad she did. And I'm so lucky that, yeah, I have a support system that I think would jump in for me. we can choose ourselves, like she said, and it's hard. It's hard. It's definitely hard. It's not dramatic.

Not you should do it. I was, yeah, I didn't know. I guess I didn't like, I guess every state is different. Like you don't know what every county is different. What your police officer is going to tell you to do when you call them to the scene and they don't have proof. So with the, yeah, so every jurisdiction is different, right? So they have rules like, oh, if whoever has a bruise, the other one goes. goes to jail or whoever.

It's different. And so the cops aren't, all they know is procedure. This is not a situation where they can investigate and do everything right then when they come. So the procedure is to create peace in that moment. And however their jurisdiction has governed that that be done, they're there to follow the procedure, period. And so then you determine going forward, okay, based on this evidence, now we're moving

forward with how we investigate it. But in the moment, police don't know, they're just there to follow a procedure. Yeah, and that makes sense. And then when you call the cops, like, oh, another, oh, got a 1018 over on this block. Like, you know what I mean? We're going to take care of this.

And that's all they know is running these calls. And the investigation doesn't happen until later. And so when you call the cops, it's easy to feel like, oh, maybe this is not necessary or whatever, but you have to make the report always. always make the report because every report is another piece of evidence you're adding. It's another piece of proof. I feel like my takeaway from that is it's very easy to feel disheartened when you make a call

to authorities and it doesn't feel like it's taken seriously. And I'm going to try to remember that sometimes procedure doesn't allow for that. Whether that's right or wrong, it's like not what I'm talking about. It's more just that that doesn't mean you have to give up completely. it doesn't mean that your case isn't serious. It just might mean you have to keep pushing and I wish you didn't have to. Yeah.

And sometimes you just have to remember this is procedure right now but then you use your voice to get somebody to actually investigate and sometimes that means calling the FBI even if you're being dramatic, it doesn't matter. Like you, your situation...

You know what he's being dramatic? The guy who head butts her in a bar. What a fucking psycho. Sorry. Well, this guy is going to jail for a long time. Because she used her voice and I think that that's so important. Don't ever feel like you are not,

like your story or situation is not important enough to be heard or investigated. We're also forgetting about the part where his brothers worked in the police system. Yeah, that too. And what do you do? If someone is a police officer, automatically this is a person who was honorable and respected within their police community.

So to go against one of them, most, most police agencies are, it's like a good old boy society. It's like these are our people, like we back them up. Chances are nobody's going to go against another cop. So you have to go to a different agency. There has to be a better system in place to hold like it's like a checks and balances thing. It's like you can't just be blindly supportive and faithful, especially when there's people involved that are tied to the case. This is so hard. So scary.

Oh, man. That's just terrible. Well, we will, to the extent that she's comfortable sharing with us and comfortable sharing with you, keep you updated on what happens when he's sentenced in November. To all the years. Yeah, all the years. We definitely try to give updates when we get them on Patreon. It's $5 a month, $9 a month for everything plus ad-free listening. and as we always say, if you have a story, we are so here for you,

whether it's a long story or a short story or one that you're like, oh, I don't know if this even really counts. Like, if you need to share it, we want to offer you that platform, even if it's read on a Patreon episode, investigate at the datingdetectivespodcast.com is our email, and it's open for you always. Thank you so much for listening and for your support. And any kind words you send over,

we'll make sure that Lauren gets them. So thank you. Thank you guys so much for being so supportive and listening. She said some good things at the end. You know, choose yourself, trust yourself. Yep. And as always. And if she can get through it, yeah, you can too.

But as always, trust your femme tuition. Trust your femtuition.